Uniquely Bright: Experiences and Tips?

An anonymous reader writes: "I would like to hear from fellow /.ers that consider themselves unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' and how you have dealt with it. What are you doing now? What did you do for education? How is your life now? I'm on the verge of entering college, never having liked school much yet always in love with learning. I would like some tips, suggestions, and experience in living with an extra degree of intensity, depth, and general intelligence. I love learning, yet I never have found school enjoyable. I'm incredibly intense and concentrated, yet I often become bored of specific projects in a few months. It's not anything diagnosable (I've looked into it) but more an inherent trait. Academically, I have managed to be alright, but nothing spectacular. Lots of people I meet think I should have a 4.0 easy, but I'm pretty far from it. My interests are broad, from computers (linux/os x/php/mysql/etc) to photography to cookery, I'm creative and technical. Friends and others recognize my strength in these areas. I can't stand being completely technical alone, but I love it in moderation. My attention span is practically unlimited when I am interested in a topic, and I get intensely interested in it. I want to hear from people who share some or all of these traits. I'm just coming up on entering college, so most of my life is ahead of me. I'd like to hear about everything from your education to your career to things you wish you had done differently!" Sounds like an INTP to me.

Comments

Advice

[SpaceCadetTrav]

Drop out and start an Internet company. I hear that's the way to go these days.

Re:Advice

[tha_mink]

The real thing you need to do is get over yourself. You're not special. There's lots of people in this world that are just as smart as you. Once you get over yourself, the world is your oyster. "unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' "...jesus...Kill me. Get over yourself.

Re:Advice

[ldspartan]

Yes!

Not so much that exactly, but don't think you're a fucking genius because you're the smartest kid in your highschool. It takes a lot to be succesful, intelligence alone won't do it. I'm sure most of know (or are) plenty of very smart people who are not effective in the real world because they can't communicate effectively.

College is a totally different story, particularly if you're going to a good one. You'll meet people there who are intelligent, motivated, and personable.

Also, if "non-traditionally bright" is a cop-out for not working hard enough to fulfilly your potential, well, good fucking luck. If you find your undergraduate degree easy (as I have to a large extent), you probably should have gotten into a better college. If you're in one of the best colleges for your degree, you should probably be getting another degree. If all those things are true, get a graduate degree.

--
lds

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Below the story submission there is a button that says "Reply". You click this button if you want to reply to the story. Below each post there is a link that says "Reply to This". You click on this link if you want to reply specifically to the post. Right now, it looks like at least three people have confused these buttons.
On a related note, you are in no position to be giving out advice if you can't even figure out how to post a comment correctly on Slashdot!

Re:Advice

[Zeinfeld]

The real thing you need to do is get over yourself. You're not special. There's lots of people in this world that are just as smart as you. Once you get over yourself, the world is your oyster. "unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' "...jesus...Kill me. Get over yourself.

Smart is not always what succeeds. There are plenty of stupid people that get far. Take Dufus in the Whitehouse for example. Few people would claim that he is an original thinker or highly knowledgable. On the other hand there are people with blistering high IQs and degrees in Nuclear Physics who can't find a job better than part time computer class instructor.

Being intelligent does not count for very much, not unless you are actually prepared to do some work and learn something that is useful. Its like having the worlds fastest computer and no software.

The worst thing that can happen is if you get the idea that you are so smart you don't need to bother knowing anything. There are plenty of people like that in the world. And even if by luck or family connections you happen to get a great job, you are even worse off because that attitude usually leads to failure.

That said, there is plenty of stuff that schools teach that is entirely useless. I never saw the point of learning French, the effort required was vastly disproportionate to the benefit, and I have lived in the country for two years. But it is highly unlikely that you are 'differently smart' if you are getting straight Ds and Es in all your courses.

If you really are gifted you don't have to ask slashdot for career advice, you know what you are best at. I have always excelled at tasks that require analytical reasoning and interpretation of data. Subjects that require rote memorization have rarely interested me. I can write a pretty good history essay with access to reference materials, but remembering the date of the Tolpuddle Martyrs is utterly pointless as far as I am concerned.

If all you are good at is memorization then you are definitely having to do a lot of work to get anywhere.

You still have to do work if you are good at analysis, but it is more likely that it won't appear to be work. I tend to think I am pretty lazy, I use the fact that ideas seem to come to me effortlessly to avoid having to work as hard as I should. But most people arround me think I am a workaholic who never stops because I am always doing stuff - the stuff that does not appear to me to be work.

The brain is like any other muscle, you have to exercise it to keep it fit. I may not spend all my time thinking on work, but I spend almost all my time thinking about some problem.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Being very bright at an early age, I started operating people, and saving lifes at my 14th year of age : Don't do that kid !

Signed : D. Howser

Re:Advice

[Epistax]

That's a little rude. Accurate, but a little rude.
Here's a more correct message:

There are people who by their upbringing (religion, social forces, parents) are predisposed in any of many ways that limits their own abilities significantly. You are not one of them. Anything you do, you will enjoy and will be good at. Note that I did not say great, I said good. Great takes work. So you have a few choices:
Do anything you want, enjoy it, and live off it.
Work very hard suffering mentally at first, and eventually have big payoffs (psychologically and likely financially).
Work very hard suffering mentally the whole way. Rewards come but you push them away because they just interfere with what's important.
Resign yourself to become just a mindless peon.

Most people are dead long before they've died. They might marry, have children, even occasionally read a book but they are acting on external stimuli alone and are, to be blunt, nothing more than walking sacks of chemicals doing everything they should do. They've lost the spark entirely.

I am just as guilty as the next person in causing my own undoing. I do take a little from the fact that I at least acknowledge it, and try to fight it. Who knows, even I may not end up useless after all.

Re:Advice

[jarich]

Smart is not always what succeeds.

Exactly. Smart is important but discipline more so. If you can't finish something, you'll never succeed at anything. And this "stick-to-it-ness" is what you'll learn in college (if you can finish it).

Why did I have to take 3 semesters of calculus, then 2 semesters of calc based stats, etc? Was it because all computer science folks need to know how to calculate volume under a curve?

No. It is to teach you how to think, how to stick with something and to finish it.

If you are as smart as you think you are, add discipline and the world is your oyster.

Re:Advice

[cgenman]

There's lots of people in this world that are just as smart as you.

The thing that separates intelligence and genius is a lot of disciplined, tiring, rigorous work. And by tiring, I mean staying at the lab for days straight while your roommate calls the cops thinking you have been nabbed. The trap I see many "unusually bright" people fall into is that because everything came easily to them in High School, they never learned to really work at things. But really working at things is how you get somewhere in life... really working at things is how you separate the unusually bright and kind of good from the unusually bright who dedicates their life in a sheer bloody minded pursuit. Simply being brighter and better than most of the people in your High School isn't even enough to avoid crappy jobs... a friend of mine memorized my set of Encyclopedia Britannicas in the span of two weeks, yet jumps from crappy retail job to crappy retail job because he just doesn't "enjoy" doing anything. In reality, he's not dedicated enough to get beyond crappy jobs and into something that he would like doing.

We all say that intelligence is the highest achievement, but that's not entirely true. Intelligence is distinct from knowledge, which is distinct from dedication. All three are necessary for success.

If you want my advice, do a trial by fire. Do something REALLY hard and unpleasant, like outward bound, the AIDS ride across Alaska, or spend a summer of thankless backbreaking toil on an Alaskan fishing boat. Ultimately, you will be glad you did.

Re:Advice

[kfg]

My first bit of advice is to ignore nearly every response to your question, particularly the ones that contain the words "get over yourself." People here aren't necessarily very bright, but are often a bit full of themselves themselves, as you can see by the fact that most of them don't have the cognitive ability to comprehend your concerns or questions and simply think you're "putting on airs."

However, if you are rather bright you should realize that you just asked for a book length dissertation on the subject, which is entirely unreasonable for a forum of this sort.

Find yourself a home schooling support group in your area and through them an older person who's been through it and talk to them for few hours. You need an honest to God, flesh and bone mentor. You're in the wrong place.

KFG

Re:Advice

[Sinful_Shirts]

No doubt! That's exactly what I am doing, except for the dropping out part. I am starting my MBA this fall, but I consider it my backup plan. Starting a business is a lot of fun because it's challenging.

Re:Advice

[Quinthar]

Wow, I'm amazed by the negative reaction you inspired with your post. I'm sure there's some lesson in there, but I'm not sure it applies outside of the Slashdot forums. By and large, I've found people to be really nice in the "real world".

That said, my bit of advice is "don't overestimate the value of being right". Even if you see the solution before anyone else, and can convince anyone that lets you, and are ultimately vindicated -- it doesn't matter unless you can get your solution implemented.

I agree with the flavor of the other posts -- intellect and skill are important, but communication, persuasiveness, and leadership skills are even moreso.

-david

Re:Advice

[reanjr]

Don't be so quick to judge. Maybe the poster scores unusually high on standardized tests. He may be in the 99.999 percentile, leaving only 60,000 people in the world smarter than they are. That's not a whole lot.

Note: standardized tests, as flawed as they are, are really the only way of coming to some near kind-of estimate of intelligence I know of.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

I can empathize with certain aspects of this young man's plight. I consider myself somewhat of a non-traditional learner, and I was bored to tears in school for the most part. I am not brilliant, I posses no earth shattering intelligence, but my thought processes do tend to venture outside of the norm. Sometimes this produces good results, other times it just leads to frustration when others ( who can usually find more than one person to agree with them ) fail to understand my reasoning.

People tend to recognize my ability to "think outside the box" and often times appreciate it, but get ready to be very alone at times. In most cases others will not see things your way, and they will have plenty of other "normal" people to back them up in their views.

Find something you love to do, and see to it. By the way, if you are as intelligent as you claim to be, you will have no need to broadcast that perception, people will notice on their own. Just keep in mind that more often than not people like you and me are no smarter than the next person, we just think differently. Now I sound like an apple ad, but it is true. Consider it more of a hardship than a blessing, you are in for an interesting ride once you hit the real world.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

A 1600 on the SAT doesn't mean much.

Re:Advice

[YowzaTheYuzzum]

"I often become bored of specific projects"

"My attention span is practically unlimited"

Re:Advice

[wibs]

Being intelligent does not count for very much, not unless you are actually prepared to do some work and learn something that is useful. Its like having the worlds fastest computer and no software.

This is completely off topic, but your anology launched a friend and I into a whole list of these.

"He has Maya and Photoshop, but he's using a PocketPC!"
"His computer would be worshipped by geeks everywhere, but he has no internet connection!"
"He has a fast computer with maya and photoshop, and everything else worthwhile installed. but he has shitty ram that core dumps quite often causing the computer to reboot, and he never takes the time to make a backup!"

Alright, fine, my buddy and I are graphics geeks. Just wanted to say thanks for getting us started, I'd mod you up if I could. Not quite sure why you're at +1 Troll right now.

Re:Advice

[Facekhan]

I have always hated school too. It bears no resemblance to the real world. Don't put much stock in what they tell you. That includes the subjects, what they say about the world, and especially what they try to tell you about yourself. Like highschool its 90% bullshit. Its the same kinds of "education scientists" trying to convince you that everyone will be a more complete person after forcibly taking 30 credits of disconnected general education credits taught by TA's and part timers who probably won't even know your name by the end of the semester.

I am fairly close to concluding that college has been reduced to just a machine to put middle class kids into heavy debt that they will have to pay off their whole lives. Why else are dorms twice as expensive as off campus living and college catering services charging 8-15 dollars for a meal. Wouldn't that stuff be run at cost if college really was about learning and not about profit?

I have more or less relegated college to a chore at this point. I have a little less than 2 years left and I am taking some time off from it and working in my field. I am so much more successful in work environments that it is my sincere hope I won't ever have to go back. Basically college sucks IMHO. Aside from a handful of schools with extremely competitive admissions you are going to be surrounded by complete idiots. After a year you will stop wondering why everyone gets drunk, high, stoned, coked out of their mind every weekend because you will probably be doing it yourself.

Main Advice: Go give it a try and graduate as soon as possible. Try to do something real during the summers and winters or take more classes and graduate quicker. Its a waste of time but a degree is like a vat of butter that costs 50-200k and it greases you through the employers doors. On the other hand if you, like me, don't plan on working for someone else your whole life you may want to put that money into something useful like a business.

Re:Advice

[deranged unix nut]

I came to two important realizations a couple years ago.

First, people who are intensely brilliant in one or more areas are usually intensely stupid in other areas.

Second, brilliance does not count for anything if you don't have the discipline to stick to the task.

You may be bright in computers and normally insightful in many technical areas, but that frequently means that you are stupid about human nature, politics, music, religion, or some other basic area. I have a co-worker who is brilliant with a debugger, but who is constantly afraid that he will be fired because he can't communicate well with his manager.

One of my friends in college had amazing intuition. He skipped 90% of the classes one semester and consistently got A's or B's on the exams. However, when he got a job, he stopped showing up for work for two weeks, was nearly fired, and pulled the same stunt again a month later and was fired. As for myself, I would be making 10% to 15% more right now, in my 4 year old post-college career, than I currently am if I would have had the discipline to work on what I was supposed to be doing rather than what I felt like doing.

Before you get the attitude that you are so smart, ask yourself who you are comparing yourself with. I grew up in Southern Idaho, in a town of 5000 people where I would guess that less than 1/20th of the population had a bachelors degree or better. Now I live in Seattle where most of the population has a college degree and I work for a company that employs more than twice the number of people in the county that I grew up in. In Idaho, I got the same comments that you claim to get, and in Seattle I am just one of thousands.

Life is in constant flux. Tomorrow, psychology may be the hot field and software may be the next "automotive industry", don't choose a field because of the pay.

Today, a college degree is frequently a prereq for consideration for any desirable job. I wouldn't skip college, mostly because of all of the extras that you learn. Life in the dorms or in a fraternity and make friends.

Don't forget about finding someone to spend your life with, at some point computers won't mean all that much and you will want to know how to talk to someone that you are attracted to.

If you are passionate about something and make it your job, make a point to develop a hobby or else you will burn out. Computers have been my obsession for 15+ years and software has been my carrer for the last 4 and now I play with my container garden and listen to music instead of sitting on the computer when I come home.

Aside from that, figure out what you want to do and go do it. Life is to short to be doing something you hate. ....Most of all, take all of this with $.02....it is your life, choose for yourself.

Re:Advice

[webplummer]

There's nothing /.ers like more than talking about themselves. I'd say this is the perfect post for this forum . Close up shop and go home. We've reached the climax of this venture.

Re:Advice

[SpootFinallyRegister]

does that sound harsh? maybe, but it hits the nail on the head.

I used to feel the exact same way. Its probably why I dropped out of college and only recently went back and graduated (at 26). These are the kind of things I needed to realize before I could pull my head out my rear, get off my pedestal, and actually accomplish anything.

Yes, we are bright. But just because Einstein was disinterested too doesnt make us geniuses and wont make us successful. Even if it did, sitting around and contemplating how wonderfully non-traditionally we are is an excellent way to severly underachieve.

We are not non-traditional. In fact, I can't count the number of people who feel exactly the same way about themselves, yet I don't know anyone who is good at everything. Leonardo da Vinci was non-traditionally bright. Being good at math and average at philosophy does not make me a special unique snowflake, and certainly shouldnt excuse me from philosophy.

Just because something doesnt interest you doesnt mean you dont have to do it. Taxes dont interest me, reviewing co-workers bugfixes dont necessarily interest me, and figuring out a 401(k) doesnt interest me. Good luck not doing any of them. Life is full of boring, tedious crap you have to do, no matter how great and interesting a job, project, thesis, or whatever you stumble upon. Hopefully most of what you do is interesting, but it will never all be intetesting. Learn to get yourself through the boring stuff now -- it will always be there, and the more ingrained you get it in your head that youre above doing them, the more it will handicap you. Whether thats writing a history paper or endlessly bouncing around design documents in a large company, it happens.

Heres the most important part... really think about this and be honest with yourself. For those things that dont interest you, is it possible that you arent doing them simply because you arent good at them? that facing up to the fact they take you more time than other things (sometimes even *gasp* as long as it takes other people to do them) is too difficult, and its better to do poorly and blame it on disinterest? it will probably take you a few years to answer that one honestly. when you can, itll do wonders for you.

Talents are a gift, but you have to ascribe value to them yourself. People wouldnt think too highly of Thomas Edison if he was too lazy to apply himself and ended up shoveling manure out of a barn.

Things will change quickly when you go to school. Thinking you are the smartest, you are different, and that you should get special consideration is a crock of shit. Realizing that is a step you have to make to go from being gifted to being smart.

Watch out that you arent just finding a nice way to candy coat laziness.

Good luck.

Re:Advice

[sentientbeing]

true. there may be one or two exceptional people in your class at school.
Once you leave and get to University you realise everyones clever there and its no big deal.

and theyre there because of it not in spite of it.

Re:Advice

[John Jorsett]

I never saw the point of learning French, the effort required was vastly disproportionate to the benefit, and I have lived in the country for two years.

Ah. I was wondering about the gratuitous Bush bashing in an otherwise on-point post. You may not speak French, but propinquity has given you some of their attitudes.

Re:Advice

[schroet]

That's a fucking awesome post, If I could mod you +1 godmode I would.

Re:Advice

[the_ed_dawg]

The real thing you need to do is get over yourself. You're not special. There's lots of people in this world that are just as smart as you.

I'm normally a very encouraging person, but I have to agree with the parent here. This leads into something my mother would always say, "There's a difference between being smart and wise." I know a guy who was a supposed genius. He entered college on a full scholarship despite getting a 2.0 GPA in high school. He was way to smart for his electrical engineering classes, so he never went and stayed up late doing stupid things like riding the glass elevator at the Hilton and strolling around Wal-Mart looking for blue lamps. In the end, he lost his scholarship after a single semester (failing to keep a 2.0) and joined the Air Force, where I have heard he became a real screw-up.

The first question everyone asked was, "He was so smart, so why didn't he succeed?" The answer is so obvious that few people were willing to see it. He wasn't wise enough to know that he wasn't as smart as he thought he was. The second reason is that very few people give a damn about how smart you are. You will be judged based upon what you complete, and if your attention span is limited only to what you find interesting, you are destined for failure. Your boss will ask you to do something that is not interesting to you because it needs to be done. If you make a habit of (a) saying "no" or (b) not doing it with the effort required for successful completion, you can complain to the people standing next to you at the unemployment office.

Reiterating what many others have said, stop whining and prove your worth. I'd recommend college because I know very few employers who will even consider hiring people without college degrees for anything less than factory assembly or janitorial staff. Why? College doesn't prove that you're smart because lots of stupid people graduate each year. College shows that you can dedicate yourself to a long-term goal of accumulating a functional knowledge of a discipline and succeed at an acceptable level. If you aren't willing to do that, be prepared for heartbreak, as most companies are not willing to take a chance with you, however promising you claim to be.

Re:Advice

[Glidedon2]

That "Dufus in the Whitehouse" is the leader of the free world. What are you? ... wait I know, your dead if your not wahhabi Muslim.

Re:Advice

[Associate]

I've been dead since I was 12. I feel like Bruce Willis when he realized he was dead.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, I felt that way for years being one of the top kids in my high school. I was always one of the brightest people at any of the companies I worked for..until I started working for a company where 20%+ have NO LESS then 1 PHD, and it put me in my place. Try going some place like CMU or MIT, it'll humble you out really fast.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

too true. im sitting on the pot, reading this about to head out to my studio and stare down a blank sheet of paper. i dont want to be dead but there isnt much left. if you want to see what i draw, click here
p3

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

There are plenty of stupid people that get far. Take Dufus in the Whitehouse for example.

George Bush received a bachelor's degree from Yale University in 1968, then served as an F-102 fighter pilot in the Texas Air National Guard. President Bush received a Master of Business Administration from Harvard Business School in 1975. After graduating, he moved back to Midland and began a career in the energy business. After working on his father's successful 1988 presidential campaign, he assembled the group of partners that purchased the Texas Rangers baseball franchise in 1989.

He served as managing general partner of the Texas Rangers until he was elected Governor on November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. He became the first Governor in Texas history to be elected to consecutive four-year terms when he was re-elected on November 3, 1998, with 68.6 percent of the vote.

...yeah, regular old dumbass, eh?

Re:Advice

[Basehart]

If you're a regular kid in regular school it's totally all about how to choose a career, how to get a job and how to keep that job.

No doubt the rich kids are being taught how to hire as cheap as possible and then kill the company for the greatest net gain.

Admitted, the teeming masses can't all start their own companies, but c'mon teachers, at least throw it out there as an option from time to time.

Re:Advice

[silentbozo]

If you're a self-starter, college will be a great place (quarter system is my recommendation for those who want to cram more classes into a year without the possibility of getting stuck in a class you hate for half the year.) Hopefully you've been smart enough to get all the boring classes out of the way by taking as many AP tests as you can get your hands on. Nothing worse than realizing that your first two years of college will be spent taking classes you could have gotten out of the way in High School. That's my opinion, having avoided almost all of those non-major core classes by taking about a dozen AP tests before graduating (that's tests, not classes - you're allowed to take the test without taking the class...) Community college credits usually transfer if you're going to a state school, so you might want to make good use of your time this summer.

Drop out and start an Internet company. I hear that's the way to go these days.

Although that was probably meant as a +1 funny, the venture capital activity is heating up on the internet front, and people are starting to come out of the woodwork with internet-based business plans. I wouldn't advocate dropping out, but you can probably make some good money consulting with your PHP skills.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

They might marry, have children, even occasionally read a book but they are acting on external stimuli alone and are, to be blunt, nothing more than walking sacks of chemicals doing everything they should do. They've lost the spark entirely.

The spark is still there alright. I just feel like I'm far far away from it, with a broken compass (for locating sparks), in a dark room, with no flashlight, under a blanket, and fending off a grue with my +2 twig of doom. I'll make it back somehow.

Re:Advice

[Amiga Lover]

The real thing you need to do is get over yourself. You're not special. There's lots of people in this world that are just as smart as you. Once you get over yourself, the world is your oyster. "unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' "...jesus...Kill me. Get over yourself.


I'd mod you up if I could, but you're already at +5.

Something that's always annoyed me about geeks (the computer kind) is how much crap they'll spew forth about being special, brighter, smarter. These are people who can work well in a few areas, generally a little academic, and often loners. Go within a few degrees of that description and you have most geeks, most of the slashdot crowd.

Now, not to take away from that - it is a good thing to have capabilities, but so often I see this same type expect that by virtue of that unique set of talents they are above many others. That's so many levels of bullshit. I've known carpenters who can't turn a computer on and barely read who can push out some amazing work from nothing but 3 tools and a couple of boards. Gardeners who can build phenomenal areas with a serenity and comfort matched by nothing else. Musicians who would be lucky to see ten feet in front of them for being lost in their own world, but who can pick up a single instrument and play to melt your heart.

We're nothing special. I'm a geek myself, and that's my specific talent but I don't in any way think that makes me especially bright, or uniquely so in any way other than being a unique individual.

And we all have that.

Re:Advice

[Col Bat Guano]

If you want my advice, do a trial by fire. Do something REALLY hard and unpleasant, like outward bound, the AIDS ride across Alaska

...or read all of the slashdot posting for a week.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

This sounds like a stupid person who went to a therapist, asking the therapist why they are stupid.

The therapist, trained not to crush people's feelings, tells the stupid person that they are not stupid, they just think differently.

Suck it up, buddy, you are stupid. If people can't understand you're reasoning, this means you are stupid. Just accept it and move on.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Hah - been there, still there, not sure how to leave :)

Life is a massive disappointment for so many reasons. It would be nice to feel you can change your personality or find a way to enjoy yourself, but unfortunately the research on personality (yes it's a personality thing, not an external life situation) argues against it.

Your personality type and outlook only become more set as you age - and you are unlikely to have any personality change after the age of 25 or so.

If that bums you out, realise that at least medication can alleviate the symptoms - paxil, diazepam, valium, prozac - whatever gets you through the day...

Feel better anyway - life is better than the alternative (especially for athiests like myself).

Re:Advice

[NiceGeek]

Whatever...I've never been to France and I think GBW is a dumbass.

Re:Advice

[Thangodin]

There is intelligence, compassion, and wisdom.

Intelligence is raw computing/problem solving power, absorbtion, and processing. Good, but it makes things easy, and can make you lazy. Still, I wish there was a lot more of it around. I'm getting tired of uncomprehending frowns.

God protect me (and I'm an atheist!) from social neanderthals--those intellectual bullies who are the only ones who know something simply because they are incapable of communicating it! Any person, regardless of how brilliant, who cannot work with others is not worth the chair he occupies. Homo Sapiens won over the other, stronger humanoid varients simply because we were able to form long and stable relationships, which manifested as trade routes and shared and accumulated knowledge. For even if I have knowledge of all things, and can perform the most complex mathematical proofs in my head without effort, without love I am nothing. My advice: find the most exotic wildflower you can find, as different from yourself as possible, and fall madly in love with her. Make her your muse, and whether she ever returns your affections or not, never stop loving her, though you move on. Repeat. In this way others who are different from yourself will become part of you, and you will span the dimensions of humanity.

The last is wisdom. The smartest person I ever knew killed himself shortly after he turned 30. He lacked wisdom. He could write brilliantly, that was his passion, but he had nothing to say. Wisdom is born of love, but persists even when you are alone. It lies at the base of all religion, but religion is only a means, not the end. When the Bhudda holds up the lotus flower, mystics of all traditions smile, nod, and walk away--those that remain will haggle over the wording of the sermon. To those that know, no words are neccessary; to those who don't, no words will suffice. The true way cannot be spoken. This you must figure out for yourself--and you must never stop searching until you do! And anyone who tells you differently, and offers to explain it all to you, is trying to sell you something.

Re:Advice

[James4765]

If you want my advice, do a trial by fire. Do something REALLY hard and unpleasant, like outward bound, the AIDS ride across Alaska, or spend a summer of thankless backbreaking toil on an Alaskan fishing boat. Ultimately, you will be glad you did.

That's just about what I did. 6 years as a diesel mechanic - that's after being put up for AP CompSci as a sophomore in high school. Trust me - re-wiring heavy trucks and computerized engine controls in 110 degree heat, with your continued employment resting on completing the job fast, with no fuck-ups, did wonders for my mental stamina. I really want an office job now...

Challenge yourself. Buy an old SparcStation and teach yourself Solaris. Set insane goals for yourself. Genius is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration - shlocky saying, but true nonetheless.

Re:Advice

[NewNole2001]

Bachelor's degree from Yale University: $1,000,000 of daddy's inherited fortune as a "donation" to the school.
F-102 fighter pilot... Uhm, the fucker never showed up, so who gives a shit.. With this thinking, I should claim that I was an ace in WWII, and I'm 20.
MBA from Harvard: Another $1,000,000 "donation."
Using daddy's connections to get into the energy business. Whoopdee friggin' doo.. If my dad was a billionaire, I could start an energy company, too.
Buying the Texas Rangers. Well, we see how far that went... They are the greatest bunch of money wasting losers in sports...
Who cares that he was elected Governor. It's Texas.. I've been there, and I live in Florida, we all know that given a dumb enough state, any dumb ass can get elected. (see Jeb Bush) Getting elected again, well, maybe they should keep sparky warmer, and start executing people for the stupidity they have shown.
And as far as being a dumbass... Look at his foriegn policy. My old hamster could have executed better foriegn policy.

Re:Advice

[lpfarris]

"Get over yourself." Got to agree there. Got a 4.0 in a top high school with no effort. Got a full ride to an Ivy. Got humbled. Got a Ph.D. Just helped me to devalue Ph.D.'s in my mind. :)
You've got to ask yourself what you really want out of life. And, yes, the answer to that is allowed to change as you gain experience. Make your priorities, and have the integrity to stick to them.
And when you think you have your priorities, ask yourself what you are prepared to give up, what you are prepared to do, to manifest that.
If you aren't prepared to bust your butt in pursuit of something in particular, you are just going to go in circles.
Most important: inherent in your self-description is a comparison to, and judgement of, the people around you. It ain't about them. It's about you. As long as you're looking around and saying "I'm smarter than them." you will be going nowhere fast. If you're thinking: "Gee, what do I need to do to be more like that person," that's not ideal in my view, but it is step in the right direction. A successful life is not a contest with other people, but other people can be guideposts in finding your path.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not all true - there are many smart people that inexplicably do poorly in life. And that is because smart people, just like every other group of person you want to look at, fall into some basic categories.

There are those that will live up to their potential despite any challenge that life or society throws at them.

There are those that will only succeed when properly trained by someone or something that "cares" to - a mentor, a schooling system etc.

And then there are those that will only live up to their potential if they are protected from the challenges everyone else has learnt to handle.

Unfortunately for the third group (of which your friend is a member, and so am I), they are not special enough to worry about. Who cares if they had the possibility of curing cancer or writing the next great American novel? There are enough people on this planet, that they won't be missed and their potential will be mirrored (sometimes at a lesser level) by those who can actually make it happen.

In other words, special in one way, but sadly lacking in the most important way.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares that he was elected Governor. It's Texas.. I've been there, and I live in Florida, we all know that given a dumb enough state, any dumb ass can get elected. (see Jeb Bush)

Why not follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion? 'Given a dumb enough country, any dumbass can become President.' (or equivalent office)

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd recommend college because I know very few employers who will even consider hiring people without college degrees for anything less than factory assembly or janitorial staff.

A total myth, perpetuated by those who actually did waste a large portion of their life in college, and are now trying to rationalize it.

Re:Advice

[Associate]

paxil, been there, done that, may visit again
I've grown a natural lack of concern to damn near everything, what Buddhist call a healthy detachment. (I think that's the right word. You get the idea.) What I really miss is someone to enjoy my misery with. (prep.) But social skills and a general distrust of people make it hard to be social. But that's a whole other psyco-analysis battery, much of which I have figured out, but not found a solution for.
I think I'll go get branded soon. A pig on the left inside forearm and a coiled up rattler on the right.
Oh, and my agnosticism has more to do with my lack of faith in myself, not the knowledge that there is in fact no omnipotent, omniceint god. Quite a silly notion.

Re:Advice

[Ohreally_factor]

I disagree. He is special and unique, just like everyone else.

My advice:
I'm not entirely sure what the big rush is to go to college. I recommend living in a foreign country first, preferably one with a different language and a different culture than your own. Find a university or college town or smaller city in this country and plop yourself down for a year to learn the language. Avoid places with huge tourist industries, but if there is a little tourism, that's good. It will give you an opportunity to meet other travelers and the occassional opportunity to hang out with a countryman (or woman). Also, there's a better chance other people will be able to speak your language.

Now, if you don't have much money to start with, let me suggest a third world country, or at least a developing nation. Work for 6 months, save $300/month, and you'll have enough to live in Mexico or Central America for a year, if you live very frugally. I know students that are renting decent rooms for $75 US in Guanajuato. You can eat pretty well for $100/month, less if you cook your own.

Once you pick up enough of the language, you can look for opportunities to supplement your income. Do you want to take language classes? It might be possible to teach an English class in exchange for a language class.

Travel really does broaden the horizons. Real travel, that is. A two week vacation is generally not long enough to really soak up a different culture.

At the end of the year, evaluate. What do you want to do next? More travel? College? Work? Some combination of the three?

The most important thing is not to get sucked up into the values and expectations of those that haven't really examined life. They'll tell you everything you need to know about being successful*, but they know nothing about being you. If you just focus on being you, or as the parent poster suggested, being the best you, you'll do much better than 99% of the other unique and special people.

*I advise going into plastics.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty sad that your definition of success is whether a corporate master will employ you.

Had revolutionaries, free-thinkers, inventors, musicians, writers thought like you, what kind of dull world this would be.

But we don't think like you. Keep on pleasing your boss; I, I got a soul to worry about.

Re:Advice

[Lemmy Caution]

Hmmn. You may want to consider ABAP programming. Because after a while, you'll envy the dead.

Re:Advice

[Associate]

What's sad is not that I program in ABAP, but I do use SAP at work. So I at least know what you are talking about. Still further the resticted access to the system, all the data manipulation I have to do is usually done in Excel and with VB macros. :O~

Re:Advice

[FueledByRamen]

"He has a fast computer with maya and photoshop, and everything else worthwhile installed. but he has shitty ram that core dumps quite often causing the computer to reboot, and he never takes the time to make a backup!"

Been there, done that (on Linux, so Maya stays, but s/photoshop/FilmGIMP/). Except instead of shitty RAM (but I've had plenty of that too), it was a shitty power supply that could barely support dual Athlons at idle. Kick off a batch render that runs for more than 30 minutes or so, and the comp would reboot. Until one hot day, when it went into coma mode and the PS fried itself. That was quite entertaining.

Oh, now look what I've done. What was the topic again?

I know a few "smart" people who have zero motivation. They could do just about anything with a computer that they wanted (with very few exceptions), but all of them sit on their collective asses and chat on IRC all day. Sound familiar to anyone? Well, if it does, try to do something about it. Try to get them interested in something.

Me? I ran for years protecting the assumption that everyone is as smart as I, but that little holdout has been long since chipped away. I have found myself with the ability to pick up and learn new things, computer-related or not. Everything is a challenge and, as I find myself saying quite often (to justify my position to other, usually): "How hard could it possibly be?" This is the kind of mindset that gets such interesting results as everyone else wheeling up wooden catapults for a project in Physics, and me unloading a 200-pound solid steel Ballista. Taught myself to weld, mainly because I wanted to try it (and not because I was not skilled enough in the art of wood working to build it from wood instead).

Just trying new things has gone a long way towards my figuring out what I want to do with my life (seeing as how I'm only 17 at this point). Take any opportunity you possibly can to try and learn to do something you've never done before, no matter what you think the outcome may be. If all else fails, you'll have another skillset to stuff on the mental dusty shelf in the corner, but you may just find something you like to do.

Re:Advice

[seanw]

wow, that's great. someone writes in asking for advice, and everyone jumps on him with a big stick: you are not that smart or special, get over yourself, etc etc. he didn't ask you to be judge, jury, and moral executioner, ok? he asked for some advice.

maybe you could stop projecting your own insecurities all over him for a few seconds, that would be great.

I have a feeling the root intention of your post was to remind him that a sense of humility is a beneficial thing, and I agree totally with this sentiment.

but why attack him? when he says he's "unusually but non-traditionally bright" it makes me curious--sounds like a potential friend, sounds like the kind of person I wish I met more often in the world. I hear a degree of self-confidence.

when you try to beat him back down, it just seems like more of the narrow-minded judgemental malice that gives me a headache.

ask yourself why you preach humility with this harsh, sarcastic comment. there are better ways

Re:Advice

[NarrMaster]

Like highschool its 90% bullshit

You misspelled 100%

Re:Advice

[innerweb]

Ignore the parent poster. The one thing I have learned in life is that all people are special. Some are special and wonderful, some are special and terrible. Some are just special.

Each and every one of us has strengths and weaknesses. Each and every one of us has different combinations of talents and innate skills. If we are lucky these align themselves, but often they do not. As far as smart being important, it is, but not that much. Other skills are far more important than "smarts". Being on time, showing respect for others, keeping promises (making promises you can keep), keeping your mouth closed unless you have something good to say and many more. I have been terrible at most (if not all) of these "other" skills at one time or another in my life (take prioritizing for instance).

Being smart is nice and can be a leg up on those around you, but only in conjunction with the rest of the important skills. Being humble does not mean to think you are stupid. All my life, so many people have told me how smart I am. I used to believe them. As I have grown older, I have learned to redefine what they say to how smart I am at one or two things compared to them at those things.

It was not me I had to get over. It was my lack of me. Most people who are passionate about something are also smart about that something. That is not to be confused with skilled at a thing, which is the ability to apply the "smartness".

When I put what others want me to do ahead of what I hunger to do, (like how to get paid the most, or have the best career), that is when I make the biggest mistakes. No one can predict the future, and no one but you can really know what you enjoy. The tests can be helpful if you have no clue about yourself, but they only get you started in a direction. Just do what you love, be very good at it, and do not get sidetracked. You may not get rich, but you may get lucky and find happiness with your career (something most people never find).

Oh, yeah. Some big ones... Stay away from partying too much. Some here will disagree with that, it gets in the way. My Freshman year, I received a D- because I broke loose (almost 20 years ago). My last year in school, I almost hit 4.0 (on a 4 point scale). I was much happier the last year, not the first. I kept trying to be Joe Jock (I was a swimmer) and fit in with my team mates. I never would have. I was too different. What I should have done was hang with the computer geek outcasts (in my day, it was social leprosy) who actually were interested in the same things as myself. I would have received a much better grade, dropped the whole swimming thing (or changed to a different Univ) and been around people whom I could truly share something with besides a ton of partying, liquor and women. That stuff is for people who do not have a life.

But, that just shows how not smart I was with so many other things. Being smart non-traditionally is an Einstein thing (I believe he failed High School - traditional schooling, but pursued his passions, and the rest is history). You just need to find your place, and pursue it. I am certain that until he had E=MC**2, he did not have any Hollywood Starlets knocking at his door. Watch these movies, then think about your question again. I hope you see your choice in a different light. (Keep in mind these are people's lives portrayed by Hollywood, but they are well.)

• October Skies
• A Beautiful Mind
• Rudy
• The Other Side Of Heaven

All of these about people who either had or discovered a certain brilliance for something they did. Some started off smart, and had to adjust to our realities. Some started off like the masses and grew into their "smarts". They all did something wonderful and heroic with their abilities.

Good luck. Life is full of unexpected treasures.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, seriously. I didn't realize that so many geeks were fucked up, chronically depressed losers. This is worse than when everyone told that guy to forget about getting a PHD because people with doctorates are "arrogant pricks". Well, they've got good reason to be arrogant from what I see.

Am not concerned about finding work now. There's a reason project managers want to work with cheap labor overseas rather than the thousands in their home countries. They're not psychotics!

Re:Advice

[Tablizer]

Drop out and start an Internet company. I hear that's the way to go these days.

I bet this was posted to a slashdotted topic in 1999, got stuck in a buffer, and just made it in now.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

>> I have always hated school too. It bears no resemblance to the real world ... I have a little less than 2 years left

It's wonderful that only 2 years into college, you've got the real world all figured out. In reality, you haven't reached the best part of an undergraduate education yet, and you certainly haven't gotten an education in the real world.

>> Like highschool its 90% bullshit.

That's code for:

"I think I'm really smart, but I haven't done that well academically. Therefore, school must have been bullshit."

Sure. Basic math, science, and writing skills are a complete waste of time, as are history and the social sciences. Right. You were ready for the real world right out of middle school!

Back to reality again. The general education classes will teach you a LOT about a wide range of things if you're willing to put a little effort into them.

Ah, what do I care? Feel free to go through life a complete ignoramus when it comes to subjects that don't interest your narrow, closed-off mind.

Re:Advice

[spectral]

I realize that it's expensive and nearly impossible, but it seems to me that people that aren't challenged in school and find it boring, should be taught differently. Some people pick stuff up rather quicker than others, myself included. Do I think this is a good trait? yes. Did it lead me to being bored in high school (and college, since I couldn't afford a 'better' one) most of the time? yes.

It seems to me that were I to have been challenged, I might have developed a work ethic. I'm not saying I'm the smartest person ever. I'm not attempting to gloat. I'm just saying that the current educational system is trash. I was bored senseless in high school. I actually slept through most of my classes, and still got A's, because I did the minimum amount of effort required of me to do so, which wasn't much. Now I'm looking for life in the real world and I have no work ethic. Were I to be challenged, I'd probably just give up. I never learned to 'study' for the classes that I needed to, and just ignored them. I didn't fail them, and still graduated with honors, but it was annoying because I didn't get most of what I could from them.

Any time where I can attend, either physically or just mentally (i.e. not daydreaming), any class only 6 times and still get an A is poorly structured for someone such as myself. What do I recommend? Well, one on one education with someone I consider an intellectual and knowledgeable equal on the topic of discussion would have been amazing. But how many people can afford that?

I don't have a solution, but it seems to me that if any structure set up for education is boring to you, then you're either in the wrong field, or it's being taught wrong, at least for the way you learn/think.

Too many times I've sat in a class and not paid attention for 30+ minutes while the teacher/professor explained something that seemed easy enough (took about 5 minutes), then spent the next 25 re-explaining it to one or two people in the class who just didn't get it. No offense to them, but I'd prefer that clarification such as that should be done on their time, not everyone's time.

Mod me down for being a pretentious asshole now, it's rather hard to talk about how you're better in some way than the majority of the population (and frustrated by it) without sounding like one. I really don't think I'm better than anyone else for it, it's just one of my gifts. Others can sing, do artistic things, whatever. Mine was quick understanding of various logical topics/pursuits (math, computers, mechanical/technical drawing.. anything seemingly with set rules instead of arbitrary decisions, though admittedly programming is more of an art than anything else, it's a logical art. Though, most could say that art itself is better thought of in terms of rules and logic as well :))

Re:Advice

[Kiryat Malachi]

Not at all a myth if you ever want to do real engineering, for one thing.

I know a lot of people who work in the auto and aerospace industries. We have a name for the ones who didn't graduate college; "technician".

I love my technicians, but the ones who have been doing it for 10 years make about the same amount of money as me, and I've been out of school (B.S.EE) for about a year.

Re:Advice

[eathan13]

Pfffft.

Insightful? Somebody's getting a little loose with the mods.

There are a lot of intelligent people in this world, granted, but so the fuck what? The kid's looking for advice. Great job, Mr. sensitive, you gave him squat.

He wasn't being boastful. He was being awkward. Show me an intelligent kid that wasn't lost at that age, and most other ages. I was. You?

Kid, good luck. Ignore that last post...

Make an effort to learn about yourself and other people while you're at it. It's well worth the bother...

Re:Advice

[Mycroft_VIII]

Good grief If I can't sympathise with part of that.
It drives me nuts when I can see what is to me the obvious truth and people who can't follow my reasoning (somtimes my fault admitedly) decide I'm wrong because they don't understand. Sometimes thier 'arguements' are so mind numbling stupid I just want to tell them how stupid they are. but I don't, especially when they are my boss.

Mycroft

Re:Advice

[Mycroft_VIII]

I hate to burst your bubble, but #1 is only true with idiot savants and a few other cases. You've bought into a stereotype. And an easy one to buy into as most want to believe in some sort of cosmic fairness. The other reason is a lot of smart people simply don't place priorities the same way as others and get considered clueless for not playing keep up with the Joneses or choose a happy life instead of an ambitious one.

Mycroft

Re:Advice

[sylvester]

Do anything you want, enjoy it, and live off it.

Work very hard suffering mentally at first, and eventually have big payoffs (psychologically and likely financially).

Work very hard suffering mentally the whole way. Rewards come but you push them away because they just interfere with what's important.

Resign yourself to become just a mindless peon.

Your post hit a nerve with a few people, myself included. But it's not clear what choice you're suggesting is right -- or maybe none, but only the last one is wrong?

It's hard to have a serious discussion about this on /., but essentially I've been pondering for a year or two how to balance my ambition (which sometimes seems to overwhelm me) with my ego (which I've been keeping in check since grade school when I realized I wasn't "Uniquely bright", just smart in a narrow way that society likes -- sorta).

To believe that I should pursue my ambition, I (might?) have to give up some aspects of normal life. And I need to buy into my own ego, to believe that I *can* do the kind of things that I want to do. (To take it to the extreme, that would probably be going into politics, with the goal of going for something pretty high-up. Or starting a business, with the goal of changing how people think/buy/don't buy.)

Cheers,
Rob

Re:Advice

[Digital Avatar]

You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You are made of the same decaying organic waste as everything else. We are all part of the same compost heaps.

Tyler's words coming out of my mouth... and I used to be such a nice guy.

Re:Advice

[sylvester]

The real thing you need to do is get over yourself. You're not special. There's lots of people in this world that are just as smart as you. Once you get over yourself, the world is your oyster. "unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' "...jesus...Kill me. Get over yourself.

There's nothing wrong with thinking that you're bright in an unusual way. I generally try to model things as "everybody's equally 'intelligent', but some people are intelligent in ways that don't matter much any more -- 'brute skills' -- while some people (like me, and probably most of 'us') are intelligent in a way that didn't used to matter, but does a lot now -- math, logic and critical thinking." That is my model. Sometimes it breaks down, when I meet people who seem to be very intelligent in many many ways. Sometimes, but not often, I meet someone and I can't even fathom where their intelligence lies, but I try to keep an open mind.

That being said, posting that entire Ask Slashdot without any kind of self-deprecation or ego disclaimer strikes me as...well...a bit egotistical.

-Rob

Re:Advice

[JohnFluxx]

Perhaps the problem is that until you get into a phd or get working, it's hard to find anyone else that is as intelligent as you, so of course you feel left out.

Oh and carpenters and musicians etc.. I'd call that skill, not intelligence.

Re:Advice

[zors]

Give me a fucking break.

Is anyone else getting tired of this bullshit woe-is-me-life-is-pointless-nothing-can-change-bec ause-thats-the-way-the-world-is?

If your life is shitty, change it, do something about it. Shitty things have been happening to people for thousands of years, yet society moves on.

(i'm not just talking to people posting right here right now, this is more of a rant on society)

And yes, you're right, i am a middle class white kid from a good home who's only angst has been mostly self created. I say what i say because i have faith in people. I KNOW that people can change, no matter what their age or personality type. You just have to make the choice and stick to it, all the reasons people have to not change is just a story we make up. Examine almost any problem a person might have in their life and it usually comes down to the choice they have to make, and a story; maybe its what people might think or how hard something could be or actually is.

I just think we ought to give people more credit for their lives than we do, that its basically the luck of the draw with your social standing or personality type or their intelligence.

Re:Advice

[aggieben]

The real thing you need to do is get over yourself. You're not special. There's lots of people in this world that are just as smart as you. Once you get over yourself, the world is your oyster. "unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' "...jesus...Kill me. Get over yourself.

This has got to be the most intelligent thing I've ever read posted to slashdot. Pay attention to this advice kid. Getting over yourself really will go a *long* way to making the world your oyster.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

And how do you actually calculate the volume under a curve? Is that technique described in Kabbalah or something? I know pretty well how to calculate the _area_ under a curve, however.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

The brain is like any other muscle...

Ummm... the brain is not a muscle.

Re:Advice

[Slickmax]

He should come to Romania.

Re:Advice

[MicroBerto]

While I think that arrogant people are the worst kind, I think deep down inside, you need to have a bit of that confidence to get through many situations. Have a little bit, just not too much.

As for the rest of it, I think our friend should go to a big school where it is easy to find a lot of people like him. The reason I like a big school is because there are tons of all kinds of people, so you can branch out and not get stuck in a small world of 100% geeks. It's an important thing to have. And alcohol too :)

Re:Advice

[DoraLives]

Smart is not always what succeeds.

Success itself is a concept that few really delve into with any depth. If you're smart enough to bail out on the whole damned Blueberry Charade, you stand half a chance of achieving a success that the counting of beans simply will not admit even exists.

Throw away the tv, it's poisoning you.

Learn to live low. Discover how to weed the willfully stupid, the insincere, the mindlessly ambitious, and all other less than honorable people from your life and then hold tightly to the few good people who remain, by doing good by them at every opportunity.

Raise one good child. Ask only that your child be honest, intelligent, and kind.

Find a thing outside the mainstream that's worthy of a lifetime of joyous study and practice, fully capable of delivering tremendous hard knocks in addition to delivering sublime feelings of joy and achievement. For me, surfing fits that bill, for you it will be something else.

Do well by strangers and give everyone a chance. Those who attempt to take advantage unfairly, sweep forever from your life that you may move forward to find better folk.

People on their death beds never look back on their lives and measure using things like cars, houses, and material things in general. It's all about love and how you treated, and were treated, by your fellow humans, family in particular.

Good luck figuring this stuff out, it's not easy nor does it come quickly. Eyes kept open will eventually see, however, so by all means do so.

Re:Advice

[tverbeek]

I have always hated school too. It bears no resemblance to the real world. ... Wouldn't that stuff be run at cost if college really was about learning and not about profit?

There are reasons why dorms and meal plans are as expensive as they are... some good (dorms come with custodial services, building managers who double as surrogate parents and crisis intervention counselors, locationlocationlocation) and some not so good (mismanagement, bad contracts, overpaid loafers, etc). Assuming without seeing any of their books that these schools (especially non-profits?) are just trying to gouge the students, is the kind of mistake I made when I was a student and didn't know any better. Now that I've worked at colleges, I've discovered that it's a bit more complicated than that. In which sense, colleges are exactly like the real world.

Re:Advice

[dedalus57]

This is what we need, another smarter than thou, better than thou, know-it-all american living abroad, without a clue what life is about. no wonder the rest of the world hates us.

My advice to Michael is to get a job, some back-busting, physicaly hard labor for very little pay, and stick with it for at least a year. What to do with his life will come to him pretty quickly.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Motzart,Beethoven,Wagner:

were they just skilled human beings or intelligent persons,too smart in many ways?

Wake up guys/girls.

It's both

a)The gift,sthing you have since you were born

and/or

b)practice,practice,PRACTICE.

everything else,as far as i can tell is bullshit.!

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a mortgage. Then get a job you hate but can't quit. Then finally get a better job, only to find the commute is 2.5 a day. Then you will be tired and busy your current problems fill fade away. It's great being an adult.

Re:Advice

[Illissius]

"There's a difference between being smart and wise."

Heh. See sig :).
Intelligence isn't worth a if you don't use it.

Re:Advice

[ResidntGeek]

I dunno about you, but for me high school has so far been complete bullshit because I already knew everything I "learned." Basic math, science, and writing skills are just that, basic. My class in particular spent multiple weeks, in the honors program, to learn things like m/s * s = m, RNA has uracil instead of thymine, and "iez" is the ending for second person plural imperfect in French. That's not a waste of my time?

Re:Advice

[JohnFluxx]

They were skilled, not necessarily particulary intelligent.

You could have someone really stupid, but brilliant on a violin I'm sure.

Re:Advice

[troc]

Erm, 'ello. I'm a bit fick aledgedlee from wot you is sayin' abowt cognitiv'bilitee. Maybe I'l full of myself but it taysts liek a cheze towsti. Yum. Innit.

Where was I. Slashdot has far more "up themselves" teenaged geeky nerds than you will get anywhere outside a Maths and Star Trek convention. Those people will, as is natural at 16 (and on to 15 or so) believe they are the dogs bollocks and that they are better than everyone else.

However if you read the more mature, legible, sensible, well-thought-out, adult posts - which are probably from those of us who have "been there, done that" as it were, you'll realise that most of us (and I mean the human race in general) feel alienated, differently clever (ooh, so politically correct) or whatever at some point in our lives.

For example at school I felt "superior" to most people around me. As an undergrad I realised what a twat I have been at school and that some people might actually be almost as intelligent as me (obvioujsly not quite as intelligent as their exam results were better :). When researching my masters I could look back and see what an immature person I had been as an undergrad and how my attitude towards people I felt were slower than me, or generally less intelligent (i.e. everyone) was a load of bullshit. I still harboured a secret knowledge that I was better than all the other people on the course.

Then it came to my PhD - I was 25, I had travelled the world, lived away from home since I was 18 and I was much more secure and mature. I could look back on even my masters and see how conceited I was at 22! I was surrounded by people of the same intelligence as me - but in differen ways - which is why we were studying different topics! I felt properly grown-up at last and was over all the stupid angst and self-righteous feelings as before.

Now I'm over 30 and I can look back and see that even at 25 I had a lot of growing left to do. I am sure that at 40 I will feel the same way .....

To summarise. get over it :) Grow up. It might take 20 years but the journey is worth it.

Troc.

Re:Advice

[dfghjk]

Ny thoughts exactly. School is as much about teaching you you how to think and learn as it is about filling your head with facts.

Finishing is a problem many bright people have. Once they conquer a challenge they're ready to move on. Discipline makes all the difference.

Re:Advice

[ifwm]

I couldn't disagree more. It's about how to choos a life, get a life, and live that life. Jobs are just tools to be used in pursuit of more important things.

Re:Advice

[RESPAWN]

have more or less relegated college to a chore at this point. I have a little less than 2 years left and I am taking some time off from it and working in my field. I am so much more successful in work environments that it is my sincere hope I won't ever have to go back. Basically college sucks IMHO. Aside from a handful of schools with extremely competitive admissions you are going to be surrounded by complete idiots. After a year you will stop wondering why everyone gets drunk, high, stoned, coked out of their mind every weekend because you will probably be doing it yourself.

I can't say that I really enjoyed college all that much, but I do have to disagree about the comment regarding idiots. Maybe I was lucky and I just knew a lot of smart people, but the one thing that surprised me the most when I went to college was the sheer number of people there just as smart as I was. I was a lot like the poster in high school (in fact, I test as an INTP), probably smarter than most of the people I graduated with yet I cared so little that my GPA was only 3.6 or 3.7. (Despite having the singular distinction of taking more AP classes than anybody else I graduated with.) Frankly, it was a kind of a slap in the face when I got to college and realized that I might actually have to do some work if I wanted to compete academically.

I have to disgree, however, that attending college is an entirely useless enterprise. Many employers won't even look at you if you don't have a college degree. Maybe it's true that, once you're in the field for a few years and have gained some experience, then you will find it easier to get jobs, but then you also run into some problems where some companies will refuse to promote people past a certain point if they don't have a college education. It may not be fair, but it happens.

I'm not entirely certain that my college lived up to my expectations of what a place of higher learning should be, but I am still glad that I went. Don't look at college from the perspective that it will be giving you everything you need to be successful for the rest of your life. It won't. Just look at it as a means to help you get farther in life. Put in your time, and get your degree. Employers like to see qualifications such as college degrees. It makes them feel more confident that you will be able to do the job.

Lastly, and I hate to sound so trite here, but you will grow more as a person while at college. Especially if you go away from home so that you are somewhat on your own and don't have your parents to use as a safety net. While at college you will grow and mature and learn a lot more about working with the different kinds of people that you meet out in the "real world."

Re:Advice

[Facekhan]

Actually I tended to like my general education classes more than my major classes. At least in core classes I did not have to sit through things I already knew.

A person may need a college degree out in the job world, but chances are they don't need a college "education". Most college graduates don't work in their major field and many don't even work in jobs that have any use for a degreed person at all.

I attended a large private university and it probably does suck more than most schools as evidenced by its dismal 74% freshmen retention rate.

People who don't like it when others bash college always have the same refrain "you are a know-it-all kid...." I love it when this comes from people who never even went to college themselves or from people who majored in bullshit. Yeah my grades are only ok but I certainly was not flunking out. One of the few classes I failed was the result of being the only one in the class who did not blatantly cheat. The professor left the room during exams and it was lets compare answer time.

Why is it that everyone who feels they do not like college has to be wrong? Do you think colleges are run by ancient bearded men in robes who have already thought of everything? Colleges hire incompetent staff working for a slave wage except for the top administrators making hundreds of thousands dollars plus incredible personal benefits. Professors are almost all part-timers and TA's at most schools and the former get paid about the same rate as a highschool teacher in a poor district and the TA's barely get anything at all.

Which brings me to my other piece of advice, DON'T pay for Grad school. Work at the school, do grad school for free, only suckers pay for it. If you only saw the kinds of easy jobs that grad students got at my school for which they worked 30 hours a week and got 9 credits of free grad school a semester. You know what a help desk support specialist does? She sits there and revises her resume for 6 months straight for which she is paid 5 thousand dollars worth of classes. The undergraduate technicians get 7 bucks an hour to drive their own cars around campus at their own expense and fix whiny girl's computers.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL. Awesome troll!!

It gets better:

Lots of people I meet think I should have a 4.0 easy, but I'm pretty far from it.

Non-traditionally bright indeed. LOL LOL LOL What a tool!

Re:Advice

[Facekhan]

Most valuable college class: English Composition 1 & 2, closely followed by Speech.

If you can write well, you can bullshit through almost anything. It really does help at work. Speech? Just make your first speech a practice run at asking for a raise and you see the point of not being nervous speaking in front of people. I am quite confident I will be getting a 50% raise tommorrow afternoon.

Least Valuable college class: Philosophy of Science closely followed by Survey of computers in business (ie microsoft propoganda, bad tech info, and half a MOUS course. )

Re:Advice

[Jello7]

Actually, IQ is usually split into 3 parts these days:
1. Analytical - usually thought of as all of traditional IQ
2. Social or political - dealing with people (politicians have high scores here)
3. Practical - building things and reading maps

These have been shown to be independent. Someone could have very little 1, but lots of 2, for instance.

Re:Advice

[Feanturi]

The real thing you need to do is get over yourself. You're not special.

Perhaps you're lucky enough to be surrounded by other bright people to interact with, but most of us are surrounded by 'norms'. Pretty hard not to feel special.

Re:Advice

[sydb]

Learn to live low. Discover how to weed the willfully stupid, the insincere, the mindlessly ambitious, and all other less than honorable people from your life and then hold tightly to the few good people who remain, by doing good by them at every opportunity.

This has been my watchword all my life. I was left with one amazing friend, we had shared values, did everything together, we could have raging rows (I threw a cafetiere filled with water over him once for being lazy) and mintes later be joking about it. Then he died. I mean, not after I threw water over him, a couple of years later.

My, how I now wish I had been a social whore like all the people I used to scorn...

Re:Advice

[kunudo]

Have you been outside the town(ship) where you were born?

Re:Advice

[tombeard]

YHBT,YHL,HAND.

Re:Advice

[dedalus57]

lived and worked in Mexico for two and a half years.

worked as a carpenter for 15 years.

been in over a dozen foreign countries.

so i guess i have a little experience in being a smarter than thou :>

Re:Advice

[PhoenixFlare]

People who don't like it when others bash college always have the same refrain "you are a know-it-all kid...." I love it when this comes from people who never even went to college themselves or from people who majored in bullshit.

Fine, then you can hear it from someone that has gone to college in an Information Technology program and is about to finish (16 credit-hours left) - generally, people that claim college is a waste of time/boring/etc. are those that think they learned everything they need to know by the end of high school, and sound like damned know-it-alls.

One of the few classes I failed was the result of being the only one in the class who did not blatantly cheat. The professor left the room during exams and it was lets compare answer time.

Professors are almost all part-timers and TA's at most schools and the former get paid about the same rate as a highschool teacher in a poor district and the TA's barely get anything at all.

Sounds like you went to/are going to a pretty shoddy school. Definately reminds one of why research is so important before making a final choice to attend anywhere.

Did you visit the school beforehand, research it online, talk to current students, anything? You sound like you stayed wherever you were for at least a couple years...Why did you hang around and waste money if the conditions were poor like that?

Why is it that everyone who feels they do not like college has to be wrong?

You personally are not the worst example i've seen of such behavior, but usually, it's because people that think college is a waste feel the need to pop into discussions with people that DO think college is useful, and spout as much negativity as possible.

Just because college was not right for you, does not mean it wouldn't be right for the rest of the world as well.

Do you think colleges are run by ancient bearded men in robes who have already thought of everything?

Actually, the president of the university I attend is really not all that popular among the student body, and regularly satired and criticized in campus publications along with other members of the administration. That doesn't stop most people here from getting something out of their time spent, though.

The undergraduate technicians get 7 bucks an hour to drive their own cars around campus at their own expense and fix whiny girl's computers.

Unless you're doing something specialized or at a higher level, I don't see why this is out of the ordinary at all. Not everyone goes to schools near the giant cities that pay their regular student employees $10+ per hour.

Re:Advice

[j-pimp]

My advice to Michael is to get a job, some back-busting, physicaly hard labor for very little pay, and stick with it for at least a year. What to do with his life will come to him pretty quickly.
That would only work if said know it all American were an elitists that thought himself better than his coworkers at said shit paying, back breaking job. Its not that hard to find a nice cushy low paying job that requiresd no skills. Most of the lazy people I know work those kinds of jobs. Their not much different thatn the high paying cushy low work jobs, other than they pay less.

I failed out of college due to laziness, I make about 35% of what I shoudld make. You know why I want to go back to college, becasue I realized alot of the computer books on my to read list are text books from courses I never made it to. Thats my big motivator. Sure I think about going to college for more money, but I also think I should join the gym. Then I remember that I never liked sports much.

Re:Advice

[sylvester]

You've bought into a stereotype. And an easy one to buy into as most want to believe in some sort of cosmic fairness. The other reason is a lot of smart people simply don't place priorities the same way as others and get considered clueless for not playing keep up with the Joneses or choose a happy life instead of an ambitious one.

I buy into the stereotype, but primarily as a model, not as reality. It helps me remember to look for people's gifts and talents when they appear to be stupid. And it's a model I can never disprove, so it's easy enough to hang onto.

-Rob

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Take Dufus in the Whitehouse for example. Few people would claim that he is an original thinker or highly knowledgable.

I guess that Harvard gives out MBAs by correspondence course, then. When you get your MBA from Harvard, be sure and let everyone know. Until then, enjoy a nice tall glass of STFU.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Get over yourself. is a catch phrase that people who aren't that bright will say. It's true that there are plenty of bright people in the world, but it's not a matter of getting over yourself about it.

What happens so often in the world is that these bright people actually end up listening the advice of morons like you, and "get over themselves" by inserting themselves into an insipid dull way of life, where they fit into the mold. End up marrying having kids, the suburban house, an SUV, and then the midlife crisis... just like *everyone* else.

But you see, some people that are brighter than you, not necessarily more intelligent mind you, because Mensa members are not always so bright when it comes to living life properly, actually understand that learning goes on forever, and that you will never stop doing that. And that life will become actually enjoyable to you if you keep that in mind.

My greatest advice to you (author, not parent post) is to always cultivate your interests. Never let yourself get dulled down. If you are having problems getting through school, remember that it's not that big of a deal, but also remember that running away from it is not going to magically transport you into a life where there are no problems (it's probably going to be quite the opposite actually). So live life today (shool or whatever), with the knowledge that it's the now that counts, and that there is no promised land for the brights that awaits you. Then you will realize that you are already in that land.

To illustrate my point: I started out like you in high school. I was about two years ahead of my class in Math for the longest time. And yet, I never studied. People gave me flack for that. Then I finally came to university, people used to always say "you're going to have to study at university you know", but that never happened either. I was averagely good. Not spectacular, but not bad at all either (say around 75%). I started a degree in pure Physics, converted to pure math, and finally went to comp-sci... in my second year, I found a job as a programmer, and decided to dive into that. I did that heavily for 4 years and decided enough of this stress filled life (of a programmer). So I quit my job as a full timer, and started working contract. If I could make half the money I made full time, and work only half the time, why wouldn't I take that! Anyways, in the meanwhile, I changed cities, and so never got to finish my degree. Don't regret it the least bit.

The twist here is that while I was programming like a crazy man, I needed to let out my steam, and I accidentally stumbled upon a circus school near where I worked. Well, two years later, at age 25 with no background in gym or antyhing like that, I'm doing circus now (Aerial tissue if you must know).

And you know what: I know nothing I have now is permanent. I might not even be doing any of this in 5 years.

I realized that my being bright didn't mean that I could be rich and famous, and the best. That's important: I never tried to be the best at this or that... sure I strived to be as good as possible, but what I realized was that being bright meant that I could navigate my way through life in any direction I wanted.

So I say, amen, recognize you *are* bright, and *use* it for christ' sake. There are enough of those SUV driving suburban mid life crisesers out there as it is...

Re:Advice

[Oligonicella]

"He is special and unique, just like everyone else."

And that means he's not unique or special.

Someone who can't make a nonselfcontradictory leading paragraph shouldn't be ladeling out advice on life pursuits.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, what angry sounding rants and raves. But what exactly is the end goal of all this education ? As the last decade has gone to show a degree does not necessarily mean success.

You might not get stuck in a job where you are up on a roof nailing down shingles for $9-12 an hour. You might however get stuck in a job where you're on salary and they never let you go home.

Now crappy/ustable jobs are almost a rule for getting started in a career. where you really have to be considiering your future is about 6-10 years into that type of job though.

Re:Advice

[Oligonicella]

Perhaps your linguistic skills have come into play in your life?

Re:Advice

[flyneye]

I somewhat agree with some of what you say.
Sucess however is measured in terms of personal happiness,not cash.
Example:I am non-traditionally bright.I am an abnormal walking ball of physics,philosophy,luthiery,electronics,music,comp uters and beer brewing.Not a single degree or certification(yet).
Circumstance in life actually prevented me from entering college.(not that I dont take charge of my own education or continue schooling,I do)
For 20 years I was content to work a warehouse job steadily while pursuing my self-education on the side.Occasionally my talents would bring money,not much,but,money you can't take with you.Experience is the only thing you really own in this life.
Make yourself happy with whatever you do and dont do things you dont like.
I am rising upward to new areas constantly.Always finding something new I want to do next.(lately this involves reopening an old movieplex as an alcohol/entertainmentplex with 14 bars.)
My Advise is an old quote "do what thou wilt and hurt no one " just as long as you DO something.

Re:Advice

[Myrrh]

Volume under a curve?

Don't you mean area?

Re:Advice

[Ohreally_factor]

And some one with no sense of humor shou. . . .

Oh, wait, this is /.

(By the way, I'm not sure of the origin of "You're special and unique, just like everyone else," but my friend Petro uses it as his .sig. Just wanted to give proper attribution.)

Re:Advice

[deranged unix nut]

Well, maybe I personally know a disproportionate number of idiot savants.

It may be that they don't place priorities the same way and get clueless, but it still results in them doing stupid things, and I am not talking about keeping up with the Joneses.

One example - Calling in sick, going sailing for the day, and returning the next day with a bright red suntan.

I could easily give a dozen examples, each person is very smart in several areas, but frequently (or consistently) does something that I would consider stupid and by doing so they reduce their long term happiness, employment opportunities, and/or health.

Re:Advice

[Ohreally_factor]

This is what we need, another smarter than thou, better than thou, know-it-all american living abroad, without a clue what life is about.

Don't like others horning in on your shtick? Relax, I suggested Gto., not SMA. He won't be on your territory. Pinche Americano.

Re:Advice

[Lost Engineer]

Now I know I should RTFP (post) but it was really long. Lemme just say this. Don't work too hard at it either or you just might find that youve spent your whole life working and have jack shit to show for it. My advice is to enjoy your life and be on the look out for the one thing that makes you either (a) very rich or (b) very happy. Then work your ass off.

Re:Advice

[dedalus57]

I lived in Guanajuato. I liked it there, but it was a middle-class college town, like Amherst or Berkley. And i had a job, restoring landmark buildings.

And i'm not the one whining about my smartness being a curse.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Here in the U.S, you can pass all your "academic" classes, and still fail to graduate high school due to lack of physical education credits.

In order to get the P.E. credits, you have to "dress out" (change you clothes when ordered) and participate in mundane shit like softball.

So, apparently stripping in front of your peers at the behest of an authority figure is a "life skill" that should be required of everyone.

Perhaps we're seeding a new generation of pr0n stars...

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't think we know everything; we know that you don't know what we need to know. :)

Re:Advice

[PhoenixFlare]

But do you know that we know that we don't need to know what you want us to know?

Re:Advice

[t1m0r4n]

I'm not entirely sure what the big rush is to go to college. I recommend living in a foreign country first, preferably one with a different language and a different culture than your own. Find a university or college town or smaller city in this country and plop yourself down for a year to learn the language.

I strongly agree with this. I went to college because everyone else did. It was expected. If I was smart I would have worked full time after highschool and taken one class at a time until I was ready for full time college. Instead I just partied every night and flunked out. Then did the same thing again at a different school after ignoring the first college on my application. I sounded just like the submitter of this question when I was 18. STUPID.

No dishonor in working whatever job can be found until you have a better idea of what direction you want to go with your life. Learning a new language and visiting a new country can do wonders. (Been there, done that, loved it.) Mexico is a great choice. The people I met were very friendly and helpful despite my lacking Spanish skills. I was denied a legal work permit, but there are ways around that. The best part of going to a new land where you know nobody is that you will have to submit and learn to rely on people you don't know, and, in turn, you will have to gain their trust. The lack of language skills will improve your ability to comminicate.

Quite simply, I don't think everyone is ready for college at 18. Yes, a college degree is a very good thing, but you don't need it immediately. Chances are an 18 year old kid today is going to live to 100. What's the rush to get a good job and settle down? Wait too long, and you'll be out of sync with your age group, which will be difficult. But, killing a couple of years ain't a big deal.

Re:Advice

[tom's a-cold]

My advice: I'm not entirely sure what the big rush is to go to college. I recommend living in a foreign country first, preferably one with a different language and a different culture than your own. Find a university or college town or smaller city in this country and plop yourself down for a year to learn the language. Avoid places with huge tourist industries, but if there is a little tourism, that's good.

That's excellent advice, my eldest son's planning to do that in a remote corner of Europe when he finishes high school and I think it's a good way to force yourself to grow. My son's situation is kind of different than the poster though, since he has been unnervingly consistent since early childhood about his career direction, and he doesn't regard himself a boy genius. But even in his case, poor normal person, I think it's a great idea.

Me, I dropped out of college for two years and lived in a squat (hey, it was the late 70's) in a city 1000 miles from home. Even such internal moves can be worthwhile. Poverty and desperation focuses the mind, as does the sight of members of your peer group failing to survive (literally). That puts everything else into a very stark perspective. Sounds harsh, but it definitely got me out of navel-gazing mode and made me more externally focused.

Re:Advice

[Lt.Hawkins]

what is the volume between z=xy and z=0

Re:Advice

[kscguru]

Origin: it's one of the dis-inspiration posters.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Least Valuable college class: Philosophy of Science
-----

It was History & Philosophy of Science for me, and it was valuable to understand how we have come to the scientific conclusions we have today, for there are yet some who deny even the most obvious of them.

My least valuable course was "Death & Dying" as I already had had enough encounters with it among the people I know and love. In the end, I got out of taking it entirely.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

I was denied a legal work permit, but there are ways around that.

What you worked illegally in Mexico? Oh great, but when they come over here looking for opportunities people want them lynched.

Re:Advice

[blobglob]

Ah yes, this one to be exact.

Re:Advice

[Ohreally_factor]

like Amherst or Berkley

La comparación ha demostrado que no puedes entender nada. Creo que no tengas la capacidad para cambiar y para aprender, sin embargo, donde quiera que vas. Faltas las capacidades, no eres capaz para saber nada. Por eso, necesitas callarte. Tu pinche boca necesita cerrar.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

sounds like a big fish in a small pond

Re:Advice

[Otto]

...or read all of the slashdot posting for a week.

Holy shit, dude. The idea is to get him to do something that's hard, not to actually melt the man's brain.

Re:Advice

[Dogtanian]

The brain is like any other muscle

Uh... the brain is most definitely not a muscle!

Re:Advice

[dedalus57]

Im sorry you think my comparison reveals i know nothing. Guanajato has 2 orchestras, a university, and is the seat of the state government, with one of the highest ratios of middle class people per capita in the whole of Guanajuato.

I'm truly sorry if i insulted you, but because i disagree with you i see no reason for you to be rude. Perhaps we could agree on our love of Mexico and its good people and let it go at that?

Re:Advice

[j-pimp]

No I failed those english classes because I never handed in a paper. I found that if I slow down my typing just a we bit (like I'm doing now), my typos are reduced 95%. I could proofread, but I can barely stand having auto spell check turned on on my email at work. However, my boss kept complaining about my spelling.

Now apperances are important as I've learned, much to my dismay. However, this is a fucking anonymous forum, and Iwill communicate in the manner I wish to. That includes using obsenities, the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers like myself.

Re:Advice

[God! Awful 2]

If you can write well, you can bullshit through almost anything. It really does help at work.

I can write well, and that ability helped me to bullshit my way through English class (e.g. writing essays about books I never read), but it never helped me BS my way through linear algebra or electronic devices.

In the workplace, this ability actually hinders me, as I compulsively spend time editing technical documents for grammar when no one else cares.

-a

Re:Advice

[CAIMLAS]

If basic math, science, and writing skills could be learned effectively in high school, then maybe you'd be correct.

Public education merely gives a small, biased subset of information about the world ahead.

As it stands, a relatively intelligent person with even a small amount of motivation could knock off your average 4-year high school level of knowledge in under a year without too much pain or suffering. Public school is a joke. Him fingering it as bullshit speaks nothing of his particular level of academic success. I got A's in high school, completed in 3 years, and I will say as well: high school is bullshit. College is, for the most part, bullshit. People graduate high school all the time as illiterate fools. Quite often there are illiterate college graduates, and even more often, they're simply uneducated.

Re:Advice

[kfg]

I am sure that at 40 I will feel the same way .....

I'm sure you will. I look back at it rather fondly myself.

KFG

Re:Advice

[Phervian]

I don't have a college degree. I am working as a "Lead Diffusion Technician" for a large corporation. I had been doing this job hoping that another position as a Network Engineer (I really wanted) would open. The position opened, and I interviwed for it, and I was turned down. The part that really is frustrating is the person they hired has a poor work ethic, has zero experience, did a poor interview, but has a college degree in a non-related field. I was told that they felt I wouldn't be able to handle engineering level issues. I have had numerous entries in my file about stream lining the production process and dealing with engineering level issues in my current position. I even have a few years experience! But I was turned down because I do not have a college degree. I have read studies that show at higher non-entry level positions workers without college degrees are on average more productive. I have found this to be true(they have to work harder to get there), but it doesn't matter. The last poster was correct, "most companies are not willing to take a chance with you, however promising you claim to be."

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

>I have always hated school too.

----
Nowadays everybody who dislikes school and has the attention span of a gnat thinks he's a fucking genius.

Re:Advice

[Thu Anon Coward]

Perhaps we're seeding a new generation of pr0n stars...

yeah, but think of the money you can make just for getting laid all the time! :)

Re:Advice

[eliktronik]

I believe that's volume between two surfaces.

Re:Advice

[Basehart]

Crap...a job is about working for the man. It's not a tool, it's a life sentence.

Re:Advice

[SatanicPuppy]

Agreed. I've got a genius level IQ (Which ain't as cool as it sounds...120+ is considered genius level) and I feel like a moron half the time. And the more "non-traditionally" bright you are, the more trouble that you're going to have convincing very conventional employers who are good at measuring conventional intelligence that you are the right person for their (almost certainly) conventional job opening.

In the long run, a lot of it will depend on abilities other than your pure intelligence. If you have no communications skills, if you have no common sense, if you go around thinking you're smarter than everyone, you're going to have to BE smarter than everyone, or you're going to be unemployed.

Re:Advice

[osgeek]

Heh, "GBW"...

Dumb shit.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Back to reality again. The general education classes will teach you a LOT about a wide range of things if you're willing to put a little effort into them.

That's code for:

"I did really well in school, and it pisses me off that people keep pooh-poohing the fact I'm a successful brown-noser."

Awww. Poor baby. The fact you had good grades not enough?

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

High school can be bullshit if you're smart. If you're self-taught, or have parents who were interested in teaching you as a child, you could already know half of it. And when you know half of the stuff you're being taught already, you tend to become very bored. Remedy? Pay attention? Ha! If you're also smart, and self taught, or again taught many things by your parents as a child, you've learned to do things on your own without being told to by your teacher.

You don't spend class re-learning what you already know, you spend it learning new things, and then when something you didn't learn pops up you miss it. This is what happened to me. I know I didn't work nearly as hard as I should have, and it was a very big failing of mine. But, I'm doing just fine.

The only thing is that you have to be broad in your self-teachings and it won't be nearly as damaging to miss tidbits of information from class. When I was in high school I was learning about WW2 and the first Arab-Israeli war on my own while the rest of 'em were learning stuff that I *had* known from middle school. I was also teaching my self physics when I was in chem, and calc when I was in trig. So, moral of the story, it's great to work hard and get 4.3s but learning diverse things on your own is not too shabby either, especially when you can impress teachers with it. They'll be more understanding.

Re:Advice

[Mycroft_VIII]

I wan't talking about run of the mill dumb-ass mistakes that everyone makes. I was talking about the assumption that if someone is highly intelligent, they must be totaly lacking in social skills, common sense, or wisdom disproportionate to society at large. It tends to be the opposite. Everyone doese somthing stupid from time to time.

Mycroft

Re:Advice

[Joe Tie.]

>> Like highschool its 90% bullshit. That's code for: "I think I'm really smart, but I haven't done that well academically. Therefore, school must have been bullshit." Sure. Basic math, science, and writing skills are a complete waste of time, as are history and the social sciences. Right. You were ready for the real world right out of middle school!

I have to pull a bullshit on your call of bullshit. In theory I totally agree with you about the importance of general education. But I have to side with the parent on this. The reason is because in many, possibly even most cases, highschool isn't actually going to teach any of this. My own was so busy catering to the slowest kids in the class that we never made much progress, and never, ever, got into the actual reasons for the facts presented to us for memorization. I think the most depressing example is science classes. Almost anyone in the US should have had three or four years of high school science education. After getting out, how many of them could actually sit down and give a real explanation of potential weakness in an experimental design? It's one of the most basic parts of science, and yet one that's almost always neglected in favor of rote memorisation and blind trust. Instead of having the tools to demand to actually see the data involved in any study, the population at large can at best beg an equally ill-informed reporter to sound it out for them. And no, I didn't do badly in highschool. I finished with an A average, which included skipping constantly and sleeping in class. I'm willing to concede that my own highschool may have been one of the worse examples, but from what I've seen it appears to be more a case of severity of problem rather than lack of it in other schools.

Re:Advice

[ipfwadm]

Actually, the president of the university I attend is really not all that popular among the student body, and regularly satired and criticized in campus publications along with other members of the administration.

That's cause Simone's a dipshit :-) I graduated from RIT with a CS degree last year.

That doesn't stop most people here from getting something out of their time spent, though.

I can't say I was the greatest fan of RIT, but I certainly would not extend that to saying college in general is a waste of time, like the grandparent poster did. And hey, I had a good job lined up before graduation (a place I had had a co-op at), so it couldn't have been all bad, right?

Re:Advice

[deranged unix nut]

I am not assuming that highly intelligent people lack something else, I am observing that many people who have heavily focused in one area tend to systematically make mistakes in other areas.

This doesn't mean that everyone who is technically intelligent is a social dweebe, in fact some of the most socially adept people that I know are also highly technical.

I also wouldn't discount the possibility that I work with a number of people who are borderline idiot savants. I have even paused in meetings at work as I noticed that everyone in the room was involved in one quirky behavior or another.

I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt, or maybe two or three, and I try hard not to make assumptions about people, but my observations make me cautious about being over-confident in my intelligence.

Re:Advice

[slowbad]

you need to do is get over yourself. You're not special. There's lots of people in this world

AMEN. Find something in High School that you like, and devote a mere
90 minutes a day to studying everything else and wiseguy WILL have a 4.0

Find something in any college that you like, and "find" just three hours a day
to studying everything else and you WILL be an honor student if you're smart.

--
Work. Study. Learn. Repeat.

NO EXCUSES for lazy slackers.

Re:Advice

[Laxori666]

exactly what i was going to suggest! Go to Romania! Good food, pretty women, nice people, what more do you want.

Re:Advice

[Zeinfeld]

Take Dufus in the Whitehouse for example. Few people would claim that he is an original thinker or highly knowledgable.
>I guess that Harvard gives out MBAs by correspondence course, then. When you get your MBA from Harvard, be sure and let everyone know. Until then, enjoy a nice tall glass of STFU.

Since when was a Harvard MBA the crowning peak of academic achievement? It is far from the highest degree Harvard has to offer. I have a doctorate from a much older university that is at least as prestigeous.

You do not need to be an original thinker to get an MBA, you certainly do not need to be highly knowledgable. All you need to do to pass is scrape through some exams which by all accounts is what Dufus did.

The quality of Dufus's degree is pretty much demonstrated by his mediocre business performance. His businesses all failed until he met a group of guys looking for someone to front for their scheme to milk a fortune in subsidies from the Texas taxpayers through buying the Texas Rangers.

I am sure there are some things Dufus excells at. Original thinking is not one of them.

Re:Advice

[bzipitidoo]

disciplined, tiring, rigorous work

Why is it "work" has to be unpleasant? Granted, can't see what could be pleasant about toiling 80 plus hours a week in a sweatshop that makes clothes. Part of the definition,I guess-- play is the antonym of work. Need some new definitions; it's poisonous to think work and fun are exclusive. Seems too many managers think they can make the help deliver more and faster by pushing and stressing them to the ragged edge. If you're having fun, then you must not be working hard enough, never mind how productive you are. This exclusive thinking manifests as feeling that time "wasted" on fun could've been used to do work. All that's not to deny that getting things accomplished often does involve tedious, boring, repetitive or otherwise unpleasant activities, but those activities ought to be secondary to work one enjoys.

Skip the Alaskan fishing boat "no pain no gain" nonsense. Doing the #1 most dangerous job in the world is "no pain no gain" on steroids. I hear all the time about people (type Ts?) who find their life meanings that way. Are you that sort? No? It works for them; great. Doesn't mean it works for ordinary mortals.

If you really are so uniquely bright, try to parlay some of that into wisdom. Life doesn't have to suck, and work doesn't have to be solely for the paycheck.

Re:Advice

[ninewands]

Quoth the poster:

A person may need a college degree out in the job world, but chances are they don't need a college "education".

On the contrary, The "education" part of college counts MUCH more than your specialized major courses. A major in CS, math, engineering, or other technical subject make you qualified to work as an entry-level nerd for a few years. The core requirements for a BS degree give you things outside your technical field that make you able to "flesh out" your technical work in a broader context.

Most college graduates don't work in their major field and many don't even work in jobs that have any use for a degreed person at all.

You make my point for me ... in fact, I make my OWN point just by living. I have a BS in Biology and one in Engineering (non-specialized inter-disciplinary program from 25 years ago). I also have a JD ... what do I do for a living? Admin UNIX systems for a major University. Why? I like the environment and the people, and I don't have to put up with clients' BS.

Just remember, in almost every survey taken by a major business publication in the last 30 years, the most common undergraduate degree among CEOs of major corporations is a BA in Liberal Arts.

Care to try and tell me again how the "education" part of college has little, if any, value?

Re:Advice

[tiger_omega]

> If you can't finish something, you'll never succeed at anything.

Leonardo da Vinci was notorious for not finishing off what he had started. It still didn't stop him from being considered one of the greatest minds of all time.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

The general education classes will teach you a LOT about a wide range of things if you're willing to put a little effort into them.

Google will teach you a LOT about a wide range of things if you're willing to put a little effort into it. Really, the internet has made post-secondary education deprecated for many fields, especially technology based ones.

Re:Advice

[drpentode]

Being a great writer helps me explain techie stuff to non-techie people (i.e., the people who sign my checks). My communications skills helped me double my salary in only a few months.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, this is exactly what we need more of on slashdot...political armchair quarterbacking from socially-disenfranchised geeks that have never done anything that had the slightest effect, positive OR negative, on the political direction their country has taken.
That 'dufus' runs the country, and arguably the world, that you are an insignificant blip on.

Re:Advice

[kumanopuusan]

But it is highly unlikely that you are 'differently smart' if you are getting straight Ds and Es in all your courses.

I think you have to be 'differently smart to get Es. ;-)

Re:Advice

[Magius_AR]

It's wonderful that only 2 years into college, you've got the real world all figured out. In reality, you haven't reached the best part of an undergraduate education yet, and you certainly haven't gotten an education in the real world

Well I'm a fella with a B.S. degree, 3 years out (working experience), who is halfway to the end of my M.S. and I largely agree with the poster that school bears little resemblance to the real world.

School favors those that can test well, thrive under intense time restraints, and have good memorization skills. With the exception of the intense time restraints, these skills carry over very poorly to the job market, where we use references and tools regularly to assist in our work. Oh, and understanding a concept/theory and applying it effectively are also two entirely different ballparks as well.

Sure. Basic math, science, and writing skills are a complete waste of time, as are history and the social sciences. Right. You were ready for the real world right out of middle school! Back to reality again. The general education classes will teach you a LOT about a wide range of things if you're willing to put a little effort into them.

Reality? How much of grade/middle/highschool do YOU remember? I remember being forced to memorize all the presidents in order, as well as all the states and their capitals. Needless to say, this random bout of memorization proved to be just about as useless as I'd imagined it would be (and to this day I've already forgotten a whole slew of them as well). Why you feel a need to criticize people who see early schooling as largely a busywork exercise with lots of the above is beyond me. I'm all for being diverse and learning new things, but don't waste my time (no, not even as a child)

Re:Advice

[giveuptheghost]

I believe that everyone has a different path in life. Suffice it to say, just because someone is a "genius" doesn't mean that he/she should or will achieve a 4.0 GPA, get a Ph.D., etc. Indeed, he/she may very well end up in the Air Force with an unusually large amount of brain power and perhaps do some things completely unheard of with it: Maybe finally sniff out Bin Laden, or maybe just hit on female cadets. (Ever watch M.A.S.H.? It's not reality but certainly relative: There are actually a few smarties in the Forces, as much as you may wish to believe it's the consolation prize.)

Your idea of success is a social one, and an unfortunate one at that. "Why didn't he succeed?" He's not dead yet, is he? He and you have the rest of your lives yet to achieve success--enumerating on what you "have heard" of him right now and your own current "successes" is highly prone to uprooting later.

No, not every great career requires a college education, but many do, particularly mainstream, urban-centered ones that employ many others. But if you're independent (many people don't have "bosses" per se); if you have great ideas and/or talents (the arts, anyone?); if you're not leeching off pre-existing, larger-scale systems, you don't necessarily have to have degree(s) in higher education to be "successful" in life. But often times you do.

Re: Advice

[waldoj]

>> Like highschool its 90% bullshit.

That's code for:

"I think I'm really smart, but I haven't done that well academically. Therefore, school must have been bullshit."

I've got a couple of semesters left in college. I'm a straight-A student, having delayed college for 5 years while I did the .com thing in the late '90s and early '00s. I feel that I'm well grounded enough to say that, indeed, college is 90% bullshit. I can't say for certain about high school -- I dropped out after two years, because it, too, was bullshit.

-Waldo Jaquith

Re:Advice

[PMuse]

tha_mink wrote: The real thing you need to do is get over yourself. You're not special. There's lots of people in this world that are just as smart as you.

ldspartan wrote: don't think you're a fucking genius because you're the smartest kid in your highschool. . . . College is a totally different story, particularly if you're going to a good one. You'll meet people there who are intelligent, motivated, and personable.

(OK, the odds that anyone is still reading this tread are slim and none, but...)

Guys! Give the kid a break. He didn't claim to be "the smartest kid in his school". In fact, he didn't compare himself to anyone. His description, if anything, was pretty modest compared to how a lot of people here would describe themselves. And it was honest. Did you hear him say that he'd had such problems with his dichotomy between extreme-focus and lack-of-focus that he'd consulted a medical professional? Or weren't you listening?

He came here with a cri de coeur, seeking advise on how to be him. He asked slashdot because he hoped that many of us were just like him. He expects that many of us are as smart as him, some less so, and some a damned sight smarter. Y'all were so busy being defensive that you forgot to be flattered by being asked the question in the first place.

This is the parable of the ugly duckling. Here's the submitter, trying to be a duck and not having such a great time of it. Then he sees some other ducklings on slashdot that look a lot like him. He asks them, "How can I be a successful duck?" We owe him a good answer to that. We need to tell him that maybe he can learn to be a successful duck, but maybe he's actually a swan. Heck, he could even be a goose like me, which is also not so bad a thing to be.

Kid, I applaud you for the question. Please don't take any of this negative stuff in some of these answers to heart. There are lots of streams to swim in around here. Also, flying kicks ass whenever you get a chance to do it. Start with what everyone here agrees on: get your ass to college. Find a way to make yourself rack up some GPA and test score numbers that will get you in. Every (geek) path that starts with college is infinitely more interesting that those that don't.

Next up, at college, find a group of people to hang out with that you respect. Choose people that you want to become like in one way or another. Why? Because you will become like those people. There's almost no avoiding it. It's like entropy -- it just sort of creeps up on you. Maybe they're smarter than you, maybe they're funnier, maybe they're more upright, maybe they're better softball players. Doesn't matter.

Finally, keep asking questions. An awful lot of people on here are just like you and some of them, some, like it.

Re:Advice

[PMuse]

However if you read the more mature, legible, sensible, well-thought-out, adult posts - which are probably from those of us who have "been there, done that" as it were, you'll realise that most of us ...feel alienated, differently clever ... or whatever at some point in our lives.

For example at school I felt "superior" to most people around me. As an undergrad I realised ... When researching my masters I could look back and see ... Then it came to my PhD - I was 25, ... I could look back on even my masters and see how conceited I was at 22! ... Now I'm over 30 ...

Friend, I just about wrote that post, or something kind of like it. What a strange tribe this is that one can be the grandfather of wisdom at just over 30! For my next feat, I'm going to try to raise a child. I can't image what I'll think of my former self after a few years at that task.

Re:Advice

[Doctor O]

Well said. It's what I try to do, too, even though I watch news and documentaries from time to time, and our second child will be born in December.

Most people obviously have difficulty relating to someone who tends to end relationships for certain things happening (such as revealing attitudes that are FUBAR, intentional illoyality or striking stupidity). It tends to be perceived as hostility or arrogance, but that's the price you pay for living a life with minimum idiocy and malice from other people.

BTW, to my friends list you go - I haven't met many people with the same attitude.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

No way, Life of Brian

Re:Advice

[astar]

I sort of liked the kid, the one who talked about being the only one in a class that did not blantantly cheat.

I have good stories about intellectual dishonesty at colleges, and the stories go way back. But what I want you to think about is this kid who has the intellectual steadfastness not to cheat, in an environment where it was standard to cheat. I think you should put yourself in that position and view his environment from that perspective. Might you not be simply viscerally repulsed by your college. And being the kid, how did you respond to highschool. Or your baby boomer parents, who go along to get along. Disclaimer: I am a baby boomer parent.

Re:Advice

[Zeinfeld]

You know, this is exactly what we need more of on slashdot...political armchair quarterbacking from socially-disenfranchised geeks that have never done anything that had the slightest effect, positive OR negative, on the political direction their country has taken.

I was the first to propose www.whitehouse.gov.

What have you done?

Re:Advice

[PhoenixFlare]

But what I want you to think about is this kid who has the intellectual steadfastness not to cheat, in an environment where it was standard to cheat.

Good for him. The point remains, though, that short of being on a full scholarship you can't afford to give up, or something along those lines - why stay in such an environment when there are so many other quality options for getting an education?

I think you should put yourself in that position and view his environment from that perspective.

I already have. Were I in that same situation, I would get my ass out ASAP and not waste any more of my money.

Might you not be simply viscerally repulsed by your college.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. As I said before, though, I am somewhat "viscerally repulsed" by my college's glorious leader, but I have still had plenty of positive experiences.

And being the kid, how did you respond to highschool.

Again, i'm not sure what you're getting at here. The whole focus of this article and the responses has been college, not high school.

Or your baby boomer parents, who go along to get along.

Yet again, you've lost me. My parents are part of that generation, and they get along very well, thank you.

Re:Advice

[astar]

In defending the student, I am attacking the dominate culture, not just at this particular college, or even at all U.S. colleges, but in general.

This approach justifies commenting on high schools, which has been a big part of the student's life.

This approach, although referring not to your parents in particulars, justifies commenting on the cultural defects of babyboomers. Since you responded to your parents in particular, and I do not want to be insulting, let me generalize the problem. Baby boomers were taught to go along to get along. Getting along quite well, thank you, has usually meant severe ethical lapses in staying in conformity to the group think around the hypothetical parents.

In you personally, it seems that you concentrate on the good experiences, and try to put the bad ones out of your mind. Some people, however, see as primary the lapses of institutions from their ideals. In a college, intellectual dishonesty used to be something taken seriously. Now, at this college, and iirc statistically, at many colleges this is not true. Yet intellectual dishonesty violates the primary missions of colleges.

So moving on to another college is a good answer, but I also suspect it is more difficult for most people than for you pyschologically. And I have argued that moving on might not work anyway.

Re:Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Totally true. Smarts count for shit. The ability to get things done and help/make/coerce others get ahead are what matter.

Re:Advice

[danila]

On the other hand, there is no point in underestimating your own intelligence. Given how stupid the general population is, many of people have every justification to consider themselves special. In addition to that, if someone has few chances to meet those other smart people, for all practical purposes, he can think he's unique.

Re:Advice

[Catharsis]

The trap I see many "unusually bright" people fall into is that because everything came easily to them in High School, they never learned to really work at things.

Slacked through high-school myself, and was very surprised when taking six cross-faculty classes in first year that I failed Calculus.

Earth to Student, being smart does not mean you are exempt from working!

The past three years (I am now coming up on my fourth of five or six) have taught me a hell of a lot about how to work. Any idiot can be born smart, but actually using those smarts... now that's intelligent.

As for general college advice, I recommend you take diverse classes. Many universities will force you to take classes outside your faculty. Approach this task with verve and enthusiasm. I have always found semesters where I had some elective outside CS/Math were much easier on my brain.

Also, I realised I could choose to enjoy my classes or to hate them. It may be the spirit of the day to bitch about how terrible school is, but you can learn as much or as little as you want (without really affecting your GPA.) Why bother if you don't want to be there?

Ohhhh

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like to hear from fellow /.ers that consider themselves unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' and how you have dealt with it. What are you doing now?

On /. ???
Oh, the irony!

Re:Ohhhh

[wibs]

The question is, do people think they're smart because they're smart, or smart because their mother thinks they are?

I have the pleasure of working with a lot of people who think they're god's gift to humanity. Quite frankly I wish I had the receipt.

zxv

[Anonymous Coward]

i am bright. i think.

Best Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Be prepared for your spirit to be crushed

Re:Best Advice

[mkeroppi]

Welcome to the dark side, Muhahaha

Re:Best Advice

[nycsubway]

Be prepared for your spirit to be crushed

After that happens you'll understand what you're really capable of, and you'd be surprised how little you know now. You'll start to understand what all the 'old people' on slashdot are waving their canes about too.

If you're realisticly confident in your own abilities you have a chance of having them happen. Life is a lot about working and trying hard. You will have to work for everything you ever do, and if you dont work for it, you wont be able to appreciate it. If you're confident and you understand that you need to fail to get better, you have a chance of becoming what you think you can be.

As a side note, its a pretty naive and narcissistic view to feel your all that and a bag of chips.

Re:Best Advice

[CobwoyNeal]

As a side note, its a pretty naive and narcissistic view to feel your all that and a bag of chips.

That's a pretty foolish statement, because what about the people who really are all that and a mag of chips? Can't they recognize that without being labelled narcissists?

Re:Best Advice

[nomadic]

Agreed. First thing he should learn is a little humility. Plenty of people have sabotaged their entire lives by having overinflated notions of their own intelligence early on.

Re:Best Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol. Maybe that's the general idear? :P
But really, topic like this keeps the spirits up, so thnx. Although probably, it's not really meant for me.

Re:Best Advice

[XMyth]

Perhaps a handful of people in the world are justified in realizing this, but someone at the article poster's point in life clearly can't be justified in thinking this.

Evidence: he was stupid enough to post this question to /. Before I even started to read the comments I said to myself "oh this poor bastard...."

Re:Best Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, there are basically two types like that.

One one hand, you have the group of people that would include Bill Gates, Steve Balmer, Richard Ellison, Steve Jobs, Paul Wolfowitz, Condoleeza Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, etc., and they are total pricks. They may be intensely smart, good at what they do, etc., but I would not want to associate more than about 10 degrees away from them, personally.

On the other hand, you have those like Steve Wozniak, Paul Allen (maybe), Spence Murray, Steve Tarr, Sharon Thomas, etc. [the last few are some intensely smart and cool people I've known in the past], who are smart, but just don't feel the need to thump people over the head with it at every opportunity they have. They seem to enjoy learning things and have a way of getting those around them to pick up on that positive "this is really cool shit!" vibe in one way or another, as well as impart their knowledge well to others.

Try to be in the second group.

As a parent, one of my children had to spend about 10 days in the NICU because she had a post-partum stroke (left posterier cerebral artery blockage, but no general ischemic damage, just no left temporal lobe now). She's fine today (3 yrs old), believe it or not. A bit of a miracle, really.

One of the neurologists was probably one of the best pediatric neurologists in the US.

He was a complete dick, but in those 10 days we found out that he had just recently published a case report of a mother with high anticardiolipid antibodies who gave birth to a child that had a stroke right after birth as well, but the mother did not otherwise present with any blood disease, lupis, or anything else like that, and the other doctors and neurologists who were involved were great to interact with. So at least one of the doctors involved had seen this kind of thing before (my wife had high ACA right after birth, which went down to normal after that). So she probably got the best care she could have gotten, rather than had we been somewhere else.

Why am I saying this? There are those who are great at what they choose to do, and they are in the position where they can be a dickhead and get away with it.

Most of the rest of us need some form or another of "being nice" and "play well with others" to get by, no matter how smart, "gifted", etc., we may think we are.

Re:Best Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Your Coleagues, in your future, will feel threatened by you and will keep their foot firmy planted on your head until they can find a way to get rid of you. Be prepared to have a resume the size of a small towns' phone book. You are an easy target because you most likely do not like confrontational situations. My guess is your interest is learning and the social aspects of life probably don't mean much to you so you most likely haven't developed the means to compete in a verbal volley with the socialites. I wish you Luck Bro.

Re:Best Advice

[linzeal]

Do projects in each field that you think are capable of and finish them. Than go unto a group meme site that has many folk of that persuasion and see how long you survive.

Think you are an artist, try DeviantArt for instance.

Think you can save the world with your engineering prowess than Think Cycle is for you.

Don't go to a brick and mortar universtiy if you are self-motivated it wastes transportation time and money just to begin with. Make sure you balance it with a semi-active social life. I for instance have not talked to another human in 7-10 days working on summer school classes online along with some of my own projects. I am morlock, here me roar.

"Minority" Report.

[Anonymous Coward]

"An anonymous reader writes: "I would like to hear from fellow /.ers that consider themselves unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' and how you have dealt with it."

Hey! No fair! You're discrimminating against all the stupid people, and that's not right.

College

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't take college and dropped out because of my arrogance, similar as yours. As a result I make 12 an hour for computer repair. It's not the boom anymore, kid.

Re:College

[joemc91]

Definitely right on the money. Although I'm not out of school yet (1 more year if I don't take a semester off:)), I would definitely say it's worth it, and certainly not for the classes. I'm an aviation major, so most of my classes are very specialized, unlike many other majors (I fly planes, weee!), but I've taken enough bullshit classes such as English 101 and CS 110 (welcome to Word, ick) already to know these won't help too much in the real world.
The real benefit to school so far has been the extra-curricular stuff, including the parties. Make friends with as many people as you can, including the professors, students, and anyone else you might meet. Join clubs, take extra classes, do research, or get a job, just DON'T HOLE YOURSELF UP! I've known student graduating whom virtually nobody knows because they don't get out there. They certainly won't be getting a job anytime soon. I also know students who have already as juniors worked internships at a few different major airlines who are almost garunteed a job after school because of this.
The college degree seems to be more of a formality now than a deal maker, and as most people will tell you, it's not what you know, it's who you know. All in all, college is just a really fun time if you make it a point to do so. Just don't be a joyless anal retentive tool :)
HAVE FUN!

Note: if this post doesn't make sense, it's cause I'm lazy and drinking. Gotta love college

Re:College

[Igottapoop]

Heh, that's funny because I started my own computer repair company a couple months ago, make $50 an hour, and nearly busy enough to start taking on employees. I've actually been thinking of raising my rates just so I can get a little time off. :)

Yeah it's more work than being an employee at someone else's company, but it's more rewarding too (and not just monetarily).

Oh and I went to a crappy college and dropped out in the first year.

Sure it's not a boom anymore, but there are more computers out there in the hands of more people that don't know how to use them.

Re:College

[WasterDave]

I've actually been thinking of raising my rates just so I can get a little time off

Doesn't work. Your existing clients tell people they know "He used to charge $50 and now charges $100 - he's always done a good job and I knew he was good, but I didn't know *how* good" .... and you'll get more work.

Dave

Re:College

[Anonymous Coward]

I dropped out and make $150K/yr desiging software systems. Of course I started two decades ago. YMMV.

If I could do it over I would have got a couple of degrees. Experience, rep and raw brains go a long way. But some places that would be fun are closed to even me without the silly sheepskins.

had to do it

[Anonymous Coward]

fisrt post

"What are you doing now?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading Slashdot. Which speaks for itself.

Just know this:

[Uncle Gropey]

You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You may have to tough it up and take a path that is not enjoyable to you, as most of the rest of us normals have done, and save the soul-nourishing for the weekends and holidays.

Re:Just know this:

[DarkHelmet]

You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.

Exactly the line I was thinking along. Good Fight Club reference, sir:

This is your life

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake
You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else
We are all part of the same compost heap
We are the all singing, all dancing, crap of the world

You are not your bank account
You are not the clothes you wear
You are not the contents of your wallet
You are not your bowel cancer
You are not your grande latte
You are not the car you drive
You are not your fucking khaki's

Re:Just know this:

[BWJones]

I would have to agree with this. It is also true of kids that are extraordinarily bright and very high achievers early on in life. The harsh reality that we all had to live up to was that you grow up and get a university degree, perhaps a doctorate (or two), and then you are just like everybody else you associate with, only you peaked earlier. I am still in my early thirties, but everybody around me is pretty much equally smart and accomplished. Some are happier than others so the secret is finding you niche, what it is that you like doing for a living and striving to continue making a difference. The really sad cases to me are the ones where folks make a name for themselves early on and then ride on their early efforts for as long as they can eventually becoming bitter.

On the other hand, you do tend to get opportunities that you would not normally receive, and I would encourage you to explore as many of those as possible. If you don't know what you want to do, go to a liberal arts college and see where that takes you.

Re:Just know this:

[Anonymous Coward]

You're exactly right. I read his blurb, and I can immediately think of 20 people just like him.

Everyone gets tired of projects after a couple of months. Very few people see projects through to the finish without getting burnt out on it.

