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Ask Slashdot: Open Source Tax Software?
An anonymous reader writes "I finally started looking at my taxes and instead of handing over my personal information and money to TurboTax I was wondering if there were any recommendations for freely available/open source tax software? Ideally, the data would be stored in a portable, open format. I wouldn't really need a GUI, but something that filled out PDF forms would be nice." It's a question that just won't go away. Open source solution or not, if you're a U.S. taxpayer, the deadline for filing is nearly to hand.
Seriously, this is the kind of product that is done with help of lawyers and accountants, because it is really complicated. Specialists rarely work for free with open source products. You really don't want some 18 year open source coder's "product" (who just filed his taxes for the first time and quickly coded up something) for this. They just don't understand all the different tax laws and practices, especially in some corner cases. And it is YOU who will be responsible when the program gets it wrong. Using open source instead of a program made by professionals with the help of accountants and tax professionals is incredibly stupid!
You make a good point, but if an open source organization were to offer malpractice insurance, lawyers could offer their services on an open source basis as well. They would be no different than any other Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) including documentation authors.
Here's one: https://sourceforge.net/projects/opentaxsolver/
Having said that, I have found that paying a professional has always been a worthwhile investment. I have a masters degree in mathematics, so it's not a question of the calculations, but my accountant knows things about tax law that I don't, and keeps me from getting audited while getting me the best refunds that the law allows.
Apache guy, Open Source enthusiast, runner
There are lots of programmers out there with diverse interests, but tax law seems like the kind of thing you need to pay people to deal with, and as far as I know no one has ponied up the cash.
At the very least, you need to pay people to confirm everything you've done is correct. I don't know where liability would fall if your taxes were incorrect due to a bug in libretax or whatever, but I don't think I'd want to find out ;p
Rumor has it if you just send in your tax documents without filling anything in they will calculate your taxes for you and give you many deductions you might not have thought you could do.
Be careful. While any such FOSS tools might be fully accurate, sometimes it's worth extra money to ge the gaurantees and backing from a TurboTax, H&R Block, etc. in case there are any inaccuracies. And you can export out yoyr return as a pdf for your records. Sometimes ideology is not as important as getting backing in case the IRS comes snooping. *shrug*
That most people that use open source are just cheap skates...
Hey guys, I need a new pacemaker. Rather than paying thousands of dollars for one, does anyone have an Arduino solution? Shouldn't be that hard.
http://home.mchsi.com/~taxcalculator/
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
So are you just a cheapskate or are you truly concerned about giving them your information?
I ask because if you go to the store and buy Turbo Tax, you don't have to give them your information and send it anyplace. That's what I do / have been doing for a long time. I'm paying them to guarantee me that they have interpreted the tax code properly, I'm totally fine with that.
I like some open source stuff, but I need a company to stand behind something that can royally screw me over if it's wrong.
I'm a CPA and I would recommend using taxact.com. While it's not open source, it is free for any income level (for federal filing) and user friendly (if you can ignore the upselling of the deluxe version along the way). Given the frequency with which the tax law changes, it's doubtful a FOSS solution will emerge in this segment.
The current US tax system has no redeeming value. It is currently used to reward friends and as a jobs program for tax experts. Maybe if the system were designed for a 21st century economy there would be no need for April 15th and tax software.
I found FreeFileFillableForms.com to be very helpful free efile service that is sponsored by the irs.gov website. You fill in the pdf files and has all the instructions you need. It even has a few fields that are calculated by the site to ensure you don't make calculation mistakes.
Tax compliance is in Federal interest, and with standard Free and Open software everyone could use the same application.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I've used TaxAct for several years now. State taxes are pretty straightforward once you've done the federal, but I do buy the $15 state software to make my life easier, and as a token of gratitude.
The main barrier is that tax software is different every year. Each year the tax code is changed then published. This published tax code is not readable by mortals. It is read by tax lawyers who work with the tax prep software makers to make sure that this years tax code is reflected in the tax prep software.
As much as I love FOSS, I doubt that a volunteer community would be able to pull off this level of complexity and do it on time each year.
Being that it would be a community effort, what happens if the guy who is in charge of component X gets a new job and can't devote his time to getting that component out the door on time. In most FOSS communities this is not a problem. That component just doesn't get worked on until someone picks up the torch later on. In tax prep software this would be a showstopper. The whole thing would grind to a halt if the whole piece of software does not reflect accurately the current year's tax code.
