How about someone set up a few mail servers in China or something and we plug in the e-mail addresses of the spammers and just inundate their emailboxes with...yes, SPAM!
We should also spam their ISPs after a generous warning.
Spam is out of control, and I think everyone here knows that until some universal SMTP replacement or SMTP extension is implemented, spam ain't going away.
Who told Novell what to do? It is now wrong to speculate on what you'd do if you were them? Are you somehow confused by the word "should?"
If you don't want to read this stuff, get the fuck off Slashdot. As customers, we have a right to tell companies what we want. And if they're smart, they'll listen. No one goes to a grocery story and tells customers what to buy, but you bet your goddamned ass customers tell the grocery store what to carry. And you can bet that those with a vested interest in a car dealership, like the owners, decide what to sell.
For the record, I - the original author of the comment - maintained a NetWare 5.1 tree that had over 60 servers for a branch of the US Navy. So I think I'm entitled to a express my opinion about what Novell should do. Of course, they don't have to listen, but then, I don't have to recommend we keep Novell products either.
> If it makes a profit of course they shouldn't open source it.
Not so sure. If it doesn't make a lot of money, imagine the good faith Novell wins from the community by open sourcing something as potentially important and useful as Connector. Novell is a software company that has, in the past, produced proprietary products. GPL stuff is new to them. It would sure be nice to see them set the tone with a "gift" like that.
I've heard people say things like "Novell bought Ximian just for XYZ," where XYZ has been either: Mono, our Exchange 2000 connector, GNOME, Evolution, Red Carpet, "the name,"
There has been speculation all over the internet that Novell bought Ximian for "X." I was just addressing that. Ximian has a host of goods that ought not be lost.
Most of us are happy. Believe it or not, there are still plenty of us who feel that Novell ha[d|s] the best NOS out there, and enriching their arsenal with the awesome UI expertise and reverse engineering experience in Ximian and the power of SUSE will lead to amazing things.
I don't know that you're so far off, but 5 years? I don't see this unfolding in 5 years. I see that as a 10 year drama minimum. IBM buying Red Hat and Novell alone could take a year to go through. Then the rebranding, refining, and marketing...yeah, that's a long term soap opera.
I hate to say it, but unless Novell does amazing things quickly, Longhorn will be a big winner.
- If Novell bought Ximian just for Mono, they should open source the Exchange Connector.
- If Novell intends to still support KDE on SuSE, they should say so quickly.
- Novell should DEFINITELY keep the desktop distro free. This will be key in infiltration and getting techies involved and informed.
- Novell should rebrand everything "LinuxWare" in following their NetWare line.
- NDS on Linux should be a huge priority. A successful, non-piecemeal central authentication system for Linux would be fantastic (yes, I know about PAM + LDAP, etc)
- A Novell client for Linux (even for 5.x and 6.x) should get official support TODAY.
- They should learn from the past, and invest in the desktop. That's where they'll sell this to potential customers, as and end to end solution.
If you installed Longhorn 4051 that was distributed at the MS PDC last week, you'd see that the default install includes "Microsoft IP version 6." A simple ipconfig/all will show you that there appears to be an IPv6 address bound to the NIC.
Where is got the IP from, I have no idea, though. I assume it's the equivalent of the MS 169.254.x.x null IP.
There are MS Office replacements that are "better" than MS Office. Take, for example, Gobe Productive, a real integrated suite that doesn't distinguish between text docs, spreadsheets, and presentations and embeds all types of documents effortlessly. This program is truly innovative and is a departure from the modular, standalone chunks that make up the disjointed but popular MS suite.
A new, innovate program may be attractive, but not imitating a familiar look-and-feel hasn't been shown to work yet either.
Uh...where? On Slashdot? C|net? OSNews, WinSupersite, or Neowin? Puh-lease. Those are IT sites only.
Non-IT execs don't know what Longhorn is, and probably shouldn't. The general populus thinks XP is still brand new. This new stuff is for developers, IT managers, sys admins, and third-party application vendors. No one else cares.
Let's see, Microsoft is in Washington State, not far from Whistler, a popular ski location, and home of the Blackcomb ski lodge. Say, didja notice it's not far from the Yukon, which is one of Canada's northernmost provinces? While in Whistler, why not check out the Longhorn Saloon?
Maybe, if you want some privacy, you'll stay at the Avalon Inn, or tour scenic Whidbey Island.
Codenames are generally not for show, they're just names used around campus to refer to products INTERNALLY. People catch on and use them, but almost no one ever hears about them outside IT folk. Official product names used for marketing are generally reserved for final releases. Linux developers do it too. Perhaps, if you don't understand the naming scheme of "codenames," you should simply ask.
