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Discarded AT&T Microwave Bunkers For Sale
InitZero writes "American Tower is selling nearly 2000 old AT&T Long Line microwave locations that are no longer needed thanks to fiber. These towers -- spaced about 50 miles in every direction -- and their associated bunkers were designed to withstand World War III. The average location (find one near you) has two acres of land, 1,800 square feet worth of bunker and a tower of 200 feet. Some locations still have their hardware (60KW generator, microwave feedlines, equipment racks, feed horns, etc.) All this for an average price of just $25,000. If you're a ham radio operator, building a data center or just looking for a place to put your wireless access point, these locations look awesome."
No replies yet, and it's slashdotted already?!?
This sounds pretty cool. Who here has an extra $25,000 lying around?
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
This is a damn good deal. 200 feet towers cost about 25000 by themselves, not just the materials, but the labor in erecting one... on a 200 foot tower, at 5 watts, in the 2 meter band, you are looking at 100 mile range on a homemade 1/4 wave clothes hanger antenna.... Not bad at all.
In many parts of the US, it gets very cold in the winter. The cold is even worse if you're working on a tower - they tend to be in high, exposed places due to their nature. This means more wind, lower temperatures, etc. Legend has it that tower crew would sometimes crawl into the microwave horns for a few seconds/minutes to warm up (for the same reasons you use a microwave to heat your dinner). That was all well and good, until one day a tech fell asleep in the warm, cozy horn.
oops.
Not one near me :-(
That doesn't include the land, does it?
I used to picnic next to these microwave towers so I could have a hot meal. Now I can't. Well at least my skin rash isn't as bad now.
The freeloaders here would rather continue wardriving and mooching off other people's wireless access.
Oh, and FP.
Now that is a great weekend retreat for the /.'er who has everything!
slashdotted already?!
8 J: www.americantower.com/OASISPublic/SiteSearchADO/de fault.asp+%22%2Bwww.americantower.%2Bcom/OasisPubl ic/SiteSearchADO/%22&hl=en&start=1&ie=UTF- 8
http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:lletWv9j9h
eleven plus two / twelve plus one
Sounds like a great place to set up a new "Lone Justice" squad!
Some google cache hunting reveals that you can get the complete list in Excel format from... http://atcsdmaftp01.americantower.com/excelReports /NationalSiteList.xls. Now that "I got Mine!" I'll share the URL with you. :-)
WTF? Slashdot says I'm missing a subject or a body? I suppose that is the lameness-required filter that made me add this stupid paragraph.
the "find one near you" link is dead. either slashdotted or otherwise.
I don't think the electronics of such a complex system, especially one designed to capture signals, could withstand the EMP effect of a nuclear explosion 5 miles away. Vacuum tubes are some of the only "advanced" electronics that can withstand anything, let alone transistors. The EMP effect was only well understood in the 1960s and later, a bit after these towers were built.
Oh, and imagine a nationwide Beowulf cluster of these. [Ducks moderators]
Awesome! If we all got one of these we cauld create and independet microwave network. Of course you'd have to get transmitter licences and stuff, but it would be kewl. Oh yeah, and I'd have to move to the States too :)
The internet (and swelling need for bandwidth) kills off the old technology, making old bunker locations obsolete.
Meanwhile, the internet (and swelling need for bandwidth) makes bunker technology highly desirable.
Thousands of years of evolution and we still can't get this predilection holes in the ground.
Sure. they may be a good place for a wireless accesspoint but hell for 25k you could probly work out a way to get more locations.
Its fried and there is not even a comment...so here is the Google Cache. Sorry no link to the list of sites :(
Google Cache
I was an Inspector on these in Northern Calif. I monitored the construction for a private firm. Concrete pours and steel, etc.
They are hell-for-stout, no doubt. You could wipe out everything above ground in the US, and still get a dial tone. Most are in remote locations, naturally, and include fuel storage tanks (propane) and blast shielding. Just the ticket for anyone looking for the ultimate private bomb shelter.
It appears these bunkers will NOT protect you from the fury of Slashdot.
Assuming there was a nuclear holocaust/World War III, how would a 500 ft microwave tower resist being blown down by a nuclear blast? Even if there is the bunker, the transmission effectiveness will be effectively zero without the tower.
