Free Software for Politics

Well... by CGP314 · 2003-09-30 06:50 · Score: 3, Funny

I wonder if RMS thought he'd see a US presidential candidate releasing stuff under the GPL when he founded GNU 20 years ago!

That's a gnu-candidate thank you.

Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 06:53 · Score: 0

and that was GNU/20 years and GNU/3 days ago.
Re:Well... by E_elven · 2003-09-30 07:11 · Score: 0, Troll

I think GNU/RMS assumed HE would be a GNU/US Presidential candidate at this point.

--
Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
Re:Well... by AppyPappy · 2003-09-30 07:38 · Score: 1

Wesley Clark is cuter and has a really nice uniform. Does Dean have a cool uniform? If Clark's parties are better, I'm voting for him.

--
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
Re:Well... by Zeinfeld · 2003-09-30 08:11 · Score: 5, Insightful

Wesley Clark is cuter and has a really nice uniform. Does Dean have a cool uniform? If Clark's parties are better, I'm voting for him
Almost but not quite as irrelevant as the brand of Web server the candidate runs. I still think that Bush is going to really regret doing that stupid Top Gun stunt next November. It isn;t the uniform, its the way you wear it.
I see one big issue for the Open Source Community in the next election and it is not promoting open source. The big issue is PATENTS and Dean is at least listening to the right people here - Larry Lessig.
We don't want much here, we just want the USPTO to actually apply in practice the principles that it claims to apply.
Novel should mean novel, do something on the Internet that has been done for 20 years is not novel.
Prior review get rid of the secrecy in the process, all applications to be subject to a one year protest period, same as the Europeans do
You have to invent it there are a ridiculous number of speculative patents filled where the inventor has actually invented nothing. Typical cases are in the genetics field where the first person to sequience a gene often files a patent that claims the use of the gene to solve every imaginable ailment before the 'inventor' knows anything about what the gene does
Anyone care to claim a bigger priority? This is a platform that everyone can agree on from Redmond WA to Cambridge MA.

--
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Re:Well... by EugeneK · 2003-09-30 08:29 · Score: 1

GNU/score and 7 years ago our forefathers brought forth ...etc...
Re:Well... by rifter · 2003-09-30 08:40 · Score: 4, Interesting

Meanwhile, it appears that Dean wisely changed from windows 2000 to freebsd whereas Clark is using Linux. Which will win? :)

And of course the Evil One is running Windows. Surprise surprise!

Let's hope the best free software candidate wins!
Re:Well... by MoneyT · 2003-09-30 09:05 · Score: 1

You know, not to nitpick, but that "Top Gun stunt" was nothing more than following regs. You get into the cockpit of that plane, you are going to wear a flight suit. Period.

--
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:24 · Score: 0

You get into the cockpit of that plane, you are going to wear a flight suit. Period.
I think the issue is that the stunt was a political show that delayed the carrier from returning home from duty. Fine, the regs say you must wear the suit. But what was he doing in the cockpit in the first place?
Re:Well... by gaijin99 · 2003-09-30 09:43 · Score: 1

You know, not to nitpick, but that "Top Gun stunt" was nothing more than following regs. You get into the cockpit of that plane, you are going to wear a flight suit. Period.

True 'nuff, but the "Top Gun Stunt" wasn't wearing the flight suit, it was pretending that he was a pilot and flying the plane at all. Then lying about why he did it (remember, he claimed that the carrier was too far away for him to have done what his aids did and taken a helicoptor. In fact the plane was less than 20 miles off the coast of California.)

--
"Mission Accomplished" -- George W. Bush May 1, 2003
Re:Well... by pjt48108 · 2003-09-30 09:47 · Score: 1

"Does Dean have a cool uniform?"

Well, yes, as a matter of fact, he does:

a white lab coat, as he was a medical doctor prior to entering politics.