This: For this you want a professional product (Score:1, Offtopic)
It doesn't answer the question, it solves the problem. Fill out a PDF. The instructions are clear. If the instructions are NOT clear, you should not be filling out your own taxes.
ALL tax software is ONLY as good as a spreadsheet and you should not be trusting the numbers if you cannot cross-check them.
If you do not understand your own taxes, you should get someone that does; after years I finally have someone that can do them, and do them cheaper than I can online, and I can follow each and every form/number when they are done. If you don't understand when you are done, you are either being screwed (losing money) or setting yourself up to get screwed (exposing yourself to risk).
Seriously, your taxes will be picked apart by a human when/if you are audited, you deserve the same as a defense.
Tax software is one area where it's highly unlikely we are going to see open source alternatives. Writing tax software requires a great deal of time, knowledge and testing. It also helps to have accountants and lawyers and support people on staff. In other words, it costs money and who is going to front that kind of money and then give away the source code?
I'm from Finland were individuals and (at least that I know of) small companies can submit income taxes through provided internet forms, and individuals gets them pre-filled. (It still isn't perfect but it does have some validation and such...)
But first answer above "this is the kind of product that is done with help of lawyers and accountants" begs the question how freaking complicated is the US taxation forms?
If your main criteria is "freely available" and not "open source", and your adjusted gross income is less than $57K, you can just fill out the forms for free. It uses Adobe Flash if you have an aversion to such things, and there doesn't appear to be anything open source about it.
If your AIG is more than $57K, your tax situation is probably such that you ought to be handing over some money to a pro or Turbo Tax.
Then you don't have to deal with taxes anymore!
Twitter: @dainsanefh
There are several people who have posted excel spreadsheets. Some of them even work with open office.
I've found them helpful for tax planning, but I still shell out $20 for tax act.
For example www.taxvisor.com is pretty good.
This is the sort of question only ./ ponders while the rest of us spend our $20 after rebate for a dependable program. I don't like Intuit, so have used HR Block for years with no problems at all.
Come see for yourself: (200+ pages, 8 MB PDF)
http://thorndike.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Romney1040-2010.pdf
Twitter: @dainsanefh
The Government would love to give free tax software but they have been fought every step of the way by the likes of Intuit and the tax software industry.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/08/02/1856215/Intuit-Still-Fighting-Government-Tax-Software
I realize most of you will assume this question is USA related (I see the firehose story got tagged with "usa" quite quickly), but it applies to lots of other countries too. In Canada, we're supposed to use NETFILE certified software, most of which is free up to a certain income threshold. The Canada Revenue Agency has a list of all software certified for your 2012 filing (i.e.: 2011 tax year). Some of those same companies are probably certified by the IRS for filing taxes in the USA too.
A recursive sig
Can impart wisdom and truth
Call proc signature()
TurboTax, et al could be made open source, but it there are major problems.
While the major deductions haven't changed (e.g. mortgage, charitable contributions, etc), a lot of other stuff change, expire, get extended, year to year. While I would love to see a stable, open-source TurboTax, there is just too much at stake.
When you install Linux on your computer, the overall cost is your system. If Linux somehow crashes and melts your motherboard, it sucks but you won't go to jail or get fined for it. Most, if not all open source software include clauses that absolve the authors of anything bad. Ultimately, you want to be able to say, "Linus Torvalds, that jerk, told me that I could claim my penis enlargement pills were tax-deductible!" and have the government hold him liable.
We don't live in Shouldland.
IANAMM (I am not a Master's in Math). I find the calculations in tax law rather evil-hard. It's a different kind of hard that "higher math" - it's the numerical interlocks that are brutal. I'm rusty so I'm making this up as pseudo-taxcode, but stuff like the sentence below are typical *easy* tax law!
"You own a rental building and rent 2 units out to tenants and live in the third. You bought the building first as part of a partnership then later acquired the whole thing, so your basis calculations are already a little strange. You run two small businesses out of your house. One of them qualifies for the Office In the Home forms. Your truck is 40% business one year and 60% business the other year because you have obligations that only arise every second year. Because you took accelerated depreciation on your truck, you cannot also take accelerated depreciation on some of your office in the home assets. For six months you also ran a day care service in that office-in-home. You are divorced but you won stock in the divorce settlement as substitute for alimony. That stock has split twice and then merged separately."
Blecch.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Is it really that big a deal to use a piece of commercial software? Depending on how complicated your taxes are it could be free, $50 or $75. That's really really cheap compared to using a CPA. I have three LLCs, an S-Corp with 60 employees and two rental properties. I use an accountant. I *wish* I could use a $50 package and do it myself.