I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
Am I going to need that 3840x2400 monitor just to view these pics? How convienient that they were announced so close together...
I have fond memories of spending a strange summer night in the vicinity of one of these situated on a mountain pass when I was in high school. I'm just glad my fiends didn't climb the tower durring the gathering thundersorm.
Even if someone were to get their hands on one of these sites, wouldn't the upkeep cost outweigh the benefits of stronger ham radio signals?
Also, wouldn't there be some kind of FCC regulation regarding what you could do with these towers?
It sounds like a moneysink to me.
oh no! Terrorists have attacked the slashdot comment system!
Seems to me it's best to have them both:
Let F = Food high in fiber. Let M = Microwave.
F = Bad
F + M = Good
One of the links shows the microwave horns painted pink. Anyone know why this would be done? The site (http://www.drgibson.com/towers/frank_schmid.html) suggests cosmetic reasons, which might not be far off as I've seen cell towers made to look like trees in suburban neiborhoods.
Could it have been to block/filter fallout?
1800 square feet? Larger then many studio apartments. Heck larger then most studio apartments.
I say setup a decent 'net connection and become a digital hermit. (e-hermit?)
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Interesting. I'd like to put my house on one of those things. Think about it...a bomb shelter, and a radio tower to boot! All for only 25 G's. Nice deal.
AT LAST! a location for my echelon spoofing site. ;)
Just raise the taxes on crack.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there laws against Joe Schmoe owning something capable of generating signals like that? The bunker and land, sure, but doesn't the FCC have a problem with some weirdo buying a tower and broadcasting Eminem on all frequencies?
Someone please mod the parent into oblivion. I believe that is the active site list, not the surplus site list.
can anyone corroborate this?
I suppose it would make a cheap nerd house. perfect if you're the kind of guy who supposes that women are turned on by Darth Vader t-shirts. Not awfully practical, though. If you want a house in the middle of nowhere, find a 500-resident ghost town, in, say, South Dakota, where they go for $6k. Think about it--a vacation home on a grad student's salary. :-)
Something like this, a UK nuclear bunker which was auctioned in July. No better place to store important information, might have some problems with the wireless transmission though. (:
Ladies, form queue here -->
...but still more than I can afford. Plus, who wants to sit in there getting cancer? I suppose you could set up an ISP business and hire someone else to watch the servers for you.
-Miles
Fuzzy
I've been inside of several of them and they're simply awesome and must have cost a fortune to build and maintain. They have living quarters and water tanks. The equipment mostly ran off of banks of single cell (2 volt) batteries that were kept charged by utility power and generator. They used klystron transmitters I understand. Another cold war relic made obsolete I guess..but I can't help but be nostalgic for just a bit.. Can you?
Mark Foster has another really nice Long Lines site that includes a table that lists many Long Lines facilites in many states, describes the equipment installed there and has photos of some of the facilities. He also provides the technical specifications for the construction of these sites, as well as photos from tour he took of a still-operating one.
is measured in lb/sq. inch. The reason the blast is so damaging to buildings is because of wall size magnifies the force to a few tons of pressure on the side of the wall. The towers if you notice, are open, thin bars that present little surface area for the blast to contact. What is exposed is well anchored.
-
Guess I'm not the only one to dream of owning a nuke-resistant bunker.
Here's the Google cache of the site map to salivate over...
Good news if you're back east or in the Bay Area, bad news otherwise.
Say, wonder if Mrs. Moody would mind running a home daycare out of one of these?
No Longer a Menace to Society.
Alexandria Morrigan born 2/22/01 l. 20.5in wt. 7 lbs. 5 oz.
Just fill the microwave horn with popcorn and fire-up that 60kW generator.
What's the point behind having bunkers here which can withstand nuclear attacks?
The obvious answer would be that they wanted to ensure that the communications infrastructure would survive, but that doesn't make sense -- the towers would be destroyed quite easily, and without the towers, all the equipment protected in the bunkers would be useless anyway.
Am I missing something here?
