" i.e. if you've got the money to spend, you get more bang for the buck in the end."
To be fair, this product doesn't even qualify on that level. You mention later in your post using it for web stuff, email, etc, but for that $800, there is a lot more you could do with a desktop machine. Heck, you can even get a superior laptop for about that much. Maybe chuck in an extra $100 or 2, but then you'd get more pixels to play with and a DVD player. That touch screen is a spendy proposition.
"how much time have you wasted doing viruses on your $2000 PC?"
0.
" how much time do you figure you'll waste on the Pepper, with regards to this issue, compared to how much you'll use it?"
The entire preface of my post was that it was in my opinion. The Pepper is not suitable to me as a laptop or computer replacement. Well... replacement is a harsh term. Hopefully you know what I mean given the circumstances you outlined. I used my Tablet as my only machine for nearly the entire time I've had it. (I finally got my desktop running last week, recently moved...) I could use it, but as it stands, it wouldn't be as worth $800 as my Tablet is worth $2000. I stand by that.
It is a niche product. It will have a limited market. Nothing wrong with pointing that out. I agree that negativity isn't all that useful, but practicality is. The people who buy this are those who have the $800 to throw at it, not those who only have $800 to spend on a computer product.
" i mean, c'mon, you gotta crap on the Pepper because its 'underwhelming' compared to your $2000 system?"
Yeah I see your point, believe it or not. I get annoyed at people getting modded up for saying "It's not interesting!" Guess I'm guilty of that, too.
I should have spelled my thoughts out a little more clearly. For 2.5x the price, you get an actual laptop replacement with stronger capabilities, as opposed to a fancy PDA. In that light, at least from my point of view, it's easier to budget the money. It's harder to spend $800 on a PDA than $2,000 is for a laptop. I don't mean in having the actual money, but in justification for it. To put it another way, which is a better use of money: $10 of fast food, or $50 of groceries.
Sorry I didn't spell this out a little more clearly in my original post.
"Or possibly even buy a small TV... Or is that a little too far out?"
If he doesn't have one right now, then there's probably a pretty good reason. Maybe he doesn't have enough space. Maybe he has satellite or something and he'd have to rely on bunny ears to get reception. Maybe he specifically wants a "Watch what MythTV has recorded" device in his bedroom and making his current TV do that is a bit challenging. Maybe he doesn't want to spend $200'ish on a TV when he could spend $300'ish on something with broader capabilities.
I wish the karma system here hadn't made people so damn skeptical about everything.
"WHen I get a job and can afford $800 dollars ill buy one in a heart beat, lets just hope it can run the mythfrontend so I can watch tv in bed."
$300 gets you a Dell Axim with a 600 mhz processor and built in 802.11. If your intent is to watch recorded video in bed, it might be worth investigating if this will do the job.
I'm suggesting it because I have a TabletPC that I sometimes use to watch TV in bed. Despite the fact that its' small and light weight, an hour holding this up in bed is actually a bit of a strain. I'd prefer a PocketPC (or Palm, not picky) for that.
I just wanted to suggest that in case you manage it. If I ever build another pc based PVR again, that's exactly what I'm going to do.
Hmm this might have been neat a year or so ago, but I'm a little underwhelmed with it. Just a couple of months ago I bought a Toshiba M-200 TabletPC. Granted, it's over twice the price of this guy ($2,000...) but lemme share with you the specs:
-Centrino 1.5 ghz processor. -1400 by 1050 resolution screen -512 meg of RAM -40 gig HD -It doesn't use the touch screen, rather the Wacom digitizer for the stylus. This means pressure sensitivity, but it means you can ONLY use the stylus for input.
-NVidia Go5200 card. -3-4 hour battery life. (I've reached a little over 3 with it.)
-It works in both slate mode, and it can unfold like a laptop with a kb...etc. etc. etc...
I do like some of the things they're doing with this machine, but... well... it's hard to really get excited now that I have this M200 machine.
"Given all these reports that Java code can be made almost as quick as c/c++ (especially when number crunching), if not faster, why hasn't this happened before?"
Who wants yet another video codec on the web?
Don't worry, I agree with you that it should have happened sooner, but I can't ignore the former life I led where I worked at a company making web video technology. It was typically "make it work in WMP or Real Player or get it." Can't say I blame them, their audiences didn't demonstrate interest in installing plugins or viewers.
(I should mention that at the time, computers topped out at 400mhz. And that was their high end customers. Nobody would have thought Java would be capable of something like that. It may not have been at the time, but I wouldn't know.)
"As to Microsoft's actual programming efforts to improve security, I'm hoping that "too little, too late" isn't going to be the final assessment."