It seems to me like you are complaining about there being a very reasonably priced piece of mass produced software available that completely solves your problem.
First of all, I use H&R Block's software because they're not the "big guy" when it comes to tax software. And they have an OS X version. (although this year's version bitches at you if you're still running 10.4). I can usually find it at Fry's for $15 for the basic edition (I don' t have state income tax) if I pay attention and get it in January. And the E-File supports five filings from the code, so I can let my mom use it too (that's how I know about the 10.4 thing). (FWIW, they charge $10 for a single E-file if you don't have that code.)
The main problem is that it's not a trivial problem, because Congress (aka "the opposite of Progress") is involved. I'm pretty sure that elected lawmakers are NP-complete. Or maybe NP-incomplete. And they are constantly changing things, sometimes for the sake of changing things. ("Hey, look! I'm doing something!") And this process is repeated in most states. (I live in Texas, one of the few that doesn't.) And maybe even one or two really big cities. So instead of just one tax code to worry about, now you have around fifty. Someone has to update that crap every year, and you would probably prefer it be someone who is paid to be responsible for doing it right.
But whatever you get, remember to write down what it cost you so you can count it as a deduction for next year, assuming you do itemized deductions, which is where you really need good software. (If you're too young to have a mortgage, you're probably not going to have any benefit from itemized deductions.)
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
It's unfortunate that our tax law is so complex that we have to have complicated software or an accountant. While I'd like to have simpler taxes, I'll settle for moderately priced tax software that runs on linux. Tax time is the one time each year that I dust off my old Windows PC because neither HR Block or TurboTax will run under linux.
I have used [url=http://www.studiotax.com/en/main.htm]StudioTax (free)[/url] in Canada for the last several years and am quite happy with it
For most people it's not hard at all. It can be fairly difficult for businesses or when you have extraordinary things you can deduct from taxes, but for the vast majority of people the 1040-EZ form is sufficient. That's about as simple as what you see in Finland, if I had to guess. I have filled out German tax forms and the 1040-EZ is absolutely comparable It doesn't come pre-filled, but you get paperwork from your employer about your earnings where the boxes and fields are clearly numbered. You simply plug in the values - that's it. You'd hopefully be doing that with the Finnish pre-filled paperwork to catch any possible errors on their side.
The topic is vastly overrated.
IF you feel comfortable filling out tax forms directly and you qualify for IRS free file, there is Free File Fillable Forms [https://www.freefilefillableforms.com]. Beware it can handle addition but doesn't do any other thinking for you. Anyone can use this service to file a 1040, 1040A or 1040EZ - there is no maximum AGI requirement.
That said, this may not work for the OP since it doesn't compete with TurboTax's services: finding and maximizing deductions, checking for errors and omissions, state returns, soothing graphics, etc, yada. And despite being no-cost, it is debatable how open the whole process is. For instance, it is an IRS website but the privacy policy directs you to contact the Free File Alliance, a "coalition of industry-leading tax software companies."
For income tax in Canada, have a look at http://www.studiotax.com/en/main.htm. It's free as in beer, but I don't know about libre. WIndows only.
-- hendrik
An amazing amount of ambiguity and crap in the tax code would go away if the Government were required to publish a program in Java (probably best balance of portability, capability, and specification) and that program WAS the definition of the tax code.
This would have the nice side effect of keeping lawyers who can't think formally (in the mathematical sense) away from tax law.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Anyone who owns a house is an idiot if they file a 1040 EZ.
Since > 50% of citizens are homeowners, I would not agree with your assessment that "for the vast majority of people the 1040-EZ form is sufficient". For a large minority, possibly. But not for the majority, or indeed not the vast majority.
Do them online at hrblock website using firefox on your laptop running linux
I am going to guess Straddles – a subclass of constructive sales. The IRS does not want you to effectively sells something this tax year and delay the payment for years. It used to be that one could delay taxes for years.
Some of the regulations conflict with each other since they were written to stop specific transactions while not considering the whole situation. Others are vague on purpose, to discourage people from getting anywhere close – but it does leave professionals guessing.
I have seen Tax Lawyers giving an opinion, and then disclaiming any responsibility for their opinion.
GnuCash seems to have some tax-related features. Not being a US citizen, I never bothered to learn them.