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
It seems AT&T had a considerable investment in long distance buried coaxial cable. Apparently there was a pair of these cable laid a few miles away from here as a contractor was going through a few years back digging them back up and recovering them.
As I recall from the local paper's article the cables were probably 4 to 6 inches in diameter and were then encased in lead. I also recall that they were buried several feet deep, at least deeper than water lines and regular phone cable gets buried around here.
From my youth I recall an AT&T Long Lines bunker a few miles south of US 36 on US 75 north of Topeka, KS. I believe these cables went through there as they were on an east/west run through northern Kansas. Where the ultimate terminating points were would be a good exercise.
Many old microwave sites are still standing around these parts. The tower lights and painting are still maintained. It's interesting that it apparently cost more to disassemble them than to leave them stand.
"Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result."
on top of the bunker instead of a dull microwave tower. You can power the coil off your bonus 60kW generator, and lurk in the bunker.
Good for isolationists, not many visitors will get past the flaming lightning bolts of doom. Or invest in a network of coils (one every 50 miles) and see if you can block out Seinfeld with the RFI.
I'd link to Lightning on Demand/Electrum Project (in NZ, raay) (http://www.lod.org) but they seem to be broken.
Am I the only one thinking of the possibility of buying 2 within signal distance of each other, one in a city where broadband is actually affordable, and one out in the boonies or small cities where at best people get 53K dialup and using it to set up a broadband ISP? $50,000 initial investment + permits is pretty steep still, though.
Hell, or get paid for offering an alternative route for congested hops.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
"associated bunkers were designed to withstand World War III.."
How was this ever tested?
would this make a great fallout shelter, but you could heat up all of your cans of food with all that microwave goodness.
World War II involved the dropping of "The Bomb". The destructive force of the atomic bomb completely destroyed entire cities.
World War III (for those not in the know, it hasn't started yet...) will probably involve much more powerful weapons than even the atomic bomb. Chances are this structure won't be able to withstand the force of this kind of weaponry.
And if it does still stand after a bomb, chances are no one in your 50 mile area will be alive to hear your ham radio station.
because it's funny
To quote Strong Bad, "too much of a good thing is an awesome thing. But too much of an awesome thing is ... umm ... really, really dumb."
This is almost too much of an awesome thing. But it's awesome nonetheless.
a story my teacher told me back in school about a tech at the Tokamak Fusion Chamber in Princeton, nj.. guy went in, someone (oops) turned it on, ridiculously strong magnetic field (used to drive fusion process of hydrogen and isolate fusioned material from metal walls) took all this guy's hemoglobin right out through his pores. stupid liar
Heck, 2 acres is a decent plot of land for a house. Plus you got a generator! How can you lose? Use the tower to put an access point up and you can have wireless all over your land, and charge neighbors for access :-)
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
I reported the error on Sourceforge. Damn slashcode ;)
Well it's good to know that I can continue playing Quake 3 after nuclear winter kills off all other life. With all that space I can live for a long time, and I wouldn't want to die of boredom.
A friend who owns a paging company just bought one of these. I tagged along during the negotiation and purchase. They are indeed, as a previous poster put it, "hell for stout." The scale of the tower, building and microwave cones makes the whole thing seem like a toy. It's just that weird. The towers are huge, this one is a 100 ft free-standing, 30 ft on a side IIRC with 25 foot tall microwave cones at the peak and associated waveguide down into the concrete buildings. This is a smaller installation, but still has huge power service and infrastructure, neat-o VW diesel inline 6 backup generator and enormous battery supply (the size of a truck or so), later added hardline to the top, it was a hell of a deal (more so considering how difficult towers are to get up these days).
What really boggles my mind is the BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars that went into building these things in the 60's. They are truly incredible, inside and out. Someone decided that there WOULD be long distance (and there was).
This sig washed every five years whether it needs it or not!
Now I and my friends can LARP the userfriendly.org story arc where they moved into a missile silo!
Yes!
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
so can i post yet?.. oooh ,I get to choose what format this is it.. thats a start...
So could I hook them all up, then focus them at a single point to cook my hot pockets in a matter of a few seconds?
yee scurvy sea dogs are no match for yee slashdot effect.
please mod me a troll, because instead of posting something about the article, i like to talk bout how a server will be temporary unavailable due to overwhelming traffic.
