Why videogames aren't considered art by many.
on
Are Videogames Art?
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· Score: 2, Interesting
Are computer games not considered art simply because of its nature as an entertainment medium...
Hmmm...you mean like Music, Theatre, Movies, and Comics? No, that isn't why at all. In art, there is always a name behind something. When you listen to U2, you listen to 'Achtung Baby' by U2(eg Bono, the Edge), not 'Achtung Baby' by Island Records. The movies you like are often identifiable by the director, and more often the actors within. Jackson Pollack (whether one considers his paintings artistic or not) is most definitely Jackson Pollack, and not Sears. But how much name recognition is there in game programming, aside from a few standouts like Sid Meier and Yu Suzuki? And they're just directors. I think that your average game programmer is just as much of an artist as anyone in the Louvre, but most will never get any quantifiable credit for it in our society. Same goes for many other areas such as advertising (quite a number of graphic artists and conceptual geniuses around there).
I think that you are gravely mistaken. Here is why:
The simple, most basic fact of Linux on the desktop, is that that great majority of users fit a certain profile:
1. College student or fairly recent college graduate.
2. Strongly dislikes Microsoft.
I don't know where you're getting these statistics, but there are *plenty* of Linux users out there who either aren't in college, and haven't been in such a position for many many years. Yes, there are a lot of college age Linuxers, but there are a lot of college age computer users, in fact dwarfing almost all other demographics, in many cases.
So on the one side you have people with much passion but limited to no experience arguing that an open source program is just as good as a commercial offering.
Ok, now this is just plain insulting. Apparently your alma mater either never had an arts department, or you never noticed it. I'm a university student at the moment, and my school has massive numbers of students using their computers for complicated, involved artwork, anywhere from music to typography. The 21st century student artist is in many situations more talented with her tools and better versed in Photoshop/Illustrator/Premiere/Aftereffects/Final Cut/what-have-you than anyone in the "professional" industry. Why? It's because the students today are getting prepared for the industry before they enter the workforce. Training before graduation, folks. So when a colleague decides that GIMP can hold its own against Photoshop, I consider that a valid opinion. The difference between us Collegiates and the professional artistic workforce, is that when we are working on our own stuff we aren't forced to use one program or another by management (unless it is a program specific course). How many graphics professionals do you know that have actually gotten to know Linux and GIMP to make a fair comparison? How many graphic artists do you know?
A: I find it disturbing that a number of popular e-commerce sites don't work under Linux, either because Mozilla doesn't render them properly or because they require Windows-only tech, like ActiveX scripting.
B: Bah! I don't _need_ to go to sites that that! F**k em!
Windows products contain what usually amounts to proprietary code and technology. Case in point is the WINE project, which is great but needs tons more work to make the vast majority of useful programs in windows even remotely useable in linux. What do you want the linux community to do, devote all their time to constantly implementing the latest and greatest Microsoft service? Bah! F**k em! That's the only real answer that can accomplish anything. The more sites we serve on Linux, and the less people tolerate such OS specific content, means that companies will actually be forced to adopt open or alternative standards, which is what Linux is all about--not making a microsoft clone.
Adams' Rule of the unexpected (From 'The Dilbert Future')
For every good trend, and unexpected bad trend occurs to neutralize it. For example:
Good Trends:
Computers allow us to work 200 percent faster
Women gain more political influence
Pop Music continues to get better
Unexpected Bad Trends:
Computers generate 300 percent more work
Women are as dumb as men
I get old
Nothing too profound here, but it applies well to this situation. Email, Word Processing, IDEs, Cell Phones, and all sorts of unbridled access to information and communication were invented to help us gain more control, but often times they serve equally to bring more chaos into our lives, either through increased expectations or simply complication. Don't get me wrong, I love new technology as much as any other./er, but it does irk me sometimes that the new advance in studio recording technology I just bought will make the standard of excellence that much higher. Maybe I might become a member of the pen and pencil club just yet. Ha.
To be sure, whenever Slashdot has a story that involves M$ products, everyone gets hot and rustled with the age old "Why the hell do people still use Windows" thread.
