I too feel the same way. I run a small wISP and deal with piggyback software to much. Can we get Norton or such to FINELY label kazaa what it is(ie virus) and setup the def's for it?
Armed with new data, human visitors may once again visit Earth's only natural satellite, this time to survey the scene and set up a permanent science outpost
Um, Didnt/. Just post a article about Earth having just gianed a 3rd satellite?? Would they not be "natural" since they were not put ther by man but by nature?(Or did God or Alien's do it?)
Hmm, Now that I think of it, a far off asteroid IS a good place for a "duck blind".
Um, Er, We have that already. Just call and pay, they will give you 1 test per day(or is it a week?) been a year since I was there. They have test centers all over. I didnt do much "formal" traning and that was online via web course's from
BMCC in Oregon.
http://www.newhorizons.com/retail/
Crackers`n`Soup
If you can dig, do it. Run some cat5 or coax. Its cheap for both(I buy 1000ft spool's of cat5 for about $50 shipped) and i have had coax at $75 for a 1000ft spool(army surplus). Buy some conduit from HomeDepot or the like.
There are a number of open source mesh protocol's Mobile Mesh is one
someone can't just tune into your WET11 and monitor traffic
Wrong. Using any number of free tool's from the net you can sniff 11b with little to no trouble. WEP is crackable in a few days. There are patch's but not many people even turn on WEP so it still a moot point. 11b is insecure: Period.
Only running some kind of tunnel(VPN/SSH/Ect) is your data secure. People should assume that in the first place even on wired connection's.
DS systems are, by nature, made to be open and easily accesed. FH is no hackable like DS is. You have to know the exact hop sequence, If you dont then forget about it. Not that it can't be done, just it hasn't been done.
Do not forget that things like AP spoofing and AP tunneling are possible too.
I fully agree. I am working on setting up a IRC server for everyone in town to do there, research of files, on. I explain it very carefully that the BW i charge for is what is used out to the 'net and not in town. They can use all the BW from each other they want. No one(but me) wants usenet access so i have not setup a server for that, yet. When i do it will be a caching server so it will handle wich groups to work with. I will throw a small 80G at it and they will like it or lump it =-)
Currently my bigest problem is 1 user. He is in for a rude awakening. The account he has is 256kbit up and down. 3G transfer/mo. $15 per GB after. In less then 3 days he has hit 1G.He is "only" using 1/2 of it at any one time. If he keeps it up he will pay for my T1 all by his self =-)
The customers i like are the older ones.They generaly do email and surfing with a few stock traders and ebay sellers. Once i get my proxy/dns server online ill be MUCH happier.(just lost a box to now known reasion)
I offer a firewall for $5/mo(bsd ipfw + dummynet) and the local collage gives norton away free(for those who know) and i sell it for a good deal less then anyone else in town.
I happen to have T1's from AT&T for my wISP. The problem with AT&T roilling out DS3's is not that they can not figure it out. Its that they don't want to. Period. They can't make much money on selling 1 or 2 DS3's out in BFE. They would rather pull a OC3 in and sell 5-10 DS3's. Yea, AT&T over sell's a 155mb line by 3-5 times. Take SBC, Im 1000 feet from there CO. They want 17K/mo for a DS3 loop, NO transport. Ok, fine, Let me put in a nice proxim wireless link. NO? Why not..
SBC wants a 13million insuance policy incase my hardware some how fry's theies. If i DO manage to become a CLEC and afford that insurance i can get the port in the CO(transport) for 2000/mo. Still no joy on a wireless link OR a resionable priced DS3 loop.
Point is, Telco's dont give a damn about data. They didnt 25 years ago nad they still dont because they have no clue how to do it right.
Crackers`n`Soup
As a ISP i agree, in part.
True every ISP(right up to the Tier 1's) over subscribe bandwidth. The main reasion for bit caps is bandwith is a like water or electricity.
You pay for what you use. People have been spoiled on 19.95(and less) all you can eat dial up. Why? Because it was(and still is) a great way
to give people a flat rate, wich everyone (majority) likes. I have more people going for my $50/mo accounts then i do my bit billed accounts. 70% or so of the people say they like the idea of the bit bill but absolutly wont got for a service they cant count on what the bill will be. Most if not all that 70% will save money in 18-24 months.