I have been trying since before there were even replies in the comments section and I have yet to see anything more then the splash page sans images (via Google Cache). Anyone have any idea where these towers are? Are there any in Texas? The wife and I are looking for a country house and this would make a hell of a start. ;)
When will people learn? Don't get me wrong I am not saying a *nix box can not magically handle more load then it is designed for, but why is it ALWAYS these crappy IIS boxes that have intersting things on them and then get /.'d? Oh well, they will probably just beef up the site with even more Winblows boxes from their friendly Winblows distributer. Not to mention the page code, crappy ASP and VB script, give me an f/cking break.
with tower and generator for my Tesla coil experiments.
Why would the power need to be turned up? Signals are signals right? We don't turn the power up on our Cat 5 because we're talk to Slashdot and eBay at the same time...
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
complying with all the faa regs will cost ya, and don't ever let the blinky lights burn out. plus - greedy local municipalities see a revenue source in towers, they're starting to tax them. they think every tower belongs to a rich cell company.
Luckily my IMAX monitor is arriving tomorrow.
http://www.xemu.org/~mxemu/NationalSiteList.xls
Could a structure like this be benificial in any reasonable way to set up an independant network to preserve the flow of information between slashdotters by hosting slashdot.. if the corporatized net bans /.
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
So, we all hear about Wifi, local bands, high speed internet connection not available in most parts of the US....
...8)
And now we see offered something we could use...
Somebody makes the caculations for me, but a 60KW generator,equipment racks, feed horns, etc. could be used to make... a WIFI Internet Coverage, nation wide...
Now, a 60KW transmitter could cover some range...
If not WIFI, their is definetly the possibility to use another tech to spread the signal... and to use cheap transmiters to connect to the net wherever you are....
So, It's 50 Million US$ for the towers, say another 50 millions to re-equip them all with blastingly powerfull WIFI transmitters and radar cupollas to catch users signals...
I seem to remember that people used to invest Billions in Internet backbones... and not even for a national one...
OK, I hereby Copyright this idea !!! You can join me in this joint venture, I bring the Ideas, U bring the capital, and we'll offer the US a decent national High Speed connection network in the Go
Please contact me under this message if you have 100 Millions US in capital, and a wish to strike it richer 8)
See me on Fortunes, Guys 8)))
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
We don't turn the power up on our Cat 5 because we're talk to Slashdot and eBay at the same time...
Damn! So that's what I've been doing wrong!
Come to think of it, did these microwave transmissions have any encryption over the decades they were in operation? Were people able to sit on a ridge and collect credit card numbers and other dirt from the hundreds of phone calls flying through the air?
World War III Simulator but had to take it off the market due to the present geopolitical climate.
DNA just wants to be free...
From local (Aussie) reports, as well as those
from a remote centre (Coober Pedy, SA -
also in
Just blow in some air (for life support); a lot
of your heat will come up from the Earth...
some claim to be enjoying 20 degrees (Celcius)
all day - even in the Winter!
Sell the 60 KWh generator, invest in a com-
bination of wind & solar energy systems.
Sounds great for Radio Hams as well as
would-be wireless I'netters!
Why not buy them & fix them up for use as
affordable Geek Hostels (where is the IYH
&/or AYH when we need 'em?
New organisation: IGH - Int'l Geek Hostels
Seems like a perfect opportunity for amateur radio clubs to line up to purchase new facilities. In addition, these things seem great for building out a high-bandwidth microwave infrastructure to give hams VOIP.
Great place for an APRS node, ATV repeater, or even just a regular old 2m or 440 repeater.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Back in the olden days of satellite communications, all satellites operated on the "C" band. The bane of C band was "TI". TI stood for terrestrial interference...and these towers were the culprits! As a secondary service (these towers were the primary service), satellites were limited to very low powers (5-10 watts), so C band dishes had to be very large to pick up such feeble signals from space. Now that these are being decommissioned, maybe, just maybe, C band's potential can finally be realized. I can think of many uses of this slice of 2-4 Ghz spectrum...though the Govt. is probably already salivating at the prospect of another spectrum auction.