Primarily I see two arguments that surface:
Windows has better/more software for my needs.
(I would argue with 'better', but point taken).
Windows is and will always be easier to use than
Linux.
I am sick and tired of hearing that excuse. And before you mod me down for being a snobbish troll, consider my reasoning first.
Barring great paradigms such as Graphical vs. CL interfaces, I don't believe that there is such thing as a 'More intuitive than another' OS. Obviously Linux has got GUI covered. Face it people, you are good at what you know. The reason that windows users don't think that Linux is easy to learn is because it isn't Windows . When you have spent maybe 10 to 15 years using M$ operating systems, you have grown very used to the way things work there. eg., I want to know the filesize of this document, I rightclick, and select properties. Does anyone really think that a person who has never used a computer before (after learning what a mouse is and does) is going to think "Oh, I think I'll right click on that icon and select 'Properties!" ? Like C++, swimming and Italian cookery, using a particular operating system is a learned skill.
Case in point? I hear that the Macintosh is supposed to be the end-all be-all of OS simplicity and intuitive design. *Yeah Right.* Just ask any windows/other user that is inexperienced with MacOS, and they'll tell you that it is a bloody nightmare. I work in IT at a University and I see this all the time--we have a small enclave of Mac users who are unbelievably frightened of PCs and our PC users are afraid to touch the Macs in fear that they'll cause the dreaded 'OsError' Bomb to come destroy the machine in spite. Not to mention the 'Boop of Death'. (True script involving my friend Renee at the library)
Renee: Ok, I'll just click the...
Mac: 'Boop'
Renee: Ahh! Ok, how about...
Mac: 'Boop'
Renee: Aiee!! I'm trying to close you! Stop Booping!
Mac: 'Boop Boop Boop'
What I'm getting at (and there is a point I suppose), is that making any platform shift is shaky at first. Linux comes naturally for me now, but I spent a good long amount of time in confusion. If we want people to understand computers better and have the ability to make these kinds of migrations painlessly, then they need to be educated about the abstracts of how computers interact with humans, and not through a computer literacy course that deals strictly with an OS. Maybe then./configure./make./make install won't be quite as terrifying.
Slashdot Mirror
Are computer games not considered art simply because of its nature as an entertainment medium...
Hmmm...you mean like Music, Theatre, Movies, and Comics? No, that isn't why at all. In art, there is always a name behind something. When you listen to U2, you listen to 'Achtung Baby' by U2(eg Bono, the Edge), not 'Achtung Baby' by Island Records. The movies you like are often identifiable by the director, and more often the actors within. Jackson Pollack (whether one considers his paintings artistic or not) is most definitely Jackson Pollack, and not Sears. But how much name recognition is there in game programming, aside from a few standouts like Sid Meier and Yu Suzuki? And they're just directors. I think that your average game programmer is just as much of an artist as anyone in the Louvre, but most will never get any quantifiable credit for it in our society. Same goes for many other areas such as advertising (quite a number of graphic artists and conceptual geniuses around there).
I think that you are gravely mistaken. Here is why:
The simple, most basic fact of Linux on the desktop, is that that great majority of users fit a certain profile:
1. College student or fairly recent college graduate.
2. Strongly dislikes Microsoft.
I don't know where you're getting these statistics, but there are *plenty* of Linux users out there who either aren't in college, and haven't been in such a position for many many years. Yes, there are a lot of college age Linuxers, but there are a lot of college age computer users, in fact dwarfing almost all other demographics, in many cases.
So on the one side you have people with much passion but limited to no experience arguing that an open source program is just as good as a commercial offering.
Ok, now this is just plain insulting. Apparently your alma mater either never had an arts department, or you never noticed it. I'm a university student at the moment, and my school has massive numbers of students using their computers for complicated, involved artwork, anywhere from music to typography. The 21st century student artist is in many situations more talented with her tools and better versed in Photoshop/Illustrator/Premiere/Aftereffects/Final Cut/what-have-you than anyone in the "professional" industry. Why? It's because the students today are getting prepared for the industry before they enter the workforce. Training before graduation, folks. So when a colleague decides that GIMP can hold its own against Photoshop, I consider that a valid opinion. The difference between us Collegiates and the professional artistic workforce, is that when we are working on our own stuff we aren't forced to use one program or another by management (unless it is a program specific course). How many graphics professionals do you know that have actually gotten to know Linux and GIMP to make a fair comparison? How many graphic artists do you know?
