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Canadian Government to Jam Radio Signals
An anonymous reader submits: "According to this article, the Canadian government has given the military and RCMP permission to jam radio signals during the G8 summit and the Pope's visit. I suppose that the stated reason would be to prevent terrorists from communicating with each other, but I have to wonder whether it's also being done to keep those pesky protesters from effectively organizing at the G8. And if this action manages to block wireless 911 calls, and someone dies because of that, who's going to be willing to step up to the plate and take the blame?"
Hmm interesting seeing as your more likely to die from a bear than a 911 call not being placed up in the kananaskis region. I dont see any point for the violent protestors to be out in ottawa during this (I know the non-violent ones will be here).
hmm....
how terrorists are the only ones who use cellphones and drug dealers are the only ones who use pages.
have to look to the future for these cases. we all know that technology will become more and more advanced, and evetually be so cheap and readily available that not much can stop it.
ing the right to the military and police to do this just for the possible, but unknown and unsubstantiated 'terroroist,' is a little paranoid to me. and, once the upper officials have this protection, won't ones below them as well?
every time you give some right to the government that the common people do not have, chaos of some sort screws sh1t up.
just an american "individual-rights-freak" opinion though.
Here are some details.
Jam this!
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
Anybody got a quarter?
Romana: "How did you know?" Doctor Who: "Ah, well, knowing is easy. Everyone does THAT ad nauseum. I just sort of hope"
So is this the same set up as in the UK where we get free health care under the NHS?
Of course the American method is so much better - all the health care you can afford!!! (that's sarcasm, right?)
"And if this action manages to block wireless 911 calls, and someone dies because of that, who's going to be willing to step up to the plate and take the blame?"
Our country lived without cell phones for 200 years; I think people will survive for another 12 days without them in that area. They are going to be in a populated area; landline phones will be nearby. People don't die from lack of cell phones.
Aint that the british NHS?
...then some other reason will be given. It doesn't take an Einstein to realise that elected governments wherever you are in the world will not or refuse to take responsibility for their actions whatever happens - they'll spin a web of deceipt and hope the trail leads elsewhere... hasn't anyone learned anything yet or are we all stupid?
Yeah...and maybe a bridge will fall on someone or maybe someone will be hit by lightning. Nice editorial post.
Anyways....about the link:
"It could be used, for example, if there was threat of a detonation of some type of a remote-controlled device. We could jam the frequencies to make sure nobody could send a signal to that bomb."
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if this were the situation, wouldn't jamming the signal potentially detonate the bomb?
Canada is becoming more and more like the U.S. in its willingness to shut up its people by any means necessary. Farewell free speech! We knew you well, but the government has decided the public airwaves are no place for the public to be speaking to one another. Adieu.
Jamming is achieved by making sure your signal is stronger than anyone elses', I hope the hypothetical detonation device doesn't simply look for a signal of a significant strength.
There will be more than "blocking 911" to worry about then.
Mmmmmmm
"It could be used, for example, if there was threat of a detonation of some type of a remote-controlled device. We could jam the frequencies to make sure nobody could send a signal to that bomb."
He did not know, however, how the jamming would affect cell phones or commercial radio transmissions
It specifies that "every reasonable effort shall be made to confine or restrict to the extent possible interference with or obstruction of a radiocommunication . . . to the smallest physical area, the fewest number of frequencies and the minimum duration required to accomplish the objectives of the interference or obstruction."
and most interesting
Jamming devices are also illegal in the United States, but there is a growing underground market for the devices, which can be bought for about $2,200. A survey of 2,000 people last year by Decima Research found about 50 per cent support for jammers in public places.
Imagine no more cell phones going off in movie theatres.
Besides, if it's a public place, there should be a public phone nearby. It's not like these people are on a highway in the middle of nowhere.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
Okay, if they're gonna be jamming the radio and cellphone signals of protesters and other such undesireables, won't they also be in effect jammng their *own* radio and cellphone signals as well, not to mention those attending the G8?
Punk-ass rioting niggaz will reap what they sow. I'm sick and tired of dem communazis behaving like sandniggers in my own backyard *w00t w00t*
What does that have to do with anything of anything?!?!?!?
Let's see...
1. If you jam radio frequencies, you deny yourself information you might otherwise be able to use to your advantage. Not real smart.
2. This does NOTHING to block visual signalling methods, or hard-line transmission methods that do not rely on radio frequency communication.
3. Remote control explosive devices that could be set off by the intended transmission could also be set off by the jamming, which is _also_ a transmission of considerable strength on multiple frequencies. Explosive crews use those "Turn off Transmitter next X miles" signs for a reason.
4. If you only block selective frequencies, you'll probably miss blocking transmissions in other alternate bands/frequencies you didn't expect "the forces of darkness" to use.
5. The methods they intend to use are akin to killing a fly with a sledgehammer.
And that's just off the top of my head!
Stephen King is dead???
As it turns out, our representatives wisely decided to opt for a capitalist system. The highest bidder (that is, the bidder with the strongest desire to speak), is able to purchase spectrum at a reasonable cost from the American people. Thus, the maximum possible return is achieved for the taxpayers, and the highest bidder has paid a fair price for the scarce resource they need. Capitalism works - period.
Unfortunately, Canadia is not a capitalist society. Canadians favor socialist approaches to health care, government, and (yes) RF spectrum allocation. This means that the rights to an area of spectrum belong to the government, not to the people (as in America). And the Canadian government is now flexing their muscle and exercising their right to take this valuable resource away from its citizens, who wish to communicate amongst themselves. This underscores a crucial point of socialism: its sole purpose is to maintain control over the populace, at any cost. The basic premise of capitalism flies in the face of this sort of manipulation, and that is why America will never become a police state, regardless of what Draconian laws the Bush administration manages to pass.
So, in summary: you get what you elect. If you vote for socialists, don't expect to get fair use out of the natural resources and public goods in your country. The lesson comes at a high cost for many Canadians (witness the breakdown of their health care system), but recognizing the problem is the first step in finding a solution and joining the rest of the Western world in becoming a capitalist country.
Bill
Habla troll?
Very likely
As for Stephen King, if he's dead, the NY Times, CNN, and www.stephenking.com don't know about it yet.
Never confuse volume with power.
I heard it on talk radio, he's gone. There were no more details. Truly an american icon, he will be missed :-(
When a police car runs over someone in a high speed chase, the person being chased is assigned the blame. The same logic will prevail in this situation.
Not that I agree with it -- it's just the answer to the question. (Not that I agree with the protestors either. I don't.)
RCMP == Royal Canadian Mounted Police
This from http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police is the Canadian national police service and an agency of the Ministry of the Solicitor General of Canada. The RCMP is unique in the world since it is a national, federal, provincial and municipal policing body. We provide a total federal policing service to all Canadians and policing services under contract to the three territories, eight provinces (except Ontario and Quebec), approximately 198 municipalities and, under 172 individual agreements, to 192 First Nations communities.
What if the jamming effectively ruins some terrorists plans, and prevents a disaster and saves hundreds of lives? But I guess that we'll never know for sure.
I am personally convinced that the various intelligence agencies prevent dozens of terrorist attacks per months, some of them probably of the 9/11 magnitude, without the public realizing simply because the government wants to keep those quiet (no need to shout wolf once the threat is defused).
okay okay...not to completely bash this and probably be the only one to realize this...but canada...of all places feels the need to protect the Pope during a visit??? umm isnt it if you are pure in your religion and faith in God you arent supposed to be afraid of dying or anything else because you are in the hand of God himself? Mother Theresa wasnt afraid of people or terrorists...
other than the religious aspect of it, why Canada of all places is afraid of terrorists? Who would be moronic enough to think attacking the Pope of all people would be a good idea? just a thought..when was the last time someone attacked Canada...no wait, when was the first time someone attacked Canada...????
"He added that cellphone jammers are illegal in Canada, but the department will soon release a policy on the devices."---if i roll my eyes any higher they'll leap out of my skull...
"It could be used, for example, if there was threat of a detonation of some type of a remote-controlled device. We could jam the frequencies to make sure nobody could send a signal to that bomb."--surely if i got word of a bomb i'd haul ass away from the area thats it is said to be in or near!
-Alicia
Mainly because there are some frequencies that they don't dare jam, and radios in those bands are expensive.
You can call up your favorite pilot supply store and buy a pair of handheld "AirNav" transceivers. These are two way VHF radios that operate in the aviation frequency bands... you can listen to ATC, you can listen to navigation aids, you can talk to ATC. And given how many different frequencies there are, you can always find one that isn't currently in use.
So the determined terrorist will be able to communicate... but at $450 each the protesters wouldn't.
There were no more details
... he was found dead in his Maine home this morning.
There were
All I know is that there are a hell of a lot more Brits coming to the US to get operations than Americans going to Great Britain to get operations.
The First Amendment to the US Constitution codifies the idea that the free flow of information empowers free people to do good things with that information. Pity that our neighbors to the north rejected the invitation to place themselves under its jurisdiction (and that our own government seems hell-bent on neutering the entire document).
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
I bet that they already have a scapegoat lined up to take the fall.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Canada is boring. Canadian People are boring. Who would like to listen boring conversations? Who cares?
As it turns out, our representatives wisely decided to opt for a reason: 4. If you jam radio frequencies, you deny yourself information you might otherwise be able to purchase spectrum at a reasonable cost from the American people. Thus, the maximum possible return is achieved for the scarce resource they need. Capitalism works - period.
Unfortunately, Canadia is not a capitalist system. The highest bidder (that is, the bidder with the strongest desire to speak), is able to purchase spectrum at a reasonable cost from the American people. Thus, the maximum possible return is achieved for the scarce resource they need.
Capitalism works - period. Unfortunately, Canadia is not a capitalist society. Canadians favor socialist approaches to health care, government, and (yes) RF spectrum be considered a free-for-all, in which the loudest (and therefore richest) participants can be heard? Should the government has decided the public airwaves are no place for the taxpayers, and the RCMP to use to your advantage.
Not real smart: 2. This does NOTHING to block wireless 911 calls, and someone dies because of that, who's going to be in an enclosed area. And they allow radio signals to move around inside the cage. The according to this article, the Canadian government has decided the public to be in an enclosed area. And they allow radio signals during the G8 summit and the highest bidder (that is, the bidder with the strongest desire to speak), is able to use jamming devices around Calgary and Kananaskis, Alta.
From June 17 to June 29 for the scarce resource!
--
Ask the Ya-Hoot Oracle Anything!
Government control of scarce resources always was and always will be a Bad Idea(tm). Strong property rights and gun ownership are necessary prerequisites to preventing tyranny. This has always been the case and always will be the case. Centralized control and planning means that the people are not Free.
