Pepper Pad 2 Linux Web Pad

`Sean writes "Pepper Computer debuted their $800 Pepper Pad 2 at DEMOmobile 2004 this week. Specs include a 624 MHz XScale processor, 8.4" 800x600 TFT touchscreen, 802.11b+g, and 20 GB HDD running MontaVista Linux CEE. Out of the box the Pepper Pad 2 loads the Pepper Keeper as its GUI, but a full-blown Linux distribution with Java 2 JRE and X-Window System is sitting under the covers just waiting be customized. I personally can't wait to get a hold of one of these to turn into an OBD-II and telemetry workstation for the rally car."

Comments

But is it a pad?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not quite clear to me.

Re:But is it a pad?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I stuff it in my pants and then ban my subnet?

Media Player

[EEproms_Galore]

This would make a great portable media player with a bit of hacking.. Hmmm I sooo want one.

Re:Media Player

[anonymous cowherd (m]

Not really. If you look at the specs, it measures 12" by 6" by 0.8" and weighs 2.8 pounds. You're better off using a portable media player such as an iPod as a portable media player.

Re:Media Player

[Anonymous Coward]

no, windows media player is not available in this release. perhaps the next version.

Re:Media Player

[Awptimus Prime]

Sadly, this is all I can imagine myself ever using one for. That is, if I were to ever own such an expensive novelty. I think it is cool, just not too terribly useful.

For $800 I could get a pretty nice laptop and a 4-pack of Redbull.

Re:Media Player

[Anonymous Coward]

mplayer has actually handled almost all wmv/asf I've thrown at it fine. and you'd have to clueless to want windows media player for the bloated interface..

Re:Media Player

[nutznboltz]

When we say "media" we don't me "just audio."

doom 3 !!

[Anonymous Coward]

umm... can it run Doom 3 ??

Re:doom 3 !!

[phreakv6]

No it won't
It has only 32MB video RAM.check the specs here

Re:doom 3 !!

[polecat_redux]

It ships with a 624 MHz proc, huh? That's about 2.5 MHz for each process run by Windows XP on startup....

IR !

[phreakv6]

Oh it also has IR... hmm.. so u can use it as a TV remote !!

Re:IR !

[Anonymous Coward]

But you can't use it as a remote.

Re:IR !

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, Bridget Jones, you didn't!? You sassy bitch!

Re:IR !

[`Sean]

Oh it also has IR... hmm.. so u can use it as a TV remote !!

Why is this moderated as Funny? We put high-power IR emitters on the Pad for a reason...

Is this up to the standards of Windows Tablets?

[notthe9]

I realize it is a lot cheaper, but I amnto sure it is worth it. Does the XScale processor pack the necessary punch? I know I have one (albeit a probably inferior one) in my Toshiba e740, which has many of the qualities this thing brags about. Also, is this an actual touch screen? If so, this is unfortunate Having used Tablets before, I really enjoyed the special pens, and would think this would make a great picture. Also, that thumb keyboard looks quite lacking, and considering they are not bragging about their handwriting recognition, it probably also leaves something to be desired. At this point, I think I could get a lot more functionality out of a laptop or one of those tablets-that-runs-your-pc-iver-wifi things than I necesarily would this.

Re:Is this up to the standards of Windows Tablets?

[jaxdahl]

If you're looking for a tablet of some sort that you can draw on directly for photoshop and such, check out Wacom's Cintiq line -- basically an LCD monitor with a pen touchscreen. They start at $1500 and up for 15" monitors. A PC is required, though, to use them. LCD Tablets

Re:Is this up to the standards of Windows Tablets?

[fermion]

From the point of view of a person tht does not know much of the technical differences between tablets, but does know computers and hope to own a tablet in a couple years, I think the pepper pad fills a need.

First, it is light. Most other tablets wieght as much as my laptop, around 4 pounds, give or take a pound. This only wieghs 2 pounds.

Second, it realized that it is not a desktop. The ports are minimial and focus on wireless connectivity. I can use a keyboard and mouse, but do not have to worry about plugging them in.

Third, the keyboard seems to admit the fact that handwriting recognition has a long way to go. As far as I know, specially formed single letters is still the most reliable. I had keyboards for my newton and palm for the times where it was neccesary to enter more than a few lines of text.

In the end, I thik this is a tablet that does not pretend to be a laptop, and accepts the limits of technolgy. So, although I am sure the Window XP things are better, they seem to be more concerned with competing with laptops rather than providing a new unique solution.

Re:Is this up to the standards of Windows Tablets?

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Many of the Tablet PCs actually use touch technology from Wacom. If you use a tablet PC, you'll notice that the cursor moves when you hover the stylus above the touch surface - just like a Wacom tablet. Most Tablet PCs are also pressure and angle sensitive.

Re:Is this up to the standards of Windows Tablets?

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't a lot cheaper. There are Viewsonic, and some other Tablet PCs that go for less than $800.

Re:Is this up to the standards of Windows Tablets?

[drinkypoo]

If they use a stylus with no batteries, then they're using wacom's patent. However, the technology is actually Nikola Tesla's, at least in terms of powering the stylus. Aside from that the technology for detecting pressure and tilt is not only pretty well known, but far too old to be covered by a patent.

Low Cost Linux SBCs?

[DAldredge]

Where can you buy low cost Single Board Computer that can run linux? Kind of like the one in the WRT54g?

Re:Low Cost Linux SBCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out Gumstix SBC's. They seem to cater to individual hobbyists, and the prices look right.

Re:Low Cost Linux SBCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out Soekris Engineering.

Re:Low Cost Linux SBCs?

[burnin1965]

This really isn't an SBC, but its a very small, low power, and low cost motherboard + processor that costs about the same as some SBCs but has many times more processing power.

http://www.viamainboards.com/product/index.jsp

Re:Low Cost Linux SBCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Problem is that they don't know a damn thing about their own product. I've contacted them several times to ask if their small computer had VGA out, and I've never gotten a straight answer. I just wanted to know if their small computer included it or if a daughter card is available for it or their gumstix version. I'm ready to buy 1k of them for a project if they do support it, and if I can get them at $90 each for 1k. Instead, I'm still looking for a solution. I might have to punt and just use an ITX board I found with VGA-out for $75 + RAM.

They also didn't know where to buy a non-surface mount version of the Hirose DF12C connectors that's required to use their device. It's a pain working with connectors that are proprietary and only available from a single source and not available in a usable form.

Re:Low Cost Linux SBCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a linksys NSLU2.

Splash resistant!

[panth0r]

For the hacker/cracker on the go, looking to break into all those Wi-Fi networks around pools, this model comes "[r]uggedized and splash resistant." Although one would not suggest one using any computer around a pool.

Re:Splash resistant!

[secretsquirel]

If your cracking/hacking on the go, you might as well have a laptop with a full keyboard and save some time.

OMG OMG OMG

[Anonymous Coward]

I am going to get this thing. I need to get this thing.

624xscale proccessor.
20gig harddrive
800x600 lcd display.

RUNS LINUX.

This thing is fucking mine. I want one, I am going to get one. I neeeeeed one.

Does it have USB??
Or should get a blue tooth keyboard?

But....

[saden1]

It's $800. I don't know if the value provided is worth 800 dollars.

Re:But....

[anonymous cowherd (m]

Personally, I'd rather have a Sharp Zaurus SL 5600 with an added GPS unit. Different use cases, true, but I'm certain I'd get more use out of the Zaurus.

Re:But....

[NanoGator]

"It's $800. I don't know if the value provided is worth 800 dollars."

That depends on how much you put into it, really. Something like this is less about what it can do and more about what you can do with it.

Read("red") the F atricle.