--
Mmmmmm... Bold, yet refreshing!
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:54 · Score: 0

Not to mention the fact that he delayed the troops return to their families by staging the whole thing. And of course not to mention that since he declared the war "over" on that day, more of our troops have than during the "war". The man is a scoundrel, no two ways about it.
Re:Well... by MoneyT · 2003-09-30 10:22 · Score: 1

a) The troops were not delayed, do some reading up on the matter. They were not scheduled to arrive until later in the week, but favorable conditions allowed them to arrive ahead of time.

b) he did not declare the war over, he declared an end to "major combat operations" and there is a difference. The end of major combat operations means most of the planes and big ships are going home and the primary actions of the military are now defensive as opposed to offensive. Soldiers have been dying over there since the end of GW I, but you don't see people crying over them do you?

--
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Re:Well... by MoneyT · 2003-09-30 10:25 · Score: 1

Well, to start with, the delay was really no delay at all given that the carrier was ahead of schedule and most likely would have just spent the extra day off the coast.

Second, given the nature of the plane, the only place the president coul dhave been was in the cockpit.

--
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Re:Well... by HungWeiLo · 2003-09-30 10:26 · Score: 1

And to add on to what gaijin has already said, this "stunt" was requested by the White House staff, which cost some astronomical sum (I heard in the single-digit millions?) to have to startup the carrier's engines and move it away from the shore so that the aircraft can do its landing.

--
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
Re:Well... by jamesmrankinjr · 2003-09-30 10:42 · Score: 1

I still think that Bush is going to really regret doing that stupid Top Gun stunt next November.
No WMD have been found, the economy's still not creating jobs, and you think the President's biggest problem is that he took a joy ride in a government airplane?
Peace be with you,
-jimbo

--
XML Tools for Mac OS X
Re:Well... by MoneyT · 2003-09-30 10:51 · Score: 1

Any actual links to evidence on that? The carrier was comming in, it had not yet arrived, so there would be no going back. As for the difference in costs as opposed to riding marine one in. Probably negligable.

--
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Re:Well... by bcboy · 2003-09-30 10:52 · Score: 1

> a) The troops were not delayed, do some reading up on the matter. They were not scheduled to arrive until later in the week, but favorable conditions allowed them to arrive ahead of time.

You know, this argument makes no sense. Their scheduled arrival time is irrelevant to whether they were made to wait for the staging of this event.
Re:Well... by MoneyT · 2003-09-30 11:05 · Score: 1

sure it does. If the dock is not ready to recieve them, they would have spent their time sitting off the coast waiting anyways. And even if it was ready to recieve them, they still aren't off duty until the day they were scheduled to be.

--
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Re:Well... by Zeinfeld · 2003-09-30 11:56 · Score: 1

No WMD have been found, the economy's still not creating jobs, and you think the President's biggest problem is that he took a joy ride in a government airplane?
I see it as a metaphor for a commander in chief who was from start to finish a showboat. military types don't like showboats.
Of course the top gun stunt would not have mattered much if the Iraq war had not turned sour, if the economy was not in the tank, if the budget deficit was not pushing $600 billion. But it was hubris and it was a hostage to fortune.
Dukakis got slated for taking a ride in that tank. The topgun stunt was Bush's equivalent, a self inflicted PR disaster.
The criticism of the Iraq war that nobody seems to have an argument against is the claim that the Bushies had no post-invasion planning. They were warned repeatedly that the occupation would not be the cakewalk that they had predicted and planned for. 'Mission Acomplished' my ass.
So far we have spent $80 billion on the invasion and there is a supplemental for a further $87 billion before Congress - much of which is in effect aleady spent. It does not look likely that the occupation will be over for at least another 5 years leaving a total bill of at least $400 billion. If we get out before that it will be because we have allowed the Kurds to effectively declare autonomy in the north, tolerate a pro-Iranian shia Mulahtocracy in the south and heaven help us in the middle.

--
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Re:Well... by Zeinfeld · 2003-09-30 12:06 · Score: 1

You know, not to nitpick, but that "Top Gun stunt" was nothing more than following regs. You get into the cockpit of that plane, you are going to wear a flight suit. Period.
Which is why any other President would have used a helicopter. The carrier was within range at the time of the stunt.
Bush is the first person with the title President of the US to wear a military uniform while in office. There is a reason for that that goes right back to the founding of the republic. The founders were even more keen on the idea of separating the military and politics than separation of church and state. They did not want a Cromwellian 'protectorate'.
Gen Washington made it a point never to wear his military uniform after he was elected president. The republic was to be firmly under civilian control.
Of course Bush does not understand any of that so he broke one of the most important traditions of the republic for the sake of a phot-opportunity.
In trying to look big Bush ended up looking small.

