"Thank you for rehashing the same argument that was beaten to death on here for months."
A.) I don't care if it's talked about as much as making beowulf clusters out of everything, I didn't participate in that argument. I have no interest in Linux as a gaming platform so I don't know why you think it's a prerequisite for me to know what agruments have gone on about it. Thank you for rehashing the argument that arguments are rehashed when they could be avoided by dedicating your life to knowing about it.
B.) A game that sells 10,000 - 40,000 copies is not a success. It's pathetic. I don't care how much money was funneled away into somebody's account, those #'s are scary to somebody saying "Let's start a Linux game company!".
C.) Regardless of Loki's internal problems, they had 0 chance of becoming big if they established themselves as a port company. You could replace 'Loki' with any other company/management, the poblem is the exact same.
To summarize, no matter what happened to Loki, my comment still stands: Linux is not a market for the game industry to cater to. If you're going to argue with me, argue that since it was my point.
The problem is that the game market is a novelty market. Lots of companies make games that will be interesting for about a month and then move on. If memory serves, Loki ported games that had already been out for a while.
The problem is that this means Loki will never really hit mass market. The people who buy the games buy them right away. If it takes a year (for example) to port the game, then it's lost nearly all of it's value, even if it's a classic like Quake 3.
What we need is for a couple of risk taking companies to start making games strictly for Linux. (Maybe port to PC a little later...) Get the game market started on that OS, and you'll start to see more concurrent development.
As the Mac has already proven, an OS is not going to get lots of 'me-too' games. If Linux users really want to play games, I'm sorry to say it, but they're going to need to build a Windows box.
Yep, they're evil for shutting down a service that let unauthorized people play Battle.Net games and leaked copies of the Warcraft 3 beta.
They are such bastards for creating AAA games and taking steps to protect them.
You are far better off hating the DMCA than hating Blizzard. Is the real problem that Blizzard sued to stop a questionable service, or that the DMCA gave them the power to do it?
1.) The jamming would be localized to the event. There'd be lots of people there. Somebody calling 911 from a Cell phone is going to make the dispatcher's job lots more difficult than somebody calling from a pay phone. Imagine trying to find somebody hurt in a sea of people.
2.) There'll be *lots* of security at a place like that, so if somebody does get hurt, calling 911 from a cell phone wouldn't be as useful as hunting down a security guard. (I'm sure that'll draw debate, I'm just trying to establish that cell phone usage during this type of event is probably not going to be that high.)
3.) Are you willing to go to a public event like that without adequate security measures? I honestly don't know how most people feel. We just had the Rose Parade here in Portland where a few military ships docked. This year, I live right by the river that these boats travel down. I'm less than a city block away from where they were docked.
I was a little nervous about spending a whole lot of time there, but the extra security made me more comfortable. Though some of my freedomes were gone (they really restricted travel around that area), I felt like there was little that could happen.
But if the security was as lax as last year, I'm not sure I'd feel so good about hanging around there.
There are those who have no fear, I do not speak for them. I'm just saying "Does the extra security make you feel more comfortable?"
To me, losing my cell phone over it at a public event like the Pope coming isn't that big of deal. That doesn't mean I'll lay down and take everything they want to do, it just sounds reasonable for the moment. I won't accept jamming at movie theaters, airports, or places that are public every single day, though.
"Ah but you do gain knowledge reading a book while waiting for a bus, opposed to concentrating on driving."
You can read all you want, you don't gain experience by reading. Just information. You can read a book about how cars can be modified all day, it's nowhere near as useful as actually doing it. If it were that good, you could get a good paying job straight out of college.
"Getting the most out of your car" isn't going to be gas mileage, it's handling and speed." -- I didn't say mileage, I simply said the best. I didn't leave a word out. Some people tweak for mileage, some tweak for performance, some tweak just to figure out more about how it works.