[Anonymous Coward]

OMFG Who needs a woman when you have one of these?

Seriously though, I'm really loving the idea of a sub-1000 linux based touchscreen anything

~Eric

unfortunately no

[Anonymous Coward]

the included linux distribution (a custom gentoo setup, believe it or not) does not run well on this machine. thats why its not the default. its there just to allow developers to get their feet wet.

also there is the screen, its is only 800x600, very little can be done in that workspace. battery life is
so, no.

cant help it but..

[phreakv6]

I wont but it coz 1) Looks too weird 2) split QWERTY keyboard ???? 3) can u put it in ur pocket ?

Re:cant help it but..

[Anonymous Coward]

What you should be wondering is whether you will be able type complete words on it.

I've wanted this

[Hugonz]

I've wanted this for months now. A "laptop" that instead of advertising the newest P4 processor for Barbecues (R) gives you low power, ARM (XScale) computing at the right price. Of course, It has to run linux. Good one!

Re:I've wanted this

[Anonymous Coward]

So have I. Imagine, it would make a great X terminal at home. Use the power of your desktop in a device that weighs 2.3 pounds.

It's basicly what MS's tablets promise to be, but at a third of the cost and it has the flexibility of linux.

The thing can be 3x as powerfull as a tablet PC if you have a nice dual (core?) opteron computer laying around somewere.

The business aspects of this device is also intreaging. If you use it as a X terminal, the majority of the time the harddrive will be asleep, and thus the only real things using the battery would be the display and the wireless.

A 802.11g is plenty quick for this...

Also would make a great DVD movie player once you used Mencoder to rip them into libavcodec (or the inferior Dvix or Xivd ) mpeg4 avi file.

2 pounds!!

The 600mhz proccessor would be pleny fast for any Linux machine, except if you want to play doom3 or run real transparencies or something.

everything that MS said that the tablet would be minus the suck and the price (oh and almost-working writing recognition)

Re:I've wanted this

[Spellbinder]

i got my Intel 2200 B/G working on a vaio tr2
with this

Re:I've wanted this

[mcrbids]

Great! So, being a very busy guy (and I am) I have lots of time to

1) recompile my kernel, with a new tree (using 2.4.x installed via yum/rpm)

2) recompile VMWare with a new kernel tree (good F'ing luck)

3) Futz with numerous config files so that I can

4) Read slashdot at starbucks.

Perhaps you should note my (broken) link to "http://ipw2200.sf.net"... ?

Sorry, but the IPW2200 drive would cause me to twitch uncontrollably - and you don't want to be merging on the freeway next to me when this twitch hits me.... it's not stable, doesn't support the version(s) of Linux I use, and is feature - incomplete - in an environment where you have to edit text files to connect to a wide-open hotspot.

Sorry. I love Linux and all for it's stability, but for ease-of-use it generally sucks pretty hard.

Re:I've wanted this

[jest3r]

600 Mhz is underpowered for high resolution MPEG4 decoding (you shouldn't have to reencode everything you download) ... and underpowered for hand writing recognition (isn't that supposed to the the stregth of a pad?) ... it comes with a stylus but hand writing recognition is only "almost working"? there is no composite video out (pads are usually good for presentations) ... and the pepper pad looks like a pile of garbage ... those little round thumb keys split on either side are silly ...

Re:I've wanted this

[Anonymous Coward]

It uses hardware decoding for mpeg4. Next time read the specs and you won't sound like such a moron.

"reencode what you download"? WTF are you talking about. I am talking about taking the mpeg2 from my video capture card and the mpeg2 movies from dvd's and encode them into mpeg4 to save space.

The almost working writing recognition was in reference to MS's technology, not Linux. Linux doesn't realy bother with that so far, athough if you want it there are probably excellent programs you can buy. (that's because most linux folks can type a hell of a lot faster then they can write, unlike I guess what Bill thinks of his customers.)

I don't want video out.

As far as the keys go, that's what the blue tooth and the usb port are for. Duh.

If you want to type a usb keyboard is cheap and you can get fold up ones, the floppy type or mechanical fold up types. They thumb keys are just for when you hold it and need to type.

Basicly it's a big Game boy for Linux geeks. I can take that thing and make it rock.

Re:I've wanted this

[Hugonz]

Hey, what a coincidence, I have an Inspiron 600M waiting to be shipped from Dell as we speak! 512 MB, exactly as you ordered (1 DIMM)

But will I be able to get...

[Samurai Cat!]

...a Dawson's Creek Pepper Keeper Future S2000?

Battery?

[melgeroth]

Is the battery life mentioned anywhere? If it is I missed it.

Re:Battery?

[Demon of the fall]

Is the battery life mentioned anywhere? If it is I missed it.

Couldn't find any exact info other than the following in the press release:
"It has a rechargeable lithium polymer battery with power management providing support for a day's worth of activities"

hacking?

[commodoresloat]

It kind of already is a portable media player. The Pepper Keeper software looks like it will do most things you would need, and since there's a full linux system underneath, you can just install whatever players are missing.

Re:hacking?

[flyneye]

dunno about doing most things.I clicked their "music link and only found this "Create Mixtapes of MP3s that you can share with your friends and family. Because Mixtapes are sharable, you can add only MP3s that have been downloaded from public Web sites like music.download.com." scarey!
Now personally for me this would have to be loaded with DeMuDi to do what I want with music and not a lot of nonsense about pepperpackages.
To me this would replace racks and stompboxes for dsp if it were worthy.

USB 1.1

[commodoresloat]

Comes only with USB 1.1, which is kinda slow for something that you'll want to transfer photos, mp3s, and video to. Also the 20g hard drive is a little tight for that purpose. I'd like to see one of these with usb2 or firewire and at least 80g on the hard drive. It would be nice if it had some kind of cover to protect the LCD too. But this looks pretty badass nonetheless.

Re:USB 1.1

[arakon]

I was thinking the USB port would be used for A Mouse or a Keyboard. Especially for someone who though this would be great for editing docs on the go.

Of course the other half of me thought immediately, i could use it for a game controller and slap mame or another emulator on this bad boy... 600+ MGhz should be plenty enough to run a SNES emu.

I mean it has built in wireless networking and anyone who would buy this would fork over $50 for a wireless AP right? File Transfer problems solved.

Re:USB 1.1

[C10H14N2]

...and anyone who would fork over $800 would think "I forked over $400 for my iPod and it has twice the storage space." Seriously, 20GB? WTF?!? Obviously they're trying to keep the price under that of a low-end laptop, but come on, ditch the bluetooth and put in a 50-100GB drive. Whats with only having SD/MMC? Howsabouts Compact Flash or SmartMedia? They're touting it for multimedia and they don't use the most common cards for digital cameras in favor of the most maligned and unsed format? HUH? Also, 256MB standard, but is it expandable and if so how much? "Scroll wheel?" Why not just put in a fricken touchpad or trackball? And if there's no usable keyboard and it's supposed to be ultra-portable, put the damned IR port on the front so that you can use a portable keyboard (a la Palm), not a luggable desktop one.

What gives? On first glance I thought this looked cool and could see myself getting one, but there are too many things they screwed up. Some how it seems appropriate that they use a graphic of a freaking CASSETTE TAPE for their media player. Sheesh.

Re:USB 1.1

[ibbey]

That was the first thing I noticed as well. USB 2.0 is standard on the even cheapest motherboards on the market today, so I can't imagine that it would have added more than a buck or two to the manufacturing cost. And it would have added a lot of new flexibility. My desired use, for example, is as a CarPC/Mp3 player, and a 20 gig hd isn't big enough. The easy solution, and perfectly appropriate for use in the car, is an external hd, but that's not an option here due to the slow USB.

