Screen was mentioned before, but what wasn't suggested is this:
Use 2-3 or more xterms (rxvt, gnome-terminal, kterm, whatever) and use screen on each of them. If screen isn't already running, start it with "screen -U". If it is already running then connect to it with "screen -U -x -R". Do this in each of your terminals. You will be able to use the screen windows separately in each xterm.
Each terminal window becomes a window into screen's windows. So while screen can have 10 or so windows running in it, you have 2-3 windows into these windows.
It really is very manageable, and the great thing about screen is that you can do it remotely just as easily
what is it really that is going on here, you've got the system for total control so is there anybody out there, now watch us suffer, cause we can't go what is it really that is in your head, what little life that you had just died i'm gonna be the one that's taking over, now this is what it's like when worlds collide...
are you ready to go - cause i'm ready to go - what you gonna do baby - baby are you going with me - cause i'm going with you - it's the end of all time
what is it really that motivates you, the need to fly or this fear to stop i'll go along for the ride but surprise, when we get there is say 9 of 10 drop now who's the light and who is the devil, you can't decide so i'll be your guide and one by one they will be hand chosen, now this is what it's like when worlds collide...
are you ready to go - cause i'm ready to go - what you gonna do baby - baby are you going with me - cause i'm going with you - it's the end of all time
what is it really when they're falling over, everything that you thought was denied i'm gonna be the one that's takin over, now this is what it's like when worlds collide
So really, its what its like when EGO's collide: Thomas Dickey wrote:
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Peter "Firefly" Lund wrote:
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, David Dawes wrote:
When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same.
Err... No.
He was quite reasonable, in my opinion.
He thought he was, but when I get email from people phrased that way, I don't appreciate it.
Thomas Dickey,
You sent me the biggest insult I have ever received in my life. How can you not realize that? How can you do anything except apologize for your extremely rude message? Please, never, ever, respond to another word that I write until you correct yourself.
Never underestimate the importance of a good social life. Even if it is with the people you work with, leave the work talk at work and have a good time. It doesn't matter what you enjoy, clubs, dancing, bars, drinking, playing sports, or watching sports. The key to steal a slogan is to just do it.
Its easy as a techie to go home from work and 'work' on your own projects. This is the time that most open source work gets done. But the beast that can do that more than once a week is a rare one. Most humans need something else.
Social interaction is more than irc, aim, etc... There is much to be said for physical interaction. I suppose there was a time when I got some satisfaction out of conversing with people online. Now I use it merely as another means of communication with people I already know, not as a means to communicate with new people.
Windows XP has an excellent feature that I have seen nowhere else. The feature is called Switch User, and is available only when the machine is not part of an NT Domain(not sure about AD). The feature is enabled in the Users/Groups control panel by a allow users to switch checkbox.
At first glance the feature was nothing that couldn't be ackomplished with a good X session manager like gnome-session. A user logs out and another users logs in. Go back to that first users and all the programs are restored where they left off. But This is NOT the Microsoft switch user feature. In XP, the user never really logs off. All the programs are left running in the background while another person works. This is a huge contrast to current X windows usage, and is a feature I would love to see on X at some level.
The application specific point I've found is for applications like file sharing. Brother is transfering files on napster, but sister wants to use the computer to check her email and use her Web browser bookmarks. Today in X Windows land, brother would have to close his program and let sister login. But in Windows XP land, he could simply switch users.
I know that all this really equates to is a full GUI version of screen. But Windowing applications are much more user friendly than console applications. Try teaching your mother or grandmother to user screen.
If anyone could come up with a model for allowing X windows to do this, I would love to see ideas. Would this kind of feature be implemented at the Display Manager level, allowing xdm/gdm/kdm to wrap each users session and let them switch?
If any work is being done in this area, please do tell. It is a feature I am most interested in. And with Unix's inherent superiourity in multiple user features, This is something X Windows should be able to do much better than MS Windows(no NT domain support *laugh*)
Wild Tangent has some interesting technologies that allow AWESOME game production in a very short period of time, and they can be plugged into on the web via ActiveX controls.
www.wildtangent.com
Why does no one see 3dfx to be the evil company that Digital Convergence has been made out to be in the above comments by Mr. Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda?
The only real difference between 3dfx hardware running well with linux, and Digital Convergence hardware running well with linux, is that Daryll Strauss signed an NDA with 3dfx and kept the IP of 3dfx closed source. Glide on linux is closed source. When was the last time a slashdot user played Quake3 under linux using glide, a *gasp* closed source piece of software. It was probably less than minutes ago.
