"ps3 will play your bluray movies and run linux and play ps3,ps2, and psone video games! all way under the price of a standalone bluray movie player."
By the time the PS3 has enough units in stores that you'll be able to actually purchase one (probably March of next year), how much will the BR players cost?
In any event, can't say I care much. The DVD on the PS2 was BY FAR the worst DVD player I've ever had, and I've purchased $30 cheapos from Walmart. I wouldn't even consider the PS3 if I were building an HD theater.
Re:I suspect an overturn of creatives patents soon
on
iPod Faces Patent Probe
·
· Score: 0, Redundant
"but i wasn't talking about searching, i was talking about file browsing, and --in the case of filebrowsing--yes it is.. it is funcionally the same, it uses the same processes and has the same interface, save the computer has a larger screen."
Before I reply: Are you talking about Creative's patent or browsing for music on MP3 devices in general?
I have a feeling I'm starting to see where our disagreement is coming from, I may owe you an apology.
Re:I suspect an overturn of creatives patents soon
on
iPod Faces Patent Probe
·
· Score: 0, Redundant
"filebrowsing is filebrowsing on an electronics device with data storage weather its a fully fledged pc, a pda, or an mp3 player."
No, it is not. You don't even have the same HID across the devices you mentioned, let alone the same requirements for the end-user. Searching for a song on an iPod != searching for an image on your desktop. Somebody with an iq greater than your shoesize to realize that Apple's wheel is not a mouse or a touch screen or even a chair in front of a desk.
"the proposed and struck down patent on "hyperlinking" applied to all devices and software which used the internet, not just computers."
Yes, that would be an overly broad patent. It happens sometimes. I'm not suggesting that Creative's or Apple's isn't. I'm saying you still have to be careful with the prior art. I understand a little more clearly where you're coming from now, so I'll modify the wording of my point a bit: You need to find prior art that would be considered 'infringement' on this patent. I wasn't thinking so much about unfairly granted overly-broad patents when I wrote it originally. Apologies for the confusion.
"but they are, and the problem is people like your patent lawyer who lack the technological literacy to see a patent on something obvious right in front of their face, and who grant those obvious and broad patents."
Patent lawyers don't grant patents, they apply for them.:P
Seriously, though, 'overly broad' and 'obvious patents' are two seperate discussions. I agree with you on the overly broad bit, that sucks. A company I worked at ages ago was burned that way. Obvious, though, is in the eye of the beholder. Not only are you speaking in hindsight, but you're also viewing the components in a different way than others would. I'll give you an example: A man and a woman are nearly identical, anatomically speaking. Yet, many people consider them almost opposites. It just depends on how you view it.
File browsing is file broswing, but data has an infinite number of uses.
"both the computer and the portable player have stored files to browse by category from a filesystem."
Doesn't matter. A computer and a portable player are not the same thing. They don't do the same job. They both use 1's and 0's to store data, but the similarity ends there.
"the patent attourney you asked might know his patent law, but he doesnt know squat about how a computer works, ill bet he thinks it's full of hampsters doing math on miniature abici"
I know, I know. Opinions are strong, so we attack the intelligence of the lawyer. Whatever. The point is that if patents were as broad as you're suggesting, the world would be a much shittier place. It's the fact that they (mostly...) keep those patents that specific that prevents lawsuits like Amazon suing Nintendo over saving your log-in info to the DS for use in other games. If somebody patented "anything to do with navigating a file-system", well they may know that computers aren't really run by hamsters, but they'd also have been given something way too horribly broad.
Stupid patents get granted. These may even be stupid (even though Apple gets allLLll this praise over the intuitiveness of the iPod...). It really doesn't matter. Prior art still has to be specific.
"that's like saying using tires on cars doesnt count as prior art for a patent on tires for wagons or gokarts."
No, it's not. It's more like saying that using tires on cars doesn't count as prior art for a patent on swings. Not a great example either, but at least it illustrates how dissimilar things have to be.
"if the interface was used to browse files on an electronic device then it should count, they are functionally no different."
An interface on NeXTStep has nothing to do with an interface on a portable MP3 device. Different goals, different markets. Go ask a patent attorney. I did, this is why I know this.