There are so many government subsidized programs that allow people to file simple federal taxes, that this question rarely comes up. If H&R Block or TurboTax offers cheap tax preparation, then most people can and will use it. Even non profits that help prepare taxes typically use one of the commercial preparers. I think the government has done a good job of giving people several options to file taxes inexpensively or even free. It would be nice if some tax attorneys created a free open source method to help people file taxes, however it would require attorneys and accountants to volunteer a good amount of time, and come up with a product that does not infringe on commercial products. Oh yeah and you have to update it every year. It would be a cool project, but there is really no market for it.
Same in Sweden. You get a pre-filled form sent out, and you can confirm it with a text message or over the net (where you can also make changes, but that mostly only applies for people who run private businesses).
Why are they making individuals do all this work in the US? The state are going to check it anyway, aren't they?
Personally, I think the question is wrong. The real question should be "Is there any software that runs natively under Linux or maybe under Wine?" As many have said in this thread, tax software is complex and always changing. If the product were good and met your needs at a reasonable price, why not pay for something once in a while. I use mostly OSS on Ubuntu. However, I use Moneydance for my financial software because I find it is a good value and meets my needs. The fact that I pay a little for it doesn't make me a traitor to the open source community. I also use Vuescan in my photography work. I also paid for that with a one time fee. Those are the only two non-free packages I use. They both run natively under Linux and they are well worth the cost to me. But I use lots of OSS packages. And as a little acknowledeged point about OSS, how much do you contribute to the projects? Do you want a free ride in every aspect of your life? Come on, get real. Let's do what we can to get some commercial venture to develop their tax software for our chosen platform. Quit griping that everything in the world is not free!
People on /. are supposed to be smart. Doing your own taxes using the IRS forms and instructions is not that hard. I have done my own taxes (including schedules A, B, D) for many years now and I've never even been audited. People seem to be so terrified of being audited that they pay someone else for a service or software product just to make themselves feel better. It's the same damn data that your sending to the IRS. If that data is accurate there won't be a problem. Come on, people.
If you make a good amount of money and have investments etc., ask around to find a reputable professional and pay them. They know the tax laws, and the really good ones *enjoy* finding ways to save you money legally. Like someone else mentioned, you can deduct what you paid that professional on next year's taxes.
US Tax Code is 5,296 pages long. Source: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/04/09/150261550/why-congress-wont-simplify-the-tax-code
Example of "exceptions to exceptions". Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/magazine/whats-the-easiest-way-to-cheat-on-your-taxes.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=magazine
I have a fantastic tax preparation system: Mark Frenchell. And the best part is it was built using a very small company of only two people: Howard and Josephine Frenchell.
Ron Paul 2012, end the Fed and you wont have to worry :}
in Brazil, the gov provides a java app that runs fine on any system, works 100000x times better than turbo tax or any other system i've seem in the USA will ever dream to. It's one application that covers all cases, imports last year so you have to change very little year-to-year and you can compare everything in real time to decide over itemized or simple.
i did my 1st tax here in USA yesterday. simply printed the forms (a huge chore since every link in the IRS website is a bait to paid services ... there's no free version for california residents unless you live under the state poor line for income) and got the same return as last year when ernest&young did a lousy job for me that costed a couple hundreds for my employer. They were so lousy understanding the laws for immigrants that they had to file an extension and could only complete that when a more senior guy showed up (after months) to do my forms.
Everyone around me paid $50~$100 to a company that did the same job i did in 1h~2h. Plus they did most of the work, as MOST OF THE WORK IS COLLECTING data to send the company that will prepare for you. filling the forms (and reading instructions) was less then hunting my papers. ...i'm now having more trouble printing since i edited the damn forms in linux and now windows' adobe reader can't open the damn files and linux can't correctly send them to the printer. fuck printers. fuck adobe.
Download the forms, read the instructions, and fill them out. Forms are free. What's the problem?
Oh, you can't understand the instructions? Well, stop VOTING IN THE MORONS YOU KEEP VOTING IN OVER AND OVER AGAIN!
The tax form should look like this:
1. Income: _____
2. Multiple line 1 by 10% (or some other percent...)
3. This is your total tax: ______
it depends
if you have regular income, you rent a home/apartment it's easy. you just fill out the EZ form or do it online and file electronically. depending on who your paycheck provider is they will even import the income data.
in the US we have lots of tax deductions for different things. student loans, child care, mortgage interest, buying specific cars, buying a home during a tax credit year, opening businesses in specific areas, stock and investment sales must be reported, interest and dividends have to be reported, and a thousands other things you may do will raise or lower your taxes during the year
If you're in Canada, it's probably best to use something off of this list: http://www.impotnet.gc.ca/sftwr-eng.html. While I don't see anywhere saying that it's open source, StudioTax is free.