--
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Re:Well... by jxs2151 · 2003-09-30 13:19 · Score: 1

...it was pretending that he was a pilot
I know this might not fit into your myopia but he is a pilot. Ridicule his service if you want but the man did learn to fly a jet.
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 13:24 · Score: 0

Second, given the nature of the plane, the only place the president coul dhave been was in the cockpit.
Are you being stupid, or merely disingenious?
Re:Well... by ONOIML8 · 2003-09-30 14:51 · Score: 1

"And of course the Evil One is running Windows"

OMFG!!! When did Hillary announce she is running?

--
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Re:Well... by majorflaw · 2003-09-30 15:24 · Score: 1

You are absolutely correct, he is a pilot. I would guess that he and his father are the only two Presidents qualified as pilots. But we taxpayers paid to make hime a pilot in the Texas Reserve, as an alternative to going to Vietnam, which favor he immediately repaid by going*awol*-- For a year and a half, before someone noticed he was missing. He had his opportunity to serve, and, just like Clinton, he chose not to get his ass blown off in Vietnam. I fully understand both of their decisions, however I give Clinton credit for admitting he was a pussy whereas Bush now stands with warriors, a platform on which he in no way deserves. Sometimes I am amazed that someone who is so uncurious, poorly educated, and whose greatest accomplishment was stopping drinking at age 40 got himself taken seriously as a candidate. Were you given 40 years to grow up. I know that I was working a long time before I turned 40. Why, because I needed the fsucking money. I didn't have a trust fund to protect me from work. And I think that there is value in work, earning something must be more rewarding than simply having it given to you. Right now, Bush is having to work harder than he ever did in his life. I'm afraid that both he and we will suffer for it.
(OK, back to Decaf)
Re:Well... by Rooktoven · 2003-09-30 15:26 · Score: 1

and the man did go awol for the last full year of his national guard stint, even though it was a cushy tour of duty.for rich boys in Texas who didn't want to wet their pants in Vietnam,

He is a cowardly braggart who revels in risking others lives for his own political gain-- most notably by starting wars under false pretenses.

He is quite possibly also an accessory to treason if he knew about the outing of a CIA operative. He is the worst president in american history.

--

Acquiescence leads to obliteration
Re:Well... by Rooktoven · 2003-09-30 15:30 · Score: 1

The ship was ordered turned around so when he landed San Diego wouldn't be visible in the background. It was a disingenuous stunt for a scripted for a distasteful fuck-head's benefit.

--

Acquiescence leads to obliteration
Re:Well... by whatch+durrin · 2003-09-30 16:10 · Score: 1

Sometimes I am amazed that someone who is so uncurious, poorly educated, and whose greatest accomplishment was stopping drinking at age 40 got himself taken seriously as a candidate.
I'll assume you're a Clinton fan. If you want to get technical about things, the major difference between Bush and Clinton is that Clinton was good at bullshitting, and you obviously took the bait. He was uber-politician and maybe uber-salesman, but not uber-intelligent. After all, who risks a major political scandal by getting a BJ from an intern in the White House - the intelligent guy, or the moron? I'm not talking morals here, but utter stupidity.
I know that I was working a long time before I turned 40.
IIRC, Bush worked in some oil business and was owner of the Texas Rangers baseball team. I don't know his entire work history (which I'm sure you'll share), but he obviously did work.

--
***
Radio Shack. You've got questions...we've got blank stares(TM).
Re:Well... by MoneyT · 2003-09-30 18:43 · Score: 1

Source?

--
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Re:Well... by MoneyT · 2003-09-30 18:52 · Score: 1

What would you call the area of a plane in which the pilots and crew are located?