"seriously hundreds of posts about this in half a dozen dupe stories have pointed out so many examples of prior art it's insane."
Did any of these prior art examples have to do with music players? If not, then no, they don't count. Just because you saw an interface in Windows 3.1 that worked the same way doesn't mean that's patent-refuting-prior-art.
At first I thought having the word 'Nano' in my nick sounded cool and high tech, but now that they're attaching it to words like 'cups' I'm having second thoughts.
"Simple concept? No, it isn't. Transverse recording is a major jump in technology from longitudinal recording."
I think the point is widely being missed here. If only six men built the Great Wall of China, that would be worthy of a number of exclamation points. It isn't so easy to measure a leap of technology by the number of people who were or weren't involved in developing it. It's sort of like saying the only 3 cans of Mountain Dew were consumed while developing the MP3 algorithm.
Virtually non-existent again until the N64. Now it's standard fare on everything except the Sony systems.
"Analog stick, Emerson Arcadia, 1982"
Virtually non-existent again until the N64. Now it's standard fare on everything.
"Rumble, Sony Dual Analog Japanese version, 1996 (Rumble Pack was 1997)"
Nintendo's Rumble Pack was announced well before the Dual Analog Sony controller came out. This is the exact reason Nintendo was so secretive about the Rev controller.
I never used the word invent. Nintendo's been leading the controller parade since the SNES. They have also been leading the portable parade, despite bringing up the Virtual Boy.
"The intense amount of noise created by the small minority who are haters (of whatever camp) is incredibly annoying. It gets so loud, that it can persuade you to believe that almost everyone is a hater. Don't fall for it. Be positive and I will be positive with you. Be negative, and you will be negative by yourself."
I appreciate the comment. You're right.
I'd say more but it'd be just a basic restating of what you've already said. hehe. Thanks.:)
"Dude, get with the times, XP still blue screens, the Vista beta blue screens, hell we have seen screenshots of the Xbox360 blue screen (though weren't they actualy grey?), so trying to sweep MS's flaws under the rug is still BS and I will call you on it."
Go ahead. You'll just hear the testimony of a bunch of people telling you that Microsoft virtually killed the BSOD with the release of 2k. Ignorance of this fact is part of the reason ppl keep rushing to Microsoft's defense. It's not because everybody loves BillyG.
"And yes Steve was a bit dishonest with benchmarks, but then benchmarks are just a form of statistics."
Heh. "... trying to sweep Apple's flaws under the rug is still BS and I will call you on it." Funny.
"...but I wonder just how many times you incited the ire you received."
It's a matter of perspective. In some ways, I deserve some of it. I let out a few harsh words. I am in no way claiming to be 100% innocent, only that I was treated unjustly. I On the other hand, several of my unrelated posts were modded down. I could nost post from a certain IP address for 3 weeks as a result of it. There's no way in my mind I deserved that. (I also recieved numerous positive mods on the topic...) There have been other times over the years where I made a small quip about Apple and was modded down severely for it. For example: Somebody put a PC inside of their iMac case. And I said something like "It's the first time GTA was ever seen on a Mac!" Flamebait.
"Your sig seems indicative of a crude way of expressing yourself at best."
It's funny how one can always find information to support their point of view. Heh. Anyway, this sig is the result, not the cause. When I had been modded down enough times to get banned, the only way to get my message out was to change my sig. So, that's what I did. Mature? No. Disarming? No. Intelligent? No. Says anything about what I deserved? No.
This is not the first time I have run into this problem, rather it's the first time I was actually banned for it. Worse, it was malicious. Pinning it solely on me is dangerous.
"Try saying something actually insightful sometime, and maybe your precious karma will not be so horrible in the future."
[This comment is also OT, no hard feelings if modded down.]
I don't care about my karma. I care about getting banned because of thin-skinned shitheads like you who band together and go overboard on the modding down of comments that aren't perfectly aligned to your view of the world.