Lots of people have hobbies and interests. Most people who are in professional fields, and who are good at it enjoy learning as much as you, and have just as many hobbies.

Now the important part: Everyone has to pay their dues.

I think Engineering is the perfect thing for you. If you get in at the right place, and pay your dues of hard work, and pushing through getting bored/sick of projects, then you'll be good. I'm in the middle of paying my dues right now, but I'm also seeing the benefits. The higher levels of engineering are the "brain trust" levels.

One Prof once told me that your goal as an Engineer should be the guy that forms the projects. Be the idea guy, be the brain trust of the company. At that level, you work on a project brainstorming all the really neat and revolutionary ideas for a couple of months, then toss it off to other engineers who do the nitty-gritty detail stuff. In the mean-time, you move on to another project.

It's a great place to be, but you don't get there without paying your dues. Dues include going through college, masters, maybe PhD, then doing quality, grueling work for half a decade.

Anyways, good luck. Eventually you'll realize that there's a whole big chunk of the population just like you, and they make up the people at the creative tops of most industries.

Re:Just know this:

[Lord Prox]

You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake

Well he could be... with a gas operated, semi-automatic, AR-10. Puimping round after round into ....

errr. bad advice, bad advice...

Re:Just know this:

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. Much like the original poster, I too was a child prodigy... I was diagnosed with an IQ near 180 when I was a child (which was a relative diagnosis - I'm sure). I spent my life in "gifted" and "accelerated" classrooms. I got less than average grades, Bs, Cs, and Ds; however I still graduated high-school (with a few AP credits under my belt, I might add). I attended a First Tier College and after a few years there, I dropped out.

I dropped out because of lack of interest...

Ultimately, I went on to become a wealthy serial entrepreneur by persuing my ventures 100%. Entirely too many people "rely" on their degrees. They tend to think that just by having one they have "arrived". The reality is that what you "do", is far more important than what you can convince others that you've "done".

High school sucks, period. But definitely go to college. College is a great experience and it's much better than high-school. You will learn some insane things. Granted, right now you think you know everything; however, when you're sitting in stadium sized black room full of humming supercomputers (hint: SCRI), you will really appreciate your decision to go to college. If you decide to finish or not, is your decision. The experience alone is worth the price of admission. What you do after you're "experienced" is what truly matters. In academia, finishing school is a de-facto measure of accomplishment.

In the real world, what you DO is the bottom line.

Find a project you're enthusiastic about and persue it to completion.

The hardest part is following through.

Re:Just know this:

[sjwaste]

Hey, don't listen to this guy. I was just like you in high school. I ended up at a pretty good university here in the US, changed my major a few times, and for me, settled in with economics. Even then, I wasn't 100% focused on my school work. I barely read my texts, but I sure did read. I didn't want to be a physics major, but read about 10 books a semester in various subjects just to learn something new. Cooking is good, keep doing that too. For a "technical" person like myself, I felt that it was one of the few artistic things I was good at. By the way, I'm a matriculating law student in the fall and don't plan to stop there. The bottom line is, keep your grades up. Like it or not, employers and graduate schools WILL judge you on that pretty heavily. Believe me, college isn't as hard as they make it out to be in high school. You'll do fine if you just keep your head in the game long enough to get your work done. Just go to class. In my case, attendance meant that I could read less and get A's. I don't plan to stop after finishing law. I always wanted to go to med school, or culinary school. I'd be happy with either :) Grades are most of the picture in higher education, though. Don't lose sight of that. If anything, think of maintaining your GPA as a means to opening the door to new learning experiences. Otherwise, you can be really smart and still go nowhere. Its very important to keep doors open, and GPA is one way.

Finally, don't be afraid to try new things. Change your major a few times if you need to. I did and still managed to get out in 4 years all while having a great time in the process. I may be partial, but try economics if you get a chance. I spent time in biology, chemistry, comp sci, etc. Only chem and econ challenged me. I settled with econ and a BBA just in case i needed to get a job right out of college. Our school just happened to place its business majors very quickly and at good salaries. Otherwise, chem was cool as hell too.

Oh, and dont forget to have a good time. You'll meet a lot of new people in college, and make some really good friends along the way. They'll wonder how you can drink so much during the week and still get A's. You'll have no explanation, except that you manage to get to class even on the worst hangover. It's more than that, though, but you probably can't explain it. Now go get yourself a 40 (I like Ballantine's or Colt 45) and read a book. Malt liquor will probably be something you drink a lot of in college, even as 99% of the student body thinks it is (and you are) disgusting for drinking it. Good luck, you'll do fine in life.

Re:Just know this:

[orthogonal]

I attended a First Tier College and after a few years there, I dropped out.
. . . .
Ultimately, I went on to become a wealthy serial entrepreneur by persuing (sic) my ventures 100%

Bill?

Bill Gates?

Come on, man, you better than to post to Slashdot!

(But "pursuing my ventures 100%" is a genius euphemism for "creating a monopoly and violating antitrust law" -- a clever "embracing and extending" of the English language.)

Re:Just know this:

[Hard_Code]

"....
You are not the car you drive
You are not your fucking khaki's ..."

You are not the school you went to.
You are not your fucking degree.

If anything Fight Club is railing AGAINST this constant over acheiving for false goals, so it doesn't exactly support very well the "tough it out in school" idea.

Re:Just know this:

[Anonymous Coward]

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken!

Re:Just know this:

[Anonymous Coward]

what does serial entrepreneur mean? taking investors money and running?

Re:Just know this:

[machoromeo]

You might find this to be useful. Eventually, you will find that mediocrity takes a lot less time and most people won't notice the difference until it's to late.

Re:Just know this:

[garyok]

Jesus, the poor bastard asked for advice and you send him towards that nasty, dirty Colt POS. He should get himself one of these. Then he wouldn't be spending all his time cleaning the damn thing instead of... oh. I think I'll just shut up now.

Re:Just know this:

[jaden]

"If anything Fight Club is railing AGAINST this constant over acheiving for false goals, so it doesn't exactly support very well the "tough it out in school" idea."


I wonder what Raymond K. Hessel would have to say about that...

Re:Just know this:

[Ian Bicking]

You may have to tough it up and take a path that is not enjoyable to you, as most of the rest of us normals have done, and save the soul-nourishing for the weekends and holidays.

How depressing and stupid. Just because you can't always have the path you want, it doesn't mean you have no choice. People have a lot more choices in their life than they seem to realize.

Re:Just know this:

[flynnternet]

That is one baddddasss shooter (the HK)...

My suggestion

[Anonymous Coward]

Get over yourself. Only when you lose some of that cockiness will you begin to enjoy a meaningful and enriched life.

Re:My suggestion

[digistil]

How has this person been cocky in the least? This person is simply expressing themselves in an open and honest light, and I find your comments quite insensitive, unfounded, and from-the-hip. Likely you relate in some way as your comment jumps too quickly to be irrelevant. Figure out why this is, rather than using simple bullying tactics on others.

Re:My suggestion

[Anonymous Coward]

Wounded tiger, healthy sheep, wounded tiger, helathy sheep...

uhhh, tiger!

Ignore the parent! Maybe his personal view requires some kind of submission. Sounds like a useless Jesus freak to me. Find your own path.

Re:My suggestion

[Flamingcheeze]

Ignore the parent poster. Don't let his/her low self-esteem hurt you. My advice to you is this: DO NOT ignore your artistic talents. I was similar to you, in that I excelled at anything that I cared about in HS, whether it was physics, computer science, writing, painting, drawing, choir, drama, band, football, welding, woodworking... you name it.

I went into engineering because "that's where the money is," and I'm regretting it. I've been out of college for 6 years now, and wish I hadn't forgotten those artistic talents i used to love to exercise in HS.

My advice to you is to look for a field that can bridge the gap between the artistic and the logical/technical. Examples:

Game Design
Computer Graphics
Architecture
Industrial Design
Graphic Design
Culinary Arts
Sculpting/Painting
Interior Design

That's just a few off the top of my head. Whatever you do, find something you're passionate about. You can tell from all the bitter unemployed programmers on /. (no offense, it's the truth) that following the money is not a good strategy. The key to happiness is to do something you're passionate about.

I'm sure I'll get modded down for being honest, but I hope you find this post. Don't lose that confidence! It's not "cockiness," as the parent thinks! Good luck, and have fun!

Re:My suggestion

[Dascen]

Haha, this guy sounds like me. Except the whole lack of humility thing...

Re:My suggestion

[Reality Master 101]

Ha! EXACTLY what I was going to post.

In all immodesty, I'm one of those who is a lot smarter than most people in certain ways. But who the hell cares? There is more to life than being able to analyze and synthesize facts. I was a lot happier once I got over myself and figured out that there was something to learn from everyone, yes, even the point-haired idiot who wouldn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, but is brilliant in social situations. Or is brilliant at fly-fishing. Or is a great father.

In short, everyone has strengths. It's typical of the geek to think his strengths are more important than everyone else's strengths. The biggest thing a geek can realize is that their specific set of talents is pretty damn useless for happiness.

Re:My suggestion

[Anonymous Coward]

It's my opinion that what you say is crap. It's true you can learn from everyone, but if you are truly generally intelligent (as opposed to merely technically skilled) then _everything_ should, could, and ought to interest you.

Think Leonardo Da Vinci.

The man was interested in gardening, cooking, medicine, botany, astronomy, theology, writing, painting, sculpture, mechanics, logic/rhetoric, inter- and intra- personal communication and psychology / sociology, etc.

This is not what I would call "specific set of talents [are] pretty damn useless"

Now, admittedly, true general-high-function intelligence is rare (how rare? who knows). But don't pass him off as a one-trick geek just because (perhaps?) that's where you're at.

My opinion is that people ought never settle. Learn everything you can, never stop, and never give up.

Re:My suggestion

[Magius_AR]

In all immodesty, I'm one of those who is a lot smarter than most people in certain ways. But who the hell cares? There is more to life than being able to analyze and synthesize facts. I was a lot happier once I got over myself and figured out that there was something to learn from everyone, yes, even the point-haired idiot who wouldn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, but is brilliant in social situations. Or is brilliant at fly-fishing. Or is a great father.

Intelligence in all isn't a measure of what you know, it's a measure of what you are capable of knowing. Dictionary.com reports the exact definition as "1. The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge." Acquire and apply. That's very important. People who are good at fly-fishing are probably as such because they've spent years upon years (if not their whole life) doing so. It doesn't equate to intelligence. You could set a single intelligent man who knows nothing of fly-fishing to the task and see how long it takes him to Acquire and Apply the same skills (i would argue he could achieve the same level of expertise in a shorter amount of time)

Much can be said for experience, and I do believe that intellect without experience can be highly ignorant. However, I believe real smarts are a unique trait, and worthy of being proud of. Not everyone can just pick up a book on something and just teach themselves a new trade, be it whatever...computers, cooking, home-building, you name it. The 3 above categories are all hobbies of mine (computers being the career). They're all distinctly different fields, though I do believe my intellect has allowed me to grok and assimilate the knowledge faster than the average person. And yes I consider this a strength, and a unique one at that.

On a side note, for every post that criticizes this poster for being arrogant and full of themselves, look to yourself. Who are you to make such a statement? You don't even know the person. For all you know, he COULD be Einstein, and you're just a gigantic jackass. So I'd personally say "get off your high horse" yourself. A man should be able to claim above-average intelligence without being berated in such a manner.

I am similar, dynamic learner...

[Qweezle]

The thing with school is that you really don't have a choice as to what you learn, you just learn.

I was never particularly fond of the study of the English language, but I loved discussion of meanings of stories and the like.

I was never fond of Geometry but loved Algebra...

It all has to do with being a dynamic learner, and you will find yourself a hell of a field in some technology setting, which is arguably the most dynamic sector in the world.

Re:I am similar, dynamic learner...

[MariaK]

The thing with school is that you really don't have a choice as to what you learn, you just learn.

Oh, you don't have to learn. But it's true, you don't get much choice as to what gets tossed at you.

Re:I am similar, dynamic learner...

[dosius]

And for some of us, ie., those with Asperger's syndrome, even remedial English (ENG099) can be a killer... it's what forced me out of college. But that doesn't make a person stupid. Einstein couldn't add 2+2.

-uso.

Re:I am similar, dynamic learner...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure he couldn't...

Re:I am similar, dynamic learner...

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing with school is that you really don't have a choice as to what you learn, you just learn.

and there's a reason for this. The solution to problems in life may require skills that you don't see a use for or have any interest in when you are learning them. I spent a lot of time thrashing in college until I just knuckled down and learned everything they threw at me, whether interesting or not, whether I could see a valid use or not. I had to or I just wasn't going to graduate.

30+ years later, it is amazing to me how much that I had to force myself to learn was not only useful but vital in solving problems that I wanted to solve. In fact, some of them were things that I had to relearn because learned them poorly or not at all in college.

With the limited perspective of a college student, there is simply no way that they can predict what may be necessary later in life.

PPPOP

[Doomrat]

Intelligent and similar traits as the poster has mentioned has led me to live a near miserable life. Education was never viable because I lost interest in the mind-numbing tasks assigned to me, and the way that only stupid people who are too ignorant to realise that the work assigned to them is trivial are praised for the bookworm success. You have to be stupid or entirely ignorant to be a successful person in this society crafted by charlatans and intellectual inferiors.

Failure to submit yourself to the stupidity of our self-crafted society just leaves you isolated and miserable.

Re:PPPOP

[Doomrat]

Sorry about the typos there, it's very late and I submitted that without proof-reading. First word should read "intelligence", before some lame fucker tries to point it out in the quest for a "+funny" karma ego boost.

Re:PPPOP

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone didn't score well on their SAT

Re:PPPOP

[Doomrat]

Somebody doesn't live in a country where SATs are taken. Every course I've taken without giving up has resulted in a grade B or above.

Re:PPPOP

[Gramie2]

Let's hope that this reader learns some lessons that you apparently haven't.

Happiness doesn't come from accomplishment, possessions, or the admiration/envy of others.

Happiness comes from within, and can mean accepting your own limitations, and the limitations of others. If you can't appreciate the qualities of those you term "stupid people," it will be hard for you to accept your own failings.

Being isolated and miserable isn't a result of "failure to submit yourself to the stupidity of our self-crafted society." It comes from not understanding how to form deep, committed relationships, in not finding joy in small, everyday things that are nonetheless wonderful.

There is a place for dissatisfaction with the status quo, for striving and achieving things that are new and unique. That's the path you take, not the goal, nor the meaning.

And always, always accept that sometimes other people do know better, and sometimes you are wrong. Humility is essential.

Re:PPPOP

[digistil]

And someone doesn't realize SAT's mean squat. SAT's are not considered to be a determining factor of intelligence, rather they are only PROVEN to show how well one can study for a specific test.

Re:PPPOP

[Doomrat]

Let's hope that this reader learns some lessons that you apparently haven't. Happiness doesn't come from accomplishment, possessions, or the admiration/envy of others. Happiness comes from within, and can mean accepting your own limitations, and the limitations of others. If you can't appreciate the qualities of those you term "stupid people," it will be hard for you to accept your own failings. Being isolated and miserable isn't a result of "failure to submit yourself to the stupidity of our self-crafted society." It comes from not understanding how to form deep, committed relationships, in not finding joy in small, everyday things that are nonetheless wonderful. There is a place for dissatisfaction with the status quo, for striving and achieving things that are new and unique. That's the path you take, not the goal, nor the meaning. And always, always accept that sometimes other people do know better, and sometimes you are wrong. Humility is essential.

Oh, no need to go feeling pleased with yourself about being able to appreciate the things which really matter. I'm fully aware of those things, they practically define what I live for and chase in life. What I really mean regarding happiness in this context is in terms of the usual fitting in with society, graduating and getting the sort of job you always dreamed of getting. I should have probably explained this properly, but nobody asked my my life story and I've already given enough material to people who are going to make it today's mission to flame me for answering the qiestion the poster asked.

Re:PPPOP

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you could be smart enough to realize that the gateway to interesting work is to do the mind-numbing task.

One of the best things you learn in school is the discipline to carry on through things that need to be done. As a scientist, I can tell you that the ratio of time spent in deep thinking (which is fun) to time spent churning out the experiments and papers (which is often mind-numbing) is at least 1 to 20. If you think of yourself as above menial work, your thoughts will never escape your own head, however brilliant they are.

You don't have a choice but to submit to the system "crafted by charlatans and intellectual inferiors". The best you can hope for is to jump through the hoops, then once on the other side, order the hoops removed. If you fail to see this, you are not as bright as you claim; while if you do see this and are unwilling to do it, you are merely a whiner, lamenting that the world is not the way you want it. I don't have a lot of patience for that point of view.

Re:PPPOP

[mkeroppi]

So we all think we're bright other people are stupid, and stupid people run the world. (Of course, statistically, half of all people are below average). Or is it just maybe the truly bright people adapt instead of complain? With the being said, the bright will know or have figured out what to do, and probably not regret it in the future. If there's still complains about playing by the rules and getting "jobs", maybe we haven't figured it out yet. "There no seniority in learning, the ones who reach there are first." ~Chinese Proverb

Re:PPPOP

[Doomrat]

I know that what you're saying is true in a sense, although you would understand that if you were saying this from the perspective of somebody who has become truly depressed and disenchanted with their interaction with the world, that doing what you've described would be nothing short of a Herculean task. I think that somebody who has truly felt the same way that I have would read what you said and think "I guess he didn't have that same impossible to describe problem that I have".

Perhaps there is somebody out there who understands what I mean and could explain it without failing entirely as I've done.

Re:PPPOP

[Doomrat]

Don't kid yourself into thinking that nobody who complains has failed to realise these things. I'm afraid that however much you might think, you don't understand where we are coming from. There is more than simply disagreeing with the way things are, if you were incapable of being able to even feel human by submitting yourself in the way that most people do you'd perhaps be a little closer to getting it.

Re:PPPOP

[mkeroppi]

It's one thing to realize; it's another thing to do something about it; it's still another thing to make sure your something works. Realization is the essence of soul norishment, so maybe that's enough. We all like a silver platter with what we want, so you realize the platter doesn't exist, are we going to do something about it? Or the humanity stops there.

Re:PPPOP

[neosapience]

Ignorance, plain and simple.

The world is not run by intelligent people, period. Only if you are willing to be greedy, uncaring, singleminded and unyielding will you EVER be in a position of control. Everyone else gets to do the menial tasks that the overlords dictate.

Intelligent people realize that our current way of running things is horrible and they want no part of it. We want to do things the RIGHT way, the way that helps the most people and cuts through all the CRAP. Boring tasks are created by BORING people.

Don't ever tell me I need to jump through a hoop in the hopes that I may one day be able to remove it. That's EXACTLY what they want you to think. If it was that simple, this world wouldn't have any hoops AT ALL. Remember, YOU don't make the rules, the people with MONEY do.

The only way you can be happy is to challenge yourself. Find the funnest, most interesting task you can and PUSH it to the limit. Bring something new into this world and the world will surely notice.

Re:PPPOP

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll successful, now I can sleep.

Re:PPPOP

[DrMrLordX]

1). At what point did intelligence begin conveying firm morals/ethics to those who bore it? I've known many intelligent people with all the ethics of a corrupted banana-slug(not very ethical by any measure!). Are you familiar with a fellow named Bill Gates?

2). "The world" isn't run by anyone. There is no "current way of running things". There are governments and so forth, but curiously enough, there are a lot of them, and they're not all the same. Why, they're even sovereign in many cases. If you live in the right place, you may even be able to live in a total state of anarchy(for awhile anyway. You won't live long that way).

3). Some "hoops" are, sadly, necessary. You could think of the scientific method as being full of "hoops" that might impede an individual scientist's pursuit of a theory that he'd rather not document using accepted practices. It would be all well and good to abandon scientific method until the time at which you attempted to communicate your results to anyone else. What a mess that would be.

And, being a homeowner, I have come to realize that there are many menial and boring tasks associated with home-ownership that are not put here by anyone in particular. There are dirty dishes to wash, floors to clean, dust to . . . um, dust, and so forth, and so on. I suppose you could dispense with the notion that one must keep one's home clean. That'll only lead to a filthy home.

Re:PPPOP

[Anonymous Coward]

Happiness comes from within, and can mean accepting your own limitations, and the limitations of others. If you can't appreciate the qualities of those you term "stupid people," it will be hard for you to accept your own failings.

Fuck happy. Limitations are there to be railed against pushed through. They're there to beat yourself bloody against and when you finally break through, you realize that yes, you are a beautiful and unique snowflake forged by the fires of your own determination.

BTW, I wrote this in MS Word. Why is it that MS Word complains about using a contraction in a formal document but lets the word "Fuck" go by?

Re:PPPOP

[Anonymous Coward]

Every course I've taken without giving up has resulted in a grade B or above.

You think you're special? Over my entire academic career, I walked into nearly all of my university final exams COLD (ie: no studying) and still graduated with a BSC in computer science, with honours, and a complementary minor.

Re:PPPOP

[Basehart]

"it's very late"

No, it's not!

Re:PPPOP

[Gramie2]

Limitations are there to be railed against pushed through.

Yes, I'm sure that looks good on a Nike sweatshirt, but you have to choose which limitations to accept and which to confront. Do you see your inability to speak every language on the planet a limitation to be pushed through? Or your inability to even use English perfectly (that's not a slur; no one has ever had perfect English)?

Focusing on limitations that are both important and possible to overcome can only be a good thing. As I said originally, picking your battles is not only appropriate, but necessary.

uh yeah...

[bigNuns]

and if you post a reply to this article you are totally full of yourself too...

oh wait...

Is this guy serious?

[Moderator]

Is this guy serious?

It sounds to me like this guy is insecure about his intellegence and is falling back on Slashdot to boost his confidence. He describes himself as "uniquely bright," but admits he hasn't done anything spectacular to merit this title. Lots of people use Linux; that doesn't make them smart. The same thing goes with not doing well in high school. It doesn't mean they were too smart for their education, it just means they were different. Heartbreak :(

I realize that a lot of geniuses didn't do well in high school, but then, they weren't labeled such until after they did something to prove themselves. I could label myself as a champion bodybuilder because I go to the gym everyday, but the truth is I'm only benching 225. The same principle applies: you can't call yourself something unless you can back it up.

You're going to college and you have the rest of your life ahead of you. Find something you're good at, and stick with it. Just don't fall into the mentality that if you fail at something, it's because you're too "bright."

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha, you know what's funny? I think I'm smart because I don't use Linux :)

I'd start another thread, but I'm lazy,

What do other people think about that?

Dyzzy

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Frisky070802]

From the story, I'd say "uniquely conceited" is more appropriate. But then, posting this on slashdot ought to take him down a peg or two if he reads the responses....

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Templaris]

"Lots of people use Linux; that doesn't make them smart."

Wait, so because I still use Windows that doesnt mean I am stupid? ALRIGHT!

(Hi-fives cardboard cut-out friend)

Re:Is this guy serious?

[peteforsyth]

Yes, he's serious. If you are more intelligent than many people around you, and yet can't seem to focus or stay interested in what you're "supposed" to be interested in, you know it. You don't need "proof" or anything to "show" for it unless you're trying to convince somebody to take a chance on you (like a job interview.) In the present context, to take his question at anything but face value is arrogant in itself. To the original poster, I share many of the traits you describe. There was plenty I did like about school, and I worked pretty hard for a bachelor's at a distinctive liberal arts school. But in a way I could never put my finger on, I always felt it "wasn't for me" and I wasn't driven the way that many of my more intelligent classmates were. I am now 31, and am working a pretty nice IT job, but feel that I am working well beneath my potential. The most surprising discovery I've made in my own life is that the core problems I have in my life are not intellectual, and they're not about "laziness" or lack of focus. For most of my life I had a fear that it was something like that. In the last 3 years I have had some of the most challenging events I've ever faced (traumatic breakup, death of my biological father, friendships pushed past the point of saving.) With the aid of some therapy and some very intelligent and generous friends, I have come to see my lack of a healthy family upbringing as the root of my problems. Now that I have identified the problem, I have been able to begin to address it. I have been able to strengthen ties with some of my family members, and have also begun to form what I feel some of the strongest friendships I can ever hope to have. I have no way of knowing whether your situation bears any similarity to mine. But I would offer one small piece of advice, which is this: You will probably always have some people in your life who accuse you of being lazy, or of not having a work ethic, or of not caring about the "right" things. Though you may at times need to please these people (to get or keep a job, or the like), don't let them get into your head. In all likelihood, they have not made the effort to understand you, and their words are not an accurate reflection of who you are. And when things get bad, go find yourself a therapist. With a mind like yours, you can probably make a lot of progress even with a mediocre one.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[peteforsyth]

Oops, I posted too fast. I left out the most important part-

The absence of a vibrant family meant that I was constantly looking for approval from everybody I met. In any situation, I would find myself distracted from the task at hand because I was so concerned about whether the people around me would like me, or think I was cool, or think I was smart, or whatever.

I think that "lack of focus" or "laziness" is generally a symptom of being distracted by something. So keep your eyes open and try to figure out what that thing is that is distracting you, and when you do, give it the attention it deserves. It might be a very liberating experience.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[macrealist]

I think I'm smart because I don't use Linux :)

Yeah, but now you are uncool to slashdoters (guess it could be worse :)

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're smart, you know it. It's not one of those things you can easily mistake. You just pick things up quickly. It's especially obvious when you're in some mind-numbing class in school, listening to the teacher explain for the third time something like "tangent is opposite over adjacent, but it's *also* sine over cosine!" to a few people in the class who JUST CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT. Admittedly, it's not easy to demonstrate it to strangers, but friends and acquaintances notice things like you being able to teach them better than the teachers. And he would definitely know if he was failing at something because he was too stupid. When you choose not to do your homework because 50 questions every night that you could have answered at the age of 10 is just a bit boring, and your grades suffer for it, you know it's not because you're not bright enough.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting. I could actaully say I had a very similar experience to yours. Although therapy didn't help me enough (although it did some).

I became an alcoholic in my third year, and essentially snapped and realized my real problems. After that my life really changed, I did get almost a 4.0 in my final year, went on to do a masters and am fairly successfull at it.

The 'ask slashdot guy' who does seem fairly arrogant in my opinion (I never had such a high view of myself) might to well to look at his childhood and personality for problems not related to intelligence.

Oh, please, use paragraphs. I rarely read posts without paragraphs (it's such a pain to read such posts, I'm really not trying to be an ass).

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

(hmm, damn lameness filter!)

MOOD PARENT UP, HE'S STRAIGHT ON THE CORE!

(grr, lameness filter!!!!)

Re:Is this guy serious?

[sjwaste]

I'll say this, when you are how this poster describes, other people who aren't just don't get it. It's just a certain way a mind can work. You're constantly thinking and you don't want to be bored in school doing shitty tasks. For me, I realized that if I didnt pay enough attention to get good grades, the doors of higher education would be closed to me, so school became one of those things I just did because I had to. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong, you ARE judged on your education in life. At least, that's my experience. It doesn't mean you shouldn't pursue your outside interests, but a person of this type will have to realize that most of their learning will come in their spare time. There's nothing wrong with that. At least I hope not, because I identify very well with the original post. For me, college was a 4 year party. I had a great GPA, but that was secondary because I wasn't really interested until my junior year when I found a major I really liked. I look at it this way, though, there's going to reach a point where this kid learns enough that he's gonna put it to good use. Curiosity is a good thing, and that's really what his post boils down to. Especially in high school, there's little room for that. I remember having teachers who personally disliked me because I always worked ahead and showed the material to others. They took it the wrong way, I was just bored in class. I suspect this kid is too.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the grandparent was talking about Mac users. You're still stupid.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[keraneuology]

He describes himself as "uniquely bright," but admits he hasn't done anything spectacular to merit this title.

What an ignorant twit. Some of the most brilliant people on the planet never did "anything spectacular to merit this title". Do a google for Grady Towers - a guy with an IQ that I guarantee to be at least two sigma above yours, and probably three or four who was a security guard at the time of his murder.

There are many absolutely brilliant people out there who will never do anything "spectacular". Some by choice (the concept of Atlas Shrugged is quite real). Some by mandate (Robert Jordan was denied a position on the New London, CT police force because his IQ of 125 was considered "too high" - the courts agreed that if New London wanted cops with an IQ of 120 or lower then that was their right.

Don't lose sight of the issue with brighter people being more likely to not fit in as well with others and miss out on all of the social promotions that many others have.

I realize that a lot of geniuses didn't do well in high school, but then, they weren't labeled such until after they did something to prove themselves.

On the Stanford-Binet scale, a genius is one with a score of 140 or higher. They don't have to do anything else to "prove" themselves, just score at that level. Unfortunately, with higher IQs come a far greater incidence of poor vision and mental illness - including depression, which can go a long way toward hindering this great and majestic sign of brilliance that you demand.

It is nothing shocking to find somebody who is profoundly gifted to do poorly in school. Social issues, boredom and/or other special needs can all go a long way towards lowering that GPA. The claim "too smart for their education" as this parent mocks is in fact quite possible. Difficult for many to understand, but possible nonetheless.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[damiam]

What exactly do you think "profoundly gifted" means? That someone can do well on tests? That's the most meaningless criteria ever. Washington, Marx, Edison, Churchill, etc. weren't geniuses by the textbook definition, but they were still great men who changed people's lives. Why should I care if you can get a perfect score on an IQ test? What possible use is that?

You may be a genius, but if you want to earn respect from society you've got to do more than just be.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[skifreak87]

I was bored for most of high school (and below) because the teacher taught too slowly, I understood the first time a concept was explained and didn't need any hand-holding. Consequently I was a jackass and would do whaztever I could to make the teacher move faster usually by answering every question and making it harder for others to learn. In high school, I was part of a math research program, and that challenged me. If you like math, there's plenty of challenges there (try and prove on your own that there's an infinite number of primes, for example). In college, my solution is to take hard problem solving courses. While it lowers my gpa (I lost my 4.0 as a result of the 300-level math courses I've taken here at Princeton) I consider it worth it. My favorite class so far without a doubt has been an Abstract Algebra course which I unfortunately was not able to get an A in.

As far as the real world goes, allow me to relate something from a recently graduated math major at Princeton. He has since decided to go back to academia b/c he can't stand not being challenged and he loves Math. Find a subject you love and explore it deeply. Realize you probably wont be rich and decide do you want to enjoy your work, or make a lot of money. You probably can't have both.

As for your comment about bright being bullshit. I'd consider myself uniquely bright and have since elementary school. I happen to know my IQ as a result of testing for an enrichment program and where that places me in terms of the rest of the population. I know IQ isn't a perfect measure of intelligence but there's no reason to assume someone isn't bright/brilliant/whatever because they haven't done something ground breaking. I've never been published but I have done some rather difficult Math that has been recognized and awarded at science competitions.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[pseudochaotic]

Look, if you're going to measure your intelligence against the three or four idiots in your class, most people are going to be unusually intelligent. Measure yourself against the smarter ones, instead, since they're the ones you'll be competing directly with later on.
Also, if you're too damn lazy to do your homework, all the intelligence in the world isn't going to help you. I learned (and am still learning) this the hard way.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[ky11x]

Ha, you are so right. This guy is making "not doing well in high school" into a badge of intelligence on the theory that many intelligent people don't do well in high school. That's a basic logic fallacy there. How "uniquely bright" can he be?

Re:Is this guy serious?

[keraneuology]

What exactly do you think "profoundly gifted" means? That someone can do well on tests?

Psychometricians, neurologists, psychologists... they've been working on what it means for a very long time and what - if anything - the IQ tests actually mean. Working theories cover such things as a larger "cache" (special region of the brain seems to function in the same way as cache on your MB), a greater ability to see consequences of actions, a higher level of raw capacity - some people may simply be able to hold more data, faster recall, greater ability to see patterns (many IQ tests have significant sections on spatial relationships), greater ability to connect abstract bits of data.... the theories are endless.

But what you - and most others - fail to address is that there -are- differences. Look at idiot savants: maybe there is somebody out there who could be brought into a math lab somewhere and tell at a single glance whether a million digit number is prime or not. Maybe there exists somebody who can fold proteins in his head. Maybe everybody thought they were useless morons because they couldn't learn to tie their shoes and they're locked up on Thorazine somewhere.

A high IQ score does not guarantee productivity. A high IQ score -is- a good indicator of -potential-. Kind of like when SETI @ Home sees an interesting signal in the first pass so they'll go back for a closer look.

You may be a genius, but if you want to earn respect from society you've got to do more than just be.

This is a philosophical/ethical/spirital question - should all human life have respect just because it -is- or should we only respect that human life that actually does something? It is also irrelevant to the question at hand. The original poster said "I believe I have these characteristics and I don't know what to do about it". The predominant response was "by telling us that you believe you have these characteristics you demonstrate yourself to be a useless, arrogant schmuck, you horrible loser you, get a life." That horrible zit on the ASCII of society should be encouraged to try and find his limits and act accordingly. Maybe that person will be the one to make an insane connection some day that cures cancer? Or never makes that insane connection because everybody told him to sit down, shut up, and fake interest in people who tell people like him to sit down, shut up and pretend to be interested in others.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

well, you can be smart and not do as well in high school as the kid who maybe isn't that book-smart, but smart enough to study judiciously and get his work done.

Now, guess who will probably do better in college? The same dork you thought didn't deserve to get in to the National Honor Society, etc...

College will eat you alive if you have poor study habits.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[cgenman]

I know it was a joke, but because this comes up a lot:

The contrapositive is your friend!

Mr. Converse: Hello kids, I'm Mr. Converse. I'm a misleading fallacy of logic. You may have seen me before, while you were taunting your best friend for being fat. While it is true that if you eat like a snooty porker you will become fat, it is not logically true that if you are fat you had necessarily eaten like a snooty porker. Maybe your friend has a glandular condition, a natural affinity for a higher weight plane, or maybe having a friend like you has made his hypertension medically significant. Jerk.

Ms. Inverse: Hello you little kids, I'm Ms. Inverse. I put the word "not" in front of both halves of a logical statement, to come up with something that looks right but isn't true. Let me give you an example... White people are good, therefore black people are bad. Isn't that easy? Now you don't have to read either Mein Kampf or the Bible.

The ContraPositive: Hello Kids! I'm the contrapositive! I'm not the inverse, and I'm not the converse, I'm both! And unlike inverse and converse, I'm true! Yay! You know how if daddy sleeps with that secretary bitch again mommy will leave him, like mommy promised during the last session? Well, if mommy hasn't left yet then daddy hasn't slept with his secretary again. It's 100% true! Daddy must have done something else to make mommy cry. I wonder how mommy got those bruises?

Remember: Only the Contrapositive is your real friend. Mr Inverse and Ms Converse are just out to touch you in those special places.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

i believe you, michael. every word. i've changed careers 5 times. i'm 61, changing careers as we speak for the 6th time and i've been very sucessful in every thing i have ever tried except marriage, twice for 25 years total, and getting ready for a 3rd one in 2 weeks. you can have more than one career at a time if you have the right ones. if you are bright and need a new horizon to explore every few years you can do it. not easy usually. sometimes success doesn't bring happiness. you change course again. sometimes happiness is not what you do, but how you do it. something that is attained by right-mindfulness, something akin to what suzuki roshi meant in his seminal little book, called 'zen mind, beginners mind'. my longest career was as a clinical psychologist, 20 years (preceded by 7 years of university), very satisfying; retired into real-estate speculation which was fun for a while and less satisfying, but very lucrative. there are always trade-offs. got into oil and gas production--still do a little, very educational. the thing that has sustained my intellectual curiosity the longest (about 30 years now) has been the deconstruction of economic theory. finally discovered that it is not a science, nor even internally consistent psuedo-science, it is a kind of religion. (see http://www.dieoff.org/ for a look at both the oil and gas fix the world is in as well as grounding in econ. this site will change your perception of reality if you are smart enough to grasp what's there.) money won't make you happy if you are very, very smart. don't go to college, as others have suggested, unless you have a trade in mind that requires it. you can get a much better learning of the world by independent study if you have the self discipline. college can sometimes help with developing self discipline if you have spent much time watching tv while growing up. if you have spent much time with a tv, you are brain-damaged in a sense and need to get rid of tv in order to de-program your need for instant gratification and passive attachment to the world. be careful with mind altering drugs - they aren't for everybody. use sun screen. get thin, stay thin.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

the word your looking for is 'abused' not 'stupid' =P

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

it is not logically true that if you are fat you had necessarily eaten like a snooty porker.

I don't think you're saying exactly what you mean. Say rather: it is not necessarily true.

Knowledge that the statement "if P then Q" is true does not imply that "if Q then P" is true; neither does it imply that "if Q then P" is not true.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you _can_ work with windows, you deserve my respect

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Ben Jackson]

*points to the doll* "And that's where Mr Patronizing rammed it up my ass!"

Re:Is this guy serious?

[hyphz]

That's exactly what he was saying.

"If P then Q" implies nothing about "If Q then P".

"If P then Q" implies nothing about "If not-P then not-Q".

But "if P then Q" DOES imply, and is logically equivalent to, "not-Q then not-P".

The only problem with the contrapositive is the "Raven Paradox":

A statement: All ravens are black.

Some evidence for it: This raven is black.

The contrapositive of the original statement (which is logically equivalent): All things that are not black are not ravens.

Some evidence for the contrapositive: This white thing (thus, not black) is a shoe (thus, not a raven).

So the fact that this shoe is white, is evidence that all ravens are black..? Huh?

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Keck]

Let me give you an example... White people are good, therefore black people are bad. Isn't that easy? Now you don't have to read either Mein Kampf or the Bible.

Yeah.. because the Bible is all about "Black people are bad", right? If you're going to delineate differences between logical statements, you could at least use accurate examples. Mein Kampf was a spot-on example, the Bible isn't.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[ecochard]

I realize that a lot of geniuses didn't do well in high school

"Great talent shows itself late in life"
-- The Tao of programming.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

I may be being thick but shouldn't that be:

Things that are not black are not all ravens.

Which would be true.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[gr8_phk]

"While it is true that if you eat like a snooty porker you will become fat, it is not logically true that if you are fat you had necessarily eaten like a snooty porker."

Actually, it absolutely IS true (though not logically as you've stated). Considering the body from a thermodynamic point of view, there is absolutely no way to gain weight without putting food in. Rate of metabolism plays an important role, but in the end: calories_in - calories_burned = weight gained. I used to argue this with a friend and could not convince him. The proof has finally been shown to me: Get the stomach stapled so you can put the &*(#$ food in and you lose weight. Not really recommended, but it does work and does prove the point. I need to lose weight myself, and I don't blame anyone but myself for not doing better at it.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, somehow "Mr. Converse" and "Ms. Inverse" turned into "Mr. Inverse" and "Ms. Converse" by the end of the dialogue. Is that one of those logical points I'm missing? Like the inverse of the converse of the contrapositive = gender-bending?

Re:Is this guy serious?

[cgenman]

Try having some ovaries removed and see what happens to your weight.

Your body has a lot of control over the value of calories_burned. You'll find that one of the easiest ways to gain weight is to switch your body to a starvation mode. Which means that if you feed yourself less than you usually get without changing your other activities, your calories_burned value will go down, as your body is storing as much as possible for a bad winter.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[crulx]

Close.

R(x) = x is a raven
B(x) = x is black

All Ravens are black.

For All x, IF R(x) THEN B(x)

Contrapositive
For All x, IF ~B(x) THEN ~R(x)

So

All non black things are not ravens.
---
crulx

Re:Is this guy serious?

[NuclearDog]

"with higher IQs come a far greater incidence of poor vision and mental illness - including depression,"

Glad to hear that it's not only me...

Re:Is this guy serious?

[tehcyder]

It's like all the nutjobs with conspiracy theories or whatever saying "yes, but they laughed at Einstein too."

Re:Is this guy serious?

[tehcyder]

I think he was implying the argument arising from religion that "Christians/Muslims are good, therefore non-Christians/Muslims are bad."

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Keck]

I think he was implying the argument arising from religion that "Christians/Muslims are good, therefore non-Christians/Muslims are bad."

Parent said:

White people are good, therefore black people are bad. Isn't that easy? Now you don't have to read either Mein Kampf or the Bible.

Muslims would have qualified as black people. Early Christians were almost certainly not white (or at least, most of them). Anybody (including the parent poster) who has twisted things so far as to think that

1. The Bible says only Christians are good
2. The Bible implies or says that non-Christians are bad
3. The Bible can be rationally compared to 'Mein Kampf'

is not basing their statement on any facts. Perhaps the poster has gotten these twisted ideas from other people, or from observing people who claim to identify as Christians but are horribly miscarrying that label. There have been than a few throughout history to do so.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[gr8_phk]

I never said it was simple. I use the stomach stapling as an example now because I know of a guy who weighed 350+ and had it done. Magically the weight started dropping dramatically with no other changes (that I'm aware of). This happens to a lot of people. I've heard that eating less can cause the body to start storing a higher percentage, and I'd argue that in such a case you need to eat even LESS or preferably get more active. I sometimes get dizzy if I eat too little, but that seems to be influenced by what you eat as well as how active you are (prior to cutting back).

I've also heard an arguement that excercise in the morning (before eating) is better because the only source of energy is that in storage (as opposed to elevated blood sugar or some such after eating) and thus it helps develop the process of using stored energy and results in less appetite. Though I wonder about the higher incidence of heart attacks in the morning when I do this.

There are a lot of factors, and I agree that there may be glandular influences or other physical variations but these don't change the equation - only the approch one must take to getting the result they seek. "Your body has a lot of control over the value of calories_burned." and so do you. I'm not claiming a solution, but for each person I believe there is one. It's up to the individual to find it.

Re:Is this guy serious?

[Kymermosst]

All non black things are not ravens.

Oh yeah?

I've got a somewhat similar mindset

[grahamsz]

I found i really had to try and commit myself at university, otherwise i'd find myself with a final exam the next day writing some random perl code to catalog my music collection.

If you can channel your energy and focus on the not-so-interesting parts then you should do pretty well.

Once you're in the real world it's a bit different, but hopefully you can find a work environment that suits you.

Re:I've got a somewhat similar mindset

[moosesocks]

Considering that this guy's a HS senior, he probably has finals tomorrow.

And he's posting to slashdot.

I have finals tomorrow.

And I'm posting to slashdot.

Beautiful!!

well

[lancomandr]

Yeah, you're unique, just like everybody else. I've learned that no one will really believe you or care. I appear to be very similar. I like linux, photography and cooking. I'm pretty creative although I can't apply it a lot of the time. I've failed simple classes three times in a row. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much of an area for people like us to flourish. Most of what I feel are strongpoints go completely unnoticed and unappreciated by anyone who doesn't know me really well. I'm kind of shy; when I create something I feel nervous about sharing it. Some people label me as a pure genius while others wonder if I could spell my own name. I've tried to do the usual gig that everyone else seems to be doing but I just can't. I myself just turned 17 yesterday, and will be attending a community college starting this summer quarter after miserably failing my last 3 years at a college-prep oriented highschool. Depending on what college you're attending and what you plan on studying, you may find either that you continue to go unappreciated and suppressed, or that you have found a wonderful environment for growth and honing of your talents. After spending a little bit of time around the campus, I've come to expect the latter for myself when I begin in a few weeks. Good luck.

Re:well

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I don't feel like playing amateur psychologist today, but I suspect there are more people around with your mindset than you might realise at that age. I met quite a few at university, and discovered that they are very good at some things, and very bad at others. Many things, including their job satisfaction and their value to an employer, depend on how well they play to their strengths.

For example, it seems they can achieve a relatively large amount in a given period of time if they are interested in what they are doing, making them very good at brief but difficult tasks where they can focus. On the other hand, they seem to be quite easily distracted by things they find more interesting, which can be a strain if you're trying to keep up a regular 9-5 job in any technology industry: in the real world, there's a lot of grunt work that needs to be done too.

IME, people with this sort of mindset tend to be natural "starters" rather than "finishers", and go for the big picture rather than the details -- they're better at producing innovative ideas than dotting the i's and crossing the t's. I've concluded that they are the natural candidates for "leading edge" research posts: let them wander with their heads in the clouds, and let those with more pragmatic, solid mindsets turn the useful ideas into reality.

Aw, crap. I wasn't going to go amateur psychologist. But hey, there you go, maybe it'll provide some ideas for you to play with.

Re:well

[Scratch-O-Matic]

Dammit, your'e talking about me! I have great ideas but I can't finish anything! Get out of my head!

Re:well

[sjwaste]

You're right on with that post. If only I had some mod points. I'm 23 now, and exactly the same way, though. It doesn't wear off. The trick is to figure out that your grades ARE important and to work at it like anything else. It's much easier to pursue knowledge if you can stay in school, and grades keep you going up the chain of education. You CAN learn something in college if you try. I always thought I was a lousy writer before college, but it turned out I was great at technical writing. I just had to take a course and figure it out. There's a lot of exploration to do in those 4 years. But being really smart and getting bored with busy work is NO excuse to fail and be miserable in life. In the end, jobs need to get done and we all have to contribute.

Re:well

[Garak]

Yea, it seems like everyone has been talking about me here :p (Even the link to the personally page)

I'm surprised that this post has gotten over 900 comments.

Anyway the only thing that is getting me through collage is Ritalin. It helps me get things done. Insted of just getting the diffcult parts done it helps me stick with something untill its done. I just dragged my way through high school, failing english courses and getting 80's in math, physics and technology. And 60's in everything else. Then after taking a year off school I started taking ritalin and went to collage. In my semester I had a 4.0 GPA, but by the second semester I started failing english and spent too much time on chem and failed physics. After that I started to specialize in electronics and I've gotten 80's is most of my courses.

Lately a bad trend has been showing up in math. I usually end up getting bored in class and zone out. Fail everything during the sememester, then study for two days straight and ace the final getting only a 50 in the course. The instuctors beat everything to death, showing too many examples of the same thing(with one number changed) and then change to a new method/topic in the same class while I'm off sketching a new design for the next telerobot I'm going to try and build.

I look around my room and I see alot of unfinished projects(robots, mods, networks, tool colections, messes, assignements...) Usually with most of my hobby projects I'm missing a few key parts and befor I find a source I've already lost intrest. But these days that I now that I'm on ritalin my intrest now spans hours and not a few min.

I'm always comming up with some very cool ideas, solutions to problems, designs for new products but I never implement or document them.

Another odd thing one of my roommates pointed out is that I have no intrest in fiction unless is realistic, a possible future. I've never been one to have any intrest in reading fiction. All this D&D stuff totally excapes me. I don't understand the intrest people have in the stuff. It never did happen, it never can happen...

Re:well

[Dogtanian]

I like linux, photography and cooking.

Lemme guess; you killed Tux, cooked his liver and photographed the results for a posh food magazine.

Then you ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti. Fa fa fa.

It's called

[JTMON]

Obsesive compulsive disorder....I pretty much sound just like you and that's exactly what it is....good luck! :)

discipline

[timeOday]

You will have to focus and refine your talents to get anywhere. The ability to work really hard for a short time when you happen to feel like it won't help you any. Otherwise you will feel cheated when those without your "raw ability" whiz by you in life.

College Life

[Laivincolmo]

Unfortunately in today's business setting, some sort of official training is neccesary. Even if you have spent 10 years of your life working with computers every day, you still unfortunately need a college degree. I'm planning on going to college in the fall and enduring the classes while also learning through experience. I think it was Herman Hesse in Siddhartha who said something about it being impossible to be taught anything. The experience is everything...

Re:College Life

[geniusj]

That's not necessarily true. You can make up for college/education with work experience. The trouble is that now it is going to be hard to get that initial work experience without something additional. I managed to do it for a couple of reasons:

1) The year was 2000 when I started (economy)
2) I had done a lot of random sysadmin type work for random companies and people throughout middle school and high school that I could put on my resumé. (It's better than a blank resumé).

But generally after about 2 or 3 jobs, you're fine.. At least that's what I've found. If you're good enough, all you need is to get them to interview you. That's all your resumé needs to accomplish.

I will concede, however, that doing what I did would be harder now than it was 4 years ago, but not impossible.

Regards,
-JD-

Re:College Life

[server_wench]

Given that you are committed to attending college, the best thing is to tackle it like you do other things. Learn the system, its flaws and weaknesses as well as its strengths.

Speaking as someone who attended college (scored in the 99+ percentile on a GRE) and graduate school and who has taught college courses, I have several specific recommendations:

• Try to develop an interest in your courses independent of the grading system. If you get into the subject, you never have to cram for exams.
• Get to know your fellow students -- sometimes you learn as much from them as from instructors.
• Tutor other students - more palatable than dry learning plus explaining something to someone else makes you learn it better.
• Use the opportunity to broaden your interests.
• Don't try to do everything perfectly the first time. College is a friendly environment for making the kinds of mistakes that encourage better learning.
• If you are forced to choose, try to "learn how to learn" rather than gaining specific technical expertise. Once you become adept at learning new things, you can keep up with technology by visiting the library or reading technical documentation.
• Sometime near Junior year, you should advance from looking for answers to learning how to ask questions, to evaluating which questions are appropriate.

Good luck!

Like me Pappy always used to say....

[odenshaw]

College is so you can show the employer that you can deal with a whole bunch of bullshit... stuff you didn't want to do and still did anyway.

Re:Like me Pappy always used to say....

[bandy]

employer that you can deal with a whole bunch of bullshit

Because you're going to be dealing with bullshit for the rest of your life.

Sad but true. Find a job that you can live with until retirement. Have interesting hobbies. Don't talk about them at work - work is supposed to be your hobby, and I don't mean that you admit to doing recreational programming. The Boss thinks he owns you 100%.

Re:Like me Pappy always used to say....

[jabberjaw]

Also, don't think that this is avoidable by going into the hell that is academia. You don't believe me? Ask any grad student or post doc.

Re:Like me Pappy always used to say....

[ScooterBill]

College? (laughs)

My motto: Never postpone joy.

Re:Like me Pappy always used to say....

[dpotter]

I hear this sentiment expressed far too often, and it discourages that so many people think this way. I submit to you that if your primary motivation for education is to obtain a higher salary or prove something to a prospective future employer, you've greatly undervalued that education. Pursuit of knowledge should be for YOU, not some future employer.

Higher education represents a unique opportunity to engage with experts of all fields, to gain insight into a great diversity of disciplines and to discover where your own interests are. Your primary benefit from college is the personal enrichment you receive from education: understanding and appreciation of complexity & subtlety, insight into yourself and a desire for life-long learning.

Re:Like me Pappy always used to say....

[odenshaw]

I understand your sentiments, especially in this day and age. My father would always say it in a somewhat of a sarcastic way, but then there was a little bit of truth in there, you know, just to make me feel better about having some troubles in school.
cheers

Re:Like me Pappy always used to say....

[Anonymous Coward]

Right on. Because if you didn't get used to putting up with bullshit and doing things other people's way, you'd be the employer interviewing some lackey (and avid /. poster) who did.

Here's a tip

[Anonymous Coward]

Time to start doing acid.

College

[moertle]

I hope you are going to a school that offers a wide range of degrees. I always liked taking spare electives in non-technical classes. Also I would get into a good research program, usually this means paying your dues by volunteering your time until you prove yourself useful. I worked in 2 research centers and they offered enough diversity where I could change gears every couple of months. Also my current job has been a commercial spin-off of the research lab I was working in. So it can be pretty rewarding.

the smart thing to do

[loid_void]

turn off your mind, relax, float downstream...

Find something you like...

[YrWrstNtmr]

...and then do it.

A lot of people (especially in here) are going to tell you "yeah, I'm the same...this is what you should do"
or
"Shut your whiney cakehole. Go to school, get a job, and go to work."

All bullshit.

Sample many things over the next few years, find something you like to do, and then go do it. After that, all bets are off.
If you can't find something you like to do, something that fits in you mindset at the moment...do something anyway! If it sucks...too bad. You still need to, at the very least, support yourself. Because I won't. And neither will the next guy. And your parents shouldn't have to.

Re:Find something you like...

[grqb]

This is so true. I know waaaay too many people who went to University, chose 1 program and after a year switched to another, and then switched again after another year. These people end up graduating 2 years later than they should and have bad marks...plus it doesn't look good to an employer. Everything that you do will have rough patches, you just have to persevere.

Re:Find something you like...

[Josh_Borke]

I completely agree. I've felt the same way and the only way I have any direction in my life is that I found something I was really interested in and decided that that was what I was going to do and pursue. That's really the only thing you can do. Find something that is really interesting to you and pursue it. Not something you can just pick up in a month or 6, but something that will continuosly challenge you.

Re:Find something you like...

[cubicledrone]

plus it doesn't look good to an employer.

A person could graduate Summa Cum Laude with a Nobel Prize nomination and it wouldn't look good to an employer.

Re:Find something you like...

[saforrest]

If you can't find something you like to do, something that fits in you mindset at the moment...do something anyway! If it sucks...too bad. You still need to, at the very least, support yourself. Because I won't. And neither will the next guy. And your parents shouldn't have to.

You said it, man. I think you've called it better than almost anyone on this thread.

Re:Find something you like...

[mandalayx]

I agree with your comment, especially the first part. Working on "doing" now. (but I do like doing those computer games too..)

Anyways, on this: You still need to, at the very least, support yourself. Because I won't. And neither will the next guy. And your parents shouldn't have to.

Let's hope the government (through taxpayers) don't have to support you either :)

Re:Find something you like...

[Ark]

The parent post reminded me of this:

"Here's the only thing I know that makes any sense when it comes to money: find what you enjoy doing, find what moves you to passion, find what you can't *not* do, and the miraculous thing about it is, if you're half decent at it, and dedicate yourself to getting better, and keep at it, after a while, sonuvagun, you can almost always find a way to make a living off it.

Well, before taxes, anyway."

-- J. Michael Straczynski, 7/13/2002

Re:Jesus

[Quickfoot]

Sounds like you could have Asperger's syndrome, it is on the autistic spectrum but very high functioning, you have quite a few of the symptoms.

I'd look into it, you can't take any blood test to be diagnosed, and most doctors would not diagnose you correctlyl, a huge percentage of people diagnosed with ADD or ADHD actually have Aspergers/High Functioning Autism.

Look in your phone book for a development disorder specialist, they should be able to tell you yes or no based on an evaluation.

college isn't for you...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can't bring yourself to do things you do not enjoy, you may as well not go... sometimes you have to do things that are boring. Sometimes you have to do things you do not want to do. Life is not about satisfying your lack of commitment to pull your own weight in society. We are not here to keep you entertained. Sounds like you're looking for some place you can just do whatever pleases you and not do anything else.. I hear Australia has good welfare programs for people like you - and the netherlands, too.. in fact, you'd probably be happy anywhere in Europe, where you're expected to be a lazy ass mooch on the rest of the world. What pisses me off the most is that those of us in the top 1% are expected to carry the weight of the bottom 40% just because.. I pay damn near 2 million in income taxes every year, a third of which goes to social programs that keep people like you breathing, only to have you reproduce and introduce more bloodsucking leeches... it's unfortunate that the bottom 40% reproduces like cockroaches because the number of useless barnacles is far outpacing our ability to keep you breathing... the system will eventually collapse.

Ok, enough of that tirade... get a fucking job...

Mostly, go with the flow.

[Gyan]

Don't try too hard to beat or overtake the system. It frequently happens that the class/project/whatever is too slow and/or easy for you. Don't get distracted and procrastinate on something else. Societies and formal institutional systems don't give free reign or tolerate deviants too much unless someone in power recognizes your potential and empathizes. There will be a few aspects where you can do as you wish, but not on the whole. It's not very optimistic advice, but it's practical.

Discover how fucked up the world is

[Anonymous Coward]

And plot to erase the scum that is the bulk of humanity and start afresh...

BWAHAHAHAHHAA... HAHAHAH...

Go into an interesting major

[Avsen]

I guess the major piece of advice is to go into a major you're interested in. However, though you might not enjoya class's topic, you shouldn't ignore it completely. Your undergrad GPA might not be important in the long run (10-20 years), but it's crucial for landing initial interviews in companies which could accelerate your career.

Hmm

[Fullmetal Edward]

The way I find it easiest to learn is to STFU and do it (no offence but it's how I work best). It's all fine and dandy saying "Microsoft says I can do it and gives me paper", but look at alot of tech support, half of them are useless and the other half spend all their time trying to help the useless staff members.

Get your hands on and use a PC/Mac/whatever it is you want to do as much as you can. It's by far the best way to learn.

Bwuhhaha!

[sumac]

Looking for insight on /. into how to cope with "brightness" is like asking Pol Pot how be a kinder gentler leader. Take your self congratulatory diatribe back into you mind where you may (or may not) find some support. It's virtual proof that by posting a question on /. you are in fact "not bright". MENSA wanna-be fool. ...as I wander back into my place in the stupid masses...

Re:Bwuhhaha!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I have to agree with sumac. Your question for the Slashdot community et al probably won't get you much help but it is likely to inspire anger in a lot of people (as you came off arrogant) and, in my opinion, ignorant. It seems to me that you might have ADD, as in your question you repeated the same thing a few times, which unfortunately made me pretty sure that in fact you are most likely an average Joe and not this genius you are trying to hype yourself up to be. Then again, you might be gifted, and that's just fine. The fact of the matter is, you won't get very far in life if you keep touting that you're "Uniquely Bright." It's probably been said a million times already, but you really do need to STFU, get a job, and stop wasting people's time with your "Uniquely Bright" bullshit. On a related note, why in the hell did this make the front page of Slashdot? I think a front page GNAA post would be much more interesting than this narcissistic flamebait. Where are the troll groups when you need them?

My experience...

[bishr]

My experience with this is limited, but that a lot of postgraduate education is not set up for your type; they're looking for people with more discipline, who will see projects through to the end and get published (and possibly make advancements in whatever field).

Your type of intelligence frustrates many people because it's not helpful; to produce usable software or make advancements in practically any field, you need to focus on them for a long time; I'd say that most of the "obvious" or "easy" discoveries have been made, and much of the research out there is fine-tuning what we know.

The best thing to do is to find a mentor, someone who has a similar mindset. You may find one at your institution, but you shouldn't rule out looking further. In order to do discover or create something important, you need to overcome this... Of course, lots of very effective managers and adminstrators are like this; expand your search for a mentor to maybe the field of business... And check your ego at the door. You may think you're incredibly bright, but just wait until you hit postgraduate education. I'm in medical school, and some of the people around me are exceedingly intelligent, and others are average joes like me. The higher you go, the more you realize you're not "uniquely" anything.

Re:My experience...

[Richard_L_James]

I fully agree with you that he should learn to focus on one thing. Or to put it another way it is easier to normally go with the flow than to try to swim up river (well initially anyway). However I do NOT agree with this statement:

I'd say that most of the "obvious" or "easy" discoveries have been made, and much of the research out there is fine-tuning what we know.

There are still many obvious discovers stil to be made for the simple reason that so many people these days are busy working complex ideas that people have forgotten that very simple ideas often make a big difference, e.g. wheel, axe, chalk, paperclip.... Hmmm, paperclip maybe I should have left that one out ;-)

Re:My experience...

[foidulus]

,I>people have forgotten that very simple ideas often make a big difference, e.g. wheel, axe, chalk, paperclip.... Hmmm, paperclip maybe I should have left that one out ;-)
"I see you are trying to think, would you like to know how Microsoft software can help you?"
Sorry, too easy!

Re:My experience...

[foidulus]

gah, stupid shift key

Re:My experience...

[Richard_L_James]

"I see you are trying to think, would you like to know how Microsoft software can help you?" Sorry, too easy!

No as it happens, I didn't even want to even bring the subject of computers into this particular discussion. When I started using computers I didn't even have/use a single Microsoft's product. My first experience of a GUI was GEM. Hence when I think of a paperclip I DO think of a paperclip. I am also by no means fixed on one particular platform or technology. I wanted to make a serious point and actually wanted to refer to the original concept of a paperclip. However I added my last sentance because I knew that if I didn't someone would make a joke about it.... clearly someone still did anyway ;)

[OT] What's the deal with osnews.com?

[rolling_bits]

I can't access it.

Growing up...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was considered pretty bright. People kept complaining about the glare. So I started wearing shades, and things are cool with everyone now.

I feel ya brother...

[Beowulf_Boy]

I'm in the same situation,

If I really enjoy a subject, I get very deep into it. Take for example Grand Prixs. I love my 96 Grand Prix, I'm a member of the National Grand Prix club, work on everything myself, and can resite stats and shit off the top of my head. But I don't want to do car, I don't want to be a mechanic, so that does me absolutly no good at all.

I also tend to fade in and out of hobbies. About once a year I will really get into FPS games for about a month or two, bone back up on them, and be pretty damn good. Then I just stop, it quits interesting me.

I just finished my first year of college. The only advice I can give is, just get through it, and once you have your degree, you can do anything you want. I originally had a major of Computer Engineering, but after becoming extremely frustrated with Electronics, I switched to game design, basically CS with some art tossed in. I really enjoyed electronics at first, I learned alot, and I did a few projects in my spare time. Then, I just stopped liking it. It left the realm of usefullness and became boring. I don't need to know how to bias transistor networks and stuff to do a few hobby electronics projects, and that was all I was really interested in to begin with.

I'm sure my new degree will do the same thing, I'll go with the programming for a while, then it will become boring, and I no longer will enjoy the projects we are doing, they will become to mundane and useless.

So, all I can say is struggle through it, and when you graduate, you will find what you want to do. I really want to be a sys admin. Its what I find interesting. A nice mix of hardware, software (but not alot of programming), and networking. Hopefully I can tought it through the next 3 years of school, and then find a job doing what I enjoy.

Re:I feel ya brother...

[YrWrstNtmr]

just finished my first year of college.
and
once you have your degree, you can do anything you want.

These two statements don't mesh with each other in any sort of reality.

Re:I feel ya brother...

[Beowulf_Boy]

goddamnit, I don't know why I even post to slashdot anymore.

I try to help some people out, try to be a nice guy, and I get bashed for my advice and my taste in cars.

Fuck you all

Re:I feel ya brother...

[zing22]

I'm in the same position, I start a project to tackle things I don't understand - once I've got to grips with it and begin building/coding, I lose interest as I already know the stuff, it seems pointless. I've spent my school years doing very little - I manage to do all my coursework the night before (without exception) and I generally end up with a half-decent grade, but not what I could achieve if I actually bothered. I find it incredibly hard to concentrate on something I am not interested in - so much so I have thought of seeking professional help. If I am meant to be revising geography, for example, I can read ~1page of notes before my attention span is gone... however give me a physics book and I can revise for a good 6 hours w/o break. The hobbies think you mention is EXACTLY me too - once I'm good it becomes boring as I'm not learning / practising anything new so I don't see a point in doing it. I'm not sure what to do once I leave school - as far as I know I'm off to uni (if I get the grades) but after that I have no plans and imagining myself doing one job every day seems torture. Has anyone had a similar experience? Just a 'disclaimer' to stop the flaming - I don't claim to be brighter than the average - I just find it impossible to concentrate on things that don't interest me - but when they do, I become very good at them, due to the sheer quantity of effort I put in.

Re:I feel ya brother...

[Tackhead]

> > "just finished my first year of college.
>
and
> >
once you have your degree, you can do anything you want.
>
>
These two statements don't mesh with each other in any sort of reality.

What about the reality that exists during the four-month period after completion of the first year of college and before the start of the second year of college?

It doesn't have to be a big reality in order for someone to live in it long enough to post to Slashdot.

Re:I feel ya brother...

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel the same as you.
What I like to do is learning, exploring new areas and starting projects. If I don't have any interest in something, I can't work on it (if I am really forced to do it, I'll do it slowly, with a poor result).

I have studied computer science and done a lot of interships because it was my hobby and I wanted to learn as much as possible. But now I am bored. I'll have my engineer diploma (i live in france - dunno what the US equivalent is) in 3 months and I still don't know what to do after school.
I've found school too easy (considering that I had great grades with minimal effort). Maybe I should have picked up a more challenging school but too late for that.

It's been 6 years since I finished high school and left my parents to live on my own. I'm not sure if spending all this time studying was worth it, but there is one thing I'm sure of: I have changed and learned a lot of things about life.

I should probably get a job and work for at least 1 or 2 years to save money, but I am also considering starting my own business (risky but tempting).

What to do?

[Grell]

Find an advisor as widely intrigued by different things as you are who is open to a bit of tinkering with your schedule.

Blow away the core courses the first year or so.

Then use that advisor to fine tune a program for you.

It's a bit of work but your best bet of gaming a system not set up to deal with you.

And remember, once you have the degrees you feel you require; you can then do whatever you want afterwords.

Oh. one more thing interships, preferrably with someplace unique, and don't forget, th really important point of going through college isn't absorbing the information. The important point of going to college is learning how to interact w/ your peers, if you can find any.

Good luck,

G

p.s. If your really, really bright? watch "Real Genius", it's funny; but there's some lessons in their too.

Re:What to do?

[tverbeek]

Quick aside: Real Genius is one of my all-time favorite movies. It's a stoopid college movie for smart people, and gets both parts of that formula right.

I don't know if I'm "uniquely bright" but I only missed 3 questions on the SAT, and I have 4-year degrees in both Comp Sci and Illustration, so I'm definitely not "ordinary".

My first time in college was at a liberal arts school, which was good because it gave me the opportunity to study some of everything. I don't regret declaring the Comp Sci major right away, but I wish I'd played the field a little more first. I didn't have a minor because I didn't focus enough on any one other field to meet the requirements (Philosophy was closest), and spent all my extra time doing fun stuff like doing a radio show, taking pictures for the newspaper, and meddling in student government; that part I did right. (It also gave me what little "social network" I now have to draw upon.) When I went back to art school later, I played the field again, taking life drawing, typography, art history, 3D animation, oil painting, digital painting, photography, etc classes.

I'd like to tell you that the job opportunities for someone with both creative and technical interests are unlimited... but not in my experience. The collapse of the "dot com" industry - which was supposed to create jobs for creative techs in every city in America - is probably partly to blame. Employers want specialists. They'll hire a generalist at entry level, because fresh grads don't have any real specialties, but odds are the job will turn you into a specialist, and every advanced position you try to get will want you to be really good at just two or three things. Your best bet there is to look for work with small employers, because they're more likely to give you more varied things to do. I've worked in corporate, academic, and non-profit places, and the size of the outfit has consistently made more difference in my enjoyment than its mission.

If you can't find a job that satisfies you (and you won't) make sure you find time outside of work to do the stuff that the boss won't let you. My current job is mostly technical (because my first job was, and subsequently those are the only jobs I can get) so I try to spend my weekends writing or drawing or designing web sites.

Smart enough for a 4.0 but don't have it?

[Anonymous Coward]

After you've been out having to work for a living 40+ hours a week, you'll find yourself thinking how easy it would have been to have gone to class, studied, did your homework, and got that 4.0

It ain't smarts, it's effort.

Re:Smart enough for a 4.0 but don't have it?

[bluenova]

Amen to this, mister AC. I went to college straight out of high school on a FULL FREAKIN RIDE. Everything paid for. Changed my major to Computer science after being there for a couple of weeks, had never been exposed to computers of any sort before then. Suddenly it was like a whole new world...I wanted to learn everything I could about it. However, since I was 15 I've never had less than 2 jobs. And I decided to party, and do just about everything but go to class and do homework and the like. Lot's of life experiences, etc., but after 3 years, I was out of college. Pissed it away. Fast forward to 7 years later. I've fought and kicked and scratched my way up, through certifications and experiences and such, and have made my way to being Technology Director of a pretty technologically advanced government entity. However, almost a year ago, when my younger sister graduated from college with a 4.0, it really kicked me in the ass and told me I needed to go back to school. I don't want to be denied career advancement just because I lack a silly piece of paper. So I went back. Taking 12 hours per semester, and working full time. 4.0 since I went back. It is so much easier to go to school when you have some perspective. Also, as a non-traditional student, you can offer experiences to the class that may help them out in the future. And you can definitely learn things from the other students that you probably would have never guessed. Pay for as much of that college as you go as you can. Student Loans are a good deal, but they are loans just the same, and the less interest you have to pay the better. Most colleges will set up payment plans with you, to make it a little easier to finance your education. Go to school. Get it done. Make some new friends. Learn some interesting things. Do it now and you won't have to screw with it later on in life.

Distance Education

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can get by without any social interaction, you'll probably find that Distance Education will keep you happiest. You can study at your convenience (as long as you have the discipline to do so) and do all the 'soul-nourishing' activities that others have mentioned. It's college, once you start working your free time will disappear forever. Enjoy it to the utmost while you have it.

Re:Distance Education

[pbeens]

If you can get by without any social interaction, you'll probably find that Distance Education will keep you happiest.

I doubt this guy will do well in distance ed.

I run across many students like this (I call them gifted learning disabled) and find they generally do not have the organizational skills to succeed in any sort of independent study program. They have learned in their early years of school that they do not have to work hard for their marks, then they slack off and become apathetic, and end up becoming demoralized by the whole education system. Things like to-do lists and deadlines no longer seem important to these students.

This is a real challenge in high school. How do we keep gifted students from becoming bored and not achieving what they are truly capable of?

Re:Distance Education

[Anonymous Coward]

You are right my friend. I was that kind of student... unfortunately.

ME TOO

[Josh Booth]

You have almost described me exactly. Of course, your description was also fairly general. I actually do rather well in school, considering. I'm ~13th out of ~280 HS seniors. However, I find that I tend to like a well defined project to do and research, but get daunted at huge amounts of research. This is why my project to program a symbolic math program has stalled, because I don't know enough theory (I'm mostly self-taught) and why most of my other programming projects fail, since learning how to do widgets in any language is hard since there are so many and different models. Like I said, I do well with a well defined project, and I often treat schoolwork as one.

Justify Yourself

[CommunistTroll]

Why should society recognise you? Why should we all say what a wonderful person you are?

You are part of a ruling elite that sits around wondering "Why isn't my genius praised?" while brighter, better people than yourself suffer hunger, violence and deprevation

You want me to take you seriously? Ditch the capitalistic darwinistic me-me-me anti-enlightenment bullshit and find something bigger than yourself to fight for.

Even fundamentalist christians display more charity than you. Get a life. Join an aid organisation. Join your brothers and sisters in fighting for justice and equality.

Recognize that the core reason why no-one cares for your unique talents is that under capitalism, you are only worth what you can sell those talents for. Got a talent for sport? Have millions. Got a talent for being nice to people? Sucker!

Re:Justify Yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

This merits a "5" as "interesting"? Geez ... it's just some silly cant. (Or should that be "rant"?)

Re:Justify Yourself

[Eric(b0mb)Dennis]

All talents can be sold.... you just have to be creative enough to figure out how to sell them...

A talent for being nice to someone? Sounds like a good salesman to me.. maybe

Re:Justify Yourself

[DrMrLordX]

On the contrary, having a talent for "being nice to people" can land you some very nice work in a capitalist society. Those who have the ability to display kindness to others can land jobs ranging from marketting to customer service to child care and beyond.

Rise to the top of those professions, and you'll have a healthy salary, many subordinates, and scads of opportunities to make a positive impact in your field of choice. Charisma and charm can take you a long way in the US of A, and don't you forget it. Why, just look at that Reagan fellow. He did fairly well, I should think.

Furthermore, what in his question specifically smacks of "capitalist darwinistic me-me-me anti-enlightenment bullshit"? He doesn't even sound terribly selfish compared to anyone else his age. He certainly isn't part of any "ruling elite". He sounds as if he doesn't even have much luck ruling himself.

In fact, I don't think the fellow even really wants societal recognition, per se. He's merely got a lot of options in front of him, is overwhelmed by the variety, and is perhaps a little worried about the rigors and pitfalls of the college life.

Re:Justify Yourself

[Russ Nelson]

Wow. What a load of economic ignorance. You need to read the Angry Economist:

Re:Justify Yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

Grandparent poster says "in capitalism you only are worth what you can sell - nice people aren't rewarded"

Parent posters all say: 'but, properly marketed, being nice is saleable! See, capitalism doesn't suck!'

Get it yet?

Re:Justify Yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

Russ, Russ, Russ.

With an attitude like that you should be ashamed to call yourself a quaker.

Is that dry, angry blog your fruit? What in it speaks to your condition, friend?

Re:Justify Yourself

[Russ Nelson]

Truth.

Re:Justify Yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't despair - your blog is only economics not Truth. Though it seem true, yet it is not the Truth.

Re:Justify Yourself

[Russ Nelson]

You write that as if you were being profound. Instead, you are being foolish. Change economics to physics and you will see that you sound like a flat-earther. Look around! The earth is obviously not flat. And the socialism that most Friends preach works only on flat earths.
-russ

Re:Justify Yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

But economics is not physics - not ordained and unchangable. Economics is affected by who we are, by what institutions we put in place, by our actions in everyday life.

Economics is history, economics is sociology, economics is a reflection of who we are. A fundamental of economic life used to be slavery - even Paul could not forsee a world without it. But eventually we heard the Light, and slavery was rejected.

Economics is our reflection, and should reflect the indwelling Light. Socialism must be intelligent, but society should be based on Love, not Greed.

Re:Justify Yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. What a load of social ignorance. You need to read the Happy Socialist.

Re:Justify Yourself

[Russ Nelson]

Obviously, I disagree. Economics (or at least good economics) is ordained and unchangable. For example, you'll often hear Friends of the FCUN flavor say "Oh, we must think seven generations ahead." That's bullshit. People don't behave that way, and I proved it to them (not that they were paying attention). I said, at an FCUN talk some years ago "I'll donate five dollars now, or twenty dollars five years from now. Which do you want?" They demonstrated their human short-sightedness by asking for the five dollars now.
-russ

Re:Justify Yourself

[Russ Nelson]

I want to add that you reflect a profound misapprehension of what economists do. Economists don't tell you what to do. They tell you what people will do in response to your actions. So, for example, economists will tell you that if you raise the minimum wage, you will cause the workers whose labor is least in demand to become unemployed. Those workers might be lazy, stupid, unskilled, or niggers, or any combination of the above. It's up to you to decide whether you want higher wages and higher unemployment, or full employment. There is no "should" in economics, just as there is no "should" in physics.
-russ

Re:Justify Yourself

[fyngyrz]

Actually, Russ, I'd take your five dollars now and it would not be a short-sighted choice.

Why?

Because five years from now, that five dollars would have been turned into several hundred by me, and only 20, by you.

You're bound to ask the mechanism, and I am in turn delighted to reveal it to you: Simple retail stock investment in selected product coupled with subsequent resale at high multipliers. Jewelry. Lingerie. Sex toys. In other words, anything with a several hundred percent markup, a consistent demand, and a correspondingly decent turnover.

You need a better test.

Re:Justify Yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

"or niggers"

What?

Re:Justify Yourself

[Oligonicella]

"Recognize that the core reason why no-one cares for your unique talents is that under capitalism, you are only worth what you can sell those talents for."

Boy, there's a load of crap. The economic systey you find yourself under in little way influences whether you see someone else's talents as worthwhile.

It's human nature to like some things and dislike others. Those who really don't appreciate art will not appreciate the artist's talents, regardless of social structure. Likewise, those that appreciate art, but have little understanding of the skills required to execute a piece, will still have little appreciation for the artist's talents. Capitalist, socialist, or Communist; it don't matter.

coping with brilliance

[defishguy]

I go into a dark cellar at midnight without a flashlight to look for a black cat that isn't there.

It's called "Renaissance Man"

[Anonymous Coward]

Search through history for others. They exist. Franklin, Jefferson, Edison. Follow in the footsteps of these giants.

Do whatever interests you, but do it well. Pursue seriously, but do not dabble. It is far too easy to become attracted to the beginnings of one distraction after another, instead of the harder-fought completion of one fulfillment after another.

You are not alone.

Consider a non-traditional school

[suitti]

I wanted an engineering degree. External discipline is a waste of time for me. Given something I'm interested in, I'm plenty self-motivated.

For engineering, I went with Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester Mass. When I was there, it was strictly pass/fail, with failing grades dropped from the transcript. I understand that it's now A/B/C with failing grades dropped.

It's no joke. It's quite expensive, and only about 30% actually get a degree. However, you get the freedom to take the courses you want and persue projects free form. There are two degree requirement projects. Mine both required four terms (semesters). I worked both in teams, though that isn't strictly required.

External, forced discipline is, in my opinion, demotivational. However, it appears that most people require it.

WPI is good for undergraduate education in Engineering and a few sciences (chemistry, physics, etc.). Don't even consider it if this isn't what you want.

No school prepares you with knowledge needed for what you'll do next. WPI prepares you with how to figure out how to aquire new skills as you need them. If you get this, you are ahead of the game.

Re:Consider a non-traditional school

[chrismtb]

I am currently attending WPI and I agree that it can be a very good option for some people.

I did well in high school, but never really put forth much effort, except for in the subjects that interested me. I mostly just went through the motions and got good grades because most of it was relatively easy. At WPI, I've found myself motivated to work much harder because everything I am doing there is something I am interested in. There are no required courses or prerequisites, so students can choose their own path without obstruction. Instead of taking a bunch of useless intro courses to fulfill general-ed requirements, they only require students to choose one humanities subject, in which they take 5 courses and a project, which ensures that students are studying something that is truly of interest to them.

Grades are done A/B/C/NR, where NR stands for No Record and disappears from the transcript. This give students the freedom to take more difficult courses without worrying about having an F show up on their transcript, while still encouraging students to strive for high letter grades. WPI currently requires 3 major projects: a sufficiency in humanities, an interactive qualifying project (often done abroad at one of WPI's dozens of project centers worldwide), and a major qualifying project. The projects give students a large degree of real-world experience and allow them to work in groups if desired.

Additionally, it is a very stimulating environment. Just being in the presence of so many similarly-minded intellectuals has helped motivate me and has allowed me to enjoy my time there so far.

WPI is certainly not the right school for everyone, but for some people, it is a perfect fit. I am sure there are plenty of similar schools around the country and around the world. In general, you might find it helpful to go to a non-traditional school that caters specifically to your field of study. This would put you among people with similar interests and might help you to become more interested in your schoolwork. You have obviously already chosen a college, but if you find that you really don't like where you are at, you might consider transferring to somewhere more suitable.

Re:Jesus

[Anonymous Coward]

That's funny as hell

Your first textbook should be ...

[garyok]

... "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. Forget about how damn clever you think you are, just remember that all anybody has ever really been doing is trying to give you a boost when they tell you you're clever. You're not that clever. No-one is. Everybody has their own talents (and deficiencies) and people deserve respect, not some teenage nitwit telling them they're all dummies in comparison to him. Try to be clever and and 'beat' people in arguments and you'll only piss people off.

You want to learn something useful: it's better to be kind than clever.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[wibs]

That's an ironic sig to have after that post.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[helix400]

I second this. The author of this article showed his stupidity in two glaringly obvious ways.

First, he still has some obnoxious ego problem. It's not "I'm smarter than you, neener neener!", but it's still "I don't mean to bother you, but I'm smarter than you." This is not a smart way of dealing with other people.

Second, people who are smart, yet do nothing with it, are also stupid. He derides school, yet obviously did not give his studies his full attention. If an assignment was mundance, did he try to spend his free time going above and beyond in learning more about the topic? It doesn't sound like it, he is too lazy and arrogant to believe should learn more. The world looks down on people who have talents and refuse to use them.

And as parent article explained, why not move onto other challenges in life? If he is so bright, can he go into a room full of people and carry on conversations with all of them? Being an amazing person requires far more than IQ. I'd honestly like to see if his maturity, common sense, people skills, and personal happiness are on par with his brightness. Somehow, I doubt they are. If the author feels he so amazing, then why doesn't he tackle some of life's other great challenges?

Heh, I don't hate the author at all, he just needs to realize he isn't nearly as smart as he thinks he is. And as soon as he realizes this, his questions of "How do I deal with being so great" will be replaced with "So many people can do things in life I can't. How can work harder at becoming like they are?"

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[quarrelinastraw]

I agree. No matter how smart you think you are, it's generally a bad idea to introduce yourself as uniquely clever. I'm only a bit older than you and consider myself to be reasonably smart and have some academic credentials to prove it (graduating top of my class at an prestigious college next week). Here is my advice to you. (1) don't be a snob. If you're smart, that's fine. But don't say you're uniquely smart or smarter than other people. That's just annoying. (2) Do the very very best you can in school. You're not going to achieve anything brilliant by being smart at a temp job. Whether or not you find school interesting, your best bet is to go and suck it up. (3) Poke around until you find something you like. This may mean trying different subjects, but it may also mean doing one very specialist area in one subject. My last piece of advice, quite honestly, is to get checked out for adult ADD. Assuming you're as smart as you think you are (and I don't doubt it), it looks like something you might have. I would check it out online, and then if it looks like you, call up a doctor. I know ADD gets a bad reputation, but adult ADD is really a problem.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[Anonymous Coward]

it's better to be kind than clever.

Bzzzt!

The eternal chant of those who never could accomplish anything on their own. They end up valuing feelings more than concrete works beacuse that is all they have!

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[Bishop]

At its core the book How to Win Friends and Influence People is a book on social engineering. It is study on hacking society. Every geek should read it.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[zsau]

Being kind's never got me anywhere. Most kind and nice people I know are really bitter, and generally bastards, too. For a while, I thought being nice necessarily meant being a bastard. (I'm almost sure that I've come to the realisation that that's wrong, and it's possible to have a nice person who isn't a bastard, but I'm not entirely certain...)

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[keraneuology]

If the author feels he so amazing, then why doesn't he tackle some of life's other great challenges?

Speculations:

Doesn't know how

Doesn't know which challenge to tackle

Runs in to too many people who ask "if you're so smart why aren't you rich?

In most of the corporations I've seen, creativity and brilliance are actively squashed. The brilliant person who can increase revenue 20% over the next 20 years isn't nearly as revered as the mediocre person who sees that by cutting back on customer service they can increase revenue 30% next quarter. Look at what Bell Labs has done with all of the brilliant researchers they used to employ. Granted, some companies (google, for example) seeks out and rewards exception talent, but such companies are the exception rather than the rule.

It is always interesting to note that society, to a much greater extent, tolerates the arrogance of people who wander the streets saying "I can play basketball better than you" or "I can afford a much more expensive car than you", than it can tolerate anybody who even hints - justifiably or not - that they may be more intelligent than others.

Shaq can play basketball, but can solve no problems. He gets millions (and no, I don't have a problem with that... I'm a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist). The guy with an IQ of 190 but was bullied into being too shy to be anything more than a gas station clerk behind bullet-proof glass is an arrogant git who deserves what he gets for being lazy. Never mind that if given the chance he could invent new basketball shoes that gives Shaq an extra 3" on his vertical or solve world hunger. He's smart, doesn't know how to use his smarts (do you think they teach that sort of thing in public school?) and arrogant, lazy, and probably lying about how smart he is.

Makes sense to me.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[wibs]

If all you can measure your life by are the accolades on your wall then you have led a very hollow life.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[Bombcar]

Shaq can play basketball, but can solve no problems.

Dude, he's the Big Aristotle!

He's gotta be smart! [grin]

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[Myopic]

Somewhat coincidentally, an hour ago I read the last few pages of Carnegie's other, not-quite-so-famous book, "How To Stop Worrying And Start Living". The title says it all. I'm not a worrier but I liked "How To Win Friends" when I read it years ago, so I picked this other book up. It's also a good read, for even the non-worrier I suppose but especially for anyone who goes home angry or wound up at the end of the day. It's three hundred and fifty pages of ways to just let it go...

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[Anonymous Coward]

If I were to come up with a list of books geeks should read, "How to win friends and influence people" would be right on top of the list. It could be the most important book many young, angry slashdotters, who feel alone and isolated, could read. The main principle is simple: People like people who are interested in them; people don't like people who are overtly interested in themselves - describing yourself as "uniquely bright" is one sure-fire way to annoy people. Someone should do a slashdot book review.

As a corollary, I'd quote another poster "FIND AND CHERISH GOOD FRIENDS." What you can't do alone, you can do with other people.

Second, be a pragmatist, not an ideologue. Someone once said politics is the art of the possible, the art of compromise. Pick up a biography of any great political figure, and you would read of compromises he had to make. What works for world leaders works for ordinary folks - to get somewhere, you need to compromise, do things that aren't immediately exciting or pleasant. If you're really "uniquely bright", you should be able to figure that out.

On the other hand, don't try to please everybody. No one who was liked by everybody ever got anything significant done. This seems to contradict my points above, but again, it's all about compromise and balance.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[poloace]

I have a similar background and here are some things that I've learned over the years:

- College wasn't for me. I dropped out and fortunately it worked out ok. Don't be afraid to take the old school, traditional path (on the job training).
- You won't have patience for routine things like paperwork, paying bills, etc. You'd better develop some serious self dicipline or you'll be screwed in the long run. (suggestion: join the military to develop those skills well)
- You'll think you know more than everyone else. There are valuable lessons to learn all around you every day. Develop good relationships with highly successful people. Watch them closely and learn from them. You'll be surprised just how much more there is to learn, especially in fields outside your own.
- Having the biggest brain is not the most valuable item to most companies. Having diverse expert knowledge and sharing it in a constructive way with everyone around you is highly valuable to companies. You end up becoming a force multiplier to the company. Everyone around you improves. If you don't develop your social skills though and use them in a way that people can accept, you'll poison everyone against you. People skills count in a big way.
- Most jobs have some level of routine tasks that have to be performed on a semi-regular basis. Mix a little interesting work into each day to keep yourself from getting bored. Don't let it dominate to the point of not getting your key work done though.
- Don't have contempt for the others around you. If you see them as people with little knowledge compared to yourself, then you aren't really seeing the complete person. You're only comparing them against your own skillset. You need to look for unique qualities and skills that they have that you may not. Appreciate them for their own gifts and talents. If you can see where they're better than you in other areas, you'll not approach them with arrogance and contempt. By understanding those unique talents, as a team you'll all be more effective.
- Take on the areas or problems that no one else wants to take. You'll find that there's usually a hidden jewel in that area and an opportunity to show your creative talents. In doing so, you'll provide great value to the company.
- The suggestion of reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is right on target. I live by those principlines and it's served me very well in business and my personal life.
- Take everyone's advice constructively about getting over yourself. You may be right about the fact that you're bright, but trust me, there's always someone brighter. If you're lucky, you'll find someone like that in your career. They'll usually put you in your place a bit. If you find someone like that that also has strong people skills, try to get them to mentor you. I had someone like that and I owe him a lot in my professional development.

Good luck

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[Shajenko42]

It will also teach you that your ability to manipulate other people is more important than your ability to do anything else.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[cecil36]

Ditto that. If you have the money, I would go look in your area and see who is offering the Dale Carnegie Course. My parents took the course over 10 years ago, and they are strongly encouraging me to enroll in it as well. A less expensive option would be to join a network marketing group that has a strong distributor training program. This was the route I went in '99, and it has given me the social skills I needed to complete college and land a decent job in a tight IT labor market.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[thebeaglebeagle]

Yes! Absolutely! I read this book in my sophomore year of highschool. It completely changed my geek-life. I went from being the surly, unmotivated "bright" kid to... well, a friendly and social unmotivated "bright" kid. It took me another four years to get over myself and develop a healthy humility. Still, it was great book. :-)

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[Garak]

I agree with this post. I started taking ritalin after high school when I went to collage. It made a big difference. I went from 50's in highschool to a 4.0 in collage. It helps me get stuff done.

Ritalin turns seamingly "lazy" people into productive memebers of socity. Time to start pumping it into the water supply :p j/k ofcourse...

The biggest problems with ritalin is that people abuse it and it dosn't mix with alcohol. So they should find a way to make it unattractive for snorting(add some nasty smelling stuff to it) and make alcohol illegal(also legalize pot to take its place). The ritalin makes people more productive in the day and the pot makes them more relaxed/less volient in the night. Its a great ballance.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[PMuse]

Being kind's never got me anywhere.

Kind is what we're supposed to be to those who need us more than we need them. We don't get paid for kind; we pay kind forward. If you must think of a balance between the kind you get and the kind you give, then sum up all the good things you've ever received that you didn't pay for and start making up for them.

What are we to do with all the excess in our lives? Consume it? Hoard it? Ridiculous. That's what kind is for: redistributing the excess.

Rent the film Pay It Forward, if you haven't yet.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[PMuse]

Forget about how damn clever you think you are, just remember that all anybody has ever really been doing is trying to give you a boost when they tell you you're clever. You're not that clever. No-one is.

Oh, don't be silly. They are, too. I've met them. They're a darned sight cleverer than I am. I'm lucky to stay with them for 3 moves before I'm bested. And for me, there are some people that couldn't stay with me for 3 moves. There are some absolute scales and some of the evaluations you've had from people can be pegged to those scales.

The point is: so what? The game of life isn't all about cleverness.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[Inthewire]

I keep running into you in this thread...ban alcohol and sanction marijuana?
Google "active placebo" and get back to me.

Re:Your first textbook should be ...

[Anonymous Coward]

every self respecting geek should find little there they dont already know, except repetition.

Insecure is *right*

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah - he could have a 4.0, he's just "different".

Yeah, just keep telling yourself that.....

Re:Insecure is *right*

[NuclearDog]

The truth is, some people (including myself) are like that. I was getting mostly As with the odd B until one morning I woke up and said to myself, "Fuck it. Why bother?" and went back to sleep and haven't even tried at anything since. Most of my exams are handed in no more than 25% or so done. So I get an F. WHO THE FUCK CARES? Not my teacher, not anyone else, so if I don't care, then what is the big deal?

So let's say I tried at life, became successful, made a lot of money (which is most of society's definition of success), so fucking what? To me that is just a dick measuring type of thing. He who dies with the most money, STILL DIES.

What is the point? I've tried hard. I've been intelligent. The world isn't made for that. IMO, society's attitude is: "If you don't fit the cookie cutter, wearing trendy clothing and drinking starbucks coffee, then fuck you." So I wake up every morning, and make a conscious effort to dumb myself down simply so I can put up with this world. Ah, how fucked up the world is... that is a whole 'nother rant.

</depressed rant>

I realize this is kind of off-topic, and mostly pointless, but with my bad karma most of Slashdot shouldn't have to read it anyways. I'll go be depressed somewhere else now...

My suggestion

[Froze]

From my personal experience. I got my GED when I was 16 and *dropped out*, tried my hand and a dozen blue colar, under the table jobs for about ten years (once I developed appreciable skill, I got bored and started a different job). Finally got frustrated because I wanted to talk about things more interesting than whether or not the cattle had been moved on/off the back 40 and enrolled in college. Never been happier, every class was a new challenge and the topics where as diverse as I cared to enroll in. Currently working on my PhD in Physics and still like it (8 years of academia and counting).

So the way I see it is you have two choices, the school of hard knocks or a legitamate university somewhere. If you are not into hoop jumpin (I certainly wasn't at your age) then strike out on your own and do whatever you feel like. Take any opportunity that comes your way and don't worry about anythinig. On the other hand, if you are ok with a bit of administrivia, get into the academic life, I think you will find the wide variety richly rewarding (not to mention that the people you will meet will generally be of somewhat higher calliber).

Philosophic Education

[Anonymous Coward]

Based on a similar profile, and now being 25, I would suggest the following things:

- Enroll in University, preferably one that you can enjoy (good campus, good faculty)
- Learn Languages (greek, latin, french, german etc...)
- study Math and the scientific method
- study philosophy and the dialectic and intelligible methods of proof

Knowing languages will give you access to information and learning from across the world and from periods in the past without rellying on translations. Studying math/sciences with give you methods of proof and practise in rigourus thinking. All of these are precursors of a "philosophic" or Great Books education. Further to these subjects, explore the history of ideas, i.e. philosophy. Start with Classical thinkers, such as Plato, Aristotle, Cicero, Plotinus etc... etc...
From there progress through history, examining original works in their original languages and their counter-arguments.

For example, Plato's educational ideas were contrary to those of Isocrates, read both, understand the proofs, and if you've done it right, you'll have the tools to generate your own proofs and ideas.

It took me 8 years to discover this type of education is what I wanted out of life, I wish someone had explained this to me when i was 17.

This type of education does not preclude learning about computers, botany, cooking etc.... But it provides you the methods and intellectual skills to examine and understand the arguments for yourself and decide what you wish to study and how to justify your beliefs.

I hope this helps give you some ideas for your future.

(brief biography: graduated with honours from highschool, attempted university for 2 years, dropped out, wasted time for several years, completed a diploma from a community college in networking, re-enrolled in philosophy at university and discovered the above, which is what i'd been searching for my whole life)

Do something *REALLY* hard.

[Dasein]

So, I was in the "gifted" program going through schools and it was all pretty easy for me as well. My big regret is that I didn't work harder at academics to begin with. I ended up getting a job instead. Although I've learned a lot and accomplished a lot, I've always wondered exactly what I missed by staying in school and working really hard. I look back on all the money and career success and I frankly hold it pretty cheap.

So my advice, is find the hardest major in which you're interested and go work your ass off. Then, when you get to be my age and look back on it, you won't have to wonder because you went all out and did something really hard.

Re:Do something *REALLY* hard.

[sjwaste]

I agree. If college really isn't challenging, be a math major. It'll get hard, no matter how smart you are, if you want it to. I remember my first couple years where I'd never go to calculus, show up for the exams, ace them with no outside work. I thought, "so what?" Yeah, well, no matter how smart you are, you aren't just going to pick up things like tensor calculus without trying. It's usually taught in the graduate level, but if you ask nicely, you might get a professor to do it as an independent study and it WILL be hard. Part of it is realizing that you're pretty smart, even as smart as you think you are (which my girlfriend HATES about me), but that there will be things out there that challenge and humble you. The last sentence might be the most important thing I learned in college, and because of it, I'm continuing my education into graduate work. I hope the kid who asked the original question figures this out for himself before he quits out of frustration.

Re:Do something *REALLY* hard.

[Anonymous Coward]

I did electrical engineering because I wanted a challenge.. boy did I find one. :)

Do something like a math degree or electrical, mechanical engineering or something of the ilk if you think you're good. I know I was depressed for a week when I flunked my first course.. the third time, it wasn't so bad. :)

May not need to finish college

[Alternate Interior]

I'm very much an INTP, and fit the poster's description as well. Hated school, likes learning. I registered for college, cause that's what you're supposed to do. Finished the first semester with a 4.0, had to force myself to register for the next semester. One of my teachers in semester one told me about a job opening in the company she works for. So I applied and got hired as a programmer. With 1 college CS class and 1 high school CS course under my belt. Admitadly, I'm self taught over many years in programming, but still, that's all the formal education I have. Continuing college isn't a condition of holding the job.

So check into something like that. Doesn't have to be programming, but as long as you aren't living in Silicon Valley or anywhere like that, you may well be able to get a good job without the degree.

Re:May not need to finish college

[Paleomacus]

I did something similar. 6 weeks in to my first semester in college and I landed a part-time programming job. I'm now entering my 4th year of school in the fall and have a truck load of practical experience.

Continuing in school isn't requisite for this job. If I quit school I have a full time position waiting for me. I've been able to force myself to keep up with school pretty well until this past semester. My GPA has been pretty consistent. Mid-range 2. I do virtually no work for school outside of programming projects. Which is probably why I'm on academic probation this fall(failed calc II, my 1st failed class ever).

School is enjoyable as far as the peer interaction goes(read: drinking and being stupid).

Exceptionally bright?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm the dullest tool in the suite of arms, you insensitive clod!

I was in the same boat

[gothzilla]

I was just like that when I was younger. Kept getting put in honors and advanced classes because of my intelligence yet finished high school with a 2.05 GPA because I was so bored and couldn't get into the subjects. Tried college and I just wasn't into it. Ended up joining the military so I wouldn't have to work for minimum wage anymore. Seriously, suck it up and finish college. The regret of not finishing lasts a lifetime.
I found that spending a lot of time studying things I liked helped deal with the more mundane aspects of life. You don't have to end up in a dull job though, no matter what you like or are good at, there can be good money to be made doing it if you plan and think ahead. Every career has good paying jobs and bad ones, and the good paying jobs are far fewer. Welders can make some money welding mufflers, or they can learn underwater welding and make serious cash.
Most importantly, don't let anyone tell you what you should do for a career. Most people won't be able to comprehend your situation and offer good advice. I let a girl talk me into being a physics major and even though I was plenty smart enough to do it, it wasn't something I was very interested in and failed miserably.
Find your interests and follow your heart.

Welcome to the club...

[Yaa 101]

Just do what you wanna do, but do it instead of talking about it...

That's all...

Good luck!!

I'm with you...

[stevens]

I was in the same boat. If a topic interests me, I eat it up with vigour. If I'm uninterested or bored with it, I can't even force myself to do it. Result in school? A mix of A+ and C-.

I went into programming because it interested me. I was lucky that it is also a very unregulated industry--you don't need a string of letters after your name; my Bachelor's does fine. This is important for people like us, because you want a career where knowledge counts but certificates don't (as much).

My advice is: never stop learning, but don't waste your time with too much school. I declined grad school because I thought I'd die from boredom; but after a few of years working I have a position where I basically get to direct my own work to what I find interesting. Businesses need self-learning, independent thinkers. Trust me, I'm trying to hire, and while there are many "trained" people, there are few with an agile mind and good judgment. We have enough drones.

Don't drop out of your undergrad--it's great fun! But try to slog through the boredom, and learn as much as possible on the way. Good luck with school, but remember to get out before you lose your mind.

Re:I'm with you...

[sql*kitten]

If a topic interests me, I eat it up with vigour.

Dude, everyone in the world is enthusiastic about doing things they enjoy.

If I'm uninterested or bored with it, I can't even force myself to do it.

That's the difference, see. Other people do things they don't enjoy because they can see the big picture. "Sure I don't like this bit of my job", the reasoning goes, "but if I do it I get paid and I can spend the money on doing what I want to do". Those who can't do things they don't enjoy are the ones who can't see the big picture and as such, they'll fail at whatever they try - there is no worthwhile activity on earth that's fun all the time.

Sounds to me..

[Raven42rac]

Sounds to me like you are a borderline sociopath. I can identify with most (in fact, nearly all) of the post, but I don't burden others with my feelings of superiority, and toot my own horn about how bloody different and smart I am. That is being an asshole. If you are looking for validation about how smart you are and how you have broad tastes and interests, look elsewhere.

Re:Sounds to me..

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds to me like you are a borderline sociopath. I can identify with most (in fact, nearly all) of the post,

Yeah, sounds like you've got both of you pegged.

Re:Sounds to me..

[Raven42rac]

Read my post again, sparky. I said
"I can identify with most (in fact, nearly all) of the post, but I don't burden others with my feelings of superiority, and toot my own horn about how bloody different and smart I am."

You're unique, just like everybody else.

[Digitus1337]

I love information and knowledge, but HATED high school. I just got word last weekend that I squeezed through and recieved a diploma. My test scores got me into university and i'm set to start there in a few months. I've tried to keep busy by learning outside of school and the traditional circuits.

Be aware..

[Anonymous Coward]

If you seek perfection in anything you do, you will never finish anything.

add or asperger's?

[circletimessquare]

positive add:
add

personal asperger's:
asperger's

Re:add or asperger's?

[Billobob]

Just out of curiousity, is it possible anymore to be smart and not have some "syndrome" or "disorder" be at the roots? Or maybe, just *maybe*, we are going to come up with a name for every type of personality. How about "Blondititus syndrome" for being overly chirpy, or "Assholus Maximus" being a dick to everybody?

Re:add or asperger's?

[richardtallent]

Aspie's are only one part of the so-called "smart" population. We're "smart" in a different way than many other "smart" people--not better or worse, but focused differently. But personality is a combination of brain chemistry and choice. I know Aspies who are bitter and egotistical, and others who are gregarious and loving. Where you start != where you are.

Labeling *symptoms* leads to stereotypes and bigotry (fat="lazy", dyslexic="stupid", etc.), but finding root *causes* and labeling them, I think, gives people an understanding of *why* they are how they are and thus *how* to improve. Without the attempt and desire to improve and work within your gifts and limitations, the label simply becomes and excuse.

google cache for INTP

[Billobob]

the main site took about 3 minutes to load for me, blah blah blah im a karma whore whatever blah blah blah... link

What you need...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thomas Edison said genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.

You're probably a creative person with a lot of imagination. But if you never learn to focus and develop the discipline to see your dreams to completion, you'll never know if you're a genius or just conceited.

You can't be a great writer, physicist, programmer, entrepreneur, musician or anything without a LOT of work. If you can't meet the eventual challenges of tedium and frustration inherent in any discipline, then expect to find yourself in career that never challenges you.

Buckle Down, Finish the Undergrad Stuff

[thepustule]

Plot down everything you have learned on a time scale of when it was "discovered". The math you've learned so far, for instance, is hundreds of years old. You're about to start your college undergrad years, where you begin working that timeline right down to the present.

You're going to have to buckle down and slug through those years like everyone else, and round out that brain of yours. You might think you're oh so special, and you may very well be, but it'll all be a lot more useful if you "do the time" and stick it through college to the end and get your paper. Lots of "bright" people sound really stupid because they're in a discussion they know nothing about because they never learned the full complement of "stuff" that you need to know to make your way in this world.

By the time you finish your undergrad years, you'll have brought that time-scale of things right down to the point where professors are teaching you stuff they just discovered last week. That's when you're getting somewhere! And then - maybe - you'll have an opportunity to use that "brightness" and contribute to the body of knowledge and make this planet a better place.

Or you can make the same blunder I did, and walk away from a possible academic career, to become yet another cog in the mindless, exploitative business world, where everything exists but to add fat to the shareholder.

I'm not bitter - Honest! Ah - give me a fork...

Re:Buckle Down, Finish the Undergrad Stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

No, usually stuff you learn in undergrad has been around for a few decades. For the cutting edge knowledge, you generally need to go to grad school.

Get over yourself. You are just LAZY.

[Anonymous Coward]

You described the adolescent life of what likely amounts to 90% of the readership here. You want to know what to do with yourself?

1. Always choose right over wrong. Don't start harping about "what's right?" You know what it is. When faced with a decision, choose right.