Digital Convergence has every right to take the steps they have taken so far. As OSS advocates, we may not like it. But keep in mind, we are the ones breaking laws, not Digital Convergence.
You do not have the right to modify anything you buy Mr. Malda. If you buy electronics and build an FM transmiter of a moderate amount of power, the FCC will find you, and they will fine you. I'm all for civil liberties, and I personally agree that writing my own glide drivers, or my own bar code reader drivers, should be legal, and I should be able to distribute them. This is not always possible or legal in today's system.
If you modify your car to make it look cool by taking the bumpers off of it, again police will stop you. Its simply not legal. Neither is reverse engineering in this country.
The proper way to further the cause of OSS is certainly not defiance. Instead, simply do not buy the products of such a company. Let them know that if they had OSS drivers, and supported OSS, that you would buy from them, but until then, you won't.
When was the last time you bought a book from Amazon? Is the one-click patent so different from this case? Both companies are obviously holding close to something rediculously elementary for life. Boycott seems so worthless, but as one person it's just as powerful, if not more, than the one vote you get as a citizen through democratic process.
Re:Oh no, not another Winmodem...
on
WinDSL Coming?
·
· Score: 1
But you must remember that you aren't updating the firmware. Software modems don't have firmware, they are a DSP on a card. You can update the software that runs the modem, and this software includes the job of what traditionally is in firmware. It is really just a software upgrade.
What is even worse about the performance issue of these modems is that they are "low-end" so they will probably only be slipped into low-end systems, making performance of those low-end systems even worse. The high-end systems will retain hardware capabilities.
This leads to cases like, "I don't know why your 400Mhz system is faster than my new 600Mhz system."
Well, when I bought my 400Mhz system I loaded it up(this is hypothetical, I have about 4 400Mhz systems in this room, and I'm not talking about any of them). The 400Mhz system has 256MB of RAM, a really fast Graphics system(name your own), and a fast disk system(7200rpm, maybe scsi), hardware modem, postscript printer with lots of ram...
Your poor 600Mhz system only has 64MB of ram, last years cheezy video card, and an old 5400rpm ATA33 disk in it, software modem, and a windows printer.
So, my entire document is already spooled to my printer, while you are waiting for your system to process how to print it. You also hear the disk thrashing, its called swapping.
I launch a game of quake3 or UT or another cpu/gfx intensive game and I play while I'm printing. You were able to lauch quake3 but your disk is still crunching. That substandard graphics chip doesn't play too well when it can't have all of that processor working for it...
I could continue the scenario, but I digress...
I did want to say however that linux 2.2.x is damn efficient. I have an EIDE cd burner on a ATA33 bus that I use with cdrecord. I can burn discs in the background while playing quake3. This is a wussy Celeron 400, not overclocked, still at the lame 66Mhz FSB. And this box only has 64MB of ram! I was most impressed by this. No buffer underruns, the disc was perfect.
Bring on 2.4.x, cuz I failed to mention that it has 2 of those Celeron 400's, and the SMP should be even better in 2.4.
I wanted to point out that with ACPI, Automatic Configuration and Power Interface, the IRQ issues all go away, I see it as an invalid argument. In my ACPI systems I have my SCSI card, AGP Card, VGA Card(yes, multiheaded), NIC, SCSI, Sound, and USB all running on a single IRQ, IRQ9. I don't know if 9 is significant as the 8bit-16bit bridge w/IRQ2 from the old 286 days or not. But the point is, IRQ problems are a thing of the past.
Just like any technology, each has its place. My grandfather who wants 20Gigs of space to make home movies on his iMac DV or PC workstation shouldn't have to spend $500 for a disk. He doesn't. In fact the space can be had for under $200.
On the other hand, a profession movie maker will want a nice set of striped 10krpm SCSI disks to really be able to read and write all that movie information, these are the workstations that get RAID arrays and are well justified.
I don't see the conflict myself. I would love a SCSI system, but my pocket books doesn't. Right now I'm more than satisfied with my 7.2krpm IDE drive running 11gigs of Reiserfs. It is actually the second fastest filesystem I've ever worked on next to Compaq Dec Unix's Advfs on 5 IBM 18Gig 7.2krpm disks in a RAID5 configuration.
That said nothing comes close to SGI's disk arrays. So much efficient striping allows for over a TB/s sustained transfer rate. But looking at the $$$ it is believable.
First I wanted to point out that the title contains 'MS-SQL' which I initially thought meant MS SQL Server, upon reading the article it was obvious MS Access is what was meant.
MySQL is an excellent database and probably beats MS Access feature for feature. That said it is by no means a powerful database. Its lack of support for nested sub-queries causes many dba's to turn cheek when they see it. What it lacks in features it makes up in speed.
