So I guess you're leaning in the direction of, this guy is an arrogant A-Hole who thinks every potential security problem is a glaring statement of the developers incompetence as well as impotence? I wouldn't disagree you.
I did read what the guy was saying and he did sound like a bit of a prick.
These kinds of security problems leave the door open for someone else to determine the future of Linux.
You've just handed Microsoft a huge Public Relations goodie that they can beat to death as definitive proof that Linux fails to promptly fix security bugs. And now it can be extended to a universal problem with all Open Source Software. And now everything is back to being Microsoft or Death.
Sure I exaggerate, but don't you think others will try to do the same?
I don't know if the guy from GRsecurity can be classified as an asshole or not. I have found a lot of people who do post security patches tend to be very arrogant buttholes, but I've never met the guy. So there's some room here to determine just who's the bitch now.
But if these are real security holes and have been around this long, we've lost a tremendous edge on what advantage Linux has been able to claim in the past. The door is open.
My guess is that the best candidate is going to be OpenBSD or one of the other BSD's. It wouldn't surprise me. As something goes mainstream, it's political fat starts to overwhelm it's technical agility. To prevent this you have to fight very hard. Feature Creep is one name for this phenomenon. It could be argued that Linux has become focused on providing new and interesting features over old and boring performance expectations. This is to be expected as more people start pressing for wish list features and begin to ignore the original problems of security and stability. If you've ever wanted to see this in action - watch Debian. People are bitching now that Debian Unstable should be the defacto distribution version today and just wave their hands in dismissal when someone complains about packages breaking in Unstable. Apparently they too have accepted inherent stability problems in lieu of stability.
This is dangerous for all organizations who do this. As the foundation is ignored, you will start to permit some really illusive bugs into the system.
Similar extensions can be found when comparing Debian's Stable to Mandrake et al. Debian tends to be much slower on new developments, but they have a very good track record for basic performance. Similarly OpenBSD has it's software/hardware limitations, but it's definitely secure.
And any arguements regarding the security of a system as installed from the distro-provider is pretty much BS. They have each decided to install towards a target audience. To expect to be able to execute an installation on an unprotected machine and have no security holes appear at any point in the process is more trouble than it's worth. The price of doing an installation behind a firewall is far lower and a waste of development resources.
Look into the fanless VIA Epia 533MHz mini-itx systems. You can build one of these in a closed case with no fans/circulation if you provide an external power brick for the power supply.
If you build it sealed with no floppy/cdroms, then dust would be a minimal problem. If you add these, you'll need external doors.
I don't know how much of this type of case you'll find on the internet ready to go, but you could make it your first project in your new tool room!
These machines are no power house and have relatively lame graphics performance by todays standards, but if all you're looking for are websites on how to do something in your shop, or suture wounds as the result of doing something wrong, this would suffice.
Yeah, well every great breakthrough in human history has pivoted upon the Materials that he was able to manipulate: Bronze, Iron, Steel, Silicon... Theoretically you can go some pretty awesome stuff with Optical BiRefringence, but the technology to build the physical devices has been wanting for over 20 years. You can build big ones, about the size of the original transistors, but nothing to put them into a IC construction.
One of the biggest limitations to more advanced material construction of electronics/optics is that
AlGaAs / GaAs structures, while uber cool require a very painstaking Molecular Beam Epitaxy to create
All of the electronics technology is built on in a 2 dimensional world
By two dimentions I mean that silicone transistors work along the Z-axis only and move electrons around on X and Y axis from transistor to transistor. But for Optical devices to work, they need to build these finely tuned structures along the X-Z or Y-Z axis which is hard to do with any technology. Nano technology is the precursor to being to do this.
You don't have to do business with people who insist you use Windows. But that's your choice.
And I never said Windows users liked to fuck up they systems. But then sheep don't like being fed to the wolves either. Sometimes they don't know any better.
It's easy to mask. Thats why they have to sit a certain way when taking x-rays. If you tape a ceramic knife inside your hard copy of Cryptonomicon it's not likely to raise an eyebrow.
Laser Targeting systems are Infra Red, not Visible. So marking a plane for a missile wouldn't be identified until you were going, "Oh Shit! That looks like a missile!.. BOOM!".
Has anyone considered how easy it would be to carry a knife onto an airplane? How about a ceramic kitchen knife. No X-Ray footprint. But that's moot because no plane in the US is going to allow a bunch of whack-o's another opportunity. It would suicide to even try.