2. Do NOT quit. If you start something, FINISH it. Leaving things undone leaves YOU undone. You think you are not yet achieving your potential? Try adopting this rule.

3. When you cross paths with someone, try to leave them better for having met you. You'll be surprised how much this one contributes to your own sense of worth.

That's it.

Don't listen to this cynic

[freejung]

You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.

On the contrary, you most definitely are. And not only that, but you have a unique and beautiful contribution to make to life, you just don't know what it is yet. Don't worry about that. It will come to you in time.

The only good advice I can give you is to follow your heart. That may sound trite, but it's true. The Universe is way too complex for even the best brain to control and predict. You never know what's going to happen to you. It's far more important that you do the right thing than it is that you do what is a "good career move" or whatever.

Don't save your soul-nourishing for anything, get it in everything you do. If what you're doing doesn't nourish your soul, do something else. Don't feel you have to do any particular thing just because it looks like an easy path to money. The most extraordainary things can happen in life, so keep your eyes and heart open.

"Don't worry if you don't know what to do with your life. The most interesting people I know didn't know at 20 what they wanted to do with their lives either. Some of them most interesting 40 year olds still don't." -- Utah Phillips

Re:Don't listen to this cynic

[Anonymous Coward]

Mr.Phillips, im 21 in college, in comm, not sure what to do with my life.... are these interesting people you talk about rich, or least well off?? cause the bum on the street is quite an interesting fellow. You know, to chat to when you get locked out of home for a few hours... get my drift?

Re:Don't listen to this cynic

[Otter]

Don't save your soul-nourishing for anything, get it in everything you do. If what you're doing doesn't nourish your soul, do something else. Don't feel you have to do any particular thing just because it looks like an easy path to money. The most extraordainary things can happen in life, so keep your eyes and heart open.

In the big picture (a time scale of years, or quarters), absolutely.

In reality, though, no matter how perfect a fit you find for yourself, there will be hours, or days or weeks or months, where you need to suck it up and apply yourself to something tedious. There are a tiny handful of people for whom that's not the case; you'd know if you were one of them. My personality sounds a lot like yours -- learning to cowboy up and work was something I finally figured out in grad school, and really missed having earlier.

Also, don't tell people how smart you are. I know you're trying to frame it as inoffensively as possible but there is no good way.

Re:Don't listen to this cynic

[Frequanaut]

hippy

Re:Don't listen to this cynic

[Anonymous Coward]

You two (the negative one and postive) are two extremes, you should both be moderate, and see instead what is lacking in his life and why he for instance does not succeed to very well and in the end needs to seek advice from here.

Dear anonymous pal, im pretty much what you described and all I can tell you, im lacking discipline, and that stops pretty much everything. So my advice is to look into the discipline or anything else thatm ight be lacking and hindering.

Re:Don't listen to this cynic

[UpnAtom]

Great posts.

Also:
Choose your advisors carefully.
Take the time to find out what's REALLY important to you. What's likely to maintain your interest in the long term?

Re:Don't listen to this cynic

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the Cowboy Up reference.. go Sox!

Re:Don't listen to this cynic

[Dj Superfly]

I'm surprised at the vehemence of some of these negative responses. I had no idea people might be so antagonistic to someone asking a genuine questions about finding their path in life.

I agree with freeyoung's comments wholeheartedly.
I think Rilke said it best in his "Letter's to a young poet"
"...have patience with everything unresolved in your heart and to try to love the questions themselves as if they were locked rooms or books written in a very foreign language. Don't search for the answers, which could not be given to you now, because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps then, someday far in the future, you will gradually, without even noticing it, live your way into the answer. Perhaps you do carry within you the possibility of creating and forming, as an especially blessed and pure way of living; train your for that - but take whatever comes, with great trust, and as long as it comes out of your will, out of some need of your innermost self, then take it upon yourself, and don't hate anything."

Or as Rumi put it, a bit more succinctly,
"Let who you are be what you do, there are a thousand ways to kneel and kiss the earth."

You don't have to follow the rules, but you do have to learn what they are and figure out how to get around them. :)

good luck

Re:Don't listen to this cynic

[kfg]

"Don't worry if you don't know what to do with your life. The most interesting people I know didn't know at 20 what they wanted to do with their lives either. Some of them most interesting 40 year olds still don't." -- Utah Phillips

"Make sure your heroes are dead, that way they can't fuck it up."

I miss Bruce. They don't let him out of Nevada City much anymore and I'm on the other coast, part of the old Caffe Lena crowd. I'm going to have to try to make a pilgramage before he kicks off to give him one last chance to fuck it up.

He walked me across a folkie "scab line" once. Weird situation a scab line comprised of old time reds and union people. Didn't faze him a bit, he just threw his arm around me and said, "Come with me, you belong here," and waltzed me in. No one dared say anything about it to him.

I keep a quarter I "won" from him in a bet. I was pretty insistent that I was right and he said, "Oh, yep, you're right, here ya go" and gave me the quarter. Later research informed me that I had been dead wrong. He's that sort of guy.

I'll definately have to get out to California if he can't make it to the east again. I owe him a quarter.

KFG

Re:Don't listen to this cynic

[KenFury]

Yes he is unique, just like everyone else..

I feel ya.

[Anonymous Coward]

yer fucked, get over it. no, kidding. you aren't all that unique though, there is a whole subsection of the population that falls into your category(myself included) my advice is to focus on the thigns your bad at, otherwise your going to fall on your face hard and not be able to do the things you are good at later. it sucks, i know, but school has to get done to get the interesting jobs, other wise all the bastards on slashdot will get them, and you'll end up working at mcDonalds. (i speak from experience here as well, i am a better sys admin than most of them out there, but untill i get that precious degree, no one wants to hear from me. oh well....)

It's all about focus, not brains

[grqb]

One thing that I've learned is that brains mean pretty much nothing...even in University. If you can't motivate yourself to work on things that you don't like, then you won't be productive, no doubt about it. Think of all the courses that you'll be forced to take, dollars to doughnuts you won't like half of them. The same goes for anything you do, you'll always get assigned projects that you won't be interested in.

The trick is to learn how to force yourself into enjoying something.

Don't Listen to These Bitter Losers

[Anonymous Coward]

To me you sound like someone that might make a name for themself someday. The trick is to find something that you love that will make a living for you and dig into it. I'm going to go out on a limb and give a quantitative testimony. I have an IQ of 153. Higher than average, but a lot lower than some of my friends, particularly my wife. I had terribly mediocre grade in high school (C- average) and went straight into music school, then dropped out after a year. For two years I worked as a cook. Eventually I went back to school, got a bachelor's degree and master's degree in aerospace engineer, worked for NASA, and then started my own company. Now I work as a consultant and do what I love (software). I work from home and travel when I need to. Here's my suggestion: don't listen to these people. If you're really bright, and you work hard at what you love, you'll be successful. My family attributes my success to being "reasonably bright" and extremely persistent. What I HAVE seen, is a lot of very bright people without any real ambition. Sounds like most of your naysayers fall in the same category.

something uniquely odd about your 'question'

[malus]

Am I the only reader who thinks this ask slashdot 'question' resembles a match.com profile more that a question?

Re:something uniquely odd about your 'question'

[turbosk]

"this ask slashdot 'question' resembles a match.com profile more that a question"

I'm with you. You know how they say there's no such thing as a stupid question? Well, they may have been wrong.

"I'm incredibly intense and concentrated, yet I often become bored of specific projects in a few months." Specfically, what specific projects? And, really, who wouldn't?

"My interests are broad, from computers (linux/os x/php/mysql/etc) to photography to cookery, I'm creative and technical." Does there exist a more generic "hobby" than photography and cooking? And you want world peace and to feed the hungry yadda yadda.

"I can't stand being completely technical alone, but I love it in moderation. My attention span is practically unlimited when I am interested in a topic, and I get intensely interested in it." This bit is soooooo obviously cut-and-pasted....

bah. asshats.

Reserve the word Bright

[bstadil]

The headline really irritates me as I was hoping the word Bright was gaining traction in the Do not believe in a deity sense.

Why not use intelligence in it's many forms for what the guy is after.

Atheist has a negative meaning foisted upon us by the Theists that seems to be unable to accord the Faith "reasoning" to non-theists that they themselves hold so dear.

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[Creepy Crawler]

That site smacks of a Pre 1997-Geocities atmosphere. It looks like crap.

And lets see, the copyright of that site is 2003... Hmm, I think the word "Bright" has been around longer than that.

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[crmartin]

I'm actually rather pleased that the heading proves your silly, arrogant, asinine use of a perfectly fine word is not catching on. If you're embarrassed by the word "atheist" maybe it's not the word's issue.

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[Squeamish Ossifrage]

For pete's sake: You can't take a word that's in common use, re-define it, and expect people to take it up. Language change happens, but you can't force it.

It also doesn't help when your re-definition is absurdly conceited. You're essentially claiming that yours is the intelligent position by appropriating the word. It would be Orwellian if it weren't ridiculous.

...And this is coming from someone who agrees with the principles "Brights" espouse.

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[Otter]

Who are you, Richard Stallman? Make up your own damn word instead of appropriating one and then "correcting" everyone who uses it normally.

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[bstadil]

If you're embarrassed by the word "atheist" maybe it's not the word's issue

The problem is that you always get the asinine question "Can you prove it"

No I can't, but it is a lot more likely than the crap organized churches dishes out and that even intelligent people thinks is honky dory.

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[bstadil]

You can't take a word that's in common use, re-define it, and expect people to take it up.

No I guess not, maybe I was over reacting.

So in the spirit of your comment I am looking forward to Microsoft loosing the Windows tradmark case against Lindows ;-)

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[Keck]

Remind me why this is moderated "Insightful" instead of "Off-topic, Personal Soap Box That Nobody Else Gives A Crap About" or "Self-important Whining" ??

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[Frobnicator]

Who are you, Richard Stallman? Make up your own damn word instead of appropriating one and then "correcting" everyone who uses it normally.

I think it's a pretty common thing. Just look through the Fortune's company list: Abbey, Boots, Continental, ... Kingfisher, Lend Lease, Metro ... United, Visa, Wendy's ... All of them international corporations, and a few, like Visa, attempt to rewrite the dictionary to remove the common word.

So why shouldn't the scientoligists or whatever group the person rewriting 'bright' is, join in the fray? ;-)

Personally I think we should all take the words "slash" and "dot", and try to... oh, wait.

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[Bullet-Dodger]

The headline really irritates me as I was hoping the word Bright was gaining traction in the Do not believe in a deity sense.

Wow, I didn't know you could do that! I hereby define the word Hansom to mean nerdy and I expect everyone to start referring to me as such!

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[Anonymous Coward]

For a guy who wants to be called a "Bright", this is sure a poorly written post. The first sentence is awkwardly phrased, the second is difficult to read until you realize that there should be quotation marks around "intelligence in its many forms" (notice the lack of apostrohpe), and the third is just fucking incoherent once you get past the first third or so. Come on, if you want to be called "Bright", try acting bright rather than changing the meaning so it applies to what you already are with connotations of something you don't seem to be.

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[Otter]

Sure, but Kingfisher doesn't go around berating ornithologists for using the word "incorrectly".

Good call on the Scientologist speculation, though -- that language did sound oddly familiar.

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[crmartin]

If you know what the word actually means you can say "no, it means I don't believe in God." If you know the history of the question, you'll know that it doesn't apper to be amenable to proof. And if you've got the sense God gave six feet of manila rope, you'll see that attempting to suborn the word "bright" -- and thereby its antonyms, like "dull", "dim", and "stupid" -- isn't just looking for a descriptive term, but implicitly trying to start an argument.

Which isn't very bright at all, is it?

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[Peter Cooper]

You could, although I thought 'handsome' would have been a much more amusing word to use, Hansom. ;-)

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[Bullet-Dodger]

Dang, foiled by a misspelling that's also a word (Lousy freaking carriages).

Re:Reserve the word Bright

[Inthewire]

Loose the hounds differs from lose the hounds.

Don't use high school as a benchmark...

[Blrfl]

College is a whole different ballgame. Unless you take a few semesters of independent study on a single project, nothing you get assigned to do is going to run any longer than the end of the semester. That'll help with the short attention span.

Most of the people I went to high school with that had good grades fell on their faces in college because the coursework went beyond memorize-and-regurgitate and into critical thinking. A lot of people who couldn't do M&R very well and came out of high school with only "fair" grades (i.e., myself) did very well in college and life.

Go to college, find something interesting to engross yourself in, work hard and have some fun doing it and it'll turn out fine.

To the INTP...

[soloport]

My long lost twin! Welcome home!

But seriously, I got D's and F's all through gradeschool and highschool, except those classes which intrigued me -- chemistry, math, biology. When I got to college, to my surprise, I maintained a 4.0 average throughout. Go figure.

I think it has to do with self-direction. Usually, if I can chose the subject I want to focus on, I excel. Otherwise, if it's something that I have to learn, I can't focus enough mental energy to light a pen bulb.

I used to think the reason was related to travel. From birth, until I was college age, the average time I spent in one country was about three or four years. The longest I stayed in the same school was two years.

But now my oldest son (just entering college) has had the same issue with grades and he has lived in the same town his whole life. (So it's probably not environmental.)

Bottom line, you will probably LOVE college. Hang in there, bro!

Like me Pappy always used to say....Horse farm.

[Anonymous Coward]

And here I thought I was on the right career path.

Pursue a broad education

[Amigori]

I'm am about to finish my BBA and I would also consider myself extremely intelligent, when I want to be. I also have a broad range of interests, found high school to be a bore, and have friends who believe I am a true genius. I used to love computers and they took a large portion of my time and I even did them professionally for a while after high school. However, I did not go down the road to a CS or computer-related degree for various personal reasons.

So here is my advice. Try not to enroll in a program that has all 4 years planned out to the t for you. There will be nothing fun in that schedule. Setup your first year or two as liberal as you like. Take some English classes, even if numbers are your game, take an art class and a creative writing course to help your creativity. Those classes will indirectly help your coding skills by showing you how to develop creative solutions to complex problems. If you're not going into science, chances are you will need a science or two plus lab, so take something you are fascinated with or something you know nothing about. Take a PE class to help stay in shape because that urban myth, "The Freshman Fifteen" is certainly true; plus it will help introduce you into people outside of your field of study. Take a class that will force into discussions with women, as we know, this is /. and we aren't known for our wonderful social skills. Doing so will help your social skills, if you let yourself, plus you never know who you might meet. A few friends of mine who are in engineering school rarely see women in their classes, but my nursing friends see women everyday.

I guess my best advice is that when you get to school, go meet people, join some clubs, and for the love of your sanity, DO NOT sit behind your computer all day, every day. Socialize! It will be worth it in the long-run.

Amigori

finish what you start

[moojin]

I don't fit your description exactly, but the following two lines of your submission are similiar to my own experiences:

"I'm incredibly intense and concentrated, yet I often become bored of specific projects in a few months."

"Lots of people I meet think I should have a 4.0 easy, but I'm pretty far from it."

I have one piece of advice for you: "Finish what you start." Think about it for a while. At first, you may not know what I am talking about or you may not think it applies to you, but try to relate it to your life. If you do know what I mean, then try to a method to get yourself to "Finish what you start." If you still don't know what I mean, then sorry to have wasted your time.

Just my two cents...

Re:finish what you start

[DA-MAN]

I agree, I too was the same way. Find motivation where you can. I find it in all the cute bitches at school, without all the peepin I may have dropped out myself.

While I'm there I figure I might as well do somethin. . .

Focus on skills

[Anonymous Coward]

If you truly are an INTP, you have a difficult path ahead. Focus on developing the skills that you lack- the social skills and the follow through if you want to be successful. That includes following through with College because its a measure thats more important than personal genius to employers, and despite any genius potential you have, you have to sustain yourself. For you to find your genius, you'll need to have a degree to get a job and sustain your life while you persue your own dreams.

Don't start an internet company until you've mastered the skills you lack- and if you don't know what those skills are, then you're not ready and need to live more.

Also, realize that you are not unique- I am lucky to work with a group of people who have IQ's above 130. I never elevate myself above others because I think of myself as smart- maybe once developed intelligence was rare, but its not raw intelligence that will take you places. Develop the people skills, and the traits you'll need to manipulate others- like it or not, thats what will make you successful.

Bullshit

[wurp]

I felt the urge to respond the same way based on the way the post was written, but he *is* unique, just like everyone else. I don't mean that to be trite - everyone is truly unique.

You absolutely don't have to take the subjugated workaholic path, regardless of what some sour assholes may tell you. You can choose to worry less about having lots of disposable stuff and the latest style, and instead do the things you love that may pay less.

That said, if your attitude is "if I like it, I'll work hard and learn it well, and if I don't, I'll fail it and that's just me being myself", then I wouldn't even bother starting college with the intent of getting a degree. That won't cut it. You can find groups of people interested in the subjects you'll need in college and have engaging conversations with them, and learn the subjects well - but you have to take the initiative.

That's not to say you shouldn't go to college. But if you are proud of being non-traditional and OK with not doing well in traditional things, you will simply fail when you try to get recognized for doing traditional things.

That turned out more rambling than I intended. My point is, if you want a degree, change your attitude. If you're cool with yourself and just want to carve a life that you enjoy, set aside any materialistic hang ups you may have and live the life you choose.

What are we doing?

[MongooseCN]

I would like to hear from fellow /.ers that consider themselves unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' and how you have dealt with it. What are you doing now?

The same thing we do every night, try to take over the world.

Re:What are we doing?

[potat0man]

What's so funny?

Re:What are we doing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do a search for Pinky and the Brain.

Uniquely bright?

[seanmcelroy]

Natural brilliance takes you only so far. It's much less about what you know, and much more about what you can do.

Discipline is neccessary

[proteus318]

I had similar feelings when I was in high school. I was never very motivated because I lost interest in the mundane tasks of high school work very quickly. However, after spending two years in community college, my attitude towards education has changed. I've found college to be much more engaging. You have the freedom to explore your own interests and take classes with more interesting teachers and classmates with similar interests. Nonetheless, I think it is important to be disciplined. Sometimes you have to go through mundane work to get to the interesting stuff. Over the years as I got older, I have learned to be more disciplined and as a result, I have been able to transfer to a good research university, witch opened many doors of opprotunity. It also allowed for much more interesting work than while studying at community college and high school.

Don't listen to these goons...

[digistil]

You seem to have that magic. Don't listen to these dodgy fucks sayin' yer no more different than anyone else. The truth is that they are partially right...we're all unique. However, only an incredibly small portion of the world acts as such. I read most of the comments here and these persons seem to have been defeated. You're gonna feel like the world just can't understand you sometimes, but always remember that giving up that dream of being special and important is losing a battle in your life. And losing is for losers.

Half of intelligence is focus

[PIPBoy3000]

As the expression goes, half the battle is just showing up.

Unfortunately unfocused creative brilliance doesn't really do much good. Even artists need to focus on a project before creating something worthwhile.

I'd suggest you work on applying your mind to a specific topic - take classes that challenge and interest you. Pick up a hobby that you can stick with for more than a few weeks.

Remember, if you're really smart, you'll figure out how to get along with the rest of the world better than you currently do. Be patient. It takes awhile and the adjustments never seem to end.

lessons in life

[Anonymous Coward]

Number one: Nobody cares unless they benefit somehow. People think you're arrogant, or self-centered if you try to explain these feelings to them. No one can solve anything for you (not even for $125 an hour). Maybe you will hit a lowpoint and then see the world in a new perspective. Maybe you will find a project, and truly realize the passion you have for such work.

Alternatively, you may want to try regular exercise. It will keep you focused. Also, there is NO substitute for hardwork. Talent only gets you so far.

Finally: never, I mean never, take advice from an anonymous coward!

The world is an intelligence test

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are bored, you have not yet realized it is part of your job to figure out things to keep you interested. If you can, create. If you cannot yet create, at least learn. Authorities will do a poor job of supplying interesting things to do, unless you chance upon a genius-level teacher. Don't count on that; they are few, and far between, and have also the same job on their own behalf.

I will give you a hint: there are few things more satisfying than analyzing a situation, finding how to fix problems in it, and implementing your ideas. Go find problems to solve. That is the way adults have had to work since time out of mind. Also if you cannot find interesting areas to learn about and invent in in the subjects that exist or are implied by pre-graduate school, you are not trying hard enough. The world will not educate you. You have to educate yourself. Then if you are good enough you can educate others.

investigate TAG subject

[baomike]

You have all the "symptoms" correct. If you have not
done so already find a good library and read about
TAG education and probems.

If you are not for real you have at least read the
material and know the lingo.

As for the comments of "get over it" don't you wish
you could. Lord only knows the education system
tried "make you get over it".

If you are near a university that has an education
department see if they have a subdepartment for
TAG education. It is a subspecialty. They may have
their own collection of books etc..

For laughs try the books of Richard Feynman.
for serious
Look at the TAGFAM web site.

shut up

[Anonymous Coward]

really, shut up

Thank You!

[bobobobo]

That was exactly what I was thinking when I read the article blurb. Typical, "I read slashdot and use a computer therefore I'm a unique genius."

Assume you suck until working w/ the best

[potus98]

A future PHB? All the ingrediants are there: arrogance, cockiness, self-delusion... Kid, you're headed for middle-management!

These are the types of unrealistic self-loving kids you get when all you do is shower little Johnny with positive reinforcement no matter how much he sucks at [fill in sport, hobby, or interest here]. Chances are, this kid attended government schools. And now he's comparing himself to those teenagers? Maybe you really are special, though statistically speaking, I doubt it.

You think you're bright, sharp, and multi-talented? Anyone can have that impression when they compare themselves to their coincidental surroundings (family, local friends, etc.) Think you're good at computers? Go to Berkeley or someplace where you will really be challenged. Like rockets? Get a PhD and join NASA. Great swimmer? Then get on the Olympic team. Otherwise, you're just another schmuck.

Don't get sucked into comparing yourself against easy targets like teenage pals. Until you work with the best in a given field (or even the pretty good) you have NO idea how much you suck.

And if you're good at cooking, go win an Iron Chef tournament. Until then, reel in the ego before you get pounded.

Re:Assume you suck until working w/ the best

[Frobnicator]

[Go actually do something and prove yourself. Until then, reel in the ego before you get pounded.

I know it's cruel but each year around this time I find great perverse pleasure in smashing the egos of poor unsuspecting recent grads. Nothing too harsh, just when they come in with some ego-dripping report like "This is perfect" or "It works perfectly" or (my personal favorite) "I dare you to find a flaw in that!"

One of my favorites was the first peer review of a young intern, only about a hundred lines of source code but probably the biggest thing he'd ever written. I could see something either wrong (buffer overflows, magic numbers, etc.) or missing (no error checking, no comments, no assertions, ...) on nearly everything he did.

I know it's cruel, but to watch their over-exuberant pimply faces go from "Joy! I'm doing Important Things!" fall to "All the things I've been gloating over mean absolutely nothing" is oddly fun.

Of course, I follow the rule "reprove in private, praise in public" (with another team member present), I try to do it early, before they have much emotional investment in their work (usually after a few days of work), and always do ego rebuilding and team building afterword. Usually something like "But it's a good start, considering you just graduated. Let's sit down together and fix a few of those holes."

Am I alone in this perverse pleasure?

Re:Assume you suck until working w/ the best

[bluesnowmonkey]

That's... an "interesting" point of view. You can't be a great swimmer; you're either an Olympic swimmer or you suck. You can't be smart; you're either a NASA rocket scientist or an idiot.

If you'll pardon my asking such a pointed question, what happened to you to make you such a jerk?

Re:Assume you suck until working w/ the best

[iNetRunner]

Not a response directly to you potus.. *Clancy novels?*

People appear little bitter.. Our dreams have not come true and we are educating the next wave?

*PS I'm not sure why they air the Iron Chef tournaments in my are too.. (Off-hours and little channel but still..) Just because the commentators appear entertaining and in that Japanese are funny little people way?*

Re:Assume you suck until working w/ the best

[Fastolfe]

I don't think the original poster is trying to make such a polarization. Lots of smart kids appear to themselves to be geniuses compared to their high school peers. Take any pool of a few hundred kids and you're going to find a lot that excel (perhaps singularly) at certain things.

In the real world, you end up working with other people who enjoy and/or are educated in the same thing you thought you were really good at. In comparison, you suddenly aren't as good as you thought you were.

The original poster is suggesting that the self-described genius humble himself before someone else does it for him, which I think is reasonable advice for all self-appointed geniuses, even if it turns out your peers in the field really aren't up to your level in that one specific thing. Let your accomplishments speak for you. Nobody likes an egotistical ass.

Re:Assume you suck until working w/ the best

[Raven_Stark]

Don't compare yourself with others. It is better to figure out what you value and see how you measure up to your own values. It is too easy to look good compared to the average joe and it is dumb to feel less than bright for not being brighter than the top of the class at Berkeley. Just because eggshell white isn't the whitest paint doesn't make it not-white.

These people who said you were arrogant or conceited are possibly full of shit. I think you probably just appreciate beauty, even if it is within yourself. I suspect you look at your mind functioning and get the same feeling I get when listening to Mozart or experiencing a rocket launch, or watching my own mind work. It is a sort of light flying feeling drenched in joy. It is joy; go with it. Joy is what makes the pain of existence worth bearing.

People will hate you for having what they don't. If you feel joy, they will try to bring you down. If you have money they will steal it or try to get someone else (government) to steal if for them. The ones who really irk me, because they are crafty enough to easily earn their own toys, will talk you into feeling ashamed for having anything good--toys, pride, joy etc. Screw 'em.

That said, it would be a good idea to find some objective standards to see how you measure up to your values. I have known some very dull people who thought they were god's gift to academia. It is intensely embarrassing to watch someone make a fool of themselves with that error, can't imagine what it must be like to wake up and realize the truth for the first time. I doubt that's you, but don't take my word for it.

what not to do

[Anonymous Coward]

heh. I got the same first name as you, michael, and we have similarities between us. I had high education, but I dropped out. I could have made it but I didn't. Let me keep it short. Try to get a job that employs your creative skills. IT business is not rewarding, healthy, nor fulfilling unless you are making big bucks and/or you are a consultant. IT ppl get picked on and rarely will the dumb f*ckhead who is your boss be able to understand what actually happens in the department he is running. I saw it, did it...and now I am trying to keep IT as a hobby, but I like it so much its difficult. But trust me, you will not want to look back when you are older and think : why did I become sysadmin/webdesigner/programmer at this godforsaken company where people literally die of stress. I read somewhere once, "life is too short to spend in front of a keyboard". while I haven't succeeded to get away from the keyboard, it does remind me of the valuable time lost behind a computerscreen. build with your friends, go on a vacation, chase women, sing, dance, whatever the f*ck your heart tells you to do. Computers don't bring real happiness, they bring rational numbness. And I say this as a real geek.
So. I didn't keep it short afterall. The best of luck to you, you are not the only one. I don't consider myself a genius, I just have problems putting my talents to good use. And don't let any bullshit reactions here put you down. btw I'm still young, so I realized these things in time. You should too. Good luck....

Go to a college that won't just rubber-stamp you

[Kirijini]

If you think you're a non-traditional student, go to a non-traditional college. Like New College of Florida, which has essentially no required classes, so you don't have to take stupid, boring, and irrelevant to your interests classes; no grades, so you can't compare intelligence by GPA; only 650 students, so you can actually meet everyone on campus, and get to be friends with everyone with the same interests; the ability to create your own classes ("tutorials") and research projects ("Independant Study Project" or ISP); and you graduate based on a final thesis and baccalaurate exam - in other words, if you graduate, it means that you learned something and could demonstrate it in a 100 thesis and hour(s) long oral defense.

New College ain't the only school like this out there. Schools like this exist because some students don't do as well as they potentially can in a academically strict environment (like highschool and early college). Get more out of your education than a diploma. Spend four (or more!) years being yourself and growing from it.

wake up, kid

[Anonymous Coward]

1) nobody likes school.
2) everybody likes learning about stuff they're interested in.

if you want that 6-digit-paying job, tough it out, you baby, and go to school. just because you may like linux and math and whatnot and somebody else may like motorcycles or fashion doesn't make you any better.

what a retarded (and arrogant) submittal.

"Never applies himself..."

[Punk Walrus]

Yeah, and I bet you are very similar to many Slashdotters in this. I am exactly like you describe; easily bored in topics I hate, and intensely focused on stuff I love.

In school, I was always considered bright and gifted, but got a lot of comments that I never applied myself, or "reached potential." I despised that kind of comment, because how the hell would you know what my "potential" was? But I grew up in an abusive home, and to make a long and complex story short, by 18, I was living on my own.

This was my true test, and I did pretty good. I went from being essentially homeless to living with friends to getting a job, making friends with cool people, and while I can't say it's been an easy or the best life, I'd say for me it turned out pretty well. Looking back on it, college and I would have never gotten along. I have always hated structured and abstract learning (meaning "learn this way, and we won't tell you why, or how anything relates to the real world cases!"), and I got accused of daydreaming by some teachers and "asks too many irrelevant questions" by others. Guess which classes interested me?

My "self-education" led me to computers, and the drive to learn how things worked made me a better and better tech. Soon I worked at a call center, and kissed my retail days good-bye. Then I was doing QA. Then I was programming call centers. Then I was working an International help desk for a large ISP. Now I'm managing proactive QA Testing solutions that keep the Internet going for millions of people. Never had a college degree, but I have certifications and company awards on my walls. I love what I am doing.

I didn't gain anything by being an office backstabber, either. I found you gain more opportunities with friends, so I make friends wherever I go. And I have found that is the key to being successful in any career is the connections between people.

My advice to all young people of any career or life path is to make friends, be friendly and polite as much as you can, learn people's names, and never look down on anyone, no matter how "insignificant" or "a jerk" they seem. Learn from them. That may be "just the janitor" but he has keys to rooms, you know what I mean? Humans are social beings. They love attention. If you give them attention, they seek you out. And never forget those who have helped you in the past, either.

As the saying goes, "It's not what you know, but who you know."

Interesting

[Metasquares]

I could have gotten the first post, but I'll write a long-winded and hopefully helpful response instead of the one liner I'd need to keep it that way... and probably end up with a post that never gets read :)

I'm an INTJ (Myers-Briggs tested) and a junior in college (Major - Computer Science, Minor - Mathematics). I'm currently working as a math tutor and a software developer for the AQUAINT project, which is an ARDA-funded question and answer system. I'm also working with ontologies and the semantic web a lot as a side project until I'm able to devote more time to AQUAINT. I seem to share a lot of traits with you, so I'll try to give any advice I think particularly relevant to myself. Here's what I've thought of from my own transition:

• I do very well with the responsibility I'm expected to carry in college. I resent people who continue to treat me like a child, but fortunately, there aren't too many left. Even the crowd that traditionally likes to make fun of my sort accepts me in a college environment.
• My GPA has shot up drastically since highschool. I was barely maintaining a 3.0 in highschool; now I have a 3.96 (and only because of one anal professor). This could be, in part, because my highschool GPA was an underestimate, therefore I ended up in an easier college than I should have.
• If you catch a professor's attention and you are proficient at what you do, you may very well end up with a job. Unless you have some objection, you should probably take it, since it usually leads to something bigger and may very well start your career off with an advantage.
• I've found that it pays to specialize a bit in college, but not so much as to lose other potentially valuable skills. In particular, I tried some new things, and found out I was a great composer of music. I guess the lesson here is to try new things, but concentrate on what you're good at.
• To summarize, college is a time of ideals and opportunities. Make sure not to get bogged down in the rest of the reality of college, because the next 4 years will literally determine the course of a good part of your life. Make sure to get the most you can out of them.

As for what I would have done differently, I suppose I should have looked into residential life. I saw the dorms and immediately said "I am not living there", but I may have very well missed out on a good deal of what "college" is.

I would have taken a lighter course load had I known what I was getting into. I don't have much free time left after 18 credits of class and two part-time jobs on the side. I'd also have taken my friends' advice sooner and "loosened up" a bit more. I'm a very uptight person by nature, but there isn't really a reason for it; everyone seems a lot less judgemental in college.

Best of luck, and feel free to contact me if you want to share experiences or anything.

Re:Interesting

[back_pages]

I'm an INTJ and I double majored in CS and Mathematics like some others here. Lots of lame advice but the only good advice is "Get over yourself."

Like you I had a poor GPA in high school yet managed to do very well on the SATs and I killed the ACT. College was not really challenging, so I got two degrees instead of one. I slaughtered the GREs and could have gone to just about any graduate school in the nation. (Harvard sent me recruitment material all on their own; it was cute of them to try but I didn't even consider them for an instant because I hate the weather in the north.)

But my point is not to gloat.

I learned how to earn a salary in school and nothing more. In addition to breezing through school, I worked 50-65 hour weeks in the Tennessee summers doing 100% outdoor construction. You'll learn something about what to do with your life when you're drenched in sweat at 8:30am after loading 50 bags of cement onto a pickup truck. College won't teach you a damn thing about yourself. Until you sweat all day, go home when it's dark, literally have time to shit, shower, shave, sleep, and show up again at 7am sharp you simply can't really appreciate what an education means. And you can't really appreciate how infinitely un-fucking-special you are to this world.

My advice? If you're still sitting at home stroking yourself with how uniquely bright you are, you don't belong in college and you probably don't deserve to be there. "Get a job, sir," as Jeff Lebowski said. Not some sissy shit, either. Earn a dollar with your sweat and you'll know what it means to earn a dollar with your brains.

I suppose this might get called a flame but I mean every word of it and its intended to be beneficial of not glowing with positive emotions.

Re:Interesting

[Inthewire]

Pray for a job and wind up in a cotton field.
Pray for relief and wind up on a towboat.

There's always a new level of suck.

Turn to booze

[Anonymous Coward]

Give it up. I'm probably smarter than you. No matter what I do, I always end up number 1 or 2. Like is unfulfilling, though. Just get a high paying job like the rest of us and remain unchallenged. Get a cool sports car and a nice apartment then smile and nod when the dumbasses above you tell you what to do.

Also, I am smarter than you. Realize that. No matter how smart you think you are, there's always a thousand people smarter than you.

Please type not so fast

[pipingguy]

Duh, I moved here from Canada, and they think I am a little slow, eh?

Learn something useful

[Anonymous Coward]

"My attention span is practically unlimited when I am interested in a topic, and I get intensely interested in it."

Focus on the clitoris - you can find it in the dictionary or google it. Believe me, it is something you should learn about sooner than later.

Intelligence is not incompatible with "a life"

[xIcemanx]

(First ever response on Slashdot, I couldn't resist this)

What are you doing now? What did you do for education? How is your life now?

First, some background.

I'm a 15-year-old student living in Sayreville, NJ and I recently got a 1600 SAT score last year. I'm going to Rutgers University on a scholarship early and skipping senior year. I have already skipped first grade and entered school early.

I don't know why I'm "bright". I think that the biggest reason is probably because I loved reading when I was a child. I devoured dictionaries and encyclopedias.

I've found that the "bully-nerd" relationship does not exist in certain situations. When the "nerd" is extremely bright, bullies often respect him and don't beat him up. I've never been teased, never been harassed. I think Sayreville is an excellent community, but it's not just that.

Academically, I have managed to be alright, but nothing spectacular. Lots of people I meet think I should have a 4.0 easy, but I'm pretty far from it.

You're speaking my life. Our school is filled with "study freaks" that study frantically. I've never done so. I cannot understand how studying can help a person. I learn on my own if I don't understand the material, but I have no idea how someone who knows little manages to get good grades by studying. In addition, I'm afraid I'm rebellious. This upsets teachers, and I've consequently never been a teacher's pet.

I'd like to hear about everything from your education to your career to things you wish you had done differently

I plan on entering law school eventually. What I had done differently: very little. I've discovered I'm one of the rare people in the universe that is satisfied with his life. I've had fun on the way: I've had girlfriends; I have many great friends; I'm excellent at tennis, ping-pong, chess, and Risk; I don't study; and yet I excel academically. Any learning I do now is voluntary.

So what this mean? It is possible to be bright yet personable at the same time. I reject those who claim that that the two are incompatible. Far too often, people make no effort to be both, and hence deny the fact that it's possible. I'm a living example of this.

Re:Intelligence is not incompatible with "a life"

[hawkeyeMI]

I cannot understand how studying can help a person.

As someone who felt this way until hitting college physics and differential equations, let me tell you, this may change for you. Or it may not. Depends on the person, I suppose.

I had to force myself to learn to study when I started college (just after turning 17, so when I was probably a year or a little more older than you), and in fact didn't much realize it until the end of the second semester, I managed to swing first semester without studying much at all. Everyone hits a wall where things become too complicated to do it off the cuff. Everyone.

just do this

[Anonymous Coward]

say to yourself, if I had a BILLION dollars, what would I do with my life, since I don't have to do anything else.

Would you fix cars, become a farmer, or what?

Re:just do this

[fyngyrz]

People, mod this guy up until he's a five.

Seriously.

a few years forward

[jaiteend]

I've been out of college and academia for some time now and thought that I might add a few throughts to your quandry. I'm of the type that is interested in many subjects, both logical and illogical, as determined from the editor's contribution to your post. In the computing field, both dealing with troubleshooting various server issues and writing code to create new products, that I have found that I am capable to deal with both situations quite well; however, I am having problems with switching from one issue (troubleshooting) to the next (writing).

Perhaps I am alone, and perhaps I am not. I find moving from one type of task to another is quite difficult, if they do not have a common thought process behind them. I find that moving from a task such as writing some code to bringing a certain result to a change in a food recipe to be quite easy, yet I find from moving to writing to troubleshooting to be a difficult and a very frustrating practice.

Using something as the Myers-Briggs test to pigeon-hole someone into a role in life is rather distasteful in my mind. What I would suggest is that you examine your own life, to at least determine how you best deal with situations and work with other folks to deterimine how you, as a group, can work together to solve a common problem.

But, ya, it does suck to work with others you don't click with, be it in school or wage paying position.

Bright vs Average

[Anonymous Coward]

Average people work for other people
Bright people work for themselves

Once you graduate and land your first job you'll realize that all the time and money wasted in college could have been put to better use starting your own business.

Stanley Kubrick said...

[JB72]

"I think the big mistake in schools is trying to teach children anything, and by using fear as the basic motivation. Fear of getting failing grades, fear of not staying with your class, etc. Interest can produce learning on a scale compared to fear as a nuclear explosion to a firecracker."

My experience has been that if you're lucky enough to find something that you really love, intelligence becomes a byproduct of your passion, instead of the other way around.

Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, sounds like you're just full of yourself kid. The guys who're truely 'bright' never go around saying they are. From your postings it sounds like you have attention deficiency syndrome or you're just lazy. You lack the resolve to carry thru on anything. Which is a trait the 'majority' of people have.

Find out what you like, and do those things!

[RoufTop]

In a NYTimes opinion piece in March, David Brooks made an astute comment about what success in life is all about:

"Once you reach adulthood, the key to success will not be demonstrating teacher-pleasing competence across fields; it will be finding a few things you love, and then committing yourself passionately to them."

It really is true. No matter what you decide to do, do them with aplomb, whether it's music, cooking, computers, whatever. But most of all, don't force yourself to fit into the boxes the world makes for you. There's money in every field; follow your passions first, stick with them, and be open to opportunities, and you'll find the money.

You may enjoy the article as well while you're en route to college. I found a copy here (old Times content is only available for $)

http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~rtan/articles/success. html

I know that feeling

[wwahammy]

I know what you're going through. Not particularly motivated to do "normal" things or school work yet you know that you're pretty smart (I don't say it, everyone I went to high school did) I've found politics to be my focus but that's just personal preference I think.

Just find something and ignore the bullshit that people tell you. Everyone has a gift and its clear that you realize you have one, which doesn't make you egotistical. Just find a way to make a difference and satisfaction will just come along with the ride.

Go To School

[codefool]

I'm pretty much like you are. I have an IQ of 139, and I didn't find college very interesting and the computer boom hit, so I went into it. Now, I'm 43 in a field that's tanking and will continue to tank for the next four- or five-years, I'm deep in debt from being out of work for two years, I work in a job I hate and it sucks, and I have no degree to fall back on.

Right now, degreed CS dudes are a dime a dozen. So I'm going back to business school, and when I get out in 2008, hopefully I'll be in a position to put 30 years of CS experience coupled with a BS in entrepreneurship might influence a bank to lend me some money and start my own business, or convince someone that I'm qualified to run theirs.

The skinny is that unless you're one of the elite-elite (as opposed to 1337, of course), that is, the kind of elite where the NSA comes and gets you and puts you in a dungeon because your so elite, you will need to interface with the rest of the world. Interfacing with the rest of the world means putting up with all kinds of bullshit like bills, taxes, asshole cops, politicians, and the like. And you spend 90% of your time doing what you don't want to do in order to spend the other 10% doing exactly what you want. This ratio can drop to something like 40/60 if you happen to like your job (and mowing the lawn).

So, regardless of how much it sucks, finish college before going to the next step. It doesn't matter how hard the major is, a good deal of the time it will be boring.

My experiences

[Inf0phreak]

I never had any challenge whatsoever in math, physics or chemistry all the way up to and including $roughly_high_school_equivalent (=$rhse).

The best example of this probably that back in $rhse I developed the (admittedly very bad) habit of routinely writing weekly math assignments in the class before or in the class where it was to be handed in. Honestly, I have had absolutely no before university.

And studying for math and physics exams was of course something that was done in a couple of hours in bed while listening to music on the radio. It was more "keeping up appearances" than anything else.

Now, I struggle with breaking that habit, and man is it hard. 10 years or so of in-grown habits are really hard to shake off. Naturally this complete lack of work ethics didn't go well with the much increased requirements that the university put on me, and thus my grades (which were straigh A's in math) plummeted. I know what I could have done differently, but it doesn't change that I am pretty bitter that I never really got to do anything with my talents in the first 13 years that I went to school.

Just goes to prove that the Danish school system is designed to make every child equally stupid I guess.

Re:My experiences

[Inf0phreak]

Eh... oops.
s/before university/challenges before university/

Serves me right for not proofreading well enough.

College

[Hard_Code]

College is like being a soldier. Being a great fighter as not as important as being able to be persistent and march in bad weather with no rations while being shot at, for long periods of time. Prepare yourself for a lot of mediocrity. Realize that a lot of people arrive at college still not knowing what the fuck they are interested in, and you will pay for that by long drawn out boring classes. The longer they keep you in school the more money they make.

I can't really give you much advice on staying in because I dropped out (and damn glad too, I am far ahead of where I would have been had I stayed in) but I can only say, be very very sensitive to when you are being burnt out, and to try to desperately latch on to professors, teachers and curriculum which is interesting and exciting. Fuck the rules and prereqs - talk to the dean if you have to. Otherwise you will get burnt out as it is wasting your time and decide to drop out.

Motivation

[Diabolus777]

You seem to want people to notice you. Probably important people. In order to get a freebie.
You're not beign bright then, you're just beign lazy.

Motivation is the key to success.

Even people that don't have innate talent can surpass a "natural" in every field. He will work harder, 10-100 times harder than the natural, but his own motivation drives him forward, past the natural. (apply this to sports, arts, life in general).

The only motivation you need is self-motivation. Don't think anyone will hand you anything on a silver platter because you're (or think you are) bright. If you really are bright, it just means you will need to put in less effort than the average to obtain similar or best results.

This can be your downturn if it makes you lazy. And it can, and it will.

Start moving forward, any field will do because you can pretty much succeed in anything, once you get some momentum, you'll see that you make it faster than others. The secret is just to start and stop spelunking your bellybutton.

less than 200 word submission

[e**(i pi)-1]

Running

ispell -c|sort -bfdiu

over the post counts 155 words in that submission. That is well under 200 words ...

"If money is all you love

[freejung]

then that's what you will receive."

And you should just go be a lawyer and get it over with. They make great money, hardly work at all, and all it takes is a willingness to be totally evil.

Re:"If money is all you love

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately for this guy, you also have to be smart in a conventional sense.

Re:"If money is all you love

[nomadic]

make great money

Some do well. Many, especially in the public sector, make very little.

hardly work at all

That is quite possibly the most incorrect statement I've ever seen on slashdot. In law 80 hour work weeks are common. 90 hour work weeks aren't unheard of.

and all it takes is a willingness to be totally evil.

Speaking from personal experience? Of course not. Just the fashionable thing to say.

Re:"If money is all you love

[tverbeek]

[lawyers] make great money, hardly work at all, and all it takes is a willingness to be totally evil.

I guess someone neglected to point that "hardly work at all" part out to the workaholic who provided my mother with the financial and moral support to raise me and my sisters, or to the guy who lives with my sister, niece, and nephew on weekends. And although I have plenty of differences of opinion with Dad, and have developed some rather different values from his, "evil" is one adjective I would never apply to him.

realize this

[kardar]

many people feel that in order for a change to happen, or that in order for something to take place, that it has to be difficult (i.e. - no pain no gain). This is what happens when you have a male-dominated society for thousands of years.

There are also many people who feel that in order for something to take place, it does not necessarily have to be difficult, in other words, that you can have gain without pain. This is true, although it won't win you any popularity awards.

The important part is the gain. Action, accomplishment - that's the important thing.

My suggestion would be to focus on the English language - to get really good at English - think of it like a programming language to program reality. If you know good English, all other things are then possible. And English is fun, too, like writing things on Slashdot - it can be relaxing, and if you "get into it", you can write things for hours and hours and hours. Writing for fun is just a wonderful way to relieve stress and discover new ideas. It also keeps you thinking about things even when you are walking down the street, for instance.

The Tao of Physics is another interesting book, althought lots of folks don't like the book. I read the book, and it's highly recommended. I don't think that it will teach you physics, but it will sort of get you up to speed on how to not get lost in all of the "FUD" that some of these people like to put out about life being anything less than something completely amazing.

my 2 cents

[Chris Deegan]

As one who fuxxed school, never went to uni and then worked his way from kitchenhand to nightclub glassy to sound engineer to av engineer to control system programmer and system design engineer, I can offer this little piece of advice - your life is only limited by your desire and your willingness to try new things and explore.

I have had a great time doing silly things - girls, druqz, clubz n rock'n'roll. I now have a cool job and enough money to support my geekness. I never spent a cent on uni (almost everyone else here I know that went to uni is now paying horrible HECS fees and is getting paid a lot less than what they are worth.

I am no brainiac but I see that the world is pretty well...as we say in oz, rooted. IMHO if your interests and 'brainz' extend much beyond linux/php/pr0n/etc and into fundamental stuff like logic/descartes/quantum physics/astrophysics/'lectronics/philosophy/pr0n/e tc you will find this world (for the most part) to be a frustrating world of people too eager to follow the leader and not stand on the shouders of those that have gone before...However what makes life worthwhile are those fleeting flashes of genius you will see when you read that post on slashdot, read that comment in the source code, hear that speech, hear that song or just generally bear witness to the occassional brilliance of those other planet dwellers.

from another INTP

[AMystery]

As a fellow INTP you'd think I would have some advice, but I don't. I basically drifted through college, I found some things I liked, but nothing that really created a fire. got a triple major but no real direction. Sure, I can discuss philosophy with anyone, but where does that leave me besides becoming a teacher? I like computers, so I went into the computer field, but I haven't found it challenging, just something to pay the bills.

I am still looking for that passion in my life. I wish you luck at finding it. Listen to some of these other people who say to explore and try everything. That is good advice regardless. And if you can think of a better thing to do with a philosophy degree than debate with Jehovah's witnesses, I'd like to hear it.

the good news is...

[louden obscure]

if you are indeed ADD or ADHD (which it sounds like, but IANAMD) you won't develop any cocaine related dependencies (my anecdotal experience, YMMV) cuz why would you buy expensive "street" drugs just to feel normal? anyway, you have my $00.02.

Heh.

[ivern76]

My only advice would be to stop telling people you're "uniquely bright." It doesn't go over well. That kind of thinking is something you just keep to yourself...instead, demonstrate your intelligence through action. If you're interested in programming, I'd suggest picking a pet project and getting your hack on.

Re:Heh.

[chickenwing]

True, when you are talking to other engineers or technical people, you can turn the ego off. But be sure to turn it back on if you are talking to someone wearing a tie, or you are at a job interview.

A lot of business people will regard you with suspicion if you are not overly confident about yourself. Although I prefer to undersell and overdeliver, sometimes nobody will give you the chance to do anything if you can't sell yourself at all.

I guess I will throw in my two cents while I'm at it...

I was much like you in many ways and it took me two years of college to get over it. This dicipline thing people are talking about here is a really good thing, but its hard to turn on overnight when you haven't had to use it before. You might even fuck up a few times before you really get the hang of it.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this, but the thing that really helped me become a diciplined student was a part-time job on campus. If you are just hanging out with your friends in the dorm all day, time loses its meaning and it is easy to never study. Work helps give you a framework to budget your time.

Being and Doing are two separate things

[DanielMarkham]

You say you're smart, but offer little to back it up except for wide-ranging tastes.

I would submit to you that there is a difference between a deep interest (reading up on linux or photography, taking some pictures or running a small darkroom) and honing a deep skill.

Smart people are good at all sorts of things. And people who are easily fascinated can find all sorts of neat stuff to do and play with.

If you want to succeed at anything, you're going to have to do two things: immerse yourself and surrender to your passion, and be able to do things you do not want to do. This is the balance between doing things society requires of you (socialization), and following your calling, your dreams.

Since you seem to be very good at getting slightly interested in things, I would suggest taking some time in your life to work on your socialization skills. Join the military if you have the guts, go to college or join the peace corps if you favor that. Whatever you choose, place yourself in a position where you must make a commitment and stick to it. Learn to do what others tell you to do, without question.

Then, and only then, sample around. Live and taste life -- but do so agressively, with someone in charge of your life (you). Not as a spectator, but as a participant in life. If you try hard enough, you'll find your calling. But it's up to you to prepare yourself so that when you do you'll be ready.

I used to be like that, now im normalizing

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to be like that, and before that, everyone thought I was autistic, now im just mildly anti-social...
I could've been a child prodigy programmer...but, every childs gotta grow up so you've already missed that chance
My advice is pick up programming, or some other incredibly complex yet simple hobby, spend your spare time on it, spend the rest of your time on having a life and do good at school...
I didn't work at school until 5th form(equiv to the third last year of high school), and didn't do homework until now in 7th form(last year of high)

You may have a gift, but all its really good for is avoiding unnecessary work and knowing what you need to do to achieve...you still need to follow the same path as everyone else did

One thing I hope you discover

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that there are many many people way smarter than yourself. If you haven't discovered that yet, then you should go to a good college. If you don't discover it in college, then find a challenging job. If you don't find it at work, then get a new job or move somewhere where there are a lot of smart people (for example silicon valley). My point is that until you are humbled by others brilliance in a variety of ways, then you're probably going to continue to behave like a concieted jackass, which is not going to do yourself any good, and you're going to continue to annoy others like you've already annoyed us.

My union card says...

[SlashSim]

My union card says 'skilled labourer'.

Give me a jackhammer and a shovel and tell me to dig up that alley until I find a buried telephone line and I'll be happy all day.

I've been paid to write code, I'd rather do it just for fun.
Follow the other posters advice, find something you like and do it. When it gets dull, do something else.

The true bright ones...

[neuroneck]

are the ones who say they are not. They take their intelligence and creativity for granted. To them, they do not understand why everyone else cannot do what they do.

Did I submit this article?

[oneishy]

Wow, that sounds like me :o)

Seriously though, my choice quote here would be from a friend who says "You have got to be the smartest person I know, who still gets crappy grades in school!" ... and yes it was a compliment!

Aside from the 40hrs/wk job programming while I'm going to college, I find alot of enjoyment doing technical things (read:sound,lights, network support, etc) for my church. In fact, I just got back from a retreat earlier today where I ran sound and powerpoint =) I also put my skills to work helping friends (and anyone who will pay) out with the random computer problems that come up.

To specifically answer the question of how to deal with school, I will say this : I have found many classes that I just did not want to do, and have repeated some more than once. In general online classes, and and some lecture classes which have no regular work (read: case studies, non-related term paper) are the hardest for me. I would recomend any accelerated classes you can get (1 week classes ie:9a-5pm M-F are the best!). The 7weeks classes are good to because you spend less time reviewing and more time learning. Lab classes are always a plus, and for some booring classes I find it helps to just surf the web on my laptop or do homework in class, and just soak in the lecture in the background.

Thats what works for me... hope it helps!

Asperger's Syndrome

[crmartin]

You might want to look into Asperger's Syndrome. Hard to say from your note, but the proportionof Asperger's (a/k/a the "Geek Syndrome") in the /. readership has to be pretty high.

Re:Asperger's Syndrome

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh I resemble that remark !

I have to agree I believe That I have Aspergers and
so doe's one of my three kids , I suspect it's a
little more common than most people think .

My only advise is to stay away from drugs and
alcohol as it can be an easy way to expand your
horizons but it can be a costly road , started doing
chemical drugs at grade 8 and drank and did drugs
for years while I should have been getting an
education , been clean and sober since 19 but have
had a lot more problems in life than I needed to!

Re:Asperger's Syndrome

[thepr0fess0r]

No way, aspergers is a much more debilitating disorder than what he's described.

Re:Asperger's Syndrome

[crmartin]

Ach, I zee, Profezzor -- zee diagnoziss you haff made on zee bazis of one paragraph? Unglaublich.

Literally.

Re:Asperger's Syndrome

[thepr0fess0r]

No, simply noting that saying "maybe you have asperger's syndrome" is a bit like saying "maybe you have down syndrome" Asperger's syndrome is a social disorder, kin to autism, and is very debilitating socially, which is certainly not what was described. And though it's possible, I maintain, "no way."

Re:Asperger's Syndrome

[crmartin]

Nice misquote, too, since what I said was that he should look into Asperger's, rather than delivering a definite diagnosis. He may not have Asperger's; he may be having similar problems and be sub-clinical; hell, maybe it wouldn't give him any insight at all.

Re:Asperger's Syndrome

[thepr0fess0r]

Yeah, well your mother is a bitch.

As I see it, you have two choices

[Canthros]

1. You can knuckle down, work your way through college, get a degree, and see what doors open up to you.
2. You can not.

Bear in mind, choice number two really isn't likely to be a bed of roses unless you're really keen on the idea of low-paying job, long, long hours and a certain lack of respect from others.

What is this, the McGuffey Reader?

[Squeamish Ossifrage]

Ok, to some extent this is true - sometimes you have to work hard on things you don't enjoy. But it's not something to aspire to!

The protestant work ethic is highly overrated: Being a dutiful methodical drudge is not a morally exalted outcome. I do not believe that you can significantly change who you are, nor that it would be a good thing, even if you could. You could try to shoe-horn yourself into a life which rewards abilities you haven't got and wastes the ones you have. But that won't make you happy, and you probably won't be very good at it. Much, much better to look around for chances to take advantage of who you are, rather than fighting against it.

None of this is to say that you shouldn't learn discipline, study skills, time management, and all that sensible responsibility stuff. I haven't (personally) found a way to get by without it, and being OK at the stuff that doesn't come naturally helps me be in a position to do the stuff that does. But for God's sake, don't just be a hard-working drone doing a mediocre job of living a life that's better suited for someone else. If you don't feel like you're playing to your strengths at least a fair portion of the time, you're doing the wrong thing. It's OK to change majors, schools, jobs, careers or lifestyles as often as necessary to find one which works.

(Only have a little common sense - if you're think you might want to change your employment situation, don't take on major financial responsibilities. You have fewer options when you have car/house/alimony payments to make. Or so they tell me.)

How I dealt with it

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm an INTJ. How did I deal with it? I didn't. Not during highschool anyway. I went through and got a 4.0 overall gpa and became valedictorian. But this didn't make me very happy, probably because I had sacrificed my social life/skills in the process. As an undergraduate I couldn't convince a girl to be my girlfriend to save my life. Probably because I am slightly eccentric, or a workaholic, or have no social skills, or some combination thereof. So during college I dealt with it ... by getting depressed. Really depressed. Clinically depressed. I was starting to mention the idea of killing myself to various friends and some of them suggested I get some help. I've been on Zoloft for a couple of years now, and I'm doing better, but I do have my bad moments, especially when I get tired. Anyway, you may find you are unusually bright in some subjects and really dumb in others. I hope you find something you are good at and like to do like I have. For me it was math. It takes my mind off of what I perceive as a very hard world to live in. You will undoubtly be picked on for having above-average intelligence. Keep in mind that having high intelligence really is abnormal by definition, so various elements of society will try to make you feel bad about it. Grades really don't mean much besides that you put in the effort. If you don't get good grades it definitely doesn't mean you are dumb (in your situation). It probably just means you are bored.

Anyway, I hope you find some peace like I did. Oh, and one more thing: try very hard to make emotional connections with people. It may stop you from "losing it" :-)

-anon

Go to work..

[Anonymous Coward]

I had the same type of attitude toward school. I went to about 2 years of college, and decided that it wasn't my thing. I was too busy working on other projects, and wasn't spending enough of my time on school. I stopped going to college, and went and got myself a great job with all of my skills as a sysadmin. After a year or so the company I was working for sent me back to school, and paid for my tuition to boot.

I didn't want to look back at my life and tell people that I'd only been through a couple of years of college. Believe it or not, it does make a difference out there in the real world in a lot (but not all) of cases.

After taking those couple of years off, I found that I had a lot more tolerance for school. Where I was an average 3.0 student before, I became a straight 4.0 student through the rest of my degree. Sometimes it just takes a bit of maturity to help learn how to hold that attention span, and push you to make that extra effort to make everything you do be the very best you can make it.

My advice: go to school, work your ass off in every single class no matter how un-interesting you might think it is. Don't be one of those students joining in the "this class is too hard" chorus. Prove them wrong by showing how "gifted" and bright you really are.

If you're up to it, find a flexible job, and work full time, and go to school full time. That way you'll get the best of both worlds. That's what I did, and it has opened a whole new world of opportunities to me.

Best of luck!

You sound fairly normal...

[globalar]

...just not fixated on mimicking everyone else.

You would be surprised how much people change themselves and force themselves to conform to be accepted. They stop learning and keep going to school; they stop exploring and settle down on what they are comfortable with; they simplify their lives and are dull to challenges. Also, you sound like you're not really sure where you are going and what you want. Don't worry, most of us are the same way. You're just looking at yourself and wondering how you fit in. Everyone does that. Most people just conform to what they see around them - it seems easier, safer, and the clear path.

It's good to see you're not blindly following that path.

Whoa... sounds familiar!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in pretty much the same position!

I don't think I'll end up doing a technical career, in fact, I'm sure of it, but I do enjoy using tech to my advantage, and even some light programing sometimes.

I'm currently in my second/third (depending how you count due to APs) year of university, and still really not sure what I'm going to do.

I started off trying to do a chemistry degree... turns out I'm _really_ bad at math, and chem labs make me really nervous and jumpy... both really bad traits for a potential chemist. So, I knock that one off the list.

I work at a charity doing IT stuff, some php dev and some internal db stuff, graphic design stuff, and some event planning stuff.

Next year, I'm hoping to continue with a joint business/arts degree... likely in marketing/history. Though I'm really not sure how that'll work out... and I'm sure they'll be some changes along the way.

/.er from peru

[zettai]

It can be certain much of that here is said. In my case I have had a similar university development to which you/they refer the previous comments. And recently now, lacking one year to finish the career. I realize that it is necessary to distinguish among what you like to do and of what you would like to live. When you realize this, rot to also realize that you can make both. For example, I study clinical psychology but I always like computers. For that reason I carry out works that lean toward simulations in neurons, I can practice this way codes and logical and not to leave my "area." I also like to read and to converse and to paint, that's why my library is big in pdfs, I respond to this post and of while in while paint here with my colors to the side. What I mean, is that yes. you can make what you want, don't wait the "success" determined by the other ones in that everything you make, but at least you will feel that these being faithful to yourself. good luck.

Ah, for a chance to go back and warn myself...

[Artifex]

If you're bright but you're not making As, I'm going to assume it's because you're not doing your homework, and that you're skating by on tests. Especially if you're coming up through the public schools, here.

Look. You'd better decide now that you're willing to study and do all the work, even for those crummy basic courses you either are not interested in or just know you know all about.

Take it from someone who managed to blow his National Merit Scholarship: don't play; study!!! Don't assume you're going to get the basic stuff easy, and that you don't have to spend time on things - there really will be stuff that can trip you up, and you have to have good study habits. If you're having trouble getting motivated for a particular class, join a study team or something. You've probably heard this a million times (I did but ignored it), but don't let yourself get distracted. You have plenty of time to play after the homework is done, and if you don't, remember that you have vacations, and this is your job, and you're paying for the privilege, even if you're on full scholarship (like I was).

Trust me, you don't want to find yourself in a situation where you have to recover from some bad grades in your first year. The consequences of a low GPA in high school are nothing compared to what's going to happen if you get bad grades in college, at least if you intend to go on to graduate school, get teaching certification, or something similar.

Don't be afraid to change majors if you discover you don't love a subject as much as you thought you did in the beginning, but while you are enrolled in a subject, give it your best and chalk it up to experience after. There will not be a nice, understanding professor who will step in and say, oh, I know you're capable, I'll give you the 4.0 anyway, even though you stopped participating... and if there is, he or she is doing you a disservice.

Don't even enroll until you're actually ready to focus and do your homework and ask questions in class and ask for help when you stop understanding. It's not going to be always simple. It's not going to be always fun. And if you think you can get by slacking off like before, you have an expensive and painful lesson ahead, that really will ripple through much of your future life.

(oh, and don't room with that guy you'll meet in second semester who seems really bright but has the alcohol problem... etc.)

Re:Ah, for a chance to go back and warn myself...

[Grimster]

Jesus christ was this posted by me in my sleep?

I was a National Merit Finalist, scholarships everywhere, jumped right into college taking honors courses and pulled a 2.6 my first semester, 2.9 the second, I was woefully unprepared for the college curriculum and lost my scholarship after the first year. Had to move back home, loans out the ass, dropped out my junior year. I'm doing ok now but I can only wonder where I'd be had I finished school instead.

My sweet sig

[garyok]

I'd mod you up myself for that.

Although I'd make the case that one tells you to get involved and the other tells you how to suceed when you get involved.

OK, OK, I know - bullshit rationalisation. So, the next useful tip is: be a better liar.

Re:My sweet sig

[SporkLand]

"Try to be clever and and 'beat' people in arguments and you'll only piss people off." ...

"Although I'd make the case that one tells you to get involved and the other tells you how to suceed when you get involved."

So what did he do to you, why are you trying to piss him off?

Re:My sweet sig

[garyok]

This is more of a dialectic than a debate, I think. What do you think?

A few words of advice from someone who understands

[ahriman]

Not to self obsessed, but I can relate to everything you said and to other people's comments. And even to the linked INTP piece amusingly enough. I am now 21 having screwed about after school and on my 3rd (and final) attempt at finishing my A-Levels and entering University (UK system).

I dropped out a couple of times (having completed half the course with moderate success) due to a complete lack of interest, though I have to say that the alternatives are even more dull than you think education is right now; I worked in a factory pressing metal into pieces used to assemble climbing frames and suchlike for a few months. The intense hatred I felt for everyone working in that factory still makes me insane thinking about it 2 years later. Working all day doing an exhausting job with people so far beneath you in intellectual terms is really infuriating. It's not healthy to find that you can muster that much hatred so I strongly advise against opting for it.

Although I find the work I'm back doing now rather easy I find it very hard to concentrate enough to achieve 'A' grades. For some strange reason I found myself spending today implementing a filesystem with PHP/MySQL just as a small but slightly interesting challenge, rather than spending the day working for the exam I have on monday that could easily dictate my future. Despite the object being relatively pointless and easily written some other time I just couldn't get together the motivation to revise.

It's slightly comforting to find that there are plenty of others like me out there. I really can't wait to read the majority of Slashdot comments either passing you off as somebody who dreams of genius, or merely displaying their annoyance that they have to work damn hard to achieve most of what you can do very easily (should you desire - always the awkward part!). I receive that kind of attention on occaision and have come to find it more amusing than anything - I hope you find it similarly invigourating!

So my advise is this: Stick with education, at least you're not surrounded by so many idiots that way.

Incidentally I'm quite interested in talking to people who relate to either the original post, or this one. I'm sure you can figure out how to contact me should you wish to.

Live a life, not a goal

[Anonymous Coward]

A common misconception right now is that college is "the only route to success", and it's causing a lot of disruption with people our general age (18 to 30). If you aren't doing well in school but find yourself capable of long periods of intensive study when a subject interests you, go do it. Nobody is going to guarantee you a fairytale life by cutting your own path; it's hard work to be successful at something, assuming you find that one perfect job that uses your talents in a way that will bring you joy.

I was called "clever" or "bright" for years, and hated every second of it. The people who do well in school, the "bright" people, are hard workers who can put up with a lot of beaurocratic bullshit, and can suck up people who epitomize the philosophy of "if you can't do, teach". I did horribly in school from middle school on, and it's a shame you and I couldn't just suck it up and take the asininity of the institutions we attended. But hey, you can't win em all.

I currently work construction. I'm going to a community college for an associate's degree in network administration and security. I like construction better as a vocation, but I love computers. I'll probably end up working at some non-profit trying to save whales :P but I'm leading an eventful life, if not a "successful" one as measured by what you watch on tv and read in periodicals.

Live a life. Don't fret about advancement and success unless you believe it's your goal to grow up, marry, mate, raise young, and die. There's a lot more that humans can do than move along like lemmings. Think you're unique? Or even uncommon? Go show everyone by leading an uncommon life.

Asperger's syndrome

[Anonymous Coward]

holy shit! I never knew there was such a thing as Asperger's syndrome.

The scary thing is that most everything I've read on it so far describes me :o

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/5/17/172914/5 76

Push the Rules and Design Your Own World

[macguys]

When I was in college, I couldn't find a program that met my interests so I invented my own. I was lucky to find a supportive dean who also didn't like being put into boxes.

In my professional life, I've used my wide interests as a asset and not a liability. I show up at work as a "generalist" with certain specific skills. My employers/clients get usually get more than they expected out of the relationship.

Career hint: Always give them a little more than they expected.

While I've worked as a employee, (and may again, given the right opportunity) I've found that being a consultant allows me to move from project to project and avoid being bored.

The main thing is to believe in yourself, have as much fun as you can, treat people fairly, and have a great ride.

To sum up

[Glycerine]

Well to sum up both the negative and positive replies... Go out and do something. Don't wait for/expect it to come to you. Don't throw things on excuses. Strive to do all things the best you can while searching for what you want to do in life. If you find it, hold on and do it the best you can. If not, keep looking. ... "Slide!"

Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Buckle down and get ready to study. Engineering college at any half decent school is not easy and there are PLENTY of bright kids just like you and many more brighter. You are nothing special; get over yourself and get to work or you WILL fail out.

OK

[gonerill]

I would like some tips, suggestions, and experience in living with an extra degree of intensity, depth, and general intelligence.

1. You may be unique, but you are not uniquely bright. Bear in mind that just because you are smart doesn't mean that everyone else is stupid. It is amazing how many people make this mistake.

I love learning, yet I never have found school enjoyable. I'm incredibly intense and concentrated

Well College should be better, then. However,

, yet I often become bored of specific projects in a few months.

2. Bear in mind that just because you are initially bored by something doesn't mean it isn't worth learning. This is true of College courses: You may find afterwards that it was worthwhile and not what you expected. That is why it's called "an Education."

My attention span is practically unlimited when I am interested in a topic, and I get intensely interested in it.

3. Yet you say you also get bored easily after a few months. Well, that's OK: keep an eye out for something that doesn't wear off. The advice of Stanford's John Perry is as good as any: At college take one third of your units learning something that will pay your wages afterwards; one third fulfilling requirements to the university; and one third for yourself, to find out who you are. It will be much more expensive to have a nervous breakdown in your '50s than to find out who you are while you're in college."

I'm just coming up on entering college, so most of my life is ahead of me.

4. Exactly. So don't panic yet. And don't drop out, for Christ sake. You're guaranteeing yourself a 35% cut in future earnings.

This may sound crazy but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Join the Service! No matter which branch you choose (I chose the Infantry - got out in '89) you'll get the focus needed to get through College (not to mention tax free money for shool after you get out). To top it off the Military has very high speed IT training....

Travel

[Wyatt Earp]

Myself, I wish I'd travelled more.

That and not had cancer relapse so that I could have gone into the Army.

Just different

[rugwuk]

I know what you mean, and the ones who tell you to get over yourself are just jealous. I am surprised that you chose Slashdot as a place to go with this question, but hey they're an diverse (?) bunch so what the hell, there are far better places to go check in with your ego though. Try not to make too big a deal about it and get on with life and you'll have fun at whatever you do and be really good at it wihtout blinking. This normally comes with good remuneration too, but as the other guy said that ain't the bee all and end all. Someone once told me I ran on duracell, so I think I know what you mean about endless powers on cencentration. Save your brains for things that are worthwhile though the rest just clogs up your spare capacity. Oh by the way it's called being a polymath, but they generally have PhD's in four subjects to back it up. I say phooey. I left my PhD after four years cos I was broke, published two papers nevertheless and invented a new algorithm or two along the way. Best decision I ever made! I paid off my debts in 6 months cos I applied my brain to the problem. Now I have a family, so am in debt again but as I said money ain't everything. The best kicks are the natural highs which is why magic mushrooms and peyote are so much better than acid or E. Enjoy it while it lasts, you never know it could run out.

Get your degree

[Salo2112]

I hated school so much I refused to go to college out of HS. I worked through a string of low-paying "shit" jobs. Funny thing, I was usually much smarter that the people in charge, but I was making less than they were and they were telling me what to do. They had degrees,

One day, I got lucky and got a job that paid quite well - an industrial manufacturing job. My first day on the job, an old man walked up to me, asked me how old I was and then told me to look good and hard at him. He was old, worn out and broken down - a life of manual labor had taken quite a toll on him. It was his last day there - he was retiring. The old man told me not to let what happened to him happen to me.

That night, I applied to a local community college.

It took 10 years to get my bachelor's degree (night school and working a full time job to pay for it). I missed out on a lot of "fun." I wasted a lot of time I can never get back.

Suck it up, and get the degree.

If your so damn smart....

[Anonymous Coward]

....why do you refer to the culinary arts as cookery?

Re:If your so damn smart....

[shurakai]

I'm not so sure that he described himself as smart... just above average.

Find your passion

[Chatmag]

When you come across something that you would rather do than eat, sleep, shower, fu...wait, skip that one, then go for it. It's been said many times, "find a job you like and you won't work another day" is pretty much true. You've got to find the one thing (Ok, so I sound like Curly from City Slickers, but he was right) that excites you more than anything else.

Whatever!

[Anonymous Coward]

You have got to be kidding me!!! "You have to be stupid or entirely ignorant to be a successful person in this society crafted by charlatans and intellectual inferiors." I mean come on! What kind of sick demented delusional fantasies lead to this warped mentality. The successful person is someone who is willing to put 110% into everything they do. It sounds to me that all of you who are whining about failing at one thing or another are really just lazy and are trying to cover it up by formulating some grand excuse. You are so mistaken if you believe even for a second that the prominent citizens of our society achieved their positions by sitting around idly waiting for someone to hand them their due just because they are intelligent. Nobody cares if you are intelligent if you can't produce results. Wah, Wah, Wah, They're making me take tests and that's not fair. Well, there has to be some means of evaluation in order to sort out those that can from those that can't. And if you're truly just not very good at test-taking, then make yourself be known by other means. But I guarantee you, the chances are very slim that just being someone great is going to get you noticed. You wonder why average people excel more than exceptional people? It's because they have had to always produce more than the bare minimum in order to survive in any situation. So, if you want to be successful you had better be willing to work hard and finish what you start. Take from a so-called "exceptional" person who dropped out of college for several years only to realize that I was being lazy and self-centered which forced me to get my butt in gear, finish college and move on to graduate school. Do I love going to school and being completely broke at 28 years old. No way, but I realize that someday the hard work and sacrifices will pay off and then suddenly the big picture is very clear.

Me Too

[Goo.cc]

"My attention span is practically unlimited when I am interested in a topic"

Yeah, I like porn too.

good question

[moondo]

I think it's a good question you are asking. I don't know how many 'geeks' that aren't going to college and make decent money to sustain themselves are going to be here to refute my arguments with their 'bright'er knowledge... but I believe that you should go to college and choose a major you have the most interest in. And, once you're in college, for G's sake, gain all the abilities you can. It's all about using your time wisely. You may be 'bright', but if you get bored with something in a few weeks and you don't finish it, does it mean you're wise? It means you just can't deal with life. Those who can't deal with life (not wise, impatient, gay, whatever reason) just sit around and bitch about it. Life is supposed to be happy. So even if you're doing something you don't like, the smart (though not easy) thing to do is to make it fun. Sounds like a freaking teacher or something. But, at least it works for me (Nietzsche would wanna kill me with his slave morality shit theory; don't believe that crap).

The world is not fair and that's how it is. Now, you can deal with it the smart way or the rebellious way. The smart way is, well, the smart way. It may not always work, but there's a bigger chance of succeeding. Some people think it's stupid 'cus it looks like you're sucking up to people and just following. But before you listen to their bitching, ask them what do they suggest you do. Ask them to give you a concrete 5-year-plan of something for you to do the next half decade. If they provide you with a plan; check it out, and think about it and if you like it, do it. But if they can't give you a 5 year plan, then it's deja moo (feeling you heard this bullshit before). You have to think pragmatically. For example, think 'What works?' Arguing and being a jerk? Or submitting and being nice to my boss / teacher / whatever-authority-figure? Do what works. The boss will have work for you for the next 5 years, it may be boring, but it's work that will pay you. You can work and that will be your foundation to find a better job. You have to start somewhere. See what I mean?

I don't have any sources, this is just what I think. It's up to you, but I think the best thing is to invest in gaining new abilities... and believe it or not, you can do that in college.

what i have done about it.

[dincubus]

I have always been very interested in a variety of things, some of which i credit /. for. there once was this book reviewed on here called "faster than light: superluminal loopholes in physics". i have read that book a few times and gotten others interested in it. i have read other books on everything from other quantum physics books to books on the building of the hydrogen bomb, to books on biological warfare. so /. has fed my demon or is it daemon? but back to the point of replying to this, it is very hard for some of my professors to reign me in. they assign a 5 page paper, i crank out a 21 page monster because i feel the need to educate them on the subject of what i choose to write about. they understand and a couple have thanked me for bringing them some new info to chew on. so in the end i plow on, dig deeper for something new to work on and find new hobbies. i have gotten into growing giant pumpkins http://www.bigpumpkins.com so there are new things out there to look at and discover. keep plugging on and digging for new info to feed the search/quest for knowledge is what works for me

I've thought about this before

[vsage3]

Nearly my entire life I've grappled with some of what you are talking about. Despite living in a large city, people around me were constantly telling me how bright I was and well, it extends through today. I suppose math was my forte and and I had moderate success, a few strange ideas (I was fixated on Pascal's Triangle for like a year). It was very easy to feed into what people said, so I coped by attempting seemingly impossible tasks. Although this only resulted in people thinking I was more intelligent, it was extremely effective in showing to me that I am nothing unless I prove myself worthy. I draw on personal experience from my family because well, what you describe is the story of their lives, and well, not surprisingly, they all lead unhappy lives: low-paying jobs, numerous ailments of the mind, divorced, etc). If you are what you say you are, you should try to develop a certain amount of discipline before your life ends up like so many others, because society hardly ever throws bones to those who don't "contribute", as you make yourself out to be. I am in your position (age-wise) but tend to be the obsessive type rather than the dabbler in many things you make yourself out to be. Also, never seek any sort of gratification from people (as exemplified here it seems). If you are who you say you are (unless you're the next Einstein or Ramanujan), you CAN find the discipline to jump through the hoops that are higher education and achieve your ends.

I for one...

[efuseekay]

welcome our young bright underachieving overlords!

(Actually, my first tribute will be a nice BITCHSLAP!). :P

Skip college. Start your own business

[Anonymous Coward]

College may be a waste of time and money for you.

After 11 years in higher education (both as a student {3 degrees} and teacher) I have come to the conclusion that college is usually grossly overpriced and for many a waste of time. (Fortunately for me, the company paid for 2 of my degrees.)

You would probably be better off starting out in the workforce. Which, I know, without a piece of paper (i.e. college degree) can be tough. Hopefully you or your parents have some contacts. You might want to try to figure out what type of business you'd like to run for yourself. Then, make up a 5-10 year plan on how to get there. Ask yourself, "what type of skills do I need to succeed in this business?" Start taking jobs, not based on the pay or the corporate career growth, but based upon what skills those jobs will teach you that can help you in your 5-10 year plan. When you have learned a skill move on to a new job. It doesn't sound like you work well in a structured environment. By running your own business, you can be successful with only the structure you yourself impose. (Or admittedly, you could fall flat on your face. But, just remember "bankrupt is temporary, poor is forever." If you fall on your face, think of yourself as merely bankrupt)
(I know everyone hates it but one of the best skills in life is sales. It helps you get laid. It helps you to get financing.)

Coming out of high school you really don't have a good idea of what each job/profession does day-to-day. You could try to go to community college for a year, take a smorgasbord of classes, and see what each one is like. Now I know, community college is high school with ashtrays, but it is a price-to-education thing. But, if your goal is to use CC as a stepping stone you'll be OK. If you see CC as an "ends" versus a "means" you're likely to never get out, but have 5 Associate degrees. There is little point to paying $20k/yr in tuition plus room & board at a real college to take an unfocused meandering mishmash of classes. Granted, the parties at real college are better, but that isn't what you're paying for. If you're paying that much money, you should have a laser-tight focus on how college is training you in a career that'll payoff your student loans. If you are paying in-state tuition at a State College, the price-to-education ratio might make sense. The point of the class smorgasbord is to make sure what you may be interested in is what you think it is, and do have that cost as little as possible. I came out of high school thinking I'd be a Physics major. A few classes later I realized Physics was all dreary lab time and what I really wanted to do was design (preferably a Star Destroyer, but back to reality ...). To design I was going to have to (or at least it would be easier for me to) switch majors to Engineering.

The thing I am worried about is your lack of discipline to stay with something. You'll have to overcome that one way or another. I remember an interviewer telling me that my degree didn't prove I could do the job, only that I was trainable and could stick with something.

Take heart. One of the most successful people I know never bothered to graduate college. He is smart; he just didn't see the point of jumping through the hoops getting grades makes you jump through. He got a job based upon his skills and family contacts. After that first job his lack of a degree became less and less important. What was important is the companies he worked for and what the people thought of him.

jump out of that well

[workboomer]

I think what this person feels is not uncommon. A lot of us think we are smart because we only know ourselves... we don't know the competition!

PARENT IS A TROLL SHILL (NT)

[Anonymous Coward]

.....dgfs

Don't ask Slashdot

[Trespass]

These are the last people who want to ask. Bitter technophiles, the reflexively partisan, and assorted other pretentious misfits with nothing better to do on saturday night.

Yes this includes me.

Maybe you are as you say, maybe you are the sort of mental afterbirth who mourns the breakup of Creed. I don't know how to help you, and neither does anyone else here.

You're on your own, just like the rest of us. Beware of furries, quotemongers trying to sound wise, furries, and single mothers with scars.

Oh yeah, brush your teeth three times a day.

Work

[freejung]

there will be hours, or days or weeks or months, where you need to suck it up and apply yourself to something tedious

This is quite true, and I didn't mean to say that it isn't. Self-discipline is very important. But remember that self-discipline is simply the ability to do what you want to do. Sometimes it's very hard to do what you want to do, and you have to force yourself to do it anyway. But that's OK. You should definitely develop the ability to do things that are difficult, that's a key skill. What I'm saying is, you should do what you want to do. Sometimes the path to that will be tedious at times, but just remember that it's a path you have chosen, and stay on it.

But for heaven's sake, don't become one of these automata who hate their jobs and do them anyway because they can't come up with anything better to do. Be creative.

By the way, if you're worried about money, my understanding is that the experts in making money almost always say "do what you love, and the money will come."

Re:Work

[Otter]

Looking at the rest of the comments, there seem to be a number of pairs of people making the same pair of complementary points. ("I don't want to sound pretentious here, but Itchy and Scratchy comprise a dramaturgical dyad!")

Both points are worth his taking to heart.

Re:Work

[Uncle Gropey]

"do what you love, and the money will come."

So what's the starting salary for playing with yourself to pr0n?

Re:Work

[freejung]

So what's the starting salary for playing with yourself to pr0n?

Not much, but there's an enormous amount of money to be made from other people playing with themselves to pr0n. If pr0n is what you love, become a pr0n king, if you're good at it you'll make a killing.

Only one tip from me...

[Transcendent]

Don't be arrogant.

You'll go out and find you aren't as special as you think you are. Yes, I was the same way... and still am. I have a 3.92, graduated HS with lots of honors (higher gpa though... could have been higher if i didn't slack off my soph year), got all the comments about intelligence, genius, whatever. Now i'm a junior in college and work too.

I have a co-op job and work with some people I concider not as intelligent as I am or they just don't grasp things like I do... but I don't care. They know things that I don't, they think differently than I do, but they're engineers, they're smart too. You can be gifted in many different ways (I used to work at a bagle shop and had an awesome General Manager there. He was gifted in his own right and I highly respect him).

At work I have it setup where I get daily dilbert when I log into my computer... odly enough last week was pretty much all about the "prima donna" of the office. And now my only advice to you is to try not to be that guy.

Even in classes the same rule applies. Don't be that guy who thinks he's god's gift to the classroom/lecture hall. I've seen plenty of those, and no one likes them.

Who did we like or admire? The guy who got close to the higest grade on all the exams but kept to himself. He was bright, and not an ass hole.

Sure you might have the gifts for science, computers, art, music, or whatever you like... but what you really need to keep up in the real world is to have the social skills.

Re:Only one tip from me...

[ameoba]

Aye.

Get drunk & meet girls your freshman year of college; if you're half as bright as you say you are, you'll have plenty of free time & it's the perfect time to break out of the anti-social rut you were in in highschool. I suggest trying to do all those things that the 'other' people were doing in HS that you acted like you were better than.

Re:Only one tip from me...

[Anonymous Coward]

you'll need to get used to working at bagel shops and co-ops if your big plan is to go around trumpeting your superior intelligence in public, while making idiotic misspellings like 'concider' while you do it.

sorry, nothing personal. you should just realize what an idiot you sound like.

Re:Only one tip from me...

[Transcendent]

1) Slashdot is hardly public

2) Posting here even with a registered user name is pretty anonymous. This is the first I've ever even mentioned about my intelligence anyway.

3) Spellings are arbitrary. Who cares? I could have easily ran it through a spell check but... again... who cares?

4) You complain about my spelling when you yourself are far from perfect... I don't really care but I just thought you might.

5) Your entire argument is fallacious and misguided. My entire post was about not being arrogant or a prima donna, yet somehow you came to the conclusion that my big plan was to go around gloating - trumpeting - about my intelligence.

You call me an idiot but obviously don't even understand what I say. You're like a midgit making fun of someone 5'9".

The way to winning at life

[Anonymous Coward]

Find a hobby that you love, then find a way to make money doing it. If your hobby turns out to not be very profitable, then it may be that your hobby just isn't that profitable and you ought find a new hobby. Or perhaps you're not ingenious enough to find a way to turn that hobby into a money-making endeavor. There's nothing wrong with that; it doesn't mean you won't find a new hobby that you'll be able to make profitable for you and your family.

One thing I have learned in my (American) life is that a college degree is NOT REQUIRED to be wealthy or to have a happy and fulfilling life. Successful entrepreneurship depends on creativity, social ability, and intelligence. A college degree will buy you none of these things. A college degree will buy you the knowledge and experience to do say, engineering or legal practices, but people who can do those things are people that I want to hire, not necessarily become. (Though I admit the idea of garnering a law degree has crossed my mind a few times simply for its business benefits.)

You sound a lot like me: I, too, get intensely focused on things that interest me. Cooking, Japanese language, and programming have all been fun hobbies, but only the third one has turned out to make me much money. I'm still looking to find the hobby that I not only love, but will also make me assloads of money with which I can buy a deep and enjoyable lifestyle for myself and those I love. That's my understanding of someone who has won.

Re:Go to a college that won't just rubber-stamp yo

[blackula]

Haha, New College. It's like a summer camp, all year 'round! But seriously, unless your idea of fun is sitting around all day with no shoes on, stoned out of your mind, I'd stay away. A lot of the girls don't shave, also. Also, try to take some objective economics courses. I dare you. As far as those professors know, Marxist communism is the only viable economic system around. And yes, I speak from experience.

Another word of advice

[Anonymous Coward]

You're among the lucky few. Most people feel inadequate at intellectual tasks. They also resent being reminded of this real or imagined inadequacy as when you parade your real or imagined superiority in their face. So don't mention it... ever!

After all's said and done, the ultimate source of happiness in life is to be found in others - family, friends, lovers, children. So take care of people around you. Make a deliberate effort to keep in mind they should always be treated exactly as you would like to be treated in their place... or better.

Intellectual feats alone will get you nowhere as the world revolves, instead, around relationships.

Good luck

Learn to use your gift

[Jorj X. McKie]

The ability to concentrate on one thing (attention span) is highly useful. I learned to apply it to schoolwork, so I was quite successful in high school. Find something that interests you, that you can obsess about. You can use that to train your attention span to more conscious control.

In the short run, I'd suggest that you read Paul Graham's essays Why Nerds Are Unpopular and Hackers And Painters, from his book that was reviewed on Slashdot this past Tuesday. The first has some insight on why you probably were not interested in school, and the second speaks somewhat to your gifts.

Do what YOU want to do

[lowsix]

I can tell you from experience. I wanted to study math/science more in grade school but was in a private school that spent most of the day on religion. I now wish I had gotten myself kicked out of it.

I wanted to study physics in Univ. but went with Elec Eng because I thought I had to be practical and I could always double major. The professors made it impossible to double and I should have switched to physics.

Throughout life there are times when you do what others want you to, but you will do best following your own path. I think this is true for brilliant individuals as well as everyone else as we are all unique. But we could all blossom if we just followed our own path.

You don't sound like you need anyone else to lead you but have your own interests already. Follow them.

Hippy

[freejung]

hippy

Hey, how'd you guess? ;-)

Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[metacosm]

Article: "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments"

abstract: "People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it. Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence, helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities."

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Anonymous Coward]

- I 'connected' slightly with this fella for a few seconds until I read that article abstract. Then I remembered that it wasn't until college that I thought I was smart, now I notice that other people think the same thing through the middle years.

- EVERYONE gets bored with stuff that bores them (It seems really obvious when you write it out like that doesn't it!).

- Also I consider myself smart but I KNOW my limitations, and I have for as long as I can remember, rarely do I answer a question and get it wrong (VERY rarely), because I'm honest if I don't know the answer I just don't answer or say "I don't know", or add the old, "I'm just guessing here but..."

- CIP: Through High-School and college I graded my own tests before I turned them in, I write next to each question the percentage of the question I thought I got right, and then gave myself a grade based on my estimation of correctness, my deviation from actual grade averaged about 5%, the only times I was off by a high amount was when the teacher/professor was a dink and weighted question elements strangly (Like a calc teacher who gave 75% for the correct answer and 25% for showing work... which is backwards in my op.)

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Anonymous Coward]

ahh...so dumb people are bad at estimating

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[JayDiggity]

Just as an aside, this research won an Ig Noble award in 2000.

Read about it here.

One of the authors is at the school that I graduated from. In Psychology. Oh yeah, I'm proud.

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[gtoomey]

I've read this article many times, and have seen others refer to it many times. Its accurate & blisteringly insightful. And from reading other posts I get the feeling that Slashdot should be renamed "Asperger's Central" !

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Anonymous Coward]

(AC cos otherwise it would be whoring)

great link, thanks, really, really interesting!

'In 1995, McArthur Wheeler walked into two Pittsburgh banks and robbed them in broad daylight, with no visible attempt at disguise. He was arrested later that night, less than an hour after videotapes of him taken from surveillance cameras were broadcast on the 11 o'clock news. When police later showed him the surveillance tapes, Mr. Wheeler stared in incredulity. "But I wore the juice," he mumbled. Apparently, Mr. Wheeler was under the impression that rubbing one's face with lemon juice rendered it invisible to videotape cameras''

the rest is even better!

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[peteforsyth]

This is an interesting point, and I'm sure it applies to many people, but I have my doubts whether it applies to the original poster.

Another scenario is this: you have superior analytical ability, and people are generally impressed when you weigh in on a topic you've put some consideration into.

However, as much as people are appreciative of certain specific things you have to say, they are also put off by your social awkwardness, or by their inability to figure out where you're "coming from" or what your motivations are.

In a work environment you pursue problems that interest you, and often come up with very clever solutions, but not on the timetable others would like. You are intrigued by an interesting problem, but you are largely unconcerned with the political or self-interested motives of those around you. So you are seen as somewhat valuable, but unpredictable, and therefore not a good "ally."

So anything that requires you to cooperate closely with others or have their trust and confidence is pretty much a lost cause. You ARE smart, you DO have talent, but much of it is wasted because people you need are wary of you.

I believe that is also a common scenario, and my sense of the poster would put him more in that category.

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bob Slydell: What would you say ya do here?

Tom Smykowski: Well look, I already told you! I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to! I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[kfg]

ahh...so dumb people are bad at estimating

Yeah, I think that pretty much sums up this bit of research. As Vonnegut put it, "The trouble with really stupid people is that they're too stupid to realize there's such a thing as smart."

The key, as mentioned in the quote, is metacognition. Smart people think about thinking.

Dumb people just think they're smart.

KFG

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Delta Vel]

I'm guessing at least some of the inability to recognize when one makes a mistake could be due to our PC standards in the education system. If no one tells you when your conclusion is wrong, you might just go on thinking that of course lemon juice on your face will keep you from being recognized on a surveillance tape. Why not?

District 200 in Illinois' policy on correction of spelling errors: "only when appropriate." As if it is sometimes not appropriate to correct spelling. Don't want to make the kids feel bad because they can't spell...

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Anonymous Coward]

haha. so it's bollocks? mod this up then.

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[mondoterrifico]

No this is incorrect.
"Every Ig Nobel Prize winner has done something that first makes people LAUGH, then makes them THINK."
This is taken directly from their website.

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[dtperik]

Executive Summary: The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Eil]

Or, in English, even dumb people want to be smarter than they are.

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't bother to RTFA, but I can see that it is correct easily, except it has one weakness. It doesn't consider the real Geniuses. Like me for instance. We don't always have anything great to show for, but we are truely great, and we just know it. If we were just given a lucky break like all the others got, we would show the whole world how incredibly great we really are. Sadly, the world doesn't give us such breaks.

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Tony Freakin Twist]

maybe i'm one of the people that would score low on these tests but how, exactly, do you test for humor?

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[westendgirl]

Okay, so how would a person with such attributes counter the "ally" concerns of others? People are often wary of anyone who's smart. But how do you address that?

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Anonymous Coward]

you were part of the study, weren't you?

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[timotten]

Interestingly, Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments is actually an extension of the earlier, smaller study entitled, You're So Stupid: Why the Hell Can't You See It. The researcher ultimately decided that a study about his editors wouldn't survive review.

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[peteforsyth]

by making the effort to learn how to relate to people. Personally, I wasted many years thinking that just by being smart, I would eventually attract other smart people. Unfortunately (?), the reality is that you just have to learn to relate to other people,which might mean starting from scratch. Your intelligence means nothing to the receptionist if you can't find it in yourself to remember that her daughter has the measles, etc. Take a step back, and think about what other people are after. It's worth it.

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[NanoGator]

"maybe i'm one of the people that would score low on these tests but how, exactly, do you test for humor?"

You failed. Thank you for testing for humor. Come back soon!

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Niet3sche]

BANG ON.

It's funny; I've got the article PDF'ed back here and whip it out to show how ALL people seem to have a desire to be "normal" or "average" or what have you. The TRULY brilliant downplay it. The TRULY dumb typically make all sorts of excuses/claims/etc. Those in the middle seem to slog along just fine.

Now, on to the fun part of this post: my take on the discussion. It is this:

Go out and find something hard for you and do it!

I tend to find work quite simple and, abeit fun and all, just not horribly challenging. Now, does this mean I'm brilliant? Not in itself, no. Just means that I'm good at this type of thing. So I chose to enter grad school. And the funny thing is, I'm flourishing, while at the same time learning my limitations (yeah, a PhD program will do that to you!) and figuring out how to overcome them (with "nudges" by all interested parties). I got my first 4.0 in college last semester. Is this important at this stage? Not really, but it does help to paint a picture of going out and doing something on the borders of your comfort, and putting yourself into something hard ... and if it even comes out that you do well and like it ... hey, then that's about the best that anyone can ask out of life, IMO.

G'luck!

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[tverbeek]

Your last paragraph consists of three sentence fragments. The first lacks a verb. The second is a dependent clause. The third lacks a subject.

The above is an example of a "not appropriate" situation in which to correct someone's grammar. There is such a thing. Sorry if this upsets your simplistic black-and-white view of discipline/education, but it turns out that letting mistakes go uncorrected sometimes doesn't lead to the downfall of civilisation.

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[westendgirl]

It's certainly important to relate to other people. Anyone who overlooks the receptionist is making a serious mistake, IMHO. I thought perhaps you meant there were other ways to be perceived as an ally -- e.g. by agreeing with people for political gain.

Re:Unskilled and Unaware of It?

[Catharsis]

Rumsfeld's commentary on the Executive Summary:

There more you know you don't know, the more you realise there are known unknowns, unknown knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns.

Learn to be fukin modest

[Anonymous Coward]

You are probably not as bright as you think you are. College will teach you humility and prepare you for the real world. Being the brightest in high school is not a real achievement. EVERYONE goes to high school. If college doesn't teach you some humility, pray to your god that you find an equally full of "them"self mate, or you will die lonely and miserable.

I can't believe someone would such a stupid topic, or that such a stupid topic would be posted. WHAT is happening. And you want people to pay to use slashdot (purely optional). GROW UP.

Two suggestions

[tundog]

First, check out the Myers-Briggs personality typing. I found it to be incredibly insightful into how I look at the world. If you're a 'big picture' type, this can easily account for why your grades are sub-par - you may find details such as homework and attendance tedious. These are things that don't make a difference to the final goal, yet could be key elements of how you are graded.

If you haven't picked a school yet, I'd recommend the URI International Engineering Program. It's a 5 year dual-degree program that gets you a BS Engineering and a BA in Foreign Language/Culture. You pick the Engineering Department and Language. I needed something more than just engineering and found that this scratched my itch. I matched Comp Eng and German and am now 5 years into an awesome international career.

What to do

[Ironpoint]

LOL,

You pissed a lot of people off with your snotty post.

First thing you have to realize is that your only value to other people is in how your existance and actions promote THEIR survival. Humans are animals and, excluding disease, are only concerned with survival. Hence, Friendships are simple arrangements in which two people have similar concerns regarding survival. Its no coincidence that people form friendships based on race, social class, same geographic location, common interest/knowledge sharing.

On the same token, if you have not already formed a rapport with people they will regard you as a tentative enemy. So for people replying to your post, you have to just say fuck em and ignore.

Don't ask people for life advice, people don't want you to survive unless it helps them to survive. They don't give a shit. Sad, but thats the world we live in.

As far as school is concerned, you probably should take a couple years off. School to most people is to establish a pecking order. The herd goes to school because the higher up in the pecking order, the less work you have to do. Don't go to college unless/until your reason is to kick other peoples asses.

Diagnosis

[Anonymous Coward]

you probably have ADD or ADHD

What I did, wrong and right.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know if I'm in your category, but here's what I did:

W R O N G
=========

1) Too much focus on getting grades; I should have worried less about exams and more about learning.
2) Too much attention to classes, didn't have a life until 17.
3) Too much attention to life (friends, cars, women etc.), totally blew school around 18; I should really have used better my time.
4) Excessive respect for teachers: usually the harsher ones were NOT my friends... just filled with prejudice and hatred.
5) Lack of consideration for some great dudes who were my professors: some I let down when I dropped out of their courses, with others I argued too much without trying to understand their views (and learn what they tried to teach, God bless them).
6) Excessive respect for my family: trying too hard to please them, by doing things I would never do, because I REALLY couldn't force myself.
7) Lack of maturity to do the right thing in consideration of my family's best interests, even when that meant to choose a different path from what they had planned.

R I G H T
=========

1) I always loved to learn, even when I was lazy to do my homework.
2) I always wanted to accomplish great things, and I still do... with age, though, I got more realistic about what I can do.
3) I always had faith in myself, even when most wouldn't... Homer is my hero ;-)
4) I did start things all over again, and eventually was succesful. Winning after having lost is much better than winning the first time.
5) I had an excellent course at the university, because I made it excellent. I enjoyed every single minute. I marvelled at how things were fascinating, and I did make questions all the time, even when everyone was almost asleep (at 11 PM).
6) I learned to use the school as a tool. Do you know what is important to learn in an area of knowledge? What to learn first? Which are the dependencies? How to organize classes? Well, the school has all this ready. Not always well done, but usually good enough so that you can focus energies in learning.
7) I learned to "work together" my classmates... being a leader is ok, but sometimes you're chosen because you have the best handwriting. There's really no "lesser guy", I concluded. This led to a more productive life for me in several environments, including with my wife. With father, mother and brothers not, but that would be asking too much. ;-)

Hope this helps.

personal ad

[Anonymous Coward]

... I like long walks on the beach and interesting conversation. E-mail me and I will use my huge cranium to respond and sweep you off your feet

Its going to be a hard slog until the PhD

[ploppy]

I was like you as a teenager, interested in everything, the occult, radio theory (early radio design of the 20s/30s), computing, history. Deep interest for a while then complete boredom until the next interest. Always an obsession with one then moving onto the next, to the exclusion of other interests.

School work (including the degree) was always a struggle, never any interest, it was either something I was not interested in (having strong views on everything), which meant it was a struggle to do well, or it was something I was interested in, which meant I'd already done it to a far greater degree than it was taught, leaving the teaching boring slow and patronising (as I thought then). Either way I always found it difficult to do as well as people who I considered of lower ability (in my not very humble opinion then).

The PhD was completely different, no taught component (British PhD), just an ability to spend three years obsessionally doing something I wanted to do. In the process my academic performance changed from so-so (upper second degree rather than the 1st I was easily capable of), to PhD work which was (in my opinion and others) one of the best and most innovative PhD research produced in the department.

The difference? Not having to deal with slow teaching, accomodate other people's views and being able to do a very individual PhD.

The problem (as I realised later) is all those pieces of paper are important to get because no body is going to take any notice if you've not got them! I always hoped my brilliance and clever projects undertaken in preference to the school work would be recognised, rather than the boring pointless assignments and exams. They were not. I learnt I should have treated all the taught work as a game, play the game and get the marks.

The problem post PhD is that everything is as plodding and constrained as the degree. Become an academic, be prepared to put up with lots of rules and regulations, pointless teaching (I found setting assignments and exams as pointless as I found taking them as a student), corporate IT is of course even worse.

Your intelligence and iconoclasm will always make you an outsider and misfit. Ultmately you have to learn to accept it, and know when you have to play the game even when you don't want to.

Some real advice

[Scratch-O-Matic]

I felt the same as you...maybe I'm as smart as you and maybe not.

But here's the thing that has made my life invaluable. No shit...

FIND AND CHERISH GOOD FRIENDS.

Your talents will take you wherever they take you, but friendship will fill the gaps.

Re:Some real advice

[mandalayx]

just curious. are your friends geeks too?

Re:Some real advice

[Anonymous Coward]

So true! ... and no, not all my friends are geeks...

well...

[Anonymous Coward]

if you put the bong down, you might be able to apply yourself. Damn stoners......

Not necessarily arrogant

[skywolf]

Lots of posters criticise you for being arrogant - this may be the case, but I read your question as "I have some gifts, but this is not reflected in my academic accomplishments to date. I am worried my capabilities will go to waste, and I will feel unfulfilled."

Is this fair?

As some of the other posters have mentioned, you will need more application in order to succeed in any field. However, there are benefits to being an all-rounder and my suggestion would be to find a varied field. This way you won't get too stuck-in-a-rut.

AC

There are no answers

[agilliland]

I dare say that the people who frequent this news site are in no position to tell you what you should or should not do. Just get out there, do it, and be as true to yourself as you possibly can.

Only YOU know what you want out of life and the only advice worth giving is to say, "Don't ever be afraid to make mistakes, because that's the only way you learn things."

To me the real value of school is to learn about yourself, not to learn about biology or engineering. Remember, sometimes it takes a negative experience to inspire you in the right direction.

I think the one mistake I see people make most often is to take life too seriously. Please, for the love of god, just try and enjoy yourself out there.

Now that you've read what I have to say, forget it and make up your own damn mind!

A few ideas.

[DFortress]

1. Classes arn't everything, and I learned just as much outside of traditional classes at college as I did in class. Keep in mind that you can accomplish cool things in your own time, but people will admire you if you can stick with a larger project through completion. I would suggest that you get an idea for a longer term (at least 2 semesters long) project and stick with it though completion. Keep it well documented and presentable. Don't feel that you have to do it alone, get a partner or a small group.

2. Take courses that keep you interested, but also make an effort to take courses such speach, writing, and communication. Most employers outside of college want people who can communicate well (both spoken and written) this is almost without exception. Make an effor to meet as many people as you can in classes, only about 1/4 of my friends in college were in my major (CS).

3. Join clubs that may keep you motivated/interested. Many universities have computer clubs or ACM chapters (www.acm.org). Also don't forget other activities that may interest you (ski club, music, etc...) It's a good way to meet people with similar interests and get involved.

4. If possible, look for an internship. And when you get ready to graduate, start applying for job (or grad school) during the fall of your senior year, otherwise you could be sitting around for a while without a real job after you get out.

That's what I think, but hey YMMV.

Need some insight? Read Harry Poter.