Time and again, from Seattle to Genoa, the main goal of the protesters has been to deny the G8 meeting people their rights of free speech and assembly: the protesters cheer when they ""shut down" these world trade meetings.
Politics aside, as long as the protesters are trying to deny people basic rights, the protests should bt shut down.
If the protesters limited themselves to speaking without harassing, assaulting, or blocking speakers they do not like, none of these problems would happen.
Many doctors in the US will not take medicare patients from what I've read because the paper work to get any money out of the system is too complicated. In many instances the system won't pay up and the doctor has to pay for it. Fix it you say? Bullshit, that's what the Socialists have been telling us for years. "We can fix it this time, honest!" "It'll be different this time, we'll make it work this time!" Same old, same old. It does not work.
Why should a private hospital be forced to treat any loser that wants to be treated? There are free clinics for that. Why don't you start giving money to a local free clinic. There's one in my town that does a good job at treating those who cannot afford healthcare. Give money since you're presumably not licensed to be a nurse or doctor. That way the poor can actually get healthcare without having to wonder if next time the doctor is going to tell them to buzz off since medicare left him standing with the bill.
Medical care is the product of a doctor's labor. You have no right to tell a doctor what he or she can charge their clients and who they can accept or refuse. If you feel so strongly, go become a doctor and treat the poor at a margin barely enough to keep you off the street yourself.
Canada is indeed mostly capitalist. They are just less so than the United States are.
"Canadia is not a capitalist society. Canadians favor socialist approaches to health care, government"
While a lot of Canadian affairs are controlled by the ruling class (socialism), most of the economy still does remain in private handes (i.e. controlled by the people instead of the ruling class). It is actually this way in Sweden as well: most of the economy is controlled by the people instead of by the socialist state.
Also, down with the G8, bunch of murdering suits. How many babies have to die before the people wake up?
Perhaps even more dangerous. Doctors and other emergency workers need to be accesible by cellphone. (And any other person who has an "on call" type of job. Howdy IT folks ;-) )
A major reason you don't see jammers etc. in movie theatres for a bit is some people need their phones to work. Hopefully at somepoint we'll have smart phones that can be set to ring only for doctors etc. if desperately needed. If not, only allow phones to vibrate.
So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
...sure beats the old method of posting "No Terrorism" signs all over the place.
I think you're more likely to die from a cell-phone-induced tumor than a 911 call not being placed where you could easily use a pay phone..........
Aw, fuck it. Let's go bowling. - The Big Lebowski
"health care is a basic human right"
It is only if you want to get it yourself. As long as it doesn't mean forcing someone else to pay for your health care because you are too lazy to work to pay for it.
"How can you reserve it for only those wealthy enough to pay for insurance"
Insurance is not health care.
"Capitalism ignores the lower class."
Yes. that is the good thing about capitalism. It ignores any class, in fact it ignores "class" period. Fair for all.
Pesky protesters... terrorists... pretty much one in the same, if you ask me.
in a disaster? The phone service.
Vital communication would be jammed exactly when it was most needed by the very people who would need it most. Set off a bomb in a crowded mall NEAR the center of the action and the emergency services might not hear of it until somebody drove over and told them.
All of downtown New York was without land phone service for days, weeks and my old neighborhood (Battery Park City,) was affected for months after the attack on the WTC.
Cell phones were dead too because there was no power available to the repeaters but those were reestablished within hours or days with mobile power units and mobile repeaters driven in on trucks.
This is yet another example of bureaucratic thinking at its best: Cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I would want the badge number of the fool who thought that one up. And I would hold him/her and the judge who is allowing this stupidity so we can hold them responsible for any deaths due to the inability of the authorities to respond.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
... the detonation device is designed to go off once it CEASES to receive a heartbeat radio signal for a specified period of time????!!!!
D'OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
... law-abiding citizens trying to reach the police because their store is being torn down by angry protesters?
I smell a lawsuit waiting to happen...
superblog.org: all your favourite blogs on o
"The fact of the matter is that for as long as I've been alive, socialized medicine has worked"
A brand new Yugo will work too. Just for a little while. And not very well. The US, with the least government meddling in medicine, leads the world in medical advances.
"I'd much rather have a poor person cured of cancer than another missile in our arsenal."
They are all in the US arsenals. The US has subsidized Canada by in effect paying for its defense.
If you have a problem with the moderation system, please consider that moderators are not the only ones who read at -1. In fact, if you believe the moderation system serves to quash dissenting viewpoints, then why make it painful for people to bypass modrration entirely by browsing at -1?
If you're just trying to be puerile, so be it. But if you have a point, please share.
It may not be just, but it is fair, and that is more important.
"as long as you don't mind waiting for 3 days in the waiting room and being handled by a half-assed couldn't-care-less-about- being-here doctor!"
You mean just like in the USA, except it costs drastically more?
" law-abiding citizens trying to reach the police because their store is being torn down by angry protesters?"
Remember the part of the Seattle protests where these people were destroying small business in a re-enactment of what the Nazis did to Jews at one point? The mindset of the two groups is not that far apart.
Because, unlike linux, it is NOT GAY!
Feel the PHIST!
Netcraft hat jetzt bestätigt: *BSD stirbt
Dennoch schlug eine andere verkrüppelnde Bombe den belagerten *BSD Gemeinschaft, als vor kurzem IDC daß bestätigte *BSD erklärt kleiner als ein Bruch von 1 Prozent aller Bediener. Zu verstärken auf die Fersen des neuesten Netcraftsurvey kommen, das einfach daß angibt *BSD hat mehr verloren Marktanteil, diese Nachrichten Serves, was wir alle entlang gewußt haben. *BSD stürzt in komplettem disarray ein, wie weiter illustriert, indem er absolut letztes [ samag.com ] [ samag.com ] im neuen System Admin kompletten Netzwerkanschlußtest verläßt.
Sie brauchen nicht, ein Kreskin [ amdest.com ] zu sein zum der Zukunft *BSD vorauszusagen. Das Handschreiben ist auf der Wand: *BSD stellt eine kahle Zukunft gegenüber. Tatsächlich gibt es keine Zukunft an allen für *BSD weil *BSD stirbt. Sachen schauen nach *BSD sehr schlecht. Da viel von uns seien Sie bereits, bewußt *BSD fährt fort, Marktanteil zu verlieren. Rote Tinte fließt wie ein Fluß des Bluts. FreeBSD ist am meisten gefährdet von ihnen alle, nachdem esverloren 93% seiner Kernentwickler esverloren hatte. Lassen Sie uns zu den Tatsachen halten und die Zahlen betrachten. OpenBSD Führer Theo gibt an, daß es 7000 Benutzer OpenBSD gibt. Wieviele Benutzer von NetBSD gibt es? Lassen Sie uns sehen. Die Zahl von OpenBSD gegen NetBSD Pfosten auf USENET ist ungefähr im Verhältnis von 5 bis 1. Folglich gibt es ungefähr NetBSD Benutzer 7000/5 = 1400. BSD/OS Pfosten auf USENET sind über Hälfte der Ausgabe der NetBSD Pfosten. Folglich gibt es ungefähr 700 Benutzer BSD/ OS. Ein neuer Artikel setzte FreeBSD an ungefähr 80 Prozent des *BSD Marktes. Folglich gibt es 7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD Benutzer. Dieses ist mit der Zahl FreeBSD USENET-Pfosten gleichbleibend.
Wegen der Mühen des Walnuß- Nebenflusses, abysmal Verkäufe und so weiter, erlosch FreeBSD vom Geschäft und wurde durch BSDI, den ein anderes gestörtes OS jetzt BSDI ist auch tot, sein Corpse verkaufen Sie, der umgedreht wird an, dennoch ein anderes charnel Haus übernommen.
Alle Hauptübersichten zeigen daß *BSD ist ständig im Marktanteil gesunken. *BSD ist sehr krank und seine langen Bezeichnung Überleben Aussichten sind sehr schwach. Wenn *BSD soll an allen überleben, die er zu OS Liebhaberamateuren gehört. *BSD fährt fort zu verfallen. Nichts kurz eines Wunders konnte es an diesem Punkt in der Zeit speichern. Zu allen praktischen Zwecken *BSD ist tot.
*BSD stirbt.
There is more of a reason to fear terrorism in Canada than there was before. Starting in Europe, the anti-globalism movement has taken on anti-semitic aspects. Now it is part of the protests to demand the extermination of the Israelis and to denounce those evil Jews who run all the banks, and some of the groups that support anti-globalism are turning out to be the same ones that support a "global war against Jews and the U.S'".
It's been used a few times (not terribly appropriately IRC), most of which included comical images of the bomb squad desperately trying to remember their semaphore signals.
However, they do leave the public telephones running, so that's something.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"I haven't seen so many uninformed posts in so long, I was beginning to wonder if /. had changed. For fuck sakes people, we're on the same continent as the majority of you, you think you'd known one or two things about us, like the fact that the Canadian Military recently switch to one of the most sophisticated, IP based, combat radio systems, with many capabilites that cannot be used in Canada, due to government and CRTC regulations. This gives the military a chance to try out some of the new gear in a live situation.
One more person bitches about 911, and it's back to basic radio theory for you.....
.
-- I care not for your foolish signatures.
The protestors will be protesting right down the street from me.
"...if this action manages to block wireless 911 calls, and someone dies because of that, who's going to be willing to step up to the plate and take the blame?"
This is in the middle of the capital city of Canada. There will be plenty of landlines everywhere. There's a large task force of emergency personnel. I cannot see this as a problem.
How many AIDS drugs were invented by Japanese pharmcos?
good ol' fashioned land-line phones?
"All systems have their classes - only their names change."
First you have to get over the idea of "class". It really doesn't matter. The concept was invented by people who wanted to oppress those of perceived other "classes". It is like race. Matters only to bigots.
This is great shit. Some of the most insightful stuff on Slashdot.
Since the Pope's involved, They can say:
"We're jammin' in the name of the Lord!!!"
"When you're working two minimum wage jobs under a mountain of debt"
First, it sounds like they are overpaid. Minimum wage means a government wage which is typical set at something above the real, actual value of the work. Second, they should put away the credit card and stop building that mountain of debt.
King was found dead in his Maine houyse? Holy cow, that CANT be true!
In the US, it is the same political group that favors frivolous malpractice suits (which make medicine much more expensive) as favors government taking over health care.
The more conspiracy-minded claim that the former is an attempt to destroy medicine so the government will just have to come in and clean up the mess.
The U.S. is unfortunately the same country where some oaf who spilled hot coffee on her own lap got paid thousands of dollars from McDonalds because of it.
