Apologies, yes I did mean redistribution of a derivative work, although I thought that would have been apparent since I was replying to a post that inquired about the compatability of licenses, implying redistribution.
Re:gcj and the new license wars
on
Open source Java?
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· Score: 2, Interesting
You seem to be unable to differentiate between dual licensing, which has nothing to do with the GPL, and license compatability, which does. Everyone talks a lot about whether a license is compatable with the GPL, but everyone also glosses over the fact that this compatability is one way only - a by product of the way the GPL is written is that it is designed to leech from other opensource projects without the 'paying up' as you put it. My point is essentially that it offers no advantage to the Apache development team to expend any effort in ensuring that their license is at all comptabale with the GPL because they will not foster anything from it.
You cant redistribute GPL code under the Apache2 license. As my post says, the compatability is one way only, yet only ever is any fuss made about GPL compatability when someone wants to include code under a the GPL.
So you believe this project will make Sun finally to set THE Java Free?
I'm not holding my breath...
I dont believe anything, Im not even a Java developer:) Im reading and commenting on this story because Im waiting for some ObjC code to compile atm, no other reason!
Actually, code can be double-licensed under GPL and another license, but you need some conditions for that (i.e. you can't integrate any GPL code into your main tree, you must be the original author of the code (not basing it on any prior GPL code), or backport modifications to your GNU code by others back into the non-GNU version.)
That doesnt mean the GPL is compatable with any other license, it means that you as copyright holder have the power to license your code in anyway you see fit within boundries (like is your work a derivative etc).
At least he hasnt deleted this one, my comment history has a number of comments in it that lead nowhere because Zonk deletes stories and comments. Talk about breaking the referential integrety of slashdot:(
Re:gcj and the new license wars
on
Open source Java?
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
GPL and Apache licenses aren't quite compatible.
Since the GPL doesnt allow for distribution of code under any other license, then its not compatable with any other license. Other licenses are compatable with it, but its most certainly not a two way thing.
Sometimes different ideologies foster competition, just as Firefox has forced MS to reopen development on IE 7, the GPL license forces people with more broader ideologies to create competitors to GPLed projects.
Commercials are also local market dependant in a lot of cases, for example a program that airs on the east coast wont have the same adverts when it airs on the west coast, as a lot of the local adverts wouldnt have any effect.
Was it really VHS that was inferior, when Betamax couldnt hold an entire film on one tape? When the convenience factor is superior in a product, it generally wins over other products which are superior in other ways. I also hear Betamax had problems with Stereo sound as well.
And now Im in a wierd position, I would *love* to moderate you for that comment (up incase youi were wondering) but I cant because Ive commented, but you wouldnt have made that comment if I hadnt commented, so I couldnt have moderated you if I hadnt commented. Oh well:)
Win 3.1 was prevented from running on DR-DOS, sounds much like the recent Real and Ipod saga. Microsoft prevented OEMs from distributing Windows AND other OSes at the same time, Apple does just the same - in both cases the after sales market isnt prevented from doing anything. Apple doesnt like competition any more than Microsoft.
As I posted earlier about the password protected zipped virus, when the user is stupid, theres very little you can do except to clean up after them, and this is equally true for Windows, Linux, OSX and every other OS. Or are you advocating that a user should only be able to run known clean exes and nothing else?
So, what admin privileges does sending email require? It doesnt have to sit on port 25, higher ports are fine for sending email, and it can listen for commands in any number of differnet ways, so again it doesnt need admin privileges. A non privileged user can quite happily cause the system to become part of a zombie network used to spam the world.
The definition these days is really blurred - viruses can replicate and distribute themselves, with or without human intervention at some point (initial activation etc), while trojans carry an ulterior payload piggybacked onto something else. The one I mentioned carried JUST the nasty payload, and not anything else, so technically its not a trojan. Its probably best to think of modern trojans as being a subset of viruses rather than in a set of their own.