[Anonymous Coward]

It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.

-Albus Dumbldore.

Get up, Get out and Do Something /
Don't let the days of your life pass you by

-Outkast

How many more pop culture platitudes, homilies, or age old sayings will it take for you to get up off your ass and stick to something?

What is going to take for you to realize that it takes more than slightly-above-average intelligence for you to actually make something of your life.

OK. So you figured out that you may be a tad bit smarter than the average bear. Who gives a damn? Understanding means nothing. Get out and CREATE something unique; maybe even do something to earn the pat on the back you're giving yourself because no one else is going to give you a damn thing just because you're smart.

Just ask the concert pianist you just passed lying on the park bench strung out on crack if anyone really cares about so-called genius over solid life choices. (Two extra points if it's my kid's dad. Ask him about the child support check, will ya?)

Advice from another INTP

[Maskirovka]

Get a business degree with a minor in something you enjoy (eg, photography). Combined with your diverse skills, it should open up a lot of doors for you.

I completely understand...

[nilspace]

Your question sounds like something I would ask myself, phrase for phrase.

My interests have always been far-spread (again, from programming, robots, to playing an instrument, learning foreign languages, painting, etc). I've always compared myself akin to the "Renaissaince Men" of centuries past: Thomas Jefferson, or Benjamin Franklin as good examples.

And no, I don't think it is trite of you to ask such a question. Too often our society looks down upon intelligence, and being bright. That's why all the US schools are doing away with Valedictorians, b/c it makes the not-top-students or bright ones feel "bad".

Anyways, back to your question, you will probably experience the same thing in University that you have been to date. You will manage to get by classes, everyone will think you *should* have a 4.0, when in reality you're getting by just barely on grades alone. My best suggestion is to learn what you can, get to be friends with the profs who actually take an interest in your education and learning and talk with them and share ideas. But also don't just give up on school. It definitely helps you meet people, open doors, and move onto things that you would have had difficulty without the schooling and degree.

Also, join out of class activities. Student groups, engineering teams, and so on. These are great chances to meet with people like you and do truly amazing things. I was a member of an engineering team that I became the head of during my second year of undergrad, raised $250k and built a 20-meter computerized, electric airship. The project let me expand beyond any syllabus or expectation set forth by standardization.

Don't lose your self-confidence. Sure, don't be "cocky" or overconfident, more than likely it will lead you to make stupid mistakes or just make people that don't know you dislike you. But being self-assured and self-reliant is a terrific asset.

Re:I completely understand...

[DerekLyons]

My interests have always been far-spread (again, from programming, robots, to playing an instrument, learning foreign languages, painting, etc). I've always compared myself akin to the "Renaissaince Men" of centuries past: Thomas Jefferson, or Benjamin Franklin as good examples. If you make that comparison, then it means you almost certainly aren't. What sets the Renaissance man apart from the dilettanteisn't the breadth of his interests, but the breadth of his competency.

Re:I completely understand...

[nilspace]

Agreed.

but...but....

[Anonymous Coward]

What spirit?! From reading his/her "the world is not made for me" post, it seems like his/her spirit is already crushed and he/she needs some serious handholding.

Putting effort can't hurt

[line.at.infinity]

A psych class that I was in did a survey of what people thought of themselves. Questions were "I believe I am smarter than 50 percent of the class," and similar questions, replacing "smarter" with "better looking," "more humorous", etc. For each question, at least about 70% of the class answered "yes." So most people are by nature full of shit. You need to get used to keeping up with the work, or else you're screwed when finals approach when professors dump 50% of the class material and there's only two weeks left until finals. Time management and effort is going to count no matter how much you think you're the shit.

Re:A few words of advice from someone who understa

[rugwuk]

Where did you school?

Everyone is smart in one way or another

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, just like you I love to learn (everything from Linux to religious history, from why some fish change colors to the artworks of DaVinci, from relativity to inmortality, and everything in between), and learning anything for me is easy (like English), and I can solve most problems of all types in my head almost instantaneously by using simple patterns, but that a genius does not make me, or make other people less smart than I am in many areas.

Long ago I had a friend who to the eyes of most people was mentally retarded (I mean, this guy took the SAT three times just to get a way-below average score...), but if you gave this guy any video game in existance, this guy would beat it in a couple of days. And I don't mean just action games, but logic games with puzzles, simulations and so on. He couldn't figure out how a REPEAT loop worked in BASIC (I'm not kidding), and yet he could kick my ass on any game any time. Like him, I've met many people in life who at first seemed "not on the bright side", but once you get to know them you'd be amazed. I think intelligence is a relative term to what you're doing and (most importantly) to what you like (or in some cases, what your particular brain "wiring" is best at). The fact that people like you and me like so much to learn and are good at many things does not necessarily makes us brither or smarter; it's just a different life; everyone thinks different and has his/her own motivations and tastes in life and how to approach those things.

So I'm happy that you love to learn, you hate school but are probably great at the things you like, but before you (consiously or unconsiously) think you're brighter than the rest, look around again in more depth, and you will realize that the fact that you lack the virtue of finding out what other people's great qualities are, is something that from someone else's point of view can place you in the "less bright" category (although, as I explainined above, that'd be wrong too).

Step 1: Find people.

[melpoing]

You (usually) don't get to pick the kids you go to high school with; you do get to pick the ones you go to college with. Hopefully you're going to a school with a bunch of good people. My advice - the first thing you should do is find them. Look for folks that share your interests, intellect, and drive. Being buddies with people "like you" is one of the most rewarding experiences anyone can have, especially if you haven't had that before now. Good friends can get you really revved up about things and introduce you to subjects you might not have considered before; in any case, they'll support your passions, which is a big plus.

overcome your limitations!

[superpixel2000]

I had a similar experience in life. And after some hard times I've learned to overcome my limitations. I consider myself very successful (although I've traded fame and fortune for a happy family, and fame & fortune can wait)-- but it was a tough road.

Hellen Keller was unique, brilliant, and deaf and blind. This did not stop her from doing some amazing things. I believe you must want to continue in your current course. It's the easy thing to do, and, quite frankly, this is the road most people choose.

But you have a choice! You can choose a different route. However you do it, learn to fight the ADD (or whatever), the procrastination, etc. Learn to focus, to follow through. Or don't. It's TOTALLY up to you.

However, if you do not overcome the limitations you see in yourself, what have you got? This much I know: you will see less "gifted" individuals achieve more, earn more, and do more than you.

Best of luck!

grow up

[RestiffBard]

or at least mature a little bit more before you ask that question. You're a kid. you haven't the foggiest clue about yourself. I figure in about a year you'll be completely amazed that you would even post such a thing to slashdot. that's how I feel about some old usenet posts.

I understand where you're coming from. I figure most of /. does. But I hope you don't let the normals know you think that way. You'll end up with a reputation as an arrogant prick.

1), 2), 3) Profit.

[Coreigh]

I know how you feel. I am about 10 years beyond college age and now work at a university. This has put me in a position to have some great insight to myself at least. My advice is to spend your energy studying anthing that you are interested in. BUT do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get that flippin' piece of paper that says you have a degree in something, anything. That paper won't mean much regarding your education but it will help you in ways that you can't imagine. Stupid ways sometimes, but you'll have one less hurdle in life.

So in review:
1) Study what interests you.
2) Get a degree, ANY degree.
3) Profit.

- Coreigh

Read this site

[deemon]

http://hoagiesgifted.org/

Step 1: get over yourself

[noda132]

Nobody likes people who toot their own horns. I'd feel much more inclined to like you if you had only written in your Ask Slashdot, "I love learning, yet I never have found school enjoyable." All the rest makes people dislike you, and it doesn't help anyone answer the question.

I'm speaking from personal experience: I used to be quite full of myself. And guess what, I didn't like high school when I used that attitude. Quite certainly, your first step to enjoying school (and life!) more is to learn a lesson in humility.

After that, ask yourself: is school the best thing to do? It sounds like you're only going to college because that's what everybody else is doing / told you to do. When I felt that way I took a year off school --boy, did it clear things up for me and help me decide what I want to do! So don't think school is the only option; it's not.

All that said: University is nothing at all like high school. You're treated like an adult and are expected to learn fast. So it sounds to me like you'd enjoy it -- but lose the attitude or you'll be miserable. You're treated like an adult because you're expected to be an adult; bullshit about being "unique" won't get you anywhere.

Re:Step 1: get over yourself

[RaymondRuptime]

Dear Anonymous:

Adam here is being a bit harsh. But essentially, he's right.

I'm one of those annoying, gifted jackasses. I have 4 kids who are also gifted. So I have a good viewpoint on this topic, and have had to consider how to guide my kids (two of whom are in college).

The one lesson that I haven't seemed to get across to them, and which you probably need, is: the universe doesn't give a randy fart if you're bored, if an assigment is beneath you, etc. There are things that you do because they're expected, and you have to get over your own sense of specialness and suffer just like everybody else.

When we were in school, we would punish teachers who were dolts or who failed to make class interesting by getting bad grades, and reward teachers we liked by plowing tons of extra effort into assignments that were exciting. The former was just stupid, but I didn't figure that out until graduate school. What we should've done was said to ourselves, "Dang, this manure is pathetically easy; so I'm going to finish it in fast motion, and then I can go back to writing my own Space Invaders emulator without (a) getting grief from authority figures or (b) getting kicked out of school." I'm bright, but apparently I wasn't bright enough to figure out that I was punishing myself and not the Pointy-Haired Instructors until I'd been on academic probation.

(My favorite evidence of this pattern of punishing the boring and unchallenging was that my GPA went up every single semester as I was able to stop taken moronic general ed classes and got permission to take upper division classes.)

Not only that, but you're not really unique (any more than anyone else). If you really are gifted, then there are at least, what, 2 million people just like you in the US alone; and maybe 40 or 50 million in the world. You just infrequently occur.

What those numbers mean is that you are not deserving of special privileges--some sort of Get Out of Jail Free card from ridiculous assignments and PHBs. It means, rather, that you have special responsibilities, and perhaps that you may get some special opportunities if you use your gifts wisely. If you blow off hoop-jumping, you won't do well enough to open the really interesting doors that can open to you 4 years from now. And no matter how challenging or interesting a direction you find for yourself then, if you don't fulfil the responsibilities which come with being gifted, you will struggle for years over whether your life is meaningful.

So: don't be hung up on yourself; challenge yourself to do well in the tedious, required classes; take advantage of college to indulge your laudably varied interests; set yourself up to do whatever you want after your undergrad time is done; and then do something meaningful. Do this, and you will be glad that you are gifted, and so will those whose life you touch.

It's like an F1 car (or a freight train)

[kardar]

You can't drive an F1 car on the street. Or perhaps a four-leaf clover. Or something like that.

The important part, actually, is realizing, or finding ways to make things that are unpleasant tolerable - to approach things objectively - like criticism, for instance, like politics, demonstrations, being chewed out by someone who doesn't like you and perhaps feels threatened by you.

It's the ability to tune out those unpleasant "vibes", if you will - you could call it adapting, perhaps - tune them out and regather yourself.

See the thing is, some people are capable, at least in their own words, of doing something that they really hate. I say that you don't have to hate it; you just have to learn how to tune out the negative emotions and the unhealthy feelings. As a matter of fact, if you hate it, such as many of these apparently successful individuals point out, something inside of you won't even allow you to continue; your subconcious will be at war with your rational mind and you will never quite understand the complex failures that you will experience.

To be perfectly honest, I doubt that any individual that talks about "hell" and "stuff you have to do" hasn't had a boyfriend or girlfriend or some other "goal" or "dream" that has helped them "get through" this crap.

Let's face it - there are so many people whom science isn't capable of understanding! And you may not be one of them, but sometimes this stuff is visible, but we just don't understand it.

The talent, the gift, the solution, the answer is this - learn how to tune out anything that doesn't feel or is known as not being good - I mean things like laziness, depression, FUD, inappropriate criticism, and learn how to enjoy just sitting at a desk doing a repetitive task. Some very successful individuals may feel that you may get further in life by running electric shocks through your body, or perhaps hitting yourself over the head with a sledgehammer while sitting at a desk doing repetitive tasks, but nothing could be futher from the truth. The key is learning how to tune out the emotions and fears (and those voices in your head of all those successful people who have been through hell and back) and focusing on the task at hand. You can get it down to a point where this feels really good. Just tune out the negative stuff, and slowly but surely, focus on what you are doing, and you will be amazed at how much you can accomplish.

And if you think about it, this is probably the most important skill anyone can have - the ability to not let anything phase you, the ability to not let anything get inbetween you and that which you have either decided to do or that which you must to in order to accomplish or get to a point where you want to go.

Tune out the FUD, and the self-aggrandizing nonsense from all those masochistic successful individuals and watch those A's start rolling in. Science isn't advanced enough to understand you (yet).

Study hard; work hard; accomplish lots - but do it with a calm, positive mind. It's definitely a skill worth learning.

yet more advice

[inkpassion]

learn to enjoy the versatility of ramen and the many flavors avilable

My story

[arlandbayes]

I have two degrees (Chemistry and computer science). Academically I was always way above average. I'm 37. I used to be employed as a computer programmer but was recently fired for suggesting that maybe my "role" was way to tightly constrained by management. Now I'm unemployed but I still have a postive attitude and I'm looking for some pursuit that will suit me better.

Re:My Story

[Dj Superfly]

Crazy story you have freejung. Made even crazier for me to read because I've been to a lot of those places. I even stayed in Cabinas Tesoro a few years back. The more time I spend in Costa Rica, the more I get the feeling there is a bunch totally crazy shit going on just below the surface. Glad you got out of it all ok.

Advice

[wde]

Well, I'm able to recognize more than 200 words and fetch a previously-unseen toy from another room on command.

Life's Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

There are many things that one doesnt understand in life and only does so as they get older. Therefore, I hope the below helps you.

1. There are 2 ways you can work in life. One is with your body and the other is with your mind. Your going to sweat either way.
2. You can do anything you want to do. You just have to want to bad enough.
3. It doesnt matter what type of work you do in life. Just do it well.
4. The definition to success in life is whatever makes you happy.
5. The average person holds 8 or more different jobs in their lifetime.
6. You deserve only what you can afford.
7. Mistakes are not bad things. They are learning experiences.
8. Everything you do in life has consequences. Some are permanent.

second best solution

[utslive]

Just wait til opportunities arrive. Sometimes time is the best solution for this. Especially if you haven't finished college / got a degree..

Or, try to do ahead, and make something big. What big thing that is, is left for you to find out. Although usually they'll say one man can't make much difference, if you're a true genius as you say you are, you should be able to come up with something.

Anyways, you're not the only one. There's tons of other people like you. To stand out from the rest though, is another matter.

Photography+Cooking+Computers =

[BW_Nuprin]

Me! You've listed all my major interests, minus cars. If you have an '86 Integra, then stop stealing my life! Seriously, though, I think I know where you're coming from. My interest in programming is purely artistic... I'm not interested in databases or kernels... I don't even currently use Linux (attn flamers: I used to run Slackware, I just don't have time these days). I do GBA games and artists tools for game companies... you'd probably do well to think about work in games or interface design...

Particularly if you're a Linux geek! PLEASE do something about the various user interfaces!

Can of Worms

[Reeses]

God, this is going to sound trite, and like I'm blowing my own horn, but here goes.

Ok, I've been tested repeatedly, and I know where I stand overall on the "intelligence" thing. Repeated tests as a child and an adult have all given then same result, within a point or two. I moved around a lot as a kid, and every time I did, the new school system would have to test me to find out where to place me. There were a number of times where I'd go to the principal's office and hear "we've never seen test scores this high... umm.. we don't really know what to do with him." My parents not being financially well off, and this being in the day before "magnet schools" were common place, I usually just did my regular school work, and was asked to participate in the Gifted and Talented program. GT/TAG/Gifted (whatever the school I was at called it) had the benefit of exposing me to many different things. Sadly, I felt the school system under-served me. Anyway, being "bright" really hasn't helped. But here's a few things I've learned:

1) Learn to speak "normal". Yes, you may have a prodigious vocabulary, but it doesn't impress anyone. It's more important to convey your ideas in a clear manner than to bog them down in utterances that make people cogitate. (yes, that was deliberate) If you have to, try to keep technical jargon to a minimum. Learn to recognize when someone's eyes glaze over. That's not to be taken as a sign of triumph. It's the first indicator that you're not properly conveying what you what to get across. Metaphors are your friends.

2) If your tastes really are as eclectic as you say, prepare yourself to take a wide variety of courses. Take a diverse set of electives. Look at your hobbies, and go from there. I'm a movie effects junkie, so I've taken some film courses. An advertising course or two, etc. There's no reason to turn your nose up at any course. Just be prepared to find out that you may not be good at something. Me, I can't draw organic forms. If you can afford it, and have the time, it may be best if you try to do multiple majors. You will find that many curriculae overlap. I started as an engineering major, then switched to programming, then switched to something else. Then I took a financially driven hiatus. Now I'm a business major. Partially because there's no point in me trying to become an engineer at this point, since I'm now too old to be an effective "junior engineer". Ironically enough, a business major was the only major flexible enough to allow me to complete my degree without having to retake a whole lot of courses. In addition, I've also figured out that everything in this country is business driven. The only reason you're doing something in the work place is to drive business. So, I figured it was better to know how that worked. If I had college to do all over again, I'd do industrial design with some acting and film classes, and I'd date that girl, and break up with that other one.

3) Odds are you want to aim for your Master's. Go to school. Graduate. Work a few years. See what you like, get a Master's in it.

4) Accept the fact that there will be a bunch of people who never understand you, and never will. Learn to be sociable, one way or another.

5) Don't lord your superiority over anyone. You'll find that it burns more bridges than it creates. Humility is the best road. I hae no idea how many times, when asked how I figured something out, I just shrugged and said " I dunno" and just moved on.

6) Make friends with your professors at college. These people are some of the classic Gatekeepers who are in charge of a frightening amount of opportunity. In addition, don't look down on someone because they're lesser than you in position or title. These people should know their jobs, and know it pretty well. The amount of information stored in their heads is amazing. Be nice to all of them.

7) There are no such things as jobs that are beneath you. Yes, there are shit jobs, and will always be shit jobs. But, someone has to do them. And if tha

Re:Can of Worms

[cubicledrone]

Yes, you may have a prodigious vocabulary, but it doesn't impress anyone.

Oh, yes it does. When $70,000 a year journalists can't tell the grammatical difference between their, there and they're, having a prodigious vocabulary helps a lot.

Learn to recognize when someone's eyes glaze over.

Then leave. Working for that person will be an exercise in anguish.

Re:Can of Worms

[Reeses]

When $70,000 a year journalists can't tell the grammatical difference between their, there and they're, having a prodigious vocabulary helps a lot.

I agree. But you missed the example: that you don't have to try to impress people with using really big words, when diminutive ones will do. ( I did it again.) Conveying the idea is more important than showing someone how smart you are.

Then leave. Working for that person will be an exercise in anguish.

Yes, but who said you were working for them? What if it's a co-worker? What if it's a client, who's in charge of your budget? That's no reason to treat them like idiots because they may not know the meaning of a 3+ syllable word.

Re:Can of Worms

[cubicledrone]

What if it's a co-worker?

Quit. Idiot co-workers are usually in the manager's office bright and FUCKING early, bitching, griping and whining about how the intelligent people aren't being "team players" because the idiot co-worker couldn't understand a few technical terms.

What if it's a client, who's in charge of your budget?

A client's eyes glaze over? Don't they want me to be intelligent if I'm spending their money?

That's no reason to treat them like idiots because they may not know the meaning of a 3+ syllable word.

Using three syllable words is not "treating someone like an idiot."

Re:Can of Worms

[Anonymous Coward]

Idiot is a three-syllable word.

Re:Can of Worms

[cubicledrone]

Well, there you go.

Time off

[rinks]

Personally, I don't think it's a bad idea- if it's possible- to take a year off between high school and college. Seeing what it's like to do work to support yourself and get some perspective. I would imagine college would seem a lot more interesting when you've seen the alternative. Just my two cents.

Re:Jesus

[dustinbarbour]

Everything is a fuckin' syndrome these days. He doesn't have a syndrome you psycho-babbling clod!

Research, research, research

[BongoBen]

What you want to do is get involved in a research project. Best case is to come up with your own project, something you're really interested in or find exciting to work with. The thing is, it's hard to get into worthwhile projects until you get into graduate school, but if you find worthwhile professor while you're an undergraduate, maybe they can help you. My point is, research let's you think for yourself, and work towards new ideas that noone else has explored yet. It's far different from the same old drudgery they give you in classes.

Don't get distracted

[DavidNYC]

I think you'll see a lot of bitterness in the replies -- many men (especially) feel this way when they see that their opportunities are not all they are cracked up to be. I too was bright but did not like school -- as the years have gone by I have become more arrogant than ever -- I think school is broken, unfortunately, and the skills needed to excel there have nothing to do with what's needed to make a contribution and live a good life. A college degree is very helpful for many things, so go ahead and get it. But the best education, of course is the thing that expands the mind and heart, that connects you with the great rivers of learning and compassion that humanity has contributed to and drunk from for thousands of years. You have already learned that the road of schooling in our country travels a good many miles from these rivers, and rather takes the road of indoctrination into conformity and vocational training. That's the rant, here's the essence: Do what you have to do to keep the wolf from the door, but never forget that it is your real, your inner life that makes it all worthwhile. Pursue that uncompromisingly, stay open to other people and try to make a contribution to the world, don't be dazzled with promises of opportunity or depressed at their apparent scarceness. Life always presents new turns, challenges, excitements and interests. If you stay open to life and pursue it with zeal, you will not turn bitter like some of the other posters here.

Re:Don't get distracted

[cubicledrone]

I think you'll see a lot of bitterness in the replies -- many men (especially) feel this way when they see that their opportunities are not all they are cracked up to be

No. They feel this way when their years and years and YEARS of hard work are crammed into a shitpipe by some lying cheat fuck middle management bastard.

We are all "Uniquely Bright"

[thewiz]

It's what you DO with your intelligence that's important. Find a cause to champion, find people that need your skills and help them, or save the world; it's all up to you.

As for college, start at a community college and take your basic subjects while you search for the direction you want your life to go. You'll save money and won't be stuck in a classroom with 300 people where you are a faceless student number. I've found that the professors at community colleges are just as good as those at the 4-year variety.

Read everything you can get your hands on. Don't think that you should just read your textbooks; read other books on the same subject or on a subject totally unrelated to the classes you are taking. By reading across a broad spectrum of subjects you'll be able to appreciate how what you do affects, or is affected by, other areas of human endeavour.

Lastly, read books on self-improvement. I see a couple have already been mentioned (How to Win Friends and Influence People, etc). Never forget that you are a work-in-progress and need to keep working on yourself. After all, without the ability to interact successfully with others, you'll find that you'll have a hard time landing any type of gainful employment.

I've got the same thing you do.

[Arivia]

(For all those "you're not a beautiful snowflake" people: No, we may not be, but we're different. It comes across so many times each day. It may not be apparent from the question, but you're inwardly fighting things each day. Many professions don't work for you(you need free space to let your mind go, or you can't concentrate). The school system doesn't work-it's not designed to teach you well. I can't stress this enough-we're the kids who can do well, but interest is the guiding factor. If you can't interest us, give up any hope of us caring.
My Advice: Sort out your political, philosophical, and spiritual views-the standards don't fit you. If you haven't already, read the Hacker Ethic(don't have my copy at hand, so I only remember Linus wrote the preface)-it might help you sort those things out. To survive, do what I do-drop any preface of anything that doesn't interest you once you get out of your commitments for the day. Go home, and express yourself. Come home, and think about nothing than what interests yourself. In my case, I don't study-it doesn't seem to help me, and it's wasted time to me. Carrying around a laptop to class is a good idea-if you can't concentrate very well, try setting up an audio capture program, and listening to what your prof said later(If your university offers transcriptions by stenographers or such, those are helpful.). The muse will hit often, hard, and usually when you're supposed to be listening. A laptop will help you keep her around, and worry about school later. For later life: Live life on your own terms-the rat race does exist, and will try to claim you. I pray that you are going to be educated in an area of interest to you, and that you can find a creatively releasing job in it quickly after leaving schooling. Find and customize things to suit you-that's important. If you are interested in contacting me, email me at the address provided, or leave a note in my journal here, giving an email address or other way to contact you. I am sure there are things I've forgotten.

LOL!

[freejung]

Unfortunately for this guy, you also have to be smart in a conventional sense.

To be a lawyer? Oh, my, that's a good one. Tell that to the moron who prosecuted me. He was dumb as a post, it's a wonder he made it into law school, let alone through it. You have to be a good bullshitter, but I think that's about it.

Mensa

[dustinbarbour]

Join (or attempt to join) Mensa. There are loads and loads of intelligent people here. I'm a member and, though I don't get too involved with my local chapter, I find the time I do spend with others in the organization to always be stimulating and thought provoking. And if nothing else, it's something for your resume!

Evaluate yourself

[g3head]

While I'm sure there is a real psychologist on /. but the only person that can really give you advice on this matter is yourself. If you don't think you're really for college quite yet, don't waste the money/scholarships/time until you are. Anymore you will need a college degree to get a job that doesn't require you saying "Would you like fries with that" or "Paper or Plastic" but if you need some time to clear your head, make some time.

If you really think you're that clever come up with a killer idea, make it work and use it when you're ready to go on to more education, but don't think you will be able to coast on your innate cleverness for the rest of your life, because there's no way in hell its going to happen.

No, I disagree

[BlightThePower]

If you're in one of the best colleges for your degree, you should probably be getting another degree. If all those things are true, get a graduate degree.

This is possibly the worst possible motivation for getting a graduate degree (I should add I'm an academic myself so I have an idea of what I am talking about). The ONLY reason to get a PhD these days is for love of the subject. I couldn't bear the idea of not being involved in research in my field and my colleagues all felt the same. You will never make up the money you lose doing it, and in the end its not like people fall at my feet in worship everytime I use my title. Its a long, hard slog usually, intelligence is not the main factor in getting through anyway: its a work ethic and a bit of grit.

You can get just as much intellectual stimulation in industry if you land the right post. And get paid handsomely for doing it. The graduate degree is only for those who truly want it, we quite often see those who think of it as an intellectual penis-extending exercise fall by the wayside. And rightly so to be honest.

Re:No, I disagree

[jrockway]

Getting a PhD is helpful. At Abbott, for example, you start at level 17 whereas BS people start at 13. 17 means much higher pay, and your own office. So it does pay off. And being called Doctor isn't a bad thing :)

Re:No, I disagree

[ldspartan]

True. When I said 'graduate degree,' I probably should have said 'Masters.' In any case, thats what I meant.

Re:No, I disagree

[Anonymous Coward]

well, yes.

If you get off on the Herr Doktor, the leather chaps, and the handcuffs.

Re:No, I disagree

[Anonymous Coward]

And being called Doctor isn't a bad thing :)

But if you're booking a hotel room, ensure that the hotel staff know that you are an academic research doctor, and not a medical doctor. There's nothing worse that being woken up at 3am becuse the lady in room 1704 is feeling a bit funny.

Re:No, I disagree

[deanj]

In the time it would take the person to go from a BS degree to a PhD, they could have worked their way through to company and even gone past that level 17.

Not to mention the years of income, experience for new jobs, etc.

I feel you, my friend....

[HFactor_UM]

I, too, consider myself to be of the same stereotype as yourself. I've always called it pseudo-ADD, call it what you will.

In all seriousness, the best advice that I can give to you is the advice that I didn't listen to when I was preparing to enter into college. FIND YOURSELF - I found myself after being kicked out of college the first time around. I took 3.5 years off, I worked, I spent some time in the military (and am still an active member of the MA Army Nat'l Guard) for better or for worse, I saw what it was like not having a good education and a decent career path.

The reason that I stress this is that I had a *lot* of problems taking classes that weren't directly associated with my major(s) - Mechanical Engineering, Physics, and finally Computer Science. In the general-ed classes I'd basically go when I felt like it, usually sleep through the class anyways, and not do the work. The time spent in 'the real world' was a huge wake up call for me.

The wake up call is only attainable through experience gained via feelings and thought and realizations gained from seeing what it could be like if you don't apply yourself in every class and get the best grade that you could. Bear in mind, I failed out of UMass without a sip of alcohol and/or drugs entering my body, I was straight-edge until the age of 21.2. It was sheer laziness, or, rather, lack of interest in my general ed classes combined with lack of motivation to actually try in them that caused it. Good luck with whatever you do!

Learn to wade through bullshit.

[Mr_Icon]

College is learning to wade through crap, and it will affect your future life in a very significant way, so don't take it lightly. Sure, everyone knows college is bullshit, including the people who will be going through resumes, but everyone appreciates what having a college degree really means; it means that you have proven that you can work in an environment that sets (often senseless) requirements and deadlines.

For most smart people college is a bore. In my 5 years of it (switched degrees and universities mid-way, from child psychology in Russia to special education in USA) I have learned very little that came directly from my courses. However, what I had failed to realize by the time I was in my fourth year, is how much having decent grades will affect your future life. I became so disenchanted with college by my final year that I failed 3 classes in my last semester (I needed them solely for qualifying for scholarships, and didn't need them to graduate). The classes were Kindergarten Education, Intermediate C Programming, and Art Education Methods. These should have been straight A push-overs, but I have failed all three of them by just not bothering to turn in my assignments, even though if you ask my teachers, they will probably tell you that I was one of the brighter students they have ever taught. That came around 5 years later to bite me in the ass when I realized that most graduate schools want a GPA of 3.0 in the last 2 years of college. Due to these three Fs mine is now 2.85. Stupid? Sure. But the stupidity is my own and I warn you not to make this mistake.

So whatever: everyone knows that college is a waste of time and money, and you will probably learn much more outside of it than while attending classes, but the important thing that matters to employers is the fact that you have enough focus and energy to wade through 4+ years of stupid crap, which tells them that you will probably not be a complete boob in their structured corporate environment.

Sure, you can just ignore college, but your venues will be limited. Unless you succeed in starting your own company, or decide to be an independent artist all your life (note, this usually == poor), a college degree will be a key to many doors that would otherwise remain shut.

Note, however, that unless you are just out of college, the actual degree you pick means absolutely dick. Hell, my degree is in Special Education, and I work as a sysadmin, and the guy I work with has his in Political Science. In fact, we have frequently reminisced that we would much rather hire someone with a liberal arts degree who learns IT skills on their own, than someone with an actual degree in the field, as this usually means that the person is able to be creative about their tasks, and not follow some rigid "this is how it's supposed to be, dammit" rules.

So, if you can pull it off, pick a degree that would be fun to do. Hell, I have no regrets whatsoever about majoring in Special Ed, if only because 95% of my classmates were actually attractive, vs the oddballs majoring in ECE/CS. Then, once you have your fun-though-largely-useless-in-real-life degree, go volunteer for some non-profits to build up your resume (if you can afford that, of course). If you have even a smidgen of content in the "previous working experience" that isn't being a pizza delivery boy, the employers will mostly disregard the "education" field as long as a "BS" or "BA" is featured there. IT is one of the fields where most stuff you learn in college is largely inapplicable just a few years after graduation anyway, so let's all cheer for that.

So, to summarize: go to college. Suck it up. Have fun. See real boobs (and I don't mean drunken frat-boys). Lose virginity. Graduate with good grades, and be content that you have just gotten yourself a powerful door-opener that will help you throughout your life.

I hate to agree with this.

[twitter]

I read and like "How to stop worrying and start living." It has much of the same sound advice.

I don't like agreeing with the above post because it's obvious flamebait. "teenage nitwit," is the most obvious attack. The straw men constructed show the author advocates kindness more than he practices it. Garyok, how the hell do you know how our anonymous reader treats people or tells them? How do you know that they are not really clever? As you say, "people deserve respect".

That being said, my best advice is to get over being clever. I gave myself lots of problems before I did this for myself. I was self defeatingly lazy about the way I did my work.

Every little thing counts. More than anything else, your school work shows that you can follow directions and are willing to do things that are boring to get what you want. Companies want employees that do everything they are told, not just the "exciting" things. Yeah, it's stupid but that's the way the world is made. You may not like working for a company that judges people this way, but most are like that and it beats being unemployed.

The most important thing for my technical work was to see good examples. The Given, Find, Solution method is the best way to avoid mistakes and it really saves time even for trivial problems. Trivial problems don't require as much write up. You don't have to be a neat fanatic about it or even have good penmanship, but stating all of your assumptions and referencing equations and other sources makes your mistakes obvious to you when go back to check it. It gives you time to clear your head and avoids transcription problems because you can put your finger on your work and in the book at the same time to check. It also gives you a body of work to take to interviews.

Look for other bright people and work with them. It will help you understand just where you fit into the world and you will understand more. I picked people at random and did well with one or two of them. One of them is still a very good friend and I have no idea why he thinks I'm brighter than he is.

Re:I hate to agree with this.

[HeyLaughingBoy]

Companies want employees that do everything they are told

No, they don't!
Companies -- and by that I mean the real decision makers, not just your boss -- want employees who make them richer. Pretty much all employees do what they're told; the ones that don't are an insignificant number and generally end up fired or marginalized. You can't distinguish yourself by showing up and just doing what you're told.

You're right: he needs to "get over being clever," but also to decide if he wants to excel at something (in this case a job/career) and figure out how to apply his intelligence properly to that task.

Hint: it usually involves going way beyond doing just what you're told. It requires that you figure out the next step and do it, or suggesting an improvement that fits the company's business model, not just something that makes you look like you're trying to be smart.

Problem is that most geeky types -- yours truly included :-( -- take a long time to learn that no one cares if they're smart. People care what you can do for them and that you can do it well without making them feel stupid. That's a hell of a lot more important to your success than just being clever.

You may be smart, but you're still human

[bobbv]

My two points of advice:

1. Don't reinvent the wheel. Just because you're smart, it doesn't mean you're unique or have unique problems. Your issues are those of many people, many smart and not-so-smart people, and their solutions to them can be yours, too. Many of my smart friends get bogged down reinventing the wheel (whether when it's writing software or solving relationship problems), when perfectly good solutions that work for "most people" work well enough for them, too.

2. DO use your talents. Don't be a snob, share the wealth of your intelligence and knowledge. Don't be too good to do something just because it's for "normal" people. If you catch yourself thinking that, that's fear talking. The fear that maybe you're "normal," too. When you find yourself in that position, do whatever it is you're afraid of. You'll find that many times you DO succeed more than others, and other times you don't, which is also useful information to have, since it shows your your limitations. Don't be too proud to have limitations, just know where they are.

And don't let the things you're not so good at (like, say, focusing on something that bores you) get you down. It's OK to have faults, and it's OK to have people see those faults. Being comfortable with your whole self is what's most useful.

Anyone checked the INTP?

[Maljin Jolt]

Very nice troll article freely advertising an email and credit card collector site with fake certificates.

Spammers:1 Slashdot:0.

Thank you michael.

Humankind Realm

[Anonymous Coward]

It all comes down to commitment.
Are you happy with your social status?
(bourgeoise, petty bourgeoise, proletariat)
Did you ever consider how the world might change within a few years?
(nanotechnology, artifial inteligence, fall of capitalism?)
You are special, but so is everyone else, merit is of little relevance, happiness is unreachable but death is certain. Sorry for being a bit pessimistic, but you should never depend on luck, or god. Read some philosophy, poetry, check news more often(Australian, British, South African, Indian). There's 6 billions+ people to improve mankind, don't believe if you defect you shall be missed, or if you stay you will accomplish anything great. The worst that can happen, will probably happen, whatever you do, be lucid of your poor excuse for existence. Do what's important to you, unles you're the only child. :)

Sorry for being too Marxist, I'm still intoxicated by the Manifesto.

Bad news for you

[Anonymous Coward]

Lots of people share these traits. I would think anyone could have a long attention span in subjects that interest them. The bad news is that you'll need to grow up at some point, and get at least moderately good at stuff you don't like doing.

It has taken me a long time to realize that there's nobody out there who's just going around looking for smart people to give large sums of money to. In the real world, you need to pay your dues. You are not entitled to a life of leisure because you are smart. You earn yourself a life of leasure by working for it, and the smartness just gives you a broader range of choices for how you work and how effectively you can work. Remember, even Einstein started off in the patent office.

Despite what others here say, you are unique, and I'm sure you are smart and talented. The trouble is, there are 6 billion of us out there, so even if you have one-in-a-million talents, you're still competing with 6000 other people for that dream job. If one of them has a better work ethic than you do, and applies for the same job, then guess who will get it...

Please read this carefully: make sure your life plan is not to wait until your genius gets discovered.

Look a little harder into it.

[SeaDour]

I had the exact same problem as I graduated high school and entered college as a freshman almost a year ago. My grades were on a steady decline through high school and I seemed to lack any motivation to study for my courses and complete my assignments. But I knew I was smart -- my IQ was 136.

I went into my university's office of disability services, thinking I might have dyslexia because of some difficulty in reading and hoping I could be testing. After a few interviews with myself and my parents, and several months of taking a variety of achievement, aptitude, and psychological tests, I was diagnosed as having Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) and my doctor put me on a prescription for Strattera.

Since then, I feel like I've been reborn. With the medication, I have a renewed motivation to work hard on my studies and I'm able to keep better attention on my reading assignments and professor's long-winded lectures. You claim to have "unlimited attention span" when working on things you enjoy, but your grades seem to reflect otherwise -- I bet you had trouble getting your homework assignments done, didn't you? If I were you, I would look into getting tested for ADD.

On a somewhat related note, I'm an ENTJ.

one thing...

[KrisCowboy]

...never let your studies interfere with your educaton. My CGPA is 5.45/10. But I'm the Teaching Assistant for a course, which is offered only to students with 7+/10. Why? Because while the other guys are busy hogging their lessons, I was playing around with Linux. So, never let your studies interfere with your education. Have fun!!!

Not nessisaraly.

[autopr0n]

I've always been able to "coast" on my intelligence, I had a horrible GPA in high school, but I was able to go the collage I wanted (Iowa State) on the strength of my ACT scores. (bottom 10%, top 7% respectively).

Here, I was able to get through the system with a 2.0+ GPA, enough to graduate. I really wish I had considered a 3.0+ to be the 'minimum' because at this point I'd really like to go to grad school. Alas, I didn't.

That said, he might not have to end up doing something he doesn't want to do, as long as he's willing to work hard then he'll be able to accomplish something. You'll never get anywhere if you aren't willing to work hard. I mean, if you're smart you could (for example) do MIS programming and hate it (Worked for Iowa Student Loan part time as a coder while in school, and it sucked).

If you're willing to take the imitative and work your ass off (The kind of work that gets good grades in school) then you can be successful. Obviously it's possible, especially if you're intelligent.

But yeah, being smart won't get you shit on it's own.

Re:Not nessisaraly.

[Anonymous Coward]

Right. I'm going to make a "collage" dedicated to your illiteracy.

Re:Not nessisaraly.

[Anonymous Coward]

that was going well until i got to your sig. you have to admit, it kind of spoilt the serious points you were making?

Own business

[cubicledrone]

Unusually bright people are not welcome in day to day society.

Popular culture goes out of its way to make people who are intelligent, well-spoken and aware appear to be strange. Very often those people are excluded as quickly as possible from the societal "cocktail party on the patio deck."

The reason for this is that people who are not unusually bright mistakenly believe that intelligent people make them look stupid. The intelligent people must therefore be removed from the stage as quickly as possible, otherwise they might begin to have some political influence which would reduce middle management's ability to stuff their own pockets.

Smart people are the first ones ridiculed, the first ones argued with, the first ones made fun of, the first ones fired. Smart people often have little or no use for office politics, which is why it is so easy for lying cheat fuck middle management bastards to outmanuever them and get them fired.

Bright people usually begin their careers believing the quality of their work will enable them to succeed. What they later find out is that there are two choices: spend your career wading through a swamp of bubbling, wet shit with liar cheat rat bastard fuck "supervisors," or start your own business with a couple of other bright people and bypass the cubicle bullshit factory. The quality of someone's work is absolutely irrelevant to success in the workplace. In fact, the higher the quality of someone's work, the more likely it is they will be fired.

Business encourages office politics and people who are liar cheat fuck bastards always win. Bright people mistakenly believe that being a liar cheat fuck bastard should disqualify someone from competent professional discussion. It does not. In fact, it usually gives the liar cheat fuck bastard an insurmountable advantage. So, the smart people get fired, leaving entire floors full of liar cheat fuck bastards who are paid exorbitant amounts, do no work, yet can't be fired because they have mastered the arts of office politics and being a liar cheat fuck bastard.

Mediocre, visionless, imaginationless, dull people are usually the first to buy a home, first to raise a family, first to get promoted, first to drive the expensive car, first to put in a pool, first to take the vacations. They can't be fired either, because they never say anything except "there's cake in the conference room" and "are you on the morning donut list yet?"

So, if a bright person expects to enter the workplace, expect to find four groups:

1) Upper management, pockets already stuffed with tall dollars, ordering lunch from a golf cart, oblivious

2) Middle management, busily stuffing their pockets with whatever is left over, ordering in from the local delivery deli.

3) Dull, witless drones, talking about their weekend trip to "the river" or "the canyon," what color their new Navigator will be, and the landscaping on their palacial four-acre estate, financed because they have never been fired, ever, and ordering lunch as a group from the menu at the local "yuppie grill" which is the only place in town where one can order an $11 bacon cheeseburger. They can afford it, after all, because they have never, EVER opened a bill without a matching paycheck.

4) One or two smart, intelligent people, quietly working through lunch on a brilliant project, unaware they will be fired a few days before or after it is completed.

I have long since given up on the "job market," because after three and a half years of being unemployed, and over 400 resumes, I believe it to be a festering maggot-infested open sore on society, draining every last shred of joy and wisdom from people's careers, and destroying the educations and communities of millions upon millions of hard-working people.

Re:Own business

[Keck]

Tell us how you really feel, cubicledrone... :)

..But seriously, I agree with the statement that people ought to start their own businesses more than they do; but I take issue with the larger statement that 'intelligent people are not welcome' in society.. I'm an [E|I]NTP like the author, but it's important to recognize the many different kinds of 'intelligence' just beginning to gain wider recognition. If you don't think that being socially intelligent is both valuable, and a legitimate form of intelligence, then you are probably just being self-centric.. Other people DO matter, even if they sometimes do bad things. Guess what, you do too. Not only that, but just because you are not as strong with social issues as you are with technical issues doesn't mean you shouldn't try to develop that side of your person too..

On the whole it sounds like you've been badly abused (not physically, I hope) by the types of people you describe, in the past... Try not to stay jaded forever, if you don't make an effort to find the good in life, even among the bad, you're in for a miserable time.

Re:Own business

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh huh.

Truly bright people know when it is in their best interest not to appear bright.

Maybe too much intelligence isn't your problem...

Re:Own business

[cubicledrone]

There is a difference between being socially intelligent and driven by office politics.

People who engage in office politics have the goal of destroying other people's careers to advance their own.

I'm very socially intelligent. I have an above-average sense of humor and I am well spoken. I have many friends and I get along with people quite well.

I just don't participate in the greed-soaked cesspool of office politics, which disqualifies me from the race to the corner office.

Re:Own business

[Eil]

But you're not bitter or anything, right?

Re:Own business

[Keck]

There is a difference between being socially intelligent and driven by office politics.

Of course. But in my experience, political and professional success is more often a function of a good mix of social and technical abilities, rather than exclusively seeking to hurt other people for your own gain.. In other words, I don't think it's all doom and gloom everywhere as per your description. That said, I reiterate that starting your own business IS a good thing.

People who engage in office politics have the goal of destroying other people's careers to advance their own.

Politics aren't always dirty; it's really just the balancing of more than one person's wants, and it's a reality of the workplace. I agree that it can be really dirty. I despise the people who make it that way. It's usually from a lack of wanting to be honest with others out of fear of confrontation, weakness of character, etc..

I'm very socially intelligent. I have an above-average sense of humor and I am well spoken. I have many friends and I get along with people quite well. I just don't participate in the greed-soaked cesspool of office politics, which disqualifies me from the race to the corner office.

Good! If those are the types of businesses you've had the bad luck to work for, I'd quit too. Your integrity is all you have, you can't justify bad decisions to the next employer, or yourself. But there are businesses that aren't like that, they just usually have 300 employees :) I hope you are either happy with your own business or find a better corporate culture to work in.

Re:Own business

[DerekLyons]

Popular culture goes out of its way to make people who are intelligent, well-spoken and aware appear to be strange. Very often those people are excluded as quickly as possible from the societal "cocktail party on the patio deck."

All that means is that they are hanging out on the wrong patio deck. (Being sociable even in a crowd you largely don't like is however a skill well worth aquiring.) It's quite possible to do decently at work, socializing as needed, yet to reserve your real socializing for like minded people.

I have long since given up on the "job market," because after three and a half years of being unemployed, and over 400 resumes, I believe it to be a festering maggot-infested open sore on society, draining every last shred of joy and wisdom from people's careers, and destroying the educations and communities of millions upon millions of hard-working people.

One suspects your poor attitude and inability, or unwillingness, to play nice with others (manifest throughout your post) has more to do with your lot in life than anything else. When you blame all of your problems on others and take no share for your own, it's sure sign that the problem isn't with the others.

The length of your rant compared to the scant quantity of information you convey is another.

Re:Own business

[cubicledrone]

One suspects your poor attitude

After being lied to, cheated, and fucked over repeatedly. Yeah, I guess that qualifies as a "poor attitude."

inability, or unwillingness, to play nice with others (manifest throughout your post)

No, it's the inability or unwillingness of others to be able to hear and believe the truth about the modern workplace. "Play nice with others" is just another euphemism for "team player" which is, in turn, a euphemism for "don't complain when we dump wet shit all over your career."

Long as you keep eating shit, everyone's happy. Complain, and you suddenly have a "bad attitude" and you're not being a "team player."

you blame all of your problems on others and take no share for your own, it's sure sign that the problem isn't with the others.

Yeah, so if I say "it's all my fault people lied to me and cheated me" then I'm an enlightened team player, right?

The length of your rant compared to the scant quantity of information you convey is another.

What would you like to know? Wanna know about the "permanent" jobs that lasted a few weeks? Jobs that were accepted in place of other offers which were subsequently lost? Wanna know about the "programming" jobs that became "non-programming" jobs days after being hired?

How about the jobs where the first week of work I had no desk, and had to sit next to a copy machine (for hours on end with nothing to do) like a pet? Or maybe the jobs where I was required to attend day-long meetings several times a week where management literally screamed at me (and others) that we weren't getting our work done, then fired us all weeks later?

Perhaps you'd like to hear about the manager who forced us all, as if tormenting a small animal, to do projects the wrong way, only to later complain to upper management about the fact it was done wrong? Would you like to hear about that manager's promotion? Would you like to hear about how that manager fired 200 people the following month, myself included? Would you like to hear about my "performance evaluation" from that manager (used as justification to fire me with two hours notice) who claimed I was "totally incompetent to perform the job of programmer" after personally hiring me because I had years of senior-level experience with dozens of technical references?

How about the four jobs in a row, none of which lasted longer than two months (all department-wide layoffs)? How about the overpriced benefits? Maybe you'd like to hear about co-workers who spent nearly all of their productive time in meetings complaining about me (and others) in months-long successful campaigns to get us all fired?

Would you like to hear about the financial ruin? Or how about the repeated financial ruin? How about the five months where I could only afford one meal a day?

All I did was graduate from college and try to do a good job. That used to be enough. Not any more. I watched a concentrated and sustained effort to destroy my career, and it worked. I am now 100% unemployable.

But you still won't believe me. You'll give middle management the benefit of the doubt, because after all, they're wearing $2000 suits. They must be right.

And right to fuck with the former employees. They're just whining because they're hungry.

Re:Own business

[DerekLyons]

All I did was graduate from college and try to do a good job. That used to be enough. Not any more. I watched a concentrated and sustained effort to destroy my career, and it worked. I am now 100% unemployable.

And reading your writing, it's abundantly clear why you are 100% unemployable.

But you still won't believe me. You'll give middle management the benefit of the doubt, because after all, they're wearing $2000 suits. They must be right.

I'm not giving anyone any 'benifit of the doubt'. Your own writings in this very topic alone show quite clearly where the problem lies. It's not with management.

Re:Own business

[Anonymous Coward]

Your own writings in this very topic alone show quite clearly where the problem lies. It's not with management.

I think you just made his point for him.

Interesting how you asked for specifics, then failed to address a single one of them?

Re:Jesus

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, what the frick?
He's got no syndrome... I'm exactly like him.

Failure is ok, but you wont neccesarily fail

[shurakai]

Many people measure intelligence in many different ways: whether it's through doing lots of school work, knowing lots of people, knowing lots about one topic. I encourage you to travel, find yourself, and not worry about failing! I fail all the time, and each time I do, I try to find what I did wrong so I wont do it again. Here's hoping you have a wonderful life!

Regus

[Anonymous Coward]

In the words of a great, but fictonal character from a British television series:

"Give your love freely and expect none in return."

When I was 18...

[TapeCutter]

When I was 18 my Dad knew nothing, he was so uninformed and old fashioned about the world and life in general. I have talked to him on occasions and tried to educate him and it has paid off. Now that I am 21 I simply can't belive how much he has learn't in just 3 years! ;o)

that is sooo true..

[wilbrod]

First I want to say that I'm happy to see this topic on /. as I assume a lot of people like him are visiting this site.

Then here is my story. I use to get good marks at school without having to do homework at home. Even at college I was getting good scores in classes that didnt require any time from me at home. Then I tried going to the University. What the guy from the previous post said if absolutely true. Do not waste your time at school if you are not ready to work. I was partying a lot and tought I could go thru everything easily w/o putting effort into it. Guess what... I failed all but one of the five classes I was attending and got a "D" in the one i passed heh.

Trust me .. I'm not a jackass.. I have always been in the top 5 at school and even if I know/think myself that I'm probably smarter than a lot of people, that is a shared idea among people I know.

The university thing was 2 years ago .. I though about it and I think the timing was just bad. Too much drinking .. too many friends and unfortunately too much self confidence in my school capabilities. I learned a lot about myself after that episode of my life.

So I was there with a computer science degree from college (3 years long) looking for a job in something related to my degree. I knew what I was able of and I was living in a foreing region in Quebec/Canada. All I could find there were jobs at 10$CAD an hour and I wasn't going to let an employer use my knowledge for such a small salary. I kept looking around and finally joined the canadian army. They gave me a rank promotion because of my degree and started at 43 000/year CAD.

I had some working experience in the IS world, I thought I would love it, and I did. The point is that I was doing too much computer at work and didnt feel like using or playing on mine after work. So I was just bored on the computer at night. Now that I am in the army .. I do a relax job wich I enjoy (working outside, traveling, got to learn english, lot of friends across canada.. etc) and when I go home at night, I am now able to use my computer as a hobby again.

The point: Find a job you enjoy.. it doesn't have to be a programming job.. or sysadmin job. As long as you enjoy it you will be happy and have a great life. If you are like me and like money.. make sure that the salary is good. I don't regret anything and if I was to start over... I would just put more effort into schoolwork at University and I'm sure that would have lead me somewhere interesting. I might go back to school later .. I don't know.. All I know is that I'm happy the way I live right now.

What I did for education...

[jb_02_98]

What did you do for education? - Quoted from article head. Well, I found a really smart dog and learned from it. :-) (see recent article here, too lazy to do html right now, sorry) http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/1 2/1845213&mode=thread&tid=134 Actually, the dog method does work. The article talks about how the dog learns by reasoning. Don't just learn something and think you know it all. Everything that you hear something new or differant, analyze it, and study it. Everyday you should have something new to learn. You will quickly recieve the benifits of that.

Do something

[Zarf]

Be bright, be humble, be active. Do something. Make something happen. Focus, dicipline yourself, you must focus and sacrifice your self before the alter of one single goal... only then will you turn bright, clever, and gifted into something they write stories about in history books.

Or, you could just goof off. What's on TV tonight?

get tested

[gminks]

If you don't like school, but you like to learn, figure out why you didn't like school.

If you have learning disabilities, you need to find out how to deal with them so you can deal with college

Also, realize that you will go through stages of really doubting if you should even go to college. This is normal and you have to learn to deal with the feelings. At least that is what I keep telling my daughter who is starting college in the fall.

Hmmmmmm, uhhhhh...

[St.Anne]

I would like to hear from fellow /.ers that consider themselves unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' and how you have dealt with it

I find that giving the people who need to be around my 'illuminosity' sun glasses seems to keep their misery index lower ;-)

Let's see

[AdamHaun]

All right. So you're an intelligent slacker who wants to get away with not doing anything you don't want to do. Okay, I can relate. Unfortunately for both of us, unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth you probably won't have much success. Allow me to suggest a few compromises that might make your life easier.

If you want a nice job(and if you're going to college, I hope that's what you want), then you might want to:

* Drop the elitism
"Does not fulfill potential", as one poster put it, is a synonym for "useless". If you want to be anything other than a hermit, you need to learn how to adapt yourself to the world. This doesn't mean surrendering your individuality and becoming a tool of The Man, but it does mean that you will have to do things you don't want to do. Trying to pass yourself off as too intelligent and "non-traditional" for everyday life is going to do nothing but piss people off. How would you feel if someone told you that they were too smart to deal with you?

* Figure out what you want to do
Being interested in many things is good, but if you want a fun job you're probably going to have to specialize in something too. Make sure that what you major in is what you actually want to do. Internships and co-ops are one approach to doing this. You should also consider what kind of standard of living you want. If you can't handle $30k/yr and no possibility of advancement, then perhaps that degree in Jamaican Basket Weaving is not for you.

As far as learning goes:

* Get used to doing things you don't want to do
Most(all?) decent school require you to take a core set of courses before you get a degree. Each major will of course have its own set of requirements. Some of these will not be fun. Deal with it. You cannot study anything in depth without having to deal with a few unpleasantries. More importantly, it'll make you a better person. Every new thing you learn makes you better at learning in general. Someone else said it better than I did:

"It's weird how when I look back at college, I find my best compsci

teachers were, indeed, the most literate teachers. There was one guy
who read all of Dickens every year. Another guy taught himself a new
language every year. I remember I happened to be in one of his
courses during the year he was learning Latin and had to put up with
loads of these weird Latin quotations he'd put everywhere. Flash
forward ten years and I'm stuck in a super-intense Latin 101 course
for grad students who need to learn a foreign language pronto,
and I realized why my little bald compsci teacher was so gungho for
conjugation and for quoting Virgil at every turn: you realize that
in some weird -- perhaps even unconscious -- way everything that you
force yourself to learn *outside* of your chosen "track" actually
feeds *into* that track and makes you wild, creative, and utterly
un-fucking-predictable. You scare yourself, scare your friends, and
you realize, damn, dude, just chill. Cool it on the caffeine and
espresso because if you get too juiced with the creative jazz -- if
you make too many connections -- leaping from liberal arts shit to
comp-sci shit to physics shit -- it's almost overwhelming. The more
you learn, the more connections you can make -- and the more
creative you become.

On a more practical level, learning to do things you don't like in college will make it easier to do so at other, more important times.

* Grow as a person
While it's fasionable on Slashdot to lament one's school years as a waste of time, the truth is that once you graduate you won't have as much free time as you used to. A full time job will take a very large chunk of your energy, energy that you had previously put into hobbies and leisure. Spend your college years making friends, trying new activities, and learning how to live as an adult. If there's anything you've always wanted to do, like play a musical instrument or le

Re:Let's see

[cubicledrone]

you need to learn how to adapt yourself to the world. This doesn't mean surrendering your individuality and becoming a tool of The Man

Yes it does. Why is it so common for statements to be followed by their own contradictions? "Adapt yourself to the world" is a euphemism for "Wal-Mart and a broom."

Re:Let's see

[AdamHaun]

No, it doesn't. What it means is that, if you want to deal with other people, you're going to have to meet them halfway. It's both unfair and unreasonable to expect other people to deal with a prima donna "genius". The end result of this adaptation is not Wal-Mart, it's getting past the work you don't like in order to get to the stuff you do.

Put it this way. I'm an engineer. My boss walks in and hands me a project that I don't really want to do. Do I:

A. Turn up my nose, refuse to do the work, and demand something different.
B. Take the work, but remind my boss that I'm too good for this sort of thing.
C. Try to get my coworkers to do the work. After all, they're just a bunch of drones, right? They're perfect for it!
D. Take the work and do well on it, knowing that when a really cool project comes around I'll be more likely to get it.

You can't live life without compromises. What you want is to pick the compromises that benefit you the most. If you want to deal with the world, sometimes you have to play by its rules.

Re:Let's see

[cubicledrone]

My boss walks in and hands me a project that I don't really want to do.

Now, suppose those are the only types of projects offered, and the boss is using them to try and get the employee to quit (so they don't have to pay extra benefits).

Shall we adapt ourselves or become a tool of the Man?

What you want is to pick the compromises that benefit you the most.

But you have given no option to "choose" a compromise. Your only option is to "Take the work and do well on it." There is no option to maximize benefit. There is no negotiation or compromise. The options for the employee are "to do as they're told or risk 'annoying' the boss," whereupon the boss will begin the process of firing them.

Despite the fact they require highly educated, "self-starter" candidates with page after page of state-of-the-art accomplishment on their resume, companies want employees who will sit quietly and do as they are told.

Re:Let's see

[AdamHaun]

Now, suppose those are the only types of projects offered, and the boss is using them to try and get the employee to quit (so they don't have to pay extra benefits).

If your situation is hopeless, then of course you leave. That wasn't what I was talking about, though.

But you have given no option to "choose" a compromise. Your only option is to "Take the work and do well on it." There is no option to maximize benefit. There is no negotiation or compromise. The options for the employee are "to do as they're told or risk 'annoying' the boss," whereupon the boss will begin the process of firing them.

I think you're missing the point. A job is, by nature, something that you do for someone else, whether it's your boss or your customers. When you sign an employment contract, you agree to do what someone else tells you in exchange for money. If you don't like that, you're free to leave both the job and the money. Any negotiation as what kind of work you'll be doing needs to be dealt with before you sign the contract.

Look at it from the other direction. Is your company allowed to suddenly decide that it doesn't like paying you and still expect you to work?

Despite the fact they require highly educated, "self-starter" candidates with page after page of state-of-the-art accomplishment on their resume, companies want employees who will sit quietly and do as they are told.

As opposed to what? *Someone* has to do the work. The idea is that you find a job where "what you're told" resembles "what you want" enough to make things pleasant.

Look, you can come up with disaster scenarios all day long, but the point I made in my original post is still valid. If you are absolutely unwilling to compromise on anything, then you can expect to get nothing out of your dealings with other people.

Re:Let's see

[cubicledrone]

Any negotiation as what kind of work you'll be doing needs to be dealt with before you sign the contract.

What contract? Employers don't offer contracts. They don't have written job descriptions. They have nothing. You sign nothing. They make no promises, and they take full advantage by firing you a few weeks after your four interviews.

Employment negotiations are usually:

"Here's the job. 40% under market salary. No benefits. Layoffs already announced for next quarter. Take it or leave it."

End of negotiation.

Is your company allowed to suddenly decide that it doesn't like paying you and still expect you to work?

Sure. No raises. Weekends. Unpaid overtime. Benefit cuts. Below average salaries. No bonuses. No guaranteed salary. Happens all the time.

The idea is that you find a job where "what you're told" resembles "what you want" enough to make things pleasant.

No such thing. Companies aren't interested in what employees want. In fact, employees who make suggestions are immediately promoted to the top of the layoffs list as "troublemakers" and people who aren't "team players." (Team player is corporate-speak for "agree with us even when we are wrong.")

Look, you can come up with disaster scenarios all day long

This isn't fiction. I've seen it at every single full-time job I have ever had except one. I've seen people gainfully employed at 9AM literally shoved/thrown bodily from the building at 11:15AM.

People always make a point of "meeting people halfway." Yet the liars and the cheats never have to meet anyone. They are allowed to go on ruining people's lives and destroying their careers with absolutely no limits whatsoever. Anyone who complains isn't being a "team player" and is next out the door.

Companies are so false any more it isn't even worth arguing about. Getting hired is the economic equivalent of Magellan's Voyage, yet getting fired is as simple as ordering a sandwich. We even have television shows now glorifying arbitrary layoffs. Firing people is trendy. The suffering of the powerless gets good ratings.

It's UNFAIR. It's WRONG.

Be passionate

[Ignignot]

One good thing to do is to be passionate about something. Anything that really grabs you, go out and grab it back. First off, it'll make your life much less blah because you have something that excites you. For me it's a lot of things, and I imagine that's the same for many people. Pick up a musical instrument. Learn how to cook Indian food. Take up rock climbing. Practice ju jitstu. Whatever. It'll serve several purposes - first as an outlet for your stress. Second it'll make you interesting, whether with the opposite (or same) sex or when you're looking for a job. Thanks if you've read this far down in the comments ;-)

Make your own path

[humankind]

This is a great topic. Not because of the subject matter, but the in-between psychology that comes into play here.

Let's face it, most of the greatest minds of all time withdrew into themselves; strived to be more than what was expected of them because of the adversity they faced and/or their own insecurities. It goes without saying that a lot of people will find your query narcissistic and arrogant and fire off appropriate retorts.

I haven't read the responses. This is such a cool thread that I feel compelled to offer my own commentary untainted by what others may have said.

First off, who gives a fuck what anybody else thinks. If you believe in yourself, fuck everyone else. 99.9% of the time people seek to label those as arrogant, anyone who might appear to be more self-confident than themselves. That's not your problem.

This whole argument isn't about intelligence and wit. It's about self-confidence. The reality is that you're not exceptionally gifted in the physical sense. You can't do anything any other humanoid can do. But you may be more aware than most that the limitations imposed by society are not insurmountable. That's what's special -- not you.

If you believe in yourself and have been able to demonstrate to those around you that you can excel beyond the mundane, then you don't need to prove anything to anybody other than yourself. What you do with your career is peripheral to what you want to do for yourself. All the great people of the world followed their own path, and they felt confident that whatever they were doing, be it investment banking or brick-laying, they were the best of their kind. That's the way to do things.

Figure out what makes you happy. If you really want to believe in yourself, fuck college. If it doesn't jive with your dreams, don't do it. College will only serve to make you conform to the roles that others on the assembly line think will guarantee them a career. If you truly are "special" then no matter what you do, you will succeed. The easy way out is to follow the path of everyone else.

Re:Make your own path

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly.

If you are truly that smart the best advice anyone can give you is to completely ignore 90% of the posts in this thread. Everyone here is trying to show you how to temper your intelligence so you can smoothly transistion into the office world. There is some wisdom in that. But succeeding in the business world is by far NOT a virtue in and of itself. And besides why in the world should you handicap yourself for people without your gifts?

Want to really get the most out of that brain power? Blaze a trail. Don't even think about holding back. Unleash the power of your thought unto this unsuspecting world. Set the world on fire with the ferociousness of your "unique ability" made manifest.

The world will not turn for the meek, socially compatible office worker. In fact, screw that guy with his white picket fence, his three kids, his morgatge, and his toy trains. You don't wanna be that guy.

Want a primer on your life: Crime and Punishment. Great people must be willing to do great things, without the slightest hint of regret or remorse. Just do me a favor... don't go out killing pregnant ladies anytime soon ;)

I guess I'm somewhat similar

[dummondwhu]

I'm somewhat similar to the description in the oringial question, except I don't think I'd ever refer to myself as "uniquely bright", and I'm certainly no genius.

My similarity occurs in the breadth of interests I have, and the approach I took in high school and college. I am working as a software engineer and am pretty happy doing it. But my first degree was in criminal justice. I enjoyed that just as much. I think, as the original poster, I like learning stuff, but I didn't really like school so much. Don't get me wrong. I didn't have any bad experiences in school and I didn't dislike it, mostly. But, my grades *definitely* could have been better. My approach to college was, that I'd pay attention and do well in the courses I was interested in or when I perceived a course as being "important" to my career interests. This sounds like a crappy attitude, but I firmly believe that there's no point in spending time doing something you don't want to, just because you're *supposed* to. Of course, this doesn't apply to the normal obligations in life and all. If you have a family or other obligations, then of course, you better be showing up for work and have a good job and all that.

It all comes down to how much you want to trade to be able to pursue your interests. I'm an avid golfer and have *seriously* considered leaving a good job to pursue golf as a career. I'd make a fraction of what I do now, but its almost like I wouldn't be able to stand living out my life never having tried it out. And it has nothing to do with not liking my job or not having an aptitude for it or whatever. Its like a constant pursuit of happiness or something. Its probably more of a personality flaw than anything, because even if I completely changed careers to pursue another interest, I'd probably be looking for some other path in a few years anyway. Hell, I even considered going back to college part time and getting a degree in history, just because it interests me. That's something I probably wouldn't really pursue because it's something I can do on my own. I'm also interested in learning languages and writing a novel. There's not enough time to do all the crap I'd like to try out.

So, I guess that my only advice to the original poster is do whatever the hell you want that makes you happy, doesn't affect anyone else negatively (like don't be mugging people or something :-), and gets you what you want out of life. Oh, and I'd probably also avoid going around and telling people how bright you are, because people have a knack for figuring out that sort of thing on their own.

Re:A few words of advice from someone who understa

[ahriman]

Holyhead High School in Anglesey, and Coleg Menai , both of which are in Wales, UK. I will attend University at either Edinburgh or UMIST, assuming I get some sleep tonight and do some work tomorrow. Hmm mod_rewrite has captured my attention.

I suppose it would be prudent to point out that I do not assume to be intelligent beyond all others (just the majority), and am well aware that if I am to succeed and live a reasonable life then compromise is really the only door open to me. What would have been more prudent would have been to put this in my original comment ;)

What I am up too, lessons learned

[AEC216]

Well, I graduated from the Univ. Missouri-Rolla with a degree in Comp Sci in 2002. Took me 5 months to find a job. Got laid off 2 weeks before my first year. Took a 2 mothes contract job from Lucent. They cut my contract out from under me after a month because I made the mistake of letting them see the work I had done. It was good enough to for what they wanted so, "Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out." Stayed unemployed for 8 months. Tried to get 'a job' instead of a programming position but that Comp Sci degree was a big killer. Pretty much nobody thought I would stay. Which, they were right. Got myself back into school. Now, I will be have a Master's in Accounting to go with the Comp Sci degree. Still have 62 hours to go on that though. Out of a complete fluke, I am now a poker dealer at a large casino in Missouri and really enjoy it. Hours suck, but the people (ie women) make the time go by smoothly. I'm only 24 myself. There have been many fine sayings and ideas presented. My advice is to be persistent and keep working towards a goal. Any goal is fine, just keep at it. Good luck. PS. Gambling is a tax on people bad at math!

FINALS IN JUNE!?!?!

[autopr0n]

Dear god man, what facist state do you live in!?

Re:FINALS IN JUNE!?!?!

[geniusj]

New York has finals in June.. So does New Jersey and a lot of the east coast. It wasn't until I moved to Colorado that the school year began and ended a month earlier.

Re:FINALS IN JUNE!?!?!

[lambadomy]

It's called "the quarter system". All through college I had finals in June. But school never started until the end of september, sometimes even october 1st.

Re:FINALS IN JUNE!?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

The Finals have always been in June.

Being smart hurts...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ignorance is bliss... Do you know anyone who is smart and happy? If you are smart you have to put up with having mediocrity thrust upon you.

Do yourself a favor go on a drinking binge and kill off part of your brain... It will save you grief in the long run.

If you did not like school, I doubt you will like what is next...

Develop a Mask

[jtpalinmajere]

Much like the comment on the front page says, I would have to first assume that you have an INTP class personality. Go google it to find all you want about it. Needless to say, I am also one of the few belonging to that personality class. I had difficulty much like you in highschool and early college... and even to some degree in my postgraduate work. The thing that got me by was a proffessor (also of that same personality class) who started working with me about developing an "outside world" mask.

Basically, I have had to engineer a personality complete with social and personal mannerisms that I can use in the "real world." You'll simply have to develop this if you want to get hired and lead a seemingly "normal" life. Otherwise you'll find yourself alone (not always a bad thing) and very much unapproachable/unlikeable and it could have a detrimental effect on you're life in countless many ways. You just have to face the fact that this world is an extrovertive "normal" world (read: filled with extrovertive "normal" people) and you have to live among and in some cases WITH them (ever plan on getting married some day?... yah, personality counts there too.)

I consider myself to be unusually intelligent.

[Anonymous Coward]

Without making up specific numbers, let me make do with suggesting that I'm "1 in a million".

Here's what I've done with my life.

I've managed to screw up the few relationships I've had, either through my own fault or somehow falling together with true bitches. Either way, what that says about me is nothing to brag about.

I've never made more than $32,000 in any given year, and that only once... other than that, I've never broken the 30k barrier.

I've managed to get fired or laid off from every job I've ever had. I'm 30 years old, too, not 17. One of the more notable jobs (the last, in fact), I lost because I was under the incredibly stupid illusion that my performance mattered, when it had nothing to do with my job retention. The social and political details of said job still elude me, but being a "friendlier, more liked" (and I mean liked, not likable, there is a difference I think) would probably had done the trick. The polite, curt, slave like hell to get things done attitude wasn't a winner.

I'm unable to understand people, or really have any friends. I'm generally unhappy. Ever try to make conversation at work? I simply can't, and the conversation other's initiate is insipid. 10% misunderstood politics/world events, 30% pop music, 30% movies, 30% social gossip. Feel free to substitute 15-20% video games for movies in a younger crowd. I can't relate to any of that.

Imagine having a fight with you're girlfriend, and only being able to react rationally. Rationality is the tool I use to (try to) solve all the problems I care to try solving, and it's perversely incapable of doing such in those circumstances. Short of the neurological expertise to make her brain behave like mine, there is nothing that can be said that will defend you, make her stop, make it feel any better either for you or her, or keep it from happening in the future. I'm told that she hates me because I won't leave, and that she wants me to leave because she hates me. Asking her why doesn't elicit any more sensable answers, asking her how to fix things for her elicits "I don't want it to be fixed". I don't really want another girlfriend at this point, but assuming I do the outlook is bleak. I don't expect much better from anyone else.

I have bad credit. Not so smart you say? I knew I was ruining it at the time, I just didn't care. Not so sure I do now. Except that, with my miniscule earning potential, this detail means I'll never own a decent home or car.

I have communication problems even with people who would otherwise seem to be of above average intelligence. Many times during my life, I've been asked to do something (usually at work), and I would complete the task, and make remarks to that effect. I would say "I just finished blah-blahing, is there anything else you need me to do?". That person/manager might say "I told you to blah-blah, now go do it right." 3 or 4 exchanges like this, me biting my tongue so as to not inject too much sarcasm, and they'd not get it. I'd repeat the same thing they had just said, but somewhere in their brains something was misfiring and they weren't hearing it. How do I know it was them, and not me? Not all such people have been assholes, and one in particular apologized only minutes later, saying that it just wasn't clicking as I spoke the word. Other times, someone else would be present, and point it out (strangely when they said it, it would be "heard").

In short, intelligence only allows me to see just how pathetic it all is. Worse, it won't prevent me from embarrassing myself by hitting the submit button (though it does suggest checking the "post anonymously" box).

Re:I consider myself to be unusually intelligent.

[Interested Spectator]

I'm curious. I got that you were not good at communicating with others, yet you're post is the longest one I've read. Do you just have bad luck? I have a friend who had bad credit. He decided to take care of it, and he did. He focused on paying off his credit. It took him a long time, but he did it.

I also know some one who is socially "handicapped". He just doesn't get it. But, we hound on him to make conversation, and not sarcastic, trying to be witty, conversation, but just chit chat. I have problems with conversation sometimes, also. My mom's advice was to just ask people questions about themselves and listen. That usually does the trick. Sorry, didn't mean to start spitting out advice, but your post seemed pretty sincere, and I just wanted to say something about it.

Re:I consider myself to be unusually intelligent.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

Without sounding arrogant, I'm generally pretty good at figuring out what a person is about, and much more quickly than they could answer. Not that I haven't been wrong. But it's hard to listen,

It's more than that though, their words seem slow. Sounds silly, doesn't it? Then again, so do my own. No decent way to measure it, but I think words easily 10 times as fast as I could ever hope to speak them. All that said, I still need to try. It's just that "all" that I wrote is barely the tip of the iceburg.

Re:I consider myself to be unusually intelligent.

[Anonymous Coward]

Your writing skills obviously aren't up to the task of clarifying how you are and are not great.

Re:I consider myself to be unusually intelligent.

[snatchitup]

Even better, he forgot to check "post anon.." on the followup.

Good luck John. Either you'll make a great novelist for Scandinavians (they eat that depression shit right up), or, you really are that pathetic.

Re:I consider myself to be unusually intelligent.

[fferreres]

Mhh...

My first suggestion would be, find someone you like as a boss, someone that inspires, and manage to fully trust him (even though you may disagree 80% of the time, but whoi will more than likely get where he wanted to be), try not to understand him. If you cant find one, keep trying.

Second thing, read "How to make friends and influence people", I read when I was 15 and though I will NOT help you make friend, I will clearly laid out that LOGIC does not help. People want to be right, not correct. People have a large set of "premises" you do not share. Everyone has a hidden agenda whether they know it or not. And the best part? People are easy to deal with!!! After you read that, you can start thinking for yourself what the fuck friendship is. And my conclusion is that it is choice. I choose my friends, and dont have a rule. And you'll never really know who your real friends are. Just be prepared for disappointment...and the opposite (THAT GUY HELPED ME?). Friendship is not static, just are you are not the same as you yesterday.

Last thing is, if you do not want to communicate, then don't! Don't feel forced! Don't feel unhappy if you don't have friend. First of all, try to love yourself, and to enjoy your mistakes. That's the only way to start loving anything. And the best lesson I learned is you dont have to accept you on credits earned, you just DO IT. With time you learn to do it with other people. You will see it helps a lot to not judge every situation, with time, you'll know how to judge with enough data, and with enough perspective to compare averages, not individual datasets of information. You are dealing with black boxes, you need VERY large datasets to judge yourself and other, so dont get stuck case by case judging!

When I started thinking LESS (judging less), and delaying judgement to reasonable amounts of time (6 months, or more), I started accomplishing more. Drone yourself in the short term after you've made a decision, it works most of the time! Delaying rejudgement gets you where you CAN be (wanted + saw a chance). In the short term, get aboslutely practical, take the shortest, least ilustrated ways to get where you decided. Rething matters only once in a while (yearly).

Hope it helps in any way. I've read a lot of stuff that did not help me. I tryed this more practical approach, you cannot try to evaluate everything/everyone each and everytime new information is given, not even yourself. It doesn't help, it does not offer real insight, you WILL be wrong most of the time (about yourself, others, subjects).

Last advice, do not make more connections than you can handle, especially if you are the realtime evaluating (judging) type. It will lead your braqing to a massive state of "rich" but utterly wrong connection that will require a lot of work to clean out.

rules for smart people...

[greywire]

1. You are not as smart as you think you are.
2. You may be smarter than most people, but don't act like it. The hordes of dumb people don't like people who act smart (whether they are or not).
3. If you want to have friends, learn to like dumb people.
4. Find one thing you have a passion for, and excell at that. You may have to work a "day job" that you hate until your chance comes along to do what you like.
5. If you must have a "companion", find somebody either like yourself, or at least somebody that wont constrain you - you need your freedom and solitude to be creative.
6. Dont automaticaly dismiss the usefullness of certain substances. Caffeine can be very usefull, as can certain other things (ahem) in helping you both focus on your projects and other times clear you mind for rest. Remember, we're smart people, and we should know how to use things to our advantage...

You are not a unique, beautiful snowflake

[pvera]

If you are bright then you will know better that to be overt about it. There is a lot of people that are insecure about their intellectual level, and see people (real or imaginary) that are "smarter" than them as a real threat.

If you are in school, I would stick to the normal curriculum and feed the hunger for a challenge elsewhere. Either study extra stuff for pleasure, or find an outlet to burn that energy. If you try to show off in school (which does not mean having the top grades, you can score high and still not come out as a nerd) then you will be ostracized. Also, do not under any circumstance skip grades. Intelligence is just one aspec, you still need emotional development, and is hard as hell to mature when everybody around you is a year or two older. I was skipped one grade in elementary school and one in high school, which meant I was a college freshman at 16 years old. It sucked in social terms.

You also need to get used to the idea that if you are really *that* smart, then most of the people aren't, so start learning to be patient and tolearant when people can't grasp things you can undestand instantly. It is not that *they* are slow, it is that you are too fast. Everybody loves the smart guy that gives a helping hand to others, but you will be universally scorned if you don't share the wealth.

By the way, Franklyn Lloyd Wright once said that it is hard to be humble when you are great :-)

Sounds like an INTP to me...

[SQL Error]

Bah! NNTP or nothing!

Re:Sounds like an INTP to me...

[cynical kane]

I've always been an SMTP person. Or is it HTTP?

abandon all hope

[Anonymous Coward]

Believe me, you will never, ever, be happy in life. Suicide is probably the best way to go.

You, four years later

[chreekat]

I felt the same way you did at the end of high school. I'll tell you why: high school sucks. It is the worst possible way for everyone, and especially brainiacs, to get prepared for life. At the end of high school, I figured I could do anything, and that my intelligence gave me special privileges. Sure, my GPA wasn't awesome, but that's because I knew better to dirty my hands in this system for inferiors.

College came around and crushed, humbled, and rebuilt me. Now, rather than SAYING I can do anything I want to, I actually CAN do many of the things I want to, and I also know what those things ARE. I found out that lots of people who didn't seem 'smart' in high school are actually really brilliant, and that my smarts don't mean anything unless I apply them. I learned the world will not give me a cookie every time I tell myself, "but I'm smarter than these people!" I learned that I can't wing any and all tests that come my way (I just got smashed in a Numerical Analysis final.. sheesh). Haha, that reminds me.. if you go to college, do your homework! Man!

The Army bases its ad campaign on that sort of transformation. I'm sure there is truth to it. The bottom line is that you have to _get out and see what life is really like_. Throw everything from high school away. Realize that you are NOT one of the elite 2%, or if you are, that .02 * (population of world) is a big fucking number.

-b

Re:You, four years later

[Rick BigNail]

Hehe, like you I almost failed Linear Algebra in college.

action

[Anonymous Coward]

after reading all the posts up to this point, it's clear to me once again that there are only 3 opinions about anything in this world. encouraging, discouraging and indifferent.

here's some more indifference...

action...that's what you need to focus on. consistent action over time produces results, happiness, friends and good health.

i only wish these posts included age. at 12 i thought i was pretty smart. by 18 i didn't think about it much. at 22 i had been deeply humbled by a degree in mechanical engineering. by 26 i was back up again, thinking i had something special. here i am at 31 with little preference for anything but passing intelligence in my peers. it's attitude that makes a good boss, partner and employee. it's consistency that makes a dependable person. it's passion for your life and work that produces something worthwhile.

and if anyone else is reading this drivel, don't forget to laugh out loud for no reason tomorrow. it's good for you. and me.

Serious advice: I'll take you seriously.

[Interested Spectator]

Yeah, I don't think you're alone on this one. I remember wishing someone would give me some real advice. Here's what I think.

• Read more books
• Cook more meals
• Jog in the morning
• Drink less beer, not none, but a little less
• Start a business, anything, something that generates revenue
• Get a job, even in school, or participate in sports
• DEFINITELY go to a college, sounds like you should go to a smaller school (I went to UT at Austin, I would've chosen a smaller school looking back)
• Live on your own, it's scary
• Travel when you can
• Bad realtionships are obvious, don't ignore the obvious and end them when you have them

As I think about this, these are the things that I would tell my younger self, but, I REALLY enjoyed my younger days and going through what you're about to go through. I think I look back fondly because as I was going through college and all my experiences, I kept reminding myself that one day, I would look back and wonder how it went so fast. So, as I look back now, I wonder how it went so fast, but then I remember enjoying every minute of it. I can't help but smile and look forward to my future...and my own baby's future. Good luck. And remember, one day, you'll look back and wonder how it went so fast.

Reminds me of myself

[Vexorg_q]

In junior high. Let me tell you how I dealt with it, to great success.

1. Take all of the hardest classes you can, and do as well as you can in them. I did this in high school, and I rose to the challenge, and succeeded. You may not be motivated to work hard, or remain interested, but thats a personal issue. Shut up and stop whining, and just do well, as best you can.

2. Find projects that interest you, think of things you dont know how to do. You said you like SQL, write some code with php/mysql that does something cool, for example. Or maybe go teach yourself iptables, or C++, or what have you. Think of something you dont know how to do, learn to do it, and stick with it, its work, but in the end its really fun.

3. Try a whole bunch of new things. Join your school's honor society, student council, student government, etc. Join other clubs, and try picking up a new sport. And try as hard as you can at all of these activities. They're all work, hard work, but you are clearly intelligent and good enough to handle it, so just do it. You wont really have another oppurtunity in your life to try all these things.

These three techniques brought me from being just an above average, unmotivated, bored student in junior high to an exceptional motivated and mutlitalented student in hgih school. Your milage may vary, but this has worked for me.

Crumby student, but love to learn

[mrtnh]

I was always a terrible student. Spent most of my education daydreaming in class. Did all my real learning on my own by studying other peoples code, reading books, and writing code for fun. Worked like a maniac at every job I had -- tried to make each job a valuable learning experience. At the end of each experience I asked myself why I wasn't rich yet even though I did great work. (Hint: money == great_business_model and money != great_code) End result is I'm happy, and I'm worth over 8 figures.

Re:Crumby student, but love to learn

[Anonymous Coward]

this comment is so totally and utterly unhelpful it boggles my mind.

Attention Spam

[Thakandar2]

If you want a chance at any job, you got to do things that don't interest you. Any job, doesn't matter.

I love to write and publish stories. There is nothing better than staying up for 36 hours as one complete short story that I love is typed out. This also means I still have to write submission letters, edit my stuff, talk to editors, rewrite alot of my material, and get all the other chores done around the house so I dont get staph when I get a paper cut.

I love to tinker with computers and did a short stint as a small business computer consultant on the side. When I worked on computers I got to build networks, complete computers from scratch, investigate problems and troubleshoot, and test machines with Quake3 (because compiling spreadsheets and FPS's are directly related). THis also means I have to occasionally reload OS's, do paperwork and expense reports on new equipment, deal with people who think Unix is Yiddish, and other metononous tasks.

If you only do what you're interested in you will have 100 projects all started and left unfinished, with 101 angry people wondering what you ever did for them.

Dropped out

[xrayspx]

I have learned that in the Adult World, Uniquely Bright only gets you beat up, or at least makes people loathe you.

I dropped out of high school 12 years ago, with promises of good colleges. I spent a couple of years just hacking and hacking, when I turned 18, I spent the next 6 years working hard (labor, warehouse forklift driver type stuff, which is still the most fun I've had ever). I worked my ass off doing nights at the warehouse and days in a local computer store. Then I moved into a full time web-admin position in 99. Through hard work and intuitive understanding of "how networks are", I have become a reasonably successful administrator.

However, believing yourself to be "Uniquely Bright" at any stage of your career is a recipe for disaster. There are many people smarter, faster, and more prepared. You have to make your own way in the world. If you own your future the sense of accomplishment is unmatched. If you go to school and come out the other end before realizing that you're just like a thousand other Applicants, well, that's a mistake that will lead to boredom.

My advice is that everyone should have a laborious job for a time. A job that would get you looked down on by many people (and it will. Don't worry, don't need 'em). Make it yours, make friends, learn to have fun. Then you appreciate that cushy desk job with that $700 chair that much more. Plus you never, ever, have a sense of entitlement again, and you never, ever, become the type of person to look down their nose at anyone for anything as trivial as "class".

Beat them at their own game

[Aggrav8d]

Well if you're really all that (and fries on the side) then the thing to do would be to find a way to take a huge number of classes (or finish extra fast). For example, you could use polyphasic sleep to give you enough time to party and do your studying. Also if you show up for the starts and ends of classes then you're there long enough to hand in/get next assignments. the time you save will enable you to overlap classes, study at your speed (instead of sleeping in class). Of course you can still meet up with ppl at the ends of class, trade notes, help them study, and be social like that. I'm sure others will post ideas on how you could do better than average.

A beautiful mind

[Anonymous Coward]

is probably all you've got.
You've never done anything special, but your mother thinks you proably can.

You're most likely ugly, insecure, nearsighted, overweight, and gay.
Your only solcial interation is /.
You are just beginning to realize that your life is going to be a droll, barren, lonely nondescript existence and when it's over no one will mourn.

Deept therapy or drugs are your only way out

Re:A beautiful mind

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll.

Bad idea

[autopr0n]

For one thing, it'll cost a lot of money. You don't want to be saddled with lots of student loans, especialy if you're lazy (as the poster obviously is, I am too).

Secondly, for lazy people structure is good. If a school is "freeform" you'll just end up slacking off the entire time.

Finaly, if they're that lazy, they probably don't have a very good faculty. I mean, people who are really good go to good schools with high standards.

Heisenberg anyone? ;)

[Anonymous Coward]

only 650 students, so you can actually meet everyone on campus

Not anymore. You just slashdotted a college, you bastard.

where are my balls? i've lost my balls

[pioneer]

man oh man! talk about a sappy lil' story...

> You are special...

> You are a unique, butterfly...

> You have so much to give...

gag! where are our balls?

my advice: stop listening to your mother :)

Maintain excellent credit

[triclipse]

Whatever you do with your great intellect, make sure you pay all your debts on time. An excellent credit score will be a huge bonus for you if you decide to stay in modern society.

Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like to hear from fellow /.ers that consider themselves unusually but non-traditionally bright ...

You mean you want to hear from all of us?

Don't go to college

[Mustang Matt]

I wish I had never attempted college. I threw my money down the drain repeatedly.

Another ignorant person

[neosapience]

He doesn't have Asperger's syndrome. ADD and ADHD are acronyms used by people that can't figure out how to handle an energetic, intelligent person. Please don't breed. Please.

Go to the hardest school you can find

[chia_monkey]

I too thought (well I guess I still do) I was incredibly bright and talented. Straight As in high school without even trying really. Head on out to Carnegie Mellon and WTF...I'm not the brightest anymore. In fact, I had to bust my ass to be just above average. Since then I've worked a myriad of jobs and started a few companies.

The point is, go get humbled. Find out where your strengths and weaknesses are once you're thrown in with the cream of the crop. You may find you're in the top 5% when it comes to coding but the bottom 5% in communication and reasoning. If, after four years you still find you're a genius, go out in the world, say you got superior grades at a top notch school and do whatever the hell you want. My guess is though, you'll be eating a little humble pie for the first couple semesters at school.

Re:Go to the hardest school you can find

[wizwormathome]

" In fact, I had to bust my ass to be just above average. "

This is some of the best advice I've read so far in this swamp of "get over yourself" and "life sucks, so start sucking" comments. Do something that will really challenge you, but not just for the sake of it being hard. Do it because you know you have the ability. Prove it to yourself and others. Most importantly, find something you are absolutely, without a doubt, passionate about.

I'm an INTP myself and have had almost identical experiences that you described. The difference is that I also did them while in college for the first several years, without knowing what I really wanted to do. I've had 6 majors during my academic career while considering countless more. Everything interests me on a fundamental level, and thus, I'm distracted by everything. I want to keep switching around, trying new things..etc.

It wasn't until about a year ago I realized what I was doing wrong. I hated the way classes are set up, how they seem go so slow.. and how so often, they were utterly pointless. I had wasted years of my life in subjects I was not intrinsically interested in AND that were easy enough for me to basically ignore. Passion towards a subject is absolutely vital to people like us as it gives us a much needed focus to achieve. Otherwise, we just drift off into a sea of endless exploration and mediocre achievements.

For me, and many may find this ironic, it turns out that my passion is education. A subject I swore I would never get into, that I hated because of all the lousy teachers I encountered, has become my point of focus. I am absolutely driven now to become a teacher that is *good* and hopefully, will inspire students to both love learning and take it seriously. Find your passion and you will find the focus that you need to prove to yourself, and everyone, just how much potential you really have. Hard classes will push you to succeed (if at least for the sake of your ego) and will end up teaching you the skills you need to be focused as well. Good Luck!

Re:Go to the hardest school you can find

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations on finding your calling. The world definitely needs teachers that can inspire and help students to achieve...
Unfortunately society and the students themselves don't always want what they need.

So just remember, when in 5 or 10 years time, or whenever you get to the point where you wonder why you got into it, after the 15th kid that day swears at you, does the fingers and walks out saying "his dad reckons only losers have to teach", that it wasn't a mistake.

Some kids can't be helped. A lot of kids just don't care. But some out there are just waiting for someone to give a damn, and given a great teacher, and a good mentor, will go on to do things that will help change the world for the better.

Good luck.

Re:Go to the hardest school you can find

[Anonymous Coward]

I totally agree with you. However too much repeated humbling and you begin to doubt how high you should aim. Your "can-do" attitude gets whittled down to "maybe-I-can".

After 4 years of back-breaking academics to claw back up to "above average", I graduated and got a job where everyone had at least a masters or a couple PhDs (or was an IEEE fellow). And they weren't puffy academics, either. Their code was clean and their ideas insightful, consistently. It was enough to discourage me from getting a graduate degree. Didn't think I was good enough.

However, after that company folded (salaries too high, business people too geeky) and I got a job with "average" programmers (none with comp. sci degrees) I realized that another 2 years of school probably wouldn't kill me. Now I'd kill to work with someone who can teach me something new every time I have a question (even if it means I walk away feeling like there's no way I'd ever be as talented as them).

So eat humble pie, but chew slowly.

From one INTP to another

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you are incredibly lucky and land at the right University and make the right contact there, you will find college a waste of time and money. The exploration of the world is increasingly team based, break throughs are rarely made by a single individual and INTP's can have trouble working in teams. They want to chase down their own lines of thought and until they explore them enough to formulate how to explain them they find it difficult to justify their avenue (or even avenues!) of exploration to others. Hence the tension in a team dynamic. It is also the case that the INTP can often be the catalyst that can be useful in a team effort by cracking the tough nuts that non-INTP's find so challenging/impossible. Even when large numbers of them are applying to trying to crack the problems. An INTP can show up and solve issues that a team of 20 or 30 have struggled with for months (or even years) and piss everyone off by showing them the solution in hours, and thus making them all look incredibly incompetent to their management. In my expereince an INTP thrives best in an environment where they never know what to expect each day at work. INTP's make excellent level 3 support personel in an environment where the company works in an ever changing environment that presents ever changing issues to tackle and overcome. INTP's find routine tasks uninteresting/annoying and with out a diet of fresh challenges they often self destruct. The biggest piece of advice is to work on the emotional side. An INTP can be perceived as being about as warm and snuggly as a T101 which is a huge paradox since INTP's are usually witty, warm, conversational and very capable of expressing their emotions to other people to a degree non-INTP's find amazing (especially if them have already formed the T101 opinion of the INTP.) But that is the challenge, that ability to turn off emotional attachemnt which gives them the ability to objectively analyze so many things can easily go astray. Also, most non-INTP's can not understand that ability to be so detached and often label INTP's as incredibly bright robots. They will sometimes spend incredible amounts of energy sniping at INTP's to "prove" they aren't so bright/hot/whatever. Which of course just sets those non-INTP's on a collision course with an entity that doesn't back down from a challenge, can work the challenge presented with cold detachment (whereas the non-INTP challenger often gets worked up into greater and greater fury) and is well equipped to defeat them in a purely intellectual battle. That cold objectiveness can also be brutal on friendships. So my advice? The intellectual world is served up cold on a platter for you. In this modern age with Internet access to most of human knowledge you are not much in need of help to learn. What you are in need of is education in dealing with emotions and learning when not to engage the cold hard objectivity that comes so naturally (or at least learn how to put a warm snuggy robe around it for others.) For making a living you will shine best in a job where you are in and out of situations. Where you can be the "fixer" or "expeditor" that is presented with a problem and uses the ability to rapidly absorb knowledge, easily analyze large amounts of data for patterns and "think out of the box" to find rapid solutions. Try to stay away from jobs where they mis-interpret your brilliance to mean you can consistently work day in and day out working on the same problem for years. Your ability to jump into a situation and absorb information about it (sometimes almost as quickly as a character from The Matrix) will astond non-INTP's but you will also amaze them negatively by your lack of stamina for sticking with a particular single subject day in and day out. They are also often baffled by your ability to work 4 or 5 things at the same time. Which can make them extremely nervous when you are critical path on an important project or extremely nervous that you will be stolen away by another group when you help the other group out whilst working on th

Ronald Reagan

[makeitreal]

Got a talent for being nice to people? Sucker! Ronald Reagan was no sucker, you insensitive clod!

From Yet Another INTP. . .

[MyHair]

I was about to skip this article entirely, but the editor's comment about INTP caught my interest. If his insight is correct I may have something to offer.

I've never quite fit in and might possibly fit your description, although I would never publicly declare myself "unusually but non-traditionally bright" even though I may sometimes think so if I haven't done something really stupid recently (which I'm prone to do).

At age 34 I think I'm finally more or less comfortable with my future plans and how I fit into things.

Now, the INTP thing. That's a Myers-Briggs [personality] Type Indicator. I've never been much into classifying people, but I felt personally validated after reading some material on the subject. Basically I'm an INTP which is less than 5% of the world's population, so I figure it's okay that I don't seem to think like "everyone else" (for better or worse). The descriptions of INTP's thinking, working and love habits really hit home, too, so that made me feel better. David Keirsey has a couple of books _Please Understand Me_ and _... II_ which cover the subject.

If MB typing interests you, check out _Do What You Are_ by Paul D. Tieger & Barbara Baroon-Tieger. It suggests occupations that match the interests of each of the types.

Like I say I'm a bit skeptical of psychological studies and categorizations in general, but using the above material for validation and occasionally a sanity check helped me feel better, although I don't know if it made any tangible difference in my life. My career was already set when I read these books.

Back to practical advice and personal experience, I had no clue what I wanted to do after high school. I went to college as a default. I did okay at first, but my grades went downhill after a year or two. I was good with computers but couldn't imagine any job I would like involving them; I imagined sitting in front of a green screen typing all day and didn't like it. I had a job with a big company, though, and when working a remote site my terminal went down. The tech showed up while I was there, unplugged the modem and plugged in a new one. I said (or maybe thought...I can't remember now) "you get paid to do that? I can do that." So I got in touch with his manager and found out what the job requirements were: an Associate's degree. So I changed my college focus and got the 2-year degree and happened to get that job just as I graduated. From there my experiences and job interests expanded.

So I guess my career advice is to open your eyes and watch what other people are doing; if you like it, find out how you can do it. That probably sounds obvious to everyone else, but at that age I was very introspective and other people didn't interest me much.

I hate sales. And it sounds like you probably do, too: "Friends and others recognize my strength in these areas." I usually say that I'm bad at first impressions but when people see what I can do they gain respect. When I say sales I include the forward type of behavior involved in cold selling, meeting women and job hunting, because I think they use very similar talents that I (and I suspect you) lack. A couple of things that helped me in this area a while back were college classes in interpersonal communication and business communication. A few customer service seminars at work helped a lot, too. This is important: having techincal skills is good, but these days you *have* to have the people skills to be secure. I still vehemently hate cold selling and job hunting, but I have good customer service skills and work well with just about everyone.

The rest you will decide for yourself as you learn and get more experience in exactly who you are and what you want. I didn't really figure it out until quite recently. I looked at other people and couldn't find anyone whose example I wanted to follow. At 30 I kinda freaked out, quit my job and did some other odd stuff because I just didn't like where my life was going. The past 3 years I've spent recovering fina

Re:From Yet Another INTP. . .

[sylvester]

Now, the INTP thing. That's a Myers-Briggs [personality] Type Indicator. I've never been much into classifying people, but I felt personally validated after reading some material on the subject. Basically I'm an INTP which is less than 5% of the world's population, so I figure it's okay that I don't seem to think like "everyone else" (for better or worse).

I don't know much about M-B, but I gather there are four "booleans", thus 16 possible personality classifications. So the average size of these will be 6%. Being in one of 5% doesn't seem to be much of a distinction to me, but I guess it depends on the distributions...if they're say 94%, 5%, 1%, 0%, 0%... then being in the 5% class is indeed distinctive.

The descriptions of INTP's thinking, working and love habits really hit home, too, so that made me feel better. David Keirsey has a couple of books _Please Understand Me_ and _... II_ which cover the subject.

I wish I had kept the reference, but one of those famed psych papers is about a prof who wrote some generic stuff about how you feel like you don't fit in, and sometimes you think people are just using you or whatnot, and gave (the same text) to a bunch of psych students. The vast majority accepted that it was specifically about them, and insightful to boot. One must read any kind of personality description with a salt lick at hand, IMO.

(Aside: This is the first slashdot story that I've really dug into, and it's really hard to not come off as an asshole, because the 'community' has so little trust. One gets the sense that everyone is just out fucking with everyone else. Not exactly a good environment for productive discussion.)

Re:From Yet Another INTP. . .

[MyHair]

I don't know much about M-B, but I gather there are four "booleans", thus 16 possible personality classifications.

Correct. I/E, N/S, T/F, P/J. Keirsey subdivies them into four "temperments": NT, NF, SP, SJ. (Yeah, the S's are paired with a different component for some reason.)

So the average size of these will be 6%. Being in one of 5% doesn't seem to be much of a distinction to me, but I guess it depends on the distributions...if they're say 94%, 5%, 1%, 0%, 0%... then being in the 5% class is indeed distinctive.

Double-checking my figures, INTP is 1% of the world population, 5% of US population and 4% of web users. My source is the tables in the middle of the page here just below the color 3-d bar graph (1st and second tables after the bar chart). Unfortunately its quoted references are invalid links now. I won't try to further explain the distribution, but I'm satisfied enough to feel better about not "fitting in" to mainstream society. Additionally, since INTP's aren't generally outwardly social I'm less likely to meet the ones who act and think like me.

I wish I had kept the reference, but one of those famed psych papers is about a prof who wrote some generic stuff about how you feel like you don't fit in, and sometimes you think people are just using you or whatnot, and gave (the same text) to a bunch of psych students. The vast majority accepted that it was specifically about them, and insightful to boot. One must read any kind of personality description with a salt lick at hand, IMO.

The description of the types isn't as you described. I kinda thought "everyone probably thinks this describes them" at first, but in Keirsey's book at least only one of the descriptions fits me nearly 100% while a couple others are roughly 50%. (My own post, however may fit into the category of "everyone thinks it's them" since I generally talk about not fitting in and wanting validation. )

I'm not buying in 100% to the Myers-Briggs or Keirsey analyses, but they've been useful to me. I'm willing to consider the possibility they are mumbo-jumbo meaningless categorizations as I carry large doses of salt for any psychologists' observations. In fact my first impression was that it was like Zodiac signs. My "don't fit in" and "not like others" statements were based on my whining, not MBTI...I took what I read and extrapolated it to a reason why I don't fit in to validate myself an my feelings. The MBTI research appears to be fairly straightforward and not touchy-feely on its own merit.

Perhaps I should further qualify myself by saying that any short quote or paragraph from the Keirsey books may describe many or even most people, but the whole INTP chapter(s) appear to describe me nearly 100% accurately whereas the other chapters don't. The unofficial MBTI web sites usually have short descriptions and probably are less distinctive.

Re:From Yet Another INTP. . .

[sylvester]

Cool. Thanks for the reply. 1% is certainly a different ballgame from 5%, and your remarks on the analyses are interesting. I remember taking a M-B test a long time ago on a dial-up BBS. I can't remember what it said I was...maybe I'l try to take it again some time.

The differences in the web-representation vs. global-representation of the types is interesting, too.

The right way to do it is to sceptically read the "type summaries" first, sort them into "yes", "no" and "maybe", then see what you get and whether you thought it matched.

-Rob

Re:From Yet Another INTP. . .

[Chacham]

Keirsey subdivies them into four "temperments": NT, NF, SP, SJ.

That is incorrect. Keirsey has four temperaments completely separate fromt he MBTI. After a while, however, he found correlations between the two. van der Hoop hints to this in his Concious Orientation when he calls for reconciliation between the two typologies.

(Yeah, the S's are paired with a different component for some reason.)

Always wondered about that. Though, van der Hoop says clearly in Concious Oreientation that N is more judgemental than S, and thus more closely tied to T and F. He seems to indication that a true N is an NF, but i think that because he's was probably an INFJ.

The MBTI research appears to be fairly straightforward and not touchy-feely on its own merit.

Except for J/P, it is all Jung. Although J/P is her own invention, it is an indicator to the secondary type that Jung and van der Hoop mention. She just gave it extra significance.

Jung devised the types based on much observation. It has been theorized that I/E is associated with one's genes (see the Introvert Advantage, chapter three). T/F is highly noticeable, especially when anyone calls a female "not logical". About 70% of woman are not, since their preference is for value-judgements. So, i think T/F is undebatable. N/S is the shakiest one of all. Even worse, as it puts between 75 and 85% of all people in the US in one of them (S), it stands on thin ground. van der Hoop, spends a couple paragraphs on it to explain the difference, which is more evident once he retranslates S as intstinctive, as opposed to sensory.

I love the stuff though.

go back now

[autopr0n]

You can go to collage whenever you want, no reason not to go now if you'd really like to know what it ads to your life. You can go to school part time and keep working, although the lost productivity in your job might cost a lot more to you now then then.

Re:go back now

[Dasein]

Actually, I am. It's hard to do it while working a little over 40 hours / week. Mostly from the lack of time (and sleep).

As the other poster mention, being a math major is hard. That's why I chose to do that.

I used to manage development teams and that sort of stuff until I realized that most of the people that I worked for couldn't care less about the quality of the lives of the individual developers and I was just an instrument for extracting more work and longer hours.

So, I stopped doing it. I work as an individual developer now and steadfastly refuse to be exploited. At the same time, because I have a lot of experience, I get paid well enough to put my wife through law school while I go part time.