--
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Re:Well... by jxs2151 · 2003-10-01 01:24 · Score: 1

...poorly educated...
Not sure about you, but where I come from an MBA from Harvard is not "poorly educated". Like the last poster, your propaganda-induced myopia allows you to completely disregard the truth to give you self satisfaction about your feelings. I am sure that you consider yourself an honest truth-seeker but you allow your hatred for someone you disagree with to skew your mind so badly that you are willing to completely ignore the truth.
Re:Well... by jxs2151 · 2003-10-01 01:31 · Score: 1

Your hatred is cancerous. Your lack of capitalization of the word "American" tells me all I need to know about you - Fruedian slip Mr. America Hater?
Re:Well... by Sgt_Jake · 2003-10-01 02:05 · Score: 1

Bush is the first person with the title President of the US to wear a military uniform while in office

That may be true but I think you're taking it out of context - A flight suit is designed in part to help the human body withstand g-forces and cold temperatures, fire retardant, etc. Would you have preferred that he have a flight suit designed custom or just use one the ship had? He wasn't wearing it to present himself as a member of the military, he was doing it because it's regulation, and for safety.

If your problem is with him taking a ride on a fighter at tax payers money, that's one thing. If your problem is that he's more of a draft dodger that got special privilege from the very same military he hid from, that's something too. But if your problem is his fashion sense or adherence to tradition (one he probably didn't know about)... well, that's just silly. You should be far more concerned with his actions than his social and political incompetence.

[I'm not a democrat either... ]
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 03:08 · Score: 0

Most of the MBA's that I have met who are just MBA's are, from my point of view, poorly educated. Those who have tacked on an MBA to other degrees so that they can be taken more seriously in business get more respect. My father actually considered getting a Harvard MBA not all that long ago, while he was between jobs, and I have little doubt that he would have acquired it easily. He wanted the MBA because his perception was that it was hard to be taken seriously by anyone in the business world without one. I believe that probably is actually the case, but my father is not really the best example since his plans for an MBA were scrapped when he was promptly head-hunted by a biotech company.
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 06:23 · Score: 0

You have to invent it

I would agree in principle, and there are indeed speculative patents, but as a practical matter:

1. USPTO doesn't claim this, as you suggest. I'm pretty sure there is no statutory requirement for reduction to practice.

2. Nor do patent examiners ever take the time to look at prototypes or demonstrations, as far as I'm aware. Given that they are overworked in the first place, I don't see this in the cards.

3. Key to any patent is that you have to disclose how the device works. If you patent something that you haven't actually tested, you have the risk that the teaching in your patent is wrong, and that someone else will figure out the right way, and your patent won't apply to them. You will have wasted your time and money. So at least there is a financial disincentive for speculative patents.

On another note, you left out the principle of non-obviousness, which also seems to be very lax in practice.
Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 12:45 · Score: 0

What would you call the area of a plane in which the pilots and crew are located?
Relevance?

and meanwhile... by devphaeton · 2003-09-30 06:51 · Score: 0, Offtopic

We're talking about web-software, and the advertisement is:

Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, adfu-admin@sf.vasoftware.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.

Apache/1.3.27 Server at sc8-adfu-image1.osdn.com Port 80

--

do() || do_not(); // try();

Re:and meanwhile... by stevesliva · 2003-09-30 06:55 · Score: 0, Offtopic

What are you talking about?
Naming a post "and meanwhile" just begs to be moderated offtopic, espeially when I have no idea what you're refering to.

--
Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts

More canidates should do this by deanj · 2003-09-30 06:51 · Score: 4, Interesting

More candidates should do this. Frankly, I'd be interesting in hearing more about General Clarke's ideas on time travel. (Follow the link... he actually talks about this. I kid you not).

Re:More canidates should do this by Fnkmaster · 2003-09-30 06:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

And there's nothing wrong with a candidate with vision. I'm a bit disappointed in Professor Melnick's quote in that article. I spent enough time studying physics at Harvard to know never to spout off about what we know will never be impossible.

We know that faster-than-light travel is contrary to our current best effort at producing a consistent body of laws to describe nature, but those laws are based on observations accurate within certain parameters and realms. But we certainly can't say what's really dictated by some magical immutable laws of physics.
Re:More canidates should do this by UrgleHoth · 2003-09-30 06:57 · Score: 2, Funny

Especially John Sununu. They could have the slogan If you GNU Sununu like I GNU Sununu...