Seriously, what is the obsession here with people wanting everything for free? You want to do your taxes for free, sit down with the paper form and do them.
Where I live, the process goes like this:
AT THE START OF EACH YEAR: The government send you your tax card. It tells you your tax percentage, etc. (based on assumption that you earn as much as you did the previous year). You take that to your employer, he pays the taxes directly from your wage and there is nothing more you NEED to do. If your income is very different than it was the previous year, you get taxed the wrong amount and the government sends you either returns or a bill at the end of the year. If you know your income has changed and don't want a large bill/can't give the government any money temporarily, you can fill out a simple 1 page (2 sides) form that they sent you with the card (or submit it online) and then they'll send you a recalculated tax card.
DURING THE YEAR: Most people don't need to do anything. If your income changes a lot and you don't want to pay the government any extra (which they would, of course, return at the end of the year) or don't want a large bill, you can call them, visit an office or fill out the info online and they'll send you a recalculated tax card.
AT THE END OF THE YEAR: They tell you that they want to either return some money (and ask you to inform them if your bank account number has changed) or they send you a bill. Again, you get a simple 1 page (two-sided) form (or can fill it out online) to tell them about anything that might affect the decision (such as having earned/lost a lot of money by trading stock or any similar things).
For example, I got a bit better paying job last year but was too lazy to inform them so they now sent me a letter "You've earned more than we thought you would, so you've paid 790 euros too little taxes. Here are two bills of 395 euros, you have six months to pay the first and twelve months to pay the second. Here is a form you can use to complain if we've made any incorrect decisions." I might fill out the form because I've spent quite a few euros to buying stuff that indirectly helps me earn income (books to get certifications, etc.) and that sort of stuff is tax deductible. I don't expect to reduce the bill by a lot but it's going to take just 3 minutes or so, so why not.
I've never understood why does USA have such a complex system that the government doesn't know how much they should pay taxes...
It's not like 1040EZ is hard. It's only got like 10 lines - 4 of which are name and address. Really, it's just copy a few numbers off the W-2 and look it up in the tax table. Do a couple of adds and a subtract. Sign. Stuff envelope and put a stamp on it. It used to take me about 15 minutes to do my taxes when I could do EZ.
If you can't do 1040EZ, I would suspect "freedom edition" wouldn't work either.
Yoghurt
eztaxreturn.com has worked well for me for several years.
The OP said "I wouldn't really need a GUI, but something that filled out PDF forms would be nice." If you go to irs.gov, download the forms you need as PDFs, and open them with Adobe Reader, the boxes in the forms can be filled out within the software. Iit won't do any of the calculations for you, though, but at least it's a tad better than printing them and filling them out by hand.
You could file your taxes in the 1940's - where is was published in the local newspaper so everybody would know. Any early example of crowdsourcing law enforcement.
You can send in the forms yourself - then only the IRS and you know what was filed.
You can send in the info via Turbo Tax / H&R Block - Then another party konws. They are kind of limited to who they can share the data with, but.....
Here's the Open Source solution to writing tax software: Focus on repealing the 16th ammendment.
Post your income, number of dependents, all of your Social Security numbers, real estate taxes and other deductions, etc. right here - the Slashdot crowd will do it all for you in the comments.
It's basically analogous to how people repeatedly "Ask Slashdot" questions about legal matters.
#DeleteChrome
I would love that. Right now the company I work for uses a “conservative” interpretation of the tax code. With this would could specifically construct business transactions that would abuse any loophole. I mean, it's fair for Wizards of the Coast to update the rules to close loopholes found by Magic players - but it's harder for the IRS.
Of course, I jest. Here is a great “ambiguities” in the tax code: If a transaction is primarily for tax reasons and not business reasons it’s disallowed. Great way to retroactively close abusive. On the other hand, I would like to see a bit more detail on constructive sales.
Filing your taxes in the US is not complicated at it's most basic form. Applying every deduction, credit, interest payment, disbursement, etc properly and legally to minimize the tax you owe, or increase the tax refund/credits you should get, can become VERY complicated. There are literally hundreds of situations that can modify the amount of tax owed in either direction, and a great many of them are totally counter-intuitive.
One can simply take the standard deduction and enter in all earned income data, but for many Americans that would leave thousands of dollars on the table, and for some Americans, it could actually get them in trouble or make them owe thousands more later on (filing self-employment income incorrectly, for example).