In a year, when she's done, we're going to swap. I'll go to school full time and she'll bring home the bacon. However, I really love to cook, so I'll be the one frying it up in a pan, thank you very much (and thank you, Alton).

"ok" grades is what it's about

[Anonymous Coward]

Getting "ok" grades in college is probably what most smart, yet well adjusted people do so don't be hard on yourself over this. The normal thing to do is maximize GPA while minimizing work - for most folks this means a 3.0.

For instance, skipping homework, recitation and any labs will probably cost you a 3/4 points in GPA but with careful scheduling you can get Thursdays and Fridays off while still enjoying a respectable B+ average.

These are the sorts of things that the 4.0 crowd just doesn't understand. Always so inflexible about getting A's and being responsible and what not.

get to work

[liminality]

hey dude, i used to be you, and three interdisciplinary degrees later, i still have my tendencies.

but intelligence isn't that useful if it doesn't accomplish anything. few people or places are going to pay you for the apples you pluck from the brilliance tree and toss their way. neither will half-completed projects get you much recognition. what i've learned is to stop playing "Good Will Hunting", to stop romanticizing myself and blaming human existence for its banality, and to just get down to work. you will also quickly find that people admire that more than most things. what intelligence really gives a person is the free time to persue their own interest after their work is done. that is the gift in itself.

the worst thing an intelligent person can allow themselves to do is to slide into cynicism. without a work ethic to balance it out, cynicism + intelligence = underachivement.

Try a broad field (like architecture)

[digitect]

Can't say I consider myself so bright any more now that I'm older, but I suggest you try a field that has a lot of width, like architecture.

That was my experience. I was lucky to get six years to complete undergrad (thanks Mom and Dad!) so I could do the four year commitment to architecture school while still taking quite a few religion, business, art and history courses. Never failed a class and graduated with nearly 200 hours. Best thing that could have happened, even though I didn't realize it at the time. (I transferred too late in my freshman year and couldn't get into Arch school until my junior year.)

And now, even though I've been in this career for a while, I still enjoy it. Architecture has a lot of different opportunities. You can develop into a designer, focusing on the art and philosophy. Or you can explore the technical side becoming a specialist in specifications, construction administration, or some particular design focus such as laboratory planning. Other opportunities include project, financial and office management, marketing and graphics, or CAD, computer and technical support. Really, there's something for everyone.

The trick is to not focus too soon. Most professions (medicine, law, accounting, architecture) have a range of skill areas. Even computer science, as specific as it is, has opportunities in marketing, usability, testing, graphics, business and project management, sales, internal technical support, and human resources--not just programming.

The downside of not focusing early is that you'll always be behind the savant who did. But if you know yourself not to be that way (as you do) don't even try to compete. I always think its funny when the working end of the screwdriver types (in my profession the designers) lament that everyone else goes home on time and has more of a life. They miss that it's a team effort, and they need the rest of us as much as we need them. (Besides the fact that such focus can sometimes lead to massive mis-direction and inefficiency. Although I will grant that it takes that type and effort to yield the once-in-a-lifetime genius work of architecture. Once. Among dozens of failures and misses.)

So be sure to shop around and keep yourself learning broadly. Force yourself to learn things you don't want to know. And remember, even though you might be known as your office's Cliff Clavin, it only takes one time for that single obscure bit of knowledge or experience to land your firm a mega contract and bump you up the ladder five rungs.

ISTP

[Temkin]

INTP? You must be kidding. Clear cut case of ISTP.

Re:ISTP

[Chacham]

Not really. The fact that he cares is indicative of INTP. Although, it is quite clear that he is an introverted thinker.

from a humble "bright" person, i say calm down

[chasingporsches]

i am just like you. but i recommend for you to not look at it like you are entering the beginning of the rest of your life. thats a crock of **** that they feed you in high school. who you define yourself as in high school has more of an impact in who you are later on, because in high school, for the most part, you're still growing. college is fun, its free (as in freedom), its exciting... but not something extraspectacular that should be revered. and plus, the whole idea of college is that the "bright" people go on to further their education, while the not-so-bright ones get jobs. so you're going to be around people who are MUCH BRIGHTER THAN YOU. so my advice is don't think about it. be who you are already, act as you already do, and if you dont do good in something, try something else. who cares.

Corrollary: Relativity

[Anonymous Coward]

You will come into contact with people that make your uniqueness and brightness less unique and less bright by comparison.

You get to choose how you feel about it and how you react.

Join the military

[fredrickleo]

Join, the military (probably the air force for you), its got what you're looking for... And doing well in the military takes more than just being strong or fast or whatever, you've got to be smart realize your own strangths and weaknesses and how they apply to the job at hand. You'll learn all about what you like and dont like, what is satisfying to you and what is not. Then when you are done, you'll have a leg up in the world. I thought I was like you, the military showed me how many other bright people there really is and that without applying yourself it doesnt mean a thing.

Re:Join the military

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he should join the meat shields....err... marines.

stay interested, and learn to manage your time

[kaan]

A lot of what was written in the parent post could have easily been written about me. I'm just a hair under 30 years old, and have come a long way since entering college. For now, I work a full-time job writing software, and a part-time job (on the weekends) in a bike shop. I enjoy writing software, and the pay is heads and shoulders above what I could get in another profession, but I also enjoy working on bikes and being in a social environment. Sitting in an office all day bites, and the social atmosphere is strange at best. Outside of work, I do all kinds of other things with my time - used to sing in a few music groups, still play music (guitar, synths) for fun, lots of cycling (mountain and road bikes), still go skateboaring sometimes, play video games (in moderation), watch lots of movies, read books, surf the web, work on small software side-projects, build things for use around the house, hang out with friends, drink beer, etc...

The upshot is, I've got a ton of interests, and I'm constantly faced with the dilemma of how to spend my time. On any given night, there are half a dozen things I'd like to do. I think the biggest piece of advice I could give would be to go easy on yourself if you can't find the time to do all of the things you want to do. Stick to a few things, and if you find yourself getting bogged down, where things are no longer enjoyable, scale it back a bit and remember to enjoy life. If you haven't already found out, there are a lot of people who are in a huge goddamn hurry throughout their lives, rushing around and ignoring all kinds of things in order to reach their "goals". Life can be great for you, especially since you're talented and skilled in many ways. Just take the time to enjoy it, give yourself the time to grow and change, and get the most out of your experiences. It's only an opinion, but I believe that as soon as a person takes that plunge into hyperactivity (doing eighty things simultaneously), that's when you really start to miss out on what makes life cool. Just have fun, enjoy your talents, keep yourself entertained and interested, and keep exploring and learning. I've been doing that for the past 15 years, and have absolutely no regrets at all.

Post-Pretentious

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I think that I might actually be able to help this poor soul. I have above average intelligence and I thought that the world should adorn me with gifts when I was 18 as well. As it turns out, it wasn't the mental capacity that got me anywhere. I had to hunker down and do things I didn't like to do (and still am). You're not old enough to enjoy what you do with your brain. School and entry-level everything are terrible places to be, and everyone needs to do it. Join Mensa - you'll notice that people who like to advertise their intelligence are typically lacking in several other areas of life.

Syndrome

[Anonymous Coward]

You might want to check out online that syndrome where you're overly skeptical of syndromes. If you recognize yourself in the descriptions, you should go see a specialist.

Re:Syndrome

[neosapience]

I'm not overly sceptical of anything. The fact is, 3rd grade school teachers are diagnosing kids with ADD. They simply aren't QUALIFIED to do so. Half of the kids taking ritalin didn't have it prescribed by a professional. 99% of the people in this forum are NOT qualified to even SUGGEST that he has a mental problem.

Until you show me a doctrate, I'll continue to think you're an ignorant bafoon.

My Story

[freejung]

Rilke said it best

Wow, that's really deep. Thanks, DJ!

So now that the discussion's cooling down a bit and there's time to think, I want to just tell you a little bit of my story.

I knew what I wanted to do with my life since I was five years old. I wanted to be a physicist. I got through two years of grad school (and was doing quite well, thank you) when I was essentially forced to drop out due to family problems. This journal entry talks a little bit about how this came about and gives links to the press coverage, it's actually quite an interesting story but it's also a very long one and I needn't go into the details to make my point.

My point is, when I left physics, it was actually a profound relief. Turns out, after much soul-searching, I realized I didn't really want to be a physicist, I just wanted to learn about physics. I love the subject, but the discipline sucks in the same way nearly everything in the system sucks. Now my goal is to get out of the system, and I'm very happy about it. This all came about by following my heart, and not doing what was "best for my career," and I am very glad things have gone this way. But I have no idea what our young friend's path should be, so I gave the only advice that I can, which is "follow your heart." It's simple, and it works.

You really never know what life is going to throw at you. You might dedicate yourself assiduously to something for years, and then get spun off on a completely different path. So that's why I say do what you love. I always did, and I've never regretted it.

You need to be able to focus

[KillerCow]

I'm incredibly intense and concentrated, yet I often become bored of specific projects in a few months.

The thing that will determine if you suceed in life is your ability to focus for long periods of time. In school, and in life, you will have to focus on long projects to make anything. You will have to work on them after you loose the initial excitement. You will have to be able to work through frustration. You will be have to work on them after your boss / instructor / assignment makes them not fun anymore. In the real world, you will not be able to "become bored of specific projects in a few months."

You must find something that you will love enough to be able to work through the tough times, knowing that you will be able to enjoy it again shortly, after the crunch. Your ability to suceed depends on finding something that you can enjoy -- the people that you compete with will. They will have much more stamina than you because they enjoy it so much. If you cant enjoy the lows along with the highs, you won't be able to compete.

Ignore the grumpy assholes

[jburroug]

They're unhappy with their lives and want everyone else to be too. Also ignore the eternal optimists, following their advice will leave you unprepared for a colder, harsher world than they describe. Above all else, ignore me I don't know what the hell I'm talking about either. Though I would also suggest reading what we all have to say and evaluating it's merit as only you can.

Ok so now I'm going to make a few statements and offer some suggestions that I expect you to ignore because even if hadn't told you to ignore me you'd do you're own thing anyway. First off you're situation isn't all that unique. There are plenty of bright young people that didn't like HS who now find themselves wondering what to do with their lives. There are also plenty of bright not-so-young-anymore people who went through the exact same thing you're going through. I count myself a member of the latter group and I imagine that a lot /. readers fit into one or another catagory as well. Don't worry, this is a good thing, if you and your circumstances were truely unique you'd have no peers to support you and no 'elders' with experience for you to draw on. So as one of your 'elders' let me offer a few suggestions for you to ignore that might be of some use.

Go to University. Not because it's good for you, or because "it will help you get a job" but because it's fun. If you love to learn as much as you claim to you'll have a blast at Uni and can diversify your education as much as you like (or until you run out of money) If you haven't already given it some thought you may want to consider majoring in business management (*disclaimer: this is what my degree is in.) If your attention span is fickle as you say you'll probably enjoy this degree. You do one or two class from each of the major areas of the business program and move on. The focus is on giving the student a working knowledge of many different areas, plus there are a lot of elective credits to play with, I took a lot CS and extra Econ courses with mine.

Don't get stuck in the paradigm of living a "normal" life. If you so chose you can abandon the concepts of "career" and "permanent residence." At 25 I'm on my third post-college job and second career-track. I've also put in one cross country move and I'm starting to think of doing another in 12-18 months. This has worked well for me because I do bore easilly and am somewhat less risk-averse than average I think. I like exploring new cities, mastering new jobs and adding to my portfolio of skills. There are downsides to being a white-collar vagabond however. It's hard to say goodbye to close friends and family, retirement accounts don't grow as fast and there are long worrying spells when you have no health insurance. Also you'll probably never make as much money as someone who choses a more staid and serious life. You'll also never be a true expert in any feild, where others aquire great depth of knowledge, you'll aquire great breadth, and may just be a lot happier for it. I'm not saying this is the way for you to live or even that it's a permanent deal for me either but it's an idea to keep in mind should you find yourself feeling bored and trapped a year or two into first "real" job outta college.

Diversify your hobbies and live outside of your head some -or- don't forget you have a body attached to that big monkey brain of yours. If you get bored of specific projects or hobbies easilly diversifying and adding some physical ones can really help. It's nice to get a break from thinky stuff on a regular basis. To break up the monotany of my day jobs and thinky hobbies I also cycle, run, hike, backpack, lift weights, brew (and drink) beer and have plans to start moonshining. These are all activities that require me to manipulate the real world or my own body, not just bits on the computer screen or words in my head.

To close I'll borrow from the great Bard himself, remember "to thine own self be true." Do whatever it is that you think will make you happy and keep doing it until your not happy with it anymore, then find something else.

Flighty polymath?

[gad_zuki!]

>You're not special.

Actually I would say he is. Then again I'd say you're a pessimist.

To the poster:

You sound a lot like a flighty polymath. These personality types do pretty well in short or unstructered environments.

Take an adult education course that interests you at a local or community college.

Take up an instrument and LEARN IT. Don't self-teach at first, take a class or two. Network with fellow musicians.

Pick projects that are short but worthwhile. The long and drawn-out just aren't for you.

Challenge yourself by always reading a book. Sometimes I randomly play with the lists on Amazon when trying to find something new.

Travel. Get the heck out of dodge every now and again.

Feel free to get out the technology game. You might do better by playing with low tech like photography, filmmaking, painting, etc.

Lastly, find a like minded girl. Geek girls are pretty easy to spot and share lot of your interests and may share your contempt for the mainstream.

Re:Flighty polymath?

[Anonymous Coward]

Geek girls are pretty easy to spot

yes, look for the bad teeth, greasy hair, flabby belly, and thick glasses.

Re:Flighty polymath?

[Mycroft_VIII]

It's possible to do what he says, BUT warning it's a) not easy, and B) not likely to much $$ in it most of the time.
Well that last sentance is a bit off. Yeah some are easy to spot(unfortunately thier usually the ones that are easy to smell, detect the gravitational pull of) but quite a few are just the opposite.
The distribution of highly intelligent people tends to mimic the distribution of normal people except that the ones that do well do REALLY well across the board. Don't remember his name, but some major football star for Notre Dame(IIRC) who was obviously built like brick, also made some significant contributions to genetic science while in college and probably graduated with honors.
You could also try and get into MENSA to be around other high i.q. people if you want. I can't really say how worth it it would be as when I joined the membership in my area was low and just not interested in the same kinds of things I was.
One thing I can advise against. Don't screw up colledge, if your gonna do it make shure you finish, or at least don't take on student loans unless your positive you'll be able to re-pay them without undue fiscal stress.

Mycroft

College

[davidmacq]

College isn't like HS. I hated HS! Silly teachers reading from textbooks, or having us read from them. In college they actually lecture, and the quality of teaching is much better, more rewarding, more interesting!

Go get stuffed.

[autopr0n]

Wow, I can't believe you could be so arrogant. it's one thing to call yourself "bright" for not believing in god (which is still extremely arrogant, and not at all like calling a homosexual "gay").

But asking people not to use a word the way everyone has been using it for years is the height of arrogance and extremely obnoxious. Gay people didn't ask people to stop using Gay to mean happy, it just happened, because people talk about homosexuality much more often then they do about being happy. They certainly discuss it more then they do people who are atheist/agnostic, except with certain obnoxious people who join atheist clubs, and go around telling everyone how atheist they are, and getting all offended about religion.

And anyway, if you wanted a term that would catch on, you should have gone with something like "unbound" or "freeminded" or whatever. It's still a positive term, but it doesn't put you above anyone else. Like "bright" does.

I personally don't believe in anything, but you people are just obnoxious.

Re:Go get stuffed.

[ArsSineArtificio]

But asking people not to use a word the way everyone has been using it for years is the height of arrogance and extremely obnoxious.

By a stunning coincidence, atheists themselves tend to be at the height of arrogance and extremely obnoxious.

Re:Go get stuffed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, bullshit. Atheists are no more arrogance and obnoxious then theists.

Re:Go get stuffed.

[Oligonicella]

You mistake rebuttal responses for characteristics. Brights are a fraction of athiests and Christians are a fraction of religious people. Both groups have those who "tend to be at the height of arrogance and extremely obnoxious". Examine the extending of the target scope in your own statement for an example.

Joke

[freejung]

That is quite possibly the most incorrect statement I've ever seen on slashdot.

It was a joke, man!

"Sheesh, you guys are so unhip it's a wonder your bums don't fall off." --Zaphod

Recommended Reading for "Lost" Souls

[eutychus_awakes]

As far as finding great resources for determining your personality type, I haven't found a better book than The Spirit Controlled Temperament by Tim Lahaye. Yes, it's a Christian book, although I think it does a great job of explaining the wiring in our heads in a very straightforward manner. In other words, even Christians will be able to understand it and get something out of it. ;-)

One thing Lahaye does a GREAT job of is explaining the strengths and weaknesses of each personality type - whether it be Melancholy, Choleric, Sanguine, or Phlegmatic. The thesis of the book is that we need to be "tempered" - meaning that we shouldn't flaunt our strengths, and we shouldn't use our weaknesses as a crutch or excuse for bad behavior. More than that, it is filled with a good measure of helpful principles for becoming more "tempered." A good read.

failing with plentiful raw ability

[Anonymous Coward]

few things suck more. seriously.

there's just nothing like having all the advantages and all the talent and wasting them on self-congratulation and misplaced confidence. nothing like telling yourself you'll pull off genius as soon as you find the right outlet. nothing like knowing you're incredible, but not being able to prove it.

get off your ass and do something that seems hard. do something that you'd be surprised to know you did. get it done. finish something.

because if i know raw ability and raw talent, and i think i do, you probably get bored before you get to the really hard part. and the really hard part is where it gets interesting. and if you never get to the really hard part, then you think it's easy for you.

the really hard part is the end. done. finished. when you can say "complete". you bet your fucking life on it.

so quit talking to yourself, quit seeing the world in your own image, quit feeling your oats and fucking plant them.

INTP

[cfury]

I myself am INTP, and a lot of what you said in your question applied to me when I was in school. What you really have to focus on is Work Ethics (I'm sure that's going to send shudders down a great many spines around here... :) However, what you need to do is learn to apply yourself to whatever task is at hand.

Many of the posts I've read here have been negative. But that's just BS from the 90% of the world that doesn't know what's like to see the world the way we do. Albert Einstein was an INTP, and he wasn't understood until much later in his life (and even more so after his death.)

Learn to concentrate on specific goals. Don't be afraid to tread on a few feet (as we are want to do.) College will help you grow and learn to understand different peoples and cultures, and there is stuff there you will learn. I highly recommend it. But be prepared for disappointment. It is highly goal oriented. Learn to embrace that.... but apply your own unique touch to it. It'll help you in the real world. But don't forget to think inside, upside, downside and outside the box. That's what true innovation is about anyway.

Good luck!

Chris

You just don't care!

[thepr0fess0r]

You remind me a bit of me. You're not exceptionally bright, you just don't care. The misconception is caused by the fact that most people who don't care, don't care because they're rather dull witted. So to be more clear, you _are_ uniquely bright, only you're merely bright for the demographic that doesn't give a shit, rather than the population on the whole. It's a rough job though, not giving a shit. It's not to be taken lightly. At college, you're going to need to come to grip with the fact that you don't care, and make sure you're ok with that. Leading a life of mediocre accomplishments isn't so bad, as long as you're willing to accept the fact that you are a deplorable mass of dead weight, that does only what is necessary to stay above water. Not giving a shit is a big responsibility... But it's not a lot of work. And that rocks.

Hi, my name is Rico

[Anonymous Coward]

and you sound a lot like me. I am a Border Collie with a 200 word vocabulary, and people call me uniquely bright as well.

I have a skill called "fast mapping" and can recognize new toys in a box. I will hump your leg if I can meet you sometime. woof woof.

Advice

[raytracer]

• College isn't high school. Nobody is going to care very much if you fail, with the possible exception of you.
• There is no difference between having talents which you cannot use effectively and not having talents at all.
• There will always be people with more talent than you. There will also always be people with less talent who succeed where you do not because they simply try harder.
• Nobody is ever really good at a job that they hate.

Learn new words ...

[dbcad7]

That's what I'd do...

perhaps "modesty" might be a good one to start with.

regards,

dbcad7

Theology Poster Boy

[The Lost Supertone]

I used to be the poster boy for most church anything (aside from not looking SUPA HOT), me and two friends used to make all the other youth pastors envious of our youth group because we actually knew our bibles, and could think in a theological manner. I'm attending a small bible college, where I have to make sure to dumb things down for the majority of my peers. I think eventually you just realize there's nothing that makes you feel better about showing off and such. And you just learn to not let anyone know that you're actually any different than them... it sets up for a better reaction when you transcend this reality and become a creature of pure light and good. :)

A better classification of your character

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need to justify yourself.

Why have you concluded that you are "bright"?

- You are unconcerned with traditional societal measures of success.
- You do not have traditional wealth-family aspirations.
- You enjoy doing what interests you, and see no reason why you should have to do what doesn't interest you; i.e. to do what is prescribed by traditional societal roles or projects.

What you are - and this is nothing to be ashamed of - is a slacker; i.e. a hippie, a deviant, a malcontent, an anarchist.

Your wish to classify yourself as "bright" is only an attempt to justify yourself in the face of the societal status quo.

You do not want to do what does not interest you.

Don't.

And live with your choice.

And give society the middle finger when they ask you.

Fuck them.

(A)

Well if you are so smart....

[astrojetsonjr]

... why are you hanging around here? Surely someone of your intelligence knows of much better ways to spend your time than Slashdot. You know: People to feed, Cancer to cure, Wars to stop, Internet companies to IPO...
Let us know how it works out for you.

in the real world....

[gonzoxl5]

Unfortunately in the real world we often have to do jobs that we're not particularly interested in, what separates the successes from the failures is not how bright you are but how good your self discipline is and whether or not you can be relied upon to competently complete the task at hand (however personally uninteresting it may be).

I'd hire an experienced competent safe pair of hands over a flighty whizz kid any day of the week.

With the former I can have confidence that my project will get delivered on time and to spec, with the latter I will have to watch them like a hawk and probably end up picking up the pieces myself.

Some people are lucky enough to be able to spend their life being creative and working to the full extent of their ability, for the rest of us the best we can hope for is reasonable job satisfaction (knowing that we made a difference) and a decent pay packet.

My life is fine.

[Anonymous Coward]

My life is fine. Get lost, pussy.

In other news ....

[Anonymous Coward]

Michael has a 200 word vocabulary

Mod parent up...Re:Ignore the grumpy assholes

[voss]

I wish I had mod points to mod you up...

This is probably the most thoughtful and grownup
post Ive seen in a while in slashdot. We dont need a bunch of slashdotters being their own anal retentive fathers. What the kid needs is career counseling, and honest testing.

Being a CS/CSE grad doesnt make you a genius or a jedi. Its quite possible this kid is the real thing, its also possible he has overblown ego or a little bit of both.

I had a 1.8 GPA in high school. I hated high school, but my GPA as was in college kept going up.

The real secret this kid needs to do, is find something he likes to do that he can make money at.
Whether hes a genius with ADD or just an aimless kid.

I am uniquely bright

[Anonymous Coward]

I can pick my nose in new and interesting ways. I also can burp loudly on demand. That is why I am the next Eistien.

lazy

[Anonymous Coward]

that's what you're going to have to fight in life. sounds like you're losing the battle right now. should have a 4.0 but don't = lazy. unlimited attention span when interested = lazy. sounds harsh but i know because i struggle with the same issues (right now i'm too lazy to hit shift). honestly you need discipline - find it somewhere, military or whatever. you'll thank me some day.

Let's auto-fellate our egos tonight

[MarkCollette]

Hi, there. I really think that I'm super spiffy in many ways. Well, I'm at least better than everyone I've ever met.

I was wondering if anyone else here knows what it's like to be so superior? Maybe we could all have a circle jerk together?

Looking past the narcissism...

[gilroy]

... my only advice would be the same I give my high school seniors:

Figure out what you love. If you're truly clever, you should be able to find a way to mkae a good living doing what you love.

And if you try lots of things and can't find the thing you love? If you can't seem to focus for more than a few months? Pox take you: you're not "uniquely bright" -- you're just a dilettante (and not in the good way).

Good Luck Buddy...

[jcenters]

Hey, I've been there, I'm there, I know where you're at, so please, allow me to retort.

First thing you should know is that there is no point to life. Wanna know the difference between Ronald Reagan and the crackhead on 8th avenue? They're both worm food right now.

So, don't worry about crap like "success" that others foist upon you. What is success? It's whatever you say it is, nothing else. The only success is doing what you like until you too become worm food.

Rule two: You're not going to change the world. There's too many people that have figured out how to profit from our wicked ways to let some little smart-ass cocksucker like you change that. If your goal in life is to make a lot of money, figure out how to make the heartless crooks rich and you'll be quite comfortable. Oh, and make lots of connections, because that's where the big money comes from: Connections and pure luck.

You are a unique and beautiful snowflake. Snowflake number #3857493 to be exact.

There are two camps in this world, the camp that says "Shut the fuck up, stop whining, eat your boss's shit on toast, put your nose to the grindstone and work yourself to death, and the camp that says "Be yourself. Let your natural talents grow. Do what you enjoy doing."

Sorry kid. The world sucks. Everyone's out for number one and they don't give a fuck about you unless they get something good in return; no matter if it's your boss, your wife, your parents, or your kids. You're the same way, so you might as well accept it.

And the point of my post? There is none, just like there's no point in life. Life is like an old school video game: There's no real "finish," just see how many points you can rack up until you die. Figure out your own scoring system and rack up them points boy.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. I think learning is one of the best parts of life, and can give life a lot of ``meaning''. I'm 19, so I'll be dead in say, 70 years (if I'm lucky), or maybe if medicine gets really crazy 100. But I'll have learned many interesting things, been happy, been nice, loved people, etc. Also, if you enjoy being successful, there's meaning for you too.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[SparafucileMan]

Hahaha. True.

I would say, there is no point, but "no point" is still a point (or: if there's "no point", then every point is a point...). Then probably start babbling about Godel and self-referrential nonsense about how something can't come from nothing...

Damn I wish more people realized that there's no fucking point...and yes, true, connections and luck account for some 90% or whatever of all success (well, whether others think you're successful).

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[BJH]

You're not disagreeing with him. Your opinion puts you in camp #2.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[jcenters]

You're a smart guy Spara. That's where we're cursed.

See, what most people don't know is that smart people like us, like many on Slashdot, are cursed. Intelligence is a frigging prison.

Why? Because we think ourselves out of the white picket fence. I live in the south where most rednecks are happy working in a factory and knocking up women like it was going out of style. And they love that lifestyle and God bless em for it.

But us? We think too damn much. We think until we push ourselves outside of the Matrix(TM) , and we sit here, eating some snotty goop and thinking "Why?'

So all you dumbasses out there, you know, those that could never fabricate a circuit board, never write a line of Perl, or tell the difference between Everclear and a nice Amarone: Consider yourselves lucky. You live nice, happy, simple lives. Fulfilling lives. You feel good when you die.

Us, the "smart" ones, on the other hand, live like savage refugees. We ask too many damn questions and pay the price for trying to pick the brain of God.

Oh, and before I go too off-topic: In Soviet Russia, Natalie Portman's hot grits outsmart YOU, All your Base are belong to step 3, Bill Gates is the sux0r.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Aczlan]

"Just because someone doesn't know anything and everything about computers and networks doesn't make them an idiot, it just means that they actually have a life. You oughta give it a try, although it's probably too late."

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Anonymous Coward]

You and Spara make excellent points...so expect to be modded down as the story goes on, because all the religious masses, and those who can't handle the truth run screaming from the utter pointlessness of life.

But I add this comment anyway, to show that at least some others exist out there who think just like you...and know that we'll suffer in life because of it.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Anonymous Coward]

Funniest post ever found on slashdot!

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Tripster]

Ok you two, you've now figured out the truth and will have to be taken out. :-)

I've pretty much concluded the same thing, life is actually pointless in that it is only a temporary thing anyway. As it sits we could be wiped out of existence tomorrow in many ways, at which point everything we've ever been is gone and was entirely meaningless.

So, do what you enjoy doing, it will all be over quicker than you'd like anyway more than likely, I don't imagine too many folks are ready for death once it comes, although I expect they don't realize that after they are gone either.

You only get one ride, enjoy it while you can because it's gonna be dark a long time afterwards. Life is basically a vacation from death some author once said.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[dankjones]

Your weakness is that you underestimate people too easily.

You are unhappy because you've just recently realized that alot of the world sucks, but have yet to realize just how lucky you are, learn to give a crap about people other than yourself or become aware of any worlds outside of your own tiny little reality.

Most people are smarter than YOU think.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wonderful, first we had 42 and now we have /. nihilism. Oi vey!

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wanna know the difference between Ronald Reagan and the crackhead on 8th avenue? They're both worm food right now.

TROLL

You're not going to change the world.

Wow. Four sentences and a contradiction.

Sorry kid. The world sucks. Everyone's out for number one and they don't give a fuck about you unless they get something good in return; no matter if it's your boss, your wife, your parents, or your kids. You're the same way, so you might as well accept it.

Troll troll troll your boat...

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[JohnFluxx]

Okay, now tell me what "have a life" means.
It seems to come up a lot. It seems that most people seem to mean it to mean talking to non-smart people, having a normal girlfriend, and perhaps getting kids.

All of which are overrated. Look at the divorce rate if you aren't convinced.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[sylvester]

Sorry kid. The world sucks. Everyone's out for number one and they don't give a fuck about you unless they get something good in return; no matter if it's your boss, your wife, your parents, or your kids. You're the same way, so you might as well accept it.

I call bullshit. You can model things this way, and in some sense it's true, but people do heroic things all the time. You can always say they were doing it for themselves, but that's just forcing cynicism on reality, not extracting it from reality.

-Rob

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[sylvester]

So all you dumbasses out there, you know, those that could never fabricate a circuit board, never write a line of Perl, or tell the difference between Everclear and a nice Amarone: Consider yourselves lucky. You live nice, happy, simple lives. Fulfilling lives. You feel good when you die.

I see all the issues that you see. I feel bad when I don't buy my products carefully. I have what I have come to term "Affluent White Male Guilt." That makes me sound like a whinging middle-ager with a potbelly. I'm not.

Lately, I've been thinking about ambition and ego. And I realized that some of this guilt that I have, and I'd guess you share, about not doing enough is because we can do so much. I'm comfortable in social situations, get along well with people, intelligent with computers. Those are my traits. But the rest is luck: I'm in the luckiest 100th of a percent in the world in terms of where I was born, when I was born, how I was raised. Wealthy enough to go to school, not so wealthy to be shielded by it. I've traveled, etc.

All of this sounds like a giant ego trip, and to some extent it is, but the point is this: I think that those of us who, like me, are just that lucky, share a certain guilt. This is the guilt of being lucky, and knowing it, and knowing that you don't do enough with it.

And I believe that is the curse that you speak of. It's not intelligence, but intelligence is part of the luck.

-Rob, taking it one step further.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[MicroBerto]

While this is funny and I once would agree, I completely disagree anymore. Our kid here is smart and can do whatever the hell he wants.

If anything, if nothing else works out, he might as well be able to love and be loved by friends and family, something more important than anything else.

However, having an attitude such as yours is no way to love or be loved. Think about it before you post next time. There's too many fun people and attractions out there to be wasting away in bitterness. Perhaps a change of scenery would help.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[delcielo]

Do be careful not to polarize the world. It's not populated with only dumbasses and geniuses.

There are indeed aimless hordes of people who don't have the ambition you will; but even they will tend to be aware of the fact on some level. The difference is that they are able to resign themselves to it, whereas you and I are not. Sometimes, for brief moments, I wish I could too.

But we need to be careful of condescending to them. Our higher intelligence gives us no special right to rudeness, or greater consideration from society. If there is a lesson in life that we could learn from them, it's that you only deserve what you work for. All men are created equal. The gene pool entitles you to nothing.

Be a smart guy. Fulfill your potential to the greatest extent possible. But don't despise the rest of society. The thing you find after time is that the average Joe isn't quite as shallow as you might have thought, and that the average "smart guy" isn't as deep.

As you get older, being more intelligent than those around you becomes a little less painful. Both you and your age-peers begin to realize that it means less and less in terms of how you treat each other.

Cheers.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[tverbeek]

there's no point in life.

People tend to think of this philosophy as depressing and pessimistic. But existentialism has a follow-up: If there's no point, then we're free to create our own. Your life is about whatever you decide to make it about. That's the ultimate optimism.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Anonymous Coward]

Guilt? What is so fucking great about you that you need to feel guilt about it?

Jesus H. Christ on a stick!

Here's a hint: YOU ARE A LOSER!

You sound just like every other upper middle class, slightly educated loser who went to some liberal arts college and learned to hate himself.

If you are doing well in life it is because you *earned* it. There is no luck. There are plenty of fucking idiots who were born to vast wealth who did absolutely nothing with it and drank or coked themselves into a pit.

Last hint: YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL!

I met literally hundreds of guys just like you when I was in college. You're a clone. Clones don't get lucky. They get created in a lab.

So shut the fuck up and stop telling us all how superior you are.

And to the mods who thought this drivel was insightful, get over yourselves. You're a bunch of mindless self righteous clones just like this loser.

Thank you.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Thunderstruck]

Is it luck, or is it the benefits of hard work from your parents & grandparents? It wasn't that long ago that my grandparents came from europe, driven by rampant poverty & oppression. They settled on 160 acres of fosaken land in the midwest and made a life for themselves. The one thing that set them apart is that they worked hard for my benefit. It wasn't luck, and they didn't spend hours pontificating on how pointless their lives were. They dedicated themselves to a better life for their descendants and I thank them for it. But there was no LUCK involved.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[sylvester]

Guilt? What is so fucking great about you that you need to feel guilt about it?

I didn't say I was great. I said I was lucky, and that I didn't feel like I was doing enough with that luck.

You sound just like every other upper middle class, slightly educated loser who went to some liberal arts college and learned to hate himself.

Didn't go to a liberal arts school. Didn't learn to hate myself. Don't hate myself. Have a nagging sense of guilt that I don't do enough with the life I've landed.

If you are doing well in life it is because you *earned* it. There is no luck. There are plenty of fucking idiots who were born to vast wealth who did absolutely nothing with it and drank or coked themselves into a pit.

Depends how you define "doing well", but certainly there's plenty of luck to the fact that I'm "doing well" financially.

Last hint: YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL!

I never said I was special. I don't particularly believe that I'm special.
And I think you've made a fairly big mistaken assumption about my basis for comparison about being "lucky". I was not comparing myself to other Canadians or even other Westerners. I was comparing myself to the world.

So shut the fuck up and stop telling us all how superior you are.

I never said I was superior, either. Just lucky.
Got that? Here, one more time: lucky.

(Perhaps IHBT. That's fine.)

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[sylvester]

Is it luck, or is it the benefits of hard work from your parents & grandparents?

Sure, it's their hard work. But that doesn't make it any less "luck" that those are the people I was born to. They didn't have luck, they had hard work. But my benefitting from their hard work is indeed luck.

Do you see what I mean? I understand your point; if you assume I was to be born to my parents, and them to my grandparents, all nice and deterministically, of course it's just their hard work paying off for me.

but if you assume that I was a random 'soul' to be assigned a random body and mind, in a random place at a random time, I got an awfully lucky draw.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[nanowyatt]

Wanna know the difference between Ronald Reagan and the crackhead on 8th avenue? They're both worm food right now.

Is that a difference?

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Dr. Evil]

Are you really lucky, or have you just been brainwashed by your hard working forefathers into appreciating those things in society which their efforts provided you an abundance of?

Ultimately, guilt for not doing enough is a lack of contentment and purpose. Maybe your 'gift' of intelligence will ensure you will never be content and never have a satisfying purpose.

Maybe that lack of satisfaction is nothing more than an important trait which grants populations an evolutionary edge over their neighbours.

Too many "intellectuals" and the population suffers. Too few, and the population suffers.

Of course none of this addresses purpose, but it does address using reason, why you need to find a purpose, but you can't find one.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[sylvester]

Are you really lucky, or have you just been brainwashed by your hard working forefathers into appreciating those things in society which their efforts provided you an abundance of?

Brainwashed how? I don't understand how being brainwashed into appreciating things would make me feel guilty for not doing enough.

Ultimately, guilt for not doing enough is a lack of contentment and purpose. Maybe your 'gift' of intelligence will ensure you will never be content and never have a satisfying purpose.

I have some lack of purpose, but I don't think more than anyone else does. And I wouldn't call myself "not contented". I didn't say that at all.

Maybe that lack of satisfaction is nothing more than an important trait which grants populations an evolutionary edge over their neighbours.

Again, it's not discontent, and it's not dissatisfaction. Not with my own life, anyway. If you want to apply the term to something, then dissatisfaction with my world, I guess. Might be evolutionarily useful, yes. But I think it's also rational and reasonable.

Of course none of this addresses purpose, but it does address using reason, why you need to find a purpose, but you can't find one.

Sorry, I don't understand that last line.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

You think that life, existence, etc. is pointless, because you can mentally grasp all of those things, at least at the abstract level necessary, and you see that it's self-contained, and there's nothing else for it to affect (or at least, what it affects is inside the same closed system).

Can you name anything with a point to it? Whatever you might try, it can be rationalized to the point that it's only worth itself, and doesn't impact anything outside of it.

Then, everything is pointless. However, somethings are more pointless than others (e.g., watching the grass grow vs. finishing a level of education). So why not redefine your scale of worth so that only the truly pointless things are pointless, and the not that useless things are called useful?

Surely it is useless (sorry) to have a scale of usefulness with nothing on one side of it.

Suppose SCO won in court and Linux were effectively destroyed. What would it really impact, in the end? Then why do we fight so much against SCO?

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[SanGrail]

I feel bad when I don't buy my products carefully.

Yes, it's in the April edition of Scientific American. It's not "Affluent White Male Guilt", it's the inevitable freakout experienced by people who believe they have to make the best possible decision in any circumstance, when that's really not possible considering the amount of choice we're exposed to these days.

See: Scientific American April '04

Suggestion?
Deal with it. Accept that not only will you not always make the best decision, most of the time you don't need too.
Once a choice has been made - don't worry about it. Your mental happiness is more valuable than the money you may or may not have saved, so if you're worrying, stop, and see if there's something that you'd prefer to be thinking about, rather than (ironically) wasting time worrying!

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[sylvester]

Yes, it's in the April edition of Scientific American. It's not "Affluent White Male Guilt", it's the inevitable freakout experienced by people who believe they have to make the best possible decision in any circumstance, when that's really not possible considering the amount of choice we're exposed to these days.

I've been cognizant of that aspect of things for a long time. I wrote a slashdot comment about it a couple years ago.

I don't feel guilty for the things I can't do. Or at least, not much. I feel guity for the things I can do, should do, and don't -- usually out of laziness or selfishness. There's nothing particularly wrong about that, either. The point is I should do more, do better, exercise the luck I've been granted, not that I should miraculously be able to make all good decisions all the time.

Once a choice has been made - don't worry about it. Your mental happiness is more valuable than the money you may or may not have saved, so if you're worrying, stop, and see if there's something that you'd prefer to be thinking about, rather than (ironically) wasting time worrying!

Woah. I don't feel guilty for not saving money! That has nothing to do with it. The kind of things I'm refering to are environmental, health and labour impact of my purchases.

-Rob

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[SparafucileMan]

Because usefulness and pointlessness are concepts that only mean something inside of the system in question. Once you go outside and start introducing thing, you can do whatever you want. You could define a scale in terms of 'sex' or 'jungle gyms' and come to the same conclusions. The problem is that you can't break out of the system while maintaining any link to it, so, again, what's the point? There is no point, so any point is a point, so.... do what you _feeel_, just realize you can't justify any of it with logic or reason or your brain or whatever u wanna call it.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[SparafucileMan]

Whoops, you're assuming that you can define 'intelligence' within the system in question ;)

Personally I fluctuate between thinking i'm a genius and a stupid dumb fuck who thinks about sex way too much. But, you know, it all works out in the long run.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Doctor O]

> All of which are overrated.

Speaks the one who supposedly isn't married and has no kids. Actually this little guy who is my son is the greatest thing that ever happened to me, and I expect his sibling, to be born in December, to be the same.

YMMV, though. I know people who don't like their kids at all, so it's all a point-of-view-thing. To put it short: Don't rate things like that.

While we're at it, IMO the divorce rate simply is a sign that people today are completely incapable of getting over problems in a constructive way. The generation of our grandparents for sure had lots of problems with their partners, too, they just didn't say "fuck it, I'll get divorced and look for that perfect person" immediately like many people today do. Newsflash: This person usually doesn't exist, and if you love someone enough to marry him/her, he/she definitely is worth the hard work it takes to keep your marriage intact. Our grandparents understood this. And no, I don't think it was because being divorced was unpopular then, it was because people had much more discipline.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[Doctor O]

Coincidentally, this is what Nietzsche said, too. Reading this felt like freeing my mind of a heavy burden.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[JohnFluxx]

I think as people get older, they change. It's not really surprisingly that people that were compatible before, are no longer.
What's the point in staying with someone that you aren't happy with? There's only so much trying you can do.

Our grandparents were the types that stayed together even when one was being beaten by the other, or they totally miserable, etc.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[quinkin]

"Personally I fluctuate between thinking i'm a genius and a stupid dumb fuck who thinks about sex way too much."

Wow - My life summed up in a sentence...

Q.

Re:Good Luck Buddy...

[quinkin]

Yeah I could make my own, but what's the point... *SIGH*

"I used to be a communist, then I was an aethiest, now I'm just a pessimist." -- Lloyd Walters

Q.

Re:Need some insight? Read Harry Poter.

[Anonymous Coward]

He's passed out on a park bench and all anyone wants to know is "where's the check?"

If that doesn't perfectly describe modern society, nothing will.

Pessimistic advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember that you are a unique individual, differing from every other human being on the planet...

Just like everyone else! :p
RsG

Climb A Mountain

[N8F8]

Or try some other seriously challenging task. You'll learn a lot about yourself and other people.

Mod parent as TROLL

[scatter_gather]

I can't belive we can't mod the article instead of just the comments. This is obviously a troll.

Sophmoric

[Anonymous Coward]

thats how it come off too me...technically that implies second year of study, so i suppose "above average" is an appropriate eval

This may help you.

[Anonymous Coward]

I went on a long search to find similar answers to what you are talking about two years ago. We seem to share some common character so I will share some info with you.

The key in in my case was to find out how my brain is wired and then what I needed to do in order to adapt to the "standard" methods of learning/teaching. There are many resources on the Internet to help you out. The first thing you could do is take a Myers Briggs test and learn just what personality type you are and how far on each side you go. Most people are somewhat in the middle but sometimes people are quite far from the middle of the 4 areas. When that happens you don't fall in to the "normal" profile any more and it can cause great difficulty in school. I am no expert in this field but you COULD be what is called a "Global Learner". I myself am a global learner and here are some of the things I do to adapt.

All ways read over the course material BEFORE class. Get a good idea of what is going to be taught and where the class is headed for that day.
If the teacher does not provide an overview at the beginning of class or let you know what will be covered next class let them know that if they do it will help you greatly in your studies.

Here are two URL that you can read. The may help you out.

Good luck!

http://www.humanmetrics.com (Myers-Briggs Test)
http://www.uncw.edu/cte/soloman_felder.htm (Learning styles descriptions.)
http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/ Columns/Susangle nda.html (Global/Sequential story)

One Rule

[Anonymous Coward]

After you've gone through college with a degree you hope contributes to a "career".....and after filtering down the field of potential jobs and accepting an offer.....

Always remember who's signing your paycheck. If you think you're smarter than your boss - you may be, but at the end of the two week cycle, they're the one you're there to make look good.

And mister jetson, welcome to Coggswell Inc.

I am uniquely bright

[sashang]

and have a long attention span for reading slashdot.

Happines. The holy grail

[maggern]

I'm not really smart, however, I had a real hard time dealing with the bastards at my school who could not deal with smart people.

Being smart doesnt mean servering other people. It's like the movie Good Will Hunting. Like any other thing, it's up to you.

What is genius? Genius is making things simple. Because simple is genius. Since you surely have read philosophy, you must know that "happiness is where you find it". Simple and stupid? Yes, but that's the way it is. Being a human and person imply theese simple conclusions.

You can't save the world, do what you can, save yourself :-D

Focus, Grasshoper

[ta0]

Your will must overcome your wandering intellect.

Pick a goal, and move towards it. You may lose interest in the details along the way, but keep in mind your ultimate goal, and use that as motivation to re-focus on the details.

Without a focus, you will be at the mercy of your mind. Instead, endeavor to use your intellect as a tool to move yourself along.

"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion." -Frank Herbert's DUNE

Don't Rely on School

[Anonymous Coward]

I am much like you, but 10 years older. My advice to you is to get through school as soon as possible, and then find work. Work is where the real learning begins, and also where you can start using your power as someone who understands technical devices (99% of the pop don't) to levage that knowlege to your benefit.

Do little things for other people at work, things that help them work easier (scripts, text parsing, autoformatting -- anything that programming can help with). I guarantee you will become one of the most popular and powerful people there.

Re:Don't Rely on School

[Anonymous Coward]

"I guarantee you will become one of the most popular and powerful people there."

Unless the people you help are competing for jobs and promotions. Then you will get nowhere. You cannot trust people you work with not to shit on you.

Do those little things for people who make hiring decisions, not for just anybody.

Be flexible

[johnlcallaway]

I didn't go to college, yet my yearly income puts me into the upper middle-class range. My personal opinion is that formal college degrees are a waste of time for people that are smart and are willing to work hard. (Although I think technical colleges are vastly underrated and that for some careers, like medicine, college is unavoidable.) I go to where I am today by working hard, learning how to discuss, accept and support decisions made by others even when I disagree with them.

Remember that no one is indespensible no matter how good you are or how much you know. Now that you know that, be prepared to take on any task your boss asks. I remember licking envelopes when I was a programmer back in the 80s because the bank needed it done.

Second off, whatever you do, do it the best you can. A few years ago, I was loaned out as a consultant to a partner company for some vague technical skills task, but when I got there I found out all they needed was someone to sit in meetings and take minutes and publish them. Some people might have felt that it was beneath them. But if they were willing to pay my company $100/hour for my taking minutes, they were going to be the best damned minutes anyone had ever seen. After awhile, because I offered up opinions during meetings, people mentioned that I was over-qualified. But then I mentioned the above comment about the best damned minutes, and they were absolutley grateful that I was doing the task I was because the needed it done, and they were the best damned meeting minutes anyone had done. They repeatedly told my company's CIO and CEO what a great employee I was. Was I sucking up?? Maybe. But I got paid the same regardless. It was only for 3 months, and it was the most stress-free 3 months in my entire career. Besides, those CIOs and CEOs are the ones that decide who stays and goes during layoffs.

Thirdly, don't let them take advantage of you and be honest if they try. I've been through the 80 hour work weeks and was very honest with my boss about how long I was willing to do so. He pushed it, and I pushed back, albiet very lightly. I eventually left, but it was very cordial and he called me back from time to time to ask if I needed a job. That was very handy when I was laid off several years later.

Fourth, don't whine. If something is broke, offer up the problem and a solution to whoever is in charge. It's one thing to go to your manager and whine about the project being late, it's another to point out why it is going to be late, and what needs to be done to correct it. Whiners get ignored and become a pain in the arse.

Lastly, when opportunities present themselves to advance, grab them even if it means shifting careers. I started out as an office clerk, but jumped at a computer operator position, then started learning COBOL for my next jump. In my current job, I am the go-to guy when no one else can fix a problem because over the last 25 years I kept current with programing languages, took sys admin, network admin, telecom admin and database admin responsibilities in different systems and learned them all. Now, I can get all these folks into a room whenever there is a finger-pointing problem and keep them there until the problem is fixed. That is very valuable; I am known around the company as the guy you can't BS and my CEO knows that not only am I the guy to get things fixed, I am also the one who can do the work if needed no matter where the problem is. Guess who will not get laid off the next round.

Should you go to college?? If you want to, go. If you want to go into debt up to your eyeballs go ahead. There's nothing wrong with that and it might help you get a great job in 4 years. But if you are as bright as you think you are then get an entry position anywhere that offers tuition reimbursement and be the best warehouse/factory/secretary or whatever you can be. Take all the night courses you can on their dime, then watch the internal job postings and apply for anything you might be qualified for that improves your sal

Re:Be flexible

[marcushnk]

Mod this guy up.. he's speaking for more than just himself.

I'll add to it by saying that The education system doesn't work for all people.. and that some of us learn better and faster by DOING.

Also.. you'll probably find that you pay attention ALL the time were as most other people go through life only using their eyes ears and brains when they have to... but using their mouth ALL THE TIME.

lastly, remember that no matter how good you are or think you are... there is always, ALWAYS someone better than you out there and if you strive to BE that person then you'll never go to far wrong in life.

Don't be so hard on the guy,...

[Anonymous Coward]

... he sounds like an alright kid to me. Maybe he really is a bright kid that's just trying to look to his future. He'll learn to be down on himself later (after he gets laid off a couple of times, for example).

Don't listen to the usual slashdot half-wits. If you really are who you think you are, then you'll do fine. If your not, either you are bright enough to figure it out at some point, or your not, and you won't. Either way, you'll be happy.

Don't worry about college. It's a real pain, but it can be worth it. Don't listen to the people who say college is about jumping through flaming hoops only so you can get a job. They either didn't go to school, or they didn't get the point while they were there. Just find something you like, and learn as much as you can stand about it; you will be okay.

Oh, and I wouldn't worry about your description of yourself. You just described every competent engineer I've ever worked with (at some early point in there life). Now the only test is what you do with it. Go to school, or get a job, but have fun.

Enjoy education

[Anonymous Coward]

I left school early after getting into lots of trouble, getting the longest Guidance Counsellor report in the school. I did manual factory/driving work for a few years. I went riding to Afghanistan on my bicycle (a two year journey), then back home, and worked laying ceramic tiles for a few years till I lost interest in it.

Then I went riding by bicycle through a few thousand miles of desert with a friend, when I realised that I wanted to get back into electronics, as that's what I loved playing with in my early teens, till I'd left home.

So I went back to college, did a 1 year full-time course covering the final two years of high school. It was wonderful! I chose English, Physics, History, Maths, Chemistry, and loved every subject! It was my own choice; no one was forcing me, and it was a nice change not being accused of being on drugs by the headmaster.

I did very well, and went on to study Electrical Engineering and computer science at the university of my choice. I enjoyed that too, though I didn't do as well as I thought I would. My ability to organise my activities is very poor, though finally it's beginning to improve.

I lived in academia for eleven years, and was viewed as a technical person who enjoyed his work and cares about his students; many other lecturers would have rather been doing something else.

I do not claim to be a genius or a world changer, but I love my life, I love my wife and my son, and I am retiring early, and look forward to more enjoyment of sharing activities with my darling son and wife. My life is my choice, and I am so grateful that I had the opportunity to study again, even though I was poor.

If I were going to univerity again...

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Major in something that interests you. Do not major in something just for the money. If your not sure I'd recommend a junior college so you don't go broke finding out college is not for you.

2. Goto a school with a good academic reputation and small class sizes. Small class size is important because it makes it easeir to ask questions and get insight from your prof. Avoid commuter schools.

3. Keep your books. You might not remember everything but you'll likely remember what book its in!

4. I remember being frustrated that my engineering teachers would not teach me practical skills. They always taught base concepts: trig, calculus, physics, chemestry, etc... Why? A product may become obsolete but core principles last a life time. You'll have plenty of time to learn technician skills in industry.

5. Join clubs and do the 'extra' social stuff. You'll look back and appreciate it.

6. Network and make as many friends as possible. You might get to know tomorrows Nobel prize winner or leaders. You might meet that chick.

Re:If I were going to univerity again...

[Anonymous Coward]

> If your not sure I'd recommend a junior college

Even in the first year at junior college, you should, rather must, write better than this.

You need to make up your mind first.

[jelle]

It looks to me like you first need to do some soul searching into who you really are and what you really want to do in life. Example:

First you say "I'm incredibly intense and concentrated, yet I often become bored of specific projects in a few months." but later you say "My attention span is practically unlimited when I am interested in a topic, and I get intensely interested in it."

And you say you love to learn, and people tell you you should be getting very good grades at school, but you don't. Do you want to learn or not? (and how/where?).

You need to make up your mind. That means doing two things: making a choice and then setting a goal. Stop waiting what the day brings you, but take the day to where you want it to go. Take charge of your own life.

You seem interested in many things, but keep getting worried that you're missing something better if you stick with it, hence the feeling of boredom sets in. Independent of whether you actually do have attention problems and can't stick with something, or possibly you do have a practically unlimited attention span (but you are still not sure what for) what you need to do is look farther into the future and set an ambitious goal. Imagine yourself 10 years from now, and what it would take for you to see yourself being happy and successful. I'm saying you and yourself and I mean it, don't go for the bland 'commonly accepted definitions' of happyness and success, but what really is it that makes you happy and what would you consider a success when you look at yourself 10 years from now. For some people that means having a family of your own (loving wife & kids), for others a particular career (money, respect, power), for others a particular social position in society (love, respect, power), and for some it is linked to a geographical place, or other people, or a particular surrounding, also religion may be a factor, etc.

It can help to add the 10 years to your age and search for people in that age group that can (partly) serve as a role model or guide. Your personal role models don't have to be alive, or currently in the target age group, but it can be very helpful to research 'what did eeeee do when he/she was that age'.

When you know where and what you want to be in the future, that will tell you exactly what steps to take now and will help you make all those smaller choices needed to get there.

Just my 2cts worth...

Myself I feel like I'm just in the process of achieving current long-term goals and I must say that I am happy and feel successful, and now I am searching for a new goal. I am confident I will have a much clearer picture of it by the end of this year, and for you: I hope you do too.

Best advice for college...

[Dave21212]

From a fellow INTP, been there, done that...

I've had the best success when I approached a class a a 'new game' rather than an opportunity to learn. If you think that college is a citadel of learning, you are in for a big reality check. I have a pal who holds several degrees (BS, MS, going for the MBA) and he put it best, "Professors are not there to teach you. They are there to give you a grade. And I mean 'give you' the grade they feel you deserve."

They are people just like you and I, no more and no less. Imagine yourself as a professor for a moment.

Ok, so it's a game. The object of the game is to get a professor to give you a good grade. Learn who they are, how they operate, what they expect, and do some work.

My favorite example is a Socio-cultural Anthropology class I took (requirement filler). The prof. was about as PC as they get. We had two texts and an autobiography to read. I managed a B without opening any of them (just to see if I could do it I think.) I just answered the insanely easy multiple-guess exams in the most PC way I could. I hit it right on the head, that's what she wanted us to "learn" - the PC crap, not any real anthropology methodology (hint: we had movies to watch ever other week, that was a dead givaway we were not going to 'learn' anything).

Anyway, enough of my ramblings... remember, college is a big new game to you. One that you haven't learned the rules to yet, that you haven't mastered yet, that's rather difficult and many people can't master. It's the grade game ultimately, with a side bet on if you manage to make a few close friends there and learn a bit from it as you go. Go win it if you think you can ;)

p.s. I'm a hotshot developer with a good job I enjoy, and I almost finished my BS (got enticed by the boom, or more precisely, the money that was available back in the 90's). I may still get that degree yet !

learn to work hard

[kencurry]

If your dumb (and just think your smart) you'll need it.

if you are really are smart, you'll quickly find out that means shit, and you'll still need to work hard.

Life's not hard to figure out if you quit being lazy.

Re:Own business - the only way to fly.

[Anonymous Coward]

"The reason for this is that people who are not unusually bright mistakenly believe that intelligent people make them look stupid."

The entire comment is right on target. While I wouldn't have said it as crudely, cubicledrone co-opted my answer.

After wasting 15 years of my life dealing with clueless, self-aggrandizing cretins, I now work for myself and have done well separating those obnoxious people from their money. I think of that while I am enjoying life and my old bosses are selling used cars 6 days a week.

Living well is _always_ the best revenge.

Re:A few words of advice from someone who understa

[rugwuk]

I schooled in Malvern - on the border of Wales. Then Newcastle Poly, Then Newcastle Uni, Then work :-(. Newcastle great city BTW. They know how to have fun, assuming you have no use for a liver in the future. Edinburgh a great city, lives there for your years, and had a great time as well. It's safe to say that education system is not set up for people like you and me. Watch out for, "this is the way to do things" type statements. Bad sign especially from a lecturer who won;t engage your line of questioning. Normally cos they're not as bright as you are! Anyway, enjoy it and don;t become obsessed with it, it doesn;t help. As Nike says just do it.

You're not that smart...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't get over yourself quickly, you're heading for a horrendous dissapointment.

I know I'm smarter than most people. I got my PhD by the time I was 25. Did you?

Don't say how smart you are. Show the world by doing something with those brains.

One of the "First"

[Seraphim_72]

I was one of the first "unique and talented" kids in the program started in the country. They tracked us for years afterward. Originally they took IQ tests (yeah, they are all flawed gimme a break, I was 10 at the time) and sorted us into groups. My parents and me were called in so that they could tell us that I was as smart as Edison, or maybe even Einstein. I was just smart enough to know what that meant (circular - heh) I grew up, did all the normal kid stuff, got plenly of "F"'s while teachers told me "ST, you know the material better than anyone, but you didn't turn in the paper" Why would I? It was elementary stuff. I did well in High school, had a lot of friends, wasn't a "nerd" by any stretch. But, I was always different - always odd. Years later - I looked into the study that I was part of ...they had lost track of me years ago - but thier remaining people fit into three categories. Much to my shock - I fit the bill of one of them to a "T" ... very weird - sorry for the ramble but here is the point - Sir, you will only find happiness if you can find a job that needs an expert Generalist, sounds odd, but there are a few out there, think advisor to the King types. Your trials( I assume you are much younger than I) are just starting. I post this AC - but if I can be of help respond to this and I will hellp you as much as I can.

Re:One of the "First"

[Seraphim_72]

carp - so much for AC ... DOH

Bored?

[karniv0re]

...yet I often become bored of specific projects in a few months.

Then I wouldn't advise being a developer.

My Story

[jrivar59]

I could swear this ask slashdot was written by me 1 years ago and is now coming back to haunt me. It describes me perfectly, even the INTP part.

First, my history:

In high school I hated school but loved learning. I was the kid that would stay late or eat lunch with the physics teacher talking about stephen hawking and light properties but still managed to flunk physics. I was taking AP chemistry collage classes my senior year but still managed to drop out of high school in '94. I think the many of US public schools are very effective at not doing much with bright but poorly disiplined/motived students. I don't blame the school for my failure, but boy, they sure didn't help.

As a drop out, I actually went to collage for a year (managed to fudge my diploma to the collage) but that was futile, I hated school and would skip class to go the library.

Luckily I ended up as a LAN consultant because in those days you could be an arrogant genious kid and still get hired. I learned the ropes and fudged around for a bit and in '99 I got hired for a major software company and became a consultant. Luckily my experience and smarts held the glue together for awhile, and during those .com days you pretty much just needed to show up to get a very well-paying good job and gain lots of experenice.

Today I've managed to survive a zillion lay off rounds and keep a great job.

However now it's 10 years later and I'm completely stuck in that great job that is also now a dead end job. Without a degree of any kind, and if someone looks close enough, without a diploma, it's tough to advance at all. Advancing in my own company to management requires a degree, and the job market, although picking up now is still tough with outsourcing an over abundance of candidates and two years of the best people afraid to move around moving around now.

For the last 10 years, not having a degree hasn't mattered. Being smart helped, but I've been lucky a lot too especially with the dot.bomb timing.

Now at 28, I'm seriously considering doing school full time again, but man, It feels like its going to be even worse now then when i was 18.

My point of all this is that the biggest fear and agony in my life, school, is more burdensome now then ever.

In my life I've learned that the longer you put off something the worse it gets, and school is worse then the dentist in this case. In addition, I lucked out with .com, you might not be so lucky.

School isn't for making you smart. It doesn't make anyone smart, that's easily illustrated every year by thousands of morons with a degree. However it proves your reliable, motivated and trainable, three traits far more important to your career then intelligence.

I'm not saying I regret my past, because I still feel the total anxiety of formal education at my door now (so I remember what it was then), but boy, how much better shape the rest of my life would be in now if I had even a crappy diploma from a piss-ant party school.

I would go on more about how your intelligence won't help you in life, but it actually will. It will help you land on your feet more often then not. But it will also make you lazy.

You know for a fact that if your really that smart, that there's no reason you CANT get 4.0's. It has much to do with the concept that your a perfectionist and feel unsatisfied doing less then perfect work, so better not to do it at all. It has much to do with the concept that you already know it so why bother doing the activity. These are habits of thinking that will ruin your life.

I would, seriously, recommend therapy or sessions with a psychologist. They won't help so much as it will force you to explain yourself to someone who knows better on a periodic bases so that you can't do what really smart people are good at: fooling themselves!

INTP's have a tough road.

Schools, parents fail brightest - must save selves

[Adamis3]

Having been been identified as gifted, I can tell you that it's not always easy. I wound up being expelled from high school for asking questions in class. The problem was that the teachers couldn't answer the questions, and didn't know what to do about it. I went to work at 16. I didn't finish college until my late twenties. Go somewhere - where depends on where you live. Take an interest inventory. I like JEVS, but there are others. You can get it free, most states. Don't consider any major, any career area, which does not max on the results. Also, work style matters big time. It's inborne. Hard to change, don't bother trying. Head for something that fits your workstyle. These things don't change, short of brain surgery. Also don't trust colleges to advise on choice of career or vocational areas. Their staff don't generally know what they are doing. I'm in the field. I know.

Please mod parent down

[Anonymous Coward]

-5 troll

A bit of advice

[oogoliegoogolie]

Don't expect to find the answers in others, look inside yourself for them.

You know what you like, what you dislike, and have an idea of what you want to do. Follow your heart; be your own person, meaning do the things you want to do, believe in the things you want to believe in. Don't do things because someone else does them and you think they are cool and you want to be like them. If you were really like that person then it would be you there instead of you looking at them. Look to others for advice, as mentors,for help, but in the end make your own decisions.

As far as you thinking that you are a genius but never get to show it, get over it. Everyone sometime in their life thinks they are special and it is their destiny to change the world and are just waiting for the right moment for their destiny to be fulfilled. For 99.9999% of the people on this planet it never happens or they never make it happen because they are preoccupied with finding out what they should do instead of just going out and doing it, and then end up settling for M-F, 9-5. Focus on what you like and what you want. This will make you happy. Enjoying life is the most important thing in life, and if you succeed at this then all the rest will fall into place.

developing your skills and intelligence

[unobtainium2004]

(This reply was written originally as guidance for a mother who was raising a "gifted" child. I believe you may find it relevant to your own organization and development. As with everything, question authority and take these words with a grain of salt.) I am 50 years old and have been labeled gifted since early childhood. I recently joined mensa and am learning about the formalities of managing my intelligence. I attended public school in the US. I required speech therapy (a long story, but essentially I could think much faster than I could speak. Beginning around the age of ten, I received permission from my teachers to work independently and was permitted to structure my own time as long as I also completed studies on time. This continued through high school. I persued my interests in electronics and communications during adolesence and my teen age years. I wasn't college bound, I apprecnticed as a cabinetmaker and earned a living for 15 years as a furniture maker/antiques conservator. I entered college when my son was five and ready for school himself. I studied electrical engineering and co-enrolled in the school of education to become certified as an elementary school art teacher. Since then I have worked for a national public radio affliate as a broadcast engineer, usatoday as a satellite receiving earth station engineer, and as a director of apple computer technology in higher education. Presently I write educational courseware and license my work to schools and businesses. Based on my experience the following resources should prove helpful to you: Access-help him become familiar with the diversity of resources available to him (schools, libraries, the web, museums, people, books, places, experiences, conciousness, spiritual studies, health, games, play, physical education and experiences such as sports, gardening, sandbox play, mountain clibing, swimming, etc.) people-show him patience and understanding so he may share with other people. help him recognize everyone has a story to tell and experiences from which we can learn. organization-help establish and maintain a work/study area for him, including a desk, worktable, supplies, library, idea scrapbook, portfolio, bulletin board, chalk board, etc. encourage him to keep a daily journal/scrapbook/idea book/picture book/scrapbook. help him maintain a file cabinet with folders for topics representing his past, present, and future interests. correspondence-help identify people whith whom he shares interest and encourage him to write and correspond. I have shared correspondence with the inventor of the polaroid camera, several electrical engineers, authors, newspaper journalists, broadcast journalists, lawyers, and medical doctors. discussion and debate-engage your son in discussion and debate about what he's doing, about what people he knows are doing, about current affairs and news, and right and wrong, about believing in yourself and in others, about parenting and about being a child. understanding-help your son develop understanding by comparing and contrasting his knowledge and experiences with similar and different knowledge and experience. help him recognize the layers of perception, the context of perception, and how understanding deepens in time as we acquire additional experience and knowledge. perspective-encourage him to review his journal, to practice comparison between then and now, to recognize the forces and energies, and tensions which contribute to change and eveolution. help him trust his insight as he reviews his experience and forms understanding. arts-remember to help him get his hands dirty, to be frustrated working with uncooperative materials and mediums, and how we are perfect as imperfect human beings. the point of art, to me, is to play, experiement, imitate, emulate, and innovate. the messier the better in the beginning as long as we learn to clean up after ourselves. crafts-developing the disciplines of cabinetmaking, drawing, painting, ceramics, sculpting, weaving, assembling, disassembling, reassembling wi

Take oddball courses and challenge your self-image

[tentimestwenty]

You're probably going to hate college/university if you've hated school up to this point. Most people/programs at the collegiate level are pretty dumb and focus strongly on learning by rote, passing tests and writing cookie-cutter essays. If you really are bright you won't be challenged by 99% of the courses offered- best just to read some books. If you're intent on going (and you pretty much have to unless you're also a good entrepreneur) my advice is to first take courses that you wouldn't rationally want to take. Take drama, science of sound, taxidermy or whatever you can that has a twist to it. You're likely to find similarly bright people in these courses. Some of them will be plain geniuses in a variety of weird ways. I took visual art which is really one of the only explorative disciplines. I was lucky to have some exceptionally gifted teachers and our program was heavily philosophically based. In short, it was a bunch of crazy creative geniuses who were all learning about "meta" things. It was probably the only thing that saved me from complete despair after high school. The people I met were challenging and intense and the environment was rich for arbitrary boundary definitions. The courses at times were mind-blowing, but in the best way, there was always something coming next that was better, and always different.

As others have pointed out, this kind of nurturing and challenging environment goes a long way to "getting over yourself" and onto the path of doing something worthwhile with your brightness. In the end, if you believe you're bright you have to test your character by doing something great, failing repeatedly, and finally finding your true path. Unless you stick yourself in the midst of people at least as bright as you (and why not go for the cream of the crop?) you will forever hold yourself in some false and paralysing image.

Bah, INTPs

[Anonymous Coward]

You are a bunch of hippies. It is us INTJs that get the job done. ;)

The author DIDN'T claim perfection, or genius

[Howzer]

So all the posters with the "you're not that smart" bullshit can just recognise that bile for the jealousy it is.

Look - there's probably no way you're going to read this because there's over 300 posts here already - if you get to see this, go to my user page and send me an email.

I know dozens like you, in fact I hire people like you constantly.

There are a few things you need to know, and I can put you in touch with people just like you to talk about it.

Re:The author DIDN'T claim perfection, or genius

[wk633]

If you hire people like him constantly, perhaps some general career advice? For what jobs do you seek that type? How do you recognize the type from a resume? I'm sure he's not the only one reading.

General question, does anyone put their MBTI on their resume?

I told him to work for himself. I had another thought though- I know a community college CS instructor like that. Teaching pays the bills, and gives him time to research/work on whatever he wants. Whenever he needs more money for something, he gets a contract for something. I think the key is building up a reputation to have enough people looking for you talents whenever YOU'RE interested in doing the work.

Many types of skill

[daviddennis]

I think a high percentage of the people here are pretty smart, because Slashdot really doesn't have much for people who are not. That being said, since we're debater-types, we tend to be a little mean-spirited. I apologise on behalf of my fellow Slashdot users for the insulting tone of many of these messages.

The fellow who edited your comment mentioned that you were probably an INTP. This is true; so am I. This means that you are devoted to finding logical solutions to problems, and are dreamy and absent-minded if you're not involved in something that interests you. This would seem to fit your educational profile to a "T".

About 1% of the population are INTPs. Since they're logical and like designing things, they tend to gravitate towards computing as a career, so you see a very high percentage of them here.

Perhaps the most revealing thing about the Meyers-Briggs type indicator, which is where these strange four-letter acronyms come from, is that people are very different, and many of the differences can be described by a simple formula. I've found that even with very complex people, the Meyers-Briggs attributes make it easier to deal with them and understand at least parts of how their minds work.

A good example of how people think is based on logic. When I was younger, I thought logic was the be-all and end-all, and that it was simply impossible to make sense of contradictions. Now I understand that there are people who don't care about contradition; they just care about getting work done and if this means doing things that are not strictly logical, well, that's what will be done and that's what they need. This is very important to understand when programming systems such as reports which may have seemingly contradictory attributes. A pure INTP would simply say its not possible to do them. An INTP with some seasoning and social understanding will try very hard to untangle the contradictions and find a solution that works.

Many times the best type of person for you is someone very different from you. People who use feelings to make decisions, for example, are capable of deep love and can make wonderful relationships. People who are strictly logical wind up looking cold and characterless, both to that type of person and to each other. So if you check out the Meyers-Briggs and use it to classify people, don't forget the feelers. They may bring some much-needed passion into your life.

Now, it's worth noting that types are not the be-all and end-all. They don't describe everything about a person. I have dated a couple of INFJs, and they've always been special to me. It's clear to me that I have a real affinity to that type of person. But both of them were very different and distinct people, despite having similar basic personalities. The one I'm involved with now is a wonderful creative artist who has brought much joy into my life.

I've used these four-letter acronyms so much I feel like i should explain the MBTI a little. Full knowledge of it takes whole books, but at the root, it's simple. There are four different attributes that define a personality in the MBTI:

Introvert/Extrovert (I/E). Are you energised by being with other people, or by being alone?

iNtuitive/Sending (N/S). Do you concentrate on things as they are (sensing) or as they should be (Intuition)? Do you think of things as concrete facts (Sensing) or Principles (Ntuitive)? As an iNtuitive person, I get along much better with my fellow dreamers than with those bores who are sunk in drab reality.

Thinking/Feeling (T/F). Do you make decisions based on objective fact (Thinking) or by the effects they have on others (Feeling)? Most people in the computer field are thinkers. A large percentage of women are feelers. This is why computing is such a male-dominated field, and why computer people tend not to have a good understanding of the opposite sex.

Perceiving/Judging. Do you have a clean desk (Judging) or a messy desk (Perceiving)? Do you pre

Re:Many types of skill

[xnixman]

In case you didn't read all of this crap he said, "I'm gay, I read too many self-help books, and I wish I worked in HR."

Dan

Re:Many types of skill

[dbullock]

Slashdot is not just for those who are pretty smart. It's primarily for those who want to bathe in the group meme, patting each other on the back repeating the same tired chestnuts.

I read slashdot with my filters cranked up high only because they do a decent job collecting often interesting news. The comments with exception of a small few are usually pretty worthless retreads.

Slashdot is for the most part, the ultimate pickmeup for the members of the herd when the individual members feel insecure, and need a pickmeup that's only a few clicks away.

Re:Many types of skill

[Spyky]

I just thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents.

As I was reading the description of this individual I said to myself: that sounds a lot like me. Then I saw the INTP comment added, and I am also an INTP, and very strongly so.

I'm currently having trouble getting motivated to do my Master's Thesis, not because I'm uninterested in the subject, but because I can't bring myself to write the damn proposal, which is dreadfully boring. But I can't go much further until I have my proposal approved.

Anyway, to the original poster. Definitely do something you enjoy. Computers are an ideal field, but maintain varied out-of-school activities to keep you sane. I think you will find that the college experience is far better suited to your personality than high-school. As long as you choose a major that you enjoy, you will find yourself in far fewer classes that bore you.

My GPA has gotten higher for every year since I've left HS as my focus has become ever more specialized towards what I really enjoy.

Best of luck to you. Now I've got to get off Slashdot so I can write my proposal!

-Spyky

Re:Many types of skill

[Anonymous Coward]

I think a high percentage of the people here are pretty smart

Umm... right.

Re:Many types of skill

[Anonymous Coward]

i agree with everything you just said.

props.

Re:Many types of skill

[NanoGator]

"Slashdot is for the most part, the ultimate pickmeup for the members of the herd when the individual members feel insecure, and need a pickmeup that's only a few clicks away."

Kinda like watching Married with Children, iddnt it?

Re:Many types of skill

[Anonymous Coward]

INTP? QED

http://skepdic.com/myersb.html

Re:Many types of skill

[MrHanky]

I agree with most of what you said, but not:

...filters cranked up high only because they do a decent job collecting often interesting news.

The easy way to 5, insightful on Slashdot is posting something obvious, before anyone else does it. The moderation system sucks because people mod up stuff they agree with, and mod down things they disagree with. This leads to that controversial and interesting posts are living a dynamic life between 0, flamebait and 4, troll, and kills real -- intelligent -- discussion. Most people are capable of having an intelligent discussion, but those are quite rare on Slashdot. However, there are some interesting points in between. But no, this isn't one of them.

Re:Many types of skill

[dbullock]

The easy way to 5, insightful on Slashdot is posting something obvious, before anyone else does it. To clarify I have funny negatively meta modded down - nothing worse than geek humor. I quite often DO pick up interesting things from people who post and are highly modded, but you're right most of the highly modded posts are just groupthink.

Re:Many types of skill

[sphealey]

Interesting comments. While I also find the Meyers-Briggs analysis to be of some use, I would suggest that you keep in mind it (like any psychological classification scheme) is very similar to formal economics as taught in Western countries: a framework that can help you analyze and understand a situation. But it is a framework, not reality or even a testable model such as you might find in Newtonian physics. Only one of many or several possible frameworks, which may be valid or overlappings. And of particular appeal to people who like to classify people into groups - but which requires the assumption that classifying people into groups is a meaningful thing to do.

sPh

Re:Many types of skill

[Anonymous Coward]

And in case you couldn't read between the lines, this guy said, "I have the emotional maturity of a 13-year-old boy, I don't like to read, and I wish the folks in HR didn't hate me."

Re:Many types of skill

[daviddennis]

As I said in my original post, it doesn't explain everything about a person. My artist friend doesn't like to be pigeonholed, and she is a unique individual. But at the same time she is very much an INFJ and that helps me relate to her quirks. This is a Very Good Thing, and far better than having no framework at all.

Taking types past a certain point seems to fail. For instance, the Kiersey book says that NTs are attracted to NFs, which I believe to be true. PersonalityPage says an INTP is better off with an ENTJ or ESTJ. That's entirely contradictory advice, which makes me think this field is not well understood, and perhaps depends hugly on other personality attributes that are not part of the MBTI. It's easy for a NT to be scared off by the NF's spirit world, populated by astrology, crazy symbols and spirit guides. But I am so in tune with my NF friend in other ways that I willingly explore those parts of her, something I wouldn't be as interested in if I didn't know that they are an integral part of what makes her special.

In the end, I enjoy the MBTI because it really helps me understand what makes people tick, even when they are extremely different from me. And that's an extremely valuable skill to have.

D

Re:Many types of skill

[Anonymous Coward]

Through most of my life, I've felt similarly; Intellectual curiosity about something is a big motivation for actually sitting down and doing it. I flitted around a lot in college, and finally landed in computers after graduating with a degree in geology. I'm an INTP.

The biggest selling point you'll have is your ability and willingness to learn and apply new things on a frequent basis. Consulting suggests itself here, but is not the only option. Talk to people in different jobs and find which job tracks have these properties.

I found a job at an understaffed startup, so working intensely on several different projects simultaneously on short timescales worked out well for a while. It went away with the bust, though. I'm back in school.

One thing I found worked pretty well while I was working was to keep taking classes - one a semester, part time. It'll help to divide your attention a bit, and look good on your resume too.

Oh, and if you have a chance to transfer, go to a college on the quarter system instead of semesters. You take fewer classes for a shorter length of time; it supports a shorter attention span well.

Re:Many types of skill

[indiechild]

I've found that even with very complex people, the Meyers-Briggs attributes make it easier to deal with them and understand at least parts of how their minds work.

I agree, I discovered the MBTI (it's spelt "Myers-Briggs" BTW) back in 1998 and it's by far the most useful and interesting psychological instrument I've ever seen.

INFJ male here, by the way. I always feel like a fish out of water! :)

Re:Many types of skill

[tehcyder]

I sense hostility, would you like to talk about your feelings?

While College has its problems..

[bigattichouse]

COllege is COMPLETELY different from high school. I knew plenty of "drop out" types that couldn't get by in high school that excelled in college, and visa versa.. It is a completely different approach to learning. 'Course it depends on the school, but I'd say wait until you're *at least* a sophomore before you think about not going to college. - get a good taste before you decide you want out.

Outward Bound

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, Outward Bound is definitely NOT unpleasant. It might be hard for some people but it is incredibly fun.

Re:Outward Bound

[Anonymous Coward]

Looking at the site, I didn't realize they offered shorter trips. I had a friend that went on the three month hike-and-canoe-across-the-country-with-a-100-pound -bag-strapped-to-your-back excursion. She came back looking like a professional wrestler and talking about all of the truly painful and gross things that happened to them along the way. She had a great time, but it was very unpleasant and hard for everybody. Those things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.... Something about a city in Finland...

Re:Outward Bound

[ziggy_zero]

That long Alaska trip looks AWESOME. Holy shit. I'm and artist and photographer, and the thought of doing all that stuff with a camera in tow makes me giddy.

Although most of my friends would scoff at the idea of a pasty-skinned me, computer engineer/artist, in the outdoors, I'm actually no stranger to them. My stepdad took my sister and me orienteering with maps and compasses many times when we were younger, and I've been to summer camps where we learned to start fires from found wood, went kayaking, hiking, etc. (for some reason I had suppressed those memories until now - I think I didn't enjoy it too much at the time because my parents made me do it - this time it would be my idea) Now I'm no boy scout, but the point is it wouldn't be such a shock to me. But it would be a challenge, and I love a good challenge.

The only obstacles I see are the tuition (although it costs about as much as a semester of my college, I might find it hard to justify to my parents since I planned on taking courses over the summer to graduate early...) and when to go. There's the possibility of getting an internship at Pixar next summer....*does the little hand-scales up and down thing*...so we'll see.

Re:Outward Bound

[cowscows]

I was a complete social recluse during highschool, for a number of reasons, and I spent all my time either being miserable at school, or locked in my room at home, on the computer. A week before I graduated, my mom gave me a pamphlet about a company sort of like outward bound, that did a bunch of backpacking trips. The pictures in it were beautiful, and I ended up choosing the 41 day trip in Alaska, not really having any idea what I was getting myself into. My previous outdoor experience was limited to a couple camping trips in cub scouts when I was like 10, and playing in the small wooded area behind my house during middle school.

Anyways, I ended up going on this trip, entirely underprepared for it. When I first got to the airport, and some of the instructors for the trip picked me up at the gate, we were talking, and my lack of knowledge of anything useful for the trip, as well as my general unsocial-ness led them to tell me that they weren't sure the trip was for me. And I certainly had no idea at the time that I'd spend the next 6 weeks without toilet paper.

Long story short, it ended up being, by far, the greatest experience ever, one of those life changing deals. Damn hard work, but the personal rewards were great, and the scenery up there is beyond belief. I did another 30 day trip up through some of the Yukon a few years later, and that was equally awesome.

Unfortunately, I haven't been on any good backpacking trips since then, mostly because college has required too much time and work. Especially needing those internships to graduate. (Although I did manage to get an internship in the jungles in Belize. That rocked.)

I guess the point is, if you can fit a trip like that into your schedule, budget, it's so worth it. Although working at Pixar would undoubtedly kick ass as well.

Sounds like an INTP to me.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Sounds like an INTP to me."

Too funny. I'm an INTP, and this guy sounds just like me.

To all of you who think this guy's a quack, just remember, we only comprise ~1% of the population, and, yes, we are weird.

How did I deal with it? Let's see. I started in CS at the age of 7. Even though I interned at a military lab working on the Cray II and on a laser project in high school, I couldn't get into a decent school because I had blown off high school and had a 2.something. (That's right: I don't even remember.)

Then I went to a local colege for a while studying EE. (CS was too boring. These guys didn't know anything about CS.) That was kinda boring too because my dad was an EE and had tought me most of the stuff I was learning in class. Because it was 'kinda boring', I didn't do my homework, and had a GPA on par with what I did in high school.

So I quit, went to work as Head of Software Engineering for a few years, grew up a little (I got me some discipline!), and after 5 years went back to school at the same place. I made straight A's for two semesters and transfered out to an Ivy League school. (The only 'good' school that would accept me.)

There I learned I didn't know anything about my subject of choice, Physics. I was a math n00b to them. (You getting the "can't make up my mind about what I want to do" picture yet? CS->EE->Photography->Physics). I got my degree after two more years, and applied to a dozen graduate schools. (Heck, I'd applied to two dozen undergraduate schools and only been accepted by one!) I got accepted to every one but M.I.T. to my surprise, and went off to a Ph.D. program.

There I learned I wasn't cut out to be a Ph.D. Not that I wasn't interested, mind you. Not that the work was so hard I couldn't do it. It just wore on me.

I couldn't keep up at the pace they wanted; rather I didn't WANT to keep up at the pace they wanted. I wanted to be creative -- to dance, draw, play my piano, invent, to study new subjects, to do all kinds of things. And they wanted to do Physics. And do Physics. And do Physics.

I started having nightmares about school. I had nightmares about my family. I had nightmares about everything.

I had serious stress problems, a mental breakdown. I knew I was smart, smarter than some of the people around me, but I just wasn't cut from the right cloth to make it there. That alone completely screwed with my head.

So I quit, went home, and had nightmares for another three years about school. (Noone should wake up in cold sweats from having nightmares about being too exhausted to finish a 25 page long math problem that you couldn't figure out three years ago.)

Now I'm doing what I have always loved doing. I'm inventing on my own, doing my own thing. And yes, I'll never win the Nobel. And yes, of my many projects, it's possible I'll never make a million.

But I might.

And I'm happy.

I only have my B.S... no Ph.D. for me. No M.S. for me. But then again, I tought myself almost everything else I learned in life, except for all the math I learned as an undergraduate. Nothing I saw while I was in the Ph.D. program made me think I couldn't learn it in my own time by myself. As my own boss, I don't give a damn if I don't have a Ph.D., anyway.

So my suggestion to you? DON'T get caught up in your own smarts. Yes, you're smart. But you're not the kind of smart the world likes to parade around and give awards to.

You'll do better at anything that involves knowing quite a bit about - but not everything about - lots of subjects. You'll probably never hold the same job for more than 5 years. It's likely you'll have a very hard time finding a compatible mate.

But if you can learn to just accept who you are, and if, by some miracle, you can get your family to accept who you are, then you'll do alright.

You'll probably never live up to everyones expectations of "what you COULD be."

If you're not too de

Re:Sounds like an INTP to me.

[Anonymous Coward]

"There I learned I wasn't cut out to be a Ph.D."

One thing I forgot to mention about that whole Ph.D. thing:

I've quit many things in my life. But I quit them all because I was *bored* with them.

What screwed me up so much was that I *couldn't* do the Ph.D. thing. At least not there. And I drove myself to do it -- for two years I drove myself to try to do it -- before finally breaking down. For the first time in my life, I had found something I wasn't capable of doing, and for someone that has always prided himself as being able to do anything (and I do mean anything!), it was a total mental shock.

I hope that clarifies a little bit what I meant about not getting your self-worth caught up in something.

talent doesnt equal success

[segfault_0]

ive seen it a million times over, talent doesnt necessarily dictate success. more so desire decides who wins and who loses. you can have all the intelligence and talent in the world but without the desire to really apply it, its worthless. do yourself a favor and find out what your really want and love and pursue that - therein lie your best chances. good luck.

Make your own career

[wk633]

Advice from a 15-years-in-the-workforce-looking-back:

I have a very broad 'technology' skills set, but not enough 'years of paid experience' in any one area to put me past 'entry level'. The problem is that very few companies are trying to fill a job with that kind of description. They have a laundry list of things they want, and years for each one.

It doesn't matter how bright you are, if you don't fit into their pigeonhole, they'll pass you by.

Solution? I think be prepared to make your own career. Working for someone else, you'll be doing what they want. Consider establishing yourself as an independant consultant early on. Look for some short term contracts rather than long term commitments. Be a hired gun.

Hint: making financially risky career choices is a lot easier before you have dependents. When you have other mouths to feed, it gets a lot harder to give up a steady paycheck for a dream.

What are you most fundamentally interested in?

[quax]

Try to identify this and map it to a field of study. In my case I wanted to find out what makes the world tick. So I studied physics. Never regretted it once.

Later I got somewhat sidetracked with artificial neural networks and launched into an IT career from there. While this has been financially rewarding I try now to work my way back into something closer to physics (quantumcomputing).

Re:uniquie

[billster0808]

Always remember you're unique, just like everone else

And after that...

[Anonymous Coward]

You should read, The Prince, Sun Tzu's The Art of War, and The Path to Power (LBJ's bio) Volume I. Read those if only to know how other people operate.

Too Bright

[KidSock]

Wear a lampshade.

Wow

[freejung]

He walked me across a folkie "scab line" once.

I am humbled and awed to be in your presence. He's one of my heroes too, but I've never met the guy. You've just made a friend, my friend.

Re:Wow

[kfg]

You've just made a friend, my friend.

Yeah, but I'm just going to post again and fuck it up. :)

KFG

Re:Wow

[freejung]

Yeah, but I'm just going to post again and fuck it up. :)

Nope. I don't make foes, and I don't remove friends. It's a principle thing.

Re:Wow

[feidaykin]

Then I welcome to the KFG stalking club! I've been reading his posts for over a year. I often have a tab open with his user page and find myself hitting reload quite often.

From what I've gathered, not only is KFG older than the "average slashdotter" he's also apparently not in the best of health due to some sort of fatal disease (two at last count?)... anyway, he likes to vanish from slashdot to do various things, such as study paleoanthropology or play Grand Prix Legends, and whenever he does I'm like "I hope he didn't kick the bucket this time!"

As you can see I have tendency to ramble (perhaps the direct opposite of KFG himself as his posts are normally short and to the point, example: in a reply to a question about why someone would do something he posted "Her." which I thought was rather amusing and yet insightful. And I just broke the record he set for longest parenthetical a while back).

Still with me? Scary! Alright then since, as I've stated, I tend to ramble, I'll shut up now and go back to stalking, something I'm much better at!

Post a story on /. that is so obscure

[crem_d_genes]

That only 7 people will respond to even after it made it to the *Main Page*. (like I once did:-)) Comfort yourself with the knowledge that you eight are the only ones that got it - well actually seven, since one was a joke on how few posts there were - start a secret society -

That way, you will know that you are really unusually bright, and virtually *all alone in this world*.

Seriously though, as some say in spanish "Dale Clavo" - accent on the *e* - (hit the nail). In other words - swing your hammer - take a shot - Do something, even if it turns out to be wrong - Piss or get off the pot. All those cliches.

You get better at what practice, for better or worse.

My best suggestion...

[UserChrisCanter4]

Is two-fold.

1) As some others have pointed out, you're basically a kid (although possibly legal) who graduated from high school. Bright though you may claim to be, you haven't really demonstrated anything in terms of practical intelligence. Get off the high horse and prepare for step two.

2) Sit down with your folks and talk this through with them. Spend a year living on your own in the real world. Trust me, it's only gonna take a year. Move out, get an apartment, pay some bills, get a credit card and learn to use it correctly (or better still, royally screw up and be thankful that you're only 18). You don't have to go all out and get a car loan (if you can avoid it, because it's going to keep you tied into this lifestyle, so try to get a car from the folks), but avoid living at home during this experiment at all costs.

Try to obtain and hold down two or three of the following jobs during the year: Retail Sales/clerk, some sort of receptionist/secretarial/clerical work, car sales or some similar "high stakes" sales job, or some sort of construction or low end mechanic work (a jiffy lube or similar). These are the sorts of jobs that a person without a degree can work in and, to a point, actually sustain themselves. While you can hear stories all day long about guys who have sys-admin jobs with no degree to back them up, the fact is that those days are pretty much gone, and there's enough guys out there with a CS degree who will work the same job that it'll keep you at "Mel's Used Cars" indefinitely. The up-side to these jobs is you'll learn some cool stuff that will have a practical application in your life later on. You can pick up some good info on how car dealerships work, and how to keep from getting scammed. You can play retail from the other side of the counter, and chances are that you'll be kinder to retail clerks for the rest of your life. Knowing basic construction skills will save you huge amounts further down the road when you own a house and don't have to pay somebody $1,000 to hang some sheetrock in that room over the garage you want to turn into a LAN lair.

In about 4 months it's going to dawn on you that things like the basic food in your house cost a fair chunk of cash, that car insurance is ludicrously expensive, that landlords aren't always the best people but work well with give-and-take situations, and that living with a roomie isn't always the hilarious life sit-coms make it out to be. You're going to start to realize the amount of money it would take to live and be self-sufficient, and the amount of money it will take to do anything other than "tread water". When you hit December or so, apply to the university or community college of your choice, because come May you're going to be sick of this "real world" crap, but more importantly, you're going to realize that although 50% of college is bullshit classes and random facts that you'll never need to know (I can tell you that the word 'file' came into the English language through middle French, and is named for the thin string originally used to organize 'files' in a cabinet), but part of the point is proving to an employer that you can slog through bullshit. People will change careers, on average, five times in their life. Get a degree in a subject you enjoy, even if it's History or English, and try to study some interesting subjects in your electives. Your first job may not be exciting or pay mad Benjamins, but by this point you'll have already figured out that work isn't fun time. It shouldn't be crap, mind you, and with luck you'll also have learned how to spot crap employers, but you'll be a little more understanding of how life actually works, and you'll realize that work isn't supposed to be demoralizing, but it isn't usually fun either.

When you get a real job, one where you have weekends and two weeks of vacation, you'll have time to pursue your weird side interests and linux and tinkering and everything else you adore. Not oodles, no, but it'll be there. Try to keep yourself reaso

Re:My best suggestion...

[Leebert]

Try to obtain and hold down two or three of the following jobs during the year: Retail Sales/clerk, some sort of receptionist/secretarial/clerical work, car sales or some similar "high stakes" sales job, or some sort of construction or low end mechanic work (a jiffy lube or similar).

I can't agree with this more. I spent a year in construction prior to my current job. I had quit my previous job to take a new job. Unfortunately, my new job was contingent on me passing a criminal background check, which I did not. (Long story ;) ) A friend offered me a job hauling around drywall supplies to job sites. I considered it so beneath me, but I always believed that an able-bodied man had no excuse not to work, so I took the job.

Several weeks into the job, I met a finisher named Carl. Carl had a masters in EE. Carl found his old job too stressful and bothersome. He quit his old job and started finishing drywall. He made more money doing that ($xxx,xxx), and he was in a quiet, stree-free job. Carl spent a good bit of time helping me with some Calc II problems I had.

After meeting Carl, I started to look more closely at the folks I was working with. I began to realize that just because a guy was wearing muddy boots, it was not necessarily an indication that he was an uninteligent person who didn't go to college. No, many of these folks had degrees, were intelligent, made more money than my then-dot-com friends, worked reasonable hours, and immensely enjoyed their jobs. I realized what an arrogant snob I had been. I realized what a high degree of prejudice I was exibiting. Wow, what an eye-opener.

I started to realize how much I was enjoying the job. I drove around a truck all day listening to the radio (NPR, C-SPAN, and whatnot), enjoying the outdoors, and getting excercise. Lifting drywall isn't easy, but it's good for you physically.

When I watched Office Space a few years later, I identified with Peter at the end very well. It was nice to get out of the office for a little while. I gained some skills that I can use in life. And I gained substantial life lessons from the experience. These days I work in high performance computing at NASA, which is a stark contrast. But even there I apply a lot of the life lessons I learned driving the drywall truck.

Re:My best suggestion...

[ediron2]

Absolutely. Damn skippy. Well Put. (etc..)

I liked surveying for the US Government. Great summer job I had between college terms for years. It was a giant game of treasure hunt: here's 70-year-old set of coordinates; go retrace them. We carried heavy packs, wandered the desert in brutal weather, dug holes to search for markers or plant new ones (you gotta dig a deep hole to plant a 4-foot post deep enough to prevent it from being caught by a farmer's plow!), and we had to think a lot.

One of the guys I worked with was part of a roving maintenance crew. Blew my mind the day he cracked an obscure pun about greek mythology. A few days later, he quoted Nietsche. Then he misquoted another great mind (gave the wrong source) and just as I opened my mouth to correct him, I realized he was baiting me.

To this day, I don't know what his educational background is. I've never asked. He's only a passing friend, but I admire him immensely. His job isn't difficult, but pays well enough to raise a family well. Point is, he doesn't live to work, as I said a few minutes ago in a long-winded posting. He does what he loves when he's off work, and his job is stress-free. Combined, they've made him the happiest man I know. He's got a balance to his life I can only hope to someday get.

Re:My best suggestion...

[sega]

That's a great post. Thanks for writing that. I think I realized something important from it.

Re:My best suggestion...

[MourningStar]

It seems that there are a lot of people here that would like you to sit down and shut up. Take what you read here lightly cause it would seem that most people here dont want to help you find yourself but rather squeeze you into some "social reality" that they see as being normal. I understand how you feel as i see myself in the same light as you.

Let me tell you a little about myself and maybe you can learn something that will apply to your life. After highschool I got into the computer field as a systems admin for Mutual of Omaha. This was in the mid to late 90s so i bounced around a bit. I had an interest in the computer field but not enough to really focus on something while working for people who know very little about my job or who are jerks. In 1999 i started a trucking company that later became a demolition and concrete company. So i tried a little of my own management and treated my employees the way that I would have liked to be treated. Also i hand picked all of them as to keep the bad apples out the best i could. I ran my company for almost 5 years and never posted a loss. After I burnt myself out of the trucking business I went back to work for "the man" however that only lasted about 6 months. I did sales for Qwest Communications, but sales was never my thing. And all of this brings me back to working for my dad in the family business until I decide something else looks better. At 24 I bought my first house, never needed a roommate(although had a couple and hated it) and at 25 I bought a BMW M3, both will be paid off in the next 12-18 months.

I can tell you that you dont need to fit into some mold or work some crappy job and prove to anyone that you can trudge through any BS. The only one you need to prove anything to is yourself and let me tell you, that can be the most daunting task youll ever do. Unfortunately for me I didnt learn any real social skills untill I was nearly 25. Having all that responsability at that age kinda set me back but that wasnt part of your question so ill leave it at that.

Dont lose hope and always maintain patience. You'll need both, possibly more that most people. Obviously there is much more to my story than I can fit here and im sure people will read this and think "Damn that guy is cocky and needs to sit down and shut up" but oh well. Im getting the things I want out of life at a pace suitable to me. I still havent found what I would like to do for the rest of my life and I dont really care. All I can really say is that being like us doesnt make many things easier and what it does there are things equally hard to balance it out. As for making real money being like us, own a business or buy some realestate, maybe do both.

Re:My best suggestion...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry if i presume to know you, it is only because I would have written the same thing just a few years ago. Everyone seems to be either telling you to get over yourself, or screw the world you are great. I would like to propose some moderation.

First: You have managed to truly piss off a whole lot of slashdotters. Please, for your own sake stop and read Dale Carnegie's "Hoe to Win Friends & Influence People". Lets face it no one really cares about anyone more than themselves. Learn to motivate people, there is no greater skill, it is rewarding both finantialy and, more importantly, emotionaly.

Second: Since you are very bright, you find many thing boaring. You will look at the book I just mentioned an never get through the first chapter. So get the audiobook, and along with it Steven Covey's "7 Habits of Highly Effective People". You need discipline. Without a near military level of discipline you will find yourself 35, still in an entry level position, with hundreds of missed possiblities surrounding you.

If you do this you have a good chance of finding success. But even then you will find that those who surround you have knowledge you deperately need. You have a great creative gift, surround yourself with experts who can act as a sanity check. Nine out of ten ideas you have will be so radical that they never could work. Get used to it. Because that one idea that does work will be so brilliant that it will be worth the 9 dangerous failures.

Good Luck, I would love to work with you some day,

Re:My best suggestion...

[BrianRoach]

I don't know how many people are reading this thread anymore, but it hit very close to home with me.

I didn't go to college. Why? Because (high) school bored the hell out of me, and I was young enough to decide that I could make it without it.

And I did ... I'm smart, but more importantly I enjoy learning. I read, I studied ... because I enjoyed learning. The reason high school bored me was because I wasn't learning anything I hadn't already learned on my own.

SO ... I did the programming thing for 10 years. I starting writing code at 10 years old on a VIC20, so naturally I thought that's what I would be all my life.

Then I figured out it sucked. Not the programming part exactly, but doing it all day every day, for someone else. And it just wasn't all that rewarding.

Now ... I'm a motorcycle mechanic. I work at a performance shop that specializes in road racing. I build motors, fix crashed bikes, a number of other things. I also race. I love my life. Better yet, I enjoy my life, and live it.

- Brian Roach

Re:My best suggestion...

[Anonymous Coward]

This seems to be some of the best advice I have heard in a long time. Pursuant to the point about the average person changing careers five times in his/her life I can say this; if you wind up in a big company then pay attention to how people move upwards. I work for the largest employer in my area. Almost no one gets anywhere by going up the corporate ladder. You have to switch departments to move up. I'm not reccomending that tactic, rather I urge you to forget all the 'common sense' career advice you will get and put your brain to work. Look at who really gets promoted and why, if you change companies then start your research again. This will save you a lot of frustraion in the long run.

And...

[Anonymous Coward]

``we quite often see those who think of it as an intellectual penis-extending exercise fall by the wayside''

and those were just the women!

Like Tyler Durden Says...

[bcs_metacon.ca]

"You are not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fuckin' khakis. You are the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world." ...as you grow older, you'll realize you're not special, you're just smart, like a lot of other people. And you'll meet people a heck of a lot smarter than you. Smarts is not as important as wisdom, and neither is as important as a sense of perspective.

Me

[fullofangst]

As a Brit, I had a very normal childhood. I went to generic schools until college time - 18 years of age - at which point I dropped out from an I.T. course due to sheer boredom.

I've done menial jobs which include (very) basic web design, first and second line support roles.

I type faster than anyone else I know, averaging around 110 words/minute and peaking at around 126 when absolutely whoring someone at Typing of the Dead.

I like computers, I like what can be done with them, but I have never gotten into programming. I am not hugely skilled in social behaviour, but have firmly decided to leave low paid, low skilled jobs behind and concentrate on the contract market in the UK, as right now it has several good opportunities.

I do not believe I will become famous in the world of I.T. as I am not a PR master, nor a risk taker. I will probably remain Behind The Scenes but earning enough to have a good life. At least, this is what I hope.

I've found myself to be almost unique in terms of ability with I.T. systems. I only know a handful of people who can navigate around an operating system as quickly and efficiently as myself.

Personally I did not like my education. It was very boring, time consuming and almost painful. Yet I do like learning. Right now, I wish I were at a highly rated college learning something fascinating like Quantum Physics, something in which I could really use my brain to try and help out in some way.

I don't appear to have much of an imagination, but every now and then I have a lovely waking dream where everything seems fantastic, but then I am presented with the grim reality of things, where the person with the loudest mouth wins out.

Also, I would have posted this under my slashdot account, but forgot my password. One of those absent-minded-professor moments, perhaps!

Re:Me

[fullofangst]

And as luck would have it, I posted the above 'anonymous' comment under my own userID.

Good example of irony, kids! The above-average intelligence guy not actually being able to post properly on a simple form-based website. D'oh.

wow...

[spawnofbill]

There are alot of bitter people in this world, as you can probably tell from the majority of the comments here (and NO ONE quote me on that one, it's a generalization and it's meant to be taken with a grain of salt). If you can't really make up your mind on what you want to do, you might be happiest by getting a business degree and keeping all these other things as a hobby. I'm gonna sound really cheesy when I say this, but you do sound alot like me (hell, i'm even the same age group as you). I have found however in my few years (compared to most /.ers) that people individually are really nice, concerning, individuals. However, when lumped into large masses, everyone tends to get washed up in the momentum of the moment and go along in groups, even the goths have there own clic.

if you want to chat, my email is spawnofbill@comcast.net

I Know What I Am, Do You Know What You Are?

[carterhawk001]

Ive got an IQ of 135, do i brag about it, no, why, cuz i dont think its anything special. I Graduated From high school this year with less than a 2.0, do i make excuses for it? no, i know why i ended up with my grades, and acknowledge my laziness when it comes to school. Ive know one thing realy well, computers. That is a relative fact. Relative to joe schmoe, im a friggin genius, relative to the average slashdotter, I know next to nothing. Im going to college to, i know what im capable of, and i know what i want to do, and thats all that anyone needs to worry about going to college. Coming here and talking like your some kind of unsung genius is not a good thing, makes you look pretentious, and no one likes pretentious people. BTW, go with a career that cant be outsourced, thats what im doing. There isnt jack squat some guy in india can do for the average worker-bee when their hard drive goes ZZZZTPOPKERPOOP!

Think VERY long-term

[cbdavis]

Im 57 and made a zillion errors. Here is what Ive learned:

1. If you are in a high-tech field, get a hobby that involves the arts. Photography, painting, sculpting. You dont have to be great. 30 years from now, when you burnout, your artistic talents will be the number 1 interest in your life. You'll thank me.

2. Dont get married till after 30. The twenties are for partying.

3. Plan on retiring around 55. Start looking at that age to leave the job market. Get a house paid off by then. Talk to smart financial people about this. You'll thank me.