--

Dogma - "let's just say we'd like to avoid any empirical entanglements."
Re:More canidates should do this by UrgleHoth · 2003-09-30 07:01 · Score: 1

Before I get a comment on it, Yeah, I know he's not a presidential candidate, but as a senator, he does have to campaign.

--

Dogma - "let's just say we'd like to avoid any empirical entanglements."
Re:More canidates should do this by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:03 · Score: 0

A body can't have a speed faster than light, however that does not mean that you cannot get from point a to point b faster than light would.

You just have to find a shortcut. Science may be able to help us find or make these shortcuts.
Re:More canidates should do this by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:05 · Score: 0

Sure, but it's pretty much offtopic isn't it.
Re:More canidates should do this by thedillybar · 2003-09-30 07:06 · Score: 1

I agree. By doing this, he's probably going to please more people than he's going to annoy (most people not being affect either way). So, maybe he's just trying to win some open source votes, but since when has the Open Source Community had any part in lobbying? Maybe this is a good start. After all, our world is controlled by the economy and politics.

I haven't done my research on Dean or anyone else, but maybe this is a good opportunity?

We should recognize this and try to get an edge (or at least keep up!).
Re:More canidates should do this by geoffspear · 2003-09-30 07:16 · Score: 2, Funny

Are you writing a gossip column or a slashdot comment?

--
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
Re:More canidates should do this by Stargoat · 2003-09-30 07:17 · Score: 1

The Root Author is a Republican who reads Drudge, but doesn't read the article.
Clark is actually talking about Faster Than Light travel. And it's good we have a presidential candidate who is smart enough to understand the implications of said.
Clark is a great man and will be a great President.

--
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
Re:More canidates should do this by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:18 · Score: 0

Well I'm glad he's useful for a joke on Slashdot, because thats about all he's good for.
Re:More canidates should do this by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:20 · Score: 0

Maybe you should learn to spell Clark's name correctly.
Re:More canidates should do this by fucksl4shd0t · 2003-09-30 07:20 · Score: 1

So, maybe he's just trying to win some open source votes, but since when has the Open Source Community had any part in lobbying?
It's all in the demographics, baby. You see, Free Software nuts like us are in our own demographic now. I wouldn't be surprised if political strategists are looking at picking up the free software vote the same way they look at picking up the black vote, or the young vote, or whatever.

--
Like what I said? You might like my music
Re:More canidates should do this by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:22 · Score: 0

Perhaps if you understood the implications of FTL-travel better yourself, you'd realize that time travel is exactly one of those.
Re:More canidates should do this by NaugaHunter · 2003-09-30 07:23 · Score: 4, Funny

Clark is a great man and will be a great President.

Maybe I've watched too much Babylon 5, but I just can't get read the phrase 'President Clark' without looking around for Nightwatch.

--
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
Re:More canidates should do this by The+Matrix+Has+Me · 2003-09-30 07:24 · Score: 5, Funny

And there's nothing wrong with a candidate with vision.

How can he have vision about travelling faster than the speed of light? Isn't that a contradiction?
Re:More canidates should do this by RobotRunAmok · 2003-09-30 07:33 · Score: 1

Clark is a great man and will be a great President.

President?! He won't be able to keep his foot out of his mouth long enough to win the Democratic nomination. Or the Republican nomination. Or whatever party he's a member of, I forget. Do you know?
Re:More canidates should do this by Gleef · 2003-09-30 07:36 · Score: 1

Thankfully, this Clark has a single, well-defined chin.

--

----
Open mind, insert foot.
Re:More canidates should do this by novakane007 · 2003-09-30 07:36 · Score: 1

I really like this quote from the article.
"Some goals may take a lifetime to reach," he said. "We need to set those goals now. We need to re-dedicate ourselves to science, engineering and technology in this country."
Amen! Imagine what America could acheive with a $400 billion space and technology budget. Instead it's spent on building supersonic jets that can carpet an area with dirty bombs. Next generation technology to fight enemies that are 2 generations behind? WHY?

--

WURD!!
Re:More canidates should do this by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:38 · Score: 0

why? the parent fails to grasp the distinction between time travel and travelling faster than the speed of light (time-dilation, aside).
Re:More canidates should do this by deanj · 2003-09-30 07:51 · Score: 1

Actually, I read the wired home page, which linked to the article, and if YOU had read the whole thing, says:
Some scientists say that FTL travel therefore implies time travel, or being able to travel to the future or the past.