Many ISP's have tried the $XX/YY hour dialup accounts, most have given up on them. Few people want them and those that do have been online for a few years and know there online habits well.
Belive it or not, dial up still is the first stop for most people new to the internet. Because BW is so new, the stupidity of the ISP's, Its sold as a fat BW pipe thats always on. No one dreamed of bit caps 5 years ago. ISP's a waking up to broadband and its real cost, and user's dont like it. Every user that come's by askign aobut my service ask's why I chave bit caps and people in huston dont. I tell thme i want to stay in business. @Home is a example of what happens when you sell 2000-3000 of BW for $50 a month and NOT expect people to use it. Sorry for getting off topic. I had a point in the beginning, i think.
Crackers`n`Soup
Maybe 802.11 will be our savior?
Not Likely, 802.11/802.11a/802.11b just doesnt have the bandwidth. 11mbit at the radio, 5.5-6mbit
read data and less per customer thats on. Canopy on the other hand, can reach good DSL speeds(100-200KB(800-1.6mbit) and thats the first gen hardware, They have some nice PtP 2nd gen coming out and there is talk of allpying that to there PtMP line aswell.
802.11g will be a huge help, but it will stil lsuffr the degedation in performance every time you add a customer.
"However, maybe when pirating is 100% eliminated, microsoft windows XP will cost $30 and not $300."
BULLSHIT.
When pirating is 100% stoped they will be free to charge what they want, period. We ALL know what happens when there is only 1 supplier.
Crackers`n`Soup
No, a stamped cd can be made to have weak sectors. Its jsut a matter of hit`n`miss if they have a way to do it and not make a working cd, thus a coaster
If your going to try and be a wISP, join in the isp-planet.com forums. isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
WAP11's work for some people, not for others. They are a VERY bad pice of hardware, random lock up, droped connections, search the BAWUG.com lists' for more information. Dont add antenna's to hardware that it is not FCC certifide for. That only makes more noise(thats bad) in the 2.4 ISM and makes it harder for a real wISP to fuction. Also the FCC gets upset and makes rules that prevent us from offering better service. ala 802.11a is very well stamped for indoor use only.
If your going to be a service provider you have to have some form of QoS. WAP11's and cantenna's
might be nice and cheap, work well today, but what about tomorrow? the day after?? You install crap, you get crap back. I would not use a cantenna for a paying customer. I am working the business model out for doing a community isp right now. They live out where they have no chance of getting dsl, 25 miles or so from town.
I would rather pass them up then give them something thats little better then dialup. Remember 11b is much like a wired lan with a hub.
1 client talk's at a time, but the speed is much slower. 11b with cisco gear gets 6.5mbps. The cheaper hardware is lower, some doesnt do better then 2mbps. If you realy want to do this, get a consultant. Don't ruin it for the rest of us, keep it legal.
CrackersnSoup
Its people like you, that use non FCC compliant hardware that make it hard for real wISP's to cunduct business. Dont break the law, its hurts us all.
CrackersnSoup -- South West Texas wISP
WEP + MAc = 2% more secure then nothing at all.
WEP is crackable. period.
MAC is spoofable. Not much good there.
ONLY VPN and the like's will make a 802.11b
network secure in any way. If you want a secure network, run FHSS and NOT DSSS networks. FH, to date, has not been cracked, Reasion, you have 83mhz of bandwidth and you can hop to any 2(if i reemember right)mhz channel you want. there are 20
channels after spacing and ect. Assuming you jumped and never hit the same channel twice in one sequence, thats 2432902008176640000 differnet sequences, Assuming you ALWAYs start at channel 1.
Before you can get the ESSID and ect of a DH network you have to have the FH 100% correct. It take's VERY costly tools to do that, and even then its not easy and interference change's the hop sequence.
Cracked`Soup
If they dont want people 'deep linking' (is this like deep sea fishing?) then they should take steps to prevent it with portals or frame's. The internet is public space. Web servers are public space, If a link can take you anyplace on a web server then you should be allowed to go there. If you want to stop that then password the page or use other means to prevent access.
Why not let people edit there posts aftwards? Yes I know there is a "preview" button. If I dont see the error before i post, I most likely wont see it 30 seconds later. Thats me, You might be different.
Crackers`n`Soup
I dont remember GeOS very well.