As for being insightful, that is exactly the problem. On this topic, I cannot speak my mind. I have to be insightful, which in this context, means I have to kiss Apple's ass. "It's okay that Apple won't license their technology so other devices can use iTunes! Of course, we'd tar and feather Microsoft if they tried that.""It's great that I Apple won't let people install OSX on non-Apple approved hardware!"
"Maybe you keep getting modded down because you write off-topic rants about moderation and Apple fans, including a rather crude sig file, while adding absolutley nothing to the discussion."
I'll be happy to un-crudify my sig when I can speak honestly about the topics at hand without having to fear mod-retaliation. I realize you don't want to hear a company you like getting bad-mouthed, tough shit. You and I both have a right to speak our minds. If you had ever been on the wrong side of Slashdot's public opinion, you'd see where I was coming from.
"Haven't you heard? It's cool to hate Apple now. It makes you '1337."
[Warning: This is an OT rant, no hard feelings if modded down.]
Wish I had known that before I made a not-so-nice comment about Apple which resulted in several mods going well out of their way to mod me down until I couldn't post on Slashdot for a couple of weeks. (From a certain IP, anyway. At least now you understand the origins of my sig.)
If it has suddenly become a little too cool to hate Apple now, I blame extremist mods for it. Over the years I've made silly little quips about Apple that nobody on Earth should have taken too seriously and have been mod-bombed over it. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if, out of anger, they were finally M2'd out and the replacements came in to even up the balance by shifting over to the extreme opposite view. (i.e. over-modding anti-Apple sentiment.) Too much zealotry will always lead to people with too much opposition to your view.
This has already happened with regards to Microsoft. Go back a few years and ANY comment ridiculing or insulting MS would be modded up, but polite criticisms of Linux would be modded down. Even uninformed posts (i.e. there still seems to be some impression that Win2K was built on the same kernel that Windows 98 was) would get modded up. 2K is nearly 6 years old now, XP is 4, and the BSOD is virtually gone. Yet, the blue screen jokes STILL fly with full karma around here. The result? People stand up and say "uh, you guys need to get with the 21st century." People whinge about MS fanboys flooding Slashdot. Sorry, can't see that from my point of view. Fire is being fought with fire. My advice? Don't give Apple praise for being wrong or Microsoft scorn for being right.
No, I'm not pro-MS or anti-Apple, I'm just tired of these karma-fueled battles happening every year. I appreciate Taco's desire to keep Slashdot 'democratic', but it's irritating that ordinary Homer Simpson'ish people are allowed to be cops.
"I think it's frustration, really. Dupes happen quite frequently and every time potential easy solutions are pointed out by readers."
That doesn't really answer the question, though. What is so frustrating about dupes? "I've read this before!!! What a gyp! This causes me physical paaaaaaaaaaaaaaain!!!"
I have a much simpler solution: Scroll past the dupe. Don't click on the comments button. Don't click reply. Don't click the D, U, P, E, or ! keys. Don't click submit. Don't embarrass yourself by being the 15th person to whine about it. (How come the Dupe Gestapo never checks that there's already a comment made about the dupe before bitching about the dupe?)
This is pretty sad, really. I'm glad I don't rely on Slashdot to have fresh content every single fucking time it posts.
"Really? Are they going to kill your friends off and tell you to suck it up and keep fighting? Are they going to separate you from your family for months/years at a time?"
I had two interesting things happen during my short stint in that game. First, during the drill practces, I pointed my cursor at the drill instructor because he was talking. I was suddenly demeritied for pointing my gun at an officer. Second, I killed a team mate and ended up in prison. I was actally trapped in a little cell where I couldn't go anywhere. WTF? heh.
Okay, it's not the same, but they really did put some interesting war related details into that game.
Slashdot Mirror
"ps3 will play your bluray movies and run linux and play ps3,ps2, and psone video games! all way under the price of a standalone bluray movie player."
By the time the PS3 has enough units in stores that you'll be able to actually purchase one (probably March of next year), how much will the BR players cost?
In any event, can't say I care much. The DVD on the PS2 was BY FAR the worst DVD player I've ever had, and I've purchased $30 cheapos from Walmart. I wouldn't even consider the PS3 if I were building an HD theater.