What do you want a screenshot of? KDE? Gnome? There's nothing special about a screenshot of any graphical environment of FreeBSD. It's the same as Linux.
The ISO is free software, you condescending dimwit. Period.
Anyone trying to convince you otherwise has put one over on you, which I don't imagine is that hard. No one is "being an asshole" for sharing this software.
" I am going to talk to Mandrake about implementing an exclusive copyright on the installer and configuration tools for a limitted time and then releasing those under the GPL AFTER the club members have all had a chance to download the distro first."
I think that is a FANTASTIC idea. Until then, though, this thread is pretty much dead. No one is wrong to download at all - but we may be a little impatient.
Your response is basically sound, but we'll have to agree to disagree on one point.
Waiting a week is pointless. I have in no way hurt anyone at all, emotionally or financially. I'll I've done is taken the exclusivity away from the club members, which, really, is little more than bragging rights, which I don't care for or about.
I agree that exercising rights is different from guaranteeing them, and your abortion example is a good one, but while the war is a common cause, this battle is not. Offering a free download of something that is free is not a problem in my eyes under any circumstance. Mandrake needs a better plan than early access to ISOs if they want to secure capital.
It would be nice to have everything work with balance and moderation. Maybe I'm bittered by the real world, but I'll tell you flat out: it doesn't work that way. People, en masse, are not reliable and can be counted on to fuck up the most trivial of things. That's why software has to be so idiot-proof. So my a "very poor character" and "inability to comprehend the bigger picture" are based more on experience than theory. Time to come up with a better plan than reliance on honesty or self-moderation.
Stop being a baby about this. This is the problem with too many open source advocates, you create a license that permits certain actions, and then get upset because people take advantage of said actions.
Anyway, how does me waiting to download 9.2 benefit Mandrake? They distributed their stuff over BitTorrent - it's not even like it's their bandwidth anymore! It's clear you don't understand free software and you don't understand the enterprise.
Free software is a different game than commercial software. You have to know going in, as Mandrake does (or should), that when you play with open source licenses you will have a large number of freebies. Microsoft has them too - they overlook a lot of pirating so that people use their stuff and get the word out.
Mandrake released their ISOs under the GPL. Because of that, there's no such thing as "short sighted and self-destructive." You're very plainly wrong about this - and everyone, including Mandrake themselves knows this. If I WROTE program they are now selling in their boxed versions for which I receive no compensation, am I still wrong to download and use Mandrake 9.2?
People, don't punish yourselves to "feel even." If you want Mandrake, download the ISO torrents. If you want to be a good citizen, please join the club or make a donation or buy it. Either way, don't feel guilty. That's what makes it FREE SOFTWARE.
So club members download the ISOs. How long until someone makes a torrent for the rest of us?
C'mon guys, we're waiting.
PS. Yes, we should all support our favorite distros, but some of us support many projects, some in ways other than just joining their club or buying their boxed releases.
When you say "I'm your customer. You sue me. Fuck you. I'm not your customer anymore or ever again" I say let's be realistic. Are you telling me you're never going to buy a CD again?
In reality, hating the RIAA is easy. But actually boycotting them?
You can't convert NTFS to FAT32 without a 3rd party tool like Partition Magic. Now, I'm not sure about PM > 7.0, but as late as 7 it would still generate errors. Here 's more on that
Don't count on this. The write (and maybe read) drivers will always be "experimental." Why?
Because NTFS specs are locked in a dark closet in near Seattle never to be seen by the evil Linux developers. These developers, fearing for their lives, will never have the guts to deem their NTFS write stable - there will always be a slight chance you'll corrupt your entire disk table - and no one wants their so-called "stable" driver to corrupt people's data.
In NT4, NTFS was at version 1.1, aka NTFS 4.0 (to align with NT4.0). In Windows 2000, it was version 3.0, aka NTFS 5. And in XP, it's version 3.1, also known as NTFS 5. The point is, NTFS is a moving target, so it's unlikely we'll see effective NTFS abilities in Linux anytime soon.
That logic, while sound on the surface, is frankly, a disgrace to US politics. It encourages people to vote for someone purely as a defensive measure.
The system works properly if everyone votes for whom they feel is the best candidate. Curbed voting like this puts less qualified, but more well known, candidates in office (probably why Bush is in office in the first place).
While I get where you're going, you're essentially contributing to the demise of independants or third parties. You're saying "It's no use, so don't bother."
You have to have some faith in democracy, even though it doesn't always work right.
Slashdot Mirror
How about someone set up a few mail servers in China or something and we plug in the e-mail addresses of the spammers and just inundate their emailboxes with ...yes, SPAM!
We should also spam their ISPs after a generous warning.