4. Manage your own career. Forget about job security, putting in your 30 years at a company. Make sure your current employer pays for career education. Masters degree may help. PhD may or may not help ( i know some PhDs outta work).

5. Health. Do everything in moderation. Avoid drugs and booze. Especially if your relatives have problems in these areas. Exercise 4 days a week. Eat what you like. Dont diet or go off on some weird food binge. Eating is one of lifes great enjoyments. enjoy.

6. Work on your enlightenment. Kinda goes with (1). Find a balance with the world. Especially people who piss you off or push your buttons. Learn to focus your anger to solve problems. You want to be a free-flowing human when you retire. As a recently passed-away coworker told me, "life is too important to be taken seriously".

What you should be striving to do is have all your energies come together when you retire. All the facets of your life should arrive in unison as you give up work. Then, you will really discover who you are. Its not work, your friends, or wives, or kids. Its not the money or cars, or PCs. Its arriving at a spot where your life can begin. 30 years of work is really a waste of a humans energy. We gotta do it but still. Remember, all paths to enlightenment lead to you. I know we are supposed to live in the now, but your need to plan. I didnt, I regret it. I f**cked up.

Of course all of this is for naught if you die an early death. A lot of that you cant control.

Good luck....

College is profoundly useless...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to do something extraordinary in this world. College does what it's meant to do very well, train workers for regular jobs to do regular tasks. You're talking about crystalized bureaucracy whose sole purpose is not to educate for education's sake (that died with the Industrial Revolution) but to give the Government and Corporations a resonably predictable level of workers year in and year out and of course when that fails, just import them. You do not get extraordinary from bureaucracy.

But, in any case it all depends on what you what you want to do with your life, if you want to do something that no one has ever done before then you can not take the path everyone else has taken before you (i.e., College to learn obsolete techniques from those who resent their own choices in life yet refuse to do anything about it) you have to make your own. If that means foregoing college to chose a different path then that is what must be done. The choice is yours.

Been there, done that, here's my exp

[MotorMachineMercenar]

Your description of yourself is right on spot: that's what I am, too. And I'm INTP, as well. I'm currently 29 and will go to grad school in the fall. And I sounded a lot like you when I was your age. And what I've heard from friends I've gotten a lot better over time. This is mostly due to input from friends, often highly critical in no uncertain terms ("you soulless fuck") and objective self-evaluation of my strengths and weaknesses.

I know it's hard to change when you think you are The greatest in the world. But when you see and realize YOUR life will be much better when you don't act like an asshole all the time and pick your fights (verbal and physical) you'll become an even better person. I still don't possess "empathy," but I can consciously avoid hurting other people's feelings. This is especially important with point #2 below.

Here's my experiences:

1. Don't let people know how bright you are. No, really. They don't want to hear it for various reasons. It will only alienate/intimidate/annoy them and might actually cost you some very good potential friends.

2. Cherish friendships, girlfriends and other relationships. In the end the world is a very lonely place if you're out there alone with your brightness. Seriously, if you already have good friends, keep in touch with them and TAKE TIME TO ACTUALLY BE A GOOD FRIEND. If not, join a martial arts club, debate team, whatever rocks your boat. There are very good people out there. They are not necessarily as bright as you are but that doesn't mean they will not be valuable, good friends for you.

3. Find something you really, reallllly like and try to turn that into a career. If you pick a major that slightly interests you you will get bored to death real fast. Imagine how it'll be when you graduate and you actually have to earn a living doing that same shit. It doesn't work.

4. Since you've probably picked up your school it might be late, but get to a school that makes you study. That means either a very expensive, top-tier highly competitive private school or a military college. Otherwise you'll end up partying and blowing your parents money off for four years with nothing to show for it. I went to a military college myself and graduated on Dean's List. Now I'm going to a "regular" grad school (although it's the best one in Europe in my discipline) so I'm pretty worried whether I can focus myself with all the girls and booze out there.

5. I don't know if you are on a high horse, but if you are, get off it. No one likes an arrogant prick. People detest arrogant and intelligent pricks even more. Your life will be much more fun, easier and interesting if you treat other people with respect regardless of their mental or physical capabilities. Also refers back to point 2.

I hope that answers some of your questions. Life can be really hard for people like us because there just isn't enough interesting stuff to do and the world is full of stupid people. But I feel the above five points should get you ahead to a good start in an interesting adult life.

In the end, listen to your own feelings. Feelings means how you feel, it's a tough concept (at leat for me), but you'll get better over time. Also, make concious effort to gauge how other people feel about others and especially you. If you hurt your friend's/loved one's/etc. feelings, acknowledge that out loud to them at the spot and apologize or make it up. Most people "out there" care a lot about that kind of crap. About emotions and stuff like that. But when you realize that you have the power to make other people feel as good as you feel about yourself, it will come back to you in a good way, with interest.

Also, observe your own behavior and how you react to different situations or people objectively. This way you can adjust your behavior to within norms if that is necessary. This is to make your life easier and to not make you stand out like a sore thumb from the grey masses. Pick the times when you stand out. And strive to stand out in posit

welcome to the steriotype

[Goraek]

I was much the same, used to drive my highschool teachers crazy "can see your potential... why don't you apply yourself" that particular teacher used some *different* teaching methods (graded me harder, more work...) to the point of me having a nervous breakdown and dropping out.
Went to TAFE (community college?) and did a DipTech (electronic engineering), worked as a "systems engineer" on loan to a research group in the US for six months... $mega$ but HATED the work. Got back to Australia and used my diploma to get into Uni.
2 years of a Physics/Chem double degree (with enough maths for a double major in one of them) realised "sure, I can see myself getting into the research I *want*... but I've only done this stuff because I was good at it... do I really like it?"
So, started trying "different" stuff.. did a semester of Japanese with my usual work-load (NOT a good idea.. hardest unit I've ever done..) tried some other humanities stuff...
Got offered a place in the Medicine degree at another uni & thought I'd try it out "want to get into bio-medical research with my physics anyway... this'll be good insight"

LOVE IT!!! I can't see where this'll take me (used to be a v. important part of my studies), I'll be 30 before I graduate university and can't say I like the idea working grave-yard in a hospital for at least 2-3 years (final, intern and resident)... but I love the people I'm working with, the course material and the atmosphere... I know that it'll lead me *somewhere* that has a future (even if it is a "drone") but for now I'm enjoying the journey...

If you don't know what to do, take a year off and work/travel/both... learn a language and discover the world... esperanto is meant to be good for helping with travel (free accommodation).

do something that you can say is "living" THEN go to college... find your focus, your inspiration (plus, being a little older CERTAINLY helps with the ladies).

4 things I've learnt:
a). The Engineer in me thinks "I understand the world and am God", in reality is a bit of a tool and knows nothing...
b). The Physicist in me thinks "I know nothing.. I am a speck in the universe", in reality has a better grip than the engineer and is a nice, helpful person... humble
c). Be the first to acknowledge the genus in others, don't tell others how smart you are.. force them to find out slowly, through helping them with school work NOT SHOWING OFF (plus, girls love a challenge/mystery... tie "making them work a little to get to know you" in with being a little older... :D )
d). DO NOT BE A DOOR MAT!!!

just my $0.038 AU (inflation and exchange rate)

bright? yeah right

[daveb]

There's three things that are simply not related, that people tend to treat as if they were identical.

• Intelligence
• Knowledge
• Wisdom

All too often we treat someone with lots of knowledge as if they were intelligent - and don't get me started on thinking about wise. Which is not the same as intelligence. I know a few people that I'm sure most would regard as "intelligent" but few would describe as wise (I can't define either but can get an agreement about whether it's an attribute of someone)

I think the only thing that counts is whether you can be successful in something you enjoy. Regardless of your "smarts" if you aren't having fun in what occupies your day then find something else to occupy your day. And if you're no good in that then chances are it isn't entertaining you.

and as for /.ers that consider themselves unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' and how you have dealt with it. all I can say, and has already been said in other threads, is

Get over yourself

If your self esteem is based on some idea that you are better in some hidden way than most people then you have some serious problems and will probably never be really happy, blieveing that you are just not appreciated. You probably will be more appreciated if you start valuing and appreciating those around you. Quid pro quo you get what you give

Do I sound like you??

[Ffakr]

Do I sound like you?
Highschool: top 2% nationally in standardized tests, 3rd highest ACT in my class (i'd have done better if I paid attention in class). Nearly dead center in my class ranking. In fact, I nearly didn't graduate on time because I didn't pass Speech first time through (I was pretty introverted until I really knew people).
I'm a jack of all trades but master of none. I'm technically proficient in anything that interestes me. I'm a good guitarist who never learned how to play. I enjoy a wide variety of music.. and not just because it's intellectually cool to listen to a little bit of classical.

I'm pretty smart. In fact, I'm smarter than most people I meet, but then there are a lot of stupid people out there.
I knew smart people in highschool but I never met someone obviously brilliant until I went away to college.
I'd love to see you post back after you spend a year or two in college. I'm sure it will be a pretty humbling experience if you go to a good.. or at least large University.

Right now, you're just a smug highschooler who hasn't been exposed to enough people to realize how much you don't know. In fact, when I started working in computer support it took me quite a while to really comprehend how little I knew. It was like a magic Jedi moment for me. I became twice as knowledgeable when I understood how little I knew. I also became 10 times as useful when I could appreciate when I really didn't know something (people starting in Tech support give out so much bad info the *think* they know).

fast forward a long time.. I know I'm smart.. but I sure 'aint no special snowflake. I could be really good (better than most) at just about anything I do if I'm interested in the task but I'll never be truely exceptional. Einstein's legacy has nothing to fear from me.

as always, don't believe me.. I'm just a stupid ffakr

well...

[dayhox]

After having had a word with my old boss, a retird Lt. Col U.S.A.F, regarding my wanting to take a break from college, he said earnestly "You know, the biggest mistake intelligent people make is their belief that the rules don't apply to them." I didn't listen to him then, and after 6 years, am still on the break.

One of the good answers

[Anonymous Coward]

All that matters is that you find what it is you are here to do. The best way to identify this I have heard is as follows:

1. Think of something that when you do it, you lose track of time and when it's done you feel better about having done it. Often this is not something you realize you enjoy but if you're careful to look, you'll notice that once you get started it just seems to take up your time with ease.

Life is essentially like this, only longer and more drawn out. You will spend a lot of time and energy getting started but then you will lose yourself in your task. Choose that task well and you will be happy.

----

As for being extroardinarily bright, maybe, maybe not. I knew a lot of people who thought they were the shit but I knew that I could run circles around them. The way you know you're really smart is when you're an adult, and you start expressing yourself openly and freely amongst people you respect for their competence and intelligence and you see this look in their eyes, this look of a frozen moment.

Coming across someone who is "extremely" bright is shocking. People will react to you in this way. It's very common for the extremely bright to hide this from people, mostly without realizing it. This can really warp your perception of self. Keep it in check.

One of the best ways to keep your head is to know what you're NOT good at. EVERYBODY is really bad at something. Celebrate that thing, it will provide you comfort. Hang out with people who are good at those things. Then they will feel more your equal, having something to offer you.

It's going to be a lonely road but if you're honest with yourself, above all, everything will work out. What really counts in this society is what you do, not what you have, make or know. Above all that remember that humanity is incomplete without you. Please don't withdraw and deprive the world of your contributions.

Excuse the ramblings, anybody who is actually smart will be able to figure it out. Rules are for idiots.

I always think of this quote

[mondoterrifico]

when I hear people say they are "special".

"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."-- Carl Sagan

Give him a break, a misunderstanding?

[xRelisH]

Perhaps he's just looking for something to make use of his talents? Nobody wants to just waste away all of their time sitting and watching TV. It seems like he hasn't accomplished anything spectacular, some may be critical about that. But I say the more the reason to find something.

There are probably a lot of very bright ( and also a lot of not-so-bright ones ^_^ ) slashdotters here, but Im sure most have some way of making use of their talents. Some of us fiddle around with our computers, others play an instrument, or do some sort of carpentry.

I personally like to fiddle around with the computer ( often breaking some driver, and spending a week trying to fix it :) ) and have gotten back into my old hobby of drawing ( by hand ).

I'm sure there are plenty of hobbies to suggest, and there are a lot of interesting courses that one could take in University as electives.

Comments from a retired-at-39 INTP

[Anonymous Coward]

I know you! You sound just like me, 22 years ago! I bet your apartment is perpetually cluttered too. Am I right? You have a very bright future! Here's what you may have to look forward to:

Overall you will be good at starting things and giving advice, but terrible at finishing projects and seeing them through. Most other people will not be very good at taking your advice, or even understanding where your advice is coming from. This more than anything will frustrate you, because you always put real effort into trying to help people. You'll have to resist saying "I told you so!" more times than you can possibly count.

You will not graduate from a major university. It's simply a fact. If you enroll in one, you'll feel like a number. You will also consider yourself (correctly) to be more intelligent, more creative, and/or better-informed than virtually ALL of the college staff and you'll quickly tire of shelling out large amounts of money for classes in which you actually learn very little. You'll leave for practical reasons. (I used to say, "I enrolled in the University to get smart, so when I got smart, I left.")

The only classes which might truly interest you will be graduate-level, and you won't qualify for those, due to prerequisites. Your success in certain undergrad classes such as Calculus-II will depend on your ability to memorize, rather than comprehend, and you will not be able to let go of your ingrained desire to undertstand things first & foremost. Many, perhaps most classes are taught that way, and it will suck. You'll drop out of college in less than 2 years with a miserable GPA, totally disillusioned with the educational system, yet still motivated to achieve and make a real difference in the world.

Then you'll discover business. You'll be better at what you do than anyone else - except for the crucial detail of actually finishing the projects. Over time, that requires discipline that you'll find difficult or impossible to muster in the long run, as you'll unconsciously resist "reining in" your creative mind, because that's simply who you are. Your ideas are your greatest strength after all.

What you need to do is partner with somebody who shares your interests and views and your desire to achieve, but who mostly lacks your creative vision. You can provide the vision, while he/she will provide a lot of hard work and continuity which respectively, will move the project along and help you stay committed to the cause.

You'll work together as equals, but intellectually, your ideas and visions will tend to be dominant in nearly every project. You can be the same physical gender, or opposite genders, similar or different age groups. Those don't matter much; but what DOES matter is your mental genders. For example if you're a straight male (like myself) you may find that you work best with another man who has a slightly effeminate demeanor. No kidding!! This can be ideal. There are many practical advantages to working with your mental polar opposite because your minds will work together perfectly. There will be no egoism or struggle for control, as you will simply agree on the best ideas.

I inadvertently found such a person early on, whom I knew from High School, and ended up working with this fellow at 8 different companies over 20+ years, simply because we worked so incredibly well together. Seriously, I am quite good. But I am nine times the software developer when I work with this guy, and the same goes for him. When we work together there is no stopping us. There is absolutely no limit to what we can achieve together.

If you can work with someone like that, in a few years you'll soon have an amazing list of achievements behind you, and that old college degree will be the farthest thing from your mind. You'll develop a reputation in the business world, and effectively you'll have transcended the need for college paper. Business owners don't care about college degrees. The only thing that matters to most busines

Re:Comments from a retired-at-39 INTP

[wk633]

> You will not graduate from a major university.

Unless of course you stubornly keep at it, and manage to keep your grades barely above water, in which case it make take 8 or 9 or 10 years.

Leave college so you can focus on your education.

[burtonator]

Seriously... leave now. College will just suck your soul out of your body and leave you just a dry husk ;)

I did it... went one year. My career hasn't been slowed down at all in fact it's taking off.

My company has funding, I'm at peek form, really know my shit, have some amount of respect in the industry, and college has never been an issue.

Anyway... Rock on! :)

PS. College is really good for some people... If you have ADD it's a good sign to quit. The system isn't designed for you...

Don't restrict your options

[nullstringntx]

I wouldn't consider myself "unusually but non-traditionally 'bright'" but I do identify with your struggle to find a way to reconcile your different interests. I spent many years trying to figure out the "one thing" I was supposed to do with my life, switching from one interest to another. Then one day I started to wonder why everyone was so keen on there having to be ONE thing. Why not 2? Or 20? I don't know where you live, but American society is so focused on individuals being a success, and it goes without saying that you couldn't possibly be a success unless you devote you mind, life and soul to "doing one thing, and doing it well!" I decided that I would rather have a life that incorporated all my different interests. At the same time, I don't buy the myth that you just go for whatever you want and somehow, magically, a job will appear at the end of it -- you have to live within reality. My path was as follows: I got degrees in Comp Sci (BSCS) and Math (MS), then took a job working 40 hours a week (and no more than that). I used the money from my job to finance a degree (MA) in the Humanities, going part-time in the evenings. My colleagues at work didn't understand why I would want to do this. But for me, it was just something I had to do. It was also one of the best and most challenging experiences of my life. With this degree, I have the option to teach night classes as an adjuct (lousy pay, but I enjoy teaching). On the side, I write poetry, garden, sing in a band, cook etc. That's what living a full life means to me. YMMV. My point is, though, that you should see your multiple interests as a strength, not a weakness. Take your interests, then find a way to support yourself that allows you the time to pursue them. Good luck!

get a life

[f00zbll]

there isn't one definition of smart and smarts means jack shit. what matters is how hard you work and what you choose to do every single day. My advice, strive to be a good person and do what you love. Leave all the other bullshit labels behind. The only thing labels are good for is making asses.

Quicksand ahead

[smchris]

If you don't know what you want to do with your life, college can be fun -- for four years. Then where are you and where will you go?

Anything at a voc school interest you? Get something that lets you make enough money, you can always go to college if that is what you really want to do.

Philosophy!

[lux55]

There's so much to learn out there, much of which is unfortunately not accessible via the modern university (at least not the main paths through it), that would both provide a good mental challenge for you, as well as help channel your intellectual gifts into positive outlets.

The classics and the medievals especially, btw. While the moderns are important, I'd argue that that's so because we need to figure out where we went wrong in order to right ourselves. The classics, on the other hand, and the medieval philosophers especially, had such a huge emphasis on method, which is so critical to making any progress at all (methods beyond the impirical scientific method).

The empirical evidence to the importance of philosophy, in case you're skeptical of it, is that most of the great scientific and mathematical minds throughout history considered themselves philosophers, not scientists, and considered the two inseperable. The major artists too, you'll find, also considered themselves not artists but philosophers.

PS. Philosophy is Greek for "Lover of Learning" or "Lover of Wisdom". Can't top that if your hunger for learning really is insatiable. ;)

Re:Philosophy!

[Anonymous Coward]

PS. Philosophy is Greek for "Lover of Learning" or "Lover of Wisdom".

Actually, that would be "philosopher". Philosophy would be love of wisdom.

Re:Philosophy!

[lux55]

*slaps head*

Thanks for the correction.

Loneliness

[unum15]

First I would recommend you read this article by Paul Graham:http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html I used to feel like everybody else should value what I value and be like me. This lead to depression which led to other bad habbits. After a while I decided to change my life. I decided that I was sick of being alone(I had a girlfriend at the time but felt alone even with her). So I started joining clubs(including the local free software group), and gained enough confidence in what I was doing was right that I learned to accept other people who didn't see many thing like me. I'm still not good friends with a lot of people, but I am a lot happier. I guess the short version of the story is: decide what kind of person you want to be. Be that kind of person. Feel good about it, and accept others even though they may not know as much as you. It's funny how much of a difference it can make to have a girl in your life, but make sure you find one who makes you feel good about what you do. Not just one who's there.

Dude, go build something

[mveloso]

Build stuff for fun, then make a career out of it. Don't go into CS, go into something that allows you to analyze big systems, like political economy or some such.

There is very little in CS that you can't learn yourself, especially in the undergrad world.

As for me, I'm spending my time learning golf.

Re:Try philosophy

[Anonymous Coward]

Analytic philosophy as practiced at many major American and British universities is as challenging as any topic. It is highly technical and it allows you to think about almost anything in extremely general ways. I majored in philosophy at MIT of all places, and it radically changed my understanding of the world.

You probably won't get far if you don't have something like a scientist's passion for the truth. You have to be genuinely concerned with understanding things like the nature of the mind or morality, or how to reason correctly. As for concentrating indefinitely on something interesting, well, being a hardcore nerd about metaphysics is like nothing you've imagined...

Not necessarily the best for job prospects, unfortunately.

MBTI is horseshit.

[AndyChrist]

Albert Einstein was an INTP, and he wasn't understood until much later in his life (and even more so after his death.).

How the hell do you assume that? He was dead way before this crap was ever invented.

MBTI has a fundamental flaw: it requires yes-no answers for questions which do not have yes-no answers.

You're getting meaningless data, so your results will be equally meaningless.

MBTI is astrology for educated people, but no more valid. You might as well say "Albert Einstein had the same blood type as me, and we're SOOOO alike!"

Re:MBTI is horseshit.

[Anonymous Coward]

No he wasn't. The MBTI is just an expansion of Jungian type theory. It's still bullshit without any scientific basis, but it was around when ol' Albert was still kicking.

No, the truly fucked up claims is when they type people that have been dead for three centuries. Or people that aren't even real.

Re:MBTI is horseshit.

[AndyChrist]

Was THAT typing system around when Einstein was alive?

I'm pretty sure the answer is no.

But if I'm wrong, correct me. (With some sort of reference.)

Re:MBTI is horseshit.

[Chacham]

MBTI has a fundamental flaw: it requires yes-no answers for questions which do not have yes-no answers.

That is ridiculous. Either the person is more of one than the other, or not. If not, then X. If yes, then which one.

Also, the questions are merely a way to find the person's preference. However, the prefered method is for the person to understand the ideas themselves, and make an informed decision.

Re:MBTI is horseshit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahaha. You sound like a jaded ISTJ who takes the test literally and tries to rationalize all of the answers to an exact answer. :P

Wish I had words of wisdom...

[Indigenous Cowbird]

... but if I had any wisdom to spare, I wouldn't be up at 12:30 AM writing this.

So many of the responders didn't even read your post. Oh, they may have seen the letters, and groued them into words, but what they read was in their own heads, not yours.

You sound pretty level-headed; just judging from your post, you have nothing to "get over". You weren't comparing yourself to anyone else; you weren't asking for people to bow down to you. You wrote of "intensity". I'd guess that if you had to use one word to describe yourself, you might even choose that word over "intellegence". What matters to you isn't being the best or the brightest; else you would have mentioned that somewhere in your post! Your need is to be able to keep exploring and learning... preferably with other like-minded souls.

If I have any wisdom to offer, it's this: There are more people like you than you may realize... but finding them isn't always easy. Choose your college well. Ivy-league schools aren't necessarily the best choices for you, though I'm not putting them down by saying so. Look for a place where people are there to learn, not to achieve.

That isn't much, but it'll have to do.

McDonalds

[nightgrave]

I've taken my education to a higher level. I work at McDonalds.

whatever

[Kallahan]

It appears 90% of the slashdot readers are insightfull enough to point out you arrogant. Guess what, those same people view Bill Gates and Steve Jobs as arrogant. The problem with colledge is this, all it amounts to is a piece of paper and a GPA, does anyone give a damn if you learned anything? No. Why is this? Simple you will learn how to do your job on the job, most people in the technical field really learn what they need to do in the field? Can you program, sure I've bet you've tossed together dozens of programs, now write a 3d engine. The point being, just because you know how to program, doesn't mean you know how to program very specific products. So in closing, go to school, get a worthless paper (valued at 20-200 thousand dollars) but remember, that this is more of a test than a learning experience, sure you'll learn things, lots of stuff, then promptly forget it. Just like high school. Only when you get a real job where you do things over and over again will you learn what needs to be done.

You're gay.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, seriously. You love photography and cooking.

Take my advice, and find the nearest hunk of ass and fondle it.

Almost a dating ad?

[Slavinski]

SIM seeks SIF for ICC but DBAB.

...loosely translated...

Single intelligent male seeks single intelligent
female for intelligent chit-chat but don't be a
bore.

Asperger's

[Anonymous Coward]

This guy's story sounds very much like mine, except I'm 56 years old. I've been through this. College did not go well. Life did not go well up till the last few years. I now understand I'm an Aspie (Asperger's syndrome). It's very real. Our brains are different, really. Trying to go through life pretending you are just like everyone else will not work. Look into it, please.

Social Skills makes him more money in long run

[Anonymous Coward]

As a person with little in the way of social skills, in my life, I have observed that those with more social skills make far more money in the long run, in general. Human society is a social hierarchy. Social status is what it is all about.

The internet boom and computer technology and science in general gave some extra wealth to people who would generally not have much at all. But that appears to have been somewhat of an anomaly. Now that these geeks have built a communication network capable of outsourcing, they have signed their own death warrant, financially speaking.

Re:Social Skills makes him more money in long run

[Mycroft_VIII]

I wish you wrong on that first paragraph. But unforntunately it's all to true. Merit alone won't get that far unless.
If you can't play the social game well enough you'll get screwed. I don't like because I didn't start learning the social game till late and therefore am a bit behind the curve, so take my advice, study people and how they work. Especially learn social interaction and get at least passable at it.

Mycroft

Challenge yourself

[wyldeone]

I believe that many posters so far have been overly harsh. I was in a similar situation, where I went to a middle school where I was bored sick, and I never had to work ever in class. A's just came naturally, and I was always the most intelligent in my classes. However, when I went to high school I wanted more of a challenge, so I went to a college preparatory school. There I was actually challenged, and I met a lot of people a lot smarter then me, which was a really good experience. I also had to really work hard, or else my grades would fall. The best advice I can give to you is to challenge yourself as much as possible, because only then will you truly learn to work hard and achieve great things in life.

Advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Generalists take too much of a beating in the work force. Perhaps a stern lesson is that the first part of being bright is personal management. Many so called geniuses lack enough skills to simply survive.
It may pay you to decide that you are the one in control of your interests and decide to focus quite deliberately on areas that you dislike so that you can train yourself to build strong skills that are useful in gaining power and employment. For example a genius in math or physics may suffer all of their lives because they are lousy at preparing formal, written reports. They have the defect because they disliked the trivia of learning to do a great manuscript. They actually needed to acquire an intense skill that seemingly would get them no attention or recognition. But in academia or industry that skill may be more vital than the advanced math or physics that they learned.

Sounds more like...

[dbullock]

...you're undisciplined and a little arrogant.

If you're going to be successful in life, discipline is one of the more important skills you can develop. You can't learn it, you have to nurture it.

In my experience, pretty average people with good discipline can work wonders. Bright people without discipline don't usually amount to much unless they get lucky as well.

oh god

[trance9]

worst /. topic ever

Re:oh god

[trance9]

Oh give me a break, whoever modded that down -1 what are you thinking? This IS the worst /. topic ever: It's embarassing.

This is supposed to be news for nerds, not a nerd circle jerk where everyone gets together and pats each other on the back for being so uniquely brilliant.

Oh oh oh please my turn my turn let me tell you what an underappreciated genius I am! This really is an embarassing topic, and the worst on /. and if I get modded down again for saying so then you guys really are all wearing pocket protectors.

Re:oh god

[manickernel]

Hmmm.Decisions that will effect one's future in life? Actually I have found the posts here really interesting as they reflect the split between the cynics who feel it is "all for nothing, we are just cogs in the machine" and those practical optimists who beleive "life counts". I am in the latter camp. But I really would have liked to read your original post.

Actual Experience and Tips

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is everybody being such an ass to this guy? He can get the "harsh and real dose of reality" line from any of numerous adults in his life already, I am sure.

Don't tell him he's not special or to get over himself.. you don't know him. I am sure he thinks these things because they have been intimated by people who DO know him, and so I think the guy probably is indeed "unusually bright"... but anyhow, on to the advice.

I too, was "unusually bright" throughout highschool. I never really tried in school though, because I didn't have to in order to get okay grades. Probably the same thing you have experienced. I was recruited for the Academic Decathalon team because they needed another student with a GPA below 3.0 and they all knew that they'd clean up w/ me on the team.. I was their "ringer" so to speak, and filled the role nicely. I was the only student at my school that year to be named as a National Merit Scholar quarterfinalist who didn't also become a finalist -- my grades held me back.

I went to college and bombed. Flunked out twice. Couldn't bring myself to go to class. Forgot about finals. Just wasn't interested. I had never developed the work ethic and study skills needed for success in college or life in general while I was in highschool.

I got a job tutoring kids to take the SAT for a while.. great pay but spotty hours. Then I kicked around from crappy tech support job to crappy tech support job til I finally got on with a national ISP and got promoted a few times, and all the way along developed a work ethic and ability to focus on projects and complete them that I had always lacked.

And so I started going to community college at night, taking a class here and there. And then 3 months after the last promotion I quit my job and applied to return to college.

I'm doing great in school now.. nothing but A's and the occasional A+. And I want to go to law school. If you had asked me out of highschool if I would consider becoming a lawyer the answer was no way. But I find law amazingly intellectual and fascinating and so I'm going to take this Engineering degree and go to law school with it.

I'll be 30 when I am finished. 30 when I can think of starting a family. (wife is patient, thank goodness).

Things I wish I had done differently:
Known when to move on. I should have been able to tell in less than a year that college wasn't right for me at that point in my life the first time around. But I kept fighting it and pushing it and blew another year of my life deluding myself into thinking college was where I was supposed to be.

Paid more attention in high school calculus. Higher mathematics will expand your mind more greatly and in more different ways than anything else out there. I don't care what you're studying, find room for a full complement of calculus and a number theory/discrete mathematics/whatever-else-you-can-find course or two.

Apologies for the length.

Career Center

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Figure out where the career center on campus is.
2) GO TO IT.
3) Repeat #2 until you graduate.

Even with your holier-than-thou attitude, the above steps should still help. ;P

Advice? Sure.

[Moofie]

1) Learn how to work with people more gifted than yourself.
2) Learn how to work with people less gifted than yourself.
3) Learn that however gifted you are, you're very rarely the smartest person in the room. You're almost never the most interesting.
4) Learn to communicate. If it's in your head, and you can't get it out, it's useless.
5) Learn humility. There's always somebody better at whatever it is you do. If you're the best in the world at any given activity, rely on the fact that you're the worst in the world at others.
6) Laugh. Frequently. At yourself.

So many bitter replies

[bluesnowmonkey]

Anonymous poster, I hope you find this reply amongst all the cruft. I suspect that there are a lot of people here who are not proud of what they've accomplished with their gifts.

Your description matches me almost perfectly (don't care for photography much), except for the timeframe. After 9 years of repeatedly trying and dropping out of college, I almost have my baccalaureate. So allow me to try and condense all the experience I've come by the hard way in that period of time.

Your skills and talents ALONE will only get you so far. Success in college, as well as the rest of adult life, requires an enormous amount of self-discipline. You probably have not had to develop much of that. When you first encounter a class you can't slack your way through, you will probably fail it. It's ok; don't give up. Analyze what you did wrong (don't ignore the simple things), adjust your plan of attack, and go into the next semester with everything you've got.

Study. Almost everything you learn in school will come in handy later on, despite popular myth to the contrary. I mean everything, from history to foreign languages to math to public speaking. Trust me on this one and just learn it all to the best of your ability.

Good friends make all the difference. Surround yourself with positive, determined students, and it will help you be one too. Look for people who will encourage and support you, not people who will tempt you into beer, pot, and videogames (well, only in moderation). If you see the people around you going downhill academically, try to help them, but don't let them drag you down too. Your family probably can give you support, too; don't be afraid to ask (or to even admit to yourself that you need it, for that matter).

You probably think you have enough humility, but you do not. Many of the most important skills in life are ones that you thought you could skip out on (without admitting it to yourself). Get ready to go back and learn them. Social skills, disciplined study habits, goal-setting, car maintenance, housework. You will be shocked at the people around you who move away from their parents and don't know how to clean up after themselves, or turn into hermits because they don't have their respective moms telling them to go outside and make friends. These things are life's small potatoes. You were not meant to fail in life because you can't remember to do your homework, but you will never get a chance to try and defeat life's big problems until you take the time to master these small ones.

You might be thinking that this all sounds like pretty general advice, not really tailored your situation, and you would be fairly right. Despite being bright, you have to deal with life's small potatoes too. Just don't forget you're special. Ignore the naysayers here, because this is so important: above all else, NEVER FORGET THAT YOU ARE SPECIAL. You were meant to succeed in life, though exactly what that means to you, I could not guess. That's up to you.

I was alot like you...

[Anonymous Coward]

In short... a different school for every year I was in school. Bored and unable to maintain an interest in anything long enough to try hard. Never felt like an honor student or a brainy person, but knew I was not stupid either. Had a great group of friends who were a bad influence that led to me making some bad choices and some legal problems. Too lazy to consider college and when I was 17 I left home to the Army as an emancipated minor who had been given an ultimatum by his father to go live in a county home or join the military. At the recruiter's office is where for the first time in my life I had to make a choice for me since there was no turning back and in my mind, no one to turn to. The recruiter told my father "I can have him driving a truck in Germany in 4 months" and I knew this was not an option for me. Not that I was above it, or that there is no honor in that or any other profession, it just scared me to think (which is exactly what my father wanted) about that as my future.

Some time before all of this my best friend's father who had been an Air Traffic Controller before the strike in 81 invited his son and I to visit him in Miami at the Air Route Traffic Control Center. It was at that point, looking at a huge room full of radar scopes and people working airplanes on radios and coordinating via land lines that I realized I really liked aviation. The technology on that scale and at that time was incredible. Fast Forward back to the recruiter, I told him and my father I would go live with the county, get my high school degree and that I wanted to be a controller. Having the scores I needed on the military entrance test and having passed the required physical I was enlisted in the delayed entry program for 6 months to finish high school and in January of what would have been my senior year, at 17 I was at boot camp.

At the Army ATC school I graduated the top of my class. After that I was stationed at Ft. Hood TX for the remainder of my 4 years. Looking back to that time and up to now, I realize I am driven to overachieve, I assume to make up for the years I did not apply myself. I am not sure if I am trying to prove myself to me or if I am just so passionate about the work I do now, but I think it is a bit of both. In the Army I learned to do many things through my own efforts and the help of others willing to teach those with a desire to learn as opposed to the majority who expect things to be handed to them on a silver platter. I performed technical ATC duties of those several ranks above me with pride driven by a constant thirst for knowledge and desire to be prepared to make my next step.

After the Army, I was hired after a year break in service by the FAA as an ATC. This was a different world. This was a very competitive word and at that point and to this day I have always felt amongst my peers. I learned very quickly that book smarts and common sense are two totally different things when it comes to ones ability to succeed. I have seen numerous people who were very intelligent and book smart fail to complete training in the busier facilities because they did not have the ability to think on their feet and apply what they learned in real time dynamic situations. My point here is that there are many different measurements of intelligence and abilities and there are different career fields that can take advantage of all of them.

Currently I work on requirements and acquisitions of programs that will be deployed to all the EnRoute ATC facilities via either future software releases or new systems that replace old ones. The ATC operational environment is very complex and technical both procedurally and from an automation perspective. Having the primary job of a controller and the role of an interface to engineers, software developers, and program managers that represents their customer is a very unique position. And it is one I have come to love in that my passion for the ATC system, my technical knowledge, and my continuing desire to learn have merged and it has been and conti

More like an ENFP...

[blackbearnh]

First off, sounds more like an ENFP to me. Especially the part about getting bored with things. I'm an ENFP, and I've had to learn through my life to get better at completing projects (when I finished writing a 570 book, I knew I was pretty much cured...)

As far as college and such, I found that going to a non-traditional college (Hampshire) where I could design my own degree and not take a lot of "required" courses was a big benefit. I took 5 courses in 4 years (including a year off when I worked at the MIT AI lab), and never looked back.

Once out, I looked for small companies where I could make my mark, and learn a lot and do a lot of different jobs. Being bright is good, but keeping your skill set sharp and pertinent is critical. If you are an ENFP, you'll find you don't like studying things in depth, which can be a liability since most companies value specialists over generalists. But the ones that recognize the value of a generalist will compensate you well for it.

you are.

[Krashed]

you are not special.

you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.

you are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.

we are the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world

-tyler durden, fight club

seriously though, i have felt the same way my whole life. i have always been the different one in all my classes cause it "seems" that i know a little of everything, except for what i need to know. i could spit out countless facts on the civil war, except for the dates of the battles (who cares of the day, time, and what washington had for breakfast, except to researchers, that information has little to do with us, teachers need to teach the significance of historic events, instead of the minute details that mean nothing, how can we learn about the past if we stop caring from hearing the same old details for 13 years of school then 4 years of college).

I would do great the first couple of weeks until I passed everybody else up and started reading ahead, finished the book, and started reading other material (the librarians knew me very well). Best thing I can say is just follow Tyler Durden for now in understanding that you are not special and just conform with everybody else. Do your best in school and STFU!

Uniquely bright?

[john_smith_45678]

I should have a 4.0 easy, but I'm pretty far from it.

Yeah, you probably are unique in thinking that you're bright.

ADD?

[frantzdb]

That sounds like textbook ADD symptoms. Treatment may help you to excel traditionally as well as in unconventional, broad ways.

You may be thinking "but I specifically mentioned an ability to direct my attention on things I like", but in fact, that is part of suite the ADD symptoms.

if you read /. at -1...

[Jeff Benjamin]

..... you probably wouldnt be asking that question here.

And thus, God spake.

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading all of this has motivated me to get off of my lazy "uniquely bright" ass and finish programming my damn game. Thanks for the inspirational kick in the pants!

I wish I knew all the answers

[Kakurenbo Shogun]

Like some others who've rsponded, a lot of what you said hits close to home. A few things I've learned:

1) The people who say to work on discipline know what they're talking about. You don't have to force yourself to finish EVERY project you start, but you'd better learn to finish the important ones, and to do so without putting them off for too long.

2) Do something you love. If your life is devoid of things you love to do, you'll probably go crazy from boredom. But also do things you don't love so much (going back to poitn #1--develop the discipline to do the necessary boring parts).

3) Find exceptional people with different interests from yours and work with them. You do the parts of the job you love, they do the parts they love, and if there are things that need to be done that none of you love, you go back to point #1 and do them. If important parts of a task are left undone, it won't matter how well any of you did your parts. Just because a part of a project doesn't feel important to YOU, don't think that it's not important.

4) One thing I'd recommend to ANYONE in college--get involved in something socially worthwhile. I was involved in international student organizations and Blue Key, for example. At one of the schools I attended, I was involved in the honors program (yes, partly academic, but also very much social). These are the places where you will meet exceptional people who will broaden your horizons and help you keep life interesting and meaningful. I can't stress this enough--if there is ANY way that you can make the time to get involved in such things, you will benefit from them immensly, and contribute something valuable to society.

5) Try to find what you want to major in without switching TOO many times. I finished school in 7 years (1/2 a year off just to work, 1/2 a year with a light class load, a few major changes, and a school transfer all lengthened it out). In the end, I was planning a double major, but got totally sick of school. So I figured out which one I could graduate in fastest and dropped the other. I didn't really care (and I don't think it really mattered) which I graduated in--I just wanted out. (Had I had more time for things mentioned in #4, I probably could have taken it longer, but still not indefinitely). It was SO nice to get out of school and into a job, where I was able to continue learning a lot on the job.

6) Try not to let one set of interests drive others from your life. I used to read a lot of literature. During school and my first few years of work, I read so much technical material that I largely lost touch with literature--a terrible shame.

7) This partly goes back to what I was expressing in #4, but just to emphasize an important point: be friendly, be kind, give service. One of the best jobs I ever had was as a tutor--I probably had more fun helping people learn who needed help and weren't afraid to ask for it than at any other job I've ever had. If you (and I'm not saying I think you do--I have no idea) feel that it's beneath your intellect to help people with things that are simple to you, then I feel sorry for you, because you're missing some of the best parts of life.

Well, that's enough for now. I don't know how much of that will be useful, but those are some lessons from my experience.

Diversify first year...

[IllogicalStudent]

...and find something that piques your interest. Best advice I can give you. Go undeclared first year, take the basic prerequisites for year 2 of the the program you are most interested in studying NOW (e.g. take 1st year calc and 1st year CS courses if you want to go that route) so that if you don't find something that interests you more, you can transfer in officially after your frosh year (assuming you get the marks), and for the rest of your timetable, take a little bit of everything else; especially stuff that you have no idea what it is about. I know several "geeks" who ended up loving first year anthro, and minoring/double degreeing in it, just to give one example. Taking random courses may worry you, but if you don't like something, you'll know within the first 2 lectures, giving ample time to drop it and swap in something else.

Myself, I ended up going to psychology after my first year, while doing the CS as a minor (and hearing repeatedly "wow, weird mix" as a result). Didn't know a thing about psych going into first year save, "a lot of chicks take it", and now I'm going for my Masters. So, in sum: diversify -- what you find interesting may surprise you.

Recognise the genius in others. (And study!)

[oregongirlie]

Everyone on this planet is better than you in some way. When you train yourself to easily tune in to their strengths, you will be able to relate on an effective level. (Then they will be able to see your genius too.) Also, get good grades. You know when you've studied enough or not. If you can get a 4.0, go sit at the table and crack a book. You mentioned it; it matters. Good grades are worth it if you really love learning. They are a ticket to creating knowledge. Some day life could present you with questions that you will want to answer. If you love learning, you will get to the end of that road and still have questions. What comes next? If you have the credentials, a university might let you use their resources to answer them. You have to earn that through fierce dedication though. That will mean focusing on things you might not be interested in at the moment. Quit distracting yourself with "love of learning" -- of course it's easy to wander about the library. You will have enough time to browse the world. Is this pushing a button? Own up; get to work.

Advice from someone a bit ahead of you (timewise).

[kcb93x]

Realizing I'm posting late, but oh well. Contact me if you want to talk more.

I just graduated last year (Class of 2003) with a GPA of 2.45. ACT score of 29. I am also an INTP.

First a little background...

Went through the school system K-6 in the gifted & talented program, 7th/8th in advanced English classes (where we discussed what was on our minds, topics of the day, very cool class...some latin for our actual english along with 2 book reports per quarter)

When I hit Junior High School, I started bombing classes because:

1) From K-6 I'd never had to take work home or study for tests - straight A's, few B's. Never had to build a work ethic.
2) Classes started to be 'not interesting' somewhat. (Not a biggie til High School)

High School, still didn't learn. Failed Chemistry and Physics, due to lack of interest. Short attention span to the uninteresting, almost total devotion to that which I'm interested in. (Ask my family, friends and gf)

However, I found that I really loved computers. So from my sophmore year to my senior year (and still doing it) I volunteered with our tech guy (who amazingly, ended up having graduated with my aunt...totally unrelated) Got perhaps the MOST valuable knowlege there. Plus, now if I were to ever need a job, anyone who worked in the District would probably hire me - I was the kid who knew and knows all new tech. From Palm Pilots to WAPs, Laptops to software, the tech and I knew all, or at least knew how to find out.

I'm now attending college (Brown College, to be exact) pursuing an Associate's Degree and eventually a Bachelor's Degree in Technology (in INT (Information Networking Technology))

I also work for myself, doing computer consulting, networking, sales and support, which I all love. The best part, I make my own hours, and anything I don't want to do, I can suggest others who can do the same work.

I've been largely self-taught in the computer arena, with little experience in the rest (some forced, some by myself) Still learning, but I'm in much the same boat as you.

Do feel free to contact me if you (or anyone else for that matter) wants to know more, or have any questions.

Sink or swim

[ajlitt]

From someone who has left college before graduating* and managed to get and hold down a job in a field of his interest, let me be the first to point out that there's nothing wrong with making that decision. I've found that a college degree is just your foot-in-the-door at the beginning of your career for some jobs. Many employers do know the value of experience and will overlook college if your skill set is strong enough.

However, make sure that you're not just fooling yourself out of fear or laziness into skipping college. If you're not the hot shit you claim to be, and you're missing your college mealticket degree, you'll be flipping burgers in no time flat. College is hard work, but so is a real job.

What worked for me? Go to college. Work part-time or between semesters / summers at an internship in your field of interest. One of those two, and hopefully both will give you the honest resume-filler you need to land a real job. And if you've spent a couple of years struggling in college, but you've learned how to do a particular job, then you can afford to leave school and pursue your career.

Don't waste a good opportunity, 'cause it only gets harder to find the time to pick up new skills when you're working full-time.

*(not for a lack of trying, btw)

Re:Oh brother

[shrewmy]

These aren't "interesting"? Or these?

Granted I'd rather drive an exotic then a GM no questions asked, but I love my 93 Grand Prix.

But BMW?!?! granted the roadsters are nice but BMWs at least around here are just as common as any run of the mill domestic

There's some people out there that have swapped in 5-speed trannys (pre 97 i believe though).

The newer ones are uugggggglyy though.

Shouldn't have that gotten modded offtopic though? It's not really flamebait... but then again that's slashdot for you.

Mods please mod me offtopic, thank you.

Some real advice

[cshabazian]

First of all, ignore the people who are responding to your request with jealousy or BS.

I am 37 years old, and grew up in a similar situation. At an early age, I was given the standardized IQ test, and told that I qualified for admission to MENSA. My entire academic career up to the end of high school, I was able to slide by with the minimal amount of work, while bringing home "passable" grades. HOWEVER, my entire life, I was told that I wasn't "living up to my potential".

I dropped out of college because I convinced myself that I didn't need an education. In reality, I dropped out because I never learned to study properly, and never saw the value of an education.

Somehow, I have been able to suceed to a point in my career that I have no right to expect. I am currently a Vice President at a Fortune 100 company. But it didn't come without a LOT of jobs at many companies of various sizes, working my way up the ladder and having to prove myself more than others because of my LACK of a degree. Also, if I didn't have some specialized Linux skills, there is no way I ever would have gotten my current position, the Fortune 100 just doesn't hire people at my level without academic credentials.

Amazingly, I recently returned to school to finish my degree through an executive program, and find that I am learning more than I ever could have imagined I didn't know. I always regretted not having my degree, and often have wondered where my career would be today if I had buckled down and spent a few years applying myself instead of being so arogant that I felt I didn't need an education...

So, GET your education. It really doesn't matter WHAT you major in, although if you can combine your interests with your degree, it should make it easier. Don't look back on your life 20 years later and wonder "what if...."

For those of you who will read this and cast doubt and negative reaction toward my post, save it. At my age and position in life, I have no need for your approval. If you are so insecure in who you are, maybe you should focus your energy there instead.

Sorry for that last paragraph, but I have gotten tired of all the immature comments that I see other get, and have even received myself when someone attempts to help another /.er

Alcohol

[kinema]

Me? I drink. Quite a lot as often as possible.

Whoops...didn't answer...

[kcb93x]

I just realized I didn't answer the last of your questions, which was what advice I would have.

Do what most of the rest (of those who aren't self-absorbed, saying 'learn your place' basically, ignore them) have been saying:

Figure out what you love to do.

Now figure out how to get paid for it.

Even if it doesn't pay alot, having a great amount of money isn't everything. Enjoying life is. I'm having a great time, I go year-round for 3 years, 4 days a week, and I get to work on computers, any amount I want (picking how much work I do, and what kinds of work) plus I still have time to do what I want to do on weekends. Live at home if you can, (and if you can stand it) because it'll make the whole money issue much less.

Suggestion for college: perhaps see if parents have paid off morgage (or if can take out more on it) as that's how we're doing it for me. Lowest interest rate. Plus, took part of my college money and put it towards a brand-new car, so I wouldn't have to worry about it breaking down. Will run it into the ground, so by the time I buy a new one, I won't have to worry quite so much (Figure 5+ years down the road)

Good luck, and feel free to ask questions.

Your own projects can be more useful than a degree

[Anonymous Coward]

So start working on them ASAP, but keep passing the classes so that you can reach the good stuff at the end. In your free time, try to keep learning new things, even if they seem like "time-wasters" at times. By the time you get out you will have enough cumulative talent, and previous projects to point to, that getting the work you want, or starting the business you want, will prove to be a simple task.

College can be valuable, but if you really are quite bright, it's not by doing what you're supposed to and no more. You fend for yourself at that point, because many people can't understand having a situation where classes aren't good enough. It's only by beating your head against the wall at the really tough tasks that you can realize useful potential.

a bit of advice

[Anonymous Coward]

firstly, i have no idea how smart you are, but it's generally a good idea to keep that in check.in my view, no human can be all that smart. we're pretty fucking pathetic.

secondly, if you want to know what to do with yourself, don't go to college "because it's there". this stupid culture has somehow gotten the idea that going to college is a good idea for everyone. you know: because it helps with the job market. keep your mind off money. you'll always find some way to survive. if you go to college, do it because you want to learn something (what a novel idea). maybe the type of thing that you couldn't learn on your own and are really interested in.
speaking of which: figure out why you're here. i don't mean find religion. i mean find your function as a human being. if you have a decent working brain, then odds are there is something or another that you can do that you'll enjoy that will expand your consciousness and communicate something new to others. so what is it?
odds are you don't know yet. i don't think there's a guarantee that college will help you out with that. it may be just more unnecessary work to cloud your thoughts.
find what you want to do. think about it, search. there's no rush. then just do it. if it involves college, THEN go to college. if it doesn't, fine. live like an authentic human being.

drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity

[Associate]

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
-HST

Either that or start a cult. You could always join mine.

And yes, I am serious.

re: Unusally Bright

[js9kv]

Finding focus is the hard thing, so focus on not being focused! I've done this for ages and I've been very successful so far. I was professionally tested as an INTP 20 years ago when I was programming for a psychology firm. Since then I've gone to college (and dropped out) got married, worked as a computer consultant, network engineer, systems manager, network manager, and now I'm doing internet security stuff. As an INTP, ones focus can be on anything, but you do loose interest on anything once you've done it long enough. At college I learned confidence and grew out of my INTP and became an ENTP - not that this is a requirement of growth and success, but ultimately it led me away from programming. In general, if there's a field you enjoy and are good at, but the field is diverse, work in little corners of it over time - once you know all the corners, you may have a clue where to go next. It took 20 years to realize that I want to be a writer or maybe even go to law school. It's critical that you make good choices, and learn to walk away from bad ones.

You are screwed

[veritron]

There are many of us here who are exactly the same way.

The big problem that you'll face is that there are many, many smart people. 50% of the population's going to be "above average" in intelligence, after all. Employers would rather have a stupid person who actually gets stuff done rather than a smart person who doesn't - and worse still, they don't have to choose. There a lot of smart people who can actually sit down and force themselves to do unpleasant, boring tasks - just about everyone with a phD has had to deal with incredible tedium, especially people with phD's in the sciences.

Since you're going into college, I'd suggest staying the hell away from an engineering major, or any major that has right answers - your only prayer is the liberal arts. You're probably going to have a difficult time with college if only because you're undisciplined, and college has very little inherent structure. Since it's possible to not go to classes without any short-term consequences, and you're a very short-term kind of person, you could flunk out your first semester. Be careful.

Best case scenario, you'll probably end up working for yourself. You're the worst kind of employee, the biggest pain in the ass - you're too smart for menial work so that'll get done half-assed, and you'll get bored of whatever work you're given very, very quickly, but if you're given a really creative-type job with a lot of lattitude, you'll probably end up doing nothing and failing miserably.

Re:You are screwed

[ediron2]

Screwed?!! Whoa, talk about bitter and overgeneralizing... Is that you, Dr. Laura?!

My take:

• Most importantly, recognize that you Work to Live, not Live to Work. Do whatever job seems damn lucrative and vaguely interesting at the time. Ideally, pick a field that lets you adjust course every couple years to change the flavor of work you're doing. Adjust your resume and start looking when the stuff you're doing gets stale. And try to get 2 years per job minimum. Meanwhile, GET ENOUGH OF A LIFE TO WHERE WORK IS NOT THE FOCUS OF IT.
• Acquire some people skills. Lacking the dedication to be a guru with 25 years experience, you'll want to at least play nice with others and avoid friction. Learn to diplomatically accept unpleasant tasks, support others, and be an asset for work that way. If possible, learn that 'they call it work because it's unpleasant, otherwise they'd call it *fun*'.
• It sometimes is a huge PITA, but there are non-work dividends to having enough social skills to maintain relationships (unlike many proverbial nerds): if works sucks and you've got a wife and kids, at least there's someone to take your mind off stuff 16 hours a day.
• 50% of people are above average? Heh, it's more like 70% of the people, thanks to grade inflation.
• That said, I deeply identify with your self-description. I am regularly called the 'smartest' person they know by lots of folks. If you imagine a bell curve, 'above average' can also be construed to be the 10-20% of people that are NOT in the middle of the curve. I'd use that definition, rather than the parent poster's.
• So, I'm almost 40. I took over a decade for college, including grad school. I changed majors slightly, flunked lots of courses, retook them and others until I got the 3.0 GPA I felt was a critical minimum. I made the dean's list once in college, and from junior-high on, my GPA would embarass most folks. That said, I've rarely met anyone who could outdo me on standard tests, from SAT, ACT, etc. to the GRE's. I'm well-adjusted, happily married with kids, have been tweaking computers since I was 12, and have migrated from computer programmer to admin, to tech lead to programmer to information security consultant. I've also done chip design, electrical engineering, civil engineering, environmental engineering, field Civil/Arch/Struc engineering, surveying, carpentry, in small doses. Meanwhile, my hobbies have migrated thru games, small businesses I've started, writing, music, homebrewing, botany, cooking, bartending, booking performers and bands, old-home restoration, and so much more. My job now is for a small consultancy, so I tend to go from start to finish with a client in 2 to 14 months, which is plenty of time to get deep exposure and even bored, but never more than I can endure. Oh, and I do a handful of charitable websites. Variety is the spice of life, pal. If you're the same cog in the same massive bureaucracy for too long, find a different job until things bounce around enough to be interesting.
• If I had it all to do over again, I'd either fast-track thru an engineering degree and focus on a field that would let me get a PE, become a partner, and retire relatively early. Or I'd be a plumber or a chef. The jobs are both somewhat redundant but the pay is decent, the work is universally needed, and people are glad to see you. Third choice is to pick a career that'd give me enough long-term job security to let me comfortably fade to half-time status early on, like investment advisor, insurance broker, real estate salesman, or attorney. Some job where a fair share of people tend to marry themselves to a damn good agent and stick with them forever, guaranteeing your job. Some careers do have a shield against ageism.
• Avoid working for yourself, if you get bored easily and tend to not follow thru. People in business for themselves generally get there through doggedness. Being too smart is almost a bad thing for this sort of work. Just as you get efficient,

Re:You are screwed

[Handyman]

From my personal experience I need to make the following comment about classes. Classes are highly overrated, at least by everybody I know. People go to classes for one of the following reasons:

1. To avoid having to read the book. They think everything that is covered in the classes is important, everything that isn't, isn't. In effect, going to classes is the way to learn the least possible amount that will still get you to pass.

2. It's easy. No effort required, someone is reading the book to you.

3. Habits left over from the days they were still in school.

4. Pressure from people (parents, classmates, etc.) who think going to classes is the thing that you do when you study.

5. Social purposes -- meet classmates, etc.

6. To meet the teachers. No, that doesn't count as social purposes. It may eventually help you to get a degree.

Basically, classes are good for anything but learning what you want to learn. They can really be very demotivating because of the less intelligent people who are constantly slowing down the pace. The book is usually better written than the sheets used in class, and as an added benefit it doesn't require you to wait until next week's class to hear how the story continues.

Since about a year after I started studying at university, I simply stopped attending classes, and it hasn't hurt me in the least: my grades went up from 6ish (in a 1-to-10 system, 10 is best) to 9.5ish, it all cost me less time, and I got to read the whole book for every course, so I actually learned more. And I had time to do other stuff that I liked. As an added bonus, the courses didn't seem like a long haul anymore, because I was only working on the courses in a small number of relatively short, intense stretches. My perfect studying schedule for a course is as follows:

1. Read the book the first time (one week)

2. Let it rest for a couple of weeks. Then read it a second time and make notes of the most important things, a week before the exam (four days -- should yield about 10-20 pages of written notes)

3. Read through the notes and write down in separate notes what I didn't already know by heart by now (one day, should yield about 2-5 pages of notes).

4. Look at those last notes a couple more times until I really know those things. (half a day at most)

5. The evening before the exam, I read the full notes from (3) and (4) through once or twice. I usually notice that I actually know all of that by heart right now, so it won't take longer than one or two hours to do this.

This way of studying requires amazingly little discipline. Reading the book the first time usually comes easily, as it's only a short stretch that can be easily covered before you lose interest. The rest is done while everybody else is also cramming for their exams, which is a very short and manageable stretch as well. The only discipline required is to actually pick up the book again a week before the exam.

Your story sounds exactly like mine...

[JRHelgeson]

Why is it that if a girl is attractive, and she knows it, thats a good thing. However, if a person is smart, and knows it then they're considered pretentious?

I've always had a voracious appetite for learning, yet I hated school. Everyone I knew thought I had a 4.0 average in school, but I graduated in the bottom of my class with a 1.7GPA.

I'm a highly intelligent person with a well rounded knowledge in numerous areas. I am now an executive for a mid-sized corporation where things are going quite well. I never took traditional schooling seriously, and I'm far better because of it. I'm self educated and because of that I never, never stop learning. I can't tell you the number of people that I know with a doctorate degree, yet they're still unable to get a job because even though they're smart - they can't get a job outside of academia because the answers in the real world aren't found in the back of the book.

Most people I know that are highly intelligent never took school seriously. Those that did take school seriously are often book smart, but they're idiots in the real world.

The late President Reagan gave a speech to some college students when he was president. He stated: "When I was in college, I never took my schooling seriously, I was more interested in football than my classes. I'd like to say that I graduated at the top of my class, but I didn't. I graduated with a 'C' average... And I still look back on my college years and wonder what I could have accomplished if I'd taken my education more seriously."

I never took to a professor trying to teach me how to quit thinking logically. Example: Putting more cops on the streets means a lower crime rate. Thats logical, however, anyone that thinks otherwise must have an advanced degree and no longer considers logic when making decisions. That drives me nuts.

I say that whatever you do, you'll do just fine. Anyone that puts you down, just understand that they're not as gifted as you are, and therefore cannot recognize the gift - therefore they just resort to putting you down.

You can learn something from everyone

[vinn]

Everyone has a lesson to teach you. Maybe it's a woman who'll show you what heartbreak is. Maybe it's a bum on the street who shows you poverty. Take time to learn people's stories.

TENACITY!

[Grendel Drago]

this "stick-to-it-ness"...

TENACITY! It's called tenacity! I swear, the next grade-school teacher who I hear use the word "stick-to-it-ive-ness" is getting a swift and painful English lesson.

Seriously! It's a syllable shorter! Let's do a comparison! (In list form, because Slashdot's support for preformatted text is bad.)

1. Is it a real word?
   • Tenacity: Yes, and a good one as well!
   • Sticktoitiveness: No, and it never will be.
2. How many syllables does it have?
   • Tenacity: Four. Rolls right off the tongue.
   • Sticktoitiveness: Five. It's an ungainly hippo-in-a-tutu of a word.
3. Does it make you sound like a Special Ed teacher when you use it?
   • Tenacity: Not in the least.
   • Sticktoitiveness: Yes, if not straight-up retarded.

Stamp out sticktoitiveness wherever you see it. It's the red-headed stepchild of the English language. ...

This has gotten really, really offtopic. I have a pet peeve; this was a point onto which I could latch. I don't really have an issue with you, just with the word.

--grendel drago

Re:TENACITY!

[Zibblsnrt]

Is it a real world? Sticktoitiveness: No, and it never will be.

Bzzt!

-PS

Re:TENACITY!

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because it is listed at some third rate web site does not make it correct.

Re:TENACITY!

[Anonymous Coward]

I blame The Simpsons.
Burns: Questions?
Skinner: Well, uh, I'm gonna take advantage of this rare opportunity even if you children aren't interested. Ah, which do you think is more important: hard work, or stick-to-it-iveness?
Burns: Are there any real questions?

Re:TENACITY!

[Ed Avis]

Can anyone give the true form of this Simpsons quotation? Burns: Any questions? Skinner: Which is more important, ___ or stickatititude? Burns: Any _real_ questions?

Re:TENACITY!

[flappinbooger]

Or, perseverance.

Re:TENACITY!

[Anonymous Coward]

WRONG

It is not a word. It is at best a colloquialism. At worst it is a sentence with two grammatically incorrect suffixes glued to it like bumper stickers. A marketing committee added it to the dictionary, not a scholar of language.

Re:TENACITY!

[mariox19]

You're right. "Stick-to-it-iveness" is just salesman-speak. It's the kind of nonsense business people come up with all the time -- making up words, or misusing words. (Take, for example, paradigm; or, a recent classified ad I saw: "Excite your career!")

Please -- give us all a break from that kind of nonsense!

Re:TENACITY!

[RALE007]

stick-to-itiveness ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stk-t-tv-ns)
n. Informal

aka: We're including this non-word in the dictionary in case some jackass uses it and you don't know wtf they're trying to say.

Also included on the wonderful site you referenced:

aint

phattest

Aint my sticktoitiveness be the phattest in proving proper words?

Re:TENACITY!

[ifwm]

I agree. These made up words have infected the language like virii.....

Re:TENACITY!

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

These made up words have infected the language like virii...

Which, incidentally, is itself a made up word. :-)

(Or have I just fallen for a cunning and deliberate pun? :-/)

Re:TENACITY!

[jarich]

This has gotten really, really offtopic. I have a pet peeve; this was a point onto which I could latch. I don't really have an issue with you, just with the word.

No offense taken. Actually, I find it funny that more attention went to the vocabulary than the idea in the post... but everyone apparently understood the meaning. ;)

btw, I quoted "stick-to-it-ness" to ensure nobody would think it was a real word. Apparently it didn't work. (heh)

Re:TENACITY!

[Zibblsnrt]

I won't go so far as to quote James Nicoll, but I will say that what's valid in a language is defined by the users, not by the textbooks. If enough people use a word, then sure, it's valid. "Ain't" is a perfectly valid word in English, even if some English professors with sticks up their asses would howl about the eroding purity of the Perfect Tongue.

Re:TENACITY!

[Zibblsnrt]

Languages are defined by their users, not their scholars. The evolution of the way a language used can be summed up with the words "de facto," whether grammarnazis like it or not.

Do you really think folks care if a committee gets together to decide whether something may or may not be a word? I don't. If a word is used often enough by people, then it's a valid construction as a fait accompli.

Re:TENACITY!

[ThomK]

I perfer tenacious-iss-ness myself.

Re:TENACITY!

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, I think I'll also point out that YOUR USE of the "scraping-a-fork-in-my-ear" word matched the syllable count of tenacity.

Re:TENACITY!

[Texas Rose on Lava L]

And nothing short of a nukular bomb will ever get rid of those damn virii.

I can't afford to graduate

[eric76]

As long as I'm a student each fall, I can get major medical insurance from the university and pay student insurance rates.

Next year will be my 19th year of college.

It's simple in the end. But it's not easy.

[ThoreauHD]

You wanted to know why you can't look at a book and a topic on one plane of thought for months on end. You can only do that if you are a fairly unadaptable and to be honest, simple person.

For instance, people that can memorize subjects to infinity but then not know what they have learned a week later. Then you have the office worker type that couldn't solve anything unless it was given in a formula or in the book. Then you have the folks that just like solving problems and are very good at it, but can only understand it within the realm that it has been given them- and never can look beyond for it's purpose. "What is it, in and of itself.", essentially.

People that know how to learn have to connect the dots and see patterns in which all subjects eventually coalesce. This ability can be either taught or innate. And this is the trait that you want the person to have that is trying to save you from drowning in a vault of H2O with the clock ticking. If you want somebody to cook meals for you or do your payroll or prescribe medication or put caps on your teeth, then the former would be better suited.

The first collection of traditional information gatherers can advance in school easily. They can therefore come into the workforce a step up above people without it regardless of if they can learn and solve problems on their own and under pressure.

You, meanwhile will have to work your ass off to prove yourself and to get to their salary/status level. But, after about 5 years in the workforce, you will be able to match and surpass them because your skillset and accomplishments will be concrete and quantifiable, while they have only thier degree and a "I worked here" job history. If you want to hypothesize which is better, lets compare say Albert Einstein or Bill Gates to oohhhh... anyone. I hate Gates, but he has for better or worse accomplished a great deal just from learning to overcome his competition on a high school diploma.

In any case, the jist is this. School will always be boring because they do not know the answers in the end. They are fucking clueless in all respects. And I say this because if you don't know what happens in the end, then you are just guessing in the present. Modern schools do not teach you to learn. And knowing how to learn and adapt is more important than anything else you will ever need to know.

Who would you choose to keep you from drowning in a undescript sealed tank of water? The wank that memorized everything or worse- thinks he therefore understands everything?

And if you are anything like me, it is a glaring hole or a splinter in your mind when you get to the end of say- quantum mechanics or "advanced" physics. The don't even know how to define or create gravity yet. A basic priciple of life for 100K years since this race has been hatched. That's just depressingly sad.

Now, what should you do with your life to harness this? Don't worry about it. That's the great thing about being able to see endgame relationships aka adapt in realtime. You will excel at what you choose no matter what. You should just do what you do now when you aren't working or at school. In the quiet of your own home or wherever you feel most focused- choose that task to go after. Whatever ability you have with the greatest sense of intuition would be the best bet. It won't steer you wrong.

And that's it. It's hard, but you'll see/create things that actually benefit the evolution of mankind, rather than fill an immediate consumeristic need. Is that deep or what? Woohoo.. how exciting. OK, must be ging now.

In college, take XXX 301 instead of XXX 101

[Joosy]

Since you're just going into college, I'd talk with a counselor about being able to satisfy general education requirements by taking more interesting and challenging classes than the "101" level classes that most are herded into.

For example almost everyone took Psych 101, which was (from accounts I heard) a tired rehash of the well-known psych theories delivered by a bored lecturer in a cavernous lecture hall. Instead I satisfied my psych requirement (and more) by taking a 300 level and a 400 level class. The 400 level class - Social Psychology - was a small class taught be an enthusiastic professor which changed forever the way I understand human behavior.

I also took upper level history and English classes to satisfy the general ed requirements. The funny thing is that even though the material was more advanced and interesting, the work wasn't really any harder. It did, however, usually require more creative thinking, but I gather that's what you're after anyway.

Good luck!

Go to college

[shadowmatter]

Just _go_. Please don't think you're too smart for college -- truth be told, no one is. If you think you are, I encourage you to go to CMU, MIT, or Caltech and be humbled by others who are just as smart as you are.

Then, once you get there, I advise you to go look for people in fields you're interested in, and mingle with them. You'll make great friends and learn a lot to boot. While I've been at UCLA, I've done the following:

Freshman year: Worked in the journalism department (school newspaper). Helped make exclusive web content for the paper. Learned some ASP, and met some people who were brilliant at English. Helped me improve my writing.

Sophomore year: Worked in the physics department. Helped automate testing for photomultiplier tubes for use in an electromagnetic calorimeter. Met some great people again, and learned a little bit of physics from grad students.

Junior year: Worked in the geology department. Wrote Matlab programs that analyze earthquake data, and wrote a program that visualizes earthquake shockwaves. Got to go do some field work on weekends for kicks. Learned a lot about earthquakes and their mechanics. Again, met great people.

Senior year: Worked in the EE department. Of all things, I got to make robots out of Legos, and program their movement using Java (the EE part comes in because the robots carry antennas...). Met some brilliant people, honed my Java skills, and hey -- I got to play with Legos as my job. w00t.

Senior year: Worked in the CS department. Hooked up with a professor for research on peer-to-peer networks. As a result, I'm quite fluent in all state-of-the-art p2p topologies -- Chord, Pastry, Kademlia, Koorde, etc. They're things I never would have learned about otherwise, most likely. Oh yeah, brilliant people, fun job, yada yada yada. Plus, it's got me making my own state of the art peer to peer program on the side (by the end of summer, Freenet and eMule had better watch out ;)

Anyway, my point is -- there's so much freakin cool stuff for you to do at college. People who are smarter than you (oh yes, get off your high horse -- at college, they do exist!) doing things you've never even dreamed about. Go out and explore. Help them with what they're doing.

Make a difference, and have fun at the same time.

- sm

Teenage Illusion Module

[Vadim Makarov]

You may want to read about "Teenage Illusion Module" (TIM). Whatever it is, your TIM is obviously working perfectly healthy for your age :)

Pah!

[Grendel Drago]

How can you encourage one to "figure out your own scoring system", and then claim that there's no "point", no meaning to life? What meaning there is is what we put in. It's what we make of it---like anything of value.

What else would you want? If some sort of meaning were handed to you, you'd piss on it. (As well you should.) Hell, various churches try to do it all the time.

We have a blank slate from which to construct ourselves. Our success or failure in the process of that construction is entirely our own fault or triumph. What, exactly, is the problem? What other way would you have it? Do you have anything to say, other than spitting adolescent angst?

--grendel drago

Re:Pah!

[SparafucileMan]

We have a blank slate from which to construct ourselves.

This isn't true. If you were a blank slate, you wouldn't be connected to anything and wouldn't be influenced by any of the laws of physics. As it stands, you're gravity's bitch, you're roughly connected to everything in the universe, so...

There's alot more out there than you, assuming that you could even define precisely what is you, which you can't, as is clear from quantum mechanics and a billion religions. You can't seperate yourself from the world, buddy, so you can't distinguish entirely what is _your_ fault or triumph, even though you may be able to make some good approximations to the effect.

My experience

[Daegred]

Just going from my own experience, intelligence is nice, but motivation and hard work is better. A bit of background... I'm a 20 year old guy with a tested IQ of 143, personality type INTP, who started taking classes at a community college at 13. I got an associates degee in programming at 16 and my GED the next year. But I didn't have a real goal beyond graduating and four years later I've come to realize that I wasted with part-time jobs, taking fun classes and not even trying to define a goal. At the community college, I was taking classes that let me make A s without ever opening the textbook. I didn't need any motivation to do well in what I liked and was interested in. But when I wasn't interested in the class, I failed more times than not, because I had no motivation to succeed.

I'm planning on going to university in the fall so I can find out 1) how smart I am, really 2) how much I like CS 3) if my CS ideas can actually come to fruition. I had the chance to go years earlier but was too afraid to even try. The only dreams I've come up with are to study at MIT, work at Google or program a game or two. All these things could be helped with intelligence, but more importantly motivation and drive.

Right now, I'm currently 3 weeks into unemployment, I have no job offers and will probably have to move back in with family. I haven't figured out a goal yet, but if I hit the bottom like I think I'm going to, I hope it's something I can use to bounce back off of. Think about where you want to go with your education, and whether you'll have goals before you graduate.

game of go

[k-zed]

You should try learning the Game of Go.

Everything Aside

[Anonymous Coward]

What if you don't know what you want to do? What if you have not one idea in all what work you like to do? You've tried a lot and there doesn't seem to be anything. Eveything you try is boring after a while, not fun anymore and it all seems like work. What the hell do you do then? Guidence counselors don't work; they give you test's that are easily leadable, with questions that are more likely than not stupid. And any questions they ask you have to be answered by a guess on your part.. take a line and stick with it keep answering their questions til you can get away from them and figure out what you actually want to do... And after that you try numerous things and none seem right... is there any relief from that stress... High school was easy but it didn't show me at least any real intrests that were more than superficial... I'd equate myself with this poster, and it's all well and good to say some of the things that have been said previously, but none actually seemed to answer the question I got out of the post: "Those of you who've gone down the same road as I; What have you done?"

Join the US Marine Corps! That'll learn you!

[Anonymous Coward]

It'll either make you or break you.

Afterwards you'll have no problems with motivation whatsoever! And discipline? You'll have loads of it.

lol.

Some more advice

[ArsSineArtificio]

And the point of my post? There is none, just like there's no point in life. Life is like an old school video game: There's no real "finish," just see how many points you can rack up until you die.

Rule Three: get religion, or you'll end up a bitter, twisted weirdo like this guy.

Re:Some more advice

[sixtus6]

there's no point in life This is the kind of thinking that can be avoided by attending the right college. The course in Computer Science is for your vocation and your career, the course in Philosophy is for the rest of you on your journey. There is a point to it all, but it is up to you to find it.

Re:Some more advice

[quinkin]

Philosophy - well brought up. The perfect example of pointless activity in a pointless world.

Q (Disclaimer: Yes I majored in philosophy for one degree).

Like me

[Anonymous Coward]

Ignore most of the stuff here. It's garbage from bitter people.

Don't try to get satisfaction and meaning from work. You will get bored as soon as you master whatever you get into. Choose something that has requires a variety of skills and doesn't tie you down to the same location and routine. Yes there are jobs like that. I do commercial refrigeration service, which is challenging technically and business-wise. Keeps me interested and pays well. Whatever you do, work for someone smarter than you.

To keep yourself sane, pursue hobbies. Programming, sports, travel, all kinds of shop type hobbies, etc. Master difficult skills that are a combination of motor/thinking. Read everything you can get your hands on.

Derek

typical...

[Anonymous Coward]

wasn't really sure what to think of this psuedo "ask slashdot".. but if there is one thing I have learned in life its that we are all smart and dumbasses in our own very special ways. why we have to rate ourselves as smarter or dumber (or better or worse) than the next guy is a problem society has in general.
i used to think i was really smart. in fact i thought i was a genious, until i learned my own, personal, limitations.. intellectually, physically, emotionally, etc. that just comes with life experience. and in the end you find out that everyone goes through the same things in life.

this kid is no different, and hopefully he/she will learn that very soon.

We are all individuals - even the bright ones

[bw5353]

Reading the other replies here, there are plenty of words of wisdom which surely helps as thought provokers.

The one thing I do not agree with, is all those people who say "it is like this". "You should do that." And so on. In not one single one of those entries I have seen any human insights that fit all - probably for the simple reason that a human insight that fits all is trivial, and there is no need to post trivial things.

Those entries are like so many of those bad American films and television series where you get a ridiculously simplified view of the world with one person at the end admitting "You were right all the time and I was wrong." Right and wrong. Black and white. Those things exist only in the imaginary of moral blockheads. However, there are "better" and "worse" answers to most questions, and one can get a decent discussion from that too.

By all means, use the blockhead entries and think about them, but have in mind that there is a very high likelihood that they do not apply 100% to your case.

OK, now over to my own opinions, which may fit your case more or less.

The painter Edvard Munch (of Scream fame), in his youth simply knew he had a talent. He played the violin well. He wrote decent poetry. And he painted. He knew he had a talent for something, but did not know which one to to develop. In the end he chose painting. I'm much like that, I feel I have a talent, but in contrast to Munch, I know it is not writing, it is not music, it is not painting, and that makes things quite difficult. There is a strong expression in there that lacks the means of getting out. My answer to the problem is simply to go on and live a happy life. It might in fact not have been any more fun being a person with a visible talent like, say, Bobby Fischer or Spike Milligan or Dudley Moore.

"Success" is not a mandatory condition for happiness, and it is definitely not a sufficient one.

My measured IQ puts me among the smarter people in Mensa, and I rarely meet people I could definitely say are brighter than me. But I keep meeting people I learn from, who succeed better than me at certain things, who behave completely irrationally and thereby end up in "better" positions. There are such a lot of things intelligence does not bring you. Being bright does not automatically mean you will be able to do anything you want to.

Life is beautiful, if you can feel it is beautiful, so enjoy it!

There are much more things to say on this subject, but I'd like to avoid repetitions, and I think most of the other important things have been expressed by other entries already.

Just as a reminder: The advice "think about it", is not necessarily a good advice. But it might be.

Re:We are all individuals - even the bright ones

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a free clue for you: anyone who says, "I rarely meet people who are smarter than me" is a fucking guaranteed moron. Congratulations.

Re:We are all individuals - even the bright ones

[bw5353]

"Here's a free clue for you: anyone who says, "I rarely meet people who are smarter than me" is a fucking guaranteed moron. Congratulations."

You remembered my birthday! Thanks a lot!

Take care of your whole mind

[Slur]

Practice meditation. Don't become an Idealogue. Know the difference between knowledge and experience. Feed your heart and mind. Travel. Get to know people. Be generous. Remember, we are energy converters. Devote your energy to being yourself, spontaneous, unencumbered by fears. Never succumb to paranois. Intelligent people are most often emotionally sensitive. When you feel slighted, forgive and grow beyond it. Live simply. Take on as much as you can.

We're counting on people like you to make Star Trek a reality.

Re:Take care of your whole mind

[Tackhead]

> Practice meditation. Don't become an Idealogue. Know the difference between knowledge and experience. Feed your heart and mind. Travel. Get to know people. Be generous. Remember, we are energy converters. Devote your energy to being yourself, spontaneous, unencumbered by fears. Never succumb to paranois. Intelligent people are most often emotionally sensitive. When you feel slighted, forgive and grow beyond it. Live simply. Take on as much as you can.
>
> We're counting on people like you to make Star Trek a reality.

Avoid zen kooks. Join a political party. Know the difference between knowledge and experience -- and realize that neither is as good as having connections. Feed your body and lusts. Travel to Florida. Get to know people you can blackmail. Be generous so they won't see it coming. Remember, we are energy converters for the spider-looking things in the Matrix. Devote your energy to advancing yourself in a methodical careful fashion. As Andy Grove of Intel said: "Only the paranoid survive". Intelligence people are most often able to exploit the emotionally sensitive. When you feel slighted, bear the grudge and pay it back 20 years from now. Live well. Take on less than the other guy.

We're counting on people like you to save us from Rick Berman's vision from becoming reality.

Re:Take care of your whole mind

[Slur]

Yes, and exactly what Tackhead said. They both apply.

Re:Ooooh

[Lonath]

I have the pleasure of working with a lot of people who think they're god's gift to humanity. Quite frankly I wish I had the receipt.

That's going into my quotes file.

You sound like you're in love with yourself...

[Assmasher]

...quirky, yet romantic. You know why you get bored with things quickly (probably once you feel you could complete them if you had the desire)? It is because you have no self discipline and you lack the self-knowledge to understand that *not* moving onto another project which interests before finishing the last is a sign of immaturity.

You need to do what comes naturaly.

[John Sokol]

From School to work, the world keeps trying to put people into pigeonholes. Expecting individuals to spend 10 years to become adequate at one profession. A resume that shows expertise in Digital and analog hardware design or windows and Linux software tend to turn many prospective employers off. Just add Machine shop, mechanical design, chemistry, optics, number theory, cryptography to that and now they just don't know what to make of you.

For myself and many people who I have met like me that can rise above average levels
, It is a challenge. There are many people who are threatened and territorial, and others who try to box you into one thing or control you. Or, if you are not Buzzword compliant will pass you bye.

I have never had the time/patients to deal with college and with no formal education find that I have constantly made a much higher income then most of my college graduate peers.

Income is about social interactions, and relating with other people, be it business owner or employee. So if your really smart in all areas and income is what your after this is the area for study. It took me a while to realize that better mousetraps don't bring money, selling them does.

With diverse interests and intelligence, you just need to focus yourself on profitable projects and avoid the interesting money pits. Things like making a telescope, robotics, model railroads, hot rods, and prime number theory unless you plan these for profit (in a realistic way) from the start, are bad. Focus only things that you can see potential profit in the near future, are good.

Another problem is what ever you pick and start doing for other people can get boring really fast. Work like fixing things, programming, or after creating some brilliant invention they expect you to be the full time engineer/scientist thereafter and forego all other interests are a real hazard.

I find being an all around expert in everything from Video Compression, Physics, Thermodynamics, mathematics, mechanical design, electronics, material science, keeps me constantly stimulated.

So I have many small companies that I work for or have founded, (little profit centers) that I just come in and do the interesting-creative-brilliant parts, pass on my knowledge to others and move on.

They key for anything is a long-term consistent effort. The odds of instant success are very low. Usually I find the technical part to be the most straightforward part but success is anything but instant. Even when creating lots of diverse things, I can't just go around starting projects then losing interest once I know the answers. I may start many things, but also make sure that I have others that I can then pass it over to when the interesting parts are worked out. And I must still make myself available so that they can stay on track and follow through.

Don't knock him too much...

[Anonymous Coward]

In a lot of ways, what you wrote is exactly how I feel. In fact, the skill sets are almost shockingly similar. Although I don't know that I'd go all up talking to the front page of Slashdot's Ask section about it, that's how I really feel.

Yes, I understand it's easy to sound arrogant and overestimating of one's one skills. I've been guilty of coming across as arrogant and probably still do from time to time. It's a battle - I know that I can do so many things and it's easy to state that directly and sound arrogant, but I need to come across somewhat more conservatively in some cases.

Really though, consider the age of this guy. Going into college. He's not "there" yet and he's asking what to do, where to go, for suggestions. He's raw potential talent, I think he knows there he has weaknesses and wants to help overcome those. Telling him that he's nothing special and whatnot is not really very nice in the first place and quite possibly totally inaccurate. First, realize that a person is very much what one believes oneself to be, so if he's sure he's going to be great, he just may well be. Second, I hate to admit it, but Slashdot isn't quite the place to find a lot of really diverse individuals. Yeah, there are plenty around here, but there are even more nerds/geeks/techies/whatever and it's totally possible those types missing something important.

As far as I go, I'm still on the path to wherever I'm headed. Let me give you the best advice I've picked up so far. First, go to school somewhere interesting. As horrifying as this may sound to some, this may not be a traditional technical or heavily academic place. I've tried for traditional and not been pleased. Next year I'm headed for The Evergreen State College (evergreen.edu) to further build my diversity and it looks like it's going to be great. Second, try a lot of things. That's part of Evergreen for me. I also have been working somewhere unique and different every single summer. Realize that you, at least for now have a limit as to how much time you can spend on something. But a summer is perfect. Go in, learn a lot, get a load done, and come out not bored and ready to try something new the next summer!

I think a major objective in life for people like you or I should be to look for a team of people to put around you to explore business things. There are lots of people out there, find some good ones and start a company as soon as you graduate.

Beyond that, I just urge you to explore lots of things. You could be really surprised at all you're good at. Being surprisingly good at all sorts of things is a skill in itself.

Finally, I would love to talk with you or anybody else similar directly. Seriously, I was shocked at how similar your writing style and interests and everything is to mine! You even have some exact phrases that I've used! If I didn't know better (as well as from a few of the constructions you use and the lack of anything about business interests), I would guess that I wrote this "ask" section. (Although I admit that I don't have that much of a question about all this, so I suppose not, but still, you get the point...)

You can get ahold of me by email at [g a l e n at my home dot net] (slaughtered spaces and whatnot to protect against spammers.) And I'm serious here, if you feel you line up with this guy, write me!

Re:Don't knock him too much...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow - you could create a circle-jerk club for sociopathic, pasty-faced acne-ridden losers who will never get laid!

Lucky bastard!

[pablodiazgutierrez]

I couldn't take college and dropped out because of my arrogance, similar as yours. As a result I make 12 an hour

I stayed in college for grad school and as a result I need Prozac everytime I calculate my hourly wage.

wOw...

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't realize just how many assholes there really were out there until I read these posts. "Your not special", "life has no point", etc. I don't think you posted here to get advice on life. I think you were looking for some feedback on what directions you should pursue so as not to waste your time. I can relate...I am the very same way as you describe yourself. I know I'm intelligent, technically minded, yet very creative...and I knew in my gut early on that there was sOMEthing that made me special...I just couldn't figure out what it was. Eventually, I discovered my interest in the arts. I tried drawing, which I did well...but it wasn't as rewarding as I wanted, so I lost interest. I tried acoustic guitar, and numerous other instruments...none held my interest. Then I discovered electronic music and synthesis. Here, I finally found my soul...I found the way to express how I felt by creating something real. And the freedome of creating my own sounds and ambience, combined with the increasingly lower costs of having a digital studio made it possible for me to realize my potential as an artist. I still have a job...a successful one I might add. I manage a team of 30 people in a tech environment...but this is merely an enabler for my passion, music. I think you need to start pursuing different areas of art, and see where you're attracted the most, while also pursuing your degree. When the mundane studies cause you to lose focus, fall back on the art, which will keep your soul alive and kicking. As far as life advice goes, I have one tip...and it's the biggest one I have learned, and quite possibly the most valuable. Forget about yourself. Start looking outside of yourself, and focus on doing things that benefit others first. Open doors for people, smile genuinely at everyone you meet. If you see someone is having a bad day, ask them what you can do to help. Pick up things that people drop and hand it back to them with a smile. When you make decisions, consider the implications they have on others. If you start living this way, not only will you create REAL friends, which is the REAL way to create valuable "connections", but you will also not be feeling sorry for yourself when things go awry. You have alot of lessons to learn,and some of them are necessarily painful...they will teach you endurance and strenghen your resolve. In the end though, you will have good friends, and be happy. And you will have art there to express your grief when it is too much to bear, and your happiness when you are on cloud nine (like when a gal you desire tells you she is falling for you!). Good luck!

I congratulate you ...

[dustpuppy]

on your stick-to-it-ness on teaching the unwashed masses in how to use the work tenacity! ;-P

I wish Glinda would arrive...

[jfarnold]

Move to Montana.
Build a shed.
Write letters to every cabal that has wronged you.
Simmer.
You'll know what to do next, snowflake.

Do what you want - There are handouts however

[Anonymous Coward]

Set goals and then accomplish them. Repeat this until you get old and don't give a damn any more.

I dropped out high school two weeks before graduating. At 30 I decided a job was in order. Got a job with a major corp on the assembly line. Presently hold a rather high engineering position at the same company. [Not all my career was at the same company.]

I won't knock formal education. While I recommend it for all, it's not what will carry you through life. Accomplish your goal and move on to the next one. Be willing to relocate. There's always others that know more than you do. Learn from them. Admit when you don't know the answer, but know where to find it. There are no dumb questions, except when you ask it for the third time. Budget time and dollars for projects at work on the high side. Then finish the project early and below cost. Don't come back from lunch late unless you were out with your manager. Instead, leave two hours early for lunch. Jeans are fine for important meetings, as long as you are wearing a sport coat. A conservative suit may be required on rare occasions. Own one. Ethics is a farce, but always be honest. Be a tad crazy or ride an overpowered sport motorcycle to work, or both.

The above has worked quite well for me. The only thing that I believe to have screwed up, is not moving to Switzerland, which has a life style I prefer. As many Swiss and others believe, take your job very seriously, but there's more to life than your job.

I'm not sure there is good advice for us...

[Snowlock45]

damn. I'm INTP on the real (but still rather insipid) meyers briggs. I unfortunately share all of your traits. You'll find out some things real quick in college which I am sure you already started to learn in high school. You are a loner by nature and could care less what grades you get. It's not important what they think you get out of it, it's what you think you get out of a class. I spent 6 years in undergraduate study... (the standard is 4 for anyone not familiar) I bounced from major to major and took more classes than you could believe. When I graduated, I had transferred once, gone to 3 summer sessions for intensive courses, and ended up graduating from one of the biggest universities in the USA with the most credits ever accumulated by an undergrad at their university. I walked away with 2 degrees (I had enough credits to give me a second one so why not.) The majors I finished were history and philosophy. Once again, these were not my only majors I was going for. Merely the ones I finished first. I figured I needed to get out of undergrad soon and go to grad school (in something). What am I doing now recently out of college? applying for grad school. Going either into PhD neuroscience or MD neurosurgery. I should also point out I am currently working crappy jobs until I get into grad school because no company will hire someone who is more qualified than 99.9% of their managers. If seeking employment stay away from larger corp.s, they see intelligence as the ablility of a worker to be able to escape after the company 'invests so much training' in you.

You will find that such things like the MCAT,GRE and (for you) SATs were/are easy. It is good that you'll do well on standardized tests because your grades will likely suck because like me you will flit around to courses and subjects you are not in the least good at but which are so damned interesting. (I took ancient latin and sanscrit as classes while trying to do a physics major which still technically remains only about half done, same as math and comp sci.)

Advice if I had to do it over? Not sure. I am not one to be able togive good advice considering my track record. Definitely go to college and finish it. Be prepared to be confronted with the most amazing stupidity on the part of administation. (DO NOT try to change this at your school... that is a mistake I made.) I see too many people with potential and the 'spark' of innovation who fuck up by not finishing college. I would say narrow down your field as best as possible and limit what you take as classes. Don't go too far afield. I never meant to get a history or philosphy degree. I finished the majors by accident by taking interesting classes and decided to stop and go on to other things. You won't find too many people that are like you, slashdot is a nice collection where you might meet some, but in the real world we are few and far between.

On a random note, take as many random phys ed classes as possible. I have more hobbies than is healthy and many things (scuba, kayaking, windsurfing, racquetball, whitewater rafting, fencing, etc etc etc) are all because I decided to go out and try esoteric things which I might not have found elsewhere. Generally if you don't do this stuff in college where others want to also, and it is cheap to do them (and it is) then you might miss out completely on them.

Give it a few years...

[Anonymous Coward]

First, the cynical stuff. Yeah, you may be in the top 1% of the nation, but with a population of 250 MILLION that still leaves you with 2.5 million peers. You're as special as any individual, but you aren't THAT special. Just one of those sobering facts of life.

And damn the self esteem movement for foisting the "you're spai-shul!" mentality on us*shakes fist*You aren't entitled to anything. You aren't God's gift to mankind. You just are. Self assurance is important for quality of life, but dont let it become hubris. Don't take an antagonistic approach with the world or it WILL smack you down. It'll probably smack you down anyway, but if you can separate self worth from external factors and understand the world doesn't "owe" you anything or even care and that doesn't mean dick, you'll be better equipped to roll with the punches. You'll have the perspective to see set backs are just that - set backs - and don't mean anything more than "I need to try again or try a different approach." Which SHOULD have been the message of the self esteem movement, but it somehow got lost in feel good coddling of wounded egos.</rant>

Secondly, a lot of the comments here are spot on. Raw ability counts far less in this world than discipline and persistence. Talent can take you so far, but to be truly successful or stand out it also takes a lot of hard work and a little luck. Just as important is your ability to relate to and work with other people. The days of the lone genius toiling in solitude to make a breakthrough are all but over. These days, just about any field you end up working in is going to require you to be a part of a team. Also, sad but true, advancement in the academic, corporate AND governmental worlds is going to be determined just as much by how well you relate to your superiors as it is by your raw performance. If you cant maintain good relationships with others, expect to be frequently passed up for less qualified candidates.

Maybe instead of college you should consider working a crap job full time for a while - for instance, call center work. In my case, THAT more than anything gave me to willpower to get through the boring, mundane crap that awaits in college. It also taught me how the 'real world' works and that: A) it isn't as bad as you think and B) you can be the brightest person in the world, but it wont be worth crap if you don't produce results and cant gird yourself to put up with the politics and other 'mundane people stuff' that make the world tick. Oh, and C) it taught me that I don't ever EVER want to be stuck with that kind of work again - therefor, no matter how boring, I will put up with all the BS so I can get to something better.

All that said, a lot of this just sounds like adolescance. There's certain wisdom to the old idea that some people are just late bloomers. This goes mentally as well as physically. Modern imaging techniques have taught us that changes in brain structure continue well into your twenties. Your lack of focus is in part just a sign that you aren't done growing yet. Give it time, and try avoiding college for a while so you can work on other skills. Saving money from a job also doesn't hurt. And you'll do a lot less damage to yourself if you fuck around and switch work frequently than if you go to school and get a bunch of F's on your record. Not to mention you wont be throwing money down the toilet for the privilege.

Yes, I really this topic is probably a troll and I realize it's been beaten to death, but I wanted to throw my inflation adjusted $.02 in anyway.

Re:Give it a few years...

[Anonymous Coward]

Forgot to put this in...

Above all, don't be too worried about "ruining" your life. A lot of bright kids do get a lot of BS pressure. I know my parents were always nagging me that if I didn't keep my grades up it would be the end of the world. Bull. The only way your life can be "ruined" is if you feel it isn't worth living. So. Relax. Give yourself the luxury of a few years to A) grow up and B) figure out exactly what you'd like to do. As the HUGE number of comments here prove, there are many different paths you can take. Don't feel pressured into chosing just now. You're young. Chances are social security will collapse and you'll have to work longer anyway, so you might as well enjoy things now before you enter the hard slog of career and family and all that junk. Unless you put a felony or something on your record, you aren't going to ruin your life.

You don't get to decide if you're intelligent.

[Anonymous Coward]

When you are explaining to others how smart you are, you are probably incorrect in your assesment. Other people will let you know where you stand.

Cavet: No one is qualified to rank you more than a few levels higher than themselves. To "Joe Sixpack" (How anyone can refer to themselves like that boggles me, and they do.. they do..) anyone who goes home and doesn't drown their sorry existance in beer and sports is a "God". When they call you a God, remember they also call the neighbors kid that because he can install video games without assistance.

Want to beleive you're really really smart? Find the smartest people you can, when they come to you for the problems they can't handle, you are smart. Note: Don't think that because your own problems stump others you are more or competatively intelligent, you may just have a natural talent for really fucking thing up.

Now for some possibly useful advice. You're overimpressed with yourself, you may actually be a genius but you have no where near demonstrated that well enough to be so proud of yourself, find some humility and then go earn the right to loose it. You're about to enter college, do a little partying, a lot of studying, and most importantly, do crazy shit. You *can* do anything, and in college you will have access to the brainpower and resources to do it, if you get to the end with nothing more than a Summa Cum Laude Sciences degree (It doesn't actually have to be a Science degree, as long as it's not basketweaving), you've blown an incredible chance. If you don't do well in your studies either, well.. we need worker drones, it's not like you won't be of use to society.

I agree with this

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone deserves respect. Plus How to Win Friends and Influence People is a wonderful book.

Re:Many types of skill ....RECURSION

[Anonymous Coward]

Note that the Parent was found....
ON SLASHDOT!

Prior art

[Anonymous Coward]

"You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father." [Matthew 5:13-16]

because

[unknown51a]

Justr because you think your special it doesn't mean you are, thinking your better than other people will not get you anywhere in life.

Go to a small school.

[YouHaveSnail]

If you feel that you're smart but easily bored and have a hard time sticking with something, find yourself a smallish college rather than a large university. There are way too many distractions at large schools, and much less support structure.

At a smaller school, your professors might actually a) teach your classes; b) learn your name; c) take some sort of interest in you. Just knowing that your professors know you might help keep you on the right path. You won't so easily blow off classes and/or assignments.

If you find that you're having trouble with something (academic or personal), and you will, it's more likely that you'll either seek help or someone will notice and offer a little help before a small problem becomes a big one.

A small school may offer more chances to develop strong and lasting friendships, too. You'll have more interaction with a smaller group of people, and some of those will become close friends.

You may be taller than your parents these days, but you've still got some emotional and intellectual growing to do. College is a good place for that, and it's often fun, but it's not always easy. Go find a place where you can get the support you need to work on the things that are hard for you.

College is about kissing ass...

[bwilliam13]

And you might learn something you didn't know between ass-kissing sessions with professors. It's about giving people what they want, getting their approval, and moving on. It's a giant, real-world, real-time video game really. There are rules. If you don't follow those rules, you fail. That's college in two paragraphs. What I suggest you do is find what you like, find out how to make some money at it, retire early, and do what you want for the rest of your life...whether that includes going to school or not, doesn't matter. If you are as smart as you think you are, you should have no problem making it happen with a good work ethic. Clear as mud? Thought so. Life/college/whatever else is what you make of it. You gotta figure it out for yourself.

Asking what to do on slashdot ......

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey,

You cant be realy bright if you think slashdot is full of bright people :)

Let me point out my little observation. Okay there is no typical slashdot user. But from what I can see there are lots of sysadmin types, web designers and programmers. There are quite a few grad students too. But the funny thing is everyone thinks they are intelligent too. But they dont understand its no big deal. The sysadmin types are the guys whho irritate me the most. I dont know why but ...they thik they are highly intelligent becase they do "cool" things. And you also have stupid programmers ...man they make me laugh. ...but quite a few intellectal types too. But hey what the hell ....all slashdot users are nerds and thats what matters. Where am I going with this post ? Nowhere. But I sorta wanted to see who reads at -1. thanks.

Re:Asking what to do on slashdot ......

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen. What a massive collection of pretentious, no-social-skill-having losers. This place makes me fucking sick.

Re:College Life ...and Life after College

[Anonymous Coward]

Having a BS degree does little for you.
NOT having a BS degree does much AGAINST you.

Insert obligatory "BS" remark here!

- A 48 year old Geek who's "been dere 'n' done dat"

The path to ?

[AftanGustur]

I couldn't take college and dropped out because of my arrogance, similar as yours.

Maybe you were arrogant, maybe not. There are a lot of smart people who don't fit into the traditional understanding of "intelligent", "smart" and "clever".

Robert Sternberg is a psycologist whose life project is to show that there are multiple types of "intelligence" and current "intelligence tests" only measure one or two of them.

When we look at the life of people such as Tomas Edison for example, who dropped out of school and was then fired from work for being "too clever" (he created a auto-responder to a morse signal that was supposed to verify if he was awake) it becomes obvious that the school system is not suited for educating some of the smartest people that have lived.

I belive Sternberg is righ, I belive there are very intelligent young people who are being labelled "arrogant" and a lot of other negative names because they are not "connecting" with the "system" as they "should be".

So what is the right way for such people ? Follow your instinct.. It will be hard, it will be difficult and there will be ups and downs but at least you have a chance to be *yourself*

Re:The path to ?

[linzeal]

I'm taking online coursework and self-educating my self with Google everyday. Why are there schools anymore, who needs a physical teacher past the 5th grade or so? When there are so many awesome tutorials and forums online it is mind boggling the amount of money wasted on "education" that only makes people dependent on others to learn.

I have begun learning PHP on my own, almost casually 3 months ago. Now I can make my own modules for postnuke and modify others.

If I had to go back to the physical school I would be terrified for one, but more to the point disgusted not by the taint of any arrogance of mine but the egregious conceit in which most professors hold their students.

The problem with many of us genius types is that we do not function well amongst average human social, academic, and even business designs. How many of you can stand to answer the buzzer at a fast food chain for the drive through when a voice to text synth hooked up to a sql database that could pump out information to a PHP frontend for the cook would be a much better way of doing things. I would think about that all day if I had a job like that.

I ramble, sorry my kitten kept me up mewing and I'm tired.

Re:The path to ?

[Anonymous Coward]

"genius type" eh? Teaching yourself php in 3 months is not the sign of a genius. Nor is teaching your self php in a day or an hour.

The point with teachers etc is that they will know of things you haven't considered. Yeah so you are teaching yourself about programming online. Are you sure you've covered everything? How can you know when you are only just learning? What if you need to ask a question? Ask it online and 99% of the time you will get a reply like "fuck off you newbie", "RTFM", "lol" or something else helpful.

Basically you say you are terrified of school so this is clearly affecting your opinion. School isn't just about classes. Clearly you forgot to learn how to stand up for your self and deal with idiots before you left. Its easy to do that online because there is (next to) no threat of physical violence.

Re:The path to ?

[pacman on prozac]

I still can't believe after the rest of your post you used the actual words (and I quote) "us genius types", priceless.

Wake the fuck up.

Re:The path to ?

[AftanGustur]

The problem with many of us genius types is that we do not function well amongst average human social, academic, and even business designs.

I think most if not all "geniuses" in history have had rather low self esteem in addition of being partially depressive. Megaloomania seldom goes hand in hand with "geniousness".

My non-professional guess, from your description would be that you suffer from ADHD which can be treated medically.

Re:The path to ?

[eggstasy]

I think that if you compare just about anyone on slashdot to the drooling masses of TV-watching idiots, "genius" would be a fairly accurate description.
The vast majority of people in this world has no goal in life, no ambition, dont know the difference between a job and a career, are unfamiliar with the concept of self-improvement and the expression "thirst for knowledge". So those of us who would be considered "normal" in an ideal world end up looking like geniuses in comparison.

Re:The path to ?

[OeLeWaPpErKe]

Very nice thing to say. The sad truth is that I have had few classes in high school where I didn't know enough about a subject to lead a teacher on to a wrong conclusion.

My biology teacher had a university degree in physics. That's all nice and well, but I knew a LOT more about any subject that remotely interested me than the teacher.

Same thing for physics. Saying 'you can do it a lot easier this way' is not accepted if you do it every 15 minutes, I can assure you that, and this is VERY unrewarding.

I aced biology, yet the teacher did not read most of my responses, and did not finish my essay on microbiology, so he just looked up 5 things I said, they all turned out to be correct, so he gave me an A. That's a REAL good way to motivate someone "Here you've got an A" "Did you enjoy reading it" "I never read 9/10 of it".

I failed physics. Why ? Because the task of calculating the voltage over a certain connection is not hard if you see that the teacher connected 2 and ports with a not port in between (so yes it was zero, but you were supposed to calculate all the details). I just filled in '0' with the explanation of why I thought it had to be zero, and I was right (moreover I did not make a rounding error like everybody else). This earned my a zero on the question. This is a real motivator know physics.

Teachers have trouble with "smart" pupils. (people who assimilate stuff at 10 times the rate of "normal" people) Respecting and/or helping them will undermine their authority VERY fast. So they crack down on it (and those who don't will get a nervous breakdown in a couple of years, I've seen it happen twice with 2 high school teachers). The sad truth is that 99,9% of teachers is teacher because "it's a living" and has no interest in being good in their subject, just in the money at the end of the month.

Re:The path to ?

[linzeal]

I am quite awake, thank you. Unless something has drasticly changed since I was last tested in High School, I believe the 140 area is considered Genius, no?

As for your jeering, grow up. Looking over your webpage it seems you are the dime-a-dozen slashdot variety geek, who thinks knowing 2 bits about ip-tables or the latest IE exploit qualifies you for praise. It clearly does not, your website is useless in the context of more timely and pertinent information supplied elsewhere. Perhaps it would be in your best interests to try Zoloft or one of the more promising new SSRI's, Pacman on Prozac. Next time before insulting someone, why don't you do your Homework?

Re:The path to ?