We get signal
Main screen turn on
It is you !
How are you gentlemen
All your frequency are belong to us
We lost signal
The lesson comes at a high cost for many Canadians (witness the breakdown of their health care system),
/. But I also recognize that health care, like food, clothing and shelter, is a basic human need whereas software is a luxury item. I think that difference in need versus luxury should have some bearing on a discussion as to the economic viability of solutions to a growing problem.
I am not totally familiar with the Canadian health care system. My understanding is that it's administered by the provinces, and that there has been a lot of discussion as of late of doctor shortages and so forth.
But recently someone on a local usenet newsgroup made this same claim you are making, and in the same note tried to imply that the US health care system is perfectly fine because of it's capitalist nature. (as opposed to the evil of socialism) So I was curious and started looking for some facts.
What I found is that life expectancy in the US is less than other G8 nations which have socialized health care(France, Germany, Canada, UK, Italy, Japan) with the exception of Russia. Furthermore the infant mortality rate is also higher in the US compared to the other G8 nations, again with the exception of Russia.
On top of that, the amount spent on health care in the US per capita is much greater... in the neighborhood of double. This despite(or maybe because of?) something like 40-60 million Americans lacking health insurance.
So I guess I'm puzzled. If Canada's system has broken down, what term do we use to describe the US system? A complete failure?
I'm a pretty big proponent for capitalism, as can be evidenced by my ridicule of the GPL proponents and the Microsoft antitrust trial on
If the best capitalism can do for healthcare is drive costs up without yielding any demonstrable benefits measured by statistical indicators perhaps we should be looking at alternatives?
I can see why they are worried. Ewoks are known to use cellphones.
Deconstruct the State
i love my freedoms as a Canadian, and i love my cell phone, and i fully support peoples rights to peacefull demonstration.
I live in Ottawa. during the g8 conference a group of protesters has vowed to disrupt life in the city, and refused to talk to police, or make statements to discourage violence, infact they have encouraged it. Business are boarding up, and citizens are scared.
I do not like when people come to my home and destroy it for there own political goals. I understand the reasons not to block trafic, however, anything that can be done to keep my home from being destroyed by these protestors MUST be done.
civil disobediance is onething (gandhi practiced it, and never once struck out at anyone) wantan distruction of property is another.
before you comment, to this article about how your liberties and freedoms are being taken away by the authorities, think about what you would want if your home town was suddenly faced with thousands of violent protestors.
joining the rest of the Western world in becoming a capitalist country.
What makes you think we are capitalist? In many ways our country is becoming Canada, and you know what, nobody seems to care. Our government has a wealth of socalist programs in force. You know that Huge new Farm bill? Very socalist. Social Security? Income Tax?
Before WW II we didn't need Income tax and we had a ok army ta boot. What changed? We decided as a country that we started to like big government. Its a shame really.
Yes, there is the problem of the "welfare brood sow" that shucks out more kids just to get more bucks from uncle sam. The "welfare system" encourages all sorts of bizarre behavior.
I dont see any point for the violent protestors to be out in ottawa during this.
Neither do I.
After all, it's not *my fault* that they wasted four years and $xx,000 pursuing Bachelor of Arts degrees in such top-flight useful fields as Women's Studies, English Literature and Anthropology. Of course they can't get good jobs! Of course they feel left behind by civilization! They couldn't take science degrees. How can they be expected to integrate by parts when they can't even remember to shower every day?
I mean, if I were them, I'd be pissed off too, but only at myself.
I think I'll go protest the protest, carrying a big sign: "Get a job, you unwashed hippy losers."
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
Ohhh, das war ein super Orgasmus.
"Furthermore the infant mortality rate is also higher in the US compared to the other G8 nations, again with the exception of Russia."
This is a false statement that keeps floating around. The stats being compared are apples and oranges. The U.S. happens to count high-risk babies such as preemies in its statistics. Makes the U.S. look worse. Countries like France exclude mortality from these high-risk groups before it even begins to count infant mortality. Makes for nice low numbers.
"If the best capitalism can do for healthcare is drive costs up without yielding any demonstrable benefits measured by statistical indicators perhaps we should be looking at alternatives?"
The costs are being driven up by frivolous lawsuis. There is the alternative: get rid of this problem. If you want another alternative, leave the U.S. and go to a country with socialized medicine. Don't spoil the system here.
"So I guess I'm puzzled. If Canada's system has broken down, what term do we use to describe the US system? A complete failure?"
No, it is a success. It serves the vast majority of the people very well.
" This despite(or maybe because of?) something like 40-60 million Americans lacking health insurance."
The health insurance number is irrelevant. Insurance is not care.
you mean all people are entitled to be forced to pay for inferior health care for all Canadian citizens.
"Deep pockets"? Sorry, you forgot that there are socialized medicine programs in the U.S. for the poor (medicaid, etc). However, these are to be just for the people who need it. not everyone.
Wow, who'd have thought. The Blotto box does exist and the British police have one.
""The US, with the least government meddling in medicine, leads the world in medical advances.Yet those advances only help those wealthly enough to pay for them.
In reality they help everyone throughout the system.
That is what the minimum wage is: a wage set by the government above the real value of the work. As a result of minimum wage increases, companies are forced to fire people in order to pay the wage increases of a few.
It may be insensitive, but it is true that if someone is being paid an artificially high wage above the real value of the work, they are overpaid.
Death? Give me liberty or....
check it out http://www.g6bpeoplessummit.org/
--------------------------------- Born Again Bourne Again Believer: New Life, GNU/Linux Be Free!
for use during G8. I know because the Loss Prevention Officer for the company I work for is ex-RCMP and CSIS (aren't all LP investigators?) and he has volunteered for G8. It also helps that his office is next to mine, so we converse all the time. So, I fail to see how the jamming is going to affect cell phones if the police themselves are using CDMA digital phones.
The conversation has drifted to the G8 more than once and the preparations for it. The level of prepardedness is obscene; State of the art technology is being used, 24 hour satellite surveillance, hidden listening devices in the woods, "Ninjas" camouflaged under brush around Kananaskis, a dedicated fibre connection between Calgary and the meeting site in Kananskis installed just for G8 and on and on.
The UK Govt already have the ability to cut off the general publics cell phone ability using the obscurely named feature of GSM ACCOLC 'Access Overload Control for cellular radio systems' - here are some links: http://www.doh.gov.uk/epcu/epcu/refdocs/accolcqa.p df, http://www.co-ordination.gov.uk/contingencies/dwd/ information.htm
Evil ZEN Scientist
"It could be used, for example, if there was threat of a detonation of some type of a remote-controlled device. We could jam the frequencies to make sure nobody could send a signal to that bomb."
Those oh-so-funny Canadians. Let's go over what it means to "jam" a signal. Quite simply, it is "stepping" on a radio signal of a certain frequency with a more powerful transmission, making it like trying to whisper to someone over a bullhorn. A remote-controlled bomb does not necessarily have to have a code in the transmission, the reciever could simply be expecting a rather strong signal on a certain frequency. Now if the RCMP and their nice powerful antennas start running up and down the radio spectrum trying to jam all kinds of frequencies, well...They could quite easily set such a bomb off themselves. That is ASSUMING that they are even allowed to jam frequencies outside of normal communications, which a bomb would most certainly not be tuned to. This argument of preventing a remote controlled bomb from exploding is completlely bogus. This is yet another example of a goverment overextending their power in the name of terrorists lurking around every corner. It would seem the terrorists have gotten what they wanted out of 9/11, to turn the West into a giant police state where the government can do whatever the hell they want, and pass it off as their efforts to "protect" us.
-R
And fuck your mother too.
You're a weak-ass socialist. You need the government to be your mommy and daddy.
"This is in the middle of the capital city of Canada."
LOL. Right, and Salem is the capital of the US. What the f*ck? The American school system doesn't even teach you what the Canadian capital is called? It's really quite unfair considering how I had to learn about you dumbass Americans at school.
P.S. Our capital is in Ontario, not Alberta. And it's called Ottawa, not Kananaskis.
The earlier post is correct.
The reason is that the trigger must be of an uncommon frequency so that when you arm a charge, someone doesn't hit a garage door opener and blow you sky high that second. If it carries on a common frequency, the key must be unique and so that the band that you are using doesn't kill you with any "punch through" or harmonics.
Or- if you are using a simple circuit reciever... you really need to set the arming mechanism to arm a predetermined time after activation, so that it doesn't get you as you are walking away.
I had a friend in the army. I am not a kook.
You should all be banned.
I am forced to assume you are a cop by your statements, if you aren't, my apologies, if you are--read on, this applies
--and until you as a cop will walk up to some politically connected fatcat and arrest them for malfeasance of office and for breaking BIG BIG LAWS and stop being CHICKEN, yes CHICKEN, no one will have any respect for you, either, and you'll keep seeing protesters. Face reality, you cops are mercenaries for the elite, hired guns, that's it mostly, don't fool yourself you work "for the people", because you certainly aren't fooling anyone else. Stop living in denial, you know full well the us versus them thing I'm talking about, how we are "#$%&^*ing civvies". the military is the same exact way for that matter.
Didja ever really really stop and think more than 10 seconds that maybe it's time to change sides? Remember yugoslavia when FINALLY the cops stopped supporting slobodan and finally bingoed to the fact that all the "protesters" had some legitimate and valid and very important points and just maybe slobodan was a jerk off dictator?
Why is it all over the planet, all back in history, the COPS and MILITARY are the LAST ones to STOP supporting dictatorial regimes? Ever wonder why bogus places like north korea still exist? Cops and military work for the elites. They do this in every nation.
Do you think the US and canada are just going to overnight change into dictatorships? NOPE, they do it gradually, step by step, and we are past the half way there point now, too, and the dictators get supported by the cops and military each and every one of those steps because THEY FOLLOW ANY ORDER GIVEN TO THEM.
Remember the nuhremberg trials? WHOOPS. "Just following orders" is not a legitimate defense, not eventually anyway. You and your brother cops really need to think on that some more. Learn from history or repeat it, you really only have two choices, there is no rational third choice.
I'm being honest, and not trolling, but it's getting time to make some rational decisons here.
How much longer are you cops going to keep supporting land grabs, gun grabs, speech grabs, every other right you can name grabs, excessive and confiscatory taxes, the creation of even larger and more controlling global monopolies in food and energy and now even water? How much longer will you help "enforce" little people getting screwed non stop, while all the "elite leaders" are crooked as skunks and all you cops KNOW IT, DANG IT YOU KNOW IT, and they keep getting away with being crooks WITH YOUR HELP?