Apparently, YOU should read the article before shooting off your mouth, eh?
Re:More canidates should do this by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:14 · Score: 0

On the other news, Clark has prepared a new bill. When passed by Congress, it will remove Newton third law. "It was always my oppinion that tis law is unconstitutional. No reaction should be allowed to opposit the forces of progress..." said Clark.
Re:More canidates should do this by rodgerd · 2003-09-30 08:19 · Score: 1

"When an elderly and distinguished scientist says something is possible, he is almost certainly correct. When an elderly and distinguished scientist says something is impossible, he is almost certainly wrong."

(Apologies to Asimov for the misrendering).
Re:More canidates should do this by gbulmash · 2003-09-30 08:20 · Score: 1

What Harvard did the debunking physicist come from? Harvard, Kansas?
First, never talk in absolutes about theory.
Second, Clark didn't say that we'll accellerate a mass to c+1, just that we'll travel faster than light. Any Sci-Fi fan knows 3-4 ideas for FTL that don't involve accellerating a mass beyond c.
They're all theoretical or even just imaginary, but the speed limit of c is still theoretical until we get better at accelerating our masses.
The criticisms of Clark sound like a physicist playing politics, and being good at neither.
Greg

--
Start a happiness pandemic
Re:More canidates should do this by Frequanaut · 2003-09-30 08:22 · Score: 1

President?! He won't be able to keep his foot out of his mouth long enough to win the Democratic nomination. Or the Republican nomination. Or whatever party he's a member of

Watch Fox News much?
Re:More canidates should do this by micromoog · 2003-09-30 08:26 · Score: 2, Funny

First, never talk in absolutes about theory.
I believe you just did.
Re:More canidates should do this by rifter · 2003-09-30 08:53 · Score: 1

Well I'm glad he's useful for a joke on Slashdot, because thats about all he's good for.

He used to be good for a joke on late night TV. Oh how the mighty have fallen....
Re:More canidates should do this by rifter · 2003-09-30 08:56 · Score: 1

I haven't done my research on Dean or anyone else, but maybe this is a good opportunity?

I found the cnn writeup on the candidates helpful for a start. They have nice shiny graphs! Oooh nice shiny graaaaphs.....

But seriously, they do link to the candidates' websites as well. Get informed! As Chris Rock said, "Get your learn on!"
Re:More canidates should do this by Theatetus · 2003-09-30 08:57 · Score: 1

distinction between time travel and travelling faster than the speed of light (time-dilation, aside).

Ummm.... there's not much way to "aside" the time-dilation here; that's the whole point.

The closer your velocity (relative to mine) gets to c, the slower your clock (relative to mine) runs (and the shorter your ruler gets, too... heh heh...).

If you were actually to travel at c (no longer relative to me, since you would then be moving at c for any frame of reference), your clock would appear to me to stop, and your ruler would be infinitesimally thin.

Assuming some sort of continuity of transluminal physics, it's tempting to imagine that speeding up "faster than c" (a phrase which in the Maxwell/Lorenz/Einstein worldview currently doesn't have much meaning) would make your clock run backwards.

Note that this is not the "back to the future" idea of waking up tomorrow in 1985. Rather, you yourself would "go backwards" and arrive younger than when you left, though at a much much much much later time in the outside world.

Now, there's a different theory that shows how closed time-like loops are possible in a rotating universe, but it relies on GR (the above only relies on SR). So, if the angular momentum of the universe is not 0, "time travel" already happens.

--
All's true that is mistrusted
Re:More canidates should do this by rifter · 2003-09-30 08:58 · Score: 1

"First, never talk in absolutes about theory."

I believe you just did.

Damn you, micromoog! Don't you know that all generalizations are false?! :P
Re:More canidates should do this by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:03 · Score: 1, Informative

There has been some work in producing communications channels by entangling electrons. Likewise, the natural forces (such as gravity and weak electron forces) have been descibed as moving faster than light. More recent studies have attempted to measure the speed of such force propogation with varying degrees of success.