What i do remember of it is that windows 1.0 looks very much like it. Maybe someone who is a bit older or has a copy could correct me on this.
Crackers`n`Soup
If you make anti-hydrogen you are able to store it in normal gas storage cyclinders. Same goes for any anti-atom. anti-matter only annihilate's when if touch's its couterpart. Simply(in theory) keep them apart.
If true full scale production was to happen, it would logicly be done in space, on a asteroid or the moon. Not that logic means that it WILL happen there.
Im looking for the discover mag article i read on this but it must be in storage.
Crackers`n`Soup
I am looking to make a wireless network in my town. Now one problem i have is producing a setuyp that is cheap enough for people here ot be interested. Its a small town and these people are not interested in spending $300+ for net access in most any form. One solution was to go wireless with a PC, PCMCIA -- PCI/ISA adapter, a few feet of LMR40 and a cheap(but effective) antenna. Make payments over 12 months it becomes workable. Now, the problem is if the hardware it located indoors then its cheap but cause's problems if they decide to not pay, keep the hardwre, ect. I a repo man, That is a good way to get shot here(People get shot over less here) Now, the way i solved that was to put the hardware out side in a HEMA unit, using PoE for power. That rasied the cost another $150. the ROI is looking very bad about now. Totaly price, over $700 per customer. What im tihnking is if i could "get away" with say 1 wireless node per transformer. I quick look out side saays thats at least 2 house's, 4 in some place's. My question is, will this run on linux/bsd? What does it take to make it?? There must be some way to make this secure. Like use a different network mask for each clinet. Like give the wireless node 1 IP per customer, netmask for 4 ip's, and force a logicly different network for each. Now, you and I can figure this out, but how many every day user's can? And even then a MAC filter could be setup for jsut a little more protection. Then use a VPN. Ok, Now poke holes, but remember, fill a few too.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes it does, 1.5Mbit/1.5Mbit
living above the shop helps too =)
Crackers`n`Soup
I too feel the same way. I run a small wISP and deal with piggyback software to much. Can we get Norton or such to FINELY label kazaa what it is(ie virus) and setup the def's for it?
Crackers`n`Soup
Armed with new data, human visitors may once again visit Earth's only natural satellite, this time to survey the scene and set up a permanent science outpost /. Just post a article about Earth having just gianed a 3rd satellite?? Would they not be "natural" since they were not put ther by man but by nature?(Or did God or Alien's do it?)
Hmm, Now that I think of it, a far off asteroid IS a good place for a "duck blind".
Um, Didnt
Crackers`n`Soup
As well as concrete was "lost" for 100 years or so
Crackers`n`Soup
Um, Er, We have that already. Just call and pay, they will give you 1 test per day(or is it a week?) been a year since I was there. They have test centers all over. I didnt do much "formal" traning and that was online via web course's from BMCC in Oregon. http://www.newhorizons.com/retail/ Crackers`n`Soup
Right untill the DDoS kiddies see your post
Crackers`n`Soup
If you can dig, do it. Run some cat5 or coax. Its cheap for both(I buy 1000ft spool's of cat5 for about $50 shipped) and i have had coax at $75 for a 1000ft spool(army surplus). Buy some conduit from HomeDepot or the like.
Crackers`n`Soup
when mesh routing becomes an open-source reality
There are a number of open source mesh protocol's
Mobile Mesh is one
someone can't just tune into your WET11 and monitor traffic
Wrong. Using any number of free tool's from the net you can sniff 11b with little to no trouble. WEP is crackable in a few days. There are patch's but not many people even turn on WEP so it still a moot point. 11b is insecure: Period.
Only running some kind of tunnel(VPN/SSH/Ect) is your data secure. People should assume that in the first place even on wired connection's.
DS systems are, by nature, made to be open and easily accesed. FH is no hackable like DS is. You have to know the exact hop sequence, If you dont then forget about it. Not that it can't be done, just it hasn't been done.
Do not forget that things like AP spoofing and AP tunneling are possible too.