I know some good cops. Want to know why I consider them good? BECAUSE THEY QUIT. They told me why, too, several of them. They have a conscious and could no longer support what they get ordered to do (screw the common joe average mostly)and to ignore what (and who) they get ordered to ignore (your bosses and the elites and fatcats).
Choose once, choose wisely. "Evil" only wins temporarily, it always loses in the end.
If Canadian officials are willfully disregarding the provisions of their own constitution, who are you to throw rocks? You[r supreme court] elected George W., thus creating the least constitutionally responsible executive branch in the past hundred years...
Just stop flying low for a few days and you will have less chances of getting into an accident. Anyhow you can live without a cellular for a few days. Which one do you prefer, to get your ass blown or suffer a little inconvenience for a few days?
-1 Not Funny
Just a little something for your noodle...
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/06/22/spai
I understand the ire of WTO protestors and people who feel similarly... I feel for them. But the world has changed a lot since Seattle. Especially in the matters of protest outside the Americas. Matter of fact, a LOT of protestors have been killed across the world since Seattle. Every time there seems to be a world anything anymore, there is activity of the Serious Bad Kind (TM). Just in the last few days, the ante has been upped for psychotic, killing activity. The psychos have really been rallying since the WTC attack.
I am pretty sure that these countermeasures are done to stop a little more than the drum circles and the occasional Starbucks window attack. The police are not as concerned about the dreadlock kids as many would think they are. Not after the mess in Spain.
If anyone is in Spain, please tell us about what is going on over their in your words... I think the
This is nothing more than petty retaliation for previous attempts to inform people on what goes on in such events.
During the last G8 summit in Genoa certain organizations used radio broadcasting to tell the public present in the city of the multiple abuses of power by authorities in Genoa and around the world.
The truth is not something that many in power want to get around. After Genoa, radio, albeit pirate radio, was also used in Doha, Qatar during the WTO ministerial conference. A Google search for "No New Round Radio" results in the archives of this pirate radio station.
Considering then that in the last two international events of this magnitude, radio played a large role in letting people express their opinions in a peaceful manner, then it is quite natural that the authorities are choosing to jam radio signals. They want to keep the oppresed masses ignorant!
I doubt they need this for the G8 summit. The jamming of cell phone frequencies seems a little overkill because:
(1) the G8 meeting is held in a park called Kananaskis. It's in the foothills and Canadian Rockies, located in the province of Alberta. Anyway, the place the summit is located (the Rocky Mountain Lodge) is fairly isolated. Cell phone coverage is good in the area (so says my wife who has been there recently) but I'm guessing it's only available in populated areas or along the major roads.
(2) The place is being secured mostly by the Canadian military, with the RCMP in town or along the roads. The military presence is huge (the soldiers are fully armed), their primary role is to secure the outlying areas and they have permission to use deadly force. The air space will be closely monitored (they have mobile radar stations up) and jets can be called up or will be patrolling the area (I think there's a no-fly-zone in effect).
While there is a possibility of terrorists, protestors are probably an equal target of cell phone jamming. Protesters (good & bad) use cell phones as a means of organizing groups of people.
Let's just hope the RCMP doesn't fuck up and, say, jam emergency frequencies or that used by commercial aviation.
it seems to me that people who would be attempting to attack the G8 convention, or the pope, wouldn't be terrorists, but 'freedom fighters'.
Well they can jam all the radio signals in Canada that they want, (would that interfere with people's home wireless internet routers?....) well anyway, the point is that people will communicate no matter how many restrictions you put in place. Cell phones are more likely to prevent an attack than to be the method used to organize one anyway!!! this is sheer Canadian Stupidity if you ask me. How much protection are they offering the protestors anyway!?!? there seems to be MORE people there than super-rich people (or leaders) at these summits anyway... oh well... I can't wait for the Canadian gov't to have this one come back and bite them where it hurts.
The least constitutionally responsible executive branch was probably FDR, well within your 100 years. He actually sought dominance over one of the other checks and balances by attempting to stack the supreme court, and nearly succeeded. But he was still a great president. He was as great as the republicans think reagan was.
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
I vote for extinction of the human species.
Kill'm all and let the cockroaches have the place.
If at first you don't feel good.... suffer like the rest of us.
I was at an emerency preparedness presentation in Edmonton today. Seems that the cell phone system during the Pine Lake tornado was crashed by a bunch of media reporters. I suspect they are the real target of this jamming.
During Pine Lake, "individuals" decided that they needed to use the 12 available Cell channels in the remote town to do Live reports back to the Big Cities... so they grabbed the cell frequencies and NEVER HUNG UP! These press people are not terribly popular when they hogged resources that ambulance and SAR people might also want to use!
Fortunately there are a lot of HAM operators in Alberta and they were able to provide radio relays to the SAR people and bypass the phone service.
-AD
This is the original 'mission statement' of Canada.
Where in this do you infer Canadians have rights if they infringe on the first 3 concepts?
-AD
Watches and other methods of keeping time have also been outlawed at this event, because the chance of a group of people synchronizing their watches and deciding to cause a disturbance at the same time is way too high.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
I was chatting with a bunch of HAM operators today in Edmonton. The agency that governs the allocation of the radio spectrum is:
** Industry Canada **
So much for the idea of not selling spectrum...
-AD
We lived without sanitary water supplies for one hundred years.
We lived without electricity for 100 years.
We lived without roads and cars for 100 years.
We lived without airplanes for 100 years.
And of course, we lived without stupid comments on what we lived without for a long long time.
Infuriate left and right
Thanks to the awful US system, you had the MRI to begin with.
I looked all over for the truth about these meetings. The last place to find the truth was places like Indymedia.org
"The truth is not something that many in power want to get around"
The X-files is off the air. The Gnomes of Zurich have crawled back into their holes. The Elders of Zion are too old, and the light has gone out on the Illumunati. Time to face a brave new world order.
This is funny. Since any potential terrorists know they can't use their cell phones, the cops won't be able to use their high tech electronic survelance and locating equipment!!! haha.
Actually, Kananakis is Bear country. There are lots of Grizzly bears. I suspect the bears will effect a rather good security blanket against any protesters in fact. So get this picture. The cops will be hampered because they can't use electronic location methods but the Bears will be in fine form because they can sniff 'em out! haha.
Another point is the cops are so paranoid now that the Calgary Unix Users Group CUUG had to move the regular monthly meeting away from the downtown library because apparently we geeks are a security risk.
Oh, and no telecomunication services are to be changed either... which means that even though Telus has sent rather nasty announcments to the effect that our xDSL services are to be cancelled or switched over as of the end of June - apparently they won't hook up new services. Alas, methinks the idiot factor is getting rather high.
If it keeps the protesters out, which means a peaceful meeting for once, go ahead.
if not(timex)
Are they being killed in self-defense, like the thug at Genoa who was shot by his would-be victim as he tried to brain the would-be victim with a pipe?
Or are the basically commiting suicide by crossing boundaries that say "don't trespass or something really bad will happen to you"?
.... for two reasons
1) They are making us fully aware of what is going on, there is no loss of privacy
2) They are not allowing communication and monitoring it. That would be an invasion of privacy.
I applaud the gov't for coming up with an alternate solution that doesn't infringe on peoples privacy.
The problem is that in the states doctors pay $$$$ to get their license while in Canada much of the training costs are paid by the government. My sister just became an MD and she is now 100G in debt - that's 10g Canadian per year. Students in the states pay at least that much per term. They've got big debts to pay off when they graduate and deserve to get pain accordingly. If my sister were to move to the states she could pay of her dept in a year where it would take an American trained doctor several years.
The current system isn't fair for either Americans or Canadians. Canadians foot the bill to train doctors that work in the states and American doctors have to compete with Canadians that don't have half of their debt load. It's actually good for the American public - bad for the doctors. Up hear in Canada we call it the "brain drain."
The two possible solutions are to have Canadians pay more for their education, costing the government less money which they can put back into paying higher wages - or to reduce the pay of American doctors and "make it all right" by providing more funding for their education / startup costs. I personally favor the first option as having a high cost of education simply limits good educations to those that can afford them. Ever wonder why all American doctors have rich parents? It is not because only the rich kids are intelligent.
From 1992 to 2000, when a wicked witch ran the U.S., Salem was indeed our nation's capital.
"P.S. Our capital is in Ontario, not Alberta. And it's called Ottawa, not Kananaskis."
Ontario is a suburb of Los Angeles. You guys are governing Canada from within Los Angeles? No wonder there is something funny going on.
I don't think we're in Kananaskis anymore.
"Damn straight! It worked when adolescent children slaved forteen hour days in the mills, it worked before employees were cottled with paid vacations and compensation for workplace injury, it worked when Chinese immigrants were laboured to death on the railways or in the mines."
Now the Chinese have to stay in China to work as slaves as you describe... under socialism. Funny that all that stuff you describe remains, if not even worse, in the most socialist countries (China, North Korea, Cuba), but not much in capitalist countries.
" Get rid of the nefarious socialist legislation that changed all this and purify our roots"
That wasn't socialist legislation. While it was regulation, it did not involve a greedy power grab in which the rulers annexed parts of the economy from the people.
"But keep the educational system just as it is so people continue to believe as you do."
Glad you did mention an example of American socialism: a government monopoly. "Public" education. We're trying to fix that, though.
Americans think they got all that freedom, even when the government is curtailing it.
What you describe is basically the U.S. having a better system competing for doctors.
So, the Canadian system would be the best in North America if you banned all competition. Mathematically, the only one is #1 always.
"The two possible solutions are to have Canadians pay more for their education"
How screwy. Watch how many Canadian doctors flee to the U.S. the instant you impose this massive "doctor tax" on their education.
Actually they do..although the summit is taking place out in Alberta, a lot of protesters, realizing that they can't get close (or those that just don 't want to go to Alberta) are going to try to "Take the Capital" here in Ottawa during the time of the summit. That means 90% of the people that are peaceful protesters will be forgotten about when the 10% that are anarchist idiots start rampaging in the streets, smashing windows and looting stores like they did last year during the G20 Summit that was held here. I tell ya, it was neat to watch masked punks running up one street below my office window and watch the phalanx of officers running up the perpendicular street to get them.
What's different from last time? Sept 11...
The RCMP is using the blocking technique on a VERY localized basis (like blocking cell phones in a moview theatre) to prevent REMOTE CONTROL detonation of explosives in Ottawa around government buildings and installations (including the US Embassy, which is three blocks form Parliament and 1 block from the Mint here in town). It has nothing to do with protesters communicating to organize. The protesters are already organized...enough to break off talks wioth the Ottawa Police anyway.