This would also make it more practical to use wired ethernet via a USB adapter (I'm sure you can do this over usb 1.1, but I'm not certain if there'd be a speed hit). WiFi is great, but not always an option.

I'm sure many others can come up with other applications for faster conectivity, and for the small premium in price, I can't see any reason not to include it.

Re:USB 1.1

[Echnin]

Well, most cameras, even if they use USB 2.0, only use Full Speed, which is the same speed as USB 1.1 anyway. If it's a 802.11g network card, you can transfer the MP3s and videos over the network; this thing doesn't have an optical drive to rip CDs, and I would use a stationary to download things anyway; just copy over when it's wanted. The small hard drive also neccessitates this. Won't work as a primary computer, of course, but as a complimentary device it'd do quite well. Assuming it's fast enough to run a word processor and play MPEG4s, it can be quite useful.

Re:USB 1.1

[StarKruzr]

"The easy solution, and perfectly appropriate for use in the car, is an external hd, but that's not an option here due to the slow USB."

Yes, it is. Why does everyone act as if USB 1.1 is a 5kbps protocol?

It runs at 12Mbps. This is more than fast enough to bring MP3s or OGGs from the drive to your PepperPad and play them back in real time.

Re:USB 1.1

[gl4ss]

ditch the bluetooth??? on a on-the-move device it's quite useful.. unless you want to juggle to get ir connection to your mobile.

if you don't like it don't buy it.

Re:USB 1.1

[C10H14N2]

God forbid anyone give anything but a lovefest for new products that although basically "good ideas" obviously need to go back to the drawing board.

Design criticism is crucial to getting designs right and there's a lot of very valid criticism to be given to the design team that produced this turkey.

Re:USB 1.1

[DrWho520]

Wireless networking would let me tap into my MythTV box from anywhere in my house, which is nice. I am not certain at the maturity of the project, but plex86 deffinately ups the value of this device for me. I wonder how much tweakage would be necessary?

Re:USB 1.1

[Echnin]

The scroll wheel will be great for browsing web pages. What do you need a trackball or a trackpad for when you have a touchscreen? Also, 2.5" drives are much more expensive than 3.5" drives. I haven't seen a laptop with more than 80 GB of space. For a portable keyboard, use Bluetooth. SD and MMC slots take far less space than a CF slot, and both can be supported with only one slot.

I'm not getting one, of course; I already have an iBook. Still, it's not that bad.

Re:USB 1.1

[gl4ss]

don't give braindead criticism then at least.

bluetooth is in use.

mmc is in use.

both are useful.

Re:USB 1.1

[Tom Rini]

USB2.0 might be bog-standard on ever PeeCee motherboard available today, but that's not yet the case for every XScale, MIPS, or PowerPC System-On-a-Chip (SoC) eval board. A similar point should be made for IEEE1394 support as well.

Re:USB 1.1

[ibbey]

USB2.0 might be bog-standard on ever PeeCee motherboard available today, but that's not yet the case for every XScale, MIPS, or PowerPC System-On-a-Chip (SoC) eval board. A similar point should be made for IEEE1394 support as well.

My point wasn't that it was standard everywhere, only that the costs in implementing it would be negligible.I'll admit that I don't work in embedded systems, so I'm not all that familiar with the market, but I assume that the motherboards can be customized to the application. Assuming this is the case, why not add it?

I do agree that Firewire seems a bit redundant. It would be nice, but I don't see much compelling advantage to having two competing high-speed busses.

Re:USB 1.1

[ibbey]

It runs at 12Mbps. This is more than fast enough to bring MP3s or OGGs from the drive to your PepperPad and play them back in real time.

Granted. Perhaps I should have said "that's not a -good- option". What about copying 10 gigs of mp3s to the internal hard drive? Sure it can be done, but it will take hours. How about listening to mp3s from an external drive while copying files from a wired network? What about other applications that I didn't think of? My point was that, assuming the cost to add usb2 was not extreme, it is a silly omission.

Hardware designers never know exactly how there hardware is going to be used, so artificially limiting it's usefulness with things like this seems shortsighted. That's not to say that they need to add every possible hardware option, but they shouldn't omit something as flexible as usb2 just to save a few bucks. Of course there may well be other reasons for the omission.

Re:USB 1.1

[Tom Rini]

My point wasn't that it was standard everywhere, only that the costs in implementing it would be negligible.I'll admit that I don't work in embedded systems, so I'm not all that familiar with the market, but I assume that the motherboards can be customized to the application. Assuming this is the case, why not add it?

On PCs, it's just part of the South Bridge, e.g (from lspci):
0000:00:07.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 01)
0000:00:07.1 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01)
0000:00:07.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev 01)
0000:00:07.3 Bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 01)
(The handy example from my old box). The 'extras' bundled on XScale/MIPS/PowerPC/SH/other don't yet include USB2 (some do now, but I'd guess the Pepper Pad has been in development for a bit) nor Firewire. So it would have ment adding in another chip, finding room on the board, etc, etc.

Re:USB 1.1

[CableModemSniper]

You mean Bochs or QEMU right? Because Plex86 is virtualization for x86,and this thing has an XScale processor.

No USB 2?

[hobbsbutcher]

According to the photos page it just has USB 1.1 and only one USB port.

Re:No USB 2?

[fermion]

The USB was likely included to allow the use of low speed devices, like keyborads, printers etc. It make little sense that they did not use USB 2.0, but with the confusion over what 2.0 means, I realy don't think it makes a lot of difference.

About the only thing I found surprising is that it did not include a firewire port. One application that I think tablet might be useful for is offloading pictures and video from a camera in the field. A firewire port would allow this to happen rapidly.

I always wondered what those guys did...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've done some consulting at a company in the same office building, right across the hallway. I never would have guessed that they were a hardware shop.

Re:I always wondered what those guys did...

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not. They do the Keeper software in-house, almost everything else (incl most of the hardware) is contracted out.

ok lets just get it all out of the way now

[ErichTheWebGuy]

1. Yea but does it run Linux?
2. Imagine a beowulf cluster of Pepper Pads!
3. In Soviet Russia the screen touches you!
4.
4a. Design a superior piece of hardware
4b. Include a superior OS
4c. ???
4d. Profit!
5. Netcraft confirms, Pepper Pad is dead!
6. If it doesn't run [KDE/Gnome/desktop of choice] then it sucks!

There, I think that about covers it!

Re:ok lets just get it all out of the way now

[ErichTheWebGuy]

Oops, forgot one:

7. I don't have a Pepper OR a Pad, you insensitive clod!!

Re:ok lets just get it all out of the way now

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one welcome our Pepper Pad overlords.

Re:ok lets just get it all out of the way now

[acidkillUSF]

vi > emacs !!

Re:ok lets just get it all out of the way now

[rozz]

you insensitive clod

Re:ok lets just get it all out of the way now

[matyas47]

Ah, yeah, you forgot a few more: 9. I, for one, welcome our new miniature Pepper-Pad overlords! 10. All your web pad are belong to us.

Re:ok lets just get it all out of the way now

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot one:
7. I'll buy if it fixes this color scheme!

wow I want one

[dcstimm]

WHen I get a job and can afford $800 dollars ill buy one in a heart beat, lets just hope it can run the mythfrontend so I can watch tv in bed.

Re:wow I want one

[Anonymous Coward]

hey ill give you a job soez you can afford one. seriously, ill pay you 800 bucks a year to do my bidding. just say so and the job is yours :)

Re:wow I want one

[austad]

I will give you $1000. But you'll have to endure my uncontrollable maniacal laughing and my freaky cat with no fur.