To answer your question directly, asp2php includes database conversion, it will convert your Access to MySQL or other SQLs (see webpage, search freshmeat)
If your database is simple, use MySQL, if you are moving because you would have otherwise moved to MS SQL Server, Oracle, or other larger database, you may want to look at PostgreSQL or even running Oracle or Informix on linux.
Much also depends on how you will access this data, if you will depend heavily on views to abstract the tables to your users, you won't want to use MySQL. If you don't really have a user base it is relatively trivial to work around this in your source. Afterall, last time I heard, slashdot was MySQL driven, all that info and its so darned fast.
This is absolutely not true. Even the latest and greatest 3dfx or nVidia cards do not come even close to the performance of year old SGI Visual Workstations. I was lucky enough to use a simple (only $4000) 320 model. It did real time 3d rendering like nothing I've ever seen. Not to mention even the most complex Photoshop filters(yes the Kia's included) in only a few seconds. I watched as it operated on a 15MB image file and applied filter after filter with the operator not pausing.
It still beats the latest G4's from Mac, which have been Photoship king for sometime. The really impressive piece of these Intel machines was 2 fold. One, they didn't have a BIOS in the traditional since of a PC, instead they had a ARC Console like the Alpha's that run NT. Two, SGI actually rewrite the NT HAL from source code obtained from Microsoft. This was key in the way thier machines worked, and they DID work.
NT doesn't seem quite as horrible when SGI has re-written the Hardware Abstraction Layer and many of the Drivers for the hardware running.
Now on a completely different note: The title of this Slashdot article is "SGI Steps out of the Workstation Market" which is entirely untrue. SGI is stepping out of the Microsoft Windows based workstation market. SGI is selling workstations right now with either MIPS/IRIX or INTEL/Linux as the platform.
One should also realize that SGI's former CEO pushed SGI into this Microsoft direction. This former CEO was picked up by Microsoft after he left SGI in shambles, the new CEO seems to really be getting SGI back to its roots. Notice the moves away from Cray and Visual Workstation markets, much like Steven Jobs did for Apple when he dumped the Newton and other Apple projects that weren't related to core Apple fundamentals and directions.
Slashdot Mirror
Screen was mentioned before, but what wasn't suggested is this:
Use 2-3 or more xterms (rxvt, gnome-terminal, kterm, whatever) and use screen on each of them. If screen isn't already running, start it with "screen -U". If it is already running then connect to it with "screen -U -x -R". Do this in each of your terminals. You will be able to use the screen windows separately in each xterm.
Each terminal window becomes a window into screen's windows. So while screen can have 10 or so windows running in it, you have 2-3 windows into these windows.
It really is very manageable, and the great thing about screen is that you can do it remotely just as easily
what is it really that is going on here, ...
...
:
you've got the system for total control
so is there anybody out there,
now watch us suffer, cause we can't go
what is it really that is in your head,
what little life that you had just died
i'm gonna be the one that's taking over,
now this is what it's like when worlds collide
are you ready to go - cause i'm ready to go - what you gonna do baby - baby
are you going with me - cause i'm going with you - it's the end of all time
what is it really that motivates you, the need to fly or this fear to stop
i'll go along for the ride but surprise, when we get there is say 9 of 10 drop
now who's the light and who is the devil, you can't decide so i'll be your guide
and one by one they will be hand chosen,
now this is what it's like when worlds collide
are you ready to go - cause i'm ready to go - what you gonna do baby - baby
are you going with me - cause i'm going with you - it's the end of all time
what is it really when they're falling over,
everything that you thought was denied
i'm gonna be the one that's takin over,
now this is what it's like when worlds collide
So really, its what its like when EGO's collide
Thomas Dickey wrote:
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Peter "Firefly" Lund wrote:
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, David Dawes wrote:
When I discussed this with you privately a while ago all I got were
disrespectful and insulting responses. Now there is more of the same.
Err... No.
He was quite reasonable, in my opinion.
He thought he was, but when I get email from people phrased that way,
I don't appreciate it.
Thomas Dickey,
You sent me the biggest insult I have ever received in my life. How can you not realize that? How can you do anything except apologize for your extremely rude message? Please, never, ever, respond to another word that I write until you correct yourself.
Harold
Black and Tans with friends.
Never underestimate the importance of a good social life. Even if it is with the people you work with, leave the work talk at work and have a good time. It doesn't matter what you enjoy, clubs, dancing, bars, drinking, playing sports, or watching sports. The key to steal a slogan is to just do it.