"Embarrasing comments? I think he made a valid point. I'd reasses who made the silly comment." -- No he really didn't. If this had been a thread like "what kind of car should I buy?", then yes he'd have had a valid point. In this case, he went into a thread and said "you'd be better off not pursuing your interest and learning to live without it." Sorry, I don't see that as a valid point. When I challenged him on it, his response was basically that he didn't feel like explaining it to me. I think it's funny that you think I'm the troll because I challenged him. You should really look at his post and think about what a car afficiando (sp?) would think of that remark.
"Nor do I see how having a hobby or multiple hobbies prevents one from saying stupid stuff..." -- heh. Didn't take any time to brainstorm, didja?
Well, I won't get into the insulting comments I could have made, but I'll keep it to the point: If you have a hobby, then you know what it's like for somebody else to be fascinated with something. For example, I don't get Linux. I tried it, didn't like it. But when a story like 'Linux can play Sorenson videos', I don't jump in and say something stupid like "I have a better solution for you guys, use Windows."
That's basically what the parent poster did. He could have regained some respect from me if he had made a valid point. I don't think he had one, though. I think he just went karma whoring by saying the opposite of what other people were saying.
Of course, if he had provided a reasonable response, my attitude about that could potentially be different.
oh well. I have a tip for you though: A troll doesn't take the time to explain himself. Ponder that before you call me one again.
No no, you're way off. He slipped in the bathroom and hit his head, generating a flash of inspiration. He's trying to figure out the significance of 88 miles per hour.
"People are understandably reluctant to add real engineering discipline to software development..."
I found this 'alternative reason to why software sucks...' to be true with 3D Animation as well.
As a hobby, I assist people entering into the world of 3D art. My goal is to teach them professional methods to achieve their goals. What I've found interesting, though, is that a lot of them are reluctant to actually design what it is they are building or animating.
With new recruits, I can almost never get them to actually sit down with some paper and design the robot they want to build, for example. What they try to do is just sit down and build it. I'll hear stuff like "Oh I can't draw...", or "It's faster if I just sit down and build it. I know what I want it to look like."
The results? Well, the models they invent are... well.. ameteurish. But when they make a model that they have lots of reference of, like the starship Enterprise for example, then they look top notch. Even presented with such a startling comparison, they still refuse to do the design work. Why? Because it adds overhead to their project.
I really think what happens is that they have in inaccurate impression of what being a 3D artist really entails. This is similar to what Ray said in his post about why software sucks. The sad thing is that until they start taking approaches like designing your model, they'll always look like a 3D newb.
Is there a solution? Well, I have an idea as to how to help both the 3D Artists and the Programmers out there: Make it clear that there is more to their job than just poking keys. I had no idea what all a Software Engineer (I used to call them Programmers...) did until I got a job at a software company. I had the impression in my mind that all they did was write code. The thought of them doing things like 'designing the UI' was alien to me.
Heck, before I got a job doing 3D, I thought all I had to do was build a model as fast as I possibly could. I expected they'd give me 3 days to do what would normally take me a week. I had no idea that they'd actually give me time to design and understand my model before building it. I spent over a year trying to be faster in LW, only to find that faster isn't what they wanted.
In short, I think it's very important to alter the perception out there about what a job really entails. If somebody aspiring to be a programmer knows that they need to pay attention to design and UI, then they'll be far more observant about those aspects during their education. If I had known how much learning to draw would help me with my 3D work, I would have done a lot more drawing exercises in high school.
"What If I stream a channel to an offshore site, can they then distribute it (basically an offshore co-location, um, without the co.) If I run a shoutcast server from my DSL line in the states, will they come and sue me?"
What they'd do is label you a pirate, and then get your DSL account removed. I think that's what happened to Film88.com, but if somebody has more insight into what'd happen I'm all ears.
I am curious what'd happen if you co-located a server with music on it ready to stream, and then paid for your bandwidth in advance. They may be able to send you to jail, but they can't shut down the server... at least that makes sense with the limited knowledge I have right now.
I'm curious too. The Linux community could use the feedback. If the problem is that it's too hard to support Linux users and maintain customer satisfaction, then Linux should be more evolved to make it easier.