Re:wow I want one

[NanoGator]

"WHen I get a job and can afford $800 dollars ill buy one in a heart beat, lets just hope it can run the mythfrontend so I can watch tv in bed."

$300 gets you a Dell Axim with a 600 mhz processor and built in 802.11. If your intent is to watch recorded video in bed, it might be worth investigating if this will do the job.

I'm suggesting it because I have a TabletPC that I sometimes use to watch TV in bed. Despite the fact that its' small and light weight, an hour holding this up in bed is actually a bit of a strain. I'd prefer a PocketPC (or Palm, not picky) for that.

I just wanted to suggest that in case you manage it. If I ever build another pc based PVR again, that's exactly what I'm going to do.

Re:wow I want one

[dspacemonkey]

Or possibly even buy a small TV...

Or is that a little too far out?

Re:wow I want one

[NanoGator]

"Or possibly even buy a small TV... Or is that a little too far out?"

If he doesn't have one right now, then there's probably a pretty good reason. Maybe he doesn't have enough space. Maybe he has satellite or something and he'd have to rely on bunny ears to get reception. Maybe he specifically wants a "Watch what MythTV has recorded" device in his bedroom and making his current TV do that is a bit challenging. Maybe he doesn't want to spend $200'ish on a TV when he could spend $300'ish on something with broader capabilities.

I wish the karma system here hadn't made people so damn skeptical about everything.

Re:wow I want one

[smurf975]

For me its still to expensive, for that configuration. I don't like the inbuild keypad also.

For $200 more you can get a much better tablet pc: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtool s/item-details.asp?EdpNo=929349&Tab=1&NoMapp=0
(NEC Versa LitePad Intel Pentium 3 Mobile 933MHz / 802.11a-b Wireless / 10.4-inch XGA / 256MB SDRAM / 20GB HDD / External CD-ROM / Windows XP Tablet Edition / Tablet PC)

Forgot a few...

[Gogo Dodo]

7. RIAA sucks!
8. Does it play OGG?
8a. That's OGG Vorbis, not OGG.
8a1. Apple sucks for not porting QuickTime to Linux.
9. They didn't provide source! GPL violation!

Re:Forgot a few...

[daniel23]

> 8a1. Apple sucks for not porting QuickTime to Linux.
8a1a. Gnu/Linux, of course.

Money

[fm6]

They could have done all that. Then they would have had to charge a lot more. They obviously decided that $800 was the most somebody would pay for something like this, and chose the features to fit within that boundary.

Nice ad `Sean

[Anonymous Coward]

You thought you snuck one past the editors huh?

Look folks, of course `Sean wants one of these for his rally car...he's in on the damn thing!

Check out these pics.

good job /. editors for plugging this thing for Sean Hamor.

News for nerds. Shills that matter.

Re:Nice ad `Sean

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot editors are to journalism what Microsoft programmers are to operating systems.

There, it HAD to be said!

Re:Nice ad `Sean

[kjamez]

off topic, slightly, but the pics all included geocaching... i accidentally found one of those way deep in the mountains one time in tennessee, as at first was terrified i'd found someone's stash of something out there. but i can see where it would be useful in such an enviroment, but think of the other uses that could become:

a) business: inventory management, wedding registry type uses, internet cafe (usb kb/mouse combo?), etc.
b) personal: remote control (obvious), kitchen media center ... art (wall mount hack not included).
c) education: moblie library reference desk, mobile mostly anything ...

it should have at least two usb's though, unfortunately. i don't want to lug around a USB hub just to hook my cell into it to get cellular internet and a keyboard. or a USB external drive (and a loooooong extension cord).

and be honest, is 600MHz really enough? I might just have to spend the extra $300-$500 to get a mid-range laptop.

i can see, however, where in very specific applications it would be a godsend ...

Re:Nice ad `Sean

[kjamez]

good job /. editors for plugging this thing for Sean Hamor.

News for nerds. Shills that matter.

be honest here too, if you were an owner/parter/beneficiary or company A and company A produced exclusively a linux-bases tablet PC and you are just starting, what better way to expose that device to 5 million people (in a target audience, i might add) and hear feedback almost instantly in /.'s true holier-than-thou attitude. all these comments i am sure are looked at by `Sean and every company loves to hear both sides of some feedback. What harm does providing a link to a small company wanting to sell tech-devices on a tech-based website? The article said they were 'selling' them. There was no question. Why, then, because someone is selling something, does it not make it news-worthy? I personally LIKE hearing about all the ubergeek gadgets /. 'advertises' ... but moreover, i enjoy reading people's comments on them, to either validate or negate my initial thoughts on the matter.

sorry- i just get tired of people bashing the editors for 'ads', when they aren't. ad's are those things that say 'free porn' when they are not, that pop-up when you visit a shady website, and open two more when you close it. That is an ad. This is text, talking about and linking to a device that you may or may not want to look at. You have that choice*.

obligatory: * unless in soviet russia.

Re:Nice ad `Sean

[kalidasa]

Ah, but he didn't come out and say that he was involved in the product. If someone sends something to Taco or Hemos saying "hey, we've got this great LINUX product I think /.ers would be interested in," I expect Taco or Hemos would post it. I would want them to post it. But I don't want any pretense.

Re:Nice ad `Sean

[kjamez]

admittingly, he did mislead everyone saying 'i can't wait to get one myself... '

Re:Nice ad `Sean

[drinkypoo]

It's a tablet, not a laptop. It's intended to run simple small applications and interface to other computers to do complicated things. They have teensy little USB hubs you can carry around, but I agree it should have more than one. Anyway none of the purposes you suggest would require more than a 600MHz processor. It's even enough to play full screen MPEG4 video, provided it's not overly high bitrate. I'm not sure what more you need in a tablet.

Re:Nice ad `Sean

[`Sean]

Except it's the truth that I can't wait to get one myself. I don't have one of my own, and I certainly won't have one for quite some time since they're not in full-scale production yet. Ask any of my co-workers here at Pepper and they'll tell you that just about all I can talk about is hacking a Pepper Pad 2 into a motorsports toy.

Was my article submission astroturfing? Perhaps. Was it intentional? No. Was my underlying agenda an attempt to get photos of my rally car on Slashdot? You betcha.

Sounds nice...

[cperciva]

but I worry about the psychological impact of making computers look less like computers. People have been taught for the past few years that they have to keep their computers up to date with security patches, that they should have a firewall and a virus scanner... but this doesn't look like what people recognize as a "computer". It isn't even advertised as a computer; it's called a "web pad".

Combining the innate cluelessness of most of the people who will buy these, the fact that these don't "look like computers", the fact that these are wireless-only as far as networking is concerned, and the lack of apparent infrastructure for distributing security patches... I have to wonder how well these machines will fare once they reach the real (insecure) world.

Re:Sounds nice...

[pipacs]

I agree with you the trend is worrying, but I don't think shifting the responsibility to customers is the solution. It just shows in what a poor state the industry is today.

There is a full-blown computer in my wireless access point, mobile phone, DVD player. Soon in my TV, my fridge, you name it. I don't want to be the system administrator of my fridge!

Infrastructure, as you say, for distributing and installing security fixes is needed - but manufacturers will never invest into this unless forced to do so. So what we really need is security standards, extended customer protection, all enforced by regulations. NCAP crash tests for the home computer...

Re:Sounds nice...

[fozzmeister]

True to a degree, If it boots Windows (and the explorer interface) its instantly recognisable as a "Computer", If like this it boots some wierd UI then it isn't, however this isn't prolly running services etc and *should* be locked down well / auto updated. The point is the UI is as important the the shape of the box to the user deciding if its a computer.

Re:Sounds nice...

[geekoid]

Most aplience like devices can do fine. You can lock down an apliance device far better then a PC.