Furthermore, there is a big gray area in quantum physics that describes the motion of electrons. That motion has been described in many ways. Mathematically, it is represented by complex numbers. I have heard thoughts on the physical behavior that describe this motion to be "dimensional folding", "space-time warping", faster-than-light movement, teleportation (which may turn out to be equivalent to faster-than-light movement), or even time travel.
Re:More canidates should do this by jason0000042 · 2003-09-30 09:18 · Score: 1

Next generation technology to fight enemies that are 2 generations behind? WHY?

I can give you three reasons, and they're all money.

--
i don't like my old sig.
Re:More canidates should do this by kavau · 2003-09-30 09:30 · Score: 1

From the article: Gary Melnick, a senior astrophysicist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, said Clark's faith in the possibility of faster-than-light (FTL) travel was "probably based more on his imagination than on physics."
Melnick's quote seems to be very accurate. It may or may not happen that humanity will someday find a way to cheat special relativity, and discover faster-than-light travel. But unless Clarke spent most his life studying the theories of Hawking et al. (and I think it's a safe bet he hasn't, except maybe for reading 'The Universe in a Nutshell), it's safe to assume that Clarke has not the slightest clue how to achieve this. But he nevertheless is convinced that it will happen. Hence his faith is based entirely on imagination...
However, imagination is not always wrong. Only most of the time. Who knows what the future has in store...
Re:More canidates should do this by InfoVore · 2003-09-30 09:43 · Score: 1

Maybe I've watched too much Babylon 5, but I just can't get read the phrase 'President Clark' without looking around for Nightwatch.
Glad I'm not the only one who flashed on that when I heard he was running.
I wonder what his position on manned missions to Mars is? Archeology? Psychic Research?
Also, if anybody ever sees President Clark doodling the words 'Scorched Earth' then we are screwed.

--
"These laws they're passing won't even compile anymore, let alone execute." - anon
Re:More canidates should do this by Ray+Radlein · 2003-09-30 10:29 · Score: 1

(Apologies to Asimov for the misrendering).
Especially since it was Arthur C. Clarke who said that.
Re:More canidates should do this by d3faultus3r · 2003-09-30 11:43 · Score: 1

Ok, so now we're a crucial demographic. I say we make RMS run in the California recall election.

--
read my blog
musings on politics and technol
Re:More canidates should do this by d3faultus3r · 2003-09-30 11:45 · Score: 1

I can give you a three step business plan.
1. bomb third world country into oblivion
2. ???
3. profit

--
read my blog
musings on politics and technol
Re:More canidates should do this by RobotRunAmok · 2003-09-30 11:51 · Score: 1

Watch Fox News much?

No. Do you? Should I? What's your point?
Re:More canidates should do this by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 14:49 · Score: 0

Imagine what America could acheive with a $400 billion space and technology budget. Instead it's spent on building supersonic jets that can carpet an area with dirty bombs. Next generation technology to fight enemies that are 2 generations behind? WHY?

1. America has a huge technology budget. Private R&D numbers are enormous. I fail to see the need for public R&D, including weapons or for whatever you want to waste it on.

2. We don't even really need next generation crap to kill our enemies. Bomblets and B-52s do nicely. The only reason we have advanced weapons is to avoid killing (to a large degree) non-military targets/people. Good old-fashioned blockbuster bombs and B-52s would have killed Iraqi troops just as effectively as smart bombs, but the smart bombs let a lot more innocent people escape with their lives. I find that to be comforting. I suspect that the ungrateful Iraqi camel jockeys would find that to be the case as well if any of them had more than one jihad-addled muslim monkey brain cell.
Re:More canidates should do this by peachpuff · 2003-09-30 18:27 · Score: 1

<sarcasm>
That crazy Clark! Let's have Bush explain the Theory of Relativity to him.
</sarcasm>

Seriously, why does everyone who repeats this story put it in terms of time travel? He talks about traveling faster than light.

Sure, they're linked by current theory, but current theory says they're not possible. Someone who denies current theory by saying faster-than-light travel is possible might not think there's a connection to time travel.

It would make more sense to repeat his words as he said them, but I guess "time travel" sounds crazier.

--
-- . . ramblin' . . .