If the problem is that Linux gurus are too expensive to keep on hand, coupled with too few people buying the laptops, then there's little to do about that other than have people provide unofficial support.
Imagine if Tom's Harware bought up new laptops, got Linux running on them, and documented what it took to fix some of the basic problems that came up.
A site like that 6 months ago (when I tried to install it on my laptop...) would have meant I'd be a Linux user today.
"If it stops being compatible, my next laptop won't be a ThinkPad. Too bad, because the machines are solid. "
I dunno if that's the attitude I'd have. The reason you buy a Laptop from IBM is their manufacturing compatibility and support. (support meaning they'll replace a defective component...)
If there's an icompatibility with Linux and one of these Laptops, then people should rush to fix it. The reason I'm saying this is that corps who buy these laptops aren't going to be worried about Linux until they really really need it. It'd be a lot easier for everybody if the information on how to make Linux work on an incompatible laptop were easy to find for the non-Linux initiated.
I'd have been a Linux user 6 months ago if I could have gotten it to work on my laptop. Unfortunately, I couldn't find what I needed to fix it, so it got Windows 2000 instead. It'll be a while before I have the free time to pursue that again.
I'm thinking of the Linux community as a whole, here. I can understand somebody saying "This laptop won't do me any good if it doesn't wrong what I need", hell I'd have the same attitude. I'm just thinking that if everybody says that, then this will always be a Microsoft world.
"And that includes 3" CDs of course, which were the first portable digital audio media, and still used in stuff like digital cameras today..."
Just an FYI: At CompUSA I found some 2.5" x(roughly) Black CD-RW's. Yes, RW's. I bought them because I plan on getting a mini-CD MP3 player from ThinkGeek.com eventually, but in the mean time I've found them useful in carrying data around the office. For example, I needed to get a network driver to somebody so I just burned the disk and carried it over.
Did it make a difference that I used it instead of a full sized CD? Not really, no. But when I'm ferrying data between here and home (pedestrian), those little guys are much easier to carry than their big older brothers.
In any case, if you're interested in these CD RW's, they're at CompUSA. I paid $13 for 10 of them.:)
"Too many people are happy with their CDs right now..."
I respectfully disagree: There are lots of people buying solid-state MP3 players because of their size. I have a Rio that is smaller than a pack of cigs, and runs on one AA battery.
Media like this could make tiny MP3 players a very hot commodity. With CD's, 5.5" is a small as the player is going to get.
"Instead of fitting twice as much on a coin sized cd why not fit a lot more Gb on a regular sized CD? "
Some of us ache for something smaller. A CD Player, for example, can be a PITA to carry around in your pocket, particularly on a plane.
Also, one day I'd like to watch movies on my PocketPC. With a disk that small, they could make a palm sized movie player. There is value in that if you can record from your PVR to it.
Slashdot Mirror
"Thank you for rehashing the same argument that was beaten to death on here for months."
A.) I don't care if it's talked about as much as making beowulf clusters out of everything, I didn't participate in that argument. I have no interest in Linux as a gaming platform so I don't know why you think it's a prerequisite for me to know what agruments have gone on about it. Thank you for rehashing the argument that arguments are rehashed when they could be avoided by dedicating your life to knowing about it.
B.) A game that sells 10,000 - 40,000 copies is not a success. It's pathetic. I don't care how much money was funneled away into somebody's account, those #'s are scary to somebody saying "Let's start a Linux game company!".
C.) Regardless of Loki's internal problems, they had 0 chance of becoming big if they established themselves as a port company. You could replace 'Loki' with any other company/management, the poblem is the exact same.
To summarize, no matter what happened to Loki, my comment still stands: Linux is not a market for the game industry to cater to. If you're going to argue with me, argue that since it was my point.
"Why, then, is there a linux version of Return to Castle Wolfenstein?"
Because the only absolute in our world is that all humans require oxygen to survive.
*sick of people acting like I'm either extremist or absolute.*
"A game company released a patch. That's front
page news."
Somebody made a "it's not newsworthy!' post without considering the ramifications of the article. That was worth reading.