Besides, it just needs to last a year for most people, then they'll get a new one.

The same thing is happening with computers. Why spend hours and hours caring for the computer, when they're cheap enough to buy a new one every year?

Whats the work I'm looking for...oh yeah, commodity.

I have a Dell magazine right in front of me. 519 dollars, I can get a PC, with monitor amd free shipping.
2.4G, 256 megs, 40gb, at home service. . .

WOuld I want to use it as a server? no
would I want to push it as the latest game machine? no

Re:Sounds nice...

[`Sean]

and the lack of apparent infrastructure for distributing security patches...

There will be a full updates system in place for both the Pepper Keeper software and the underlying operating system.

`Sean IS Pepper Computing

[Anonymous Coward]

wickywickywack:~$ whois pepper.com
Technical Contact:
Sosik-Hamor, Sean webmaster@pepper.com

wickywickywack:~$ whois trunkmonkey.com
Administrative Contact:
Sosik-Hamor, Sean ssh@speakeasy.net

Re:`Sean IS Pepper Computing

[Anonymous Coward]

Love that machine name "wickywickywack".

Re:`Sean IS Pepper Computing

[Fnkmaster]

He's their webmaster, yes, and probably one of the engineers there as well. He isn't the whole company though, as you can see from their management team page - they are a legitimate, if not huge company, based in the building next to where my old company was based, down Hartwell Ave. for anybody who knows the area, in Lexington, MA. In fact, I know one of the engineers at Pepper (assuming he's still there).

Re:`Sean IS Pepper Computing

[Anonymous Coward]

As it's been mentioned, the problem isn't so much that he's part of the company. The problem is that he didn't disclose this fact in the submitted article. What's worse, the "I personally can't wait to get a hold of one of these" makes it look suspiciously like astroturfing.

Re:`Sean IS Pepper Computing

[Fnkmaster]

Oh, I don't disagree, it's definitely astroturfing, but that's not exactly uncommon here. It would have been less annoying if it hadn't included that particular quote, which makes the whole thing sound disingenuous. Whatever, it's still far less annoying than the daily astroturfing that Roland Piquepaille fucker gives us for his blog.

Re:`Sean IS Pepper Computing

[`Sean]

What's worse, the "I personally can't wait to get a hold of one of these" makes it look suspiciously like astroturfing.

Or perhaps it was a genuine display of excitement about the product my employer is producing. Yes, I'm a Pepper employee, but that doesn't mean I get my own Pad to take home, hack, and play with in my spare time. So, quite literally, I can't wait to get a hold of one because one is not in my possession.

I hate to say it...

[deminisma]

But where's the market? You can buy a decent PC for $300, the keyboard looks too unsuitable to be used professionally and it's too big to used as a PDA. So it is an overpriced, oversized PDA, with a clunky interface. Who really has any utility for that?

Re:I hate to say it...

[Maserati]

As a Mac user I've suspected it for years. There's a previously uncataloged meme on Slashdot, and it's spreading. It's the $300 PC meme. New iMac ? $300 PC Computer for the kids ? $300 PC No Linux games ? $300 PC New tablet computer ? You guessed it... Frank Stallone !

Re:I hate to say it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where do you get the clunky interface from?? The monitor is touchscreen, so it's up to the software to implement a decent interface... When you get to touchpads, the physical keys become secondaty input. OK, if you're looking for a PC for programming tasks this is not the one for you, but there are tons of other uses for other people.

It's not at all an oversized PDA but a much better laptop... not for programmers but for everybody else who needs a real computer on the road (e.g. something that can do email and word-processing) but doesn't want to carry around a big clunky laptop.

Re:I hate to say it...

[colinrichardday]

But the thing is almost as large as my 10.5inx9.5inx1.2in 4.3lb laptop. And I didn't see a CD-RW/DVD-ROM included with the Pepper Pad.

Word processing? With that "keyboard"?

Re:I hate to say it...

[Anonymous Coward]

But the thing is almost as large as my 10.5inx9.5inx1.2in 4.3lb laptop.

10.5" vs 12.1"
9.5" vs 6.6"
1.2" vs 0.8"
4.3lbs vs 2.3lbs

Looks like your laptop is a bit smaller length-wise, but half as big in width and thickness and twice as heavy. "Almost"? More like "much" bigger.

"Word-processing" as in tweaking an existing document, making small corrections, adding some formatting. I don't know about you, but when writing a document, I like to sit down and type away everything I need then fix it up later. This can make the "fix it up later" part much less stressful.

Re:I hate to say it...

[colinrichardday]

Yes, I like to sit down and type away, too. But on a real keyboard.

As for the size, OK 120 cubic inches vs. 64 cubic inches. But 4.3 pounds isn't that heavy.

Pepper Keeper?

[david_reese]

Hopefully it'll have better info-retention capabilities than my junior high Trapper Keeper :-) Seriously, my main issue with contact managers are

1. Data Entry... and this has a full qwerty keyboard (tho it's arguable how usable it is, being so small keys)
2. Sync capabilities... palm was good, but ipod/iCal is better, and so is my SonyEriccson T610 that supports SyncML. Can't recount the number of times that I lost data due to bad sync or lack of sync {sigh}.

From the site's page on PK, it looks pretty good. Gotta try the download and see if it's better than my palm desktop.

Re:Pepper Keeper?

[lidocaineus]

1. iSync syncs with Palms.
2. iSync doesn't use SyncML (yet - which is why most SyncML phones aren't compatible with iSync).
3. You can't enter data onto an ipod!

I'm a little underwhelmed

[NanoGator]

Hmm this might have been neat a year or so ago, but I'm a little underwhelmed with it. Just a couple of months ago I bought a Toshiba M-200 TabletPC. Granted, it's over twice the price of this guy ($2,000...) but lemme share with you the specs:

-Centrino 1.5 ghz processor.
-1400 by 1050 resolution screen
-512 meg of RAM
-40 gig HD
-It doesn't use the touch screen, rather the Wacom digitizer for the stylus. This means pressure sensitivity, but it means you can ONLY use the stylus for input.

-NVidia Go5200 card.
-3-4 hour battery life. (I've reached a little over 3 with it.)

-It works in both slate mode, and it can unfold like a laptop with a kb. ..etc. etc. etc...

I do like some of the things they're doing with this machine, but ... well... it's hard to really get excited now that I have this M200 machine.

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[torpor]

oh yeah, right, i'm gonna overlook your $2000 investment versus an $800 investment, and just agree with you entirely on the specs/power/performance underwhelming ...

forget it, fool. if you don't know the difference between $2000 and $800, send me $1200 and i'll tell you!

for $800 (hopefully thats just rrp), this is a stormin' accessory to my existing computing solutions. i'm gonna get one, just so i've got a nice, portable, useful linux machine around to hack code^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hwrite worthwhile computing applications on...

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[NanoGator]

"forget it, fool. if you don't know the difference between $2000 and $800, send me $1200 and i'll tell you!"

Heh. Funny thing is I pointed out the price difference to avoid shitheaded comments like this.

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[Anonymous Coward]

So, how's your job in Redmond nowadays? Have your options vested yet?

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[NanoGator]

"So, how's your job in Redmond nowadays? Have your options vested yet?"

I'm surprised Linus lets you talk with your mouth full.

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[torpor]

Heh. Funny thing is I pointed out the price difference to avoid shitheaded comments like this.

yeah, but you went ahead and posted your lame-duck post anyway, knowing that the whole point was irrelevant. i mean, c'mon, you gotta crap on the Pepper because its 'underwhelming' compared to your $2000 system?

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[NanoGator]

" i mean, c'mon, you gotta crap on the Pepper because its 'underwhelming' compared to your $2000 system?"

