I love the fact that any non-natural system artificially created for a purpose by a person or group of persons can be any more factual than any other creation, such as Harry Potter...
And that's the problem, as you say the accounts are frozen - the judge hasnt allowed access to them, and the DoJ hasn't granted an exception to their application.
If an exception was granted in the first place then we wouldn't be commenting in this story at all...
I'm in two minds, because the rumours highlighted in the summary specifically seem orientated toward creating panic and unrest within a large population - how do you deal with that while maintaining free speech?
The line should be drawn at illegal practices, in my opinion - however, this particular case has nothing to do with illegal practices.
Motorola are doing something completely legal in both the US and Germany, they are just doing it in German jurisdiction. The US Judge is threatening Motorola in US jurisdiction for something that isn't illegal in either place.
The US Judge is trying to trump the authority of the German judge in his own jurisdiction. Thats overstepping the mark.
As I pointed out above in reply to a similar comment - why the fuck are the SCADA manufacturers relying on the general public support policy if their product is so damn important?
Why don't they have a private support contract with Microsoft?
Seems someone did fuck up here, and it looks like its got nothing to do with the OS...
Good for you, in a recent job I had a PHP codebase developed inhouse by others that was stuck on a very old version of PHP and MySQL - upgrading the codebase was out of the question (it would have taken a rewrite), but the fact that Gentoo explicitly removed the version of PHP on upgrade I needed meant that I could not actually keep the OS up to date using the OS providers methods.
The older PHP wouldn't compile against the newer system libs either, so I was stuck with what I had.
The application suite was infact being replaced by a new system also being developed inhouse, but of course that takes time - and during that time I was stuck with an out of date install.
Yup, shit like that does exist all over the place.
Why do these manufacturers not have explicit, individual support contracts from Microsoft to suit their own longterm requirements then?
Relying on the general public support policy of any OS maker or community for this sort of usage is just fucking ridiculous and proves that, as I have said elsewhere, the problem lies with the SCADA manufacturers rather than the OS.
There is a real risk with going down that route however, and that is that unless you can get your changes merged into the main branch (far from guaranteed), you are now running a forked version of Linux - and the more you make changes, the more distant the fork gets and the less the main branch followers want to help you.
So you are only compounding the issue - the money you spent on consulting for the fix should have gone toward moving the codebase to a newer version instead.
No, it isn't hard to believe, but should MS be required to continually support them on a platform that is currently two major versions out of date, soon to be three?
Try reporting a bug with the Linux 2.0 kernel or glibc 2.0, you will be told to upgrade to the latest version. And while the upgrade may be free, the time and effort associated with moving an entire codebase to a modern version isn't.
Which is why you need to heed warnings about deadlines well in advance - these SCADA issues wouldn't have been a problem if planning had started two years ago rather than now.
This deadline has been known about for the past five years - if you can't resolve upgrade issues in seven years, then you are the problem, not the maker of the software being EOLed.
This isn't happening overnight, you had your chance to do something about it. You might not agree with the EOL, but that's beside the point.
Also meant to say, the issue you are thinking of was the "Apple claims ownership of anything produced with the iBook builder", not what Im talking about.
So if its an issue with GCC or glibc, then its good to know theres a lot of regression testing going on...
It would be terrible if the GlibC guys introduced another bug such as this one https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=638477 (read the entire thread for it to make sense - a change in memcpy had major repercussions).
One of the things that might bury Apple is the "you cant have your ebook priced cheaper anywhere else" requirement - with the price including Apples cut.
Tax rules and tax law are the epitome of the "hard and boring functionality that no one wants to write, because its not cool, not visible, and definitely not shiny" that plague all projects, both open source and closed source. Tax rules and laws also have nuances that really need to be understood in order to translate correctly into code - again, something really boring and hard that needs to be done.
Thats great. When have they launched a person into space? They haven't, so my point stands.
Just because their stacks work as intended does not automatically give them the award of being able to say "we launched a person into orbit" to put on their resume, because they haven't - anything can happen between now and their first human passenger landing, up to and including a fatal accident which causes investors to panic and run for the hills.
So please, don't think that just because they have achieved "X" they should be trumpeted for "Y", because they shouldn't - this is very much one of those situations where "Y" needs to be achieved on its own merits and not extrapolated from past successes.
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I love the fact that any non-natural system artificially created for a purpose by a person or group of persons can be any more factual than any other creation, such as Harry Potter...
And that's the problem, as you say the accounts are frozen - the judge hasnt allowed access to them, and the DoJ hasn't granted an exception to their application.
If an exception was granted in the first place then we wouldn't be commenting in this story at all...
The problem is no one is paying the bill racking up at the moment, so who gets to pay for the added extra cost of implementing your suggestion?