"When will Loki be resurected!?
Never. Not unless they make new games for Linux.
The problem is that the game market is a novelty market. Lots of companies make games that will be interesting for about a month and then move on. If memory serves, Loki ported games that had already been out for a while.
The problem is that this means Loki will never really hit mass market. The people who buy the games buy them right away. If it takes a year (for example) to port the game, then it's lost nearly all of it's value, even if it's a classic like Quake 3.
What we need is for a couple of risk taking companies to start making games strictly for Linux. (Maybe port to PC a little later...) Get the game market started on that OS, and you'll start to see more concurrent development.
As the Mac has already proven, an OS is not going to get lots of 'me-too' games. If Linux users really want to play games, I'm sorry to say it, but they're going to need to build a Windows box.
"Now I know I can count on Slashdot to tell me whenever my games get patched, because isn't that why we are really here?"
;)
Only if it's a Linux version of an ancient game.
"But they're Evil! But they're Good! *smoke* "
Yep, they're evil for shutting down a service that let unauthorized people play Battle.Net games and leaked copies of the Warcraft 3 beta.
They are such bastards for creating AAA games and taking steps to protect them.
You are far better off hating the DMCA than hating Blizzard. Is the real problem that Blizzard sued to stop a questionable service, or that the DMCA gave them the power to do it?
Here are a few points to add to it:
1.) The jamming would be localized to the event. There'd be lots of people there. Somebody calling 911 from a Cell phone is going to make the dispatcher's job lots more difficult than somebody calling from a pay phone. Imagine trying to find somebody hurt in a sea of people.
2.) There'll be *lots* of security at a place like that, so if somebody does get hurt, calling 911 from a cell phone wouldn't be as useful as hunting down a security guard. (I'm sure that'll draw debate, I'm just trying to establish that cell phone usage during this type of event is probably not going to be that high.)
3.) Are you willing to go to a public event like that without adequate security measures? I honestly don't know how most people feel. We just had the Rose Parade here in Portland where a few military ships docked. This year, I live right by the river that these boats travel down. I'm less than a city block away from where they were docked.
I was a little nervous about spending a whole lot of time there, but the extra security made me more comfortable. Though some of my freedomes were gone (they really restricted travel around that area), I felt like there was little that could happen.
But if the security was as lax as last year, I'm not sure I'd feel so good about hanging around there.
There are those who have no fear, I do not speak for them. I'm just saying "Does the extra security make you feel more comfortable?"
To me, losing my cell phone over it at a public event like the Pope coming isn't that big of deal. That doesn't mean I'll lay down and take everything they want to do, it just sounds reasonable for the moment. I won't accept jamming at movie theaters, airports, or places that are public every single day, though.
Hmm okay. I read that as "You don't want to read what I said or think about what I said".
Reread it and agree that's what he meant, however I still disagree that he made an interesting post.
I think it's similar to going into that 'Sorenson for Linux' thread and saying "Why don't you guys just use Windows?"
"Ah but you do gain knowledge reading a book while waiting for a bus, opposed to concentrating on driving."
You can read all you want, you don't gain experience by reading. Just information. You can read a book about how cars can be modified all day, it's nowhere near as useful as actually doing it. If it were that good, you could get a good paying job straight out of college.
"Getting the most out of your car" isn't going to be gas mileage, it's handling and speed." -- I didn't say mileage, I simply said the best. I didn't leave a word out. Some people tweak for mileage, some tweak for performance, some tweak just to figure out more about how it works.
"Embarrasing comments? I think he made a valid point. I'd reasses who made the silly comment." -- No he really didn't. If this had been a thread like "what kind of car should I buy?", then yes he'd have had a valid point. In this case, he went into a thread and said "you'd be better off not pursuing your interest and learning to live without it." Sorry, I don't see that as a valid point. When I challenged him on it, his response was basically that he didn't feel like explaining it to me. I think it's funny that you think I'm the troll because I challenged him. You should really look at his post and think about what a car afficiando (sp?) would think of that remark.