If the user runs something, theres no vulnerability required, and many nasty things can be done without admin privileges. Protect against that without a virus checker.
One of the recent successful viruses (I refuse to use the term virii) required the user to extract the virus from the attached password protected zip file using the password supplied in the email, and run it. Microsoft is to blame for a lot of things, but theres also a huge market for protecting against user stupidity out there too.
Minor nitpick - in the UK you have a 'Right to Reply' about an article published about yourself. The newspaper has to print your reply to that article, and most usually either bury it or place it on the Readers Letters page. In short, some magazines, websites or newspapers are legally and ethically obliged to publish some things.
The delivering providor already does charge the origionating providor per message, but in most cases its between large networks which hand off to each other a roughly equal amount of messages, so they dont charge each other. SMS is not like email, and providors do get charged if they dont handle an equal amount of message traffic the other way.
The UK authorities seem to manage placing speed cameras where they face minimal damage or tampering (and maximum fine production), Im sure they can provide suitable containers and locations for these things.
That was my point:) They took a 'dead' aircraft, painted it and damaged it on site for filming. For example, Lost used a L-1011 aircraft for the wreckage but the plane in the story was a 777, and they thought noone would notice the difference:)
Thats not really odd, twins have less maintenance requirements than quads, but twins are also limited to ETOPS ranges, while quads arent. Air Canada just purchased the planes that matched both the routes they would fly (which are ETOPS compliant) and maintenance requirements, which turned out to be the 777. Other airlines fly ETOPS incompatable routes, and therefor need quads, A340, 747 etc.
I agree, there are cases where the CLI works better, but there are also cases where GUIs work better too. Tell me how to select and manipulate 10 dissimiliarly named files at the same time in a directory with 100 files in, on the commandline? EG to ftp somewhere, to cp somewhere or to delete. You might spend some moments formulating a regexp to catch just the files you want and testing it, but a GUI selection ability is much faster.
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Apologies, yes I did mean redistribution of a derivative work, although I thought that would have been apparent since I was replying to a post that inquired about the compatability of licenses, implying redistribution.
You seem to be unable to differentiate between dual licensing, which has nothing to do with the GPL, and license compatability, which does. Everyone talks a lot about whether a license is compatable with the GPL, but everyone also glosses over the fact that this compatability is one way only - a by product of the way the GPL is written is that it is designed to leech from other opensource projects without the 'paying up' as you put it. My point is essentially that it offers no advantage to the Apache development team to expend any effort in ensuring that their license is at all comptabale with the GPL because they will not foster anything from it.
You cant redistribute GPL code under the Apache2 license. As my post says, the compatability is one way only, yet only ever is any fuss made about GPL compatability when someone wants to include code under a the GPL.
So you believe this project will make Sun finally to set THE Java Free? I'm not holding my breath...
I dont believe anything, Im not even a Java developer :) Im reading and commenting on this story because Im waiting for some ObjC code to compile atm, no other reason!
Actually, code can be double-licensed under GPL and another license, but you need some conditions for that (i.e. you can't integrate any GPL code into your main tree, you must be the original author of the code (not basing it on any prior GPL code), or backport modifications to your GNU code by others back into the non-GNU version.)
That doesnt mean the GPL is compatable with any other license, it means that you as copyright holder have the power to license your code in anyway you see fit within boundries (like is your work a derivative etc).
At least he hasnt deleted this one, my comment history has a number of comments in it that lead nowhere because Zonk deletes stories and comments. Talk about breaking the referential integrety of slashdot :(
GPL and Apache licenses aren't quite compatible.
Since the GPL doesnt allow for distribution of code under any other license, then its not compatable with any other license. Other licenses are compatable with it, but its most certainly not a two way thing.Sometimes different ideologies foster competition, just as Firefox has forced MS to reopen development on IE 7, the GPL license forces people with more broader ideologies to create competitors to GPLed projects.