At first I felt that way, but I dunno. The one nice thing about MS's monopoly is that every generation of computers means a lot of people get a Windows upgrade. If they do fix Windows, in a year or two most people will have it. That sorta make sense?
But that's the optimist in me. MS is making fancy features and THEN locking them down. The other approach is to restrict fancy features until they're locked down, then you get unhappy customers. *Sigh*
"Do you really think it will deter others from doing the same thing?"
Will it deter script kiddies? Oh I think so. I dunno about somebody who's really harshly intent on doing it, but most of my friends back when I was at an age where I'd try this would turn me in for a nickel.
"Or will the people who are crafty enough to be able to offer zombied systems "for sale" simply look at it as a high profile bust that makes their job easier because it gives their targets a false sense of security?"
That's possible. But, I wouldn't make the argument that fewer people trying to write exploits would not be a good thing. Sorry aobut the double negative, but I hope you get my point. One analogy I use is fingerprinting. It's VERY easy to defeat being detected through fingerprints, but people are still busted for violent crimes via fingerprints anyway. If they had just dropped fingerprinting because "any old fool could just put on a glove" then a good deal of crimes would go unsolved. (It's not the most direct relation to what you said, but do you get my point?)
"And to Microsoft its just money well spent on PR that's cheaper than actually fixing the problem?"
I believe that the assumption that MS is putting money into rewards instead of fixing the problem is in error. As I said before, it's a complex battle. Let me put it to you another way: No matter how secure a platform is, if somebody is really really intent on causing mischief, can they really be definitively stopped? Wouldn't you like the added layer of protection of knowing that they would have conseuqences if they really put that much energy into it? MS did the right thing here.
"So how did their efforts stack up against the zombie systems for sale to anyone willing to drop $2,000 to $3,000?"
Better than not doing it. It's a multi-faceted problem. The systems need to be made more secure AND there needs to be deterrance from writing stuff like that. MS is using their massive fortune to work on that angle. Who else is doing that?
"Given the above, I don't see Mr. Gates as having been concerned about security in the past or being currently concerned about security."
Speculative.
"I also see little hope that Microsloth will turn over a new leaf and suddenly actually do something about their insecure bloatware in the future."
Too late. They've been improving it steadily for a while now. For example: SP2 comes with a firewall. Not only does it work a little harder to prevent intrusions, but it finally gives people an alert to when something is trying to get to the net.
Earlier today, Slashdot had a story about Longhorn being able to turn off USB storage devices. That's another security feature that's interesting.
Okay, MS's security is laughable, but you cannot say that they're not trying to fix it. They have a mountain to climb here and they're steadily keeping pace on it. (Server 03 comes to mind.) All while maintaining usability. It's fashionable to hate MS and all, but man, it sure creates some bizarre arguments. "MS is evil for putting out rewards to catch virus writers!"
"Microsoft would rather pay out a paltry $250,000 to nail some stupid script kiddie who is dumb enough to make his exploits known rather that actually improve the security of their bloatware"
Argument rejected: MS is doing both, not one or the other.
""Last night, CBS News released a set of memos dated 1972 and 1973 that are purported to raise questions about President Bush's National Guard service."
30 years ago. Ugh. That's soooOOoo relevent today. This is why I hate politics. Anything is an issue, anything is fair game. Anybody who's basing their votes on this issue seriously needs to reconsider their priorities.
Slashdot Mirror
"Perhaps that's how they spell it on Seti Alpha Five? "
There's no way that Admiral Kirk would allow that change to basic human language to be made!
(to any of you nodding your head in agreement, the mystery of why you don't have a significant other has been solved.)
"At that time, hardly anybody doubted that the music would be encoded optically on a round plastic disc the size of a CD.'"
Thanks for putting the nail in that coffin, Apple! Surely a key factor in the iPod's success is in its size.
"But then I want isolinear chips from startreck, so feel free to ignore me :) "
I ignored you because of your atroshus* spelling of Trek. Commander Data, you are not.
"This is rarely the case wtih my XP box. slashdot is not "apple biased" it's "anti MS.." get it straight. "
Pity it isn't pointed out enough that if *nix/OSX doesn't have the driver, they're typically SOL until somebody cooks up one.
I'm going to get scorched pretty heavily for saying this, but there are upsides to MS's monopoly.
Hehe. Nothing insightful to say, just found your analogy amusing. :)
Have a good weekend.
" like a little kiddie loser who thinks he has the better shit"
:)
Hehhe. Yeah yeah, I'd be soOOoo bothered by that if not for this little comment I was responding to:
"it can kick the crap out of your lil tablet that you BLEW 2000 dollars on."
You sure that was directed at me?
Yeah, I knew you wouldn't have a reply to that.