Its easy as a techie to go home from work and 'work' on your own projects. This is the time that most open source work gets done. But the beast that can do that more than once a week is a rare one. Most humans need something else.
Social interaction is more than irc, aim, etc... There is much to be said for physical interaction. I suppose there was a time when I got some satisfaction out of conversing with people online. Now I use it merely as another means of communication with people I already know, not as a means to communicate with new people.
In short, drink beer.
-e
Windows XP has an excellent feature that I have seen nowhere else. The feature is called Switch User, and is available only when the machine is not part of an NT Domain(not sure about AD). The feature is enabled in the Users/Groups control panel by a allow users to switch checkbox.
At first glance the feature was nothing that couldn't be ackomplished with a good X session manager like gnome-session. A user logs out and another users logs in. Go back to that first users and all the programs are restored where they left off. But This is NOT the Microsoft switch user feature. In XP, the user never really logs off. All the programs are left running in the background while another person works. This is a huge contrast to current X windows usage, and is a feature I would love to see on X at some level.
The application specific point I've found is for applications like file sharing. Brother is transfering files on napster, but sister wants to use the computer to check her email and use her Web browser bookmarks. Today in X Windows land, brother would have to close his program and let sister login. But in Windows XP land, he could simply switch users.
I know that all this really equates to is a full GUI version of screen. But Windowing applications are much more user friendly than console applications. Try teaching your mother or grandmother to user screen.
If anyone could come up with a model for allowing X windows to do this, I would love to see ideas. Would this kind of feature be implemented at the Display Manager level, allowing xdm/gdm/kdm to wrap each users session and let them switch?
If any work is being done in this area, please do tell. It is a feature I am most interested in. And with Unix's inherent superiourity in multiple user features, This is something X Windows should be able to do much better than MS Windows(no NT domain support *laugh*)
-j
Wild Tangent has some interesting technologies that allow AWESOME game production in a very short period of time, and they can be plugged into on the web via ActiveX controls. www.wildtangent.com
Why does no one see 3dfx to be the evil company that Digital Convergence has been made out to be in the above comments by Mr. Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda?
The only real difference between 3dfx hardware running well with linux, and Digital Convergence hardware running well with linux, is that Daryll Strauss signed an NDA with 3dfx and kept the IP of 3dfx closed source. Glide on linux is closed source. When was the last time a slashdot user played Quake3 under linux using glide, a *gasp* closed source piece of software. It was probably less than minutes ago.
Digital Convergence has every right to take the steps they have taken so far. As OSS advocates, we may not like it. But keep in mind, we are the ones breaking laws, not Digital Convergence.
You do not have the right to modify anything you buy Mr. Malda. If you buy electronics and build an FM transmiter of a moderate amount of power, the FCC will find you, and they will fine you. I'm all for civil liberties, and I personally agree that writing my own glide drivers, or my own bar code reader drivers, should be legal, and I should be able to distribute them. This is not always possible or legal in today's system.
If you modify your car to make it look cool by taking the bumpers off of it, again police will stop you. Its simply not legal. Neither is reverse engineering in this country.
The proper way to further the cause of OSS is certainly not defiance. Instead, simply do not buy the products of such a company. Let them know that if they had OSS drivers, and supported OSS, that you would buy from them, but until then, you won't.
When was the last time you bought a book from Amazon? Is the one-click patent so different from this case? Both companies are obviously holding close to something rediculously elementary for life. Boycott seems so worthless, but as one person it's just as powerful, if not more, than the one vote you get as a citizen through democratic process.
But you must remember that you aren't updating the firmware. Software modems don't have firmware, they are a DSP on a card. You can update the software that runs the modem, and this software includes the job of what traditionally is in firmware. It is really just a software upgrade.
What is even worse about the performance issue of these modems is that they are "low-end" so they will probably only be slipped into low-end systems, making performance of those low-end systems even worse. The high-end systems will retain hardware capabilities.
This leads to cases like, "I don't know why your 400Mhz system is faster than my new 600Mhz system."
Well, when I bought my 400Mhz system I loaded it up(this is hypothetical, I have about 4 400Mhz systems in this room, and I'm not talking about any of them). The 400Mhz system has 256MB of RAM, a really fast Graphics system(name your own), and a fast disk system(7200rpm, maybe scsi), hardware modem, postscript printer with lots of ram...
Your poor 600Mhz system only has 64MB of ram, last years cheezy video card, and an old 5400rpm ATA33 disk in it, software modem, and a windows printer.
So, my entire document is already spooled to my printer, while you are waiting for your system to process how to print it. You also hear the disk thrashing, its called swapping.