Commercials are also local market dependant in a lot of cases, for example a program that airs on the east coast wont have the same adverts when it airs on the west coast, as a lot of the local adverts wouldnt have any effect.
btefnet hasnt been attacked yet, they removed their websites as a precaution - the IRC channel is still giving out torrents.
Was it really VHS that was inferior, when Betamax couldnt hold an entire film on one tape? When the convenience factor is superior in a product, it generally wins over other products which are superior in other ways. I also hear Betamax had problems with Stereo sound as well.
And now Im in a wierd position, I would *love* to moderate you for that comment (up incase youi were wondering) but I cant because Ive commented, but you wouldnt have made that comment if I hadnt commented, so I couldnt have moderated you if I hadnt commented. Oh well :)
Win 3.1 was prevented from running on DR-DOS, sounds much like the recent Real and Ipod saga. Microsoft prevented OEMs from distributing Windows AND other OSes at the same time, Apple does just the same - in both cases the after sales market isnt prevented from doing anything. Apple doesnt like competition any more than Microsoft.
So where can I moderate Cowboyneals comments on this story?
As I posted earlier about the password protected zipped virus, when the user is stupid, theres very little you can do except to clean up after them, and this is equally true for Windows, Linux, OSX and every other OS. Or are you advocating that a user should only be able to run known clean exes and nothing else?
So, what admin privileges does sending email require? It doesnt have to sit on port 25, higher ports are fine for sending email, and it can listen for commands in any number of differnet ways, so again it doesnt need admin privileges. A non privileged user can quite happily cause the system to become part of a zombie network used to spam the world.
The definition these days is really blurred - viruses can replicate and distribute themselves, with or without human intervention at some point (initial activation etc), while trojans carry an ulterior payload piggybacked onto something else. The one I mentioned carried JUST the nasty payload, and not anything else, so technically its not a trojan. Its probably best to think of modern trojans as being a subset of viruses rather than in a set of their own.
If the user runs something, theres no vulnerability required, and many nasty things can be done without admin privileges. Protect against that without a virus checker.
One of the recent successful viruses (I refuse to use the term virii) required the user to extract the virus from the attached password protected zip file using the password supplied in the email, and run it. Microsoft is to blame for a lot of things, but theres also a huge market for protecting against user stupidity out there too.
Minor nitpick - in the UK you have a 'Right to Reply' about an article published about yourself. The newspaper has to print your reply to that article, and most usually either bury it or place it on the Readers Letters page. In short, some magazines, websites or newspapers are legally and ethically obliged to publish some things.
Well, I guess Apache, Mysql and PHP are off the list then too, since those run the vast majority of sites that slashdot murders ruthlessly.
The delivering providor already does charge the origionating providor per message, but in most cases its between large networks which hand off to each other a roughly equal amount of messages, so they dont charge each other. SMS is not like email, and providors do get charged if they dont handle an equal amount of message traffic the other way.
The UK authorities seem to manage placing speed cameras where they face minimal damage or tampering (and maximum fine production), Im sure they can provide suitable containers and locations for these things.
That was my point :) They took a 'dead' aircraft, painted it and damaged it on site for filming. For example, Lost used a L-1011 aircraft for the wreckage but the plane in the story was a 777, and they thought noone would notice the difference :)
Thats not really odd, twins have less maintenance requirements than quads, but twins are also limited to ETOPS ranges, while quads arent. Air Canada just purchased the planes that matched both the routes they would fly (which are ETOPS compliant) and maintenance requirements, which turned out to be the 777. Other airlines fly ETOPS incompatable routes, and therefor need quads, A340, 747 etc.
I agree, there are cases where the CLI works better, but there are also cases where GUIs work better too. Tell me how to select and manipulate 10 dissimiliarly named files at the same time in a directory with 100 files in, on the commandline? EG to ftp somewhere, to cp somewhere or to delete. You might spend some moments formulating a regexp to catch just the files you want and testing it, but a GUI selection ability is much faster.
My point? Theres point to both methods.