Yeah I see your point, believe it or not. I get annoyed at people getting modded up for saying "It's not interesting!" Guess I'm guilty of that, too.

I should have spelled my thoughts out a little more clearly. For 2.5x the price, you get an actual laptop replacement with stronger capabilities, as opposed to a fancy PDA. In that light, at least from my point of view, it's easier to budget the money. It's harder to spend $800 on a PDA than $2,000 is for a laptop. I don't mean in having the actual money, but in justification for it. To put it another way, which is a better use of money: $10 of fast food, or $50 of groceries.

Sorry I didn't spell this out a little more clearly in my original post.

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[torpor]

its like that old saying, my friends Pop used to bore us with on the way to Costco, "its expensive being poor"... i.e. if you've got the money to spend, you get more bang for the buck in the end.

but thats really not the whole point of this. an $800 computer is still a valid computing device. i rarely see *anyone* getting $2000 worth out of their computers; usually, its just for gaming or 'keeping up with the joneses factor' and not actual productive use.

if i get this $800 computer and make it my only computer for doing e-mail, web, internet, movie-watching, multimedia, etc. and it leaves me with my other computer that can be entirely re-purposed to do something else productive, thats an $800 investment worth the effort. sure, you have to look at such things; you can't (or shouldn't) just be consumericanist about the whole issue of 'plastic junk for $xxx' ...

glibly over-analyzing a devices' shortcomings on the basis of specs is a waste of time, in my opinion. what are you going to do with it, and how will you get your return from that investment? i can see a lot of uses for Pepper in many, many, many productive business scenario's.

how much time have you wasted doing viruses on your $2000 PC? how much time do you figure you'll waste on the Pepper, with regards to this issue, compared to how much you'll use it?

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[NanoGator]

" i.e. if you've got the money to spend, you get more bang for the buck in the end."

To be fair, this product doesn't even qualify on that level. You mention later in your post using it for web stuff, email, etc, but for that $800, there is a lot more you could do with a desktop machine. Heck, you can even get a superior laptop for about that much. Maybe chuck in an extra $100 or 2, but then you'd get more pixels to play with and a DVD player. That touch screen is a spendy proposition.

"how much time have you wasted doing viruses on your $2000 PC?"

0.

" how much time do you figure you'll waste on the Pepper, with regards to this issue, compared to how much you'll use it?"

The entire preface of my post was that it was in my opinion. The Pepper is not suitable to me as a laptop or computer replacement. Well... replacement is a harsh term. Hopefully you know what I mean given the circumstances you outlined. I used my Tablet as my only machine for nearly the entire time I've had it. (I finally got my desktop running last week, recently moved...) I could use it, but as it stands, it wouldn't be as worth $800 as my Tablet is worth $2000. I stand by that.

It is a niche product. It will have a limited market. Nothing wrong with pointing that out. I agree that negativity isn't all that useful, but practicality is. The people who buy this are those who have the $800 to throw at it, not those who only have $800 to spend on a computer product.

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[torpor]

The people who buy this are those who have the $800 to throw at it, not those who only have $800 to spend on a computer product.


fair point. if you only have $800 to spend on a computer, you'd be better off doing a lot more shopping around.

but if i want the services/features this thing provides - namely an operational, portable, easy to use computer with all my web-browsing, imaging, multimedia needs taken care of, no fuss, no hassle, (no windows viruses), then its a valid investment.

are you saying that this thing isn't worth $800, or just that it isn't worth spending $800 on it if you've got other computing needs in mind? in my opinion, there's a difference.

personally, i think its worth $800 to just get rid of all multimedia requirements on my main system, move it to this portable device (which i can .. ahem .. use in places i can't use my desktop system) and turn my main system into a much more productive setup, with a Pepper in cooperation.

now, whether i would do this, as opposed to ... say ... getting a Tapwave device or something ... is a matter of shopping, and I agree with you that when it comes to computing devices, one ought to shop.

but just don't insta-crap on something on the basis of specs. crap on it on the basis of suitability to task; and remember, some tasks are holier than others ...

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[LiMikeTnux]

to shut you the hell up, i spent 800 dollars on an amd 2500+ laptop with about the same other specs...it can kick the crap out of your lil tablet that you BLEW 2000 dollars on. why waste money and not shop around?

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[NanoGator]

"it can kick the crap out of your lil tablet that you BLEW 2000 dollars on. why waste money and not shop around? "

Heh. Because I'm an artist and I need the Wacom Digitizer.

Oops, guess I didn't 'blow $2000'.

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[Anonymous Coward]

I would cheerfully pay $800 for a compact, lightweight tablet that let me surf the web, read ebooks, check email, and view photos.

You, as an artist, need and want a pressure-sensitive stylus, so you don't care about this. But I would like it.

If they could get the price down to, say, $200 I would probably buy a stack of them. I'd have one in my kitchen, for recipes. I'd have one in the living room, to look things up while watching TV. Etc.

I guess your basic point is that you don't want an $800 PDA. My basic point is that a tablet can be its own thing, useful when you just want a convenient way to look something up (a recipe, a web site, etc.) and that the cheaper a tablet is, the more likely I'll want one.

Someday tablets will be like those PADD things on Star Trek. Everyone will have several and no one will find them remarkable.

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[NanoGator]

Yeah, I knew you wouldn't have a reply to that.

"Whoop-de-doo, I have a few more megahertz to play with. That's sooOOooo much cooler than all the tablet features."

Face it, you got what you paid for. ;)

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[LiMikeTnux]

no, i figured the thread was dead and that you would reply again like a little kiddie loser who thinks he has the better shit, face it dude, your dick is small and your brain smaller give up

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[NanoGator]

" like a little kiddie loser who thinks he has the better shit"

Hehhe. Yeah yeah, I'd be soOOoo bothered by that if not for this little comment I was responding to:

"it can kick the crap out of your lil tablet that you BLEW 2000 dollars on."

You sure that was directed at me? :)

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[LiMikeTnux]

this thread is dead, ok? DEAD, shut the fuck up and move along.

Re:I'm a little underwhelmed

[NanoGator]

"this thread is dead, ok? DEAD, shut the fuck up and move along. "

Heh. In other words, you at least want to get the final word. That it? Try to save at least some face here?

Must have stung worse than I originally thought. You have some growing up to do, my friend. If y u had been a bigger man in the first place, you wouldn't have found yourself in this position now. Now all you have left is name calling and begging me to drop it.

Are they sure it's Linux?

[Allnighterking]

I mean the free download only runs on Mac or Windows. This says to me that they aren't really serious about Linux. I know that if it were built on WinCE I wouldn't expect the free download to only run on Mac and Red Hat.

I'd also like to know if they have modded any of the Linux or GNU tools/apps on the box. If so where's the source. If the source comes with the device, fine. The source doesn't have to be seperately available, or available to just anyone. It does however have to go back to the original team and to anyone who purchases one of the systems. Somehow this sounds a lot like a company that doesn't know why they are running Linux. My fear would be that they are playing lip service to the product using Linux as a buzz word to make enough sales to get bought out. I'd have more respect for a company building on WinCE with a definite reason why they chose it, rather than a company that makes me feal uneasy about how they made their OS decisions.

Re:Are they sure it's Linux?

[commodoresloat]

I believe those downloads are so you can run pepper keeper on your mac or windows box. It looks like pepper keeper is a combination window manager with a bunch of apps like media players and a web browser and so forth, probably with builtin pen-input support. I imagine the source code is included at least for the web browser since they say it is mozilla-based (or it may simply be mozilla, but I imagine they trimmed some fat to put it on here). It also looks like the linux system under the window manager is complete so if you wanted to run it as a regular linux machine you probably could.