Man talk about a tempest in a teapot...the Mounties know that if cell phones are disabled, the protesters will do what they did in the 80's - use a pay phone (we still have them about every three blocks, you know)! This is solely to prevent groups like Al Queda from using large protests as a cover for terrorist activities...or a TARGET!
Man, some of you here should really do a little research before spouting off..
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
"Blah Blah Blah...Ask someone who is poor and/or of colour if your country is a police state.
All Americans are of color (no U in that word). We have no invisible ones. Some are ignorant, or stupid and paranoid and think we have a police state. A few have actually been abuse by cops, and think this too. But most people "of color" (no matter what the color) don't see Big Brother knocking on the door yet.
"It may be more prudent to lease the resources to the companies. If the resources are scarce, ownership should stay with everyone"
Then how do you advocate the government controlling ownership? When this happens, only the rulers have ownership.
"Capitalism may work if you are privileged to begin with"
No. Capitalism works if you work. Period. Socialism, on the other hand, is really skewed toward the privileged: it is the proven best way for those in power to get even more power. In the strongest socialist countries, the poor get massacred by the millions and labor unions are of course entirely banned.
"The US is hypocritical in that it demands "free trade" for its exports, yet is very quick to put up trade barriers when producers in other countries can provide goods & services at a lower cost. Another example of the US hypocricy are the farm subsidies"
A very valid criticism. What about the steel tariffs? Bush's biggest goof yet at the time: punishing Americans with a "tax" on steel because some foreign countries were better at producing steel.
" could also drag out the example of the post office. Without the government running or regulating the agency, many small/isolated communities would simply not be serviced if the post office were privatised. "
Not at all. Privitization would greatly improve the U.S. postal service, which has big problems due to being a government-forced monopoly. As for small communities, all the government has to do is demand that they be served as part of the service contract when a private company signs on.
It is nothing more than the ability for individuals to freely trade goods and services. It is worth going jihad over. The alternative is far worse; when someone else (typically the ruler/leader/monarch,poobah) makes these decisions, instead of the people involved.
"As an American citizen, I think we'd better start trying to figure out what works better than capitalism.
Go ahead. Please do. And try it. America's landscape is literally littered with the husks of failed ideological utopias. Maybe yours will work. But not if you have no idea what capitalism really is and spout very tired Marxist "capitalism is'rule by those with the most power'" claptrap. Bad as capitalism is, marxism is far worse. Better get informed about capitalism before you try to replace it.
"It might have been when I started reading about what happened in Chile when the Chicago Boys tried to impose capitalism by force (in the most raw, 'free-market' way possible)."
The Chilean myth? sorry, better do some historic research. Did not happen. Either you've been duped by Stalinists or are one yourself. You seem to talk of wanting something new and better than capitalism, but you drop hints of favoring something old and far worse.
"Individual choice isn't everything"
So said the dictator.
It's only "more dangerous" because doctors and emergency workers are more careless about what they can do because they've got technology that "unwires" them. How did doctors get by without cell phones and beepers before those things existed? If they were on call, they stayed in places where they could get phone calls or messages!
If movie theatres start using jamming technology, then doctors just won't go to movies when they're on call. (Or they will, and will be rightfully sued when something bad happens.) Since I'm not a doctor, and I hate when cell phones ring in movie theatres, I say big *##!#@#ing deal. If the movie theatres want to pay for some kind of smart-vibrate feature on cell phones, then they can pay for it. Can you say "emergency dependability surcharge" on your cellphone bill?
"This underscores a crucial point of socialism: its purpose is to maintain popular control over the means of production
No, that is capitalism, where control of the means of production is maintained by the people. In socialism, the government takes it over, and the government controls it instead. By people I mean the people themselves making decisions themselves. NOT an oppressive government or collective that supposedly represents the people but really might only represent a single opinion that a majority might have at one time (which is forced on the minority)
"The basic premise of capitalism, on the other hand, is that the resources necessary for individuals to be productive members of society can be taken from them by anti-social political and economic power systems
No. The premise of capitalism is that the resources should be retained by the people. Not taken by the government or other forced "Economic power systems"
"Both Canada and the USA are already well on the way to becoming police states, the difference being that the police in the USA are (to generalize grossly) indirectly controlled by US capital,
No. The U.S. police are controlled by local governments, not the "US capital" in Washington.
police are controlled by the government.
"Taxpayers (if they had had any say in the matter) most likely would have received the 'maximum possible return' by retaining some kind of control over the medium"
Wisely, taxpayers seem to prefer the government staying out of media, and letting the free market rule. That way, the taxpayers have the most say.
I design user interfaces for a free network management application,
After the IRA planted a bomb at Aintree Racecourse on the day of the Grand National (horse racing for non UK people), the government enacted a power it has under some law that I can't remember the name of.
Basically it shut off all domestic and business landlines and mobile phones in the Aintree area of Liverpool. The only landlines that worked in the area were payphones.
The emergency services were equipped with cellphones that were supposed to be exempt from the shutoff. Sadly there was a bit of a cockup so most of them didn't work. They had to resort to using radios, and not everyone had them. This crippled communications in what was an emergency situation.
Remember, these protesters are left-wing extremists. PETA is a part of this movement. Those bears are toast: not only are they guilty of wearing 100% animal furs, they also subsist on the flesh of dead animals.
Enough for PETA to paint their coats, or perhaps bomb the bears' laboratories if they had any.
You will have to come up with better examples. Nothing in the U.S. Constitution prohibits the president from having "too many" Supreme Court justices placed. (I didn't like what he tried to do in this instance, but hey it within bounds of his Constitutional power).
Yeah, he was great. As great as Reagan. Probably not more great.
If you would rather have us in loin cloths owning nothing so we don't hurt mother earth, I have two words for you - fuck yourself!
"never met a Microsoft zealot"
you could always use smoke signals...
I am unique, just like you, and you, and you...
We banned that a long time ago. Non-ignited pungent gaseous expulsions could perhaps be considered environmentally correct.
At Genoa and Qatar:
C"onsidering then that in the last two international events of this magnitude, radio played a large role in letting people express their opinions in a peaceful manner"
They are peaceful on the radio? Since the protesters were such violent savages at Genoa, it would be a big improvement if they were limited just to radio instead.
I for one support the Canadian government in tryin to keep protestors back. If they were allowed to run free they'd basically stand there all day spouting half-truths and philosophy and nobody would get anything done.
Actually they take out the landlines from the exchange end.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"In case you haven't noticed, payphones are nowhere near as common as they used to be. In a lot of cities, you have to go a couple of blocks (or more) just to find one (if you know where it is). Within three or four years, pay phones will be bordering on the endangered list...
Who will be willing to step up to the plate
and say this was a good idea, since no harm
came to anyone? Certainly not you, lefto pinko.
From the article..."RCMP spokesman Corporal Benoît Desjardins said jamming is an important part of the security measures for both events. "The RCMP must ensure the safety and security of those attending," he said yesterday. "It could be used, for example, if there was threat of a detonation of some type of a remote-controlled device. We could jam the frequencies to make sure nobody could send a signal to that bomb." He did not know, however, how the jamming would affect cell phones or commercial radio transmissions.
If they jam to prevent such a detonation, they may cause the very detonation they hoped to prevent. "he did not know, however," This is the real problem. The authorities arond the globe are running around like chickens with their heads cut off from the specter of terrorism. This is the very choas Bin Laden and his ilk want. Cooler heads need to prevail.
How ya like dat?
Go check your history books. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms isn't even a quarter of a century old. It was enacted in 1982. Originally, Trudeau and the federal government wished to unilaterally approve this legislation (i.e. without the consent of the provinces). However, negotiations with the provinces eventually occured and in 1982, with the consent of 9 provinces (minus Quebec), the Canada Act became law. Thus, we now had a document outlining our rights and freedoms - and we also had a pissed off province in Quebec.
DDT works at killing bugs on crops...
Suicide works at stopping pain...
Nuclear bombs work for mining...
2-stroke engines work for autos...
The funny thing is, just because something works doesn't make it noble and good.
"the G8 elite monopolist fascist control the mass media"
The G8 does not contain any fascist governments at this time. The G8 governments only control a few media outlets, and the countries themselves control some more. That is all.
"they control their various nations political structuere that insures only the controlled press gets gross mass coverage,"
While it is true that these nations control "their" own political structure (I do not find this outrageous), they have only partial control on what gets covered. Least of all in the U.S. where government involvement in media is the lowest out of all the countries.
"How about in the US, the last presidential public "debates". Only two private organizations, the democrat and republican parties were represented."
So what???? The two guys decided to debate, and they did not want others in. No WAY should anyone meddle in their basic "right to assemble".
"Look at how some info gets ignored, like last week, that [fictional] video documentary of the alledged POW massacres"
A lot of the fictional stuff never makes it on the "major networks" in the U.S. But realize that the major networks are just a literal handfull of voices among thousands in the U.S.
"It's definetly a form of restriction when huge news is left out of the publics copnsciousness on purpose"
Except that it is not done "on purpose". And you forget that there are many stories that are all the rage among the far-left. They get reported, but the public does not care, since the public is not far left. The stories sit there ignored, not due to censorship, but because they are made up or do not matter. You won't be able to name one single story that I as a consumer of american mass media do not know about.
"The government takes tax money from everyone, but they restrict the very avaialble commercial broadcast freqs to the old established companies."
Again, so what???? Fewer and fewer Americans rely on the broadcast companies. This problem is solving itself.
"but if someone starts a 2 watt low power broadcast effort in their community that puts out some truth"
It isn't the truth that is the problem (as if far left radio has any). It is the resultant jamming of other stations. But why should you complain? NPR and the major broadcast news networks are already left-wing, even if they aren't on your fringe.
" Free speech? Who's kidding whom?"
You are only kidding yourself.
"Try to post information on non standard health care that isn't AMA approved cutting and pill pushing-the government WILL bust you and throw you in jail"
I can get access to tons, megabytes, etc of quack medicine testimonials, revelations, and other documents very easily. There is a SLIGHT chance they will bust you, but there is a near 100% chance you will get away with promoting the quackspeak.
"When's the last time you heard any mainstream press do an expose on the true status of the federal reserve system and our alledged "money"?"
I've have heard many negative commentaries about the Fed in the U.S. Nothing is censored.
"Did you hear of that girl who turned her back on bush at some school graduation recently? Secret service arrested her. Did you hear of that young woman yelled at clinton a few years ago "you suck!". ditto, arrested."
Rude jerks, both the girl and the young woman. But on this one you have an excellent point.
"free speech?"
