Sorry, but it's a rewrite from the perspective they did exactly the same stupid thing AWT did in the first place below the covers.... Native libraries that have to be ported to each platform, and all that entails. That's why the SWT portability sucks between platforms, and don't kid yourself that it isn't there. It might be a bit better now, but it's the same stupid mistake as before. Gosling even commented on this during a keynote at JavaOne.
As for telling your users what to do.... well, that's up to you, but mine never see the "java commmand". If you're doing that, then there's a big problem. Of course, since you're using SWT, you don't have that option anyway.
Mine just click a link or run a script, simple as that. They never even see the java command.
No, sorry...I should be able to run my binaries without mods on any distribution. Most of the time it works. Sometimes it doesn't...and it's a bitch to fix when it doesn't. Fix that before people start preaching about "opening Java".
Well, if it's anything like EQ1 was for me, that monthly fee will SAVE you money in the long term, if that's the only game you end up playing.
Before EQ1, I'd buy five or six games a year. That's between $40 and $50 a pop per game. And most of those were really crappy games. A $40 game is about a three (almost four) month EQ subscription.
When I started EQ1, I stopped buying those other games, because I was too interested in EQ1. Over the long term, I bought all the expansions, but I know for a fact that I ended up saving money, even with the subscription fees.
That probably won't convince them either, but it might. I tried CoH for a while, but stopped playing because it just didn't hold my interest. Canned it before the subscription fee kicked in.
EQ2 isn't even out in beta yet, so I guess I'm wondering how you can compare all those. Are you saying that EQ2 will just be about graphics, and nothing else? Is that how you're drawing the comparisons? One could make a great argument that the Gothic II scene you cited is just a rip-off of EQ1.
I've played CoH, and it's OK for what it is, but I have to wonder how it'll do in the long term. I did like the "I want to screw around for about 20 minutes" factor that CoH has.
The real key here is the game play. Nethack and rogue had awful "graphics" (if you can even call what they had "graphics"), but the playability of those was just great.
Star Wars Galaxies was an original look and feel at least as original as WoW, if you look at it from the "already established genre" stance. Game looked great. The gameplay just bites in that game.
Bottom line, it can look as pretty as you want, but if the game play isn't there....who cares?
This should scare everyone, no matter what their political affiliation.
There's going to be voter fraud BIG TIME this election, and paperless voting will only help that happening.
I seriously think we're going to end up with precincts that people not eligible to vote voting anyway, people voting multiple times, people buying votes, polls being left open HOURS longer than they were supposed to (judge in the pocket, get him to rule for you... Hey! Throw an election your way!)
OK, that's not much of a stretch. Those things happened in Florida, Missouri and Wisconsin last national election.
How many convictions did you hear about because those things? None.
This is gonna get a lot worse before it gets better, and there had better be some serious jail time for the people who are doing this stuff or it'll be impossible to hold an election.
I seriously think we're going to hear about precincts that end up with more votes than actual registered voters.
Open it how? To get the source? To see the bugs? So you can submit fixes? They do that already.
If people want to prove to Sun that OSing Java would be a good thing, then I think they should prove it by fixing all the incompatibilities between the various Linux distributions first. Saying that Java won't fragment if it goes OS would mean a lot more if they could fix Linux's problems first.
I think this says more about the difficulty of getting apps in general running across distros than it does Java specifically.
We've had problems getting just plain old C++ apps working across the various different distros because of the differences between them.
Thanks for the point about Java on Debian though... we've done some preliminary work with our C++ OpenGL apps on there, which worked OK, after some tweaks.
If Java doesn't work well there like you say, I'll recommend we go to another distribution instead.
Where the hell are people getting this logic from? It doesn't tell you squat about Java, any more than any other app does. That's like saying "my embedded system usings ASM language, and it's great, and this damn C program hogs memory resources, therefore it sucks".
You might have plenty of reasons to dislike Java, but spreading FUD like this doesn't get your argument any further along.
Man, spend the bucks on some memory before you start complaining about performance of ANYTHING. Next thing you'll be saying is that emacs sucks because it doesn't perform well in a system with 50mb of swap space....
It's your system that's performing badly; get some more memory. Even if you don't do a thing with Java, you'll be better off.
That's the stupidest reasoning I've ever heard. Lower-entry isn't the reason people are putting projects up like that. By that logic, if people want easier entry into OS projects, they'd code in PHP.
People code in Java (or PHP) because it's what they choose to get the job done. It's not like there are tons of people yearning to do OS projects, and they think the easiest way to get in is by using language A or B or C.
Get good quality chairs and furniture, but for God's sake, don't get the modular stuff you can't move. Moving cable up and down behind stuff that's up against the wall with a 2 inch clearance is a pain.
If you get laptops for folks, get them good quality laptops. A laptop that isn't up to scratch is almost worse than not having one.