Crackers`n`Soup
I fully agree. I am working on setting up a IRC server for everyone in town to do there, research of files, on. I explain it very carefully that the BW i charge for is what is used out to the 'net and not in town. They can use all the BW from each other they want. No one(but me) wants usenet access so i have not setup a server for that, yet. When i do it will be a caching server so it will handle wich groups to work with. I will throw a small 80G at it and they will like it or lump it =-)
Currently my bigest problem is 1 user. He is in for a rude awakening. The account he has is 256kbit up and down. 3G transfer/mo. $15 per GB after. In less then 3 days he has hit 1G.He is "only" using 1/2 of it at any one time. If he keeps it up he will pay for my T1 all by his self =-)
The customers i like are the older ones.They generaly do email and surfing with a few stock traders and ebay sellers. Once i get my proxy/dns server online ill be MUCH happier.(just lost a box to now known reasion)
I offer a firewall for $5/mo(bsd ipfw + dummynet)
and the local collage gives norton away free(for those who know) and i sell it for a good deal less then anyone else in town.
Crackers`n`Soup
I happen to have T1's from AT&T for my wISP. The problem with AT&T roilling out DS3's is not that they can not figure it out. Its that they don't want to. Period. They can't make much money on selling 1 or 2 DS3's out in BFE. They would rather pull a OC3 in and sell 5-10 DS3's. Yea, AT&T over sell's a 155mb line by 3-5 times. Take SBC, Im 1000 feet from there CO. They want 17K/mo for a DS3 loop, NO transport. Ok, fine, Let me put in a nice proxim wireless link. NO? Why not.. SBC wants a 13million insuance policy incase my hardware some how fry's theies. If i DO manage to become a CLEC and afford that insurance i can get the port in the CO(transport) for 2000/mo. Still no joy on a wireless link OR a resionable priced DS3 loop.
Point is, Telco's dont give a damn about data. They didnt 25 years ago nad they still dont because they have no clue how to do it right.
Crackers`n`Soup
You could run in any number of bands and not need any kind of HAM license. You will need FFA license and the like.
FCC no, FAA yes, Any tower, 200ft or taller, has to be registered with the FAA, Also if its within flight path's ectera Crackers`n`Soup
As a ISP i agree, in part. True every ISP(right up to the Tier 1's) over subscribe bandwidth. The main reasion for bit caps is bandwith is a like water or electricity. You pay for what you use. People have been spoiled on 19.95(and less) all you can eat dial up. Why? Because it was(and still is) a great way to give people a flat rate, wich everyone (majority) likes. I have more people going for my $50/mo accounts then i do my bit billed accounts. 70% or so of the people say they like the idea of the bit bill but absolutly wont got for a service they cant count on what the bill will be. Most if not all that 70% will save money in 18-24 months. Many ISP's have tried the $XX/YY hour dialup accounts, most have given up on them. Few people want them and those that do have been online for a few years and know there online habits well. Belive it or not, dial up still is the first stop for most people new to the internet. Because BW is so new, the stupidity of the ISP's, Its sold as a fat BW pipe thats always on. No one dreamed of bit caps 5 years ago. ISP's a waking up to broadband and its real cost, and user's dont like it. Every user that come's by askign aobut my service ask's why I chave bit caps and people in huston dont. I tell thme i want to stay in business. @Home is a example of what happens when you sell 2000-3000 of BW for $50 a month and NOT expect people to use it. Sorry for getting off topic. I had a point in the beginning, i think. Crackers`n`Soup
Maybe 802.11 will be our savior? Not Likely, 802.11/802.11a/802.11b just doesnt have the bandwidth. 11mbit at the radio, 5.5-6mbit read data and less per customer thats on. Canopy on the other hand, can reach good DSL speeds(100-200KB(800-1.6mbit) and thats the first gen hardware, They have some nice PtP 2nd gen coming out and there is talk of allpying that to there PtMP line aswell. 802.11g will be a huge help, but it will stil lsuffr the degedation in performance every time you add a customer.
MAybe Dal.net is not being hit my packet kiddies...
"However, maybe when pirating is 100% eliminated, microsoft windows XP will cost $30 and not $300." BULLSHIT. When pirating is 100% stoped they will be free to charge what they want, period. We ALL know what happens when there is only 1 supplier. Crackers`n`Soup
No, a stamped cd can be made to have weak sectors.