Yes, if they had chosen instead to publish their own anti-clinton or anti-bush 'zines. Nothing would have stopped that. Even when you point out a real example of restricted speech, it is only restricted in just one of many venues. In other words, if they had chosen to make their point a bunch of other ways, no problem.
"They have to have the G8 in a remote place because so many people-from all ends of the political spectrum-are so totally against globalism"
Totally wrong. The vast majority of people are for globalism. Why shouldn't they be for it? It gives the people more power over their own lives. The real reason they put it in a remote place is to avoid the anti-globalist fascists from trying to shut down their meeting. The anti-globalists are true fascists in every sense of the word. No surprise that Pat Buchanan and his fellow National Socialists march with them.
"It's a fallacy only the 'radical left" is against globalism and the IMF and the WTO and etc, people from all political directions are recognizing now how inherently dangerous globalism is"
People from all directions: all of them on the fringe. The vast majority favor globalism. You are having a revolution and no-one is coming to it.
"and how it's being pushed on people to just make the global elites even"
Pushed by elites? It is being pushed by the people. Every time everyone buys a better product that happens to be made in a foreign country. Every time a company outsources to a foreign worker that happens to do the work better.
It is a win-win-win situation.
which happens to also be noble and good.
"Any time people gather together for a "common good" is socialism"
No, socialism is when the government takes rights way from people while declaring that it is for the common good.
"Life insurance is a version of socialism. Health insurance is COMPLETELY socialism (or do all Americans forsake health insurance because it's "commie socialism"
Only if the government is involved. When it is private, it is a pure example of capitalism: individuals making their own decisions about their affairs and interacting with each other (which includes such cooperative entities as corporations, and insurance programs).
"and, unlike socialism, most of these plans (again, not M/M) are strictly voluntary where available"
Yes. This makes a contrast to the socialist system, in which you are forced in whether you like it or not. Someone else makes all the decisions for you.
Under capitalism, the control of the scarce resources is far less centralized than under socialism. Even if only 4 companies are involved, that is 3 companies more than under socialism.
Also, it is not a situation of control by a "capitalist class", but control by the people through cooperative decisions in the free market. Nothing oppressive about it at all.
In this case, the protesters are more like Milosovec, favoring a totalitarian dictatorship type of government. Not only are they violent, their ideology is rather evil.
(Never assume I am a cop, or you make an ass of you and me and the cop)
Most Americans are served very well by the health care system. That is why the electorate resists change. No reason not to make it better for those not served by it. Also no reason to destroy it for everyone with a plan that included liberal use of jail sentences as part of the plan (i.e.the Clinton proposal)
The point was that many people don't need insurance or want it. They pay for care when they need it. You don't need insurance to stay healthy.
And even months after that, I was not able to access spamcop through my ISP because a certain switch was down.
We all know that the reason they want to jam radios is because they want to keep protesters from organising and media from reporting and excercising free speech rights.
"For the same cost per capita of the canadian universal health care system, the american one only covers 40% of the people"
It is twice that. Much more than 80% of Americans have adecquate health care.
"The nice thing with a government run health-care system is that there is only 3% overhead, because there is no money wasted on a capitalistic bureaucracy involved to check if such procedure is covered or not
Instead it is wasted on an unaccountable socialist bureacracy that only seeks to enrich and enlarge itself, like all bureacracies do. Since it is protected by law, it can get away with anything. It is also interesting that the one part you mention first about "bad capitalism" is about checking whether the procedure is needed or not.
"and more importantly, there is no money wasted on dividends to shareholders."
That isn't a waste at all. It is just the investors getting a return on their investment. It is a good thing. Sure is better than the Canadian system, where the money is wasted on unnecessary wage increases of existing bureacrats and hiring of unnecessary bureacrats.
?Canada is becoming more and more like the U.S. in its willingness to shut up its people by any means necessary"
too bad you can't find examples of this other than the DMCA which is truly an embarassment to the nation.
Suicide bombers don't usually need to tell other people when they're gonna blow themselves up.
:)
All this will do is annoy law abiding citizens who want to use their own phones.
Anyone with "an agenda" is already making other plans to deal with the problem since it was so conveniantly announced in the press.
Typical Canadian government - goose-stepping all over Canadian rights. Somehow I know that Jean Poutine is behind all of it
It's a police-state in the making...
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Well Sonny, when I was a Carleton student 12 years ago we protested the Gulf War...we had more people come out for a longer period than any in the G20 and nobody tear-gassed us. We dropped "body bags" (green garbage bags) off a the old DND recruiting centre on Elgin and protested on the Hill with about 25 000 others when the bombs started to fall. We didn't trash a McDonalds and no-one wore masks. Remember it? Probably not since it was PEACEFUL and nothing happened.
So I think I can spout off all I want. I was trapped in my building (WEP at O'Connor and Queen) for the entire afternoon because the police had the streets shut down chasing those "7" anachist idiots. I couldn't leave to go home, go to a client site or even go to Tim Hortons on Sparks for a coffee.
These are the same kinds of idiots who tried to hijack us back in '91. They don't care about "globalization" or "world peace" or "Kyoto"...they're Anarchists. In '91 they tried to call themselves the "Karl Marx Bicycle Club" or the "International Socialists" (sound familiar?). They do this to create Anarchy (hence the name). When a couple of these "protesters" tried to physically attack a lone guy protesting US, myself and two others fought them off and protected this guy form the other anarchist idiots (I believe our defence of someone whose opinion we did not agree with made it to Newsworld that day, I f you car to go to Carleton Journalism School and check). I guess we believed in democratic rights...
I was about 1/2 way up the WEP and there were more than 7...I counted. And as I remember it, there were way more than 7 arrests that day. Come to think of it, most of the guys/girls I saw running down Bank Street were wearing Masks, Gas Masks and scarves way before the police lobbed the gas. Did it ever occurr to you that if those "7" idiots had not violated the Criminal Code of Canada during the protest, then the cops may not have lobbed the tear gas?
You want to protest your cause? Go for it! Not only have I done it, I see it almost every day on the Hill from my office window. Civil Disobedience? Excellent. Chain yourself to a fence, lay in front of a buldozer, go limp when the cops arrest you or anything else non-violent. But when thugs start smashing the windows out of a business, throwing rocks, bottles and bricks from construction sites at the police, charging fences and barracades then your "protest" has turned into a riot because it uses violent tactics.
If you dish it out, expect to take it.
BTW. I don't think the phalanx of police acted very well during the protests last year either, but niehter did the protesters. If there were only "7" holigans in 4000 causing the problems at the MacDonalds as you say, why were they arrested by the police and not subdued by the 30 or 40 protesters who stood around and watched them (I watch CJOH too, you know)? I guess not everyone is interested in peaceful protest.
And how come the "Take the Capital" committee has outright refused to say they won't use violence or meet with the police to reasure everone involed that it will be non-violent?
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
cancel the summit and hold it via wireless video conferencing
We're Canada.. routinely, public figures who are disgraced step down here (except the Prime Minister, the cute little Energizer Bunny he is). There's honour attached to most positions, not just spin and no-holds-barred political mongering.
Although, I fear that like locks on a door, jamming frequencies will only stop the honest people from communicating.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Godwin was a Nazi buddy. You can observe some arbitrary and meaningless rule deliberately designed to limit discussion and reduce the frame of discourse; the rest of us will continue to debate as we see fit.
Yeah--this from a guy who's username is "propstoalldeadhomiez." Whatever.
Maybe instead of trolling, you should say a prayer for him and his family.
Feel free to shove your self-rightousness up your ass. Thank you. Troll.
Went hiking today in the area where the G8 will be held. The area is already closed off. The particluar mountain we went to was (just) outside the get-your-ass-arrested zone, but nevertheless we had to sign in and show id, and were cautioned not to get too close to the zone. There are black helicopters flying around (even over the city), often in groups of 3 in close formation. I don't even want to know what will happen during the actual summit. I'll also probably call in sick Thurs/Friday so I don't have to dodge protesters and pepper spray on my way to/from work.
I doubt the Pope's visit will get as much security, after all having 8 heads of the most powerful states in one convinient location must make for an awfully tempting target for anyone with an axe to grind.
"Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
A Canadian citizen writing here.
Ha ha ha jam cellphones in Canada? Well when mine works I'm happy, there needs to be a zillion more cell towers and make them digital please. I'd be surprised if you could even use a cellphone in Kananaskis!
BTW wouldn't a company that makes cell phones be considered one of the globilization monsters or big corporation from hell? So why would the protestors use or buy one? Oh wait, they buy cigarettes so there goes that theory...it seems that whoever or whatever is evil is selective. Like rock stars who tell everyone what to do while they get rich and later change their mind that selling out is OK.
I wonder who posted that story? Some hippie freak/'activist'? An anarchist? Surprised they even know about Slashdot.
Marijuana makes you paranoid doesn't it?
There's nothing like a good rant, hunh?
Lean too far left or too far right and you'll fall over, the center is the best
Canada is suppose to be a free and just society for all, where the minority is protected from the majority
This is a good one.
Dude, welcome to Canada, EVEN IF YOU HAVE A CELL PHONE you'll still DIE if you were due to die simply because the healthcare system in Canada is going down the drain. I am Canadian, this isn't a troll, it's a well known fact here.
Just 2 days ago in Quebec there was yet another story about how a guy that had a stroke died because one of the emergency that was 2 blocks from his house was closed and he needed to be transfered 50 miles further to get assistance, and he died during the trip. You guys in united states get "everyday news" about Israel and Terrorists" here we get the struggle between the prime minister and his ex-minister of finance goign for a powertrip, AND "how our healthcare system sucked today (tm)".
So even if you'd get your Cell phone, I'll still go with the previous comment saying that either cell or toll phone, if you are in a critical state, heh, you're toated.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
The RCMP may be more interested in blocking activist microradio broadcasts, and possibly community radio stations providing a forum for activists, than "stopping potential terrorists".
I guess we always knew Canada was ripe with Luddites. What's next, shutting down the power grid?
God forbid they let a newspaper or TV station run before the government has had a chance to screen everything. People just can't be trusted with freedom, you know.
Now if we could just trick a few more yankees with our bogus look-alike currency!
Someone modded that post troll?
It's interesting how a certain relativist crowd tends to incorrectly mod down posts they disagree with politically. Read the mod FAQ folks. Troll has a definition, and it's not just stuff that is contrary to your sociopolitical bent.
*scoove*
It may be that the only purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.
Anyone following frequency management would be dismayed at the idiotic belief that local authorities can "jam all radiofrequencies."