"but i wasn't talking about searching, i was talking about file browsing, and --in the case of filebrowsing--yes it is.. it is funcionally the same, it uses the same processes and has the same interface, save the computer has a larger screen."
Before I reply: Are you talking about Creative's patent or browsing for music on MP3 devices in general?
I have a feeling I'm starting to see where our disagreement is coming from, I may owe you an apology.
"filebrowsing is filebrowsing on an electronics device with data storage weather its a fully fledged pc, a pda, or an mp3 player."
:P
No, it is not. You don't even have the same HID across the devices you mentioned, let alone the same requirements for the end-user. Searching for a song on an iPod != searching for an image on your desktop. Somebody with an iq greater than your shoesize to realize that Apple's wheel is not a mouse or a touch screen or even a chair in front of a desk.
"the proposed and struck down patent on "hyperlinking" applied to all devices and software which used the internet, not just computers."
Yes, that would be an overly broad patent. It happens sometimes. I'm not suggesting that Creative's or Apple's isn't. I'm saying you still have to be careful with the prior art. I understand a little more clearly where you're coming from now, so I'll modify the wording of my point a bit: You need to find prior art that would be considered 'infringement' on this patent. I wasn't thinking so much about unfairly granted overly-broad patents when I wrote it originally. Apologies for the confusion.
"but they are, and the problem is people like your patent lawyer who lack the technological literacy to see a patent on something obvious right in front of their face, and who grant those obvious and broad patents."
Patent lawyers don't grant patents, they apply for them.
Seriously, though, 'overly broad' and 'obvious patents' are two seperate discussions. I agree with you on the overly broad bit, that sucks. A company I worked at ages ago was burned that way. Obvious, though, is in the eye of the beholder. Not only are you speaking in hindsight, but you're also viewing the components in a different way than others would. I'll give you an example: A man and a woman are nearly identical, anatomically speaking. Yet, many people consider them almost opposites. It just depends on how you view it.
File browsing is file broswing, but data has an infinite number of uses.
"both the computer and the portable player have stored files to browse by category from a filesystem."
Doesn't matter. A computer and a portable player are not the same thing. They don't do the same job. They both use 1's and 0's to store data, but the similarity ends there.
"the patent attourney you asked might know his patent law, but he doesnt know squat about how a computer works, ill bet he thinks it's full of hampsters doing math on miniature abici"
I know, I know. Opinions are strong, so we attack the intelligence of the lawyer. Whatever. The point is that if patents were as broad as you're suggesting, the world would be a much shittier place. It's the fact that they (mostly...) keep those patents that specific that prevents lawsuits like Amazon suing Nintendo over saving your log-in info to the DS for use in other games. If somebody patented "anything to do with navigating a file-system", well they may know that computers aren't really run by hamsters, but they'd also have been given something way too horribly broad.
Stupid patents get granted. These may even be stupid (even though Apple gets allLLll this praise over the intuitiveness of the iPod...). It really doesn't matter. Prior art still has to be specific.
"that's like saying using tires on cars doesnt count as prior art for a patent on tires for wagons or gokarts."
No, it's not. It's more like saying that using tires on cars doesn't count as prior art for a patent on swings. Not a great example either, but at least it illustrates how dissimilar things have to be.
"if the interface was used to browse files on an electronic device then it should count, they are functionally no different."
An interface on NeXTStep has nothing to do with an interface on a portable MP3 device. Different goals, different markets. Go ask a patent attorney. I did, this is why I know this.
"The menu in iPod is identical to the list view in NeXTStep , predating anything Creative did."
So? NeXTSTep wasn't a portable music player.
"seriously hundreds of posts about this in half a dozen dupe stories have pointed out so many examples of prior art it's insane."
Did any of these prior art examples have to do with music players? If not, then no, they don't count. Just because you saw an interface in Windows 3.1 that worked the same way doesn't mean that's patent-refuting-prior-art.
"I guess it is completely non-obvious and innovative that a portable music player would need a menu to navigate through its songs."
It's about the specific implementation, not whether or not the player would need one. I can't believe your comment got modded up.
"Or, as in this case, any story with a headline that will start an instant flame war."