It gets worse when you find these laws change every single year for various reasons (I have my suspicions but this is not intended to be a political post).
Truly open tax law shouldn't be expressed in words or software, but a set of interfaces and unit test definitions.
/., often bleed into the mainstream media. Politicians could get their names attributed via metadata to every test they approved in vote.
In compliance with these definitions, the government would have its own implementation, TurboTax, etc would have their own.
An open-source ecosystem would become truly possible (indeed, probable) - you wouldn't need to be a tax law expert to do an implementation, and you'd just have to tweak your code base every year to keep it up to date. Yes, it would be rather a lot of work at first, but you'd know it's correct when all the tests pass.
Otherwise obscure but glaring corporate tax law problems would become regular talk on places like
"Open source solution or not, if you're a U.S. taxpayer, the deadline for filing is nearly to hand."
Except that, if you're a U.S. taxpayer, you would instead say "the deadline for filing is nearly at hand." :P
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Freefilefillableforms.com is an online tax preparation and efile service that is free. No income limitations and almost all 1040 related forms. I have used it for several years and it is great. You can save the return to your disk as a pdf. It computes the fields and does some basic error checking. It links to related forms and instructions. Easy to use GUI, almost too flashy sometimes. It does not store the data in any usable format, but that is fine for me because I do everything in Quicken.
I have been using their online service for ~6+ years now, previously at the Premium level (~$50). This year I saw something pretty much unprecedented for an online services provider. They advised the Deluxe level (about half the price) for returning customers. (Note: they say that pretty much any version should be adequate for just about any normal user to fill out their forms correctly. They all have access to the same forms. The only difference is in the tools and menus that facilitate the data entry.)
For the first time I made an error filling out one of the forms and had a smooth 2-stage process talking to their support (first technical, then tax) to correct it. At only $30 I still save about $270 compared to going to a professional, and have decent confidence. At that price I can justify it on the convenience of fairly mindlessly filling out e-forms (ie. as opposed to hard copy) alone.
Bukowski said it. I believe it. That settles it.
...instructions as to where the government is to spend your tax dollar.
This is the only way things are going to get straightened out and we'll take budget setting off their plate as they can't seem to do it anyway.
This is a core solution that extrapolates out to solve many problems regard bad & corrupt government and corporate ties (lobbyist influence using money large corporations didn't pay in taxes - which is in sum a lot less than the people pay in taxes in sum). It also means you can participate in this Republic Democracy where it really matters, rather than voting for some politician to lie to you for their term. Taxation without representation is what the founders of this country were against when they created the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. Representation is not a person that them lies to you, but representation is wheat benefits you can see and participate in.
isn't really that good - in my experience anyway. I had some questions about carrying over a loss from a passive activity that I was no longer doing. I called the IRS and was put in touch with the guy who, by his account, was "in charge" of that form. After I asked my question , he read the instructions to me. I outlined the part of the instructions I thought was ambiguous, and asked for clarification. He reread the paragraph, and then suggested I call a professional. The price of professional help would be on the order of the money saved by taking the carry over. So I dropped it.
46 & 2
Are you an employee of the U.S. government? A resident of the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, or Guam? If the answer is no to all of the above, YOU DON'T HAVE TO FILE YOUR INCOME TAXES!! All of you have been tricked into thinking that you have to file since you where born! Did you know that if you do file that you are saying that you are from Guam or Puerto Rico? That you are committing fraud? Of course you don't, and the government and the IRS don't mind that you don't know and just give them your money anyways. If you don't believe me, then go ask your friendly IRS office the law where you are personally liable for Federal Income Tax. I'll let you in on a little secret, there isn't any law that make you liable.
and if you care, take a look at this link...
http://www.usa-the-republic.com/revenue/BATF-IRS%20Criminal%20Report.html
Why doesn't the IRS provide tax software for free?
Another reason that you won't see open source software that will fill out your forms is testing by the IRS. The IRS *requires* that all tax preparation software be tested by them. If there were open source software that you could recompile, *every* time it was recompiled it would have to be sent in to the IRS and tested anew. Even if all you did was corrected a spelling error in a comment.
It would be entirely possible to create free software, that runs on Linux even, to prepare your tax forms. It would simply have to remain closed source. But then almost the entire Linux community would rise up against it for being closed source.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
http://www.excel1040.com/
Free, works in open office, has been doing this for 15 years.
Produced the same results as professional software.
Probably not good if you have some new tax activity in your life until you see it done right once.
I.e. "This year, for the first time, I'm doing my own taxes".