[linzeal]

The PHP portion was used as an example. When I mean casually, I mean over a period of few weekends in those 3 months. Not every day by any means, and still I am merely profecient not execeptional, because I have no need beyond what I know currently. I believe learning new syntactical patterns rapidly is a sign of a narrow but enlightenened range of semantic intellectual powers, yes? So what differentiates those who can navigate more effortlessly between the differing semiotic structure between two languages? An average American, for instance who may know from thirty thousand to double that in English words lexically is no different when he confronts the than more rigid lexicon of most scripting and programing languages. By their conceptual layouts they may restrict you in breadth even if through manipulating the position of the functions given in a program you may conjour up endless depth (I know many programming languages that allow one build unique functions). Showing that differing amounts of inate ability lie in the apprehension of new languages is beyond my time here today, you might want to check elsewhere.

The online world's sheer wealth of informative sites, guides, and peoples rivals any university alone. To use it effeciently for the manner of learning is a different matter altogether. It is easily to be disported at the sundry delights of online porn, the action-packed online FPS, or the vacuum that is Slashdot at times. I obviously do not spend my day here, but when I first came unto this website before I registered it was a portal into the world of Linux which has helped me greatly. Now I would consider it a nexus of the raw talent of a goodly portion of the Linux and even Windows sysadmin, programmers and tech support jockies out there. RTFM is a good reply to many people. When you depend so much on others that you cannot use a book or a website to learn virtually anything conceptually without hand holding, how is that going to affect you in the real world after school? Are you going to be the guy who leans on the cubicle wall every 15 minutes asking him how to use this pointer, fix this tech support problem, or the like? Learning how to learn on your own is the most important thing I learned in school, and that was when I was in 6th grade. Going to class for me is more a social call than anything. I learn alone with source material, why won't people respect that?

Re:The path to ?

[linzeal]

I do have ADD, thanks for noticing. My temperment changes throughout the day from the first cup of coffee till about 2 hours after my last I function 'normally' and can accomplish past goals set forth and realize new set tasks that are needed to meet future goals. I can function in society, with requisite charm, offense, or indifference as the situation requires; but, I dislike to immensely. I have isolated myself; I suppose, and almost all the intelligent people I know are online as I live in a small town, so my drunken opinion last night stepped over its bounds. I can castigate myself, I need no help from strangers. There is no word geniousness you are looking for the word cogent, inventive, or ingenious?

I realize you used quotations.

I know who I am, it is very difficult functioning in this manner with my attention span running riot, almost all the time. Going back on Ritallin or Adderall does not sound like so bad a thing, except I have no insurance during the summer, being a student. I blame people of average intelligence for not responding to the sway of my creative outbursts, my proclivity to drum up again and again the situation humanity faces with the advent of new technologies, or the like as their ignorance blinding their acceptance of my opinions and ideas. I do find acceptance online for my ideas; however, and they are well recieved by those whom I have garnered respect from by the persuassion of my insights over time.

Re:The path to ?

[linzeal]

Kirchoff's law? The sum of volatage drops and gains in a circuit equals zero? Thanks for sticking up for me, I was too tired to make a persuassive argument last night with a new kitten that has been keeping me busy, frustrated, and virtually sleepless for these past few days. If only I could communicate with it directly instead of with a spray bottle, heh.

I have begun a manifesto to move accreditation away from the hands of any local institution and put it into the hands of a large peer-reviewed community online. If I can get around to it, I will finish it this summer. I am neck deep in responsibilities to my online coursework.

Here is a portion of it:
Current academic practices in education have become far too pragmatic in their rendering material for the consumption of neophytes. Entire courses are made palpable to the lowest common denominator (both student and teacher) instead of being raised to meet expectations that one should have of future peers in the field of study being lectured. Teachers as a specialized profession forget that unless they stay amidst the warrants, stipulations, and familiar depth and breadth of coursework expected of them that they will challenge the yawning dinosaur of 'feel good' teaching at their peril.

Where semester to semester entire portions of subjects are discounted in light of the teacher's ineptitude in relaying them or the expectations the students come with, we cannot expect mastery; more so mimicry. As things become so pared down to the digestible both teacher and student forget the pertinent needs that are calling in light of ongoing and current trends emerging within the vast network of academia, industry and society. To address one's self to only one of these facets is to risk stewing in tautologies till one can climb to shore on an intellectually isolated isle, all their own where no one will be the wiser to come to or from.

Students must find within themselves the genteel spirit needed to rise up and meet the demands of an age where informatics, memetics, and d-structure have been enshrined in the ivory towers so long that their blinding light of zealotry has faded from them insofar that they may be understood and utilized by all. These subtle tools of prying loose innate structure from the senseless cruft and century-old entanglements that all fields find themselves in today is a welcome relief from the contemptuous practice of textbook scholarship. Parroting platitudes for philosophy, regurgitating formula for the maths, platforming re-used epiphanies for science, and milking out the euphonies of the languages until stark naked the soul is seen so it can be cleft out or crutched unknowingly when it dares speaks out of these bounds.

Etcetera, reply if you want me to past more, I just realized I have almost 10 pages to cut and paste and I have not had my coffee.

Re:The path to ?

[pacman on prozac]

If you are going to claim to be a genius in a public forum then you'll need a little more evidence than learning PHP or you can expect asshats like me to flame you. You also do a great disservice to the education system by describing it in such terms, sure there are quite a few bad teachers around but theres also a lot of good ones who work hard for their students.

The state of my website is not really the issue, I'm not claiming anything and I certainly don't claim its useful to anyone other than me.

Re:The path to ?

[linzeal]

I have had my coffee and am a bit more sanguine and I apologize for denigrating your website, that was rather petty of me.

I should of stated that I am an education minor and from what I see nothing is more common than a fundamental lack of rigor and respect for teachers desiring to teach particular subjects. For instance I know a mathematics major that desires to teach algebra, yet struggles through even the most rudimentary calculus calling it 'useless'. She is the norm, teachers are made up of the lowest common denominator in my exp. and this has been through 3 different college's education programs.

The old adage is true, "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach; and those who can't teach, teach the teachers."

Re:The path to ?

[DerekLyons]

When we look at the life of people such as Tomas Edison for example, who dropped out of school and was then fired from work for being "too clever" (he created a auto-responder to a morse signal that was supposed to verify if he was awake) it becomes obvious that the school system is not suited for educating some of the smartest people that have lived.

The problem is, your thesis is not proved by your exposition. Thomas Edison wasn't in fact very smart, nor did he have many original ideas. What he was however was extraordinarily persistent, thorough, and exacting. The odd fact is, when we look at lives of the folks we consider brilliant, we often find more evidence for those qualities than for sheer raw intelligence.

Re:The path to ?

[pacman on prozac]

The teachers aren't the ones who decide to put kids with special needs in with normal classes so its not really fair to blame them when those situations don't work out.

The teacher you mention is certainly not the norm as far as teachers here go. In the UK such an attitude would prevent her from studying a maths major in the first place and certainly no school is going to hire a maths teacher who can't do calculus. Maybe thats just a culteral difference.

The problem with that old adage is that bad teaching is a vicious circle that we'd never get out of until everyone had become trailer trash. I don't accept that is our future.

re "50%...."

[Otis_INF]

50% of the population's going to be "above average" in intelligence, after all.
That's not true. Most people (90% I believe) are in the 'average' range of intelligence (around the IQ of 100. I'm not implying IQ is the only intelligence test method). A very small group has f.e. an IQ > 130 and has also creative skills.
It's binomial distributed, with N=200

Sticktoitiveness...

[torpor]

The word is "persistence".

Re:Sticktoitiveness...

[sydb]

Nah, persistence is the quality of not ceasing, like a nagging woman.

Re:Sticktoitiveness...

[Anonymous Coward]

I wasn't aware that you knew my wife.

Re:Sticktoitiveness...

[Anonymous Coward]

We all know your wife, in the biblical sense.

Asperberg's?

[richardtallent]

Beyond normal INTP, there is a chance that you (and some other posters here) have undiagnosed Asperger's Syndrome. I didn't know until less than a year ago, and I'm 28 now. Fortunately I've coped well over the years and adjusted for the rough stuff (social cues, facial recognition, pushing myself through college, etc.), but it's still a conscious struggle.

On the good side, though, I enjoy above-average intelligence, a voracious appetite for learning (at least learning about the stuff I'm interested in at the time), and a great memory for numbers and oddball facts (counterbalanced by a terrible memory for nearly everything else).

Not to fear: Asperger's, like its cousins Autism and possible Schizophrenia, it a "continuum" disorder: some people have it bad, others have it just enough for diagnosis but not enough to greatly affect their lives. It's often mis-diagnosed as ADD, ADHD, or just plain smartass.

Google for it and read up. There was an article in Wired recently that made the statistical tie from technies to Aspies, for instance. If you have it bad enough, you may be able to receive some accomodation from your university, but even if not, understanding the potential issues can help you make a conscious effort to work around inside your rewired brain to achieve your goals.

Re:Asperberg's?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't try to make it sound like you're "special" or "gifted". You have "Asperberg's" == you're a fucking retard.

Uniquely bright, eh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, I can't wait to see a Beowulf cluster of these babies!

Dude, no offense...

[StarKruzr]

... but shut up.

There are *MANY* reasons to go to college other than gaining an education in a chosen field. I made friends in college that I will know for the rest of my life, and grew incalculably as a person.

And no, you can't get the same experience working at a company somewhere.

Re:Dude, no offense...

[ultranova]

There are *MANY* reasons to go to college other than gaining an education in a chosen field. I made friends in college that I will know for the rest of my life, and grew incalculably as a person.

Most people grow incalculably in the time period one normally goes to college in. Therefore, you are crediting college for something which it might have nothing to do with.

And telling people who disagree with you to shut up isn't a very grown-up thing to do ;). Or maybe it is, but not very mature. There is a difference...

And no, you can't get the same experience working at a company somewhere.

Another theorem you have no way to actually prove, since you didn't spend the time period working at a company somewhere (and if you did work while you were at college, how do you know which attributed more to your growth ?).

Unless, of course, you have compared a large group of college-goers to non-college-goers (and no, "a few friends" is not a large group) ?

Re:Dude, no offense...

[NateTech]

Ahh, the smell of /. bullshit in the morning.

I work in a highly specialized sub-set of telecommunications because I stumbled into a Field Engineering job in said industry during the time I was running myself out of money in college. I started at a small company doing phone operator work and worked my way into more and more technical roles until I was travelling 50% of the time and working on things like FAA systems and various large industry-owned systems including the oil industry and the banking industry as customers.

I eventually found I couldn't travel for work and keep up with college coursework and dropped out. That was just under a decade ago.

Instead I worked in the field, and got to know the relatively small group of technicians, managers, and people who work in this industry.

I also applied myself and studied my ass off and continue to do so as the technology changes.

I now am not a rich man, but I make a comfortable living.

Not bad for the kid who started out as a part-time telephone operator while going to college.

I'm currently a Sr. Technical Account Specialist for a multi-national telco equipment manufacturer, and have also been a Product Support Engineer in charge of the first deployment of a new product worth about $1/2 million list-price (each), and also have managed a NOC with ten staff members -- back before I learned that I make a pretty horrible manager. (I don't like babysitting and back then I didn't realize how much of that job truly is just that -- babysitting.)

I have friends in all sorts of related jobs in this industry who are great people and have stood beside me during hard times, and these are also people "that I will know for the rest of my life" -- and I didn't meet them in college.

So your narrow-minded thought that only people that can go to college can also build lifetime friendships and grow as people is complete and utter bullshit. Sorry man, not everyone's life goes that way, nor does it have to.

Would I love to finish a degree and possibly continue with other study? Sure. But at my 30-something age I have no desire to do the "frat boy" thing or party -- I just want to get in and out as fast as I can and back to living my life.

A college degree to me at this point would just mean a checkbox on the resume' that I don't have.

And unfortunately instead of just slamming by way through something boring, I'm leaning more towards returning to a "hard science" and working towards an Engineering degree. Probably an EE.

I'm just not sure I can find enough time in one day to do it all...

But at this point of my life, I could care less about the social aspects of college. Will I meet people and probably make friends? Sure... why not. That's what I've been doing in the work world for 15 years.

Open up that mind there big-shot... and realize that not everyone goes to college. And that there are plenty of highly-intelligent people who have a LOT more work experience than you do out there that don't have sheepskins, but can save your sheepskin when you come in as a manager and screw up the business.

Because they've seen it before...

Bravo!

[danielsfca2]

You just said in four paragraphs what I've been trying to say ever since I started college. I have heard, though, from my friends that go to private universities, that despite the heavy cost burden, private schools are better than state schools. Of course, our mileage may vary. But your experience sounds like my wasted two years at a state university.

Re:Bravo!

[AtomicBomb]

In many cases, personal character rather than the environment is what determines the success of a person. I can see whoever reading this forum is the lucky top x% in the world. Social ranking, information and acesss to information etc are much more mobile than most...

I remember there was a slashdot link a while ago about the achievement of those who graduated from the top elite private US colleges and those who have the desire and ability, but cannot due to financial, family or whatever reason many years down the track... The results was quite a surprise... Basically, both group of them are top archievers. Much better than those who don't attempt at all...

Bear in mind, many bright people around the world (even in some smaller and not so advanced developed countries) got stuck in local college which may not be as good as the state university that you mentioned... A lot of them cannot attend universities at all. However, many still strive in the professional that they chosen. It should be a good lesson for many of us to think about.

I got lucky.

[ZorbaTHut]

I always thought I was smart. I was never sure *how* smart. I mean, I found all school absurdly easy. And yet I got bad grades. So was I smart, and just unmotivated? Because I felt motivated, I was just so unbelievably *bored* that I never got around to doing anything.

I sort of dropped out of high school (it was an alternative high school, and I was in an alternative program within the alternative high school - I didn't go to school but wasn't called in for truancy) and played video games and worked on programming. Eventually I realized, hey, I'm not going anywhere. I should go to college.

I pulled together enough of a final year of high school (13th grade - alternative high school, remember?) and managed to get into Oberlin College, which is a pretty good liberal arts school and totally didn't fit me.

Luckily, partway through Oberlin, I found Topcoder. Suddenly I had a way to measure my skills against others, and I had something I could get better at!

As I said, I got lucky - it turned out I actually *was* smart. If you go to the site now, that's me ranked #4 in the world out of thousands (and #1 in America - Snap's Canadian, tomek's Polish, and John's Austrailian. reid is American also, so I should probably start practicing again).

However, I wasn't *that* smart. I failed my first round pretty horribly - but I looked at it, said "I can do better", and did better. I don't believe I know everything - I don't. I'm not even close. I do believe that if I don't know it, I can learn it faster than just about anyone, even if I have to invent it first. That's where my strength is, but it only comes into play if I admit I don't know something.

If you don't believe you can get any better, you never will.

Anyway. I dropped out of college for a variety of reasons (emotional problems and a serious school mismatch) and went to work for a games company, Snowblind Studios (I got the job through Topcoder, note.) I spent a year and a half on Champions of Norrath and then went back to college, at Stony Brook this time. That lasted about six months - I was an order of magnitude more bored than I was at Oberlin, I'd learned so much at Snowblind - and so I decided I was done with college. About a year before that I'd done very well in the Google Code Jam, being #1 globally before the final round (don't ask how I did in the final round), and Google said they were interested in hiring me. While I was at Stony Brook we worked out the details and, long story short, I've got a job at Google as soon as I get an apartment in the Bay Area. I'm starting in about a month.

I plan to save my money, quit in a few years, and start a game studio. We'll see how well that works.

As I said though, I got lucky. Not everyone can expect to be ranked #1 in the US - there's maybe half a dozen people who battle it out for that spot on Topcoder, with reid and I being the most consistent winners. And I wasn't expecting to get that high - when I started, I was thinking "wow, if I'm lucky, I could even be in the top hundred!"

Kinda ironic, honestly.

But here's the thing. I don't do well because I'm smart. I *am* smart, no argument, but it's not everything. I do well because I decided I wanted to win, and I asked questions about things I didn't understand, I devoured textbooks to learn the things I couldn't ask about, and every time I screwed up I went over it dozens of times trying to figure out how I could do better next time. That score you see there isn't just the result of good genetics - it's also the result of a hell of a lot of hard work and brainsweat.

So I guess that's the best advice I can give. Okay. So you're a genius. Great, you've got an advantage. Now get out there and make it work for you. Maybe that won't be going through college - if you don't, you're going to have

Few advices

[Anonymous Coward]

Few things to remember when getting higher education.

• It does not require intelligence, brightness or creativity.
• In fact, in many exams, exercises etc. being too clever might only cause harm. Only at graduate level you might be able disagree with some teachings that are generally thought to be true.
• People with PhD:s aren't generally intelligent, bright nor creative. That's doesn't mean they cannot be. It just isn't required for them.
• Getting good grades means hard work, learning things by heart and writing memorized things down at exam with trivial creativity added.
• If you think you are somehow more special or bright when compared to others, you probably aren't. And even when you are, (think Einstein) it doesn't matter because everybody treat you as you aren't.
• By learning/working very hard with some areas you might gain insights and understanding about some specific areas so that you are better than anyone else in that area but this usually requires very hard work and when speaking about research you must remeber that this match is 'whole world vs. you' so it essentially means putting all your time and efforts to it.
• All the above doesn't mean that you cannot get good new ideas although it's unlikely. By making large enough group of bright, creative and intelligent people to learn the subject some might get really new ideas. However, most of the people usually just want good grades and don't want to question anything or think differently.

Still have to learn how to work with ADD

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have ADD or ADHD, you'll have to learn to work with it eventually (literally and figuratively). The original poster's problems aren't incompatible with ADD: I can focus on some things very well, but I couldn't study for more than 1/2 hour at a time to save my grades. Unluckily I didn't get my diagnosis until after college (90%+ percentiles on the SATs and GREs. Barely got a B- average). Luckily I got my diagnosis before I fell too far behind in my first post-college job.

College can actually be a good training ground for dealing with ADD-- at least in college you might have several different projects / classes to work on in a day. Once you're out in the working world, you might have to go for days (or weeks) just working on one project. That can be hard enough without ADD: with ADD it can be just about impossible, unless you know how to minimize the ADD.

Three words...

[kylea]

Don't get cocky. If you're bright and think you know it, it can lead to an inflated ego. Don't let it happen.

Re:Go to a college that won't just rubber-stamp yo

[dubl-u]

you don't have to take stupid, boring, and irrelevant to your interests classes

I'm sure there must be people whose interests at 18 are perfectly tuned to match what they'll need to know over the next 30-50 years. But I don't think I've ever met one.

When I was just starting college, I didn't take much in the way of advice, so I'm not sure it will do any good to offer it. But just in case, here's my take:

I would have been better off in college had I done the exact opposite of my instincts on a regular basis. Instead of following my muse all the time, I would have come out better had I picked one thing and stuck with it, come hell or high water. But because I could get away with hop-scotching across the departments, I reinforced the same bad habits that I had developed in high school, the same bad habits that many bright kids develop. And I avoided learning a lot of things that would have served me well later.

One tip I can offer is that you should work assiduously at knowing and challenging yourself. Through careful observation and experimentation, learn exactly why and how some things are hard for you, and some easy. Then constantly push those limits. Focus especially on cutting through your own bullshit; smart people are often incredibly good at fooling themselves.

The other is to do nothing half-assedly. Before you commit to college, figure out exactly what it will take for you personally to come through it with flying colors. Then when you commit, really commit. Or if you aren't sure you can do it, then find some easier stepping stone (like a 1-year program, an apprenticeship, or even a single college class) and learn how to play and win that game before proceeding to the big leagues.

Another way to develop the character necessary to tackle college is to try getting by without it. As soon as you're done with high school, get a job and move out of your mom's house. You will soon discover that what matters is not your raw talent, but what you manage to accomplish with it.

None of this should dissuade anybody from nurturing their muse; their are more important things in life than churning out widgets. But I know a lot of bright people who did fuck-all with their talents, doing nothing but dreaming their lives away.

learn coping skills

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, some free advice for someone who felt the same way and who, incidentally, also rates as an INTP if you ask Myers-Briggs:

While you have some superior abilities in some areas, you are different than other people and this is going to be in many, very significant ways, a disadvantage. You will probably find that you have the ability to think in ways and understand things that others don't get, and the natural supposition might be that the world will recognize your unique abilities (which DO exist) and reward you.

This IS NOT, however, the way the world works! For the most part, at least in the academic and business world, the world sifts through people and picks those who in whom it can find a way to use to its advantage. And it looks for types of people it knows and understands; anything else is too much work for not enough benefit. Unknowns could have a bigger payoff potentially, but they also probably require extra work and personal attention and could backfire. That makes it a risk, and people don't want risk; they want something they know and understand. Here, I am talking about whatever special abilities you have that are genuine but also unusual. (Business people form a plan and then go out and look for people that can fit into their plan. 99% of the time, the most important thing they want is someone that will make their little piece of the plan succeed, not someone who is bright or innovative.)

The net result is, if you want to be successful and move through life (and that includes school) getting the basic stuff you want to get out of it, you are going to have to learn to cope with not being normal by knowing how to act normal. This doesn't mean you need to sublimate your unique personality and never express yourself, but you do need to know how to relate to normal people, do things normal people expect, etc. You may never click with them and they may never really "get" you, but if you can learn to do what they expect in basically the way they expect it, then you can do useful things like setting up mutually beneficial relationships where you do a set of prescribed tasks (and get them DONE) and they pay you for it, i.e. having a job. Or where you do a set of prescribed tasks and they give you a good grade for it.

The reason I say all this is that I was much like you about 15 years ago (I'm basically 33 now), and what I found is that mere intelligence -- even if it were truly exceptional intelligence -- is not rewarded. As a result, it wasn't until I was 31 years old that I finally finished my college degree, and I took a nearly 10-year career sidetrack as well. I have learned a lot in the process, but if I'd been able to see the big picture and just approach things from a more conventional point of view purely for the sake of being compatible with the "API" of society, I would've struggled less and I'd be doing a lot better in my career than I am now. Not that I'm doing badly, but the delay in finishing college meant I finished at my own expense, which meant I used savings I could've used for buying a nice car (we're talking Beemer here) or as a down payment on a nice house.

To sum it up, you're gifted in some areas. But you will find that there are other areas that you need to be good in that will help you succeed overall in life, and these things may not come as easily to you as the things you're really good at. Don't ignore them! Identify those areas and find ways to improve your skills. This includes social interaction, managing your career, mental health, doing the boring grunt work necessary to finish school, maybe exercise and physical fitness, etc., etc., etc.

not as smart as you think

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel I could describe the exact same symptoms as you, as probably could a miilion people around the world. The difference is that I realised the traditional way to get on was to get the paper that said you were intelligent (exam certificates). That meant sticking in at school, whether I liked it or not and now I'm at one of the finest higher education institutions in the world, Oxford University, England.

Sure, as soon as I finish I could give it all up and open my own company, which i could have done 4 years previous without any qualifications, but I also have an amazing CV to back it up.

Get real, if you never go to University and attain a degree you can never prove you are intelligent. It also shows you can stick things out, whether you have an interest or not.

I have spent University constantly joining different societies and clubs, the course may drag on but social life needn't do.

Safe

respect for education

[kardar]

I don't know where people get this concept that the only reason to go to college is to prove to an employer that you are willing to do things that are meaningless and pointless - I have heard this before, usually coming from people who aren't all that particularly successful or satisfied in life.

It's simply not true - perhaps that's the difference between an Ivy league education an one gotten at the local community college.

There are so many things to learn in college, and college does, in fact, have a purpose, although feeling like you need to go to one just so that you don't have to work a horrible job sort of tends to obscure that purpose. I suppose there are many people that graduate with a BS without even having fully grown up yet, still in the daze of youth, so in that case, I suppose you are just lucky.

My point is that we don't respect college enough in our society. We tend to do that with lots of things. Our leaders do the same things with the White House and Congress. A car is no longer a way to get around, it's a fashion statement. A lawsuit is no longer a way to redress injustice, it's a means to force someone to pay up (RIAA).

Ok, lawsuits aren't as important as education, but that's the point - college is so much more than just a way to not be poor; it is so much more than a way to get a job. If you miss that, then you are missing the whole point of what college is all about.

I believe that education, when tapped into properly, can make a huge difference in an individual's life, and by extension, that individual can take what he or she has learned and help change other people's lives. It has nothing to do with money, it has to do with freeing your mind. Free your mind, and your torso will follow. It's true.

So the important thing is to really "get in to" what college is all about, and to not use it as a weapon against other people who are not so fortunate as yourself. There is absolutely nothing wrong with working a menial job; and perhaps if you think there is, maybe one day you will be the one working it. If your self respect comes from the job you hold, then you have no self respect. If you live your life in fear, you haven't obviously tapped into the power of education, and everything education can do for you.

It's FUD - basic, simple, straighforward FUD. I would never suggest to anyone that they go to college simply for the purpose of getting a better job, or to prove to their employer that they can do things that they don't like. It's not BS, actually - it's just crappy teachers and bored students, if it's anything.

I would say that English, actually, English is probably simultaneously one of the most dreaded required courses (freshman comp) and one of the most important pathways to success. If you have good English skills, you are on your way to wherever you want to go. It's really unfortunate, because "english" gets a "bad rap", and it gets totally misunderstood. So that's the biggest challenge, I think, these days - to really get into and appreciate English, the study of language. I think the peer pressure, the college experience tends to do a disservice to the respect of English, and the improvements you can bring to your life by being able to put down your thoughts. I cannot stress this enough.

To say that the primary purpose of college is to prove to your employer that you can sit through a bunch of BS is completely off the mark, because 1) it's not BS and 2) it won't get you a very good job, and 3) if you think it's BS that's because you weren't paying attention.

I think this type of attitude is one of the biggest problems our society faces these days - our computer software crashes 5 times a day but we use it anyway, and pay thousands of dollars to do so - college is all BS, but we go anyway, and accrue tens of thousands of dollars in debts to do so.

See, my dear friend, THIS is the difference - THIS is the difference between your ilk and the Ivy League, my dear, dear friend. THIS is what you DON'T get when you hire an Ivy League graduate.

Put that in your book and read it.

Re:respect for education

[UserChrisCanter4]

You replied to a post by an English major. I do respect education, and if life was happy and friendly, there'd still be a good place and a healthy amount of respect for the "renaissance man" liberal arts education gained at universities other than Ivy League. But every degree does have some bullshit classes, and you're going to learn things that have no practical application to you ever. If you enjoy learning for the pure fact of learning, then that's okay with you; I occasionally get to explain why I, as an English major, have Calculus, proper Biology, and CS on my transcript when "easier" classes would've sufficed, and the answer is that I halfway wanted to learn those subjects and halfway wanted to prove that I could.

You're right, college is more than a way to get a good job and not be poor. I can harp on that subject all day long, tell this kid how he'll come to appreciate the different people he meets, the different viewpoints he's exposed to, the time management skills he picks up, and maybe even that random mandatory class he thought he was going to hate. He'll pick that up along the way. In the meantime, when he gets his first failing grade on a midterm, or when he starts to realize that he is not the only "bright" person out there, he can fall back on the "I just have to trudge through this", because college isn't all happy fun jollies from learning.

About this Ivy League that loves nothing more than education, though... is that the same one where Harvard has come under criticism because almost 90% of their students graduate with some form of honors? I know, I can't see how it's mathematically possible, either. And Harvard isn't the only one in the Ivy League, they're simply being the most flagrant about it. Like most things in life, even presitigious Universities understand that your education isn't a black and white issue of "learning for learning's sake vs. securing a job." It's nice to be in a position where you can spend ~$120,000 on an education, but not everyone has that luxury. Having met plenty an Ivy League graduate, I would completely disagree with your statement; most of them are people who see education not as a thing to strive for or as a means to and end, but rather as a mixture of the two (albeit with a heavier emphasis on "means to an end"). They were simply lucky enough to be in the position where they could invest that much more in their "job acquisition fund".

Oh, and congratulations on managing to simultaneously sound like a complete elitist ass and reinforce every negative steretype about Ivy League-ers. You're the reason that my best friend is always hesitant to tell people he went to Yale.

Honest advice... no slam

[Anonymous Coward]

The first post had it right, get over yourself. You sound like the voice I spoke to myself with entering college. Don't go, you'll end up unhappy. I dropped out after a year, got depressed because I fell so far short of my goals. Avoid the depression by coming to grips with how much you can do without the degree. I'm happy now, not because I work at Home Depot, but because of the things I do with my free time.

enjoy your fortune

[linuxscum]

sounds to me like you are already on the path that you want/need to be on. as cliche as it sounds, follow your heart and you'll be fine. i can relate very strongly to every single word you say ... i've found myself to be a very intuitive thinker which does not make for easilly quantifiable (and hence, testable) skills but it does make for a feeling caring person who enjoys and is capable of doing a broad range of things. i've been frequently refered to as intense and i wear such comments as a badge of honour, since i have learned to use it while still keeping myself and those around me at ease. your intensity will give you a degree of rigor which, in combination with a strong and healthy intuition, makes for a great deal of potential ... but potential that is difficult to harness in any one direction. maybe you'll find that direction for yourself, maybe you won't. just don't hang your self esteme on living-up to others' expectations of you (or your perception of those expectations) and it won't matter. people will see your potential and it can make for unfair expectations and you will want to achieve them lest you feel like you are somehow falling short. don't buy into that crap. odds are that you will learn truely fantastic things and become capable of wrapping your head around facts, phenomena and questions which few people will be able to comprehend. this drives a huge number of intellegent people into ridiculous egomaniacal head trips from which they never return. don't let it happen to you. it is a very real danger. it's a great security blanket for a lot of people but ultimately it makes you weaker and gross. that said, this should not be confused with the cultivation of confidence, which is absolutely key. nobody listens to a word from a meek, hesitant and wavering person, no matter how good their ideas. find a way to speak with confidence witout being an egomaniacal asshole. when you don't know, don't try to bullshit your way to an answer. instead, say you don't know when you don't and people will be more likely to listen to you when when you do. i'm finishing up a PhD right now in astronomy and i'm glad i did it but i'm glad i'm getting out of academia. there's a great many things in this world which are hard to learn any other way than through a strict program such as that, but the law of diminishing returns has kicked in for me and i've found myself seeing less-and-less in it for me as time moves on. i have a growing and unsatisfying sensation of knowing more and more about less and less. time to move on to something new. something that builds in some cool way on what i have learned and the skills i have cultivated. i love the pursuit more than ever, but the academic framework, as valuable as it is, has lost it's shine to me. i intend to continue my work but i'm going to find a means of supporting it from outside of that system. like you, i've always loved learning but hated school. that dislike has ebbed and flowed but never gone away. now that i'm done with school, i feel an enormous feeling of liberation. again, i'm glad i did it but i'm glad i'm done with it. i'll indulge myself just a bit farther and offer this one piece of advice that i wish had been laid on me a long while ago. maybe it will be of use to you or maybe not. it realy is quite true ... one man in this world truely is nothing, in the sence of getting anything done and making anything interesting and rewarding happen, that is. there are exceptions of course, and maybe you are one of them, but most of us need communities of people to make anything happen *and to keep us happy*. find a community of people that support your diverse interests and keep you inspired. look for similarly diverse people and don't depend too much on people who are narrowly focused on just a couple of things. that will be tough to do with such a broad interest base! there is a fantasticly huge number of close minded, introverted, and miserable people with horrible social skills in

my two cents

[Anonymous Coward]

I read a few of the replies, and then I gave up because there were like... what 700 of them. So I apologize if what I am about to say is repetitive. The last time I read a slashdot article about college, the comments were a flamewar between people who went to college, and those who didn't but still landed a job in industry. It was hard to tell if it was the college kids being snobby or the non-college kids being bitter. Anyway...

I think I was a lot like you when I graduated from high school. Considered myself to be 'bright,' and capable of doing things well if I put my mind to it. Then I went to college, and it was a humbling experience. What I've learned is that there are millions of other people just as smart, if not smarter than I am, and being a college student is no definite indicator of intelligence (now doesn't that suck? isn't the point of college+getting a degree proving to someone that you're competent?). Its hard work that pays off in the end. Remember that. No matter what you choose to do with your life, its a good work ethic that will make you succeed.

Oh, and do what you like. If you don't like school, get out. If you want to stay in school, learn to like it.

Thats all from me. Goodluck with school and whatnot.

This is standard giftedeness.

[mburns]

Let no one tell you that your story is pathological. I am glad that no one seems to have tried in any serious way.

Check out the SENG www site and my Slashdot journal for information on giftedeness.

Glass Half Full?

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was a kid, I thought I was smart...

As time passed I realized that it wasn't that I was particularly bright, it was that the majority of the population is so frigging stupid.

Does it make a difference which way you view it? I'm not sure.

Seconded.

[Gordonjcp]

I wish to fuck someone had said that to me when I was a spotty 17-year-old heading off to University.

In the end you need a plan

[Anonymous Coward]

After reading your parent post I had the same, "That's just like I felt at that age" feeling that many /.'ers have posted.

I was considered bright at school top of the school in GCSE's (the UK 16 year old exams), most academic awards given to one student at the school, etc, etc, etc. I had meetings with two teachers every month to make sure I did not burn out. I was even helping teachers out with lesson plans (there are a biology and a physics lesson that I wrote that the school are still using to teach year 10's with).

I have always imtimidated people I converse with and consequently have very few friends. This does not matter to me as most people are full of crap anyway. However, there will be a few people you meet (and you will probably meet these people at University) that you will value the opinion of. These people will become your life long friends. By friends I don't mean people you meet down the pub, I mean people who help you move house, people who will tell you your current girlfriend is the best/worse thing in your life, people who tell you what you need to hear even if they know you may not talk to them for a whole year afterwards (because it sometimes takes you that long to work out they were right). University is worth attending just to meet these people besides any other side benifit.

I have had 3 jobs since finishing University but keep in touch with no-one I have worked with. Suffice to say work is not where you will probably make any friends at all.

Here's the rub - this is how your life is going to be too. You are going to have very few friends and most people you talk too will be jerks. Almost all of your working life you are going to think what you are doing is a steaming pile of crap. If you go down the Degree, IT job, Team Leader/Sys-admin path you will get to about 25 and realise your life really, really, really means bugger all to anyone. 25 is the water shed that you realise if you don't move on and do something you feel passionate about you will be stuck doing crap for the rest of your life.

Now, here's the blue pill...

What do you want people to remember about you when you die. Seriously, what is the way you want to be remembered?

Answer that question (for example, say you want to invent a flying car) and then take a look at where you are now (for example, just about to start University).

Connect the dots and that's your "plan". Stick to it but be flexable when the situation demands it.

Why do all this? What's the point? Because what we have left behind us when we are gone is all we ever were. So make the world a better place and do something you believe in. Because when it's 5.30 am on a Monday morning and your alarm goes off you need to be happy to get out of bed and go to work. If not, you will just end up as jaded and stupid as every one else.

Good luck.

T

P.S. Seriously, go invent my flying car!!

In simple logic, "not necessarily true" == "false"

[BitwizeGHC]

A statement can be either true or false. If it's true, it's true all the time. Otherwise, it's false.

There are more complex and nuanced logics which enable you to say "not necessarily true" or "possibly true", but in the land of PL and FOL, statements come in only those two colors.

Don't go to college immediately

[mrright]

I think you should do something different than just entering college. Like volunteering with the Geek Corps or joining the army for a year or whatever.

I am not a religious person, but I found that religious people that went on a mission for a year or two came back completely changed for the better. So you should do something similar.

The point about college is not so much that it requires extreme intelligence. They make you do all kinds of stupid shit, and if what you said is true the most important thing you will need is discipline.

I learned this the hard way. I am also very intelligent, yet I dropped out of college before finishing my master in physics because I just could not stand it anymore after 15 continuous years of school.

If I had done something different before entering college it would be something completely different. One year of real life experience is worth more than 10 years of school, IMHO. After 15 years of school/high school/college, I was a lonely, constantly depressed alcoholic.

Now after a few years of real life I got a very beautiful girlfriend, a well-paying and interesting job, and my life is really good. I wish I had finished college, but with the self confidence I gained it should not be such a big problem should I decide to try it again.

Fuck a lot

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like to add: fuck a lot, while you're still young and in some kind of shape. It doesn't hurt to stay in shape, either.

There's nothing but head injury, cancer, stimulant use or the psychosis of religion that can keep you getting more functionally intelligent by the hour, but time'll also get you out of shape in a snap if you don't pay attention.

It's a pain to get back up, after that has happened.

Re:Fuck a lot

[SparafucileMan]

Hahah yeah. If there's any point, it's gotta be either God or Sex, though some say they're the same thing...

Certifications

[meportez]

I am also definitely an INTP.

I have finished high school, but have not yet applied to college. I am currently working as a computer service technician, and for the most part, I am completely content with my job. Since I do not at the moment care to share my life/time with a significant other, I am financially fine and secure.

Right now I am studying for a number of certifications, including Cisco's CCNA and eventually CCSP, so I can go into the network security field.

There are tons of IT certifications available not only for the networking field, but also even for programming and system administration. My current plan is to get as far as possible on certifications alone. I have pondered getting an associate's degree from a technical school, since that would look better on a resume than no degree at all, and I wouldn't have to take general education classes. Plus, technical schools are generally cheap.

If you have to tell people you're smart

[KalvinB]

you most likely aren't.

Ben

a suggestion ... from experience

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the same way when I hopped out of high school. I went to college because that's what I thought I was suppose to do. Looking back, there's no way I would have missed out on it, even if I did end up dropping out after the first year and a half. It's the first thing I ever failed at.

I was going to spend a bunch of time typing out my experiences, but you don't want to hear that. The things I've learned since then...

In my arrogance I assumed that WHAT I did was more important than HOW it was perceived and by whom. That old addage about walking a mile in another man's boots is true. Common example: management. They exist for a reason. Understand where they're coming from. Most people will ignore that advice, but it's true nonetheless.

Know when you're reaching burnout. You lose interest in a subject at a certain point. If you can predict it, you can plan for it. Then turn it over to someone else. A half-completed project is worth less than nothing. Discipline is great, but most people lose effectiveness after 45 hours of work.

Everything else I was about to say is contained in the book "The 7 habits of highly effective people". Read it and have someone on hand to provide real-world examples that you can relate to 'cause it's kind of dry.

Other than that I'll just reiterate: Understanding people will get you farther than anything else.

Ok. I'm done preaching.

You havn't browsed at -1

[KalvinB]

"Slashdot really doesn't have much for people who are not [smart]."

Slashdot is a community. Claiming it's not for people who aren't smart is exactly the elitist attitude that breeds people who post dribble like this "story." This story should have been rejected out right.

Do you have the IQ results for the millions of people who read Slashdot? Didn't think so.

Basically people who want to believe they're smart come here and think that since they're "part of the community" they must be smart. Because as you say "it's not for non smart people."

"I program a computer, I must be smart." "I read Slashdot, I must be smart." "I use Linux, I must be smart."

All unsound arguments. But arguments believed to be sound by lots of people who want to believe they're smart. They're not the best looking, they're not jocks, if they don't have brains they've "got nothing." Or so they believe.

The truth is that there are a lot of average people who browse Slashdot because they want to learn about things. It's not like only "smart" people care about what's going on with the gaming world or what new gadgets are coming out.

Ben

Re:You havn't browsed at -1

[AC5398]

*The truth is that there are a lot of average people who browse Slashdot because they want to learn about things.*

BINGO!

illumination unlimited

[Anonymous Coward]

consult with/trust in yOUR creators..... good advise since/until forever.

tell 'em robbIE?

Get over

[RealSiraris]

Yeah I agree, get over yourself. I thought the same thing, and it's totally not true. I am very bright, I know I am, I thought I was the same as you. Stop thinking you are all that and start thinking you're a normal person. If you think you can do anything, you will not try and trying is the most important thing in life. I spent so many years not studying not doing anything and my brain went to waste because I thought I was so smart. Just be normal in this sense, work your ass off and stop thinking you're better then anyone else.

all very well being bright but..

[fraccy]

Watch out for both traditional and non-traditional collegiate women, they can play havoc with your concentration :)

Avoid the children

[Anonymous Coward]

College is too sadly an extension of HS and as one poster said - a machine. Consider taking as many of your classes on the weekends, evenings, or overseas. The weekend and evening classes will have older students - while this doesn't necessarily mean smarter, it does mean more experienced and you will find the professors teach and act differently. Usually more engaging and less condescending. Also, the students are typically paying their own way and sacrificing more to attend so are more interested in really learning. Overseas - well, you just can not beat that experience and the perspective is great. Try taking a history class in the US then a similar course anywhere else. And uh, yea - get over your self.

your mama's smart too

[carlback]

that's right i'm talking about your mama i swear to everything that's holy, i hope this your post is a joke.

your not smart your not special and nobody cares

2 pieces of advice ..... maybe 3 or 4
1. learn to earn a shi*load of money
2. learn to dodge taxes.

past that get over yourself you'll get more ladies/men and everybody that deals with you will appreciate you more.

unless of course your me cause i kick ass and deal with it well without having to ask

Some advice from someone not much older...

[DavidD_CA]

There seems to be a lot of people putting their commentary down, but few people actually setting that aside to answer your questions.

I'll tell you a few things that I've found helpful to myself, and why, and let you choose what works best for you. After all, everyone is different.

Someone else here mentioned the book "How to win friends and influence people". I'd like to suggest going one further and actually taking the 12-week Dale Carnegie class that uses that book. It's once a week, 3 hours, 12 weeks total, and will bring you out of your introvert shell like nothing else will. I needed it, I went, and boy did it really change my life. Not to mention you'll make 10-15 friends from the class that you'll really bond with.

Second, I suggest you look into your local city's Leadership program. Typically, the Leadership program is a one-year course where you sign up and become part of a group that meets once monthly. You are given all sorts of really facinating information about where you live, taken on tours, meet people, etc. You'll learn about the economics of the city, politics, agriculture, police/fire, education, industry, whatever. You will also typically put together some kind of philanthropic project to help your city. And, you'll meet tons of really important people who can help you out.

Third, I recommend you get the stupid piece of paper called a degree. I put this off for 8 years and finally decided to do it. I'm taking online classes at University of Phoenix which allow me to go at my own pace, at home or wherever I have an Internet connection. It's far better for me than a stuffy school. Why get a degree? Because most people won't hire you for any decent job today without one. The online classes only suck up about an hour a day of my time -- far less than a real college, same benefit.

I think it's great that you have so many interests. I recommend persuing them all to some degree. You love to learn and should make the most of it.

If you're financially secure, don't try to get a full-time job just yet. Build yourself a checklist of all the things you want to accomplish in education and take care of that foundation first. Then persue your career -- after you know what you want to do.

You should also consider taking at least a class each on business management and marketing. Most techie guys have no clue when it comes to either of these -- and if you are to be successful (for yourself or to a future employer) -- the information you'll get from even a beginning course will be invaluable to you.

And, once you start earning an income, buy a house as fast as you can. This is about the most important financial advice anyone can give. I'll stop there 'cause it didn't sound like you were asking for this, but it's so important it had to be said.

Someone else on here said that you can't change the world. Ignore them. They're just bitter that they tried and failed. Our history books and newspapers are full of people who have changed the world. I'm sure they were told the same thing.

Combine Science and Spirituality

[Anonymous Coward]

Because there are not many yet that are able to do this. The science part is relatively easy (you found your way here). Spirituality is even easier if it's not confused with religion, culture and disempowerment. A few starting pointers: Kryon, Kirael, Tobias, CwG, ...

YO MAMA

[Anonymous Coward]

"I would like to hear from fellow /.ers that consider themselves unusually but non-traditionally 'bright' and how you have dealt with it."

STFU. This is so fucking typical of Slashdot. So what, you're so fucking clever?!?! There are others too!!! Ooooh I use Linux, I'm a geek, I must be so damn smart.

GO SHOVE IT!!!

Just a tool

[Trailwalker]

Intellegence is a tool. As with other tools, proper honing, practice and skill in use determine success or failure in a given enviornment.

Widsom sometimes lies in knowing that the "bigger hammer" is not always the best tool.

My advice

[3,4-methylenedioxyme]

Here is some advice for people in their late teens which have already figured it all out:

Not-knowing is true knowledge.
Presuming to know is a disease.
First realize that you are sick.
Then you can move toward health

- Lao Tzu

INTP?

[edinho]

Pronounced INePT?

College, Travel, Work, Learn, Take Risks

[Bapu]

A few suggestions for the orginal poster:

Go to College, but consider a non-traditional program such as a Work College or a Great Books Program. There are numerous small schools with alternative programs scattered around the US. Find one that seems to fit you.

Travel abroad either as part of College or before/break in the middle/right after. Rough it. Experiencing different cultures the hard way disrupts your rituals and forces you to deal with people, places, things that you normally would avoid.

Get a job. If you are still in high school and bored, get a job now, tomorrow. If you are going to college, try to work part time if you can. Try to find a job that relates to your hobbies or that you enjoy, but any job where you work hard and must deal with people and take direction from superiors will do. Save the money your earn, unless you need it for education.

Keep learning all the time. College, Travel, Work will provide many learning experiences, but you need to learn faster than that. Read as much as you can, across a broad range of topics. Read fiction and non-fiction, Biography, History, Religion, Politics, Science, whatever interests you.

Lastly, take risks in your choices about how to proceed in life. Don't avoid doing something because you are afraid to fail, and don't let anxiety keep you from something that you know is what you really want. If you are given the choice between continuing with a comfortable life and going off on a new, frightening, but potentially rewarding path. Take the new path. Disrupt your mental routine and you will advance. Become the routine and you will stay the same forever.

My Life

[pixelcort]

In 4th grade I got my first computer and 'net connection. Lot's of time spent just surfing the net for information regarding software technology.

In 7th grade I went home school so I could spend more time online. I taught myself the education using the books the charter school provided me. Alas, I didn't match their time-based system. I just wanted to take the tests, they said I had to do the homework. What a waste of time.

In high school the same charter school did an online school program. It used a proprietary software program called NovaNET. It worked in Classic mode only and the developers disappeared from the face of the earth. The company that owned it was too large to actually be able to speak with someone without them having a script in their hands to read to me.

In my Sophomore year I got expelled for not doing any work for the entire high school program. I'd rather use the web to learn than have to deal with the public educational system. It's a good thing I took and passed the California High School Proficiancy Examination. I now had a high school diploma equivalency. (Strange thing, I got it the same day I got expelled by coincidence.)

While I didn't graduate, I did get out of high school at 16. I felt relieved that the State of California was finally off me so I could continue my research. I took the summer and fall off.

I scored in the 99.9% percentile in all those standardized bubbly tests, so I got a scholarship. I also recieved the President's Award for Education. Cool, a fake sig. from Mr. W.

My parents are barely able to support our family, so we do crazy stuff like move every six months. Hey, as long as I got my broadband connection and my laptop, I'm good.

With my uncle having a nice collage fund for me, as well as the state scholarship, I was set. I got into community college. Unfortunately, my parents kept borrowing money and somehow justifying it, so I lost most of my allocated money to them. (Don't worry, there's plenty left, but next time I allocate, I'm going to lock it up with rules.)

College sucked. I had to take public transportation for two hours every morning to reach my class that was 45 minutes. I'd then turn around and wait all day to go home.

I had to deal with a cable company with a catch-22 whether or not internet was available in my house. Once again, the larger the company, the less useful they are. I ended up getting dialup and moving to a night-schedule, waiting for the day my cable modem starts working again.

My parents want me to get a job to help out. They really want me to get a car. I live in farm-world, but I really want to live in the city with a better public transit system.

Now I spend my nights on /. and OSNews, and silently creating essays and rants on my website, PixelCort.com. I am a lead columnist at a growing Mac News Site and a committee member at a large Mac User Group. I am also a design and technology consultant for many individuals and businesses.

What do I do? I try to break concepts down into their elements, then generalize concepts into their classifications, and then find patterns and similarities on all these planes.

I use the power of the internet to expand my horizons. I play Golf and sing. I fight for the rights of minors.

Last year I got kicked out of the WWDC because of my age. Next year I'll be 18 so that won't be a problem. I really wanted to be emancipated, but my parent's won't go for it.

I am always told that I spend to much time working and never spend anytime having fun. I consider work fun, and have formed a very close similarity between the two concepts.

For some time I was a protégé for the county office of education, but they were more focused on engineering and robotics, where I'm more into design and psychology of technology.

Save a buck or two

[crashfrog]

Don't go to an expensive college. If you're anything like me, and you sound like you are, you probably managed to slack your way through high school, learning much, much more outside the classroom in the process.

Unfortunately you probably never developed much in the way of academic discipline, so you're going to succeed in every college arena except for grades.

There's a very strong possibility you won't graduate this first time around - I didn't. But I went to a private school and racked up a shitload in loans.

Don't be like me. This is going to be a great experience for you, and you'll love the college environment, but when you look back, everything you learned will probably have been outside the classroom. That's not a bad thing, but you're wasting tuition if you don't get a degree. And you probably won't, this time.

So, if this is going to be throwaway college for you, don't blow the money on private school. Get into a cheap university, and by all means, live in the dorms. The best part of college for you is going to be outside the classroom; as a result, little you do in the classroom is going to matter this time. Save your money for the school you get into after you drop out of this one.

Myers-Briggs BS

[crashfrog]

These things are horseshit. Seriously. Does anyone else think these things read like a Chinese Horoscope?

Honestly you can match people's personalities just about as well using the Dungeons and Dragons alignment system.

Re:Myers-Briggs BS

[daviddennis]

It's pretty good at predicting people's behaviour and characteristics. It's not good at developing a total description of a person, because there are a lot of factors it doesn't test for.

I find that if I stick to analysis based on the characteristics, I do pretty well. For instance, once I know my artist friend is an INFJ, I know she would have a hard time criticising me and I have to be particularly sensitive when she does. And this is in fact true. Likewise, from the same personality profiles, I know that sometimes she needs to go away and hide when she gets too stressed. So when she has, I haven't felt nearly as bad or uncomfortable as I would otherwise.

These characteristics are as the MBTI predicts, so I think the MBTI is a pretty good predictive instrument. It also works well for other people I know.

Just realize that it makes no judgement over whether someone is good or bad, honest or dishonest. But it definitely helps me understand others, and on that level I have to defend it.

D

Re:Myers-Briggs BS

[crashfrog]

But it definitely helps me understand others, and on that level I have to defend it.

Well, if it works for you, I'm glad, but does it really tell you anything that you wouldn't find out just by getting to know the person?

I'd have to be on pretty good terms with somebody to sit down and take the MBTI for them. At that point, what are they going to find out about me that they don't already know through friendship?

For instance, once I know my artist friend is an INFJ, I know she would have a hard time criticising me and I have to be particularly sensitive when she does.

Sure, but is that really something that you wouldn't have learned through anything but a 2-hour personality inventory?

Re:Myers-Briggs BS

[daviddennis]

You don't need to do a two hour personality inventory, and of course I have not. I simply learn where she is on the various scales by watching her and asking questions, and then from that information I apply the ideas behind the Meyers-Briggs to figure out more things that might not be so obvious.

D

are you a skimmer or a diver??

[Anonymous Coward]

its probably too late for this post to be modded anything other than 0, and since I am too lazy to use a real account... oh well, here goes::

some people are divers
some are skimmers

some skimmers are really unhappy divers, and vice versa. in this case there may be other conflicts, e.g. you have some kind of complex which prevents you from getting through the long, sometimes boring and frustrating path of becoming a sucessful diver, or you push yourself to be a diver because it seems like the 'right' thing to do but its not the right thing for /you/.

there is nothing wrong with being a skimmer, but you have to take a long hard look at yourself and determine if that is what you /really/ are -- and if so, choose your path accordingly.

Don't go to college... yet.

[smoon]

Do something else. Be a missionary. Join the peace corps (do they take people w/out college degrees?). Hike the appalachian trail.

Main point is to get your know-it-all attitude fixed. Can't focus on something for long periods of time? You _need_ to learn to stick with things or you'll never get anywhere in life.

The real winners in our society are not the smartest, brightest people. They are the ones who through sheer effort of will and unwillingness to give up force success on themselves. This goes for anything - managers (even PHBs), athletes, government workers (ever seen the battery of tests and bureaucratic stuff these people live with?), startup businesses, rich people, poor people (yes, you can succeed at being poor if you try hard enough). Smartness helps -- becoming an M.D. takes more than hard work (lots of that though) -- but it's hardly the major determining factor for most things.

So once you've figured that out, _then_ go to college. It doesn't much matter what the degree is in or where you get it from. People with college degrees are the aristocrats of the current era. Without a degree you can't go very far. With a degree (even a fine arts from a local college) you can get a lucrative position in a stable organization (assuming thats what you will eventually want, which it will be once you settle down and have kids).

Another perspective.

[transops.net]

I am just as guilty as the next person in causing my own undoing. I do take a little from the fact that I at least acknowledge it, and try to fight it. Who knows, even I may not end up useless after all.

Most of the "smart people" I communicate with tend to think as futurists; they derive enjoyment from extrapolating novel outcomes from any given starting point in life. Sometimes they dream up futures that are somewhat Orwellian, and sometimes they imagine a world that operates better (if not faster).

My personal view, which I'd encourage you to consider (or disregard, as you wish) is either cheerful or hopeless, depending on how you want to use what it offers. If you're under age 30 today, I believe you'll get the opportunity to make that choice.

Today we are seeing a high rate of proliferation and evolution of "cooperative" (capable of arbitrarily routable information exchange) computing systems, which can be divided into a few categories:

(1) Physical Systems: Multiprocessor systems which utilize CPUs in concert to process information. These systems include everything from dual CPU servers to supercomputing clusters. The defining factor is close physical proximity of each CPU to the others in the system, and the use of local (isolated from the rest of the world) high speed interconnects to transfer information between CPUs.

(2) Geo-Localized Systems: I guess you could think of the collective computer systems which comprise a university campus as an example of this category. Any system which communicates with other systems in the grid constitutes a member of this group. Various methods of dividing systems into smaller groups (networks) are usually employed for political and administration purposes, but those divisions exist only to serve specific human goals for the locale.

(3) Global System: The Internet (and newer global academic networks under development) represents the infancy of a flexible, high speed, and resilient virtualized grid of computing units. As the network evolves, the important units will include lots of combinations of categories (1) and (2). We're setting the stage for the real fun.

Assuming current trends in information growth continue (manifested most clearly as faster computing systems connected to larger instantly accessible data stores), I don't think we'll have to wait *too* many years to see the rise of a distributed system that's self-aware in some respect and is capable of self-improvement. Some people call that a sentient system, others quibble over the definition of sentience. It's not really important.

The important part is the potential: this sort of system wouldn't have the kind of limits we normally associate with intelligence, and would demonstrate exponential growth while tending toward increasingly efficient operation (smaller components, whether physical or virtual, in closer proximity). The efficiency part is very much a necessity, given our current understanding of the limits imposed by physics on the speed of information transmission. Of course, at some point where its performance exceeds anything we can really imagine today, such a system could begin making optimizations that would leave our current crop of physicists scratching their heads...

Think about it a bit. Most smart people spend their lives feeling excluded from humanity, blessed and cursed with a mind that can't accept a simple existence as sufficient. Questions must always be answered, which leads us to ask another batch of questions. We're only happy when we're miserable solving the latest problem, and there's no difference between engineers, mathematicians, biologics, or the rest. Some of us learn to apply our minds to profitable professions, while others wind up destitute despite their mental gifts.

If the deepest reasons for humanity's biggest problems are eliminated, the global population stabilizes, and the human lifespan becomes ridiculously extended by the solutions afforded us by our new life form, how will you spe

Re:Another perspective.

[transops.net]

It's probably kinda lame to reply to one's own comment, but I should add more brain teasing idea to the mix:

A lot people have trouble accepting anything that resembles even the initial post-singularity stages of this future, mostly because of biological and structural speed limits for how normal predictive reasoning operates. Small example:

Some fairly intelligent people seem to believe it must be the case, but at least is entirely possible, that all of this has happened before, and if so will happen again. Or is all happening at once, since time is really a human construct. Whatever.

What I just described is a good example of the sort of concepts that human beings have trouble tokenizing, let alone understanding well enough to use in building new theoretical models for our universe. Really, "smarter" people have a bigger problem, since they are occassionally faced with the problem of deciding whether anything outside their own consciousness exists at all. I think the ones that wind up contributing neat stuff to humanity sort of reach the conclusion that it doesn't matter one way or the other.

In fact, we've gone past the point where any one person is individually capable of completely understanding our most complex systems at all. We use complex systems to -> run simulations to -> gather data to -> feed back into complex systems to -> produce even more complex systems. This gives us fun things like more advanced personal computers, better medical technologies, and fighter jets that fly at Mach 5.

Some of us do the research that drives this whole thing forward, and some of us spend most of our time following the rules of society well enough to be good consumers. That's important too, since the facilities and funding to take each new step toward the singularity wouldn't exist without the need to produce the things that keep the masses moving along happily.

Even measured in months per snapshot, each increase in the pace is pretty awesome. Once things reach the point where we can draw a tangible benefit from something that completely exceeds our biological ability to reason, the growth curve goes instantly vertical. We'll never to able to understand how it all works while we're still human; to have that level of insight would probably require the ability to directly conceive of additional dimensions of information.

Maybe that's where humanity is going; to phase itself out by merging with the infinite. While it's true that doesn't differ substantially from death when looked at from a "losing your humanity" point of view, at least it's humanity becoming a part of something else. If I get to be among those who see it happen, I'll be pretty happy.

Re:Another perspective.

[Cooty]

If you've ever played Illuminati, you may have already seen this truth about futurists: all Fanatics are opposite. (They are also usually not wealthy.) It is easy to get great ideas from them, but not easy to get them to organize, or agree, or even figure out how to agree. They can't always express their predictions in terms of logical argument, because the reasons are partially religious.

The idea of the singularity should bring up a mix of alarm and hope in all of us who can see its inevitability. You don't know whether you will reach utopia or dystopia, or a mix, because it depends on who controls it.

Mostly I am posting with a bit of advice: organize yourself. This is way too deep and long-winded to be lost this far into a /. discussion tree, and a bit rambling too. Maybe it is better suited for a blog, or a futurist forum?

Re:Another perspective.

[transops.net]

Mostly I am posting with a bit of advice: organize yourself. This is way too deep and long-winded to be lost this far into a /. discussion tree, and a bit rambling too. Maybe it is better suited for a blog, or a futurist forum?

Since approximately age seven (the age my father gave me an AT&T 8086 PC to learn programming) I've been trying to organize myself :). Or, somewhat more accurately, I've been trying to create models of everything I see around me to faciliate further modelling (a fool's errand, true, but engrossing work nonetheless).

Funny you should mention more appropriate placement in a blog or forum-style environment. I've been designing such an environment for the last two weeks in my spare time. I would have used existing an existing CMS to host it, but none of the major packages have the feature set I need as a capitalist interested in utilizing the system as a means for funding further investigation.

Might you be interested in contributing to the design and eventual content for such a system? Email me if this might be the case. Note: I've already got the network resources needed to accomodate a fairly ridiculous amount of traffic.

Re:Another perspective.

[transops.net]

It is easy to get great ideas from them, but not easy to get them to organize, or agree, or even figure out how to agree.

While I have observed this trend myself, I humbly submit the following idea that occured to me over coffee at Waffle House this evening:

Perhaps the very fact that they can't agree can be used to everyone's advantage. Everything is a matter of perspective, largely dependent upon the resolution of your viewing equipment. Projecting to a near-term future where ubiquitious computing is realized (Magic Kingdom style), we see a massive number of discrete capitalist micro-transactions taking place at a very fast pace.

From each individual's perspective, he's "buying resources" and "selling goods" he's produced so rapidly that he feels as though his needs are being met automatically. Zooming out to a global perspective, it appears that the entire planet is operating in a highly socialist manner. High density and frequency of individual capitalist transactions results in global socialist outcome. I guess this depends on population density to work well, though. Signs of this sort of emergent behavior are already being exhibited in densly populated and technologically advanced societies such as Japan. No wonder Gibson likes those folks so much...

Incidentally, I have a strong gut feeling that any person or group attempting to exercise control over such a vast system will feel the unfortunate backlash we've come to recognize from such famous experiments as the War on Drugs.

In other words, we're proving that current attempts at regulating free market behavior only serve to prove economists right by producing black markets devoid of said regulation. There's no reason the math would work any differently in the future, and considerable reason to believe that regulatory bodies will become increasingly impotent. Then there's the question of motivation: if everyone can easily obtain everything they want anyhow, what reason would even the worst egomaniac have for trying to control the system? It would be kinda like moonshiners trying to control the liquor market while consumers can buy legit product for $10 a jug.

I'd like to compliment you: I have a hard time finding many people who help me generate/refine ideas this way. You seem like a cool person. As stated in my last reply to your post, I'd be honored if you'd be willing to toss around more ideas with me from time to time. Please consider donating a few bytes of your bandwidth to pparadis@transops.net if you have a couple of minutes to spare here and there. If you're concerned about your privacy (a guess considering your non-public email), I highly recommend creating a free account at some free mail provider (more disk space now, competition is so yummy) or HushMail. Thanks!

Teaching

[rpillala]

Teaching is a career where it's generally valued to be unusually smart. Some of the other posters are correct in saying that humility is in order. The trick is:

1. Don't think you're special because you're smarter than people. It's not something you did on purpose.
2. Don't undervalue the work that other people have to put in to get what you have already.

I failed out of my first year of college for some of the reasons I've seen in other posts. No discipline, culture shock, laziness. I'm not saying you have to damage your academic records to learn the lesson, but you should find something you're not already good and put yourself in a position where you have to be able to do it.

Also, read The Introvert Advantage by Marti Olsen Laney:
http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/16/ 2143241&mode=nested&tid=134&tid=188&tid=19 2

Ravi

One more thing

[Insipid Trunculance]

If you think you are smart that's great because it gives you self-confidence.

But if you think others around you are stupid,you are not smart ,you are stupid.

If you think you're unique...

[eyepeepackets]

...then you're not very bright.

Rather a dim bulb probably, but that's okay: Motivation and willfulness count for a lot in the real world.

Cheers!

Get used to playing the game, be a whore

[Anonymous Coward]

There are lots of smart people out there.
There are lots of dumb people out there.
Go to a college/University that offers degree programs with some breath - Texas has a "Plan II" degree that might be exactly what you want. You may find that getting an advanced degree is to your liking - not mine. I graduated ASAP then went to work at NASA/JSC. Lots of really smart people there. After about 10 years, I decided to play the economic game better and left for commercial employment. Working in a small company taught me that anything can be accomplished by small teams of dedicated folks having fun in a directed way. Accountant, Network admin, Sales, Marketing these skills were used daily. Oh, and I was hired as a lead developer so directing 10+ people and performing development duties was also required. Don't lose track of family and friends. Get married and create a few kids. Some of the greatest joy comes from raising kids. I can't explain it.

I got bored with the tiny company (50 employees) and became a consultant. The changes in jobs keeps me interested, the traveling does get old, but the money and perceived lifestyle are ok.

I'm extremely fulfilled today and have more than enough money. I believe they call it "the good life."

Whatever you do, learn to play the money games to be certain economically you are set. I'm bothered when I see really smart people just barely surviving (say just over $100k/year), when it doesn't take much to bring in 3x that amount and be very comfortable. Oh and always live below your means.

DO NOT Join the military

[Anonymous Coward]

Joining th military has to be the single stupidest piece of advice anyone has posted in this entire discussion.

A "uniquely bright" person does not volunteer to have their "light" extinguished over issues that could have been solved, and solved permanently, with a single nuclear weapon or a matralineal mitochondria targetted enginered retrovirus.

If you are stupid enough to join the military, at least get a college degree first so you can join as an officer, rather than cannon fodder, and can get fragged by one of your platoons grenades, rather than direct enemy fire.

- NOT RECON

Here is what I did

[BraveSlice]

Hi! I felt exactly the same at your age (at least it sounds like it from your short post) AND still do (my age 31).

My advice, solely from my life - and expecially - how I did not do.

Take a profession from engineering department, something that makes you pretty salary and not so much work and gives you wide education (mechatronics). And graduate fast fast and again fast. (It took 10+ years from me :( and even I enjoyed it (about student life) I'm not entitled to big salaries witch would make my life easier.) But don't become as a boss they have so much daily routines that you don't have time to anything else.

This way you have time to do other stuff, your stuff. It really works you know (I'm doing it) if you are like me, it takes so little time to do stuff that it is laughable. I mean they give me 6 month project so it leaves you with 5 moths to do your own stuff. Overcoming motivation problems is easy as deadlines are made for it.

Currently I'm postgraduate engineering, studying physics degree, making some robotic stuff and wasting so much time to breaking RSA that I would cry if it would not be so laughable.

So as others said: "FOCUS on one subject" and my + advice "DIFFUCE when you are getting your salary"

But take my word of it: Uniquely Bright is probably not true. There are at least 50 million of them and most of them are pretty much not looking bright :)

Autolelic

[Anonymous Coward]

is the word to describe people who find it extremely difficult to pay attention to matter in which they are not intrinsically interested. Another word, alas, is lazy. If you cannot cultivate the discipline to direct your attention to finishing projects even after you have, for instance, "solved" the intellectually interesting problem, then you will not be able to harness any alleged brilliance enough to gain extrinsic rewards (such as paychecks and patents and respect from others).

I am autolelic and also lazy, which is why I never finished my dissertation (solved the problem to my own satisfaction and lost interest in sharing it with others) and am currently a housewife. Though I am reasonably satisfied with a life which allows me to read as many books as I want, take this as a warning. All the fanatically driven work I did for twelve years in academia (many publications, stellar comprehensive exams, awards, general anointing as the Next Big Thing) is now ONLY intrinsically valuable, and garners no other rewards than immaterial ones. Knowing Wittgenstein enriches my mental life. But I have failed to translate all that education into any sort of substantial difference between me and all the other gardening housewives in town.

So be very very careful, kid. Your real decision for the immediate future is about your habits and character, not choice of field. If you can't discipline your autolelic tendencies, and thus end up giving up whenever you are bored, you will become a dilettante and probably an annoying one (the kind of person who thinks they are just too smart of have to work at stuff that fails to fascinate them). Any and every job includes boring parts. Learn to live with a little boredom if it enables you to keep a job which SOMETIMES interests you.

Read a lot of books, too. Just my two cents as an extremely well-educated person looking forward to teaching her kids classical Greek.

Same as anyone else

[Elvis Maximus]

My advice to you is the same as it would be to anyone else: figure out how to be happy. I mean truly happy, not I-just-got-a-new-big-screen-TV happy. This is really not easy, and it is different for everyone, but I can give you some pointers:

Try to recognize that being smarter than other people does not necessarily make you smart. You don't know a whole lot more than you know. Take pleasure in the finding out and the understanding; not in being "smarter" than someone else.

I can't tell you what will make you happy, but I can assure you that it's not your job, or how much money you have, how big a house you live in or what kind of car you drive. Many people -- including allegedly "smart" people -- never figure that out.

You can learn from people who are dumber than you.

People can be difficult and our institutions are inflexible. When you have different needs from others, and have different talents, some of life's interactions can be difficult or unsatisfying. But if you can recognize what makes you truly happy -- and stop struggling for things that don't -- none of that will matter so much, and a lot of it will fall into place.

Forget Intelligence, Creativity First

[Bistrosavage]

All too many intelligent people in the world. They cost a hydrogen atom per supercluster. Find out your area of maximal creative production that you enjoy. (If you don't enjoy it, life sucks!) Then do it. That's it. There's more, but I'm not telling now. Good luck.

life, v2

[literate]

1. good question. my advice is to ask good questions - they are much more important than answers.

2. this is an old question and there have been many answers. seek them in addition to those here. despite what you think, (based on feedback from the educational system you rely on for 'facts',) you are not unique. two i like are by emerson & tr roosevelt:

"To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded."

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man that points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who, at the worst, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."

3. traditional college may no longer the investment it once was. gov't influence has raised prices. seek alternative forms of education: job, mentor, entrepreneurship. buy the education you need when you need it.

4. marry young and have children. at the end of the day: children are what we are here to do.

5. people are polynomials, life is non-linear.

I am not bright at all

[gatkinso]

far from it. In fact I think I am below average.

However I write pretty good code (C++), and in a reasonable amount of time.

Plus, I managed a degree in math and a masters in CS.

Where I am above average is in persistance. I simply will not let something go until I understand it - and I mean really understand it.

Sure this means more work for the same GPA, that sort of thing: but it amazes me how I consistantly outperform many - by no means all - people whom I think are more intelligent.... because often times they won't try very hard.

However when it comes to skiing I am a genius. Maybe I should just become a ski bum.

Re:I am not bright at all

[RKEM]

I can relate.
The further you go (i.e. when you switch to graduate school after your undergrad) the more your grades depend on how much you work rather than how intelligent you are. I think its even designed to be that way ... most likely because university teachers don't want to end up surrounded by lazy bums.
Academic success is a skill, not an inate talent. Maybe at first its easy but eventually you will reach a point where you have to work to keep going.

Wrong question

[Anonymous Coward]

Ask the real questions.

Which about those people who are stupid bastards? People bad at their jobs despite honest intent and hard work. Nerds who struggle with weak learning skills in ever-changing technical jobs. Guys who put up with titans colleagues - legends who spin around bad doco in places where they blow it? How do their spouses cope with having to work longer hours to do the same work as the next dude (albeit at a consistently lower standard)? What do they do about bad self-image?

One tip

[autolycos]

Find a good mentor at college, one who can help you cut through all of the b*lls**t. Otherwise, you'll have the same experience at college as you had in High School.

Re:Advice from someone like you

[rende]

I am still in college and was very much like you describe yourself when I was in high school. I was told I was 'gifted' all throughout school, was told I had an IQ of 160+, skipped a grade and was given special treatment throughout my early school years. As a result, when I got to high school I did not feel the need to work hard at anything and my grades suffered. As a result I learned that the main advice everyone here seems to be says (i.e. you are not special, get over it) is true. I worked several jobs which did not require any special education, moved around alot and I met many people.

Many of these people considered themselves to be unique, intelligent and in possession some god given right to hold their heads higher then other people even when they were just mowing lawns or working tech support like thousands of other people. This attitude will prevent anyone from accomplishing anything meaningful in thier lives. This is the biggest lesson I have learned by not going straight into college. I believe had I done that, there is a possiblity I would have failed out. After working for a few years and 'seeing the world' I am truly motivated to learn and make myself a better person. Now I am a year away from graduation, taking a dual major with honors and I have 4.0 GPA. And no, it didn't come easy.

Believe it when we say forget all that preconcieved bs that you have been fed up until this point. The sooner you realize you are only gifted in the fact that you can make decisions for yourself (which puts you in with a majority of the rest of the population), then you can begin to work hard and accomplish whatever it is you set your mind to do.

You didn't count the time invested

[dhk42]

On average a Ph.D. (in biology at any rate) will have spent 8 years or so post BS before getting a job at a big Pharmaceutical company. Sure, I know that there are exceptions, but the combination of doctorate and post-doctoral fellowship tends to be around 8 years. Sometimes less, occasionally a great deal more.

Get a B.S. and work hard for 8 years and if you are good you may have the same office and the same pay. Plus you have earned actual money for 8 years while the guy with the Ph.D. (me) hasn't even started saving for retirement yet.

IMO the best education/work balance for big Pharma (again for biology - perhaps also for chemistry) is the M.S. They will have the easiest time getting a job and the couple of years spent getting the M.S. will probably pay for itself.

The downside is that those without a Ph.D. will tend to hit a ceiling earlier in their career. But not always.

And anyway, no one calls me Doctor.

dhk

Re:You didn't count the time invested

[chialea]

This is generally true of most disciplines, even the humanities, from what I've been told.

Lea

Re:You didn't count the time invested

[ebh]

My wife has a bachelor's degree in chemistry, and used to do discovery and NMR spectroscopy in agricultural research.

At her company, anyone without a PhD was a permanent second-class citizen no matter how long they had been working or how good they were. Also, a master's degree was useless--you were better off keeping your bachelor's or taking the plunge and going for the PhD.

Her theory was that the eight years of indentured servitude required for a PhD was another example of "we had to do it so you have to do it".

Stay in school and ... you could do other things!

[rahard]

I'd stay stay in school, and continue until you get your PhD, then enjoy life ;-). That's what I did.

Nobody likes school, but that's besides the point. I stayed in school and just layed low. I could enjoy my youth, played with friends (bands, motorcycle, etc.), made a lot of (interesting) friends, (sometimes skip classes, but the teachers couldn't complain since I passed whatever tests they gave, ha ha ha). At one point one teacher noticed me, gave me an A without a test, and occasionally he asked me to teach my classmates. I guess he knew that I got bored just listening to him.

Using this strategy I could do various interesting things when I am still young. Good thing I did those things. Now, I am older (hopefully wiser) and enjoying life.

Good luck.

PS: I lied. I am not that bright...

:!logout

I always thought I was bright

[Anonymous Coward]

...since I have a 500-word vocabulary. Of course, I'm a dog.

Oh damn, now you know I'm a dog on the Internet.

This sounds like me...

[farnsaw]

Your situation sounds like me about 10 years ago. The one thing I can say is to push through the "boring" subjects as quickly as you can. I made the mistake of ignoring them and then had to re-take them, nothing worse than being bored for the second time. The ones you find interesting you will ace without any apparent effort.
One thing I can also recommend, find a good advisor and a good school. These two things will keep your attention and also let you take classes you would not normally be allowed to take to help you along. For example, they will sometimes let you take a class that is a Masters level course before you have graduated or even finished the prerequisites for it. Watch for these opportunities and go for it as they will challenge you.
Remember, the farther you go in school (and university is no exception) the less "general" topics you will have to take.

The curse of sentience

[Anonymous Coward]

If you really are "exceptionally bright" be advised that this is quite the double-edged sword. I'm not meaning to be cynical - just realistic.

We exist in a society where peoples' insecurities are at the center of their motivations. Occasionally we appreciate someone who challenges convention and succeeds, but most people have underlying contempt for others who have achieved more than themselves, so if you do think you're superior, expect a long, hard road trying to garner respect from those who would rather not be reminded that they haven't realized their potential.

Most of us tech-type people think too much. We actually like to solve problems instead of patching them. This works really well in black-and-white scenarios where one is judged according to criteria that's well qualified. However in the realm of social interaction, these traits can be counterproductive. This is an important thing to recognize early and address.

If I were talking with you one-on-one, I'd be more interested in finding out about your family life than I would be your particular interests at this time. Insight into how you were raised will likely indicate which path you'll ultimately take as well as what your priorities will be in the future.

Don't listen to this guy

[Anonymous Coward]

He's a lawyer. =)

What to do?

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound like a typical victim of the US educational system: no real challenges before university, and then WHAMMO!

If you think that you are bright, the best way to find out is to move to an environment where you know that everyone is bright and see how you compare.

So try to get into a college which scores high on the comparison list that they have for colleges in the US and which teaches technical subjects one of which you really wish to excel in. Then enroll and simply try to excel.

As in seeing how good you really are compared to all the others. If you think you can manage it, then aim for a scholarship at MIT or some such place. At least it will allow you to take your own measure.

deja-vu

[manickernel]

I wonder what might have happened if I had asked the same questions at your age. I came from a high school of 600 where I was perceived as you are and went to a college of 20,000 where I was just average. Couldn't get over it and eventually dropped out. Traveled, started sailing, went all over and learned a lot. Except I kept running from responsibility. I had no discipline but could learn anything I became really interested in, unless it was too difficult and then I rationilzed that it wasn't that interesting. I have read a lot of the posts on here and as with everything in life there is both some fine wisdom and some real BS here. Be careful to not choose those posts that are what you "want to hear". At age 38 (10 years ago) I realized I was an alcoholic. Best thing that ever happened to me as it finally taught me humility, perserverance and tenacity, as well as the ability to reach out to others for help. Now, ten years later I feel I am a fairly competent sys-admin in a large organization. Still love to sail. You have your life ahead, don't follow the cynicism expressed by the more arrogant minds on here, that is a waste. Remember, imagination is more valuable than intelligence.

Drop out, slacker!

[billcopc]

Take it from a fellow elitist: get out of that nerd-camp while you still can. There's nothing more depressing than posting to slashdot on a laptop with your cell phone while waiting for a cab fare. 25 years old, 160+ iq, driving a cab, hacking Apache source and poorer than the day I graduated.

If you're still not broken, well at least get a laptop so you'll be able to cohort with your fellow geeks a few years down the line when your life is a mess and all you've got left is that peachy old laptop.

Learn to have a WORK ETHIC

[thebeaglebeagle]

You've got intelligence. You're creative and "bright". Great RAW MATERIALS. It doesn't mean anything if you don't have a work ethic. You might need to learn to put up with the "crapwork" that typical education throws your way. Life is full of crapwork. All of education, unless in an applied environment, is "fake" work.

Okay, some more friendly advice: When you get to college, spend a lot of time researching professors and classes before you sign up for them. Keep a notebook and go around to seniors and ask them what the best class they took was. Or ask them what professors were the absolute best and *worst*. Ask this question a lot and take careful notes. I found I could endure a topic that was boring (to me) if the professor was a truly excellent educator. Chaucer was one of my favorite classes, and Chaucer is pretty dry stuff. I ended up loving Chaucer because the professor was a genius.

Do the above and college won't be boring. Obviously get involved in interesting extracurriculars, and the advice about using your summer wisely is good.

Not to be mean, but I suppose I must throw in a vote for the people who said to "get over yourself." Humility is a really awesome strength. If you are humble and willing to sacrifice your ego at key opportunities, life is so much more fun! You know you are intelligent, you have confidence in your abilities. That's very, very, cool. But life will be easier if you can be proven totally wrong in front of a crowd of 50 students and still come up with a sheepish humble grin on your face. People will like you better too. You may already have a healthy modicum of humility. I'd suggest practicing that skill until it is one of the best tools in your box. Know when to stand up for your beliefs and know when you are right, but keep the humble tool handy so you can end up being wrong in a healthy way.

Cognitive Science

[FLoWCTRL]

Cogsci is a mix of philosophy, computer science, linguistics and psychology. Weigh the disiplines according to your interests, but a good cogsci program will have elements of each. Your goal: understand, in a meaningful way, things that are described by words such as intelligence, consciousness, emotion, awareness. Some like to call it "AI". There are amazing and interesting challenges in this field.

The one rule you need to follow...

[frobnoid]

The best tip I can give anyone who is "unusually but non-traditionally 'bright'":
Shower regularly.

Don't listen to the excuses for failure

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all: look into a small liberal arts college. Avoid the degree factories unless you can get into one of the very best (MIT, et al.) which with a non-stellar G.P.A. is unlikely these days. Check out "Colleges that Change Lives." these are the places that real education occurs these days. Sure they cost more than your local state u. but they actually offer something other than a piece of paper at the end.

Second, get over the idea that education is simply about acquiring knowledge. That's one of the things that not so bright people tell themselves to console themselves for not being as bright as they think they are. Education is about acquiring a set of skills that are needed in order to live a successful and fulfilling life. These are not necessarily the same skills as are needed in order to get a job and make money.

There is much that you need to learn. Your description of yourself reveals that very clearly. You should have more willpower than you have. Life involves completing "projects" that you have "lost interest in." If you can't learn how to do that you will not get far and probably go through life without having ever actually accomplished anything. This is a skill. And should be learned alongside of the subject matter of whatever courses you are taking.

Although your post shows an adequate ability with the english language this is something that can be infinitely perfected and developed. Being able to write and speak persuasively is one of the most valuable skills (or arts) that you can develop in your four years of college. People take the literate seriously. Believe me.

Forget the idea that you are just going to acquire knowledge in some particular area (coding, engineering etc.). We all read the stories about how the software industry is being eviscerated. The tech jobs that you think that you are training for in 2005 will not be the jobs that are available in 2020. Acquiring a broad skill-set allows you to retrain mid-career. Most people, it is said, will change PROFESSIONS two or three times in a career. Being really good at HTML may get you a job out of highschool, but will you be working at Wal-mart when your job is outsourced to India?

Look to put it simply. A lot of people here will tell you that education is bullshit. These are people who are unhappy with their education for one reason or another. Either they think they are smarter than they really are, or they made bad decisions and want to blame others for them. The possibility of education is a privilege. It is one of the remaining great virtues of our collapsing civilization. Take advantage of it, but make sure you are ready for it. That you know what you want from it, what it can give you, and that the school you are going to can provide it. Second, be ready to grow up. That's what eduation is really about.

Garh!

[Anonymous Coward]

I can relate to everything you said there, Im not sure how the American system works but im in my 3rd year of uni about to do another year (no prize for guessing why) so for a start i'd say at least don't fail! Its really not worth it. You probably know a great deal of what you are going to study anyway but there might be some things holding you back (for me it was weird maths) the sooner you learn them the easier it will be for you, you dont need to spend all your time studying, infact you can get away with a suprising ammount of not-doing-any-work and still get very good marks, its just important that you plan those key things - projects, exams etc.

On another note, work experience is so much better than the class-room. I think you find learning on your own much easier, i know i do, so make sure you take advantage of that and learn as much as you can, you might find you don't even need to turn up to some lectures, you really can learn it all yourself, but don't get too full of yourself.

Project boredom is something i think that effects allot of people, but you might want to try taking advantage of the first few weeks when you start a project, do the boring stuff (reports etc) in the background at the same time! Sometimes its just hard and you have to push yourself even when you are bored as shit and want to go play GTA. I've yet to master it, so make sure you do because people who can take any project and do it from start to finish decently will go very far. I tend to procrastinate on things too much and try and do everything the proper way (eg trying to produce perfect style separate from content CSS websites) and you really have to have a balance because theres only so much you can do in a given time and finishing a project is worth more in the real world.

Another suggestion: Delete every game you own! get rid of the disks, give them to friends, parents, or just break them, and get rid of any other timewasting things you can. If you miss them and feel like getting them back then just do something else - learn something that interests you or do something useful, even if its reading slashdot or howstuffworks for an hour its still more productive, you will quickly get over the things you miss.

Don't get a crush on a girl and then spend a year not telling her, unless you really like being tortured. Friends are important and if you're an INTP you probably like a small circle of friends so don't feel you have to know everyone in the campus/class. Getting totally pissed/high can be fun but just remember spending all your money isnt fun.

I think in general i just wish i had tried harder at things, its amazing what a little bit of work can do if you just sit down and get it done. Also,just don't be shy - that doesnt sound very helpful but really theres no other way to put it.

Bah :/

[Illissius]

Dammit. The one time I don't use preview... :/

Intelligence isn't worth a [insert witty expression, god I'm bad at these] if you don't use it.

Get a life, go travelling

[Anonymous Coward]

I did really bad in high school, managed to get into University, dropped out on the second year and went travelling Europe (i'm southamerican). I've learnt english, spanish and french, got laid A LOT, met really cool people and did all the crap jobs travellers do (restaurants, building, painting and few others).
When I was tired of this circuit, I went to a french University and got a computing degree just after 2001. It wasn't the good time to get an IT job, but I managed to get a helpdesk job in a big IT company. All the travelling and languages taught me a lot about people an the most important, about myself. Today I'm about to get a job as unix systems engineer in the same company that hired me for the helpdesk. There are guys who I met in the Uni and that were much smarter than me and are still looking for a job (2 years later) cause they wouldn't start off humble and open up their path as I did in the helpdesk. I suppose sometimes intelligence gives you too much proud to see the real smart choices.
Go travelling, meet people and GET LAID. The rest will workout itself.

Re:A few words of advice from someone who understa

[ahriman]

Thanks for the advice, I'll remember it. I visited Newcastle a couple of months ago; my cousin studies Law there. It seems like a really nice place, just a bit of a pain to get to from Wales ;) Same goes for Edinburgh really so I suppose it's more likely that I'll end up at UMIST.

Right, time to do some revision; 23 hours to go until the exam!

College

[Anonymous Coward]

The way my intelligent self got through college was with a lot of beer

Don't feed the Troll!!

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

It's a troll. It has to be a troll. Either that or its an eight year old who thinks he's all that.

Stop posting comments ASAP.

Expect to be cut down to size

[nurb432]

If you feel you are 'bright' and have to go around asking people for advice, its all in your head and when you get to the real world, you will be put in your place.

On the slight chance you really are above most others, you can expect to live a life of misery, as an outcast of society, and will never be able to hold a job for long, as your mind will wander far too much to commit to anything.

First, are you really broad?

[Anonymous Coward]

You must have an art or 2, music or painting etc... you must also have some spiritual expertise. Take up a couple of religions or phylosophy and theology. Take one complete illogical decision in your life, like backpacking somewhere that you know there's not much chance of getting a lift, but you know that there is at least a chance to live. Be poor, be rich, be the nerd, be the guy who gets all the girls.

Once you're really broad, then figure out one thing that could take your entire life to do and if your heart agrees then you've found it. Do it early in your life. With all this I can't tell you whether school has anything to do with any of that, but experiencing it somewhat, can't really be a bad thing and won't lock you down into one way of thinking unless you go to a really crappy school where it is you that sets your own standards for growth.

Is your computer like a screwdriver or like that poem that drives you in life?

Re:First, are you really broad?

[Dan9999]

oops, this is a new os install and I forgot to login before posting. I'm not usually anonymous and not always a coward. Oh and my computer is a screwdriver :)

Re:First, are you really broad?

[Anonymous Coward]

Lot of advice here. Poor guy, but you asked for it. Here's mine. Skip college, get a job, save like crazy, learn to invest and take risks. Move out into the country and find the cheapest place you can. Read books and play around on the computer the rest of your life. Social status is a big joke.

Write your best epitaph,... live long and earn it!

[Anonymous Coward]

A credibly brilliant young man was chosen to go directly from his first year in graduate school to an associate professor's position. He was impressed with himself, but he was even less impressed by others (especially his supposed peers).

He found that his students appreciated his fresh approach, as he appreciated their inquisitiveness. When the end of the school year arrived, he realized that he felt somehow obligated to pass some last words of wisdom to those who had shown attention and appreciation.

"Remember you're one of a kind. You're special,... and don't be afraid to question authority!"

Year after year, students took in those last words in awed silence,... and then gave their applause. One year, a student in the back of the room humbly raised his hand and asked, "What's an authority?"

Ah, depends

[Zareste]

I guess it's natural to dislike school when you like learning. They're at two totally different ends of the spectrum. If you like to learn stuff, you can read almost anything off the internet, getting the information from a variety of people as opposed to a single professor who may or may not have the slightest clue what he's talking about. All thanks to the internet, know-it-all people claiming to be experts are debunked every day, and a lot of those sorts are the ones teaching at schools.

I think college is just good for medical studies and engineering, where there's not a whole lot of room for errors. Also for getting 'broken in' to subjects (like C#) which are really hard to teach without interaction. Otherwise you might end up blowing off a year and a small fortune on something you could have looked up from Google.

Data with which to feed your thoughts

[Anonymous Coward]

Albeit unusual and hard to find

Quite old book:
"La persuasione e la rettorica" (persuasion and rhetoric) from Carlo Michelstaedter, italian, 1910
I don't know of any english translation of this little known book, but it is in my sense the most devastatingly accurate critic of the "normal" way of thinking. On par with Nietzsche's understanding of human society.

Much more recent articles: www.lygeros.org/0116-M-classification_English.htm
and following textes about the way intelligence should be used by those gifted with unusual amount of it on behalf of humanity in the widest sense. Subtly subversive reading.

get a girl, and drink some beer

[bobalu]

It's good for you. Really.

Also, I'd recommend a smattering of sports knowledge so you can actually make small talk to other people.

Learn to listen to other people and appreciate THEIR unique bright-ness, which may not manifest in the same way as yours does.

And consider you're comments have already tagged you as a prima donna in a place which should surely know one; possibly your friends are too nice to tell you. If you make some progress on that, your quesion will have been worth asking.

Otherwise you'll just be another snot-nosed twit that'll be crushed in your first confrontation with another bright and possibly more evil co-worker/boss/teacher's aide.

No charge.

Avoid romantic relationships

[Bazoinker]

it dims bright sparks.

Re:Avoid romantic relationships

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they'll be avoiding him.

College is not High School

[rebill]

One bit of advice that I heard before I started taking classes in college boiled down to this:

"You will use maybe 20% of what we teach you in college. Unfortuantely, we have no way of knowing which 20% is important for you - so we take into account that your 20% is different that his 20% and her 20%, and we end up teaching you more than you need. to compensate."

Take advantage of this, and explore anything that sounds interesting while you still can. You have enough control to read the entire set of course listings, and your cirriculum is specified by you, instead of some state education board. I did that, and found that,

• I loathed accounting
• I loathed programming in COBOL
• I had no talent for Thermodynamics
• Programming was easy, and fun

I was a math major, until the day they sat me down in front of a keyboard and insisted that I write a program. Then I was hooked.

Take drama 101. Take the programming classes that interest you. Take art appreciation. Take Business Economics. Take Philosophy 101. Any of those that drive you crazy for a mere three months (until the class is over) are not a total loss - you have learned something very important about yourself and what kind of things you do not want to do.

And that is my key point. College is about learning about YOURSELF as much as it is about learning the curriculum that they offer.

And yes, you sound like an INTP. If you have not read up on Myers-Briggs personality classification, do so, now.

THE PURPOSE TO LIFE (easy)

[Anonymous Coward]

well, that's enough whining out of you, a slashdot exclusive. Just go ahead and try and poke holes in my...

REASON FOR EXISTANCE! (buh buh buh...)

this universe starts with energy, goes to sub atomic particles, goes to hydrogen, goes to higher elements, goes to molecules, finally, stars, which AGE and DIE just like us humans, and when they do their product is even more complex substances... finally we get rocks, asteroids, then planets.. then on these planets you get big petri dishes, where simple organic molecules undergo the same transformations that hydrogen did, in essence, that has been occuring since 0.00...0001 picoseconds after whatever started the damn universe off. Finally, you get life, and behold, it gets more complex, and finally, intelligence.. and guess what we do.. we make more and more complex things.. like computers, like art, like nanoscale materials with more complexity (and inherently implied, _order_) in a smaller space then ever before.

whew.

There are two things here, if you can follow me to this point. ONE: the universe is ALWAYS moving from Reduced Energy to Increased ORDER (information density) and TWO: intelligence has given rise to the ultimate form of this expression, conscious evolution of materials to acheive this process even faster and more spectacularly. NOW,

Pull what you want out of this, but i am DAMN sure that the purpose of life has always been to process the sheer energy of the universe into substance, where order is bestowed upon the void. I ask you, what is love but the ultimate, and not at all uniques to humanity (but perhaps the most powerful take on) the urge that has created us ALL from you and me to the computer to the stars in the sky.

The purpose of life is to connect, to build, to love, but less hippishly, to continue Energy->Information Density. It's called Entropy, and you just can't get around it. What isn't clear here? please, it's so overwhelmingly obvious to me.. what can you refute?

you can send feed back to circleSPAMcycle@spam_hotmail.com if you want, but isn't that just beautiful and elegant enough to believe? what system of ethics and morals, in it's abstract form, violates this concept?

hope i did something here. peace.

Stick to it

[Anonymous Coward]

When reading the original post, I thought I was reading a description of myself.

My best advice to you, as someone who has just recently finished college, is to stick to college, and try extra hard. I only went to class about 15% of the time overall, and I ended with a decent GPA (3.2), but I regret the lost chance to get a 4.0. With only a little more effort, I could have gotten that 4.0, and I realize that now. Don't make the same mistake, stick to going to class, and try as much as it takes to get a 4.0. When you hit the job market, that number will push you ahead of the pack.

Well.

[SuiteSisterMary]

Sounds like an INTP, aye. If you can read this and start adding your own name to the various descriptions, that's a good sign.

If this is the case, remember that we're 1 percent of the general population, and the the world is more or less specifically designed to piss us off.

Learn to recognize the fact that you'll feel that way, learn to recognize that in many cases, what somebody's doing that makes you really really mad is making you mad because of your brain wiring, not because they're trying to piss you off, and you'll get along fine.

You will, however, find it annoying in a vague and distant way that you'll find a new hobby, throw yourself into it body and soul for a few weeks to a few months, become proficient, and drop it for a few years. On the other hand, I find that this isn't so bad, as I often collect so much stuff during the acquisition/learning phase that I don't get to it all during the use phase, so I have something waiting for me when I get back to it later.

Re:Write your best epitaph,... live long and earn

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an idiot.

Life isn't just about death. Besides, it's rare, if ever, that someone knows exactly what they want in life, from the very beginning.

If you can over your sense of grandiosity, you may enjoy life,... and find others enjoying you, too.
[ps - the original poster and i share the same body,... and name]

College...

[Anonymous Coward]

Resist the temptation to drink your self into oblivion during your college years. I have a friend who is a 4.0 student and is in AA at the age of 21. Don't waste your time, money, energy on recreational drugs (pot, etc...). Work hard, study hard, and give it your best effort. I am in my 5.5 year of undergrad, because I goofed off too much in the beginning.

A Reminder

[Anonymous Coward]

Advice is just that, kid. Don't come back here in a year blaming Anonymous Coward or your Daddy or anyone for telling you what to do. You're your own person, no matter what anyone ever tells you. The onus is on you.

Most of the assmasters here (IMHO) are jealous of you or have been fucked up by girls, school, drugs, whatever. Mostly they are talking to themselves, back in time, with whatever wisdom they think they've gained. Some of that wisdom could be wrong - we're talking about 25-49 career oriented bureaufucks. They're not trustworthy. They want you to join the tribe.

The happy truth is, kid, there's more to life. And if you want to live a full life, here's a simple formula: do a little at a time and it will all add up. Patience actually works. You may find yourself wailing, you may find yourself poor and hungry and in the wilderness of our hideous society. But it's all experience, right?

At some point you'll probably start questioning your beliefs, even isolating your limiting beliefs. You may have already done this; at any rate, if you've any brains you'll work out some things make you too happy, kind of like candy, and eventually make you sick. Some things are fulfilling, like vegetables. They're nutritious, good for the mind/body interface.

My advice is don't take anything too seriously. I'll wager you've never been on the brink of death, never had the kind of life changing experience that makes that rule really meaningful. Eventually you will, and you'll find it handy.

Don't take that rule too seriously, though. Rules are suggestions, consensus reality is just a consensus. If you really want to prove yourself, make your own life.

Think of your experiences like a toolbox. You choose what you take from each experience, and learn modes of behavior that enhance or detract from your experience. With these you populate your toolbox. And for all intents and purposes, that's what you are.

So be careful. The next ten years are usually pretty rough on a person.

Best of luck, kid, and everyone else too.

Smoke Weed

[Anonymous Coward]

and Lots of it. Sooner or later you'll find that you forgot why you were so frustrated in the first place. Moreover, you'll now have little problem working a lame job and going nowhere in life. It sounds to me like your main problem is worrying that you don't measure up like you should. Relax and try to enjoy your time here.

College Suggestions

[bigfatlamer]

First of all, you must attend college. I would put my little brother in the "non-traditionally bright" category. Very smart kid who almost never got the challenges he needed in high school to really shine and ended up doing a year at comm. college and then dropping out, never (at least yet and it's been 6 years) to return. He drives a truck that picks up low-level hazardous waste now which I think is wasting his talent.

I would suggest that you look at some of the "non-traditional" colleges to help nurture your "non-traditional" intelligence. Schools like Evergreen State, Hampshire (caution, Flash), Antioch and Colorado College among others.

These schools tend to have very flexible curricula, lots of independent projects, small seminar-based classes and DIY major programs. I have friends who have attended all of these schools who I think are much happier and doing much better now (10 years after graduation) than they would have if they'd attended "better" schools with more straightforward lecture/lab/test curricula.

I don't think I would have done particularly well at these places, I like some flexibility but need a fair amount of structure in my learning. If you are the sort of person who just strikes off on your own trying to learn whatever interests you, this may be your best chance.

I just finished a PhD last week and my advice about grad school is that you cross that bridge when you come to it. Maybe it will be exactly what you need, maybe it will be a complete waste of 2-8 years (mine took 5 FWIW). Get yourself a broad, interesting, liberal arts degree first (with a focus on CS or biology or photography or whatever if you want).

My $.02

BFL

Advice from somebody thats been there

[silas_moeckel]

You sound a lot like me ten years ago though probably with a shorter attention span. Anyway here goes.

School well just get through it mentors are a good thing find a teacher with lots of short projects things that are hard to do but with short deadlines. To much in acidemia are these long term projects that get bogged down granted this is how some reasearch works and how many in corprate america do there day to day stuff.

Work it's all about saying yes. Allwasy say yes to any project get it started and have it's own life. You can make a lot more money as the idea person than the tighen the bolts write the piles of code person. Write the core prototype code the functional type but dont let yourself get bogged down in writting error checking rutines or pretty gui interfaces. You need to impress people that you can get the idea end of it through prototype and that it's more valuable to have you work the next idea than play with pretty gui's or bells and wistles for the marketing people. Consulting is a good section to be in as you move around a lot and are to expensive to give the drudgery to.

ignore the insulting ones

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt the problem is that the poster is being arrogant. More likely (s)he has been tested, given a high IQ score on a piece of paper and given flak throughout life for being off the norm. When you don't fit close to the high point of the bell curve a dual message comes in all the time - "you aren't so great, and why haven't you cured cancer yet? You're weird so we're going to isolate you, but you should still just simply know how to do everything." It's an unwinnable situation that confuses the dickens out of the recipient of it.

So the person in that spot goes looking for an answer in various places, trying to phrase the question in a way that accurately describes the problem and gets slammed again for doing so.

What is really being sought is a place where one's alienness isn't constant being pointed out, where there's some common ground with others and a perception of being the same species as at least a few people. I work now in science research and still can't find that place.

I've only ever seen the first XMen movie, but that place where the alien ones could go and belong just kills me. It doesn't appear to exist in reality, or at least it hides really well.

Of course if there are any well-monied sorts about that need to do a little karmic repair work and wants to play the Xavier (Stewart) role and set up such a place, we're all ears...

Find somewhere you can work with your betters.

[cduffy]

While attending CSU Chico I interned at MontaVista Software. Unlike everywhere else I had been (including the university), my peers there were, by and large, my betters. This made it a fantastic learning experience -- I had the opportunity to do everything from design and development of internal-use tools to software porting, low-level kernel debugging, and quite a bit more, all in an environment full of people who knew these areas better than I. (At one point I found myself sitting next to Robert Love at lunch, while he was working on the preemptive kernel patch. The "regulars" also included Paul Mundt, maintainer for the MIPS and SH ports of Linux, and a vast number of PPC kernel hackers).

My time in university made me better at what I now do -- I wouldn't have learned the finer points of database schema normalization otherwise, and would still consider the CPU a black box. All that said, though, if I had to point to one period in time of intense personal development, it would be my internship with MontaVista. (The ego correction from working with so many people so much better than me was a much-needed thing, too).

Re:A few words of advice from someone who understa

[rugwuk]

proximity to home is not a requirement, I'm from Kenilworth ( Coventry ) area, and I moved as far away from home as I could :-), without going abroad. That was then I now live in portland Oregon USA. One last thing, bright people travel well. Ones unusual abilities stick out more in other countries and make it easier to succeed!

Please don't be a programmer

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sick and tired of people who can't finish their code because they get done doing the exciting part and can't finish the rest of the grun work..on the other hand, since I don't have this issue...it does give me lots of jobs....hey...hrm...ok YOU should be a programmer!

Seriously..most of what you described fits just about everyone. None of us want to do boring stuff - and ignore the people telling you this is a sign of intelligenceor some other crap.
If you find a job that is 100% engaging all the time, you should probably write a book about it because it doesn't exist. Also, if you've got intelligence, but don't use it - well, that just makes you a loser. DO you need a 4.0? Nope - do you need over a 3.0 - if not, well, yah, you got a problem, especially if you COULD get over that. From your text, it seems like you're more than a little lazy and are more interested in the easy way out. If you're looking for an answer to how to do that..that would be welfare.

Positioning

[carrier lost]

I tink it's kind of funny that this topic (Uniquely Bright) is rignt before "Dog Trained on 200 Word Vocabulary"

MjM

Intelligence, Genius, Work, Passion

[HarryLeBlanc]

The thing that separates intelligence and genius is a lot of disciplined, tiring, rigorous work.

No! Work is what turns intelligence into success. Genius is not simply more intelligence, it is radically different intelligence. Intelligence lets you learn Newton's laws. Genius let Einstein improve them.

This is not to knock work. Whether you have genius (and if you do, I really pity you) or just plain intelligence, you'll still need to work at something to earn the greenbacks you need to survive. So find where your passion is -- and this might not be the thing you're best at. When you have passion, when you love something, you can devote the kind of hours that lead to success without it feeling like work.

If you're truly as gifted as you imply, then work on your favorite gift. Even if you're "better" at (say) physics than music, if you're already devoting six hours a day to playing and practicing music, you'll never cut it as a physicist. But what glorious music you'll make!

If you work at what you're merely good at, because others want to give you money for it, you'll be miserable. I know whereof I speak.

Re:Intelligence, Genius, Work, Passion

[cgenman]

If you're truly as gifted as you imply, then work on your favorite gift. Even if you're "better" at (say) physics than music, if you're already devoting six hours a day to playing and practicing music, you'll never cut it as a physicist. But what glorious music you'll make!

If you work at what you're merely good at, because others want to give you money for it, you'll be miserable. I know whereof I speak.

Yes, I should have added that I'm a game developer. But even working at your "gift" requires dedication. Even musicians have trouble getting out of bed in the morning after a month of playing double-headers and hopping on planes.

And while we're on the subject of modifying above posts, while you are in college take the "introduction to" courses of EVERYTHING your college offers, one per quarter. This includes introduction to German, introduction to electrical engineering, introduction to folkdance, intro to art history, psychology, computing, education, ballet, wildlife preservation, quantum physics, etc. Likely you will find things that you didn't know existed, interests that you didn't know you had, and friends that you wouldn't have otherwise met. And as a bonus, most intro courses are so easy that they don't add significantly to your workload, letting you take 20 units per quarter and letting you leave college when YOU want to.