Obviously our Nations sense of humor was damaged as much as the Trade Center was.
The egos problem will take care of itself in time.
As soon as someone develops a package management system that's better than Debian, rather than just duplicating it, then Debian will be in a position to lose.
Gentoo has a lot of potential on their package management system, but I've been repeatedly burned by their lack of basic safeguards in configuration and updates. For example: who would ever upgrade their/etc/fstab table from their own system to the one provided as default (which is empty). This is one of those files that should never be permitted to upgrade even if the user begs for it.
I did manage to do that on more than on occasion. Why? Because they don't have any 'sane' defaults like Debian does. With Debian, if you have a file that's already there, they won't replace it unless you specifically tell it to. And it won't upgrade to a version that isn't compatible with your existing configuration without specifically telling you all about it.
And when someone tells me I'm a dope for doing these things incorrectly on Gentoo, they they probably need to consider themselves elitist and egomaniacal.
I'm scared to death that in the name of "Ease of Operation" people will settle for the likes of SuSE at the sacrifice of Debian and Gentoo.
I spend more than a year running only SuSE around here and found that it was very nice to use. Just as long as you didn't try to do anything that they didn't anticipate. They have a good concept in management of a workstation/server. But if your needs deviate from their path, it becomes increasingly difficult to execute. Many times it's easier to go back to source compilation.
So I spent two months with Fedora Core 1 and RedHat 9. Same thing only worse. They have some management tools that were horribly broken. Never should a script to manage firewall rules (iptables) effect the ntp time server. Under these version of RedHat, one would disable the other. A crime worthy of Microsoft in my opinion.
So I went back to Debian. It's not the cleanest install, but how many times to do you install a new Operating System? Especially when you can do an upgrade from one to the next. You can't do that with SuSE or Windows. I don't know about Mandrake or RedHat.
Debian allows me to do exactly what I want in a way that is compatable with the installation. The only time I've ever had to resort to source compilation is when they didn't have a package available.
RedHat (SuSE)
A good distribution for someone who is looking for products which are supported by contractors and vendors. A widely popular distribution which targets the Enterprise computer industry with marketed points of Vendor support, Third party package availability, simplified GUI's with a design towards a single look and feel for all concerned.
Gentoo
Very actively developed based on some good ideas. It's newness prevents it from really approaching a serious consideration for many users and most Enterprise applications. Exceptions do exist, but are the minority. Very high potential for success once some concessions are made towards making the system more stable, easier to manage, and less likely to explode.
Debian
One of the oldest distributions and also surprisingly popular with software developers. Definitely one of the top five in the industry and holding strong. While it does not cater to the Enterprise crowd through market-speak, it could perform as such given the chance. Also there is a fundamental lacking in the One Size fits all approach that SuSE (and to some degree RedHat) have taken. This can lead to a confusion at the desktop when users switch between KDE, Gnome, and WindowMaker (top 3). It's also know for it's focus on being stable over current.
While there is a lot of pressure on Debian to move off the focus on stable and move towards being more current, this needs to be addressed not as a means of changing the process with greater options for the user community, but to address how the existing (and proven over years) process might be better improved upon. Much has been done through automation of the defined process steps already.
Are you asking for Debian to switch to RPM because it's better or because more people compile software in RPM formats?
Do you realize just how hard it isn't to compile software in.deb formats as well? Might it make more sense to use the better of the two packages in the long run rather than going with the most popular?
Of course, you've already answered that question because you are using Linux in lieu of Windows.
RPM is a package that sucks balls too. But it's something that does a lot of cool stuff if you know how to use it. And if you don't, there's tools that run on top of rpm to make it simpler to use for people like me who have no interest in spending the hours reading the man pages.
So instead of being some kind of troll just quit your bitching and either go back to your preferred distribution or use something more highly recommended like aptitude.
Has anyone noticed that the RPM distributions are starting to use the apt-get approach?
Could you have used Debians pinning to selectively upgrade PHP to the testing branch?
You've got a point about the slow fix to the flaw. But I don't believe the solution is going to be managed through adding additional levels complexity. But focusing on how to get the existing process to move more smoothly.
Why must the solution always require a X-window GUI? You've now required a huge amount of resources be deployed just to update/select packages for a DNS/printer server.