I'm surprised they didn't wait until Friday evening to post this. Woulda gotten more hits!
"Why this fascination with speed?"
Most jobs depend more on one's ability to meet deadlines.
"First you crawl back up into your mother then are sucked out of there by your dad. Wonderfull. I hope they have shrinks in the pre-life."
What about Santa Claus? What a bastard! He's just a big fat git who sneaks down chimneys and steals all the kids' favorite toys!
At first I thought having the word 'Nano' in my nick sounded cool and high tech, but now that they're attaching it to words like 'cups' I'm having second thoughts.
"I thought a microcup is what your girlfriend has..."
Everybody who's gettin some tonight, raise your hand! O/
How many of you learned a lesson about making fun of girlfriends around here?
"Simple concept? No, it isn't. Transverse recording is a major jump in technology from longitudinal recording."
I think the point is widely being missed here. If only six men built the Great Wall of China, that would be worthy of a number of exclamation points. It isn't so easy to measure a leap of technology by the number of people who were or weren't involved in developing it. It's sort of like saying the only 3 cans of Mountain Dew were consumed while developing the MP3 algorithm.
OMG! I predicterered this!! LOL
Erm. I think somebody failed to notice the humor in that post.
"4 Controller Ports, Bally Astrocade, 1980"
Virtually non-existent again until the N64. Now it's standard fare on everything except the Sony systems.
"Analog stick, Emerson Arcadia, 1982"
Virtually non-existent again until the N64. Now it's standard fare on everything.
"Rumble, Sony Dual Analog Japanese version, 1996 (Rumble Pack was 1997)"
Nintendo's Rumble Pack was announced well before the Dual Analog Sony controller came out. This is the exact reason Nintendo was so secretive about the Rev controller.
I never used the word invent. Nintendo's been leading the controller parade since the SNES. They have also been leading the portable parade, despite bringing up the Virtual Boy.
"Such claims need to be taken with a rather large grain of salt - Virtual Boy, anyone?"
Shoulder buttons/4 controller ports/analog stick/Rumble Pak anyone?
"The intense amount of noise created by the small minority who are haters (of whatever camp) is incredibly annoying. It gets so loud, that it can persuade you to believe that almost everyone is a hater. Don't fall for it. Be positive and I will be positive with you. Be negative, and you will be negative by yourself."
:)
I appreciate the comment. You're right.
I'd say more but it'd be just a basic restating of what you've already said. hehe. Thanks.
"Dude, get with the times, XP still blue screens, the Vista beta blue screens, hell we have seen screenshots of the Xbox360 blue screen (though weren't they actualy grey?), so trying to sweep MS's flaws under the rug is still BS and I will call you on it."
Go ahead. You'll just hear the testimony of a bunch of people telling you that Microsoft virtually killed the BSOD with the release of 2k. Ignorance of this fact is part of the reason ppl keep rushing to Microsoft's defense. It's not because everybody loves BillyG.
"And yes Steve was a bit dishonest with benchmarks, but then benchmarks are just a form of statistics."
Heh. "... trying to sweep Apple's flaws under the rug is still BS and I will call you on it." Funny.
"...but I wonder just how many times you incited the ire you received."
It's a matter of perspective. In some ways, I deserve some of it. I let out a few harsh words. I am in no way claiming to be 100% innocent, only that I was treated unjustly. I On the other hand, several of my unrelated posts were modded down. I could nost post from a certain IP address for 3 weeks as a result of it. There's no way in my mind I deserved that. (I also recieved numerous positive mods on the topic...) There have been other times over the years where I made a small quip about Apple and was modded down severely for it. For example: Somebody put a PC inside of their iMac case. And I said something like "It's the first time GTA was ever seen on a Mac!" Flamebait.
"Your sig seems indicative of a crude way of expressing yourself at best."
It's funny how one can always find information to support their point of view. Heh. Anyway, this sig is the result, not the cause. When I had been modded down enough times to get banned, the only way to get my message out was to change my sig. So, that's what I did. Mature? No. Disarming? No. Intelligent? No. Says anything about what I deserved? No.