I launch a game of quake3 or UT or another cpu/gfx intensive game and I play while I'm printing. You were able to lauch quake3 but your disk is still crunching. That substandard graphics chip doesn't play too well when it can't have all of that processor working for it...
I could continue the scenario, but I digress...
I did want to say however that linux 2.2.x is damn efficient. I have an EIDE cd burner on a ATA33 bus that I use with cdrecord. I can burn discs in the background while playing quake3. This is a wussy Celeron 400, not overclocked, still at the lame 66Mhz FSB. And this box only has 64MB of ram! I was most impressed by this. No buffer underruns, the disc was perfect.
Bring on 2.4.x, cuz I failed to mention that it has 2 of those Celeron 400's, and the SMP should be even better in 2.4.
--
no catchy tagline
I wanted to point out that with ACPI, Automatic Configuration and Power Interface, the IRQ issues all go away, I see it as an invalid argument. In my ACPI systems I have my SCSI card, AGP Card, VGA Card(yes, multiheaded), NIC, SCSI, Sound, and USB all running on a single IRQ, IRQ9. I don't know if 9 is significant as the 8bit-16bit bridge w/IRQ2 from the old 286 days or not. But the point is, IRQ problems are a thing of the past.
Just like any technology, each has its place. My grandfather who wants 20Gigs of space to make home movies on his iMac DV or PC workstation shouldn't have to spend $500 for a disk. He doesn't. In fact the space can be had for under $200.
On the other hand, a profession movie maker will want a nice set of striped 10krpm SCSI disks to really be able to read and write all that movie information, these are the workstations that get RAID arrays and are well justified.
I don't see the conflict myself. I would love a SCSI system, but my pocket books doesn't. Right now I'm more than satisfied with my 7.2krpm IDE drive running 11gigs of Reiserfs. It is actually the second fastest filesystem I've ever worked on next to Compaq Dec Unix's Advfs on 5 IBM 18Gig 7.2krpm disks in a RAID5 configuration.
That said nothing comes close to SGI's disk arrays. So much efficient striping allows for over a TB/s sustained transfer rate. But looking at the $$$ it is believable.
First I wanted to point out that the title contains 'MS-SQL' which I initially thought meant MS SQL Server, upon reading the article it was obvious MS Access is what was meant.
MySQL is an excellent database and probably beats MS Access feature for feature. That said it is by no means a powerful database. Its lack of support for nested sub-queries causes many dba's to turn cheek when they see it. What it lacks in features it makes up in speed.
To answer your question directly, asp2php includes database conversion, it will convert your Access to MySQL or other SQLs (see webpage, search freshmeat)
If your database is simple, use MySQL, if you are moving because you would have otherwise moved to MS SQL Server, Oracle, or other larger database, you may want to look at PostgreSQL or even running Oracle or Informix on linux.
Much also depends on how you will access this data, if you will depend heavily on views to abstract the tables to your users, you won't want to use MySQL. If you don't really have a user base it is relatively trivial to work around this in your source. Afterall, last time I heard, slashdot was MySQL driven, all that info and its so darned fast.
This is absolutely not true. Even the latest and greatest 3dfx or nVidia cards do not come even close to the performance of year old SGI Visual Workstations. I was lucky enough to use a simple (only $4000) 320 model. It did real time 3d rendering like nothing I've ever seen. Not to mention even the most complex Photoshop filters(yes the Kia's included) in only a few seconds. I watched as it operated on a 15MB image file and applied filter after filter with the operator not pausing.
:)
It still beats the latest G4's from Mac, which have been Photoship king for sometime. The really impressive piece of these Intel machines was 2 fold. One, they didn't have a BIOS in the traditional since of a PC, instead they had a ARC Console like the Alpha's that run NT. Two, SGI actually rewrite the NT HAL from source code obtained from Microsoft. This was key in the way thier machines worked, and they DID work.
NT doesn't seem quite as horrible when SGI has re-written the Hardware Abstraction Layer and many of the Drivers for the hardware running.
Now on a completely different note: The title of this Slashdot article is "SGI Steps out of the Workstation Market" which is entirely untrue. SGI is stepping out of the Microsoft Windows based workstation market. SGI is selling workstations right now with either MIPS/IRIX or INTEL/Linux as the platform.
One should also realize that SGI's former CEO pushed SGI into this Microsoft direction. This former CEO was picked up by Microsoft after he left SGI in shambles, the new CEO seems to really be getting SGI back to its roots. Notice the moves away from Cray and Visual Workstation markets, much like Steven Jobs did for Apple when he dumped the Newton and other Apple projects that weren't related to core Apple fundamentals and directions.
Just my humble opinions, and a little fact