Aptitude/apt-get rocks the socks off anything I've seen and I would really hate to try and run some GUI over my internet SSH connection across the country just to execute my periodic 'apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade'
One possible solution would be to divide Debian into a "server version" and one for the workstations who actually _want_ (or need) to run stuff from testing. Although this would mean double the work for the package maintainers (et al) I'm sure it would make Debian even more attractive as a desktop alternative. Today, I don't know a single n00b or even semi-n00b using it for her home PC or similar - it's all Windows, Xandros or possibly SuSE. On the other hand basically all of my friends who proudly call them selves sysadmins are running Debian (stable) on their production boxes...
Please don't...
Debian already has four levels of version: stable, testing, unstable, and the new expiremental. Adding any more levels or options to the process will only slow down the release of stable. I really don't think you want to wait for the next release of Debian Dorever 3D do you?
If you want a server version then stick to stable. If there's a package that you need that's newer then selectively import that from testing while keeping the rest of your system stable.
It's a cute sounding suggestion, are you the one who is actually going to have to live with it, or are you trying to sound intelligent? You forget you are dealing with a voluneer group. If you add a shitload of beaurocratic complexity to the process you will have to start paying them to put up with your stupid ideas.
I've worked will someone for over a year on using Linux and they have settled on SuSE. They don't like it, but they just don't want to learn anything more about it. They have to settle for a lot of things that they can't do or can't do right.
Adding more distribution levels to Debian will only make things more difficult to manage. Don't fuck with it unless you want to fix it yourself.
When are you going to realize that there will always be two types of users on computers? Sheep and Geeks. Sheep like to download virus and spyware and adware and if they can't have butterflies for their mouse pointer they shit themselves. And they don't care about anything else. Let the sheep use Windows and be stupid and pathetic and annoying and let the rest of us use Linux and have a clue and not have to deal with the sheep unless we need some money. Sheep pay a lot of money for stupid stuff. Don't fix it for them, or we might all be out of work.
I would rather not work on refining the genetic code and bringing Gattica into reality but try to avoid The Day After Tomorrow from arriving just that soon.
If I execute a folding genome step, that brings to bear revolutionary information, who owns it? Me or Archer-Daniels-Midland?
Who decides the priorities of the projects?
I think our genetic code will be just fine without our studying it, but I can't say the same for our planet.
Unix, and really any software platform, could really benefit by two things:
Stricter adherence to the standards set forth. This is a plus in any software. It sure would be nice to be able to develop to the spec and know it will work.
Hardware is a pain. Again, compliance to specifications would be nice. We are fast approaching a point where all hardware can be grouped into a series of connectivity processes, namely USB, SCSI, Firewire, SATA, optical and probably not much more than three others. Face it, ltp and com are dead.
What concerns me the most about such a question is that we'll first have to try to assess which Unix Fixes are being proposed not to really fix anything that's wrong with the OS, but just to change it for the sake of changing it.
If you mean the apache logs please keep in mind that most of us are browsing around from work using our company mandated OS while waiting for someone from HelpDesk come up with to the office with the right "whatever" to fix "whatever" problem exists today.
You were doing OK until you came up with that whiney bitch session about Gore and Bush and chads.
The Democratic party completely fucked that one up. Sure they lost and sure they had a public majority of votes. But after the election they were completely impotent. They demonstrated an amazing level of incompetence since then.
It might have been more useful to the country if they had spent the next four years lobbying for a constitutional amendment to get rid of the electoral college in favor of a popular vote. Today we have the technology (without electronic voting machines) to execute popular votes effectively. That's the only reason that I'm aware of that they even needed an electoral college.
Unfortunately the Democratic party is in a lot more trouble than some box of chads will ever solve. They just don't hit the mark.
I think you need to understand some more options about the audience you will be dealing with. Not only at the client level, but at the larger architectural and business operations levels.
As for the software considerations, It's very possible to find examples of fast/slow, secure/insecure, java/net applications that will serve everyones examples. The point on this is you can find good/bad developers for any software platform. Remember that you get what you pay for.
Getting back to the Health Care System. You remark that Hospitals are the audience, but are they the only audience? There are also some massive security requirements that you will have to address. If you can't meet these government regulations you simply won't be doing business with anyone.
The Health Care industry, despite it's spiraling costs as experienced by anyone needing services, does not give software systems a financial priority, including OS upgrades.