"Nor do I see how having a hobby or multiple hobbies prevents one from saying stupid stuff..." -- heh. Didn't take any time to brainstorm, didja?
Well, I won't get into the insulting comments I could have made, but I'll keep it to the point: If you have a hobby, then you know what it's like for somebody else to be fascinated with something. For example, I don't get Linux. I tried it, didn't like it. But when a story like 'Linux can play Sorenson videos', I don't jump in and say something stupid like "I have a better solution for you guys, use Windows."
That's basically what the parent poster did. He could have regained some respect from me if he had made a valid point. I don't think he had one, though. I think he just went karma whoring by saying the opposite of what other people were saying.
Of course, if he had provided a reasonable response, my attitude about that could potentially be different.
oh well. I have a tip for you though: A troll doesn't take the time to explain himself. Ponder that before you call me one again.
"You learn important lessons."
He yep you do. For example: Don't install a digital steering wheel right away...
No no, you're way off. He slipped in the bathroom and hit his head, generating a flash of inspiration. He's trying to figure out the significance of 88 miles per hour.
"If you could drop in a new AMD processor in there and get a big performance enhancement."
Wouldn't that drastically dim my headlights?
"I disagree completely, but have no idea how to convince you. Do you never read, or think? "
You could start by explaining why you completely disagree. It's easy to 'never read' what is 'never said'.
"Instead of fixing up the car, modify your life by getting rid of it entirely. "
The problem with your logic is that you don't gain any new knowledge or experience by 'waiting for the bus'.
You don't modify your car to get from Point A to point B faster, you modify your car to get the most out of it that you can.
It's called a hobby. If you were to take up one or two of those, you might avoid making such embarrasing comments.
An algorithm is not an entire program. In 3D terms, an algorithm is like a piece of a model or a texture map.
"Yet now we put up with half our income being stripped by taxes..."
:)
Yah.. but you have to admit, with our money they are able to purchase rather impressive weaponry and blow shit up with it!
"Wow, you must either be carrying around a LOT of files...or you are one weak motherfucker."
Heh. So I carry around so much data that I require smaller sized CD's that have less data storage?
Dontcha think you should have applied a little more logic before coming to such a ridiculous assumption.
CD's are too big to fit in my pocket. Mini-CD's fit. There, logic. Nice, iddn't it?
"People are understandably reluctant to add real engineering discipline to software development..."
... well.. ameteurish. But when they make a model that they have lots of reference of, like the starship Enterprise for example, then they look top notch. Even presented with such a startling comparison, they still refuse to do the design work. Why? Because it adds overhead to their project.
I found this 'alternative reason to why software sucks...' to be true with 3D Animation as well.
As a hobby, I assist people entering into the world of 3D art. My goal is to teach them professional methods to achieve their goals. What I've found interesting, though, is that a lot of them are reluctant to actually design what it is they are building or animating.
With new recruits, I can almost never get them to actually sit down with some paper and design the robot they want to build, for example. What they try to do is just sit down and build it. I'll hear stuff like "Oh I can't draw...", or "It's faster if I just sit down and build it. I know what I want it to look like."
The results? Well, the models they invent are
I really think what happens is that they have in inaccurate impression of what being a 3D artist really entails. This is similar to what Ray said in his post about why software sucks. The sad thing is that until they start taking approaches like designing your model, they'll always look like a 3D newb.
Is there a solution? Well, I have an idea as to how to help both the 3D Artists and the Programmers out there: Make it clear that there is more to their job than just poking keys. I had no idea what all a Software Engineer (I used to call them Programmers...) did until I got a job at a software company. I had the impression in my mind that all they did was write code. The thought of them doing things like 'designing the UI' was alien to me.
Heck, before I got a job doing 3D, I thought all I had to do was build a model as fast as I possibly could. I expected they'd give me 3 days to do what would normally take me a week. I had no idea that they'd actually give me time to design and understand my model before building it. I spent over a year trying to be faster in LW, only to find that faster isn't what they wanted.