We don't turn the power up on our Cat 5 because we're talk to Slashdot and eBay at the same time...
You aren't transmitting over 200 miles of free space either.
More calls, more modulation, possibly *MUCH* higher average power.
Thr Google cache *does* have the picture and working links. The only problem with using the links is the paret site is overloaded.
Maybe you need to update yourself on what Google provides now.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/cooked.htm
Enjoy
Just wondering if anyone had more links and info about the microwave sites actually being for sale.
Somebody posted an XLS document listing all their sites, both active and inactive. I graphed the data out and listed the geographical location of the inactive sites. Go to http://aaron.cyberfreakout.com/inactivebell.htm to view it.
I would imagine that they're trying to sell the inactive ones...
The FCC won't grant a license for anything on an unregistered tower. If it's got a transmitter, the FAA will regulate it. Depending on where things are tower and airport-wise, silly things have to be lit according to the geniuses at the FAA. Things like a 20-foot pole surrounded by 50-foot trees, with a 30-foot streetlamp 40 feet away. And a 30-foot water tank surrounded by 60-foot trees, situated 100 yards away from 4 150-foot lit towers. And then there's the painting requirements. I'm sure they make sense to somebody with severe brain damage somewhere. And then there's the EPA and the environmental impact statements required for adding anything to the site, like an antenna. And if you're near a populated area, the professional worry-worts will sue you for imagined ailments caused by the nasty RF radiation. And the local tax man will expect you to help fill the coffers, after all, you've gotta be a rich cellular company if you have a tower. RF used to be fun.
I've been quite interested in abandoned missile silos for some time...and microwave sites seem equally as appealing. However, I live in Canada (eh?) and not the U.S. Anyone know of any leads for similar properties up here in the Great White North?
TIA.
-psyco
Selling a 3 Silo, 65k sq/ft 1 Mile Nuke Rated site, Near Denver... a Tour of a site 5 miles away Missle Silo Tour This site is the same design except that it hasn't been vandalized, has power, and is not flooded (except silo's) Comes with complete Plans Serious Inquiries Only misslesilo@lasers.org Must be sold before end of September, 2002 also 15k sq/ft underground storage at another hardened facility $2.50/ sqft.
Back in the old days at Tech, we'd fill up the picnic jugs with beer from Bob's keg, and go drive the back roads until we got stuck or ran out of beer. Sometimes we'd park by the fences of these places, climb over, and climb the tower.
The best one was just north of Truth or Consequences; it was two towers,
about 150 feet tall, about 20 feet apart, connected by a catwalk. We were all too afraid to walk across (only 2 jugs, and 3 or 4 of us) but we did crawl across. The perspective of looking down from up there at a Datsun pickup (I did say, old days) was truly boggling.
Technically an H-bomb, which uses fusion instead of fission, is more powerful. If you are curious about what would happen if your city was nuked, PBS has a blast mapper page.
we can rebuild this sig. we have the technology
I'm sorry...north west of Sacto. Located just outside Dunnigan, in Yolo County, north of Woodland, Calif. At that time, it was really in the boonies, but today, I'm sure civilization has closed the gap.
200 ft... cool... you could have your own personal BASE jump tower!
The Official Steve Ballmer Webpage
There's actually one of these jobbies in the UK that someone has bought and opened to the public. I visited two years ago and it's really fascinating. This particular one is diguised as a cottage (with a suspicious looking free-standing antenae in the garden. There were still the old computers (severely old), gas masks etc.
I wouldn't fancy living there though. The water tanks and sanitation system looked questionable and it lacked any kind of homeliness. The prime minister's quarters was the best in there and was still rank.
Powered by onion juice.
::bends over, pulls down pants::
Remember, you're at Slashdot.
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Read "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Rhodes. The hard part is getting ahold of weapons grade uranium or plutonium. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Iran or Libya had atomic bombs.
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Since AT&T/Bell used to be a monopoly, did the government help pay for and construct these sites? If so, how does a private company end up selling these?