It has nothing to do with DNS. My ISP does have a reverse DNS list for my Dynamic IP address. But that has nothing to do with being a zombied machine or not.
The effective method of killing off the zombies is to use greylisting for your email.
Slashdot Mirror
So I guess you're leaning in the direction of, this guy is an arrogant A-Hole who thinks every potential security problem is a glaring statement of the developers incompetence as well as impotence? I wouldn't disagree you.
I did read what the guy was saying and he did sound like a bit of a prick.
These kinds of security problems leave the door open for someone else to determine the future of Linux.
You've just handed Microsoft a huge Public Relations goodie that they can beat to death as definitive proof that Linux fails to promptly fix security bugs. And now it can be extended to a universal problem with all Open Source Software. And now everything is back to being Microsoft or Death.
Sure I exaggerate, but don't you think others will try to do the same?
I don't know if the guy from GRsecurity can be classified as an asshole or not. I have found a lot of people who do post security patches tend to be very arrogant buttholes, but I've never met the guy. So there's some room here to determine just who's the bitch now.
But if these are real security holes and have been around this long, we've lost a tremendous edge on what advantage Linux has been able to claim in the past. The door is open.
My guess is that the best candidate is going to be OpenBSD or one of the other BSD's. It wouldn't surprise me. As something goes mainstream, it's political fat starts to overwhelm it's technical agility. To prevent this you have to fight very hard. Feature Creep is one name for this phenomenon. It could be argued that Linux has become focused on providing new and interesting features over old and boring performance expectations. This is to be expected as more people start pressing for wish list features and begin to ignore the original problems of security and stability. If you've ever wanted to see this in action - watch Debian. People are bitching now that Debian Unstable should be the defacto distribution version today and just wave their hands in dismissal when someone complains about packages breaking in Unstable. Apparently they too have accepted inherent stability problems in lieu of stability.
This is dangerous for all organizations who do this. As the foundation is ignored, you will start to permit some really illusive bugs into the system.
Similar extensions can be found when comparing Debian's Stable to Mandrake et al. Debian tends to be much slower on new developments, but they have a very good track record for basic performance. Similarly OpenBSD has it's software/hardware limitations, but it's definitely secure.
And any arguements regarding the security of a system as installed from the distro-provider is pretty much BS. They have each decided to install towards a target audience. To expect to be able to execute an installation on an unprotected machine and have no security holes appear at any point in the process is more trouble than it's worth. The price of doing an installation behind a firewall is far lower and a waste of development resources.
Look into the fanless VIA Epia 533MHz mini-itx systems. You can build one of these in a closed case with no fans/circulation if you provide an external power brick for the power supply.
If you build it sealed with no floppy/cdroms, then dust would be a minimal problem. If you add these, you'll need external doors.
I don't know how much of this type of case you'll find on the internet ready to go, but you could make it your first project in your new tool room!
These machines are no power house and have relatively lame graphics performance by todays standards, but if all you're looking for are websites on how to do something in your shop, or suture wounds as the result of doing something wrong, this would suffice.
Yeah, well every great breakthrough in human history has pivoted upon the Materials that he was able to manipulate: Bronze, Iron, Steel, Silicon... Theoretically you can go some pretty awesome stuff with Optical BiRefringence, but the technology to build the physical devices has been wanting for over 20 years. You can build big ones, about the size of the original transistors, but nothing to put them into a IC construction.
One of the biggest limitations to more advanced material construction of electronics/optics is that
- AlGaAs / GaAs structures, while uber cool require a very painstaking Molecular Beam Epitaxy to create
- All of the electronics technology is built on in a 2 dimensional world
By two dimentions I mean that silicone transistors work along the Z-axis only and move electrons around on X and Y axis from transistor to transistor. But for Optical devices to work, they need to build these finely tuned structures along the X-Z or Y-Z axis which is hard to do with any technology. Nano technology is the precursor to being to do this.You don't have to do business with people who insist you use Windows. But that's your choice.
And I never said Windows users liked to fuck up they systems. But then sheep don't like being fed to the wolves either. Sometimes they don't know any better.
Sheep are very dim..
It's easy to mask. Thats why they have to sit a certain way when taking x-rays. If you tape a ceramic knife inside your hard copy of Cryptonomicon it's not likely to raise an eyebrow.
We've messed up again.
Laser Targeting systems are Infra Red, not Visible. So marking a plane for a missile wouldn't be identified until you were going, "Oh Shit! That looks like a missile!.. BOOM!".