Don't get a public frig, unless you have someone assigned to clean it. It'd be better to just get those individual desk frigs; they don't hold much, but at least everyone would be responsible for their own.
Ah, spoken as someone that has never worked in a government funded organization.
Public universities would never, ever go for this, and they shouldn't.
Public funding is a grant; The same way that public funding for the arts is a grant. Once funded, the government can't swoop in and take what was done.
The government shouldn't be putting any restrictions on what people do with the money they get, and that includes MAKING someone put work in the public domain. ANY work. That includes software.
A lot of software does get released in some form or another, but it should be by the developer's choice, not the governments.
There's an old Dilbert cartoon in which the boss says the workers are going to get money for each bug they fix.... Wally says "I'm gonna go code myself a car!"
There's no way anyone will get tax credits for fixing bugs.
In the time it would take the person to go from a BS degree to a PhD, they could have worked their way through to company and even gone past that level 17.
Not to mention the years of income, experience for new jobs, etc.
Nice conspiracy theory, but the big flaw in all this is that the person in the FCC pushing all the indency stuff is Michael Copp, a democrat. He was part of the Ersnt Hollings' staff before going to the FCC.
This all reminds me of Tipper Gore back in the 1980s.
You're complaining about the wrong guy. The FCC commissioner who is pushing this "indecency" thing is Michael Copps. Copps is the former chief of staff to South Carolina's Democratic Senator Ernest Hollings.
Some idiot "evangalist" for Sun spouts off saying something that he wasn't authorized to, and people act like it's the "official word".
Have you ever met one of these guys? They're just regular engineering types that wandered a little to close to marketing for their own good.
These guys have no authority any more than any other engineer from any other company. You can bet he got his ass in a sling for doing it too; the same as would happen at any other company.
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Sorry, but it's a rewrite from the perspective they did exactly the same stupid thing AWT did in the first place below the covers.... Native libraries that have to be ported to each platform, and all that entails. That's why the SWT portability sucks between platforms, and don't kid yourself that it isn't there. It might be a bit better now, but it's the same stupid mistake as before. Gosling even commented on this during a keynote at JavaOne.
As for telling your users what to do.... well, that's up to you, but mine never see the "java commmand". If you're doing that, then there's a big problem. Of course, since you're using SWT, you don't have that option anyway.
Mine just click a link or run a script, simple as that. They never even see the java command.
No, sorry...I should be able to run my binaries without mods on any distribution. Most of the time it works. Sometimes it doesn't...and it's a bitch to fix when it doesn't. Fix that before people start preaching about "opening Java".
Well, if it's anything like EQ1 was for me, that monthly fee will SAVE you money in the long term, if that's the only game you end up playing.
Before EQ1, I'd buy five or six games a year. That's between $40 and $50 a pop per game. And most of those were really crappy games. A $40 game is about a three (almost four) month EQ subscription.
When I started EQ1, I stopped buying those other games, because I was too interested in EQ1. Over the long term, I bought all the expansions, but I know for a fact that I ended up saving money, even with the subscription fees.
That probably won't convince them either, but it might. I tried CoH for a while, but stopped playing because it just didn't hold my interest. Canned it before the subscription fee kicked in.
EQ2 isn't even out in beta yet, so I guess I'm wondering how you can compare all those. Are you saying that EQ2 will just be about graphics, and nothing else? Is that how you're drawing the comparisons? One could make a great argument that the Gothic II scene you cited is just a rip-off of EQ1.
I've played CoH, and it's OK for what it is, but I have to wonder how it'll do in the long term. I did like the "I want to screw around for about 20 minutes" factor that CoH has.
The real key here is the game play. Nethack and rogue had awful "graphics" (if you can even call what they had "graphics"), but the playability of those was just great.
Star Wars Galaxies was an original look and feel at least as original as WoW, if you look at it from the "already established genre" stance. Game looked great. The gameplay just bites in that game.
Bottom line, it can look as pretty as you want, but if the game play isn't there....who cares?
This should scare everyone, no matter what their political affiliation.
There's going to be voter fraud BIG TIME this election, and paperless voting will only help that happening.
I seriously think we're going to end up with precincts that people not eligible to vote voting anyway, people voting multiple times, people buying votes, polls being left open HOURS longer than they were supposed to (judge in the pocket, get him to rule for you... Hey! Throw an election your way!)
OK, that's not much of a stretch. Those things happened in Florida, Missouri and Wisconsin last national election.
How many convictions did you hear about because those things? None.
This is gonna get a lot worse before it gets better, and there had better be some serious jail time for the people who are doing this stuff or it'll be impossible to hold an election.
I seriously think we're going to hear about precincts that end up with more votes than actual registered voters.
Open it how? To get the source? To see the bugs? So you can submit fixes? They do that already.