Prediction:

[roman_mir]

you will learn that having good friends in life counts for something, not having any friends sucks and having people who love you for what you are is precious.

Most likely you will have a moderately succesful life but nothing out of proportions. You will satisfy your craving for the one thing that you enjoy most within 5-7 years from now and then you will be looking for meaning of life again. You will get yourself into a hard position (financially) within the same time frame and will learn to do just fine with some bare minimum and (that is 6-8 years from now.) You will have started a few (2-4) projects within 5-6 years from now that you will be proud of in the beginning but you will be very lucky to finish 1 of them 1-2 years after you start and it will not help you financially but will distruct you from the reality of life and will provide some sort of pride probably and some form of satisfaction. 7-8 years from now you will find yourself in a position where you will learn something about alternative life choices *maybe you will learn to curve wood or smth. like that* and you will be looking forward to the time when you could finally enjoy that form of activity.

In any case, if you do grow wise, you will be content within yourself and will not need approval of a /. croud, nor will you seek it any longer.

If you do not grow wise, you will probably try and become a manager in an IT department and will learn to not notice people around you and will be loathed by some of your former colleagues for being an a-hole.

Good luck.

You live in a boring society

[Anonymous Coward]

Foster revolution, maybe change will occur so that smart people can reign. As far as your message, it will come across as pompous to those who seek revenge...

Easy...

[checkyoulater]

Start taking drugs. Of course, which drugs you decide to take will depend on your financial situation. As you know, the good ones cost a lot more than the bad ones. But who knows, maybe you'll like drugs so much that there won't really be any bad ones.

Meaning of life and other crap

[RKEM]

A few things I've come to realize after many bottles of antidepressants and psycotherapy to understand why I felt like a faillure with a Masters Degree and a very well paying job. - Life has no meaning - You only get one life - All humans are basically selfish ... this is essential to their survival - Success is meaningless Basically it comes down to this : life for yourself, live as a selfish asshole, putting your needs and what you like AHEAD of what others expect of you. As long as you do things because it is what people expected of you or to please others, you'll feel like something is missing. Who cares if you're "uniquely bright" or whatever else you like to call it in order to repress your inferiority complex. In the end, will it make you "special" when you die. Do you think there is a special heaven for people with 130+ IQ? Nope. You'll still die like everybody else. Stop wasting your time trying to impress the rest of the planet by finding what will make you unique and special. Just life for yourself. Do what you like, do what makes you happy. Maybe this way once you're on your deathbed you won't have too much to regret.

It's about People

[DrPlutoMadre]

People are a lot more complicated than technical problems. If you can, and especially if you need to, learn to understand people. Almost no one accomplishes anything alone, with a few exceptions -- but those are very few. If you can learn to understand, get a long with, and possibly even lead your fellow man and be highly productive doing so, that is a worthwhile achievement in itself. On the other hand, crunching code or twiddling bits or trying to resolve relativistic and quantum physics might be fun or gratifying, but most of us aren't going to get long-term, deep satisfaction (or make a living) from it.

sounds like you're screwed.

[makoffee]

Go to school if you'd like to become institutionalized, and heaped up with more debt than you've ever known. If you're lucky, you'll find a job you hate, a wife who will devorce you once you hit 40, and all crap that goes along with that.
The other option is to no not inroll in a school, get high all the time, and watch your life burn out before your own eyes. With any luck, you'll still have the devorce and debt.

Sounds more like the begining of the end to me.

Point is, you sound like every other person I've ever talked to. "I'm so smart, but I don't like to work hard, and I don't know what to do with my life"

sorry kid.

btw, how did this crap ever get posted.

Two words, self employment.

[snarkasaurus]

If you think school is a joke, just wait until you get into the business world. Your brain will shrivel from the stunning stupidity on parade in any business that employs more than 50 people, whether it makes money or not.

This is also true in medicine, in case you were thinking of that escape route. It is actually worse in medicine, because the stupidity gets patients killed. Ask anybody who has ever worked in a hospital, even if only as a garbage man. They will have a story, guaranteed.

The single escape is SELF EMPLOYMENT. Start something up and make it go. Not only will it test your resolve, self discipline and intelligence, it will humble you.

The thing to remember is that your business will eventually be as full of stunning stupidity as every other one out there, and will suck to work in just like they do. Except for you, because you will the one organizing everything to conform to how you want it, and all the other poor schlubs will have to put up with it.

Smart counts for almost nothing out there kid. What counts is the guts you bring to the job, not how beautiful your thoughts are. Where being smart comes in is finding a faster/cheaper/better way of doing whatever it is you decided to do, whether it be making cookies or chasing electrons.

Here's something else. What you do does not make you better than anyone else. There's a guy in Florida who makes as much money every year as a brain surgeon. He collects golf balls out of ponds and sells them. That's it. He's just as worthy, useful and successful a guy as any brain surgeon I know (and I know a few!), and he doesn't give himself airs like they do.

Go to school, get that 4.0 you think you deserve but can't be bothered to work for, and that will be a good start to getting on in life. Any fool can get a 4.0 average just the same as any fool can collect golf balls. The part of the equation you are missing right now is GUTS. Guts is what makes a 7 figure income out of golf ball collecting, and guts is what takes an average intellect to a 4.0 gpa.

They don't come with the package, you have to grow your own.

Re:Is this guy serious? (ot ot)

[Anonymous Coward]

If it was spot-on it wouldn't be funny. :)

The in-group out-group distinction in the bible is significant. The only people that God gives a damn about in the old testament are the children of Israel. Everyone else exists to be smited like animals. Not that the children of Israel aren't abused themselves, but they are the chosen golden people, and everyone else is insignificant. This distinction is the root of all racism. Many of the Europeans and Americans who take this to extremes impose their own viewpoint on the situtation and suddenly magically all of the chosen people in Egypt look like Russian Jews instead of, well, Egyptians.

So yes, the bible is full of racism, hatred, the slaughter of children, etc. Was it Ezekial who called on the power of god to maul to death a group of children making fun of his nose, or was it Issac? I can never keep the names straight.

Get a job, a wife and a house

[Anonymous Coward]

That'll knock the fight right out of you.

you're in trouble

[Anonymous Coward]

You're 'unusually' smart, but are not doing that well in school? You've got a problem.

Once you get through college, you'll find that intelligence alone does not inevitably lead to success (defined however). You'll see plenty of people of average intelligence who are extraordinarily successful, because they work hard or have other talents. You'll also see plenty of extremely smart people who are not successful at all, and are unhappy, because they lack the skills and motivation to apply those smarts in any productive capacity.

You may be very intelligent, but you sound lazy and full of yourself (e.g. you have "unlimited" attention span only when the material interests you, and you seem unconcerned by the fact that your grades are lower than they 'should' be). You need to find a way to motivate yourself when the work isn't the most compelling, but must be done anyhow. Other people will be relying on you, and you'll undoubtedly be starting at the bottom of any organization you join.

As an employer, I would prefer an employee who was highly motivated and thorough but of average intelligence to one who was a genius but was lazy or arrogant.

Finally, there are *lots* of super-smart people out there in the world. Got to a top grad school in any rigorous discipline and you'll likely be humbled.

.... just starting college ...

[malachid69]

I completely understand where you are coming from. I had the same problem. I even left high school a year early (CA high school proficiency exam) because I was tired of what I thought of as a day care.

I really enjoyed college (and miss it), though I think it had no impact on my career. People rarely even ask what my degree is in -- but instead only care that I have completed something.

However, if you are going to go to college, I do have a recommendation. Always remember that red tape is there to slow you down, not stop you.

As an example, when I started there, only students were allowed to attend student run events. We convinced the school to let us invite the community, and we did better than any of the college-sponsored events. We did well enough that for the 6 years following that, the school contributed cash for us to host it. And the last 2 of those years, I wasn't even there anymore.

Another example is that when I started there, students were not allowed unix or email access. Not only did we get that changed, but our club took over management of the Technology Resource fees, so that students had more say in where there money went.

As a last example, the school doesn't even offer the degree I got from them. They originally said that I had to choose one of their standard degrees. Then, I found out about the Interdisciplinary program (usually for combos like Business and Computers). I convinced them to let me do a combination of Computers, Psychology and Writing (with a minor in Photography). They had no clue how to proceed with that -- so I convinced them to let me choose what classes were required for my degree.

Long story short -- don't be bullied by red tape. You are paying for your education -- get what YOU want out of it.

Learn Sales

[Ridgelift]

Learn Sales. Geeks tend to have difficulty with the whole salesman game, but without sales there is no business.

I used to be a typical techno geek. I also used to detect salesmen, seeing them all as lying, cheating scum. Then I started my own business, and nearly went bankrupt because I was great at fixing computer and software problems, but I didn't have any customers because I coudn't SELL people on the fact I was great at fixing THEIR computer problems.

So go to school, learn the mechanics of business, but on the side run a small business or take a sales job that doesn't rely on your intelligence but rather on your ability to sell.

Correct!

[HeaththeGreat]

I couldn't agree more.

I'm guessing by this guy's definition, I would also qualify as nontraditionally bright, the difference though, is that while I was probably one of the 2 smartest guys in my high school, it didn't mean crap because I didn't have the work ethic to back it up.

Rather than measuring your intelligence, measure your worth. That is, intelligence * work ethic = worth.

I tend to think while I was within the top 1% in my school in terms of intelligence, but class rank places me in the correct place in terms of worth. I had very little work ethic and did just enough to get by (top 5%).

That attitude carried over into College. lds is right. I probably should have gone to a better College. I went the extra mile in most of my CS classes because I enjoyed the subject material so much, but in all the other classes, I got B's and C's because they were just getting in the way of my CS.

I'm not trying to say that your HS rank determines your worth. I'd say your worth is determined by the amount you get done. My worth just happens to correlate with my class rank, but in HS and college I really got next to nothing done outside of the bare minimum required by my teachers/professors.

It wasn't until my senior year in college when I got a job that utilized my CS skills that I finally started getting stuff accomplished.

Its not your intelligence that matters, its what you do with it.

Re:Good Luck Meat Puppet...

[smurfnsanta]

And the point of my post? There is none, just like there's no point in life.

I'm too skeptical to buy that. Just because the meaning of life isn't currently objectively quantifiable there's no point to it? What if the essential muck that makes up your consciousness isn't, or actually can't be obliterated?

Religious idiocy aside, I've had an NDE, and let me tell ya you're in for quite an interesting surprise. I don't claim to know what the quintessential point to the whole joke is, but there does seem to be one.

the little things count

[michaelbuddy]

Yeah yeah yeah, we're all destined for bigger things. High School is a joke, college is a festival. whatever. Did you all ever think that, maybe this useless life with no meaning where some people are lucky is actually a test? Maybe that everyone is tested in different ways. Some are doomed to have to work hard 6 days a week at a factory, without being creative. Some are creative that are born crippled. Some are blessed with big brains and cursed with the unhappiness that everyone around them is keeping them down. We all have these problems. But what really seems to matter in my experience is the little things you've done for people. The notes you've given friends, the times you've endured a little suffering to benefit someone else. When you were polite and friendly to a stranger for no reason at all.

This test, you might fail. you might not overcome what was given to you as your life problems. You might think, the world is full of useless bags of crap and I think I'll commit suicide to rid myself of it. well, you failed buddy. You didn't try to see the connectedness of you and your ignorant poor filthy brethren.

had you smiled, and helped that retched homeless person, instead of laughing at them, maybe you wouldn't feel like such a genius. you'd see where you little contributions is what people care about in this world.

Umm, no.

[Anonymous Coward]

Listen ... doing what the parent post says may sound nice. Maybe it'll be fun to do for one summer.

BUT YOU WONT BE ABLE TO FIND A JOB AFTERWARDS.

Listen to me very carefully on this

More often than not, your late teens and mid twenties is the defining time of your life.

This is the time where you determine what path your life is going to be taking. You have to think long term and what kind of a job you want to do. Read up everything on the type of jobs you think you would enjoy .. then look up job ads (monster.com ? ) for these jobs ..see what's needed and get on that track.

As for school .. I recommend very strongly that you work while in school .. preferably your own business .. this could range from being a tutor to selling/fixing homebuilt computers.

If your major is engineering, it doesnt sound like you have the will to put in the required hard work (lots of math homework!). This is why I recommend you work or intern somewhere ..this will be a backup in case you fail out or get a low GPA. Luckily for many IT jobs degree is less important than experience. Some want to see that you have the discipline to finish a degree, so you may want to consider an "easy" major like government or international relations ..maybe even MIS or CIS.

I cant stress this enough ..get work experience!!

If nobody hires you while in college contribute to open source projects .. this could be anything from linux to even wikipedia.

Also, beware of advise from people who got successful by luck or by doing things they are particularly good at. Speak to people that failed and find out what went wrong .. BUT be extrememly careful not to get any cynicism and pessimism..you must maintain your positive outlook.

Good luck .. and remember ..if there's a will there's a way.

-Johan

Re:Umm, no.

[6]

The above comment does tell me where the drab and dreary people come from.

The poster is right though. You need to decide, and fairly soon, what is important to you. If getting a job ie any job is the most important thing in your life then the above poster is spot on.

If there is something else, then different advice may apply.

Plan,Live, Balance, and trust your gut!

[moorley]

College is just an institution. It's easy to walk into cliche space with any advice but the best advice I can give as I sit on the precipice of 30 is to devise your own plan and stick with it.

Or realize you have no "plan" as such and pick some areas you want to know more about. Whether it's bridge engineering, Inca history, or pearl diving, you know what you want to do. At 18 you have enough life history to know yourself and what you're interests are. Don't let *ANYTHING* stand in the way of delving into those interests. You will find people, mates and friends that share those interests and make your life AMAZING!

If you are going into college, find a college that speaks to those interests. Find PEOPLE that live and know those interests; Buy them a cup of coffee and learn from them when you can. If you don't know what those interests are then be honest and find a way to explore them. Whether that's traveling or throwing darts at a dewey decimal chart and picking a destination based on that.

Nothing has to happen at a certain time, you just have to be willing to explore it when you find it. The rest will figure it out on its own. When you're ready to settle down, you'll know it. A recent study shows emotions are a quick path to decision making, no emotion equates to the inability to make decisions quickly and effectively. Use that gut instinct, it will serve you well.

And if you never live in the mainstream, you'll define it for yourself. If the way you live is truly amazing the mainstream will come to you.

One cool but slightly dated book is Making a Living without a Job but all I can say is don't feel trapped. If you have an interest in something there is a niche that you can make a living at it. Granted, when you juggle in living in a particular place, a family or a particular lifestyle it will get more difficult but you don't have to drudge your life away!

We're just a bunch folks trying to be as happy as we can, we just tend to get a little confused on the way. We don't always see things through the eyes of the other guy/gal.

Intelligence will give you "depth" but it's not an end all beat all. You will see "more" but you still have the same life and spiritual hurdles we all do. It's up to you, as everyone, to use the gifts you have to the best of your advantage. Try to find the humour of a situation. Your intelligence gives you the best seat to the show, but not an all access stage pass but don't despair over it. Learn to enjoy the view!

Nothing else I can think of say in less than pages and hours so...

Good Journey!!!!

Good Engineer turned Managers get over this

[snatchitup]

Just my two cents, but, the one thing about growing up that happened to me, is that I got over myself. My testosterone levels are extremely high, so this took into my mid-30's for it to happen. I just couldn't accept that somebody was better, or smarter than me.

I've moved on to management, as well, because I'm able to motivate others to do their best, and try to impress me, not the other way around. I'm past that, "I need to be validated as an incredibly smart individual..."

One fun thing to do in business, is look at all the male managers and determine whom of the other managers have also gotten over themselves as well. And, watch the differences in success.

Also, letting you all in on a little secret.

The reason you see so many females going into management, earlier on than males, is because of their lack of testosterone. It can really get in the way of a team doing well.

This is really a shame, because, too many female (and often non-technical) people are in charge of technical people. Who gets all the credit? Who eventually becomes more wealthy.

No, better to work for a completely technically competitent manager who has nothing to prove, but, can help your own career.

My advice to the young men. Enjoy being king of the world. Get lots of pussy. This is easy to do in business, or acedemics.

Realize that after 30, you'll calm down, and start playing more golf. Best of all, it gets even easier to pick up young chicks.

Re:Good Engineer turned Managers get over this

[cyfan2000]

I had to laugh at your last line. I barely could get a 25 year old when I WAS 25. Now I have one and I'm 35! LOL

Sorry, society rewards the "traditionally bright"

[aquarian]

...and those able to remain committed and finish things, in the traditional way. Grow up.

Don't expect anyone to care / give you recognition

[AtlanticCarbon]

That's my advice. People won't care if you are smart unless it brings them something (e.g., money, entertainment, etc). And intelligence isn't the fastest way to get people money IMO (a lot of other skills are required) so in the any you may make friends because they value your intelligence but beyond that don't expect recognition.

College is what you make of it

[VonGuard]

Remember, about 90% of all college classes (not including labs and so forth) are going to involve reading, then coming to class and listening to someone read. For this reason, if your attention span is so vast when intrigued, I'd suggest skipping college all together, getting a job, and reading text books on your own.

It's a hell of a lot cheaper, and you'll learn the same things you'd learn at a $30,000 a year college,

After about 6 years of working, people stop caring if you have a degree in whatever field it is yer in.

The Wisdom of Laotse

[slicenglide]

One who says he knows the Tao; does not know the way of the Tao.

Bizarre coincidences

[freejung]

I even stayed in Cabinas Tesoro

Wow, that's amazing! Small world, eh? That's really weird.

I get the feeling there is a bunch totally crazy shit going on just below the surface

You ain't just whistlin' Dixie! Boy, could I tell you some stories. I met more international fugitives down there than I can count on both hands. I knew people who had connections with the Columbian cartels, people who have been international drug runners, I even met the former foreign minister of Sandanista Nicaragua. Good friend of mine, actually. All kinds of weird shit is going on down there. And I didn't remotely get to the bottom of it, either.

Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it. You just made yourself a friend!

love and blessings,

freejung

Give up on School

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had the same problem.
And regarding the comment at the bottom, I'm very conclusively an INFP.

Unfortunately, I can't give you any real help except to say that the comments for you to get over yourself are unfounded. As always, they don't understand you.

I have never enjoyed school, even when proving teachers wrong. I think I finished middle school with a 2.1. Thankfully, I went to a private high school, and that was better. I am now a student at Georgia Tech, and I am again bored out of my mind.

The best advice I can give you is to keep learning on your own. If you feel that you need a school to help give you direction, DO NOT go to Georgia Tech. The education system in this country was not designed for you and me. It was designed to educate the average. Since it's inception, facilities have arisen to educate those on the wrong side of the bell curve because no one wants the stupid people to have to feel stupid, and no one wants retarted people to have to live as second-class citizens. However, very little exists now for people who are above average. And basically nothing for the Gifted. Private school helps; Mensa exists; the Duke TIP program happens, but...it still only identifies those above average at standardized tests, not the truely gifted. (Believe me, I've been there...the people there are nothing special.)

OK...Non iligitimi cabarundum est (don't let the bastards grind you down).

(Oh yeah, and i've been doing abstract math since i was 9, but i never learned how to spell).

bright bulb.

[packrat2]

well, I'm the only person i know who has taught themselves to ride a bike... and almost read. ( they had to tell me what the new words were.) same old, thou. Good marks if i was interested... and failing grades if you couldn't convince me that 'a mark for the question, each step and the answer meant 80% for a wrong answer' was the correct thing to do. I attended university, psy/law/general arts... walked in with corrections to the text in second week. type of student. Had forgotten the course by the end of it. What would I've done differently?...... people are the problem and the answer. You want bucks, find the people first, then work on something. I did the opposite and starve. pat

arrogance and investment

[tunesmith]

God, what a bunch of horrible advice. Questioner, your only mistake here was asking advice of the slashdot crowd. When they are telling you that you are arrogant, they are saying that they are insecure. I know a lot of non-geek friends, and they are free with compliments and never seem to feel the urge to take someone down a peg, and it's because they are well-adjusted human beings.

Fact is, if you're entering college and you're good at linux, you're pretty damn smart.

You've got a great thinking style. I think that folks like you *appear* to be breadth-first thinkers instead of depth-first thinkers only because you're continually scanning to find the thing that will fascinate you in the long term. You just haven't found it yet. That's ok, you're young.

So get yourself into college, delay declaring your major as long as possible, and take electives. Scan, scan, scan.

What's nice about someone who gets fascinated about things is that eventually things will fall in line. Life is like compound interest that way - you continually make little deposits in the bank, that all seem insignificant by themselves, and then one day, wham, you realize you've hit critical mass and you start getting a significant return on your earlier investments.

So follow your nose, or your gut, or whatever. Do what interests you even if it doesn't make any sense. If it is fascinating and requires effort (and isn't sitting on your ass watching tv), it'll end up being worthwhile even if you can't identify exactly how at first.

In a related effort, START MAXING OUR YOUR IRA. NOW. If you don't need to work, work enough to earn your $3k/year and put it all in your Roth. No matter how stupid it seems now, you will consider yourself a frigging genius in ten years. Any reason not to do so will seem completely stupid and selfish in ten years. I'm telling you, starting now and maxing out only for ten years will probably get you MORE money than starting in ten years and doing it for the rest of your life.

Most of what people have said so far is too narrow

[divisionbyzero]

First of all, getting over yourself isn't your biggest problem. Meeting people that are truly your peers or even superior to yourself will happen and you will naturally understand that there are many kinds of intelligence and intelligence isn't the most important thing in the world.

Treating yourself as nothing special, as one person suggested, is just not honest, and it sounds like that person is still dealing with the disappointment of not being the smartest person he knows. Look around; it's a fact; there are people that are smarter than almost everyone else. You may be one of them. In that sense you may be special, however, intelligence in whatever form isn't necessarily the most important thing. Just remember, you may be wrong at any time and the truth can come from any source, even from someone less talented than yourself.

I have mixed feelings about college. I went to one of the better colleges in the country. I met a FEW interesting people. Most of them were fellow students. Almost all of the professors were a waste of time. But that may have had more to do with me than them. The real value of college is being able to try different things in order to find out what you like and what you are good at doing without worrying about where your next meal will come from if you screw up.

Was it worth $140,000? (I paid for my own education with loans and scholarships, etc.) Probably not. I could have spent that money on travel or doing a lot of other things for four years. However if you want to do something technical, your options may be more limited. I do work in technology and my degree is not a technical degree but I'm not sure how common that is. Anyhow, it did get me to where I wanted to be, but I probably could have done it for cheaper by going to a less prestigious college or in some other way or by going to a more prestigious college for a similar cost. Like any solution to a problem college has its trade-offs and it depends on your immediate circumstances, but college is not totally useless.

What you really need to do is figure out what you want out of life. How you do it is really up to you. You can do it in college, by traveling, or by starting your own business. Experiment. Follow your passion. Only experience will tell you what you enjoy. Guiding yourself through life has more to do with developing taste (in the broadest sense) than using your brain to figure out a determinate solution to a fixed problem.

You may end up being less monetarily successful than your peers (and that may matter more than you think when you want to start a family), but you may be more personally successful, assuming acquiring money does not equal being sucessful to you. However, if you want maximize your chances of doing well monetarily, then you have to go to college. In today's world, college doesn't guarantee you anything, but it's not a bad place to figure out what you want to do and it does increase your chances of doing well monetarily, assuming that matters to you.

Remember there is no right answer. I know it sounds trite, but there are only better and worse answers. You are not a machine designed for a single purpose. We all have multiple "purposes" or callings or whatever you want to call them, and fulfilling as many of them as you can as completely as you can is a challenge.

You're DEAD

[Anonymous Coward]

Every single day of my entire public school imprisonment I sat in my chair, staring out the window, or staring at a wall. I blanked out much of what they were babbling about. I didn't want to be there and nearly didn't graduate high school. I was one of the lowest ranked in my class and I had to take night school, as well as a special class during the day that would let me make up a years worth of credits in 1 trimester.

After high school I tried some community college and found a bunch of suck up idiots who were begging for the egotistical teachers to infect the class with their obvious personal agendas and pass it off as education.

Careers are for mindless zombies. My father started off with creative intentions, but soon found himself in an engineering position where he spent the rest of his life whoring himself for his boss(master). Everyone says that this is what has to happen and that 20 year olds are just filled with unrealistic fantasy about not becoming another zombie.

After dedicating his life to the biddings of his master, and finally reaching the later years of existence, my dad flipped out. He originally was working in order to feed his life, but somehow that got switched around, and then a huge span of his life just disappeared instantaneously. He suddenly found himself an old man who accomplished very little in terms of personal fulfillment. When I say my dad flipped out, I really mean it.

Don't make the same mistake he did.

Don't for a second trust the fantasy that we will live to be old and will enjoy good health along the way. Time accelerates the longer you're alive, the age of 50 might sound far away but I promise you that you will be 50 *tomorrow*.

My advice to anyone who has all their needs met, are somewhat intelligent, and are lost, just wasting time because they don't know what to do is this.... 'accidently' walk out into the middle of the freeway. If you're lucky you will feel a sudden impact, will see flashes of slow-motion terror, and will awaken with a mask over your mouth in the back of an ambulance. The sooner you realize that you are going to die the sooner you will shut the fuck up and stop asking stupid questions on slashdot.

I say forget it all. Forget the system, the resumes, the career, the corporate ladder, the fast food chains, the loads of cash, the bitches, the political assholes, the marketing vultures, the drugs, the gossip, the television, the culture......... Forget it all.

Figure out how you can get your basic necessities to life met painlessly in a way that leaves a large amount of excess energy/resources available to you. Then shut everything out and look into the horizon.

Ask yourself what YOU want to do, and then do it. If you don't, and you listen to others, then you will get trapped in the system and wake up one day realizing that you wasted your entire life on unfulfilling nonsense.

P.S. - You might not even see this. Why? Because slashdots system is shit. I prefer to post Anonymously because I don't want credit for my words. But when I do, no one mods me up and no one sees my words. That's because this place is rigged just like every other system. People create little cliques and help out their friends, but punnish the nomadic wanderers who wan't to contribute but not join their stupid lil club and learn the secret handshake. One other thing I learned is that if you mention being modded up, like, "Don't mod this up", or "But no one will see this since I know no one will mod it up", then it instantly hits 4 or 5. Well that's not why I'm saying this, so fuck you and your predictable ways. People should be given the floor when they have something worthwhile to say, and many of those posts are missed... THAT is why this system is severely flawed.

Dear Anonymous

[EdMcMan]

A lot of what you wrote was basically like a biography for myself. I found it a little bit disturbing. I do have some good news for you though.

As far as loving learning but hating school, I was the same way in K-12. College is different, and I enjoy it a great deal more. The pace of learning doubles, and you don't get much busy work. Most of the work you do is mandatory for you to learn the material.

Another thing that I thought was fairly unique with me was my growing bored of projects after a few months. But, I see that I am not alone. When I was younger, my interests changed every few months after I grew bored (or mastered) something. When I got on my first computer, I fell in love.

'Computers' is so broad that I never get bored. I can get bored with individual things, but I don't see how I could get bored with everything. I do have trouble working on programming projects for over a few months, though. I think it may be a bit of perfectionism. I have to improve the old code before working on new code, which makes it gets old real quick.

Anyway, I am majoring in Computer Science and while "learning" some things is very boring since I know them, I know that this is the right field for me due to its broadness.

So, as for tips, I'd simply suggest choosing a field that is broad. For me, it was computers. It probably could easily be for you as well (seeing this is /. after all), but keep looking for something that holds your interest over time. If you are unsure when going into college, start as undeclared and take as many different classes as possible.

Good luck!

A FEW RULES THAT HAVE WORKED LONGTERM

[cathouse]

No. 1 is that if you're not having fun you are doing something very wrong. [This requires a far more
flexable concept of 'fun' than usual]

No. 2 is that money is not a problem. Lack of money CAN be a problem if you let it, but you don't have to
let it. [If you really ARE moderately bright and able to look at your local reality clearly you will find
plenty of ways to generate more than enough income to keep yourself free from the rat-race. Case in point: Cdr Taco and Slashdot Having HIS
kind of fun and spinning off what his picture tells me is at least enough to keep him supplied with
all the latest and best toys. def: toy as per 'fun' supra]

No. 3 is that no matter how many wise fools tell you that you can't save the world and not to waste your time and energy trying to
if you look at the people in your world with clear eyes, you WILL see yourself mirrored in pain with only a different face and name, And that's
a world that you CAN save if you're sharp enough and willing to work at it.

No. 4 is a combo of 'When it's time to AIRPLANE, everyone's going to AIRPLANE' and ' If it looks like a Duck, walks like a Duck and quacks
like a Duck Yeah, it might be a Virtual Duck or a Duckvestite, BUT IT JUST MIGHT BE A DUCK!'
Don't get so hung up on your own brilliant insight and wonderfulnuss that you ignore or deny what's actually happening around you.

What to do to realize your real potential

[Anonymous Coward]

Get the basics down first.get the degree. All that a degree tells the world is that you can accept a small amount of discipline and can learn.

Is your light shining so brightly that a prospective employer can see it without the roadmap of a degree from an institution of higher learning? Believe me, most HR directors DO NOT give a crap if they hire a less capable individual who has a degree over some one who is a genius. They prefer to do so because they actually have little talent in evaluating people.
The degree provides a CYA for the HR person.
It used to be that alternate paths to education had to be evaluated in cutting edge areas of technology. NO MORE. Every podunk school offers a degree program in some form of technical, scientific or engineering education. Unless you have the degree or are wildly successful, you will not be considered to be in the mainstream of science or commerce.

You could be an eccentric inventor and get fame and fortune, you could run your own business, you could be an alternate success. But those are few and far between.

Understanding

[Anonymous Coward]

Two good sources:

"A Mind at a Time" by Mel Levine

Time Magazine issue on teanage brains.

Best of luck,
Duratkin

research at a good university

[viperstyx]

you sound a lot like me. i didnt like high school as far as academics went. it bored me. there was too much bs work. so i skimped on things like homework which dragged my grades down but i proved in tests that i knew the information as good as our valedictorian.

i was pretty lost just as you seem to be so i just took the traditional route and headed off to college [carnegie mellon]. at first i thought i made a big mistake as college turned out to be a lot like high school as far as pure academics went. however, ive just finished my first year at cmu and i cant be happier. the key is research. because i came to cmu ive had so many opportunities to do research in fields i want to learn more about. im doing working at the intel robotics research lab here in pittsburgh and im working with red team. classes are still pretty boring but its a small price to pay to get to all this exciting work.

so moral of the story? if you can get yourself in a good university for your interests you'll definately be happy. just dont live off campus you first year ; )

I was hoping for gold to fall out of the sky.

[sideshow]

But it ain't going to happen.

I personally think Dawkin's and your quest is hillarious. The only way make your smug arrogence any more transparent would be to use genius, or perhaps intellectual as the name of your group.

Hostile Response?

[runamok1]

When I read this post, I thought it was a valid question. And then a bunch of posts ensued that said "you're not special", "why are you such hot $%!#", etc.

To me, this guy loves to learn but has not had that much success in a teacher/student teaching environment.

I have to admit the same of myself. I did not enjoy being taught in a lecture environment (Feel free to insult my intelligence). But I read voraciously and have interests in many directions.

I think we can *assume* that most of the people that read and/or post to slashdot are not complete mouth-breathers, so I was surprised at the kind of response this poster got.

Anyone want to give this poster some tips on how to be interested in taught material, etc. so as to get that degree which is all-important as opposed to belittling and challenging his image of themself??

Sorry

[Anonymous Coward]

By asking /. you've shown you're not smart enough to join the Club of the Really Intelligent. We'll be keeping your application on file in case you later stumble across the proper method.

Stop thinking of yourself as "bright"

[Skeezix]

I'm serious. Maybe in your high school that is how you've been branded: as the "smart one." I know what that's like: I was valedictorian and received all kinds of awards for math and science. I hated the branding, though. College changed all that. I went to a good school where I was surrounded by pepole much smarter than myself. But no one cared. We did our work, made friendships, and socialized.

So to summarize, stop thinking of yourself as "uniquely bright," whatever that means. Go to a college or university and develop a social life. Chances are good that no one will really care about your merits in highschool or what your IQ is. It's time to grow up and live real life. High school is not real life.

Behavioral Optometry

[bbame]

First: ignore the negative comments. They aren't useful.

I've read various posts about being an INTP and that sort of thing, and I think I read one about Edison Trait learning (though you might want to do a web search if you don't know what that is). So I'll suggest that you find a behavioral optometrist and be evaluated. Here's a web site if you're interested...

PAVE

Both of my daughters (one sounds a lot like you!) have benifitted from this.

We (as parents) learned about behavioral optometry from the Gifted Development Center, so you might want to check them out as well...

Gifted Development Center

There's also plenty of information about "visual spatial" learners there.

One more thing: I would strongly suggest that you read _The Career Guide for Creative and Unconventional People_ by Carol Eikleberry - great stuff!

stuff I wish someone had told me.

[fred fleenblat]

1. do not drink, smoke pot, or hang out with other people who do such things. take it easy on caffeine too. bright but directionless people can get very non-linear when their brains are exposed to chemicals. don't do it, you'll be extraordinarilty sorry. I was.

2. find an area of study that has some microcosm-like aspects to it, so that if you get obsessed with it, you still might learn enough to be a useful and productive member of society. For example, if you really get into law or business you'll still be able to deal with "normal" people at some point. If you study astronomy or music for 4 or 6 years you'll only be able to talk to other people who are into those topics and they will probably find you somewhat boring.

3. get a girlfriend. she will dump you. get another one. she will dump you. get another one. you sound like someone who is going to need something to hold his life together, and picking a field in college isn't going to be enough. work on intimacy, trust, love, and how to deal with heartbreak. eventually you may reach a stable relationship and it won't seem to important to be super "intense" and "focused". you might have some kids, buy a house in the suburbs and commute to work in a Honda. It's okay, lots of people do it, and you can still be unique in a way that matters, even if you're normal in ways that don't.

4. accept different levels of expertise from yourself and others in different areas. some people don't know anything about anything but they are still fun to talk to. some people are total geniuses about everything and are still fun to talk to.

5. find some uninteresting way to make money. be a landlord. day trade stocks. be a tax advisor. you'll need money in the future and it's nice to be able to just make money without having the process tied up in your ego drive for knowledge.

Actually now that I think about it, I think people did tell me these things, I was just not listening...

Does 'EQ' mean anything to you?

[mikelang]

Your personality: emotions and motivations are much more important than brightness.
As you are bright you can more easily learn how to handle them. So develop them a lot.
They are the key to success or at least a happy life.

Where the forest is darkest and there is no path

[Anonymous Coward]

I had an experience very much like yours - a bright kid, an underachiever, dreaming of success but never quite attaining it. I'm an INTP, too. (Hi, guys. Nice to see so many of you here.) There's been a lot of good advice given here so far, and a lot of people have responded out of bitterness or spite. A wise man once said that there is at least 1% of truth in every statement, so do listen for the truth in these threads, but don't take any of it too much to heart.

I'll add some words of my own here, perhaps just out of vanity. Perhaps you'll find them useful.

1. Decide now whether you're okay with being mediocre the rest of your life. If mediocrity is your goal, then coasting on your natural abilities will get you there and keep you there, and you can survive just fine as a mediocre citizen. If, however, what you really want is to distinguish yourself and to contribute something unique to the world, start getting used to the idea right now that you're going to have to work your ass off. You're going to have to work far beyond your comfort zone, and not be content with achieving only what most people will tell you is acceptable. You know bettter. You know you can achieve more. The lazy way you've been operating up 'till now can not continue; it will not be acceptable if you want to be a better you.

Genius is no guarantee of success, and stupidity is no guarantee of failure. The difference in almost every case is how much hard work and sacrifice you're prepared to put in to achieve your goals. I had people telling me my whole life how brilliant I was and how much of a success I would be, but I never really achieved the kind of success they described. I'm proud of what I've done and of who I am, but I'm not a famous actor and writer, winning Oscars and Tonys left and right. That kind of success takes a level of self-examination and courage I never sought to muster. I believed my own press clippings and that was the death of my career.

Don't believe people who tell you you'll be successful because you're clever or because you do clever things. These people do not understand success. There's no clever way to win a marathon. You simply have to be willing to endure more.

2. If you have trouble staying focused, then surround yourself with people who inspire you. Be responsible to someone. Surround yourself with people who won't let you off the hook.

3. Make your own way. Your path is your own, and no one can tell you where it is or how to traverse it. To understand this, read anything you can get your hands on by Joseph Campbell - watch his videos if you can find them at your local library. He talks of the legend of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. When they embarked on their quest for the Holy Grail, "each entered the forest where they could see that it was the darkest, and there was no way or path." To achieve the Grail, you need to decide where to enter the forest, and you have to choose the place to enter that is the most challenging for you.

4. Make sure you can answer the question, "What do I want?" Ask this question often and answer it honestly. Seems simple enough, but in our early lives what we want is often determined by others. When you can truly know what you want for yourself, you will find that getting it is a hell of a lot easier.

5. Finally, enjoy yourself. Listen to music, walk through the woods, go see plays - whatever it is that calms you, centers you, awakens your sense of joy... do that thing. You should work hard, yes, but you shouldn't have to suffer endlessly. You will know you're on the right path when your hard work is something you do because it brings you to life. You will know you're in balance when you spend as much energy on appreciation as on accomplishment.

Life is about the fulfillment of your unique abilities. You are embarking on a wonderful adventure. To your credit, you have stopped to ask for some advice. Now that you've gathered it, don't try to follow it. Just tuck it away in your back pocket and head into the woods.

Good luck!

um... ok...

[bethorphil]

Holy fuck, this guy's bitter.

There are plenty of supremely brilliant people doing quite well in this world... I even work with some of them. The Einstein-level braniacs who can't keep a steady job (yes, there are plenty) like to blame society for not being in tune with their greatness.

In reality, you just need to keep in mind this one simple fact: Suck-ass personal skill will usually cancel out about 130 perceived IQ points.

If you're a brilliant student wondering what to concentate on in college, try student government, model UN, or something else that requires you to interact with people and make them like you. If you're a bitter genius with a festering ulcer from the hundreds of rejections you get every year, try to wrap your brain around the possibility that either a) you're not as smart as you think you are... or b) people don't feel stupid around you, they feel annoyed.

Re:um... ok...

[cubicledrone]

There are plenty of supremely brilliant people doing quite well in this world... I even work with some of them. The Einstein-level braniacs who can't keep a steady job (yes, there are plenty) like to blame society for not being in tune with their greatness.

Then there are the rest of the people who have above-average intelligence and know enough to simply follow the instructions. Those are usually the ones first out the door when mass layoffs are announced. The "Einstein-level" people never get hired, as they are clearly more intelligent than the hiring managers.

This is factual information. There is no argument here.

a) you're not as smart as you think you are...

Which is what, another way to say "you're not smart because some middle manager says so?" Please.

or b) people don't feel stupid around you, they feel annoyed.

Which, naturally, gives them the right to fire the "smart guy" and destroy his career.

It's not that those people feel that layoffs are necessarily unfair. It is that the "annoyed" are blameless. Nobody EVER points out or addresses those who actively work (on company time) to destroy someone else's career. They are usually too busy processing the exit interviews for the "smart people."

They now have a label for us

[ryuo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger%27s_Syndrome ...and a professional organization:
http://www.aspergia.com/

I bet a quarter to a half of the posters qualify...

drugs

[CAIMLAS]

I treated myself with copious amounts of drugs. I'm pretty average now, thank goodness. The condition was getting fairly serious.

I wouldn't change a thing.

[ave19]

I match up pretty well with what you're describing. Except, I didn't get to go to college. Well, not yet. I'm going to be 33 years old next month, just so you know how far ahead I am on the road of life.

Allow me to describe the road I took:

I joined the USAF after high school instead (we were poor) and was selected to attend language school (DLI in Monterey) and learn Russian. After Russian, I had Serbo-Croatian. You basically have to be in the top two percent of the population, in terms of brain power, to make it through. Everyone I knew then, (and all my best friends now) scored a 98 or above on the ASVAB. (IQ 140+) I call us "two-percenters." We're easy to spot. Sounds like you're one, too.

I can do everything but play Scrabble. All of my linguist friends have some natrual language genius. I have NONE! I think in simulations and models. (If you spot any spelling mistakes in this post, don't bother pointing them out. ;) )

Anyway, languages I could do, barely, but with a computer, I really shine. Programming languages, EASY. I just... know what they're thinking. So I switched from linguist to computer programmer (my 3rd AFSC) and worked as a system administrator for about 3 years. (I was in for a total of 8 years.)

So, what was that road like?

Well, here's the upside, I've done really really well for myself. I started in poverty and pulled myself out. Anyone who knows me knows I'm really good at what I do. Co-workers love me. Everything's great! Piles of money and challenging work. I couldn't even describe a cooler job than mine.

So what's the problem?

Everything I've gotten so far has been mostly due to luck. My first boss in the commercial world was my supervisor in the Air Force. He knew me and hired me despite the fact the company he worked for generally didn't touch people without a degree. He just wanted my brains.

In that job, I so impressed a different boss that when he split to join a new company, he made me an offer and took me with him. (He was a really great guy.) I shined again.

Where, I met a co-worker who was an Electrical Engineer. He liked my attitude and my smarts, and when he went to a new company, I followed.

Which is where I am now, and again, everyone loves me. See the pattern?

I've never been able to land a job with people who don't already know me, because I can't PROVE with a degree what I know. And, what I claim to know would be expensive to hire. I've smarted myself out of marketability. Nobody wants a high school graduate taking care of a multi-million dollar system.

It's something I sometimes wish I could do. Even after all my moving around, I'm still not far from the tree from which I fell. But, with my 33 years of perspective, I know most of those pangs have more to do with The Grass Is Greener Syndrome than anything real.

I like the people I work with, so, I don't mind sticking around, even though the travel component is a strain on my family life (3 boys). I like the job a lot.

I could be making double, if I had a degree. But I'm happy with what I have. (But, I can remember days when we'd count up change to see if we could buy our boys a coke with their McDonald's hamburgers, so, your milage may vary.) But really, a degree is just a ticket to ride. Nobody I've talked to would care much what kind of degree I had, just so long as I had something to put under the "Education" column in their personnel database.

So, that's my story. Cudos on going to college. It's well worth it. But don't sweat it.

Still, I wouldn't change much in my life. My kids will be moving out soon and I'm going to start taking classes. In anything BUT computer science. :) I think you'll find, too, that your varied interests will only expand over time.

And don't listen to the losers who say "get over yourself, you're not special." Everyone is special.

(BTW, you won't like everyone you m

Find your media

[tz]

I print out web pages and read them over lunch, dinner (eating slower), or when I wait for other things.

Audiobooks, particularly from blackstone audio ( 1 800 Say Book / blackstoneaudio.com). If you ever wished you read Milton, Mises, or Marcus Aurelius, they have it and you can do it while exercising, bicycling, driving, etc. They also have the best Sci-Fi, history, and other things.

Don't try to follow other's paths. If you don't like the outdoors, watching football, or other activities, don't bother with them. Find what you like and stick with it.

You may need to find a place. Contracting/Consulting generally is a series of project starts or continuings that might be within your style. You don't need a degree, but you might not be able to get into some dinosaur companies as a direct employee without it. I had some college - what I liked (science and math), but didn't finish.

You need knowledge, but you can get that yourself. I didn't have the internet when I was starting, but had Borders and other bookstores, and libraries. The internet and most computer infrastructure is documented on the internet.

Learn how to learn and access information. You will be ahead of 98% of your competitors who might have a lot of static knowledge. Also bring things across boundaries. My hobbies and other subjects like chemistry and biology apply - I have more tools to apply.

Also if you know software, learn hardware. And maybe mechanics. A robot needs all three. If a chance presents itself, learn beyond the task - learn accounting, bookkeeping, management, whatever you are implementing.

Maintain healthy debt

[Mr. Piddle]

Whatever you do, don't ever take on more unsecured educational debt (e.g., loans for tuition) than you can pay off within three or four years after graduating. Too many people go to an expensive private school blinded by idealism to only find themselves imprisoned to their debt for ten or more years. This is serious stuff, because school debt is a very huge distraction from much more important post-school things like buying a car or home or starting a family. Don't fall into the loan trap!!!

Re:Maintain healthy debt

[hsoft]

Absolutely right. The real freedom is to be clear of debts.

Could be good

[ccmay]

The undergraduate technicians get 7 bucks an hour to drive their own cars around campus at their own expense and fix whiny girl's computers.

Yeah, but if they are not total /. lusers, they may get laid.

-ccm

Hope you get this far

[MythoBeast]

There's a lot of dren above this post, so I don't consider it likely that you'll see this. Nonetheless, I'll tell you what I know. Without going into details, I'll just say that I'm in a position to appreciate your quandry.

1. What you are is absolutely immaterial compared to what you do. It doesn't matter how talented you are if you don't do anything with it.

2. Don't pay too much attention to other people's priorites. Good grades are important, but it's likely that you have much more driving priorities right now, especially if you resort to posting something like this on Slashdot. Identifying what is more important to you than school should be your first priority, then figure out how to manage that need.

3. Sample a lot of things. One of the secrets to living a happy life is to try to comprehend what other people find enjoyable about something.

4. Pick something that you enjoy and that you do well and focus on it. It's very helpful if it's very lucerative, but that's mostly a bonus. As long as it's vaguely lucerative, you'll be happier than if you're doing something you don't enjoy, or that you don't do well. On the other hand, avoid things that are thoroughly unlucerative, as they will lead you to frustration.

5. Conversely, all of the other things that you're interested you should pursue until you've gauged your aptitude in them, and maybe until you're somewhat above average at them. Then dump it for something newer and more interesting. Remember that these things are recreation, and that your primary skill is your vocation.

6. Remember the Spiderman philosophy. With superior ability comes superior responsibility. Pick a lifetime goal that is appropriate to your aptitude, and you will never lack a challenge.

Pretty rude yourself

[ccmay]

You were clearly the first one to be rude in this thread, and as I read further it turns out you are not just rude but a hypocrite as well.

Why couldn't the cultured middle class of Guanajuato restore their own landmark buildings, instead of importing a know-it-all American to do it for them?

That's a rhetorical question, of course. The fact is that Americans often DO know how to do something better than anyone else in the world. For this, we get the ingratitude of those we try to help, and the sneering contempt of so-called intellectuals.

-ccm

Re:Pretty rude yourself

[dedalus57]

I was working on an international team of artisans headed by a Mexican archetect. I see no hypocrasy there. It was a beautiful, mind-opening experience.

My original rudeness stemmed from ohReally calling Gto. "third world". and his suggesting that an extended holliday in a third world country might actually benifit someone suffering from nothing more than a lack of discipline.

I am pretty sure that the residents of Guanajato would take umbrage to being called "third world".

All in all, though, you are right, it doesn't excuse my presentation.

Re:Pretty rude yourself

[Ohreally_factor]

Then you need to read for comprehension and retention. I suggested that he try moving to a third world country, OR at least a developing nation. If I switch back to Spanish, will that improve your understanding?

Also, you might note that I suggested the opposite of a "holiday".

Anyway, rudeness and insults aside (please don't take me too seriously, this is /. after all), I'll agree to disagree on whether or not Gto. is comparable to Berkeley or Amherst. I further agree that Gto. is pretty middle class by Mexican standards. Perhaps I was taking umbrage because I really don't think much of Berkeley but I absolutely love Guanajuato.

Out of curiousity, what buildings did you restore? Did you do any work on Teatro Juárez?

Re:Pretty rude yourself

[dedalus57]

Ah, i wish i had a chance to work on the Teatro Jaurez. Beautifull restoration job. I did work up on the Paseo de la Presa, most noteably a structure know as the 'Casa de Las Bruhas', just below the governors palace on the way to the dam. This was in the early eighties. And i never got to see 'las mommias', they were on tour in japan :>

Yeah, sorry i was testy this morning.

Re:Pretty rude yourself

[Ohreally_factor]

Hombre!

I lived in Casa de las Brujas for part of my time in Guanajuato. It's a school now. I lived in a room in the building in the back of the school (which I'm pretty sure was built much later). Let me commend you on the job you and your team did. Apparently the witches are all pretty happy. =) I saw one, but that's another story.

Anyway, just so you know, everyday people slow down as they drive by to look at your work. Sometimes tour buses drive by and slow down.

What do you call that style of architecture? It's Victorian, obviously, but not any style of Victorian I've ever seen before.

Oh, and I haven't seen las mommias either. I went up there one day, but the lines were way too long, so I'm saving it for another day.

Re:Pretty rude yourself

[dedalus57]

ohreally,

thank you. i was there in 89-90, not the early 80s like i see my post said.( typo, freudian slip, senior moment, you be the judge!). The building is a real style called Victorian Gingerbread, not some singular demented Hansel and Gretel raving of lunatic archetect or visionary madman, but a real archetectural style. It was built by Canadians around the turn of the century.

You are there in Gto., now? i envy you. It would be very hot and dry there now, but come late august, september its going to rain every day for a month, and then things get pretty green.

Hike the Bufa!

You are making a grave misunderestimation

[ccmay]

Take Dufus in the Whitehouse for example. Few people would claim that he is an original thinker or highly knowledgable.

Well, seeing as how he was able to fly a Delta Dart without killing himself, and subsequently earned an MBA from Harvard, I'd say he's got to be in the 95th percentile at least. His name may have got him into Harvard, but it sure didn't get him out.

You would think that the Left would have learned long ago that the talent for glib public speaking is not at all equivalent to intelligence. After all, aren't they continually running down things like the SAT test, with claims that the ability to play basketball or tell stories or make friends is just another kind of intelligence like the ability to do calculus?

On the other hand there are people with blistering high IQs and degrees in Nuclear Physics who can't find a job better than part time computer class instructor.

Carter was a nuclear engineer and a dismal failure. He has made a pretty good ex-President, though.

Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar and masterful public speaker whose major initiatives either failed spectacularly or were poached directly from the Republicans. He squandered his opportunity to make a lasting impact, and will be remembered by history as an easily-distracted lightweight who had the good fortune to be elected at an exceptionally peaceful and prosperous time.

-ccm

My Secret of Life

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations. And don't let those assholes stop you that try to tell you that you are not special. They just never got to terms with being not special themselves.

So here is the Secret of Life.

The World doesn't give shit about you.

So don't give a shit about it yourself.

The World doesn't owe you anything, neither do you owe it anything.

So with the obligations between you and the World out of the way:

Your greatest danger is becoming terminally bored. At the same time, you'll have to sustain yourself.

So some options are:
- Go for a cutting-edge research post. Get a mentor that tells you whose boots you need to lick. You'll see some of your ideas published under their names. Get over it. Eventually you'll succeed him/her. They got into their posts the same way, or they happened to be the wrong people in the right place at the right time. Happens all the time.
- Find a job that pays the rent in minimum time. Use all the spare hours to do the bright, interesting things.
- Socialize with the right people. Join clubs, societies, whatever. Give them reasons why they should advance you, and you will advance. Sorry to say this, but you will go up on their scale of importance if you are useful to them, not because you are bright. That's how organizations have worked for millenia.

Don't ever contemplate jumping off a ledge. There's no reason to. Don't doubt yourself. Some study found that successful people are typically no brighter than average but have inflated self-esteem, no qualms, no self-doubt. Since you are exceptionally bright, that eliminates one success factor. Do not eliminate another.

However, don't overdo it. I met a guy who was exceptionally bright but tried to blackmail his superior into writing a glowing report for him. So don't rub it in, but sitting around quietly, hoping to be recognized as a bright kid doesn't work either. Make your presence known. And if you are really bright, you can get away with not doing the mundane things... however, remember that you still have to be useful to your organization, even if they cannot assign the run-of-the-mill tasks to you.

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake...

[Anonymous Coward]

You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile.

--Tyler Durden, Fight Club

Small pond, big sea

[PMuse]

If I were going to give professional advice, I'd say: It's good that you've identified your weaknesses (e.g. lack of tenacity when bored). Now, work on fixing them. Like the born stutterer who forces herself to become a public speaker, we all gain a lot by working to reduce the severity of our particular limitations.

However, I'm going to give practical advice instead. Go to college and get laid. Get your heart broken. A couple of times. You'll have a whole new perspective on whether you're "bright" or not and whether that matters a damn. Oh, and the guy who said "get a mentor" gave you the best advice of the day.

Quothe my psych prof: We all do what we're least unhappy doing while we wait to die.

Better yet...

[Anonymous Coward]

Avoid school altogether. Go out into the world, try to make it without that piece of paper the world seems to hinge upon, get abused in more than one way, and then you'll have the motivation you need to attend school.

Better still, if you make it, you will have circumvented the new opiate of the masses: education. At university prices, you'd probably be better off taking the five stacks of high society you'd spend there and start your own business. If you lose it, you're a young pup with plenty of time to start over.

Could be a genetic illness...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just so you know, this sounds a little like the psychology of people with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. (A physical disorder of the connective tissue, but with many consequences.) Bright, well read, not overwhelmingly energetic or crazy about long work on boring detail.

Nonsense of course

[Aexia]

We all start off as beautiful unique snowflakes. Unfortuantely, as Calvin once demonstrated, society has the habit of melting everyone together into an boring, uniform puddle of water.

The best principle is do what makes you happy. I was the "smart kid" in school growing up and I've always been interested in computers and tried to do that in college because I figured that's what I was supposed to be doing. I quickly discovered that doing computers for actual work robbed me of any enjoyment that I previously derived from them. I was stressed out, unhappy and my grades started to nosedive. Finally, my senior year, I switched to political science(which I had always been minoring in) for a major and almost instantly became more relaxed and happier. My grades improved and I graduated.

I do political work now. My computer skills are enough that they appear godlike to everyone this arena and I'm working in a career where I feel like I'm making a difference in the grand scheme of things. (Or at least *trying* to make one)

If building a stable career at a corporation is what makes you happy, then do that. If staying happy means quitting said stable job so you can go travelling in Europe for several months, then do that instead. Happiness is different for everyone and you'll generally learn what it is in college.

Curse of Ham

[Aexia]

Google is your friend.

Re:Curse of Ham

[Keck]

I wasn't speaking (writing?) ignorantly, this is is a well known issue. The so called 'curse of ham' (which was really a curse on one of Ham's sons, Canaan) is found near the end Genesis 9, and doesn't make any reference to blackness. There is a really good book on the subject by David M. Golderberg, in which he examines how this misconception was formed. It's quite rigorous, very thorough research.

So like I said to the previous author, I can't find anyplace in the Bible that teaches me that Blacks are Bad and should be slaves. I think MLK was a prophet in every sense of the word.

Don't measure your worth

[Noble Kiwi]

Don't measure your worth, that's neurotic. Measure your available real-world options by their worth to you.

Re:Your Sig

[Inthewire]

God can spell.

Find a Passion, Get College Degree

[resmitty]

TO: Uniquely Bright: Experiences and Tips? Intelligence is a great asset, but it doesn't guarantee sucess. Other personality facets are important too, especially Emotional Intelligence, Tenacity, People Skills, Modesty, Humility. Always remember this: Regardless of how intelligent you are, you will encounter others who are just as intelligent, some with more experience, and you will always be able to learn something from every human on earth--even the most lowly one. Find something you're passionate about and pursue it with all your might. Work is too big a part of us to not love what we do. We'll always do well at what we're passionate about. Get a college degree, and truly apply yourself while you're there. An old saying has real merit, "If it's worth doing at all, it's worth doing right." Perhaps the biggest mistake I made in my teens was goofing off, not working hard, doing just enough to get good grades in high school. As a result, my brain developed lazy habits, and would later on rebel--and try to give up--when the going got tough. And, it will get tough. You, like all of us, will encounter problems in life and work that will demand that we bear down and do hard mental work. Best wishes to you . . . . . (BTW, I'm 66)

prepare ...

[macsak]

My suggestion ... go to a good university and prepare to meet hundreds of others just as "uniquely bright" and "gifted" as you are.

It's not about how smart you are.. its what you do

[kyoorius]

It's not about how smart you are, it's what you do with your smarts. INTP's think well "outside of the box", but in order to deal effectively with people, you also how to know how everyone else thinks "inside the box." My suggestion would be to go to college, meet some friends, have fun, increase your social skills, improve your good intuition and most importantly your common sense. You will end up a more "well rounded" person with excelelnt technical/analytical skills as a bonus.

That will put you a cut above the thousands of technical geniuses out there.

If I had a dime for every person who said that...

[cyfan2000]

I knew a lot of guys in High School who talked just like you. They were all self-absorbed, unrealistic, and unmotivated. 15 years later they work crappy jobs near the small town we grew up in. Meanwhile I do quite nicely, thank you. My advice? Play the friggin' game. No employer/boss gives a crap about your bullshit about being too smart for school. If you're really that smart, get straight A's. Go ahead and try it, you'll find it's not so easy. Try a major that is something challenging like engineering or physics or microbiology or pre-med. All my friends that had those degrees weren't necessarily the smartest but they had to work their asses off. They'd love a lazy punk like you to come in and drag down the curve so they do even better. In 10 years when you're in a crappy job, just keep holding onto the "I'm too smart for this" thing. It'll be all you got in your miserable life.

advice

[howlettart]

Do something that is difficult, learn how to ask others for help, fail, or if you don't fail, keep doing new things until you do fail, then don't blame those who helped when you do. Then use your intellect to learn something from your failing. This can be for love or money...become published, run a 4 minute mile, ask that girl out, appologise for something you got away with, or...start an internet company.

Answering the Question

[Anonymous Coward]

My name is Justin and I'm an INTJ with an IQ of 155 who had some motivational troubles in college, but finished well my last two years to get my BS in Computer Science. Here is what I suggest.

Attitude
- People are what matter the most, not ideas.
- You need other people more than they need you. - In every interaction be patient and humble, and learn to explain your ideas well, or you will come off as condescending.
- Be faithful to what you have committed to, and see it through to completion, for the sake of others as much as yourself.
- The most valuable learning experiences will come from the relationships you build with your professors and classmates.

With that kind of attitude, you will do well in whatever field you choose. As for classes, here are some suggestions from my own experience.

Classes
- History: A Holocaust Studies class, preferrably media/propaganda-related. No one should leave college without having studied the Holocaust.
- Sociology: Introduction to Sociology.
- Philosophy: Ethics, Logic.
- Computer Science: Psychology of Computing/User Interfaces, Computer Ethics, Multimedia Systems, Team Software Engineering.
- Electrical Engineering: Digital Logic Circuits.
- Economics: Macroeconomics.
- Mathematics: Fundamentals of Computation, Combinatorics.
- Music: Intro to Music Theory.
- Religion: Comparative World Religions, preferrably ones that you are not familiar with.
- Physical Education: Ballroom Dance, and at least one credit of PE per semester, it will help all of your other classes immensely.

Tips
- Introductory classes will oftentimes give you a broad overview of a field, and are a great way to learn about your own expectations and interests.
- Cultivate friendships with your advisor and professors. Have lunch with them, share with them your life and dreams, and share in theirs.
- Talk with students who have already taken classes you are considering, and take their advice.
- Choose classes for the professor first and the content second.
- Take complimentary classes at the same time if you can. I took the Fundamentals of Computation, which deals with mathematical logic, set theory, number theory, finite state machines, etc. at the same time as the Logic of Languages in the Philosophy department. It was the best learning experience I ever had, I learned formal logic systems from both the linguistic and mathematical perspectives.
- Do everything you commit to well. It took me 5 years to finish college, but until I started taking only 13-14 credits per semester, my GPA was terrible and I was burnt out and miserable. I finished up with a 3.8 my last 2 years. Know your own limits.
- Above all, take care of the most important things in life first. When my relationship with my family suffered, everything suffered. And when my family fell apart of its own accord, if I hadn't had a strong relationship with Jesus and a community of friends who truly loved me, then I wouldn't have lasted the semester.
- Plan on getting counseling while it's still free, it's the rule, not the exception. Everyone needs to be in touch with their emotions, men especially, and all of your relationships will improve if you are honest with how things make you feel.
- Finally, for ultimately deciding what you will believe, follow a belief all the way to it's conclusion. Is this world nothing more than the particles that make it up? Does life really have no meaning? Is everything really just relative, or does knowable, absolute truth exist? Does existence really stop once I die? Decide for yourself what you will, and understand the logical conclusions of your beliefs.

In my experience, the most important truth is knowable by the least of those in society, and I am often put to shame by the lives of others who are not as intelligent as me, who simply live a life of loving Jesus and loving the people around them.

"But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak t

Amen.

[NuclearDog]

Amen.

High School is bullshit...

[1eyedhive]

I just graduated High School (FLA), 2 years too late IMO. When I turned 16, I immediatly enrolled in the county Night School (usually reserved for the Total Dumb Fucks who flunk out) I used it to pass all my social sciences classes (Am Hist, World Hist, Gov't and Econ, 3 creds total) in the span of 22 weeks, 2 hours a day 2 days a week. (instead of 2.5 years on a normal schedule or 1.25 on a block (my High School was on block). I started my own business during my sophmore year, by the end of said year, I was ready for graduation. My reading skills have been college level since 6th grade, my math scores decent, yadda, yadda. I had a disiplinarian, an airhead (2 years) and a crazy woman for english teachers... Science consisted of one real, real bad Physical Science (supposidly Honors...) class. The other 2 years were above average. Aside from my freshman year (math teacher had a voice like nails on a chalkboard...), math was OK, but finally picked up senior year when I had a real Geek friendly teacher (finally). I spent two and a half years of High School in technical classes, all IT based, a fraction of that counts for credits at community college. (and the CCNA teacher broke up class every day for a hslf hour on 'how to improve your web site's search tanking' oy) Basically, except for a few bright spots senior year, HS was over for me end of 10th grade. I'm one of those 'nontraditionslly bright' folk myself. I have Cerebal Palsy (right hemiparisis, limiting the use of my right extremedies). I type left handed, write left handed and don't run very well (Phys. Ed royally sucked ass). My scores are above average except in math computation (scar tissue blasted most of that part of my brain), math problem solving skills, OTOH are 99th percentile (computation's in the 60's), I always have a calculator with me :) Did I mention I was ready to leave HS in 10th grade. Ending GPA: 3.475 (would have been higher had the asswipe in CCNA not given me bloody C's for getting 90's (A's) on the tests.) I may be surrounded with idiots yet again in college, but at least this time I won't be restrained and force fed info I already know, like those last 2 years in HS.

truly great post

[Sayan]

I guess a lot of Slashdotter would feel the same. I suggest you do something which can truly change the world. I know this sounds vague, but if you are what you claim to be then you will understand.

People like you are not corrupted by ambition / greed and are intelligent and creative...often have extraordinary multi-displinary skills and the ability to look beyond the ordinary hum-dum of life.

It would actually be nice to have a community of like-minded people and a have a go at defining the greatest problems in the world and proposing solutions to make the world a better place...that is something I have been wanting to do for a long time.... may be I am naive but there is always hope for an eternal optimist.

Go to school... Don't go to school

[cyphire]

I hated school... Mostly because I was used to 'sliding' through the education process. My teachers never called me on not handing in assignments, and because I was great at cramming and testing I got good grades. Anything which bored me I did poorly in, and anything which required steady work or practice (such as languages) I dropped or got crappy grades. I went to 4 different universities, and ended up dropping out after 121 credits. When I was studying something I liked, I could concentrate. I don't think formal education is a waste of time, I think that you get out of it what you put into it. That being said, it seems to me that mostly college is a period of personal growth, binge drinking and drugging, and picking out a future career with very little actual research. Try to find out what you want in life. Don't just go to college because everyone else does. The posts which talk about B.S. degrees starting at level 13 and Ph.D's start at level 17 scare the crap out of me. Success has very little to do with your education level and the kind of university you attend. It has to do with your drive and ambition and it mostly has to do with your belief in yourself and how you keep your 'eye on the prize'. A motivated individule can achieve great things - but you have to want to reach your goals.

Re:Take oddball courses and challenge your self-im

[NuclearDog]

"Most people/programs at the collegiate level are pretty dumb and focus strongly on learning by rote, passing tests and writing cookie-cutter essays."

WOW! Finally somewhere my dyslexia can help! </sarcasm>

you asked for it!

[samantha]

a) do not under any circumstances take the advice of the /. crowd. Most of them know less than you do and all of them know you less well than you do.

b) find something that you have love and some gifts for that you believe will make a real difference in the world. Do that with all your heart.

c) don't be surprised when you find you are bright enough to find out how dumb you really are - where your limits are and how unfortunately soon you run into them. You may be brighter than most but that isn't saying very much. Even the brightest person on earth is quite limited relative to some of the things worth doing out there.

d) Find your uniqueness and develop it. Don't become some "safe" and "conventional" kind of nerd.

e) push yourself to your limits. It is the only way you'll grow. You may be bright enough to coast through. Don't do it or at least do some things other than the norm that you don't coast on but tax yourself to the max.

f) don't assume college is like HS. Some of it unfortuantely is but much isn't. Take hard stuff you find interesting. Stick it out. Get the boring "rounding" krap done as soon as you can.

g) work at getting over the incredible dumbing down which most HS is. congrats on surviving it. Work at finding and healing the wounds it imposed.

You sound like my twin

[evilb]

Your description of yourself reminds me very much of myself. I've led a pretty unusual life, mostly because of thinking like yours and I don't regret a day of it.

Do what interests you, not what you think you should do. Whatever you feel like pursuing, pursue. This may lead you some strange places, but I promise if you're true to yourself, you won't regret it.

I went to college for a year, and decided it wasn't for me. There was a lot of bullshit, and not enough real "enlightenment" to balance it out. Granted, it wasn't the best college, but I didn't like high school either, if you know what I mean...

Since I left college, it's almost seemed like an adventure. I've worked as a photographer, cook, played for that blackjack team that's on the History Channel, played professional poker, taught myself C++ and Win32 programming and worked my way up from a junior programmer making $10/h to a senior programmer raking in over $100k a year.

Another thing, don't think you'll ever find any answers that are permanent. Like you, I get bored with just about everything I do after a while. Even the computer programming, my "dream job" for so many years. It just got old. The hard part is understanding that if you're anything like me, you're not going to find one area in your life to focus on forever. Even that sweet programming job got old after a while. I quit, sold my house and lived in Costa Rica for 2 years, learned a lot of Spanish and experienced a totally different kind of life.

Anyway, the only advice I have is to do what *you* want to do. Study what *you're* interested in. All the rest will fall into place. Don't worry about your future; just concentrate on living here and now.

ROTFL

[epine]

Megaloomania--I think I've seen that term before in the small print on the Zoloft packaging. That's where you sit and comtemplate what happened to your sex drive, and whether you wouldn't be better off as a continent pervert flipping burgers at 1:00am.

worst post

[epine]

That must be the worst post in this entire thread. AC posting with a terrible subject line who launches into lumperhood as his thesis paragraph. I've associated with maybe a dozen people in the three to four sigma bracket, some of whom managed to fit in, some of whom didn't. Every misfit I've known has melted his snowflake in his own unique fashion. There's more diversity in failure than success. And what is this "pay your dues" crap? Check out this lecture on hedonic rationalization By Daniel Gilbert. Life is cruel, everyone pays their dues eventually, one way or another, but I'd hardly recommend going through life looking for opportunities to drop your pants and bend over. There's an awful lot that goes on at universities that's institutional, bureaucratic, cynical, and worthless. Heck, "Shawshank Redemption" works quite well as documentary about the undergraduate experience. This is maybe a cryptic sentiment, but I think the secret is to find something in life you care enough about that when the lumps comes (they always do) you feel like you deserved them, but there you are in the muck and you have to find a way to crawl out again. There's a common statement about satisfaction, that it measures not what you accomplished, but what you sacrificed to get there. Before you can make a meaningful sacrifice, you have to live enough to decide what you believe, which is very hard to do if you fall for the "we all have to suffer, everyone get in line" Camenbert.

Intelligence has but one real virtue...

[igodard]

Sure, there are practical advantages to being bright. But the only thing that really matters is that it lets you see that "if only" is a trap. Many people (who do not think of themselves as bright) feel that "if only I were smart then life would be wonderful". But smart people *are* smart - and life isn't wonderful. Hence, "if only I were smart" is a trap, and by extension *all* "if only"s are traps too.

This realization is greatly liberating because it lets you get on with your life, and so have a chance that it will actually *be* wonderful after all. People who are not smart have a harder time avoiding traps. Sure, if you're beautiful then you will avoid the "if only I were beautiful" trap, but beautiful won't help you make the generalization to other traps like smart will.

Ivan

Girls

[tehcyder]

Well, I've got bored reading all the replies and haven't read them all, but I would suggest getting a girlfriend.

That will knock the delusions/illusions about how different you are right out of the window.

Some experiences, some books

[Noble Kiwi]

It's interesting how many comments here focus on humiliation or comparing yourself against other people: "You're actually not as great as you think, you need to be taken down a few notches." I've never found any practical use in that sort of advice. When I was 18, I wish someone had told me factual, practical things about the careers of creative people so I could add that to my own experiences and make up my own mind. So here goes.

Here are some details from the real life of another "uniquely bright" INTP, now age 38:

I once got a job as an editor for a book publisher when he created the job for me. He liked the way I thought about books and marketing. On the job, he taught me some fantastically valuable stuff about getting people to do their best work and about managing uncertainty. I've quit every job after a maximum of four years because I thought I learned what it had to teach me, and I moved on to something else. Some people said I was crazy because I could have made more money by not starting over at something new, but I'm not in this for the money. I once wasted two years on a stupid software project where I got paid nothing, because I was too stupid to know that "death before dishonor" does not apply to software projects. Then I got a job as a writer. I've performed improv comedy on stage for money (a tiny amount, but even a little money changes everything). One time, I got inspired and spent two weeks writing poems followed by four weeks of math. That was the best, most profitable six weeks I ever spent. I've never had the urge to write poems again, but I put what I learned to use in marketing materials and other writing. I once worked alongside some Russian mathematicians at one of the weirdest software shops ever and got taught some advanced math--and was paid to do it. I quit college in my early 20's because I thought it was bullshit to sit in a class, copy down what the professor wrote on the board, and regurgitate it on exams. A few months later, I was getting paid to learn Unix and lots of other things. Now I'm back in college building on the math I picked up, aiming to become a college professor. I still think most college classes are bullshit, but I'm playing the college game way more intelligently and having way more fun than before, now that I'm there with a purpose. I've sometimes wondered if I should have stuck with college the first time, but it's hard to say. I know a lot of real-world stuff that many academics don't, and I don't think I could have learned it had my career followed a straighter path.

Here are two intelligent books on careers:

What Should I Do with My Life? by Po Bronson. Not a book to tell you step-by-step what to do; instead, a collection of real stories from interviews with real people who found, or did not find, meaningful work. They give you a real sense of how varied and unpredictable real-world opportunities are. There is hardly any common denominator to the stories, but the author tried to distill some lessons in this article.

I Could Do Anything If Only I Knew What It Was by Barbara Sher. Despite the cute title, it's actually very practical advice about finding the kind of work that brings out your talents in a satisfying way. The author understands that people are very different from each other, and they work best in very different kinds of jobs. She also understands that you need to figure that out for yourself, through experience.

College is more than classes

[Popper52]

Reading both your initial comments and the posts in reply, something is missing. College isn't just going to classes and getting a degree. It's experiences. The best part of my college experience was not in the classrooms; it was the hundreds of other things I did that gave me a real sense of growth and accomplishment. I could probably have described myself in the same terms you did. So could thousands of others. In fact there were things I could have done - and didn't - that would have made my academic experience much better. The difference was that other stuff. I wrote movie reviews for the university newspaper; I not only saw my stuff in print, and got comments from friends who actually read the stuff; I also got to interview Frank Capra and Robert Altman when they came for film festivals. I joined a debating society and learned to overcome my shyness and speak before rowdy audiences on any subject under the sun. I worked crew on several stage productions, and even acted. I even made short films. And all of these were where I found my friends and best memories, not in classes. Academic accomplishment and learning from top scholars in the classroom setting is wonderful, but it isn't the sum total of the college experience. If you need to find something to engage you, get out of the classroom. Join a club. Found one if there isn't one that suits your needs; you'll be surprised that suddenly there are others who share your interest. Maybe those activities will guide you toward your career. Maybe not. Certainly they will give you skills and experience that will help you in whatever you do. The great thing about the university years is that you're totally free to get into whatever you want. I joined the debating society on a whim; it was totally wrong for me. But it was the best thing I ever did in college. Follow your passion, and life will take care of itself.

Uniquely Bright: Experiences and Tips?

[kchilders]

Joined the military, got into SOF and never did worry about doing the same old thing repeatedly. Saw most of the world, and not all as a combatant. Had many un scripted events and challenges, where solutions all depended on who asked and what you had to sork with. Of course the roll of the military has chaged, but there ae many other Gov and NGO organizations that offer similar opportunities.

Life's good once you work out who you are.

[praxis22]

Like you, I thought school sucked, I hated it for the most part, the thing that made it bareable was my friends, I was an outcast then, and I "made trouble" by being a non-conformist and asking questions, especially the one they (the powers that be)never wanted to answer, "why?" I'm a Brit, so my "education" was free, to an extent, but even then it was a tad dull, I too found it easy, just as I had found school "easy" when I could be arsed to try. But I went to college late, once I realised the value of getting an education. Not for the "education" itself, (as it didn't teach me much I didn't already know, or wasn't interested in) but for the experience of getting it. For meeting like minded/different people and having fun, breaking out of your box, and trying new stuff. I guess the world looks a lot different now than it did 20+ years ago, and I would have to say that looking back, knowing what I know now, I could have done things differently. I spent many years doing menial shop work, some of which I enjoyed, some of which I didn't. I even did some light engineering, with lathes, mills and drills, for the authentic "working man" experience. But overall I think I prefer being a sysadmin. I enjoy the challenges it poses, not everyday, but for the most part it's good. By far the biggest battle is working out "who" you are, and "what" it is you want. Because it's not something anyone else can tell you. Usually, (though not always) the love of a good woman comes in handy, though I would urge you to find one that stirs you intellect as much, (if not more so) than your loins. Personally I'd ignore the money. Find something you like doing and stick to it. Money is good for buying toys, and for being able to say "fuck you" when you want to. But contrary to popular wisdom, it doesn't make you happy and it doesn't make all your problems go away. Products, even the best, are just toys that you will tire of. I bought a cutting edge Home Cinema last year, DTS, widescreen,etc. Hell, the scart cable alone cost 60 Euros! It does stuff that you wouldn't believe! But it's just tech, and while it may divert you for a few days, a few weeks maybe, it won't make you happy. In todays world, smart doesn't count for much, I'm quite bright, nowhere near as bright as my mate, who's got degrees in theoretical physics amongst his other educational prizes, he did his doctorate in Genetic algorithms. But I also remember talking to him one day on a car ride a few years ago, where we both realised we were "waiting for something" though we didn't know what. In the mean time we've both gotten married. he's 33 I think, climbing the greasy pole at Sun Microsystems, I turned down a job there to work at a bank, which seemed like the right idea at the time as I was interested, (and still am) in money. Not in having it, spending it, or accumulating it. Just "how it works" how the global financial system actually ticks. This turned out to be a mistake as it goes, so I jumped ship, but in a abstract way, working where I work now, got me my wife. I take the opinion that if you like where you are now, you can't change anything in your past. I've also decided not to have regrets until I'm old enough to enjoy them. I'm now 39, I'm still a big kid, and the older I grow the more I understand how much there is that I don't understand. In as much as I understand life, it seems to me that the best way to be is to find something you like doing, and make it your work. Find something you love doing and make that your hobby. Know the difference, and don't try to make one the other. Try to have a life outside of both, (something I'm only just learning the value of now) Travel is good, but only with others, (I find.) Though I'd ignore the pyramids, if you've seen one pyramid, you've seen them all. Karnak is far more awe inspiring... So there you go, no Monty Python, no Simpsons, no AYB and no 4)PROFIT!!! Enjoy the life you have, do what makes you happy, even if you don't know what that is yet :)

Been there

[Outland Traveller]

I know this is going to get burried in the other comments, but as someone who has been in the situation and survived mostly successfully, albeit it some regrets, I would suggest going to a very small college where your professors can get to know you personally, not just through your assignments.

Do whatever it takes to get involved as an assistant to someone who is working in a field you're interested it. Do whatever it takes to get someplace with as small as possible class sizes.

Want to talk more? Feel free to send email to outlandtraveller at amergin dot org.

Plan to be tha mad scientist at HOME

[Anonymous Coward]

No one will pay you to be creative and investigative unless you want to compete with the PhDs at the university. Get a dregree that is central to your interests, or something that you can pursue at HOME. Get a degree that makes you money and can get you at least a semi interesting job, and focus on building your mad scientist lab at home. Get the computer farm up and running, get the necessary equipment to build things, test equipment galore, and plan on pursuing your creative interest at your HOME.

Acceptance

[Avatar8]

It all sounds extremely familiar. :-)

I loved high school, but hated college. In general I've noticed numerous people have this mirror-image love-hate relationship with school. Love HS, hate college. Hated HS, love college. I think this mostly stems from the formats of how classes are tought. HS is very structured, predictable and most grades come from tests. If you're a good test-taker, like me, HS was a breeze. College is very free form. Classes and teachers are extremely different from each other, you often cannot tell what you should study or what might be in the next class, and work (lab, papers, projects) count for much more than they did in HS, i.e. making the tests count for less. I breezed through HS on knowledge, but I was unable to do all the work in college.

Point: you will probably enjoy college. Learn for learning's sake.

I too have a wide variety of interests. I would try something new, someone would tell me I was good at it and could become a professional at it, so I'd add it to my toolbox. I never did find exactly what I wanted to do as a dream job. I never could focus on any one thing long enough to make it a career, or I'd become uninterested in something when I found out the details of what it meant to do that job (reports, differential equations every day, dealing with insurance companies, and so forth).

Only now that I'm in a fairly successful computer career am I discovering that I actually dislike *working* with computers and the people that only use them as a tool for their jobs. I like tinkering and playing with computers, but work has taken that enjoyment away. I'm finding that I should have been a healer in some form or fashion, and I should be a public speaker about healing. As it is I'm a computer healer, and I find no reward in that.

Point: do what you like or what you have a passion for. Work (and income) will follow.

Obviously, no one can decide what's right for you except you. You're going to make some decisions, and you're going to make some mistakes. We all have. What's important is that you can accept yourself for who you are.

Re:Advice - exactly right!

[Benwick]

That's my philosophy in a nutshell (Barbarian parts about crushing my enemies notwithstanding). I went to a very good college to be a career-oriented CS major, then completely changed my mind, studied archaeology and got a graduate degree in creative writing.

Frost said it. "I took the road less traveled and it has made all the difference" (yada yada yada). Well, the difference is, I'm poor. :) But I do feel like I am in control of my own destiny. I have no boss but myself... ...and cops. Who keep yelling at me not to sleep under bridges.

No, seriously. Following the "traditional" life is a sort of self-zombie-fication. I cannot say whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, because as yet, I've only dabbled my feet in it, and then run screaming in the opposite direction. And that has made all the difference...

Find people that make you feel dumb.

[chrisatslashdot]

I suffered to some extent from the same problem that you described. Then I started seeking other people that made me feel dumb or small. In light of thier accomplishments I gained a new motivation to do better in school, work, family, and life in general. This is a continuos process.

As a mechanical engineering student I checked out the home pages of MIT students. As a father of three sons I looked to other fathers in my church that sucessfully raised sons. As a working engineer I look beyond the engineers around me and read about the work of the leaders in my field.

I thought I was the shizzle because of my l337 Excel and Word skills until I started reading about Knuth and Tufte. I thought I was a cool coder because of my Access and VBA skills until I read about PHP/MySQL. I thought I was L337 for using MySQL until I read about ProstgreSQL. Even though I was considerably more skilled than my peers in all of these area I could always find nre peers that I could learn from.

In short, if you feel so much brighter than your surroundings find new surroundings, that make you feel dim.

As an aside: when you enter the real world you will meet a co-worker that is not bright at all. This person will not enjoy an intelectual challenge and will work around any complex problems with simple but effective solutions that you would never have comprimised to. Yet he will enjoy a good deal of success. This person will have the respect from your bosses that you desire. You can learn a lot from this person.

Some advice and sites to visit

[Paul Fernhout]

First, turn off your broadcast television, exercise or do something physical at least three times a week, and eat healthier such as by drinking more clean water instead of soda or juice and eating organic food in reasonable proportions (especially organic meats if not a vegetarian).

Then, read James Lowen's _Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your High School History Texbook Got Wrong_ to see how your mind has unknowingly been filled with nationalist and consumer crap (despite your technical proclivities). Also check out Howard Zinn. Learn to live simply and frugally so you have more options:

If you have started doing all that, by now you are primed to begin to question what education really means.

And further, to even question why people need to work and what it should mean to do useful things.

You'll have time to read great minds like Bertrand Russel and Freeman Dyson.

Then you can accept you are still stuck in a stupid system.

But you'll be positioned to make the best of it and yet still see how the world can be a made better place to for the bulk of humanity and other creatures.

Always remember in your darker hours to at least ask yourself the question, "Can life be made worth living?" And in your brighter hours, remember to ask yourself if you are playing a finite (to win) game or an infinite (to play) game?

And, finally, for continual inspiration, read _Voyage From Yesteryear_ by James P. Hogan.

Now go out and take some educated risks to try to make life worth living -- despite your future happiness possibilities already almost being ruined by being convinced you that you are "bright" just because you know some technical things (same thing almost happened to me).

Re: Unusally Bright

[Chacham]

grew out of my INTP and became an ENTP

Impossible. Unless you over-differentiated your T side (and are thus ill adapted towards the world) you become an ISTP over time. You can act like an ENTP., but will never become one.

Please put subject here...

[signal7]

I've been in this 'mode' for quite some time. I typically jump from one major hobby/interest to another every 6 months or so. Photography, graphics, programming, cooking(including the sub-categories of homebrewing and coffee roasting), music(keyboard, guitar), motorcycles, general shop type stuff(woodworking, metalworking), electronics(digital and analog), and the list goes on...

Truth be known, if I'm not learning something new, I'm totally and utterly bored to death. The trick is to get yourself setup with a job that allows you to learn new things all the time(I'm a sysadmin, so keeping up with Linux, Mac, and Micro$oft keeps me on my toes). I earn enough in that job to buy books, and whatever other materials will help me with my hobbies. Furthermore, a job at a university will take you a long ways in - well - learning more stuff. If you work at a university, classes are generally free as an extra benefit.

Now, you might say that there's more to life than just learning new things - you're absolutely right. However - it's really tough to do the mundane stuff when you feel like you could be doing something more productive(or at least that's how I feel). Staff meetings, for instance, take an interminable length of time out of my week just to discuss what everyone else in the room already knows. Wish I could skip them, but the others in the office really like to socialize and *maybe* they learn something from it.

Welcome to the frontal right club!

[gbinvent]

I'm also an INTP. I took a test a while back that really changed my thinking. From what I've read, brain research has shown that we do our thinking in one or more of four lobes of the cortex (I'm oversimplifying).

Just as everyone has a prefferred hand (left or right) to use, everyone has a prefferred lobe. The electrical resistance in the pathways in non-prefferred lobes is estimated to be up to 100 times greater than in prefferred lobes.

I prefer using the frontal right area (which matches INTP very well). Here's the site that discusses brain leads: http://benziger.org/ The test can also be downloaded from this site. It's not cheap, but has been well worth it for me.

They also sell a book on the site that's been fascinating for me. It's called "Thriving in Mind"

Here are the four types in a nutshell: http://www.benziger.org/BTBD.html

You may be "bright" but are you "street smart"

[Anonymous Coward]

This may be a bit off topic, but it might be funny, and helpful. My girlfriend has a sister who is book smart with a 4.0 average through most of high school, involved in campus clubs and such. However she is not "street smart" for lack of a better term. I convinced her that canola oil comes from little gerbil-like animals (named canolas) who instinctivly flock to farms where machinery combs their greasy fur and refines it into oil. She will know anything she was taught, but she doesn't possess logic. She is now in college getting a business major, and doing well i assume. Her business plan, however, is to open a pet shop/manga store, or a bakery school (despite being a sucky cook) with a "kitty" theme. I guess you just need to figure out what kind of "smart" you are. One thing to note is that even if you drop out or don't go to college, create some killer app/product, and go the nonconformist route, you still need to know how to sell it to the the rest of the world which took the other route. I can only assume that part of the dot com downfall was lack of simple skills to appeal to the bulk of society. I have a BA in philosophy, minor in sociology, CCNA, LPI1, and none of that has to do with my job, but every bit of it was interesting and worthwhile. College is not mostly about learning what is taught, its about learning to deal with the things that happen during your stay. I don't know if this helpful at all, but I am at work, and shouldn't be screwing around anyway.

Be Modest

[FunnyPolynomial]

Yeah, get over yourself. Being bright is an accident of genetics. How would you react to someone asking, "Hey people, I'm unusually attractive, any advice?"

Things are working well for me

[shmget]

I'd consider myself a good software engineer, although I don't know that I'd consider myself "bright". My college degress are in theology. All my computing skills are self-taught or learned by working in the industry.

If you decide to work as a software developer, I'd recommend to get a CS degree. If you don't, it may be difficult to get your foot in the door, and then you may not be regarded very well by your peers that have technical degrees.

I started my own software company about 8 months ago, and things have worked out to where my salary is comparable as a contractor to a software engineer, but I had to leave working a full-time job in order to get paid an equal salary.

So in short, it can be done doing things non-traditionally, but you will have to work hard, and you may pay the price financially for your decisions. And like many other posters have said, when you get to college, you will be challenged by other people who are much better and smarter. Best thing to do is don't cop an attitude, and learn all you can from many different types of people.

And remember that some people with technical degrees are out of work and can't get jobs, so a technical degree doesn't necessarily guarantee a good job, either.


Life is complicated.

Success and Happiness

[nuggz]

I'll share the big secret to be successful and happy.

Find out what you want to do, then do it.

Really that's all there is to it. Most people who aren't happy set the wrong goals, they don't know what they want, or they spend their life chasing money.
Sure wealth is fun, but you still need to live life on your way.

why do people think this kid is on some high horse

[Magius_AR]

If anything I think the title ("Experience and Tips?") and the corresponding paragraph full of questions is enough to show that he's merely a smart kid seeking direction. Christ people, get over yourselves...what's with all this leaping for pitchforks? He never said he was God. He said we was a person of above-average intelligence seeking direction from other people of above-average intelligence. Lordy, this outcry shocks me. This is _not_ a pissing match people. Stop telling him to grow up and do it yourselves.

persistence

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. -- Calvin Coolidge

Highschool -vs- College

[Anonymous Coward]

I also hated highschool, so much so I dropped out to go to college. I took my GED and started attending college based on SAT scores, in what would have been my junior year. I wouldn't necessarily advice this.

I found college to be a much more rewarding environment. I'd attend college perpetually if I could afford it.

Even without a highschool degree (but with a BS in CS) I landed a job in IT I'm happy with. I'd simply suggest you take a few classes in college on subjects your interested in. I think you'll find it a change for the better...

Re:Take oddball courses and challenge your self-im

[John Harrison]

You're probably going to hate college/university if you've hated school up to this point.

Maybe, maybe not. If he is a smart as he thinks he is (unlikely but possible) and just hasn't been challenged yet then he should go to the best univeristy he can get in to and there will be plenty of people/courses to challenge him and he'll enjoy the intellectual and social stimulation. There is a big difference between being a big fish in a small pond (high school) and being an average fish in a large pond. This might appeal to him.

If he isn't as smart as he thinks he is then he will quickly find this out at any large public institution.

In either case he is going to find out quickly that being "bright" will only get you so far.

I had friends in high school who were smart, creative, and rejected the system. They figured that they were smarted than their teachers once they got to college, which might have been true, but they got nowhere fast. I know other people that weren't as smart, but worked hard and didn't have an over-inflated opinion of themselves. They are doctors now. Moral of the story? Hard work can be more important than being exceptionally bright.

Replying Constructively

[stgabriel]

Actually, intelligence isn't necessarily genetic, its a matter of training and mental exercise. Perhaps the most important thing to realise, if you're intelligence, is ones own shortcomings. Intelligence can be powerful for learning, but doesn't imply 'good judgement'. I think the most important advice is to cultivate 'character' and realise that in seeking out people to 'be around', that good character and judgement (or wisdom) is much more important than simply intelligence. Intelligence and curiosity has value, but knowing how to live and be accepting and tolerant are more important skills. Learning to be happy is an untaught skill, learning how to find ones ego as 'boring and misleading' is another- but far more important than most others. Also, diversify your knowledge base, and read avidly, look into the past and read good literature through your life. You'll find it reassuring and redemptive.

Do your piles have Latin roots?

[Tau Zero]

That's the problem with words like tenacity: they can't be understood by reference to English words of one syllable, so a large fraction of the American public will not understand them.

Try using "pecuniary" to the average college student. Or even "glutton". I once found someone working in a restaurant who did not know what "glutton" meant.

Consider another mechanism

[Tau Zero]

I know of a guy who weighed 350+ and had it done. Magically the weight started dropping dramatically with no other changes (that I'm aware of).

Eating smaller portions more frequently is supposed to be good for weight loss even with the same calorie intake. Stomach stapling reduces the stomach volume and thus the amount which can be eaten at a sitting. This would enforce the many-small-meals style but at a much greater cost and risk; it would behoove one to try doing it "on the honor system" to see if it works.

Fuck that

[Inthewire]

I'd send 'em all a copy of Tom Givens'

• Fighting Smarter

, punch them in the nose, then welcome to our lovely planet Earth.

Honky Dory?

[Inthewire]

A small boat belonging to a white man?
I hope you get tired of being this stupid.

(I'd point you in the right direction, but, well, it's more fun to watch you flail in the tarpits.

Wow, fellow traveler, it's nice to hear from you..

[samphonic]

I know exactly what you're talking about -- and I guess you know to ignore the astonighing attacks against you. My answer: I was in your shoes about 25 years ago -- droppoed out of high school and started a band -- and while I had some great success and years of hard work and fun, I found out along the way that whatever you look for won't make you whole. However much you expand your mind into the universe you can't ever contain a level of sense or reason that satisfies you. Take heart, remember that the attacks on /. against you are actually a normal human protection instinct to get you in line so you don't hurt yourself. You are special, but you'll probably find that being an outsider (or whatever it is, a different seer) you inflate things in you as a floatation device so as not to drown. The attackers are just saying that to survive you can't rely on floatation devices -- you have to be ready to walk the same sidewalk as anyone else. You can do that -- and yes the fact that you see the sidewalk in a different way won't ultimately keep you off it unless you self destruct. Don't do that. Survive at all costs because you may be taking these lessons with you into the quantum fields. If not, might as well live as far as you possibly can into the dream. The universe is invested in your journey. You are not alone and never will be. I am never completely happy with myself yet I am a positive force for some loved ones who would hate to lose me. You can't guess what's ahead. Go to college if you can, trust your instincts, you will find life humbling and strange, savor the good stuff, be happy that an incredible chain of random events led to you even existing at all. Congratulations. Pass it on.

It's Easy Being Smart

[ericrolph]

Maybe you are a serious genius, you take my advice and write about how I changed the course of your life for the better. If that's true, I hope you succeed splendidly.

First, it pays enough to live, no more. Second, despite the pay, I am more happy than I have thought imaginable. I love my job. My job and the career I would recommend is that of the documentarian/journalist.

I am smart guy, but realized when I started a major in biology, that the degree required too much rote memorization - a skill that frustrated my call to rule the world through evil mutant fruit flies. I'm smart, but I haven't the memory for hard science.

PIcking up the pieces of my college experience, I experimented with various degree programs, finally working with my University to create a major that incorporated many of the interests I developed while searching for collegiate direction.

The curriculum I developed was entitled 'Visual Anthropology.' At the time, no undergraduate program in the world offered this program - a few graduate schools had. The program combined my interest in evolutionary biology, social research, the purely technical, creative interests in documentation, and the visual arts. Basically, I learned how to be a science reporter and gloried field researcher.

Journalism and documentarians make great careers for people who like to become intensely interested in topics for a short time, are creative and smart. Take a broad spectrum of college classes from film history to computer science, make sure to cover technical areas such as of photography, writing, and filmmaking. It doesn't hurt to take an interest in art theory and develop an appreciation for story telling.

Good luck!

Re:It's Easy Being Smart

[ericrolph]

And, by the way, look me up at my company when you're ready for an internship. I handle directing all the *cough* slave labor.

Become a MENSA member first

[cheros]

Stating that you're bright yourself is substantially different from having an independent organisation state you are. The former will likely (deservedly) yield disbelief, with the latter you have at least a starting point. Get yourself tested by MENSA, and have a browse of their site. And, of course, if you fail you may have to find another reason for being 'different' (evil grin ;-)

Re:Jesus

[Quickfoot]

Just because you or other people are like him does not mean he doesn't have a syndrome, it is very likely he and you may have a syndrome.

There is a very large portion of our society that has Aspergers and high functioning autism that have not been diagnosed or have been diagnosed incorrectly.

ADD, ADHD, Aspergers and Autism do exist, you show your obvious lack of knowledge on this matter by your inability to articulate without using childish cuss words, go get a dictionary, graduate from high school and come back later kid.

RIF...

[duckyDan]

I've been served well by incorporating a lifetime reading plan. Starting with the one outlined in the appendix of HOW TO READ A BOOK, by Adler and Fadiman, I've added a few non-Western classics to my list, and I still have time to peruse slashdot!

A fresh reply...

[cavemanf16]

...from someone who was in exactly your position 9 years ago.

I graduated high school in the top half of my class (of only 75 students, private school with a lot of overachiever types in my particular class), but thought I was hot stuff and wanted to be a fighter pilot in the US Air Force. Went to a private college for two years majoring in Comp Sci and HATED IT! Came back to my home town metropolis to go back to the old state school (which is a good one too, but BIG!) to pursue engineering of some sort. HATED IT! Eventually started working part-time in a call center, doing school part-time, then working full-time and dropped out of school, and now I'm back in school at DeVry (HATE IT because of it's less than stellar academics) and plan on finally completing my degree in 2 more years going part-time while working full-time still.

BTW, I am now in a job that pays roughly what a fresh-out-of-college comp sci major would make (maybe a bit more) and enjoy my job but still struggle with dealing with the business types who just aren't as well-read or interested in so many intellectual things as I am.

My advice: Go to your local community college or the cheapest school in your area that you can transfer college credits from when you move on to a more challenging college to complete your major. Take all of the undergrad courses that you find to be a waste of your time (for me it was English, Social Sciences, and the Economics 101 type courses) at the community college. Not because they're worthless, but because you're not interested in them and probably won't excel at them, so don't waste the money on them at a more expensive school. Just get the credits with high grades.

Next, find a job, any part-time job, that you would somewhat like to do. Help desk tech support, cable installer, carpenter, whatever. This will keep the money coming in, and at the same time train you on the importance of your college education. If you're like me, you'll find that you'll soon grow tired of your job, you'll be excelling at it like no one else you work with, and you're attention will remain focused on completing that higher education to work with SMARTER PEOPLE!

Finally, transfer those credits you earned at community college into a bigger and/or better university when you're ready to begin your major. Quit working (unless you have the flexibility and energy to continue working) and really focus hard on whatever it is you've decided you love to study in depth.

I really wish I had been more thoughtful about the future of my life outside of high school when I was your age since I'd probably have gone on to a master's or PhD program by now, and have a better handle on the direction I should take my career. I have consistently scored as an INTP/Entreprenaur/Innovator type on the various personality traits tests that one can take over the past couple of years, and really wish I had been more thoughtful (and less willing to get away from the parents) when I was younger. As for all those who took the time to slam you for posting your question, shame on them! At first I felt like laughing when I saw the posting headline, but after reading your post I realized you have many of the same questions I had a few years ago.

Realize that your intelligence and drive are in different areas than the mass of our civilized society's values. Many of the "college grads" that I live around now are completely clueless meatheads and ex-sorority girls (as my wife and I like to joke about) who really don't have much of a clue about good taste, appropriate behavior in our society, or thirst for knowledge and understanding. I LOVE learning, just as you, but don't feel bad for not wanting to learn the way everyone else does just by drudging through 4 years of college in huge lecture halls with boring professors. Use those smarts to do things in a manner that fewer people have the insight to do.

As one previous poster mentioned, it'd be great to work for a bit, save some money up to go to a foreign country for a y

Monkey words!

[Grendel Drago]

Do you really think folks care if a committee gets together to decide whether something may or may not be a word? I don't.

Neither do I. I do care that it's an ugly word, constructed for no good reason. A better one already exists.

If a word is used often enough by people, then it's a valid construction as a fait accompli.

And yet using the word still makes you sound retarded. I really don't care how many people say 'bling-bling' either, for instance---it's a retarded word.

--grendel drago

Get Help

[stonewolf]

Oddly enough, you sound very much like me. Only I never suffered from such a high opinion of my self. It took me a long time to find out why I was as odd as you say you are. And yes, you are odd. Not gifted. No, not at all. Odd.

Turns out I am a serious INTP, pegged all most all the way over on the scale on everything except the P part. Plus, I have an attentional disorder, a near genius (but, NOT, genius) IQ, and a serious overdose of creativity. You could be completely different, but you need to find out while it is still easy to adapt. Consult a shrink.

With help you can learn to live in the real world. As it is, you sound like you are on your way off the deep end. The most dangerous part of this whole deal is that by belonging to a very small population you may go your entire life without ever meeting anyone else like you. You may never meet anyone you can relate to. That loneliness leads to depression, which leads to suicide.

Take Care

Stonewolf

Conform then escape

[tartarugo]

You might be capable of extraordinary things, but then again maybe you're dellusional. You'll have to find out which without running into a dead-end.

My advice is to build a safety net by acquiring marketable skills, either thru college or thru self-learning. Get a job, live a standard if unsatisfying life for a while, prove that you can make it on THEIR terms. Then escape. Find a pet project or two, spare some money, and follow your vision. You may succeed or you may fail, but failure should not be cataclismic, and you should be able to resume a standard life, which has much going for it. And at least you will have tried, as opposed to the great unwashed masses.

Good luck!

YHBT

[immyz]

this is the biggest population I've ever known to be trolled on Slashdot!

Re:THE PURPOSE TO LIFE (420)

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you must have scored some killer weed to have written something like that. Mind telling us where we can get some?

all right...

[nothingHappens]

I thought about this a couple days because you remind me a lot of my younger self with the possible exception that you might have some actual social skills. But if not, I think my advice will help a bit there too. Basically, I'll advise you to do what I wish I'd done. Take a break. Not from life, or work, just from school. I suspect you're sick of school. You think college will be different, but basically, college is just more school, only a little bit harder because nobody's nursemaiding you through it. Also, you're not really sure what you want to do with your life. I think it's a load of bunk that we expect 18-year-olds to choose career paths. Probably your teachers have talked about how bright you are all your life in terms of your being "gifted", as if some divine lightning bolt struck you in the womb and made you special. The truth is a little more mundane. You've just managed not to let them bore it out of you. Kids are naturally born curious, bust most of them lose it once they get into school and get the idea that learning is something being inflicted upon them against their will by a bunch of boring old people they don't even really know. A few of us manage to accidentally not fall into that trap; as Mark Twain put it, "I never let my schooling interfere with my education." If you love learning, then go learn; school need not be requisite to that. You can learn from everything around you and everything you do or that happens to you, as well as from reading and studying things on your own. And much of what can be learned there turns out to come in handy in college, which you should be able to put off a couple years, and I really believe most people should do so. Instead, just take some time to do some regular living, and learn how that works. Learn how to be an adult. Maybe get an apartment with a couple friends as roommates. Work the kinds of jobs you can get without a college education; develop a work ethic. That will help you immensely once you do finally go to college. You'll also learn a lot from interacting with people you never thought you had anything in common with, and the workplace is a great place to do that. Travel a bit if you can work it out, and especially if you can pay your own way doing it, even by picking up day labor along the way, or whatever. Don't turn down any experience you have a chance to have, because you probably won't have a lot of those chances again down the road once you've got a career and family to take care of. If you're musically inclined, start a rock band; write dodgy poetry and read it aloud in front of strangers; anything that gets you communicating in front of an audience will be valuable. Party your ass off a few times. Get arrested. For Bog's sake DON'T knock anyone up (or get knocked up, I guess I don't know your gender from the post). As for the more strictly "scholarly" pursuits, there's always spare time, bookstores, the public library. Delve into several subjects on your own. Try to learn a little something about everything that interests you. Read it, think about it, try it. Eventually you will get a little more focus and find what excites you most. Live and read and live some more. Most of all, do all these things on your own dime. Depend on mom and/or dad for as little as possible, and take only that which they offer off their own free will, and probably not all of that. Become resourceful as well as intelligent. There's no law that says you have to go to college right out of high school, and I think our society makes a huge mistake by pushing young people to do so, before they really have any perspective with which to decide what they really want out of life. Besides, you're only young once, take advantage of the relatively few big attachments and responsibilities you have right now, and in the process get a better focus and perspective on what you really want to do with your life. (Also, after age 25, your parents' income doesn't count on financial aid applications anymore, so the loans and grants and things get sweet

Re:Jesus

[dustinbarbour]

Firstly, I have graduated high school AND am now working on a Master's in CS. (gasp!!) As far as this syndrome business, I see these so-called "syndromes" s merely deviations from our current norm. Which means no freakin' syndrome. He's merely different. Psychologists and psychiatrists like to think they're important and thus have a big giant book describing a billion different "syndromes." it's all crap. Variation is natural and inevitable. Perhaps this guy is merely a step ahead of everyone else in evolution. Perhaps a step behind or off to the side. The point is, just because you're different doesn't mean you have a syndrome. "Quick, quick! He has a syndrome! Give him some astronomically overpriced medication! Send him to a psychologist t find the root of the problem (at a rate of $125/hr, nonetheless)!"