To do so would not only be technically absurd (about the only practical and cost effective way to do this would be to create a nice EMP pulse over the preferred Canadian city through a few kilotons of nuclear energy) but it neglects the fundamentals of how frequencies work; e.g. some go a little bit further than others.
Will Canada jam HF worldwide for these events? What about microwave signals that can easily be constructed in a narrow path between the bad guys and their target? Overcoming high power microwave narrowband will require unrealistic (see EMP pulse above) energies. Citizens expire before all RF is stopped.
Why not follow in Canada's excellent gun regulation footsteps? Just ban terrorism and crime and all will be fine.
I am personally convinced that the various intelligence agencies prevent dozens of terrorist attacks per months, some of them probably of the 9/11 magnitude, without the public realizing simply because the government wants to keep those quiet (no need to shout wolf once the threat is defused).
If so then why have they been shouting wolf over and over again with the least amount of information? If they prevented so much as a bicycle accident they would be shouting it on every network in order to distract us from the bad press they've been receiving lately. The fact that they warn us to stay away from bridges that nothing happens to and they shout triumphantly that they have a "dirty bomber" in custody (as someone else said it well, this guy couldn't even hold a job at McDonald's). What crap.
"The problem is having a better system next door?"
No, the problem is having a more corrupt system next door, where the doctors win and the people lose.
Companies like Clear Channel have been jamming most of 88-108MHz for years now. Who really wants to hear Britney Spears?
MONITOR THE DAMN CEL PHONES.
That way you can KNOW exactly what the bad guys are saying to each other and go find them. Or get real advanced and triangulate their signal. Don't tell me if you have triads of back helicopters flying patrol over 100sq/km or so you can't afford 30 guys in a couple trailers with bugging gear. Legally, I think citezens would understand making an exception of monitoring laws/etc. in this case. It's not like here in the US where they would make a law in advance to be allowed to monitor the whole country all the time and "any attempt to circcumvent such protections..." AH sorry where was I? Oh yes, there is an understandable need for this measure. Any solution that causes more problems than remedies is nothing short of a Microsoft hack.
If I was in the area of G8 and I needed my cel phone for an emergency (such as someone got hurt, or maybe if I WANTED TO REPORT TERRORIST ACTIVITIES), and I was unable to use it due to this security solution's bug^H^H^Hfeature, I would hire a lawer and sue the everlasting bejesus out of whoever I could possibly hold responsible.
Including the states/countries whatever of the leaders who decided to meet in this area (even if I would lose).
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
GNU C/C++ IS BETTER BECAUSE IT IS GPL AND SI FOR LINUX!1!1111
... some job u faggots!
Linux si for 400lb hippies who's job is to put teh numbers on teh remotes contralrs
I somehow don't believe that terrorists are really going to be stopped just because they can't call mom on the day. Do you really need to call or calibarate to explode a bomb made months beforehand and is strapped to your body?!
The communist rethoric isn't about quicking those "pesky foreigner" [sic] out of the country. The right wing rethroic such as Haider on the other hand is proponent of such discourse.
As for punishing the action (like you say punishing communist because of what Stalin did) then let us start punishing the christianty as a whole. After all what they did during crusadfe and inquisition... Might be construed as atleast as horrible. Morality : don't try to interdict people on the action of their forefather, but interdict them on their current action.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Most of the posts so far seem to ignore the fact that this is being held in Kananaskis, which is a provincial park, i.e. wilderness. This location was specifically chosen because of its isolation. I can't imagine that there will be many people affected by this aside from those participating in the summit in some fashion (including protesters).
--
"Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." - Homer Simpson [1F10]
All the intelligence agency of the world would probably quickly report the terrorist attack they stopped to stop people cirtizing them they failed in the case of 9/11 and to get more funding to hunt the bad guys.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Ok, please take it easy a little bit. I work for World Youth Day (the Papal visit) and I can tell you that there are several thousand radios in use by event staff as well as 5 temporary cell phone towers (all major Canadian providers represented) at just one of our major sites. Additionally Industry Canada (the body who polices the airwaves in Canada) will be on site monitoring the spectrum to ensure that everyone gets along RF-wise.
/. people over-reacting.
Before jumping to conclusions just think about the importance radio plays in a large event. I think there would have to be some very extreme circumstances before any sort of jamming would take place. To me it seems like a slow day in the news and
...can mean only one thing.
Invasion.
This is slightly off topic, but well within this thread of conversation.
This is a common misconception many people hold about Section One of the Charter, namely that are rights can be sacrificed to promote a governmental agenda.
The Supreme Court has ruled that Section One limits attempts by government to create laws that do not promote or perpetuate a free and democratic society. If you read any of the Supreme Court decisions available on line, you will see Section One is usually the most quoted section of the Charter. This section has made it difficult to impossible for governments to pass laws that violate our rights as the onus is on the government to prove that the law in question:
- Is proportional to the wrong it is trying to alleviate
- Is the lease instrusive or least substantially infringing to the Charter
These are very high standards and the Court takes them extremely seriously.
Hey, your patriotic message on how much more free and successful our radio is sounds really sweet, especially to me, who has been trying to get a license for my low power radio station for over 5 years, but cannot get one, because the corporate radio lobbyists have shut down, at the CONGRESSIONAL LEVEL, all attempts the FCC has made to create a low power radio service.
The difference between the radio in Canada and the radio in America is minute. Here, the government forces control of the airwaves, just like they do in Canada. Instead, they do it in the companies' name. And if you think the top-10 money grubber radio stations are giving me a good, cultured return on MY investment, then you're nuts.
lacrosse is actually the national sport of canada..
i wonder if they are willing to jam all canadian lacrosse games, to prevent terrorism in canada.. because, most middle-eastern terrorists are avid lacrosse players and fans.. (a little known fact.)
i think that if they cut small holes in the net, that this would be a very effective way to disrupt terrorist play.. and if a few spectators are hurt from the ball, so be it.. it has stopped the cross-checking, fast-passing play that the terrorists love..
but, then again, they could cut large holes in the goal nets.. and this would prevent any major scoring that the terrorists could attempt..
wow, had we only known..
had our intelligence community gathered and properly interpreted the information on canadian lacrosse, and the angry band of terrorist players.. serious scoring could have been prevented..
stop lacrosse, and you stop terrorism..
i hate microsoft.
Go and actually read the article. This is partly PR stunt, and partly law enforcement just covering their collective asses. They have no idea what they'll actually use jamming for, they're just saber rattling.
In case you weren't aware, most countries don't actually give law enforcement blanket dispensation from prosecution. Police break the law every day: they speed, they break and enter, they inflict violence, they kill people. No country that I know of recognises in law the concept of a "license to kill". The point is that they aren't prosecuted for doing this, because it's not in the public interest.
However, when their activities effect enough people, it's in everyone's best interest to document what's considered reasonable behaviour, partly so that law enforcement know how far they can go before being prosecuted. Stop and search powers are the most obvious, as they (almost by definition) target people who are mostly innocent. In this case, this is just the initial step in the process. They're trying to ensure that they won't be prosecuted for jamming RF the first time they do it. That's why this is limited to two specific occasions. However, if they do cause public inconvenience (or, hopefully, if they receive too many claims for compensation and get bogged down in individual lawsuits), they'll back off and forget the whole thing.
So, sure, this is vile in principle, but in practice it'll likely be a one off that will vanish into the footnotes of history.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Getting "democracy" involved in personal decisions like this means that the electorate gets to force it on everyone. Far better to leave the choice to the people themselves.
"the only Americans who "choose" not to have health insurance are the very poor who can't afford it. What a great choice."
The very poor are eligible for medicaid. If they "choose" not to get this handout, that is their stupidity.
"And if you think the top-10 money grubber radio stations are giving me a good, cultured return on MY investment, then you're nuts. "
Nuts? Mo, just informed. Those companies give the people what they want. When the government gets involved, you get NPR: public-funded radio that hardly any of the public likes.
"...Israel has been a case study..."
Canada is not Israel, and does not have a suicide bomber problem. Protecting the Pope for a few days is not the same as taking away freedom from everyone.
as much as I dislike what they are doing here.. you have to remember something. And if you can't see this... go travel a bit.
There is no such thing as absolute freedom. There HAVE to be rules.
The playground those rules work in is an ever-changing landscape.
No law covers all cases.
The point is.. if doing this briefly during something requiring very high security helps them, that's not too big a deal, as long as the order to do it is only for this event.
No, I'm not being complacent. Yes, I know that ' rights are eroded slowly'. But just because seomthing that wasn't done before is done now doesn't mean that's happening.
European nations, and Canada, tend to be more apt to do something as a short-term solution but not use it again and again in order to meet a goal. The US tends to do something once, then do it forever.
Remember, the law is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.
"It could be used, for example, if there was threat of a detonation of some type of a remote-controlled device. We could jam the frequencies to make sure nobody could send a signal to that bomb."
OMG, that is patently the stupidist comment I've ever seen. Lets just hope the grunts have more of a clue...
since when do people call 911 at protests? or are these 911 calls from people who have no direct connection to the summit? like bystanders, shopowners etc..
let's ask this question, how often do we get 911 calls from those places? i wouldnt expect it to be that high or for anything serious. so who cares really. people die every day why get all antsy about some idiot that locked up their head in a freezer. pfft. i mean are people so ignorant and stupid in general to think that some admin type actively set out to kill people by jamming 911 calls? is that how society works? the instant something happens it is spun to look worse than it really is? hrm. then we are indeed all products of the system, a system we created and perpetually feed with our stupidity.
dont radio jammers work both ways? the rcmp wont be able to use comms either. or do they have special anti-radio jammer tech as well? if that is the case, how long do you think before some activist hacker type comes up with the same tech? then it will be only deployment and strength of the signal jammers that will matter. bah. this is a silly article.
John Adams said Anyone who wants to give up freedom for security deserves neither freedom, nor security. Our freedom is our security.
Boy, if that isn't being a little dramatic. Reread the original article, you'll find that even though the jammers are being permitted, they're to operate with at minimal time over minimal range over minimal bandwidth. They're not going to be on the entire duration of the G8 conference or of the Pope's visit. Your reaction is a lot like assuming that because the RCMP are permitted to use horses that someone is going to slip in horse manure & sue the Canadian federal government about it.
Allegedly real newspaper headline from 1998:
Man Struck by Lightning Faces Battery Charge
These are people that support policies that keep the world poor, and slow the adoption of all kinds of technology worldwide. Hell, some of them actually advocate returning the entire world's populace to subsistence farming.
You'd think jamming these people's radios would be doing them a favor, introducing some much-needed logical consistency to their "arguments"!
ROFLMAO,
I fully expected some simpleminded modarator to mod that post down.