I.e. "This year, for the first time, I started buying and selling stocks".
I.e. "This year, for the first time, I started renting property to others".
The form is there- but you have to know to fill it out and how to fill it out.
I used it in Openoffice or Libreoffice and it worked great. I have a complicated return and have been doing my own returns for the last 15 years. This sheet made it much easier than doing taxes by hand. It took under 2 hours to do my taxes.
Highly Recommended.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I would totally support an open source tax initiative. I would pay up to $100 for it. If someone with a credible computer science background teamed up with a lawyer to do this on kickstarter, I would throw my money at them.
This is personal experience, not speculation.
I filed my 2010 taxes through TaxAct Online Ultimate Bundle (the version you pay a bit for and it includes a state return). I requested an extension, following the instructions associated with the software. The electronic extension request bounced for unclear reasons, and I was notified of the failure after the filing deadline passed. I resorted to a paper request for extension. I paid an overestimate of the tax I might owe along with the extension request. I relied on written instructions from TaxAct that the recorded attempt at an electronically authorized extension satisfied the filing deadline, and that the subsequent written request was proper even though mailed a day after the deadline.
I heard nothing from IRS for months. I filed my final return well in advance of the extended deadline, and asked for a refund of my overpayment. I was assessed a huge fine, based on the total amount of tax that I had already paid on time, multiplied by the time between the deadline and the final filing.
I appealed to TaxAct for help and they just referred me back to IRS. IRS had no comment regarding the instructions from TaxAct, although they had made special arrangements with TaxAct to receive electronic filings. IRS eventually forgave the penalties, with a letter saying that I was in the wrong, but they would let it go this time, and I shouldn't expect such leniency again for myself or anyone else.
I still use TaxAct because the alternatives that I have tried are worse. I make sure that I have acknowledgment of filing before the deadline, and I have a backup plan to send paper copies on the deadline if I have not received acknowledgment.
Mike O'Donnell http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~odonnell/
I think you're assuming most homeowners pay usurious interest on their mortgages. I don't.
I have a wife and four kids, and the only income is my job.
Even though we tithe, the standard deduction is still twice what the itemized would be.
Free.
Works in Excel, Openoffice, Libreoffice.
I understand your points.
This is a labor of love by a guy who's been doing it 15 years.
For 90.35% of tax payers of average intelligence, who've had their return done professionally last year and have a copy, his spreadsheets are fine.
The only time you need a professional is when something new starts like you start renting property or you start buying and selling stocks. In those cases, you might miss a sheet.
Other than the statistical audit, unless you are really cheating hard, there is basically no risk of an audit if you are in the bottom 98% of income. The IRS has better things to do than have someone spend a couple days to nail you for a $47 error in their favor.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I paid for the TaxAct Ultimate Bundle, followed their instructions for getting an extension to the filing deadline, overpaid my taxes with the extension request, did everything that any of the software or correspondence directed, and got a huge fine from IRS. TaxAct declined to help in any way.
I still use TaxAct for lack of something better, but I don't trust their instructions completely.
Mike O'Donnell http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~odonnell/
I think you missed my past tense usage. In the past, the amount of income tax you paid was public. Your right that today it’s private.
I thought that this data was still published when the income tax was reintroduced in the 1940s. I am not so sure about that. On the other hand, when the Income Tax was first introduced in the in 1860’s is was public – just like property tax. NPR’s plant money had a nice little story on this.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/03/23/149058446/from-abe-lincoln-to-donald-duck-history-of-the-income-tax
Not open source, but free (as in Beer) is Studio Tax http://www.studiotax.com/ which is netfile certified
I filed using a paper return, printed from their "fill-in PDF" tax form. So they still have to type it in.
The issue for me is not how to prepare the tax form, or even the e-filing. The issue for me is having to use some corporation to do the e-file in a way that allows the corporation to see it. It's "not in an envelope" electronically unless it is encrypted with the recipient (IRS) public encryption key.
Next year will be on paper, too, unless they fix the e-filing system.
And tax software that runs on Linux is a plus. An open-source one is even better. But "direct e-file" would be the best.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Ahh yes the system is "completely broken." But somehow I get clean water from the tap. The roads are not filled with potholes. We have police and fire service as well. Schools with teachers check. What exactly is completely broken? What doesn't get done that should?
I'm remaining an anonymous coward for a reason, but the reason there is no open-source software is simple man hours.