I'm in two minds, because the rumours highlighted in the summary specifically seem orientated toward creating panic and unrest within a large population - how do you deal with that while maintaining free speech?
You don't have any rights to the uncompiled code, and you shouldn't have any rights to it either. Live with it.
It looks like some SCADA fanboi somewhere got some modpoints and modded me down on all my SCADA-negative comments....
Touched a nerve, did I?
The line should be drawn at illegal practices, in my opinion - however, this particular case has nothing to do with illegal practices.
Motorola are doing something completely legal in both the US and Germany, they are just doing it in German jurisdiction. The US Judge is threatening Motorola in US jurisdiction for something that isn't illegal in either place.
The US Judge is trying to trump the authority of the German judge in his own jurisdiction. Thats overstepping the mark.
As I pointed out above in reply to a similar comment - why the fuck are the SCADA manufacturers relying on the general public support policy if their product is so damn important?
Why don't they have a private support contract with Microsoft?
Seems someone did fuck up here, and it looks like its got nothing to do with the OS...
Good for you, in a recent job I had a PHP codebase developed inhouse by others that was stuck on a very old version of PHP and MySQL - upgrading the codebase was out of the question (it would have taken a rewrite), but the fact that Gentoo explicitly removed the version of PHP on upgrade I needed meant that I could not actually keep the OS up to date using the OS providers methods.
The older PHP wouldn't compile against the newer system libs either, so I was stuck with what I had.
The application suite was infact being replaced by a new system also being developed inhouse, but of course that takes time - and during that time I was stuck with an out of date install.
Yup, shit like that does exist all over the place.
Why do these manufacturers not have explicit, individual support contracts from Microsoft to suit their own longterm requirements then?
Relying on the general public support policy of any OS maker or community for this sort of usage is just fucking ridiculous and proves that, as I have said elsewhere, the problem lies with the SCADA manufacturers rather than the OS.
The judge has definitely overstepped the mark here, in my opinion.
Motorola is seeking a limitation in another jurisdiction, under different rules, not the local jurisdiction under the local rules.
By seeking to prevent Motorola from partaking in legal action in another jurisdiction, the judge has certainly limited Motorolas freedom to operate.
There is a real risk with going down that route however, and that is that unless you can get your changes merged into the main branch (far from guaranteed), you are now running a forked version of Linux - and the more you make changes, the more distant the fork gets and the less the main branch followers want to help you.
So you are only compounding the issue - the money you spent on consulting for the fix should have gone toward moving the codebase to a newer version instead.
No, it isn't hard to believe, but should MS be required to continually support them on a platform that is currently two major versions out of date, soon to be three?
And they will have had four years of support, so what's the problem?
My comment is based on experience, not supposition.
Try reporting a bug with the Linux 2.0 kernel or glibc 2.0, you will be told to upgrade to the latest version. And while the upgrade may be free, the time and effort associated with moving an entire codebase to a modern version isn't.
Which is why you need to heed warnings about deadlines well in advance - these SCADA issues wouldn't have been a problem if planning had started two years ago rather than now.
This deadline has been known about for the past five years - if you can't resolve upgrade issues in seven years, then you are the problem, not the maker of the software being EOLed.
This isn't happening overnight, you had your chance to do something about it. You might not agree with the EOL, but that's beside the point.
Also meant to say, the issue you are thinking of was the "Apple claims ownership of anything produced with the iBook builder", not what Im talking about.
Nope, I heard about the above issue when iBooks was first released, well before the builder software was publicly released for general usage.
So if its an issue with GCC or glibc, then its good to know theres a lot of regression testing going on...
It would be terrible if the GlibC guys introduced another bug such as this one https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=638477 (read the entire thread for it to make sense - a change in memcpy had major repercussions).
Why should the DoJ care which way the market goes on formats? Thats a different issue, not one covered here.
One of the things that might bury Apple is the "you cant have your ebook priced cheaper anywhere else" requirement - with the price including Apples cut.
A patch might have been out within 48 hours, but how long until it made its way into every distributions patch repository?
Tax rules and tax law are the epitome of the "hard and boring functionality that no one wants to write, because its not cool, not visible, and definitely not shiny" that plague all projects, both open source and closed source. Tax rules and laws also have nuances that really need to be understood in order to translate correctly into code - again, something really boring and hard that needs to be done.
Thats great. When have they launched a person into space? They haven't, so my point stands.
Just because their stacks work as intended does not automatically give them the award of being able to say "we launched a person into orbit" to put on their resume, because they haven't - anything can happen between now and their first human passenger landing, up to and including a fatal accident which causes investors to panic and run for the hills.
So please, don't think that just because they have achieved "X" they should be trumpeted for "Y", because they shouldn't - this is very much one of those situations where "Y" needs to be achieved on its own merits and not extrapolated from past successes.