Spam is out of control, and I think everyone here knows that until some universal SMTP replacement or SMTP extension is implemented, spam ain't going away.
There is no spoon.
b) Why is she using apt and synaptic? They don't even come with Fedora.
uh, yes it does.
God I hope someone mods you down.
Who told Novell what to do? It is now wrong to speculate on what you'd do if you were them? Are you somehow confused by the word "should?"
If you don't want to read this stuff, get the fuck off Slashdot. As customers, we have a right to tell companies what we want. And if they're smart, they'll listen. No one goes to a grocery story and tells customers what to buy, but you bet your goddamned ass customers tell the grocery store what to carry. And you can bet that those with a vested interest in a car dealership, like the owners, decide what to sell.
For the record, I - the original author of the comment - maintained a NetWare 5.1 tree that had over 60 servers for a branch of the US Navy. So I think I'm entitled to a express my opinion about what Novell should do. Of course, they don't have to listen, but then, I don't have to recommend we keep Novell products either.
Now go troll somewhere else please.
> If it makes a profit of course they shouldn't open source it.
Not so sure. If it doesn't make a lot of money, imagine the good faith Novell wins from the community by open sourcing something as potentially important and useful as Connector. Novell is a software company that has, in the past, produced proprietary products. GPL stuff is new to them. It would sure be nice to see them set the tone with a "gift" like that.
I've heard people say things like "Novell bought Ximian just for XYZ," where XYZ has been either: Mono, our Exchange 2000 connector, GNOME, Evolution, Red Carpet, "the name,"
There has been speculation all over the internet that Novell bought Ximian for "X." I was just addressing that. Ximian has a host of goods that ought not be lost.
Most of us are happy. Believe it or not, there are still plenty of us who feel that Novell ha[d|s] the best NOS out there, and enriching their arsenal with the awesome UI expertise and reverse engineering experience in Ximian and the power of SUSE will lead to amazing things.
I don't know that you're so far off, but 5 years? I don't see this unfolding in 5 years. I see that as a 10 year drama minimum. IBM buying Red Hat and Novell alone could take a year to go through. Then the rebranding, refining, and marketing...yeah, that's a long term soap opera.
I hate to say it, but unless Novell does amazing things quickly, Longhorn will be a big winner.
But Blackcomb is another story.
- If Novell bought Ximian just for Mono, they should open source the Exchange Connector.
- If Novell intends to still support KDE on SuSE, they should say so quickly.
- Novell should DEFINITELY keep the desktop distro free. This will be key in infiltration and getting techies involved and informed.
- Novell should rebrand everything "LinuxWare" in following their NetWare line.
- NDS on Linux should be a huge priority. A successful, non-piecemeal central authentication system for Linux would be fantastic (yes, I know about PAM + LDAP, etc)
- A Novell client for Linux (even for 5.x and 6.x) should get official support TODAY.
- They should learn from the past, and invest in the desktop. That's where they'll sell this to potential customers, as and end to end solution.
If you installed Longhorn 4051 that was distributed at the MS PDC last week, you'd see that the default install includes "Microsoft IP version 6." A simple ipconfig /all will show you that there appears to be an IPv6 address bound to the NIC.
Where is got the IP from, I have no idea, though. I assume it's the equivalent of the MS 169.254.x.x null IP.
There are MS Office replacements that are "better" than MS Office. Take, for example, Gobe Productive, a real integrated suite that doesn't distinguish between text docs, spreadsheets, and presentations and embeds all types of documents effortlessly. This program is truly innovative and is a departure from the modular, standalone chunks that make up the disjointed but popular MS suite.
A new, innovate program may be attractive, but not imitating a familiar look-and-feel hasn't been shown to work yet either.
Uh...where? On Slashdot? C|net? OSNews, WinSupersite, or Neowin? Puh-lease. Those are IT sites only.
Non-IT execs don't know what Longhorn is, and probably shouldn't. The general populus thinks XP is still brand new. This new stuff is for developers, IT managers, sys admins, and third-party application vendors. No one else cares.
Let's see, Microsoft is in Washington State, not far from Whistler, a popular ski location, and home of the Blackcomb ski lodge. Say, didja notice it's not far from the Yukon, which is one of Canada's northernmost provinces? While in Whistler, why not check out the Longhorn Saloon?
Maybe, if you want some privacy, you'll stay at the Avalon Inn, or tour scenic Whidbey Island.
Codenames are generally not for show, they're just names used around campus to refer to products INTERNALLY. People catch on and use them, but almost no one ever hears about them outside IT folk. Official product names used for marketing are generally reserved for final releases. Linux developers do it too. Perhaps, if you don't understand the naming scheme of "codenames," you should simply ask.