My wife is a CPA, and her firm purchases sophisticated tax software for a reason. The company not only guarantees an up-to-date version every year, but also changes the software on a weekly basis and issues updates. A little known fact about tax-law. Sometimes the I.R.S. doesn't even publish the forms for filing certain returns until as late as January of the year they are due. Hell, sometimes the tax code for a previous year is not even finalized until the following year (e.g. the payroll tax extension that had to be renewed in February). And in spite of these bureaucratic delays, business returns are due March 15 in the U.S., and individuals are due April 15. These are firm deadlines that do not change (unless you file for an extension, but you have to ask for it or you don't get it). In other words, you have to have an open-source team that is dedicated to completely changing, testing, and validating tax software as the tax code changes, and doing so with a turn-around time measured in days or weeks sometimes. And to emphasize, the important part of that process is validation and testing since the numbers of one form feed into another form on another return and have material and cascading consequences.
I'm not saying it's not possible to for an open-source team to accomplish all this. I'm just saying that unless someone is paying for the open-source team's time, it is going to be damn hard to accomplish. Further, the key requirements of tax software - testing and validation (the programming itself is rather straightforward) - are open source's notorious weak points. There is no extended beta-test here, especially since it is the user who faces civil and criminal penalties if the tax software spits out the wrong answer. It simply has to be perfect upon release, and that requires an extensive testing and validation infrastructure.
take a look at this first: http://www.cs.amherst.edu/~djv/irs.pdf (what If the IRS had discovered the quadratic formula . . .)
and then imagine the definition of quadratic formula change every year.
As a tax preparer, the IRS will hold you responsible for errors on the return. For example, if a single mom and her three kids come into your office with a W-2 for $16K, and you file her personal return claiming Head of Household and Earned Income Credit, and then the IRS determines the kids are really not hers, guess who is penalized? Correct--You, the tax preparer!. You should have know they weren't her kids! As a software developer, I made a stab at this last year. It's really too big a project for one or two developers, especially when the tax law is changed on December 15th and the app must be ready on January 15th. And the IRS requires they "certify" the software beforehand. As for tax simplification--it'll never happen. There are too many rice bowls that would have to be broken.
Part of the way the middle class reduce their tax burden here is by running businesses. I hardly know anyone here that doesn't have some kind of business operation because it allows them to get various tax advantages.
Similarly the US likes to incetivize things through the tax code. I'm getting $53 because I put in an energy efficient door - in any other part of the world they'd just give that credit to the manufacturer and let the free market pass that through to the consumer, but for some reason that's not popular here.
I lived most of my life in the UK, and it simply astounded me to land here. It also allows americans to bitch about how high nominal tax rates are when many people pay less than them.
...I need to call my CPA and make sure she files and extension for me....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
There is no open source tax software because the IRS won't accept returns from it. The IRS won't accept returns from it because the makers of the tax software have successfully lobbied congress to ensure themselves a corner on the market.
If the open source community can write X, then I think they can manage tax software. The 0.1 version would be piss poor, but in 5 years it'd be better than anything else as people find ways to maximize it.
https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/
The reason people want a free app has nothing to do with cost. It has to do with freedom. I wouldn't use any commercial tax application because these programs are non-free and I can't use them on my free system. I also wouldn't use them because I'm not an accountant. The tax code in the US is COMPLICATED. I wouldn't ask slashdot for help with my taxes just like I wouldn't ask slashdot for help with my legal troubles. That said I WOULD contribute to free tax software that my accountant could use given that there were people working on such an application. Accountants don't use turbotax or taxact for tax preparation for a reason. All the people who think these are the "best" are sadly mistaken. The real experts use another program for which I'm unfamiliar and it costs a boatload. I think there is a yearly charge and then each tax return the accountant/tax person files costs $$$ too.
I just realized I'm the only one I know that uses linux. Except for the custom boot cd's i send my customers for troubleshooting, Linux continues it's race to irrelevancy on the desktop.
A very nice Nigerian prince gave me some really swell tax software. It even electronically processed my over-payment.
Table-ized A.I.
Surprisingly, I haven't seen this suggestion yet:
Take it to your local IRS office, and ask them to assist you.
Seriously.
They are required, by law, to assist any taxpayer who asks for it - up to, and including, filling out all forms and checking them for accuracy (given you've brought in all the documents required). They cannot charge you for this service, and they are trained, every year, in what has changed in the tax code and what they should be looking out for.
No, it's not software. Sorry.
Truck driver, plumber, Linux systems engineer.
Efforts to simplify are stopped by huge lobbies. Lobbies also create the millions of loopholes that get rich "special interests" the discounts they want.
Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.