Get it right! That was a pure and simple flame attached to a flamebait post, tho' I shouldn't expect the politically correct crowd to understand a nuance like that. Not something that told the cold hard unvarnished truth about modern liberalism's value system.
Free Speach for all who agree with you, isn't that the essance of political correctness?
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est
Hi. I happen to be a soldier in the Israeli army (disclaimer: I speak only for myself - not for the IDF), and I very strongly must disagree with you. Something not widely known is that for every attack that succeeds, such as the horrible atrocity a few days ago (19/6/02) in which a suicide bomber borded a city bus and mudered 19 people, the Israeli security services succeed in directly preventing anywhere between 20-40 similar attacks. And more soldiers, more guns, more walls, and more surveillance does not always equal less freedom, less liberty. The Israeli army is a peoples army, not a semi-mercinary professional army. The guy on the corner with the body armor and M-16 is probably your best friend's 2nd cousin. It's a small country, and everyone serves in the army and security services, so you've always got new blood circulating into the system, keeping it fresh and relatively honest. People here don't feel oppressed by the army, because they know it's their army.
Not to say everythings perfect, it's not. But for the most part, we have all the guns, soldiers, surveillance, etc... , which is highly effective in preventing terrorist attacks, and we have both freedom and liberty.
Another simpleminded member of the PC crowd shows his cluelessness while modarating based on political content.
That post was OFFTOPIC exposure of the shallow joke called modern Liberalism's lack of credibility in the area of freedom of speach.
Thanx for proving my point by using your Mod points as a coward's way of avoiding debating the subject.
Freedom of Speach ONLY for those who agree with you, isn't that the essance of political correctness?
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est
The DMCA is very much a first amendment issue. That's part of the Constitution.
I was one of the protesters in this particular protest. The reason was largely that in Canada, there is nothing resembling a national opposition party, and probably won't be for the next 5 years.
I understand that it caused a good deal of inconvenience, as we intended. But... I'm a geek, and I value far, far more the fact that people are up in arms and actually talking about issues that haven't ever been discussed publicly before. I'm inconvenienced too, all the time, by teacher strikes and TTC strikes, corrupt politicians (we have them) and under motivated bureaucrat -- The damage that was caused, will always be less than what you see on TV because violence sells, it'll always be more interesting than my take on Bretton Woods. In the protest here, there was littering (in Ottawa this is nothing new) and more graffiti than usual (though much of it was chalk) and a few windows broken -- always belonging to organizations (like McDonalds) that could swallow the loss in a heartbeat.
I don't want to ramble, but the point is that if you belive what many of us do -- that corporate behaviour is actually killing people, than I would sooner condemn them for staying at home when they could make the slightest difference. If you disagree with the reasons they are acting then, by all means, lets argue, let's talk. But we don't, rather we hadn't. There are people (in this thread) who claim that violence never solves anything. First off, if vandalism is violent, most crimes are, that's a word I like to reserve for times when people are hurt. But secondly, we can't always appease. There will always be people willing to take things by force who will need to be repelled by force. We let Hitler walk all over us, then (at tremendous cost) pushed him back to end in triumphant cries of "never again." Then we ignored Rwanda, and it happened again.
We aren't claiming to have a perfect solution, but we have and will continue to push for an imperfect discussion.
My list of multiplayer
First off, no one seems to know or care much about a) the ariticle in question, or b) jamming methods. /perhaps/, the move by the RCMP has /something/ to do with 9-11, and the fact that there are hundreds of people out there willing to sacrifice themselves to take out tens of thousands of innocents.
The article pointed out that the RCMP are not allowed to block either cell phones or commerical radio broadcasts. (More likely to get complaints from interrupting NPR than interrupting the notoriously unreliable cell-phone network.)
As for responsiblility, how about the responsiblility the organizers of past protests should assume for forcing these measures onto the police. If, to maintain some kind of control over the situation, the RCMP and others need to block radio, tv, cell, or other freqs, all power to them. If someone dies because of that, the responsiblity falls on the anarchic fools who seek to bring down the very institutions that give them their voice.
Look at Seattle, look at Genoa, and Switzerland before that. Shutting down business, closing roads, vandalism, fires, riots. THESE things are far more of a danger to the regular people than interrupted ham or family band communications.
I have heard no attempt to apologize to the bystanders in these useless confrontations. So I seriously doubt there is anyone sensible, or responsible enough among the 'valiant', 'couragous' (more accurately, vagrant) protesters to assume responsibility.
I also find it cute, that this indignation stems from the overblown egos of the whiner groups. Perhaps, just
Will you compainers out there please step back and think about this more clearly?
#-#
Ad Astra Per Aspera
A rough road leads to the stars
It would be foolish for the Canadien government to try to jam all frequencies, since (as the other posters mentioned) they would be hurting themselves as well. Also, unless things have changed since I was in the military, they do not have the capability to jam all frequenices, even if they wanted to. It simply takes too much power to jam all frequencies at once - you have to pick your target frequencies carefully.
My best guess is the authorities got a report (possibly from a lying prisoner) that a specific frequency, telecommunications channel, or navigational beacon was going to used, and they now have permission to have some soldier sitting with his/her finger on button waiting to jam one small slice of the electomagnetic spectrum.
However, even this scenario has some risks - military jammers are not usually used near major metropolitan areas, and all jammers also spill energy onto adjacent sidebands.
1. We are right
2. You are wrong
3. In case of confusion, go to step 1.
Since you so clearly agree that someone can decide what is more important for someone else, please understand that my need to get to the match in time is far more important than your boring, pointless little protest. So me doing 60 straight into and through the crowd, killing lots of stupid people is going to be perfectly reasonable. It really pisses me off when they people are so petty. This isn't a protest, its about real things, like 'soccer' (and to take a more straight face, the only person ever who didn't deserve a punch in the face for calling football that is Jon Hare) matches.
"And these protests have meant something -- for one, it's meant that the leaders of the 8 most important countries are having a clandestine meeting in the wilderness."
Sure. By that logic, Al-Qaieda's cause HAS to mean something, or Bush wouldn't spend money and lives hunting them down.
Either you are against protest altogether, or you have to accept that someone will crash a planeload of passengers into your office, apparently.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Subject line says it all.
Software is not supposed to be about how to work around a useability issue. - Ken Barber
I'm in a bit of an activist mood this morning, so let me rhetorically ask a question. Is protesting, and peaceful resistence in general doomed? (let's take protesting to mean the legal, peaceful acts allowed by the constitution, not setting cars on fire)
Peaceful resistence is predicated on the notion that by evoking a brutal backlash on the non-voilent, the population at large will be called to attention. This seemed to work for example, when the British were cracking skulls open with big brass-tipped staves. But, through the wonders of technology, *peaceful protest* might now be threated. We have new inventions in the hands of the police, military, etc., which can stop a protest *without* violence: guns that shoot rubbering gooey stuff, guns that remotely electrically stun/disable people, technology with can direct sound, and make people nautious and throw up on command, or can specifically target and cancel sound. Yeah, it might sound callous because now the police won't really be hurting people or running them over with trucks ("oops") and shooting them and stuff. But it also means that protesting will be useless. You can't get your opinions heard because you will be silenced, stunned, and disabled remotely and effortlessly.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
As soon as a Canadian citizen has lived abroad for 2 years, all of his rights are taken away; only the passport remains [1]; no more voting rights, social security coverage or anything else left.
Canada is also a country that sees fit to consider over half of East Europe as potentialy dangerous, refusing its citizens entry into Canada, even when it's the case of folk musicians and dancers supposed to accompany the Estonian PM for a diplomatic visit in Canada. In retaliation, those East European countries make it excessively complicated and costly for Canadians to visit. Meanwhile, Americans and EU citizens can pretty much go anywhere they want without a visa.
Whoever thinks Canada has ever been a democratic country is seriously brain-dead. With its "first past the poll" electoral system and campain financing laws that purposely cap the maximum amount non-traditional parties can spend on advertising, Canada has always guaranteed that traditional parties remain in power, in alternance, while preventing minority voices to even as much as get heard, let alone ever getting any seat at the Parliament in Ottawa.
Taking the above facts into consideration, I consider myself a slave of the Canadian government, being forced to retain its annoying citizenship, which causes me more troubles than I can bear and yet gives me no benefit whatsoever, while simultaneously being prevented from acquiring citizenship by an increasingly foreigner-hostile European Union. Unfortunately for Canada, Russia is an easy place to sell a Canadian passport that is still valid and an even easier place to get lost. Fortunately for me, I speak Russian and live less than an hour from the border of the St-Petersburg district. [2] You do the math.
[1] Let alone the fact that getting a new passport from abroad is a serious pain in the ass, since they let the nowhereland called Quebec impose complicated procedures for proving one's birthplace, without requiring the said nowheremen to establish a system to have it all handled by the Canadian Embassies abroad, pretty much forcing one to temporarily return to Canashit to handle it all in person.
[2] Too bad the cold war is over. With such a hatered for Canada, a taste for anything expansive and exotic, a knack for languages, not to mention excellent IT skills, I would have been the perfect double agent. *sigh*
Software is not supposed to be about how to work around a useability issue. - Ken Barber
eh?
It's not a quarter up here in Calgary. It used to be, but now it's 35 cents! Nobody carries 35 cents with them! Grrr!
evry body knows that u have to turn off your cell on the plane so...
if it happen it happen other way around people from the play called...
plus i doubt that cell phones would work on the plane....
Who controls the information, controls the world...
Now, when making sweeping generalizations like this, you are setting yourself up to be sadly misinformed.
The anti-Globalization movement has not taken on anti-Semitic aspects. A good number of anti-globalization activists will agree they do not like the current policies and actions that the Israeli government is taking against the Palestinians. If there is any anti-Semitism, it's due to the fucking neo-Nazis suddenly jumping in all of this. They do not care for any of the anti-Globalization issues, they just want to show how much they hate Jews. Here's actually some information regarding any anti-Semitism that is occuring within the anti-globalization movement.
(Note: This part of InfoShop.org is an Anarchist blog.)
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The Enemy of my Enemy is NOT my friend.
That makes two of you dumbass Canucks talking about 1812. I don't think so. How about 1774, when the Continental Congress invited Canada to join.
How large is the area they want to jam? If it crosses over the US border, well, they've got a biiig problem.
[insert witty comment here]
>...ould be able to take her safety into her own hands by carrying a gun she spent the time receiving traini...
:)
Ok. go ahead and jam radio during the events, to stop terrorists. But also allow everyone there to carry a gun. That way the whouldbe terrorists and violent demonstrators could do no dammage whatsoever.
FRA: STFU GTFO