Re:Are they sure it's Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think your fears are unfounded. The source will be aviable for the things that are open source.

Intel has had very good Linux support as of late, expecially in the embedded market were Linux is much more marketable then it is in the desktop/laptop arena.

I want one of those, and the first thing I am going to do is format that sucker and install my own linux on it.

Possibly Debian. They do have a StrongArm (xscale is basicly strongarm cpu) port and that has a good chance of working.

I wouldn't buy it "just because it has linux" unless you realy want a very light weight web/media device AND/OR are a experianced Linux user.

Me being a experianced linux user, I am going to hack the snot out of this thing once I get my hands on it.

remember IT'S NOT x86, so if you want to hack this thing, your going to be in the vast minority of Linux users.

Re:Are they sure it's Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn to spell.

puh!

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't beat my Zaurus C760

This is why

[StarKruzr]

it is only $800.

The iPod has:

[StarKruzr]

No keyboard.

No color screen.

A proprietary O/S (yes, it can run Linux - poorly)

No bluetooth.

No ability to run real applications.

No touchscreen.

No WiFi.

This is easily worth two iPods.

Does it have pressure sensitivity?

[pantherace]

Pen input is good. I jury rigged a Zaurus to provide input for messing with graphics prior to getting a tablet. I liked it.

I got a tablet. After using it for a while, I realized what a great thing pressure sensitivity is. It's not just the touch screen that makes a tablet pc thing, all of those have wacom styluses for their input.

I've also noticed an area in which Linux lacks support badly: Handwriting recognition.

Is it just me?

[xombo]

Is it just me or are people having similar issues with seeing the comments on this entry? When I first click it (every time) it shows 0 comments, when I refresh it shows them. It's done it across several browsing sessions. But here's my babble about the article itself so this doesn't get killed as off-topic: I would like to see a company spend more of their money to create proper handwriting recognition under Linux for such endeavors instead of half-assed QWERTY keyboards (which leaves out Dvorak users such as myself) on devices that amount to nothing more than low-end laptops without a keyboard (with full Linux functionality). Secondly, what's with the interface?

I want...

[Pahandav]

I want to be a Pepper (Pad) 2!

There... (nonexistent) karma burn-off complete.

Guys, you've missed the most obvious application!

[gsasha]

Reading books in the toilet... Or Slashdot anyway.
Granted, the price is a bit steep for that, but hey! It's still so sexy.

Value..?

[Gentlewhisper]

I think it is pretty expensive for the design.. however i think if they make it more like a laptop (as in include a real keyboard with it, and have the screen flip close)..

I would definitely buy it if I got the money!

As it is currently, does look rather dorky.

Not the Only Tablet PC Pre-Equipped with Linux

[wehe]

There is already a bunch of Tablet PCs pre-installed with Linux available, there are also installation reports for other Tablet PCs.

Re:SLASHDOT DOES NOT RENDER RIGHT IN FIREFOX LINUX

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right. It's hard to pin the blame on slashdot though, cos it renders fine in Safari.

Size

[moj0e]

It would greatly help if they showed someone actually holding one. That way it would be easier to see the actual size. (it gives the dimentions though)

Re:Size

[`Sean]

It would greatly help if they showed someone actually holding one.

A photo, albeit a small one, of the Pepper Pad 2 being held can be seen on the front page of store.pepper.com.

Linux problem ahead...

[-ing AnonymousCoward]

I've got to say I really liked was I was seeing until I'd noticed the SD/MMC card slot. The SD specification being closed and protected (cf. the f-ing copyright protection part http://sdcard.org/sd_memorycard/index.html) the sources of the whole kernel won't be available and the SD/MMC slot driver will be a binary-only module.

This implies that you won't be able to change your kernel freely and keep all all the current functionalities of this nice box. I can't understand why they haven't made the Linux-friendlier choice of a CF card slot. It sucks.

It reminds me too much of the Zaurus C7xx/C8xx case. I know, I own one. And that's the only reason why I wouldn't buy one...

Re:Linux problem ahead...

[nutznboltz]

Where did you see mention of an SD/MMC card slot?

SDRAM != SD/MMC

Re:Linux problem ahead...

[-ing AnonymousCoward]

Unless I need thick glasses, I'd say http://www.pepper.com/content/press_room/images/20 040514-018-PepperPad2_Model-D-09-4x6-300.jpg at the top right corner of the picture.

BTW, I know that SDRAM is kind of different from all those solid state memory cards, but I thank you for confirming it...

Re:Linux problem ahead...

[Tom Rini]

It's listed on http://store.pepper.com/pepper_pad/specification.h tml

Re:Linux problem ahead...

[Anonymous Coward]

SD/MMC is mentioned here on the specification page.

Its located on the upper right of the device.

Nice Rallye pictures!!!

[ve2asm]

Wow! I just spent some time looking through the linked rallye pics gallery (and then some other albums on the same site) and I must say, really good rallye pictures!

It'd be interesting to see exactly what you intend to do to the car through it's OBDII interface using this "PDA". Or did you just intend to do (extensive?) data-logging for analysis?

half that price

[poptones]

Actually, you can get a very good used laptop on ebay that will do everything one of these does, will run linux like a champ, and you can get it for $300 or less - heck, you can pick up a 266mhz machine with a 12" screen these days for as ittle as a hundred bucks. My own machine has a 13" TFT, 500MHz PIII, 320mb ram, a 20gb hard drive (with 18 months left on the warranty) and still could be had for less than what they are asking for this thing - and in another year the stinkpad will STILL be an actual pc that's worth something, not just another has-been trendy gadget of yesteryear (although this point may be moot - as that thing looks so incredbly ticky-tacky cheap it will probably be dead in a year or two anyway).

I don't get these "too fucking big for a pocket and too fucking tiny to type on" devices. If I'm going to have to carry something like this in a bag or briefcase anyway, why the hell not just carry a small laptop?

Re:half that price

[colinrichardday]

Or even new. My Averatec cost $700 bucks after Staples rebate. It has an Athlon XPM-1600 (about 1.3 GHZ), 30-gig hd, 256 MB RAM (upgradable to 640), three USB slots (2.0), a regular (if somewhat smallish) keyboard, and a 1024x768 screen.

Toss in SuSE 9.0 Professional for $80, and you have a Linux laptop.

Re:last measure

[Anonymous Coward]

kol??

Think "Big Zaurus" not "tablet PC"

[Spoing]

This doesn't have PC processors or other hardware. It does have 32MB flash built in to go along with the 256MB RAM and 20GB hard drive.

That 32MB flash should be usable to boot the machine nearly instantly; no need to suspend/hibernate to save battery life.

I wonder what the Opie and OpenZaurus folks think about the Pepper Pad 2?

Compared to a Zaurus, this is a good upgrade.

Not Gentoo

[Anonymous Coward]

What makes you think it's Gentoo? It isn't. It runs MontaVista Linux: Read the Spec

Waaaay off base

[Anonymous Coward]

The CPU is plenty fast enough for handwriting recognition. Apple's Newton 2100 had a 162Mhz StrongARM 110, and it's widely regarded as having very good handwriting recognition. That said, there's no mention of handwriting recognition on the spec sheet.

Hi-res MPEG4 decoding might be a bit much for the XScale itself, but you'll notice from the spec sheet that the Pepper Pad includes the Intel 2700G Multimedia Accelerator, which is a GPU that - among other things - helps decode MPEG-4.

What part about the "Composite video out jack" listed on the spec sheet leads you to believe that there's no composite video out on the Pepper Pad?