;)
"Whoop-de-doo, I have a few more megahertz to play with. That's sooOOooo much cooler than all the tablet features."
Face it, you got what you paid for.
"we you say the car reviewed suckes comapared to a car that cost 2.5 times the cost?"
If the cheaper car was cheap because it couldn't be driven on highways, then yes, that'd be an ok analogy.
"it can kick the crap out of your lil tablet that you BLEW 2000 dollars on. why waste money and not shop around? "
Heh. Because I'm an artist and I need the Wacom Digitizer.
Oops, guess I didn't 'blow $2000'.
" i.e. if you've got the money to spend, you get more bang for the buck in the end."
To be fair, this product doesn't even qualify on that level. You mention later in your post using it for web stuff, email, etc, but for that $800, there is a lot more you could do with a desktop machine. Heck, you can even get a superior laptop for about that much. Maybe chuck in an extra $100 or 2, but then you'd get more pixels to play with and a DVD player. That touch screen is a spendy proposition.
"how much time have you wasted doing viruses on your $2000 PC?"
0.
" how much time do you figure you'll waste on the Pepper, with regards to this issue, compared to how much you'll use it?"
The entire preface of my post was that it was in my opinion. The Pepper is not suitable to me as a laptop or computer replacement. Well... replacement is a harsh term. Hopefully you know what I mean given the circumstances you outlined. I used my Tablet as my only machine for nearly the entire time I've had it. (I finally got my desktop running last week, recently moved...) I could use it, but as it stands, it wouldn't be as worth $800 as my Tablet is worth $2000. I stand by that.
It is a niche product. It will have a limited market. Nothing wrong with pointing that out. I agree that negativity isn't all that useful, but practicality is. The people who buy this are those who have the $800 to throw at it, not those who only have $800 to spend on a computer product.
" i mean, c'mon, you gotta crap on the Pepper because its 'underwhelming' compared to your $2000 system?"
Yeah I see your point, believe it or not. I get annoyed at people getting modded up for saying "It's not interesting!" Guess I'm guilty of that, too.
I should have spelled my thoughts out a little more clearly. For 2.5x the price, you get an actual laptop replacement with stronger capabilities, as opposed to a fancy PDA. In that light, at least from my point of view, it's easier to budget the money. It's harder to spend $800 on a PDA than $2,000 is for a laptop. I don't mean in having the actual money, but in justification for it. To put it another way, which is a better use of money: $10 of fast food, or $50 of groceries.
Sorry I didn't spell this out a little more clearly in my original post.
"So, how's your job in Redmond nowadays? Have your options vested yet?"
I'm surprised Linus lets you talk with your mouth full.
"forget it, fool. if you don't know the difference between $2000 and $800, send me $1200 and i'll tell you!"
Heh. Funny thing is I pointed out the price difference to avoid shitheaded comments like this.
"Or possibly even buy a small TV... Or is that a little too far out?"
If he doesn't have one right now, then there's probably a pretty good reason. Maybe he doesn't have enough space. Maybe he has satellite or something and he'd have to rely on bunny ears to get reception. Maybe he specifically wants a "Watch what MythTV has recorded" device in his bedroom and making his current TV do that is a bit challenging. Maybe he doesn't want to spend $200'ish on a TV when he could spend $300'ish on something with broader capabilities.
I wish the karma system here hadn't made people so damn skeptical about everything.
"WHen I get a job and can afford $800 dollars ill buy one in a heart beat, lets just hope it can run the mythfrontend so I can watch tv in bed."
$300 gets you a Dell Axim with a 600 mhz processor and built in 802.11. If your intent is to watch recorded video in bed, it might be worth investigating if this will do the job.
I'm suggesting it because I have a TabletPC that I sometimes use to watch TV in bed. Despite the fact that its' small and light weight, an hour holding this up in bed is actually a bit of a strain. I'd prefer a PocketPC (or Palm, not picky) for that.
I just wanted to suggest that in case you manage it. If I ever build another pc based PVR again, that's exactly what I'm going to do.
"It's $800. I don't know if the value provided is worth 800 dollars."
That depends on how much you put into it, really. Something like this is less about what it can do and more about what you can do with it.
Hmm this might have been neat a year or so ago, but I'm a little underwhelmed with it. Just a couple of months ago I bought a Toshiba M-200 TabletPC. Granted, it's over twice the price of this guy ($2,000...) but lemme share with you the specs:
..etc. etc. etc...
... well... it's hard to really get excited now that I have this M200 machine.
-Centrino 1.5 ghz processor.
-1400 by 1050 resolution screen
-512 meg of RAM
-40 gig HD
-It doesn't use the touch screen, rather the Wacom digitizer for the stylus. This means pressure sensitivity, but it means you can ONLY use the stylus for input.