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Actually, the power to the feed horn remains constant whether there is one circuit in use or the system is at capacity. The radios used for analog microwave utilize Frequency Modulation, FM. The output power of an FM transmitter does not change as modulation is applied. The carrier deviation depands on two factors of the modulating signal, its amplitude and its frequency. The amplitude of the modulating signal determines how far above or below the center frequency the FM carrier will swing. In 2-way radio this is allowed to be a maximum of +- 5kHz. The frequency of the modulating signal determines how fast the FM carrier will swing between these two extremes.
In an analog microwave system the transmitters are setup in such a way so as to take varying channel usage into account and so they will not exceed the allowed bandwidth when operating at capacity. Therefore adjustments of signal levels on the baseband frequencies is critical. Now, if you look at the baseband (which is nothing more than an evenly spaced set of single sideband AM signals stacked from 4kHz to some design extreme) as more channels come into use the envelope of the baseband gains in amplitude (power) for each channel that comes into use. The result is that the FM carrier in the microwave transmitter deviates more and its frequency of deviation will increase as well.
The effect is that the power density of the RF envelope will decrease as the baseband reaches channel capacity, but this is already accounted for in the initial setup of the radio and design of the RF path between sites. Now, given that AT&T was using up to 50 mile (80 km) paths and our system is using paths about 30% to 60% of that figure, it's quite possible AT&T's system employed variable RF power to maintain a certain power density.
With the equipment in use by the company I work for the output power of the radios is constant, typically 1 or 5 Watts at 6 GHz depending on the path. Also, our system is designed for a maximum of 600 channels considerably less than the AT&T Long Lines system, I believe.
"Insanity is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result."
Maybe some of that fiber should be run to whatever machine is hosting the website.
M@
Krispy Cream is people
AT&T Long Lines Places and Routes contains a list of Maps, Diagrams and Lists relating to the AT&T Long Line Bunkers.
I am actually considering to purchase some property. Any idea if these bunkers could be lived in? If so, to whom or which department I talk about buying them? I tried to use the site, but it friggin hosed!!! Any idea/input would be appricated. Thanks
NO! NO! Please don't mod me, I'm too young to die a troll. *click* Oh the pain, the pain...
http://web.archive.org/web/20010606162657/www.drgi bson.com/towers/
nohup rm -rf ~/. >& zen &
Let me give you a little VB example, say a little VB script to take customer data and run a search, probably going to be at least 1 meg, while the equiv in perl is probably going to be at most 2k. They are going to use about the same in system resources. VB is a resource PIG, perl is no where near the PIG VG is. So if the system gets 1000 users and mister VB proggy requires 1 meg of memory but mister computer only has 512 meg, well you will be swapping something fierce. I agree a lot has to do with the sheer number of users, but take it from someone who works with web computers daily, Windows/IIS/VB/ASP they royally suck they are not really appropriote in the whole web sector (but if you want to belive all your Microsoft propoganda feel free), they are not even remotely effcient. Just go take a look at the size of a simple VB program then write the same thing in perl or C.
on where you're delivering it. Iran and Libya (and Israel) already have missiles that can reach most of the mid-east (and in the case of Libya, Europe). They also have aircraft that can carry the weapons. They may not have intercontinental capability, but then they don't particularly need it.
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logic I could have been going up in every shuttle mission since 1981.
A better ham radio link for amateur radio types:
www.rac.ca
Pardon the spelling. I just started Grad school at the university of new haven. As I walked to the 50's building that my class is in, there was a door on the back that said AT&T "Long Line"...I wondered what that meant. And here is Slashdot telling me about it. Wish that website was up so I could find out if that building is really next to one of these things.
Blar.
It's iHermet, dummy!
I always wanted something like this since I was a little kid and saw people moving into the abandoned Atlas missle silos or people living in caves. In the middle of no where would be cool, I have been living in the city for decades and it is getting old. I wanna get back to nature Green Acres style.
Hey I got a diesel VW car and a diesel generator at my country house, both have been running for YEARS with nothing more then a regular oil change. Diesel engines are built for that crap, to basically run forever with minimal maintance (hence they have no spark plugs and don't need tune ups like crappy gas powered gensets).
This sounds even better than a Missile Silo
First off, it's cheaper.
Secondly, these are more conveniently located
Lastly, it looks like there's a lot more of these than missile silos.