A: I find it disturbing that a number of popular e-commerce sites don't work under Linux, either because Mozilla doesn't render them properly or because they require Windows-only tech, like ActiveX scripting.
B: Bah! I don't _need_ to go to sites that that! F**k em!
Windows products contain what usually amounts to proprietary code and technology. Case in point is the WINE project, which is great but needs tons more work to make the vast majority of useful programs in windows even remotely useable in linux. What do you want the linux community to do, devote all their time to constantly implementing the latest and greatest Microsoft service? Bah! F**k em! That's the only real answer that can accomplish anything. The more sites we serve on Linux, and the less people tolerate such OS specific content, means that companies will actually be forced to adopt open or alternative standards, which is what Linux is all about--not making a microsoft clone.
(From 'The Dilbert Future')
For every good trend, and unexpected bad trend occurs to neutralize it. For example:
Good Trends:
Computers allow us to work 200 percent faster
Women gain more political influence
Pop Music continues to get better
Unexpected Bad Trends:
Computers generate 300 percent more work
Women are as dumb as men
I get old
./er, but it does irk me sometimes that the new advance in studio recording technology I just bought will make the standard of excellence that much higher. Maybe I might become a member of the pen and pencil club just yet. Ha.
Nothing too profound here, but it applies well to this situation. Email, Word Processing, IDEs, Cell Phones, and all sorts of unbridled access to information and communication were invented to help us gain more control, but often times they serve equally to bring more chaos into our lives, either through increased expectations or simply complication. Don't get me wrong, I love new technology as much as any other
To be sure, whenever Slashdot has a story that involves M$ products, everyone gets hot and rustled with the age old "Why the hell do people still use Windows" thread. Primarily I see two arguments that surface:
Windows has better/more software for my needs.
(I would argue with 'better', but point taken).
Windows is and will always be easier to use than Linux.
I am sick and tired of hearing that excuse. And before you mod me down for being a snobbish troll, consider my reasoning first.
Barring great paradigms such as Graphical vs. CL interfaces, I don't believe that there is such thing as a 'More intuitive than another' OS. Obviously Linux has got GUI covered. Face it people, you are good at what you know. The reason that windows users don't think that Linux is easy to learn is because it isn't Windows . When you have spent maybe 10 to 15 years using M$ operating systems, you have grown very used to the way things work there. eg., I want to know the filesize of this document, I rightclick, and select properties. Does anyone really think that a person who has never used a computer before (after learning what a mouse is and does) is going to think "Oh, I think I'll right click on that icon and select 'Properties!" ? Like C++, swimming and Italian cookery, using a particular operating system is a learned skill.
Case in point? I hear that the Macintosh is supposed to be the end-all be-all of OS simplicity and intuitive design. *Yeah Right.* Just ask any windows/other user that is inexperienced with MacOS, and they'll tell you that it is a bloody nightmare. I work in IT at a University and I see this all the time--we have a small enclave of Mac users who are unbelievably frightened of PCs and our PC users are afraid to touch the Macs in fear that they'll cause the dreaded 'OsError' Bomb to come destroy the machine in spite. Not to mention the 'Boop of Death'. (True script involving my friend Renee at the library)
Renee: Ok, I'll just click the...
Mac: 'Boop'
Renee: Ahh! Ok, how about...
Mac: 'Boop'
Renee: Aiee!! I'm trying to close you! Stop Booping!
Mac: 'Boop Boop Boop'
What I'm getting at (and there is a point I suppose), is that making any platform shift is shaky at first. Linux comes naturally for me now, but I spent a good long amount of time in confusion. If we want people to understand computers better and have the ability to make these kinds of migrations painlessly, then they need to be educated about the abstracts of how computers interact with humans, and not through a computer literacy course that deals strictly with an OS. Maybe then