-NVidia Go5200 card.
-3-4 hour battery life. (I've reached a little over 3 with it.)
-It works in both slate mode, and it can unfold like a laptop with a kb.
I do like some of the things they're doing with this machine, but
"Given all these reports that Java code can be made almost as quick as c/c++ (especially when number crunching), if not faster, why hasn't this happened before?"
Who wants yet another video codec on the web?
Don't worry, I agree with you that it should have happened sooner, but I can't ignore the former life I led where I worked at a company making web video technology. It was typically "make it work in WMP or Real Player or get it." Can't say I blame them, their audiences didn't demonstrate interest in installing plugins or viewers.
(I should mention that at the time, computers topped out at 400mhz. And that was their high end customers. Nobody would have thought Java would be capable of something like that. It may not have been at the time, but I wouldn't know.)
"1500 channels sounds good, but what are they going to do for content?"
The Star Trek Channel, the A Team Channel, the Quantum Leap Channel, the Will and Grace Channel, the Cowboy Neal Channel....
"What exactly is the definition of a moon?"
When the ring around uranus is visible, that's mooning.
"As to Microsoft's actual programming efforts to improve security, I'm hoping that "too little, too late" isn't going to be the final assessment."
At first I felt that way, but I dunno. The one nice thing about MS's monopoly is that every generation of computers means a lot of people get a Windows upgrade. If they do fix Windows, in a year or two most people will have it. That sorta make sense?
But that's the optimist in me. MS is making fancy features and THEN locking them down. The other approach is to restrict fancy features until they're locked down, then you get unhappy customers. *Sigh*
"Do you really think it will deter others from doing the same thing?"
Will it deter script kiddies? Oh I think so. I dunno about somebody who's really harshly intent on doing it, but most of my friends back when I was at an age where I'd try this would turn me in for a nickel.
"Or will the people who are crafty enough to be able to offer zombied systems "for sale" simply look at it as a high profile bust that makes their job easier because it gives their targets a false sense of security?"
That's possible. But, I wouldn't make the argument that fewer people trying to write exploits would not be a good thing. Sorry aobut the double negative, but I hope you get my point. One analogy I use is fingerprinting. It's VERY easy to defeat being detected through fingerprints, but people are still busted for violent crimes via fingerprints anyway. If they had just dropped fingerprinting because "any old fool could just put on a glove" then a good deal of crimes would go unsolved. (It's not the most direct relation to what you said, but do you get my point?)
"And to Microsoft its just money well spent on PR that's cheaper than actually fixing the problem?"
I believe that the assumption that MS is putting money into rewards instead of fixing the problem is in error. As I said before, it's a complex battle. Let me put it to you another way: No matter how secure a platform is, if somebody is really really intent on causing mischief, can they really be definitively stopped? Wouldn't you like the added layer of protection of knowing that they would have conseuqences if they really put that much energy into it? MS did the right thing here.
"So how did their efforts stack up against the zombie systems for sale to anyone willing to drop $2,000 to $3,000?"
Better than not doing it. It's a multi-faceted problem. The systems need to be made more secure AND there needs to be deterrance from writing stuff like that. MS is using their massive fortune to work on that angle. Who else is doing that?
"Given the above, I don't see Mr. Gates as having been concerned about security in the past or being currently concerned about security."
Speculative.
"I also see little hope that Microsloth will turn over a new leaf and suddenly actually do something about their insecure bloatware in the future."
Too late. They've been improving it steadily for a while now. For example: SP2 comes with a firewall. Not only does it work a little harder to prevent intrusions, but it finally gives people an alert to when something is trying to get to the net.
Earlier today, Slashdot had a story about Longhorn being able to turn off USB storage devices. That's another security feature that's interesting.
Okay, MS's security is laughable, but you cannot say that they're not trying to fix it. They have a mountain to climb here and they're steadily keeping pace on it. (Server 03 comes to mind.) All while maintaining usability. It's fashionable to hate MS and all, but man, it sure creates some bizarre arguments. "MS is evil for putting out rewards to catch virus writers!"
Whatever.
"Microsoft would rather pay out a paltry $250,000 to nail some stupid script kiddie who is dumb enough to make his exploits known rather that actually improve the security of their bloatware"
Argument rejected: MS is doing both, not one or the other.
""Last night, CBS News released a set of memos dated 1972 and 1973 that are purported to raise questions about President Bush's National Guard service."
30 years ago. Ugh. That's soooOOoo relevent today. This is why I hate politics. Anything is an issue, anything is fair game. Anybody who's basing their votes on this issue seriously needs to reconsider their priorities.
You're right. They should leave the ability to disable USB devices until every other door can be closed at the same time.