For $25k, it's a cheap way to get a couple of acres with some improvments.
Often in Error, Never in Doubt.
I stated my question poorly. What I meant was that like the railroads, private companies were given a lot of assistance by the government. In many cased entire projects are funded with public money.Many under govenment contract. If this is the case with any of these hardened structures, shouldn't the public get somthing back?
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
I am talking about compile perl buddy, it is a HUGE memory pig, and a space PIG with all those VB runtime libraries. VB is for people who can't program who want to do web stuff. The fact that a successful site runs on IIS/VB/ASP means nothing other then the site designers weren't thinking ahead adn wanted a quick fix, it is the site content that is making the money. My whole point isn't IIS/VB/ASP won't make money on the web, my point is it isn't a GOOD web solution (can we say security issues, performance issues etc etc etc), and compiled VB makes for some HUGE executable memory hogs. And why would you run perl on a IIS box? run it native buddy, in Unix.
/.'s not happening everyday, you are right, but you SHOULD be prepared for them and the number one thing to do is NOT RUN IIS ;)
As for
Sounds like 1/3 of a U-boat's engine room!
$#!^ happens, but why does it always have to happen to me???
congested hops
... argle,argle
congest-ed hopppppppssss
Intel transfer the difficult from Hadware to software, for get more power, programmer need more technology. -- chinaitn
If a tech. was brought in after some nukes had been dropped, he might well BE blind!
$#!^ happens, but why does it always have to happen to me???
I took the Excel list of all of the sites and pushed it into a data mapping program based on latitude and longitude. The following results I thought odd:
- There are 15 in the middle of the Atlantic
- There are 5 in Mauritania
- There's even one in northern Mali
Talk about your far-reaching communications network!
- Freed
"Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love." -Turkish Proverb
Can you imagine... a Beowulf cluster of extinct alien civilizations leaving behind Beowulf clusters?
Given that wind resistance for a given surface area increases exponentially (I think... been a long time since physics class), that 1000mph figure is astounding.
Also this: "Above ground structure (microwave and troposcatter antennas) require at least two thirds of the structure to be below grade to prevent tilting or rotation". Does that mean these 200ft towers are rooted 400ft deep?
"Luck is the residue of design" --Branch Rickey
If you are trying to get a list of sites, please feel free to contact me at sites@americantower.com. Thanks JR
Or for that matter a shipping container on a ship works just fine and leaves no return address.
What if we all purchased them all, and used them to create our own backbone, then not have to deal with junk.
sure, it's a huge undertaking, but an interesting thought. A philanthopist could do a lot for net privacy if they purchased these and held them so that we can build out the technology to have our own private, non snooped backbone.
there are only about 200-300 towers for sale, and they are the ones that have been designated as "surplus" towers. the list that was posted in one of the comments on here listed some several thousand towers. that list is all the towers nationally, but like i said there are only about 200-300 for sale.
After expressing interest in two sites, I received this email response:
u blic%20Reports/Marketing/AvailableSitesList.xls
From: Ross Elder
To: 'John Hoffman'
Subject: RE: Sites of interest
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:44:03 -0400
Please note that the message posted yesterday on Slash Dot is incorrect.
American Tower Corporation has only a limited number of Surplus towers for
sale that can be accessed by clicking "Sites For Sale" on our home page.
These are the only towers that are for sale. Please also note that these
Surplus sites are sold on a strictly "as is-where is", all cash basis.
If the site you are inquiring about is not on the "Sites For Sale" list,
then it is not for sale.
If you are interested in a Surplus site, please contact me via email.
If you are having difficulty accessing our website, please try again later
as we were experiencing technical difficulties earlier today.
Thanks,
Ross Elder
Senior VP/Development
American Tower Corporation
The actual list of available sites can be downloaded at:
http://www.americantower.com/acweb/ATCSDMAREP02/P
The following is a reply (auto-generated, I think) when I sent an e-mail to the inquiries address.
/. in my original email.
"Please note that the message postedyesterdayon Slash Dot is incorrect. American Tower Corporation has onlya limited number of Surplus towers for sale that can be accessed by clicking "Sites For Sale" on our home page. These are the only towers that are for sale. Please also note that these Surplussites are sold on a strictly "as is-where is", all cashbasis.