If people want to prove to Sun that OSing Java would be a good thing, then I think they should prove it by fixing all the incompatibilities between the various Linux distributions first. Saying that Java won't fragment if it goes OS would mean a lot more if they could fix Linux's problems first.
I think this says more about the difficulty of getting apps in general running across distros than it does Java specifically.
We've had problems getting just plain old C++ apps working across the various different distros because of the differences between them.
Thanks for the point about Java on Debian though... we've done some preliminary work with our C++ OpenGL apps on there, which worked OK, after some tweaks.
If Java doesn't work well there like you say, I'll recommend we go to another distribution instead.
SWT blows. It's a rewrite of the very broken AWT stuff Sun never should have written in the first place.
I run swing apps all the time that work fine, but
If you're worried about Swing performance, run it with the OpenGL perference turned on.
Where the hell are people getting this logic from? It doesn't tell you squat about Java, any more than any other app does. That's like saying "my embedded system usings ASM language, and it's great, and this damn C program hogs memory resources, therefore it sucks".
You might have plenty of reasons to dislike Java, but spreading FUD like this doesn't get your argument any further along.
Man, spend the bucks on some memory before you start complaining about performance of ANYTHING. Next thing you'll be saying is that emacs sucks because it doesn't perform well in a system with 50mb of swap space....
It's your system that's performing badly; get some more memory. Even if you don't do a thing with Java, you'll be better off.
That's the stupidest reasoning I've ever heard. Lower-entry isn't the reason people are putting projects up like that. By that logic, if people want easier entry into OS projects, they'd code in PHP.
People code in Java (or PHP) because it's what they choose to get the job done. It's not like there are tons of people yearning to do OS projects, and they think the easiest way to get in is by using language A or B or C.
Apple's work was contributed back to Sun for inclusion in the next release (I think...might be the point release after that).
Some of the event handling stuff might be under the awt libraries, but Swing wasn't built on AWT.
AWT was awful though.
I was there during that keynote, and his statement was that it was heavily used under Linux, NOT the MOST heavily used.
Andrew Fastow - 10 years
Lea Fastow - 1 year (And that's just doing the cover up stuff).
And that's just two from Enron. The other people in from there have either killed themselves, or have trials pending.
If you want more, just google 'em.
This is the wrong solution. If they have a problem with a machine on the network, cut it's access until they can verify the problem is fixed.
There's no way they should be requiring that personal machines should be subject to THEIR updates.
Parking....
Not bad to walk that far, unless you work in a climate with hideous weather. It's great in the Spring/Summer/Fall, but in the winter it's awful.
Another thing....some places CHARGE you to park. Universities do, and some corporate gigs do.
Never, ever charge employees to park. That's just wrong.
All great points, and I'd add:
..those 15 engineers? They're creative types too. :-)
#9 Furniture you can move around
Get good quality chairs and furniture, but for God's sake, don't get the modular stuff you can't move. Moving cable up and down behind stuff that's up against the wall with a 2 inch clearance is a pain.
If you get laptops for folks, get them good quality laptops. A laptop that isn't up to scratch is almost worse than not having one.
Don't get a public frig, unless you have someone assigned to clean it. It'd be better to just get those individual desk frigs; they don't hold much, but at least everyone would be responsible for their own.
Btw,
Ah, spoken as someone that has never worked in a government funded organization.
Public universities would never, ever go for this, and they shouldn't.
Public funding is a grant; The same way that public funding for the arts is a grant. Once funded, the government can't swoop in and take what was done.
The government shouldn't be putting any restrictions on what people do with the money they get, and that includes MAKING someone put work in the public domain. ANY work. That includes software.
A lot of software does get released in some form or another, but it should be by the developer's choice, not the governments.
There's an old Dilbert cartoon in which the boss says the workers are going to get money for each bug they fix.... Wally says "I'm gonna go code myself a car!"
There's no way anyone will get tax credits for fixing bugs.
In the time it would take the person to go from a BS degree to a PhD, they could have worked their way through to company and even gone past that level 17.
Not to mention the years of income, experience for new jobs, etc.
Nice conspiracy theory, but the big flaw in all this is that the person in the FCC pushing all the indency stuff is Michael Copp, a democrat. He was part of the Ersnt Hollings' staff before going to the FCC.
This all reminds me of Tipper Gore back in the 1980s.
You're complaining about the wrong guy. The FCC commissioner who is pushing this "indecency" thing is Michael Copps. Copps is the former chief of staff to South Carolina's Democratic Senator Ernest Hollings.
Pure FUD.
Some "evangalist" with no authority to speak for the company spouted off.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Oh please.
Some idiot "evangalist" for Sun spouts off saying something that he wasn't authorized to, and people act like it's the "official word".
Have you ever met one of these guys? They're just regular engineering types that wandered a little to close to marketing for their own good.
These guys have no authority any more than any other engineer from any other company. You can bet he got his ass in a sling for doing it too; the same as would happen at any other company.