What do you want a screenshot of? KDE? Gnome? There's nothing special about a screenshot of any graphical environment of FreeBSD. It's the same as Linux.
The ISO is free software, you condescending dimwit. Period.
Anyone trying to convince you otherwise has put one over on you, which I don't imagine is that hard. No one is "being an asshole" for sharing this software.
" I am going to talk to Mandrake about implementing an exclusive copyright on the installer and configuration tools for a limitted time and then releasing those under the GPL AFTER the club members have all had a chance to download the distro first."
I think that is a FANTASTIC idea. Until then, though, this thread is pretty much dead. No one is wrong to download at all - but we may be a little impatient.
Your response is basically sound, but we'll have to agree to disagree on one point.
Waiting a week is pointless. I have in no way hurt anyone at all, emotionally or financially. I'll I've done is taken the exclusivity away from the club members, which, really, is little more than bragging rights, which I don't care for or about.
I agree that exercising rights is different from guaranteeing them, and your abortion example is a good one, but while the war is a common cause, this battle is not. Offering a free download of something that is free is not a problem in my eyes under any circumstance. Mandrake needs a better plan than early access to ISOs if they want to secure capital.
It would be nice to have everything work with balance and moderation. Maybe I'm bittered by the real world, but I'll tell you flat out: it doesn't work that way. People, en masse, are not reliable and can be counted on to fuck up the most trivial of things. That's why software has to be so idiot-proof. So my a "very poor character" and "inability to comprehend the bigger picture" are based more on experience than theory. Time to come up with a better plan than reliance on honesty or self-moderation.
Stop being a baby about this. This is the problem with too many open source advocates, you create a license that permits certain actions, and then get upset because people take advantage of said actions.
Anyway, how does me waiting to download 9.2 benefit Mandrake? They distributed their stuff over BitTorrent - it's not even like it's their bandwidth anymore! It's clear you don't understand free software and you don't understand the enterprise.
Free software is a different game than commercial software. You have to know going in, as Mandrake does (or should), that when you play with open source licenses you will have a large number of freebies. Microsoft has them too - they overlook a lot of pirating so that people use their stuff and get the word out.
Mandrake released their ISOs under the GPL. Because of that, there's no such thing as "short sighted and self-destructive." You're very plainly wrong about this - and everyone, including Mandrake themselves knows this. If I WROTE program they are now selling in their boxed versions for which I receive no compensation, am I still wrong to download and use Mandrake 9.2?
People, don't punish yourselves to "feel even." If you want Mandrake, download the ISO torrents. If you want to be a good citizen, please join the club or make a donation or buy it. Either way, don't feel guilty. That's what makes it FREE SOFTWARE.
So club members download the ISOs. How long until someone makes a torrent for the rest of us?
C'mon guys, we're waiting.
PS. Yes, we should all support our favorite distros, but some of us support many projects, some in ways other than just joining their club or buying their boxed releases.
When you say "I'm your customer. You sue me. Fuck you. I'm not your customer anymore or ever again" I say let's be realistic. Are you telling me you're never going to buy a CD again?
In reality, hating the RIAA is easy. But actually boycotting them?
That, sir, is another ballgame altogether.
You can't convert NTFS to FAT32 without a 3rd party tool like Partition Magic. Now, I'm not sure about PM > 7.0, but as late as 7 it would still generate errors. Here 's more on that
Here's another discussion from some people with alternative methods.
text to get past lameness filter
Don't count on this. The write (and maybe read) drivers will always be "experimental." Why?
Because NTFS specs are locked in a dark closet in near Seattle never to be seen by the evil Linux developers. These developers, fearing for their lives, will never have the guts to deem their NTFS write stable - there will always be a slight chance you'll corrupt your entire disk table - and no one wants their so-called "stable" driver to corrupt people's data.
In NT4, NTFS was at version 1.1, aka NTFS 4.0 (to align with NT4.0). In Windows 2000, it was version 3.0, aka NTFS 5. And in XP, it's version 3.1, also known as NTFS 5. The point is, NTFS is a moving target, so it's unlikely we'll see effective NTFS abilities in Linux anytime soon.
That logic, while sound on the surface, is frankly, a disgrace to US politics. It encourages people to vote for someone purely as a defensive measure.
The system works properly if everyone votes for whom they feel is the best candidate. Curbed voting like this puts less qualified, but more well known, candidates in office (probably why Bush is in office in the first place).
While I get where you're going, you're essentially contributing to the demise of independants or third parties. You're saying "It's no use, so don't bother."
You have to have some faith in democracy, even though it doesn't always work right.
I don't care where it's settled.
I don't care who makes or pays money.
I don't care if I get a discount on domains.
I just want that fucking Sitefinder disabled.
How 'bout you?