Its jsut a matter of hit`n`miss if they have a way to do it and not make a working cd, thus a coaster
If your going to try and be a wISP, join in the isp-planet.com forums. isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com WAP11's work for some people, not for others. They are a VERY bad pice of hardware, random lock up, droped connections, search the BAWUG.com lists' for more information. Dont add antenna's to hardware that it is not FCC certifide for. That only makes more noise(thats bad) in the 2.4 ISM and makes it harder for a real wISP to fuction. Also the FCC gets upset and makes rules that prevent us from offering better service. ala 802.11a is very well stamped for indoor use only. If your going to be a service provider you have to have some form of QoS. WAP11's and cantenna's might be nice and cheap, work well today, but what about tomorrow? the day after?? You install crap, you get crap back. I would not use a cantenna for a paying customer. I am working the business model out for doing a community isp right now. They live out where they have no chance of getting dsl, 25 miles or so from town. I would rather pass them up then give them something thats little better then dialup. Remember 11b is much like a wired lan with a hub. 1 client talk's at a time, but the speed is much slower. 11b with cisco gear gets 6.5mbps. The cheaper hardware is lower, some doesnt do better then 2mbps. If you realy want to do this, get a consultant. Don't ruin it for the rest of us, keep it legal. CrackersnSoup
Its people like you, that use non FCC compliant hardware that make it hard for real wISP's to cunduct business. Dont break the law, its hurts us all. CrackersnSoup -- South West Texas wISP
WEP + MAc = 2% more secure then nothing at all. WEP is crackable. period. MAC is spoofable. Not much good there. ONLY VPN and the like's will make a 802.11b network secure in any way. If you want a secure network, run FHSS and NOT DSSS networks. FH, to date, has not been cracked, Reasion, you have 83mhz of bandwidth and you can hop to any 2(if i reemember right)mhz channel you want. there are 20 channels after spacing and ect. Assuming you jumped and never hit the same channel twice in one sequence, thats 2432902008176640000 differnet sequences, Assuming you ALWAYs start at channel 1. Before you can get the ESSID and ect of a DH network you have to have the FH 100% correct. It take's VERY costly tools to do that, and even then its not easy and interference change's the hop sequence. Cracked`Soup
If they dont want people 'deep linking' (is this like deep sea fishing?) then they should take steps to prevent it with portals or frame's. The internet is public space. Web servers are public space, If a link can take you anyplace on a web server then you should be allowed to go there. If you want to stop that then password the page or use other means to prevent access.
Why not let people edit there posts aftwards? Yes I know there is a "preview" button. If I dont see the error before i post, I most likely wont see it 30 seconds later. Thats me, You might be different. Crackers`n`Soup
I dont remember GeOS very well. What i do remember of it is that windows 1.0 looks very much like it. Maybe someone who is a bit older or has a copy could correct me on this. Crackers`n`Soup
If you make anti-hydrogen you are able to store it in normal gas storage cyclinders. Same goes for any anti-atom. anti-matter only annihilate's when if touch's its couterpart. Simply(in theory) keep them apart. If true full scale production was to happen, it would logicly be done in space, on a asteroid or the moon. Not that logic means that it WILL happen there. Im looking for the discover mag article i read on this but it must be in storage. Crackers`n`Soup
Ok, This is just a idea im working on.
I am looking to make a wireless network in my town. Now one problem i have is producing a setuyp that is cheap enough for people here ot be interested. Its a small town and these people are not interested in spending $300+ for net access in most any form. One solution was to go wireless with a PC, PCMCIA -- PCI/ISA adapter, a few feet of LMR40 and a cheap(but effective) antenna. Make payments over 12 months it becomes workable. Now, the problem is if the hardware it located indoors then its cheap but cause's problems if they decide to not pay, keep the hardwre, ect. I a repo man, That is a good way to get shot here(People get shot over less here) Now, the way i solved that was to put the hardware out side in a HEMA unit, using PoE for power. That rasied the cost another $150. the ROI is looking very bad about now. Totaly price, over $700 per customer. What im tihnking is if i could "get away" with say 1 wireless node per transformer. I quick look out side saays thats at least 2 house's, 4 in some place's. My question is, will this run on linux/bsd? What does it take to make it?? There must be some way to make this secure. Like use a different network mask for each clinet. Like give the wireless node 1 IP per customer, netmask for 4 ip's, and force a logicly different network for each. Now, you and I can figure this out, but how many every day user's can? And even then a MAC filter could be setup for jsut a little more protection. Then use a VPN. Ok, Now poke holes, but remember, fill a few too.