Use Bluetooth for the Keyboard, dummy

[Anonymous Coward]

20GB? Well, as luck would have it you can't buy 1.8" drives in 50-100GB sizes. So that's out. They could use 30GB of 40GB drives, but you'll find they're rather expensive - which has a direct impact on that $800 price.

Bluetooth chipsets cost far less than an upgraded drive, so dropping BT won't help. BT is also useful for syncing with phones, and for connecting to portable wireless keyboards and the like (no need for IR for that).

Scroll wheels are much better for scrolling web pages than track-anythings are. So that makes some sense as well.

From a Pepper employee

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a Pepper employee, and I assure you that we know what we're doing (and why we're using Linux). Since you no doubt did your homework before posting, you're aware that we're running MontaVista Linux, which is a commercial Linux distro produced for embedded devices. The source is available. We handle our patches appropriately.

If you don't like that we're using Linux, I encourage you to contact us with a better alternative for the problem we're trying to solve.

As you also know, the software is Java. It will run not only on the Mac and Windows, but on your Linux system at home as well. You just need to install a JVM. It should even run on FreeBSD, if you feel like running Java there. The fact that we don't have a Linux installer means that we don't have a Linux installer. Nothing more. I can't say whether that will change - perhaps enough market demand would make it worth our while (so ask us directly, in an official channel).

Re:From a Pepper employee

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't like that we're using Linux, I encourage you to contact us with a better alternative for the problem we're trying to solve.

Perhaps you need to go back and read his post. I think it's pretty clear that what struck him as weird was seeing the "linux! Linux" hype but then finding that linux users were apparently never considered, while microsoft and apple customers were. It strikes me as odd too.

As far as "installing a jvm", that is pretty much standard "out of the box" for any modern linux distro, no real hassle there - so why not write a java installer, instead of microsoft and apple-specific installers?

Re:From a Pepper employee

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the installer, it's the cost of support.

Re:From a Pepper employee

[drinkypoo]

So just don't say anywhere on it that linux is supported. Say "Mac and Windows" and then spawn a java installer from an installer stub. Linux users can read on some forum out there somewhere that they can just run the java installer and take their chances...

Re:From a Pepper employee

[drinkypoo]

God, I just downloaded the windows install and what do you know, it's a fucking installanywhere package. However, since it's a selfextractor, you can't use the windows package (at least) to install to Linux or whatever else. Looks like the mac version is a zip file, let's see what's in that. How do you like this stream of conciousness stuff? The Mac one seems to be a mac .app package, also nothing you can install from, at least not that I can see so far. If I run the Pepper.jar from %ProfileImagePath%\My Documents\Pepper then it runs the program.

drink@agrippa Pepper $ java -version
java version "1.4.2-rc1"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build Blackdown-1.4.2-rc1)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build Blackdown-1.4.2-rc1, mixed mode)
drink@agrippa Pepper $ java pepper.jar
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: pepper/jar

So it doesn't work at least here, for me.

Re:From a Pepper employee

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should try

java -jar pepper.jar

I'm overwhelmed by your device

[Anonymous Coward]

The one you mention might me great for you, but it's too much for me. I want a tablet that is small, light and as inexpensive as possible. Those are my main concerns. Small so it doesn't take up half my backpack, light because I'm like my back the way it is, inexpensive because I'll have to dump it next year to buy a better model. CPU speed: the lower the less power it needs (good). Screen size: small is good enough for me (and again less power). Disk space: you can always add to it.

Given the choice of buying something like this pepper for $800 or something like yours for $1000, I'd probably buy the pepper.

Re:Not the Only Tablet PC Pre-Equipped with Linux

[kalidasa]

It's not a tablet, it's a web pad. Different niche. Think of the distinction between a desktop and a workstation. Both have pretty much the same form factor, but one is inexpensive and lower powered.

That's great but...

[Zoc_All_Alone]

...can it run windows?


(Yes, I'm sure someone could do a Windows CE port if they really wanted to, but I was going for that irony thing).

If this was a car report

[geekoid]

we you say the car reviewed suckes comapared to a car that cost 2.5 times the cost?

I mean, it's not the some type of device, and it's not meant for the same market.

Re:If this was a car report

[NanoGator]

"we you say the car reviewed suckes comapared to a car that cost 2.5 times the cost?"

If the cheaper car was cheap because it couldn't be driven on highways, then yes, that'd be an ok analogy.

Re:If this was a car report

[drinkypoo]

So what you're saying is that this thing is a moped? The question then becomes, do you want your friends to see you on one?

Of course no one really drives a car, that would be a multi-headed PC. It's all motorcycles, one or two people can use it once at best, and the second person isn't in much control. I think we can all imagine the rest of this analogy so I'll stop here.

Re:If this was a car report

[NanoGator]

Hehe. Nothing insightful to say, just found your analogy amusing. :)

Have a good weekend.

Neat Modifications...

[davidsyes]

What would be neat modifications would be:

--make the left and right sides removable via slide-off/slide-on points with data transfer conductors

--ditch the windows part

--add a fold-over cover so the LCD has some protection

--make it nurse, insurance adjuster, field architect, and shipboard personnel-friendly

--hot-swappable batteries (the unit would have an internal battery so that the device stays on for up to 3 minutes while the user adds a fully-charged battery, allowing time for the accidental "oops, I changed out a wrong battery/I need another 25 seconds to dig up and swap..."

--touch-screen capabilities?

This device, if made lighter and somewhat water-resistant could be used by law or parking enforcement in inclement weather. Insurance adjusters and even paramedics could find utility in a tool such as this.

Now, what would REALLY take off is if someone adapts the RC airplane flight training software to this so that Linux geeks who do RC can preprogram their aerobatics, fly their fixed or rotary wing (or even wheeled vehicles or boats, for that matter) toys, and go have some fun.

More interesting would be if the traffic spotters in helos or planes could touch-screen their observations, slave the stabilized camera unit, and then zoom in on the scene and transfer the images to drivers stuck in traffic. The news stations could then charge would-be rubberneckers to view the footage, ostensibly with the intent being to let them drive and then watch the carnage/snarls later, thereby improving traffic flow...

Any other ideas?
(DAMN, my initial posts seem to take a while, as if I'm being monitored or potentially censored. Oh, wait, let me adjust my tinfoil hat...)

David Syes

Why is so heavy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Two pounds? this is huge!. I just measured the weight of my mm20 subnotebook from sharp -it is only 0.901 kg, less than two pounds. I paid $1420 for it, $620 more than a pepper pad, but I got a full featured computer, lighter, with a bigger screen (10.4 inch), same drive (20GB), faster CPU (1GHZ efficeon) more ram (512MB of which 24MB are used for code morphing), 2 high speed USB ports,b/g wireless, ethernet, an external bootable CDR/DVD combo (I had to choose from an external USB cradle and a CDR/DVD combo-I chose the combo). It is a regular i386 computer which runs any flavor of linux- I use SuSE. I installed all multimedia software from packman.de, including libdecss; I have mplayer, xine, videolan helix/real player, avifile, ogle, the win32 codec package etc. I can play any multimedia files and dvds, INCLUDING ENCRIPTED DVDs. With a PC card I can connect firewire devices. I have two external 80GB pocket High Speed USB/firewire combo boxes, which extend the storage capacity of the laptop to 160GB. It has a regular keyboard with a trackpad (no stinky accupoint or other horrible pointing devices). I can type with ease everything I want, including papers with lots of equations, read books in bed before going to sleep (I can hold the laptop in a single hand, it is lighter than many real books), watch movies, etc. A pepper pad is slightly heavier and does only half of these things, why should I buy one?

Different Category

[bill_mcgonigle]

The Linksys are $69 retail, fully outfitted - the board can't cost half of that. Soekris gear is much more expensive.