Has anyone considered how easy it would be to carry a knife onto an airplane? How about a ceramic kitchen knife. No X-Ray footprint. But that's moot because no plane in the US is going to allow a bunch of whack-o's another opportunity. It would suicide to even try.
Obviously our Nations sense of humor was damaged as much as the Trade Center was.
Is a bitch!
No wait... I can prove that!
I know. I used SuSE for over a year. It's a pig.
The egos problem will take care of itself in time.
As soon as someone develops a package management system that's better than Debian, rather than just duplicating it, then Debian will be in a position to lose.
Gentoo has a lot of potential on their package management system, but I've been repeatedly burned by their lack of basic safeguards in configuration and updates. For example: who would ever upgrade their /etc/fstab table from their own system to the one provided as default (which is empty). This is one of those files that should never be permitted to upgrade even if the user begs for it.
I did manage to do that on more than on occasion. Why? Because they don't have any 'sane' defaults like Debian does. With Debian, if you have a file that's already there, they won't replace it unless you specifically tell it to. And it won't upgrade to a version that isn't compatible with your existing configuration without specifically telling you all about it.
And when someone tells me I'm a dope for doing these things incorrectly on Gentoo, they they probably need to consider themselves elitist and egomaniacal.
No, I was being unbelievably sarcastic.
I'm scared to death that in the name of "Ease of Operation" people will settle for the likes of SuSE at the sacrifice of Debian and Gentoo.
I spend more than a year running only SuSE around here and found that it was very nice to use. Just as long as you didn't try to do anything that they didn't anticipate. They have a good concept in management of a workstation/server. But if your needs deviate from their path, it becomes increasingly difficult to execute. Many times it's easier to go back to source compilation.
So I spent two months with Fedora Core 1 and RedHat 9. Same thing only worse. They have some management tools that were horribly broken. Never should a script to manage firewall rules (iptables) effect the ntp time server. Under these version of RedHat, one would disable the other. A crime worthy of Microsoft in my opinion.
So I went back to Debian. It's not the cleanest install, but how many times to do you install a new Operating System? Especially when you can do an upgrade from one to the next. You can't do that with SuSE or Windows. I don't know about Mandrake or RedHat.
Debian allows me to do exactly what I want in a way that is compatable with the installation. The only time I've ever had to resort to source compilation is when they didn't have a package available.
The each have their own place
RedHat (SuSE) A good distribution for someone who is looking for products which are supported by contractors and vendors. A widely popular distribution which targets the Enterprise computer industry with marketed points of Vendor support, Third party package availability, simplified GUI's with a design towards a single look and feel for all concerned. Gentoo Very actively developed based on some good ideas. It's newness prevents it from really approaching a serious consideration for many users and most Enterprise applications. Exceptions do exist, but are the minority. Very high potential for success once some concessions are made towards making the system more stable, easier to manage, and less likely to explode. Debian One of the oldest distributions and also surprisingly popular with software developers. Definitely one of the top five in the industry and holding strong. While it does not cater to the Enterprise crowd through market-speak, it could perform as such given the chance. Also there is a fundamental lacking in the One Size fits all approach that SuSE (and to some degree RedHat) have taken. This can lead to a confusion at the desktop when users switch between KDE, Gnome, and WindowMaker (top 3). It's also know for it's focus on being stable over current.While there is a lot of pressure on Debian to move off the focus on stable and move towards being more current, this needs to be addressed not as a means of changing the process with greater options for the user community, but to address how the existing (and proven over years) process might be better improved upon. Much has been done through automation of the defined process steps already.
Are you asking for Debian to switch to RPM because it's better or because more people compile software in RPM formats?
Do you realize just how hard it isn't to compile software in .deb formats as well? Might it make more sense to use the better of the two packages in the long run rather than going with the most popular?
Of course, you've already answered that question because you are using Linux in lieu of Windows.
And dselect is effectively replaced by aptitude.
RPM is a package that sucks balls too. But it's something that does a lot of cool stuff if you know how to use it. And if you don't, there's tools that run on top of rpm to make it simpler to use for people like me who have no interest in spending the hours reading the man pages.
So instead of being some kind of troll just quit your bitching and either go back to your preferred distribution or use something more highly recommended like aptitude.
Has anyone noticed that the RPM distributions are starting to use the apt-get approach?