If the site you are inquiringabout is not on the "Sites For Sale" list, then it is not for sale.
If you are interested in a Surplus site, please contact me via email.
Ifyou are having difficulty accessing our website, please try againlateras wewere experiencing technical difficulties earlier today.
Thanks,
XXXX XXXXX
Senior VP/Development
American Tower Corporation
Keep in mind that I DID NOT mention
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
These towers ran with main beam ERP's (effective radiated powers) in the tens of thousands of watts. C band satellite transponders run 5-10 (yes that's five to ten) watts. The satellites were about 30,000 miles away as the crow flies compared to one of these towers being maybe 10-20 miles away. Trust me, there's enough RF scatter from one of these towers to make C band satellite reception almost impossible even if you're 180 degrees off the main beam.
They probably would not have been slashdotted if the original poster had given the right information.
Only a small number of those sites are for sale. The map and search is for ALL sites. It appears that they rent space and/or offer other services at the other sites.
If you look down toward the bottom of the page, there is a link for "Sites for Sale". However, that doesn't work right now, nor do most of the features on this page.
Probably because they got slashdotted by people wanting to know how to buy sites that aren't for sale...
i hate to rain on your parade, but...
if you find a bargain from american tower and you seriously considering buying one of these wonderful structures for something like a ham radio or broadband isp site, make sure you know what you'll be paying every year after the sale.
even if you pick one of these beasts up extraordinarily cheap, like for say, $25,000, your local tax assessor may still value it for a quarter million because other cell towers in the county may have recently sold for that amount. that may mean you're on the hook for a couple/few thousand a year in taxes.
then think about insurance... what will you do when some drunken idiot climbs your 250-ft tower, falls off, and kills himself? (believe me, these remote places are the types of place that high schoolers seek out for their weekend activities...) when the family sues you into next year, you had better been paying your premiums on a $2,000,000 liability insurance policy... there's another couple thousand a year.
then think about maintenance... that strobe at the top of the tower needs to be monitored on a daily basis and maintained... the tower will need to be inspected every few years... etc...
sure, one could try to offset his costs by finding a lessee, but if these suckers were money makers, american tower wouldn't be selling one to you on the cheap...
Public spending on technologically advanced systems, is necessary to the continuation of advanced industrial society. The "Defence" excuse is the easiest to make.
It's all in The New Industrial State - J K Galbraith.
* * Always question "the National Interest" - 9 times out of 10 it is a cover for evil
I remember growing up near a mysterious building off of Rt. 206 in Roxbury New Jersey. Acutally all we could see was the top of the concrete roof. We called it the "bunker" because nobody really knew what it was. Well...it turns out to be a former backup operations site for AT&T and a presidential relocation facitly. Check out this link: http://users.shore.net/~mfoster/Roxbury.htm for more information. I knew people that lived next to the site and they reported seeing armed guards partolling the fence (circa 1988).
A decommissioned missle silo, wish they come with free microwave tower
strikes again.
Damn good points brought to you by RealityMan.
Now all I need to do is BAN tort cases and property taxes. Looks like its going to be a busy winter.
How does that work?
Please note that the information posted Wednesday regarding sites American Tower has for sale is not accurate. American Tower Corporation has a limited number of surplus towers for sale. The list of sites can be accessed through our sites for sale list at http://www.americantower.com/mainweb/SitesForSale. asp.
These are the only towers that are for sale. Please also note that these Surplus sites are sold on a strictly "as is-where is."
If the site you are inquiring about is not on the "Sites For Sale" list, then it is not for sale.
Is the original poster sure it is ATT selling these? When I worked for Lucent, (right after it was spun off) someone told me a story about how ATT had sold all their microwave towers several years before because of the fiber network being in place. The person that sold them caught nine kinds of hell (and supposedly lost her job) because ATT was about to outfit them with cell station equipment.
I think ATT sold them a while ago, but the company that bought them has to decided to sell them on the open market.
Ummm, Jon, aren't you supposed to be dead...? - Otter(3800)
Did I make it?