This is not the first time I have run into this problem, rather it's the first time I was actually banned for it. Worse, it was malicious. Pinning it solely on me is dangerous.
"Try saying something actually insightful sometime, and maybe your precious karma will not be so horrible in the future."
[This comment is also OT, no hard feelings if modded down.]
I don't care about my karma. I care about getting banned because of thin-skinned shitheads like you who band together and go overboard on the modding down of comments that aren't perfectly aligned to your view of the world.
As for being insightful, that is exactly the problem. On this topic, I cannot speak my mind. I have to be insightful, which in this context, means I have to kiss Apple's ass. "It's okay that Apple won't license their technology so other devices can use iTunes! Of course, we'd tar and feather Microsoft if they tried that." "It's great that I Apple won't let people install OSX on non-Apple approved hardware!"
"Maybe you keep getting modded down because you write off-topic rants about moderation and Apple fans, including a rather crude sig file, while adding absolutley nothing to the discussion."
I'll be happy to un-crudify my sig when I can speak honestly about the topics at hand without having to fear mod-retaliation. I realize you don't want to hear a company you like getting bad-mouthed, tough shit. You and I both have a right to speak our minds. If you had ever been on the wrong side of Slashdot's public opinion, you'd see where I was coming from.
"Haven't you heard? It's cool to hate Apple now. It makes you '1337."
[Warning: This is an OT rant, no hard feelings if modded down.]
Wish I had known that before I made a not-so-nice comment about Apple which resulted in several mods going well out of their way to mod me down until I couldn't post on Slashdot for a couple of weeks. (From a certain IP, anyway. At least now you understand the origins of my sig.)
If it has suddenly become a little too cool to hate Apple now, I blame extremist mods for it. Over the years I've made silly little quips about Apple that nobody on Earth should have taken too seriously and have been mod-bombed over it. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if, out of anger, they were finally M2'd out and the replacements came in to even up the balance by shifting over to the extreme opposite view. (i.e. over-modding anti-Apple sentiment.) Too much zealotry will always lead to people with too much opposition to your view.
This has already happened with regards to Microsoft. Go back a few years and ANY comment ridiculing or insulting MS would be modded up, but polite criticisms of Linux would be modded down. Even uninformed posts (i.e. there still seems to be some impression that Win2K was built on the same kernel that Windows 98 was) would get modded up. 2K is nearly 6 years old now, XP is 4, and the BSOD is virtually gone. Yet, the blue screen jokes STILL fly with full karma around here. The result? People stand up and say "uh, you guys need to get with the 21st century." People whinge about MS fanboys flooding Slashdot. Sorry, can't see that from my point of view. Fire is being fought with fire. My advice? Don't give Apple praise for being wrong or Microsoft scorn for being right.
No, I'm not pro-MS or anti-Apple, I'm just tired of these karma-fueled battles happening every year. I appreciate Taco's desire to keep Slashdot 'democratic', but it's irritating that ordinary Homer Simpson'ish people are allowed to be cops.
"I think it's frustration, really. Dupes happen quite frequently and every time potential easy solutions are pointed out by readers."
That doesn't really answer the question, though. What is so frustrating about dupes? "I've read this before!!! What a gyp! This causes me physical paaaaaaaaaaaaaaain!!!"
I have a much simpler solution: Scroll past the dupe. Don't click on the comments button. Don't click reply. Don't click the D, U, P, E, or ! keys. Don't click submit. Don't embarrass yourself by being the 15th person to whine about it. (How come the Dupe Gestapo never checks that there's already a comment made about the dupe before bitching about the dupe?)
This is pretty sad, really. I'm glad I don't rely on Slashdot to have fresh content every single fucking time it posts.
"Really? Are they going to kill your friends off and tell you to suck it up and keep fighting? Are they going to separate you from your family for months/years at a time?"
I had two interesting things happen during my short stint in that game. First, during the drill practces, I pointed my cursor at the drill instructor because he was talking. I was suddenly demeritied for pointing my gun at an officer. Second, I killed a team mate and ended up in prison. I was actally trapped in a little cell where I couldn't go anywhere. WTF? heh.
Okay, it's not the same, but they really did put some interesting war related details into that game.