Could you have used Debians pinning to selectively upgrade PHP to the testing branch?
You've got a point about the slow fix to the flaw. But I don't believe the solution is going to be managed through adding additional levels complexity. But focusing on how to get the existing process to move more smoothly.
Why must the solution always require a X-window GUI? You've now required a huge amount of resources be deployed just to update/select packages for a DNS/printer server.
Aptitude/apt-get rocks the socks off anything I've seen and I would really hate to try and run some GUI over my internet SSH connection across the country just to execute my periodic 'apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade'
Please don't...
Debian already has four levels of version: stable, testing, unstable, and the new expiremental. Adding any more levels or options to the process will only slow down the release of stable. I really don't think you want to wait for the next release of Debian Dorever 3D do you?
If you want a server version then stick to stable. If there's a package that you need that's newer then selectively import that from testing while keeping the rest of your system stable.
It's a cute sounding suggestion, are you the one who is actually going to have to live with it, or are you trying to sound intelligent? You forget you are dealing with a voluneer group. If you add a shitload of beaurocratic complexity to the process you will have to start paying them to put up with your stupid ideas.
I've worked will someone for over a year on using Linux and they have settled on SuSE. They don't like it, but they just don't want to learn anything more about it. They have to settle for a lot of things that they can't do or can't do right.
Adding more distribution levels to Debian will only make things more difficult to manage. Don't fuck with it unless you want to fix it yourself.
When are you going to realize that there will always be two types of users on computers? Sheep and Geeks. Sheep like to download virus and spyware and adware and if they can't have butterflies for their mouse pointer they shit themselves. And they don't care about anything else. Let the sheep use Windows and be stupid and pathetic and annoying and let the rest of us use Linux and have a clue and not have to deal with the sheep unless we need some money. Sheep pay a lot of money for stupid stuff. Don't fix it for them, or we might all be out of work.
I would rather not work on refining the genetic code and bringing Gattica into reality but try to avoid The Day After Tomorrow from arriving just that soon.
If I execute a folding genome step, that brings to bear revolutionary information, who owns it? Me or Archer-Daniels-Midland?
Who decides the priorities of the projects?
I think our genetic code will be just fine without our studying it, but I can't say the same for our planet.
Unix, and really any software platform, could really benefit by two things:
What concerns me the most about such a question is that we'll first have to try to assess which Unix Fixes are being proposed not to really fix anything that's wrong with the OS, but just to change it for the sake of changing it.
If you mean the apache logs please keep in mind that most of us are browsing around from work using our company mandated OS while waiting for someone from HelpDesk come up with to the office with the right "whatever" to fix "whatever" problem exists today.
You were doing OK until you came up with that whiney bitch session about Gore and Bush and chads.
The Democratic party completely fucked that one up. Sure they lost and sure they had a public majority of votes. But after the election they were completely impotent. They demonstrated an amazing level of incompetence since then.
It might have been more useful to the country if they had spent the next four years lobbying for a constitutional amendment to get rid of the electoral college in favor of a popular vote. Today we have the technology (without electronic voting machines) to execute popular votes effectively. That's the only reason that I'm aware of that they even needed an electoral college.
Unfortunately the Democratic party is in a lot more trouble than some box of chads will ever solve. They just don't hit the mark.
I think you need to understand some more options about the audience you will be dealing with. Not only at the client level, but at the larger architectural and business operations levels.
As for the software considerations, It's very possible to find examples of fast/slow, secure/insecure, java/net applications that will serve everyones examples. The point on this is you can find good/bad developers for any software platform. Remember that you get what you pay for.
Getting back to the Health Care System. You remark that Hospitals are the audience, but are they the only audience? There are also some massive security requirements that you will have to address. If you can't meet these government regulations you simply won't be doing business with anyone.
The Health Care industry, despite it's spiraling costs as experienced by anyone needing services, does not give software systems a financial priority, including OS upgrades.
Until they start lining up spammers I really don't care what they do with their section of the Internet.
I'm still for giving the e-chinese the silent treatment.
China Migrating from Socialism to a Capitalistic Republic. America Migrating from a Democracy to a Capitalistic Republic.
It has nothing to do with DNS. My ISP does have a reverse DNS list for my Dynamic IP address. But that has nothing to do with being a zombied machine or not.
The effective method of killing off the zombies is to use greylisting for your email.