In short, I think it's very important to alter the perception out there about what a job really entails. If somebody aspiring to be a programmer knows that they need to pay attention to design and UI, then they'll be far more observant about those aspects during their education. If I had known how much learning to draw would help me with my 3D work, I would have done a lot more drawing exercises in high school.
"What If I stream a channel to an offshore site, can they then distribute it (basically an offshore co-location, um, without the co.) If I run a shoutcast server from my DSL line in the states, will they come and sue me?"
What they'd do is label you a pirate, and then get your DSL account removed. I think that's what happened to Film88.com, but if somebody has more insight into what'd happen I'm all ears.
I am curious what'd happen if you co-located a server with music on it ready to stream, and then paid for your bandwidth in advance. They may be able to send you to jail, but they can't shut down the server... at least that makes sense with the limited knowledge I have right now.
Thanks!
:)
And no, I missed it because I was a lot more specific than 'Linux Laptop Help'. I.e. I put in the specific problem I had.
Anyhoo, info appreciated.
"Does anyone have a clue why they did it?"
I'm curious too. The Linux community could use the feedback. If the problem is that it's too hard to support Linux users and maintain customer satisfaction, then Linux should be more evolved to make it easier.
If the problem is that Linux gurus are too expensive to keep on hand, coupled with too few people buying the laptops, then there's little to do about that other than have people provide unofficial support.
Imagine if Tom's Harware bought up new laptops, got Linux running on them, and documented what it took to fix some of the basic problems that came up.
A site like that 6 months ago (when I tried to install it on my laptop...) would have meant I'd be a Linux user today.
"If it stops being compatible, my next laptop won't be a ThinkPad. Too bad, because the machines are solid. "
I dunno if that's the attitude I'd have. The reason you buy a Laptop from IBM is their manufacturing compatibility and support. (support meaning they'll replace a defective component...)
If there's an icompatibility with Linux and one of these Laptops, then people should rush to fix it. The reason I'm saying this is that corps who buy these laptops aren't going to be worried about Linux until they really really need it. It'd be a lot easier for everybody if the information on how to make Linux work on an incompatible laptop were easy to find for the non-Linux initiated.
I'd have been a Linux user 6 months ago if I could have gotten it to work on my laptop. Unfortunately, I couldn't find what I needed to fix it, so it got Windows 2000 instead. It'll be a while before I have the free time to pursue that again.
I'm thinking of the Linux community as a whole, here. I can understand somebody saying "This laptop won't do me any good if it doesn't wrong what I need", hell I'd have the same attitude. I'm just thinking that if everybody says that, then this will always be a Microsoft world.
"And that includes 3" CDs of course, which were the first portable digital audio media, and still used in stuff like digital cameras today..."
:)
Just an FYI: At CompUSA I found some 2.5" x(roughly) Black CD-RW's. Yes, RW's. I bought them because I plan on getting a mini-CD MP3 player from ThinkGeek.com eventually, but in the mean time I've found them useful in carrying data around the office. For example, I needed to get a network driver to somebody so I just burned the disk and carried it over.
Did it make a difference that I used it instead of a full sized CD? Not really, no. But when I'm ferrying data between here and home (pedestrian), those little guys are much easier to carry than their big older brothers.
In any case, if you're interested in these CD RW's, they're at CompUSA. I paid $13 for 10 of them.
"Too many people are happy with their CDs right now..."
I respectfully disagree: There are lots of people buying solid-state MP3 players because of their size. I have a Rio that is smaller than a pack of cigs, and runs on one AA battery.
Media like this could make tiny MP3 players a very hot commodity. With CD's, 5.5" is a small as the player is going to get.
"Instead of fitting twice as much on a coin sized cd why not fit a lot more Gb on a regular sized CD? "
Some of us ache for something smaller. A CD Player, for example, can be a PITA to carry around in your pocket, particularly on a plane.
Also, one day I'd like to watch movies on my PocketPC. With a disk that small, they could make a palm sized movie player. There is value in that if you can record from your PVR to it.