Payback by _Sharp'r_ · 2003-09-30 06:51 · Score: 0, Flamebait

So this is Dean's payback to the Blog community for supporting him all this time?

Come on Howard... we were looking for some cash in government bennies, not something from sourceforge....

Politicians: The ultimate Vaporware....

--
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.

Wouldn't it now be... by Eberlin · 2003-09-30 06:51 · Score: 3, Funny

GNU/Howard Dean, then?

Shhhh, don't tell Stallman or we'll never hear the end of it!

Re:Wouldn't it now be... by Keck · 2003-09-30 07:18 · Score: 3, Funny

If he wins, will it become the GNUnited States?
or GNUSA?

--
A computer without Microsoft is like ice cream without ketchup.
Re:Wouldn't it now be... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:26 · Score: 0

GNU/Booooooooooooo! :-)
Re:Wouldn't it now be... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:38 · Score: 0

Feeding a Flame War

It'll be a bit tough if he ever contends with Kongress and an overwhelming Kapitalist society.

Will he have vim or will he be emaciated?
Re:Wouldn't it now be... by Sanga · 2003-09-30 08:40 · Score: 1

I knew it ...

GNU's not American

It was a communist plot after all ;-)
Re:Wouldn't it now be... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:14 · Score: 0

Jesus Christ, how many dozen "GNU/jokes" can people make in a single story?
Re:Wouldn't it now be... by RTMFD · 2003-09-30 09:22 · Score: 1

No, it will be the GNU/USSR... :)
Re:Wouldn't it now be... by Fiver-rah · 2003-09-30 10:22 · Score: 1

uGnited states, actually.

--
Read Bujold. Free (as in

Hello Geeks of America by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 06:52 · Score: 0

"vote for me. i'm cool yo."

Dean really needs to appear in Interviews on /. by stevesliva · 2003-09-30 06:53 · Score: 5, Interesting

There was a call for this before... Slashdot and Dean staff, are you listening?

--
Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts

Re:Dean really needs to appear in Interviews on /. by syphax · 2003-09-30 07:15 · Score: 4, Interesting

I had asked my good friend, who works on the campaign, about this last time; he said Dean's a busy dude, and after the Lessig blog had some other constituencies to cover before he'd have a chance to circle back.

And while it'd be cool if he did an interview, I don't think he exactly *needs* to...

--
Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
Re:Dean really needs to appear in Interviews on /. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:37 · Score: 1, Insightful

Stay away, Howard. You can't win on Slashdot:

If he comes out against DRM/RIAA etc, his opponents will nail him as anti-business.

If he comes out *for* DRM/RIAA, you guys will nail him as here and generate plenty of juicy quotes for his opponents to use.
Re:Dean really needs to appear in Interviews on /. by Pave+Low · 2003-09-30 07:37 · Score: 1, Flamebait

What good does an interview on Slashdot do? It seems to me that he already has the vote (those that can) of most slashbots.
The bulk of this crowd is representative of the core of his support: upper-middle class, white, educated, young angry Bush Haters. An interview here will just be preaching to the choir, tossing softball questions to be moderated up, and be a general circle-jerk.

--
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
Re:Dean really needs to appear in Interviews on /. by Pave+Low · 2003-09-30 07:58 · Score: 1

whoever modded my parent comment as "Flamebait" just proved my point.

--
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
Re:Dean really needs to appear in Interviews on /. by stevesliva · 2003-09-30 07:59 · Score: 1

I tend to agree, because I sure as hell wouldn't want to do it in his shoes, but politicians are supposed to be able to thread their way through thornier issues than DRM. Like war.

--
Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts
Re:Dean really needs to appear in Interviews on /. by Samus · 2003-09-30 08:27 · Score: 1

I think your tone is rather inflamatory. Calling readers slashbots and talking about circle jerks is not something normally done in polite conversation. You could have easily rephrased your post in such a way as to get positive moderations but you chose not to. Deal with it.

--
In Republican America phones tap you.
Re:Dean really needs to appear in Interviews on /. by TrentC · 2003-09-30 09:49 · Score: 1

The bulk of this crowd is representative of the core of his support: upper-middle class, white, educated, young angry Bush Haters. An interview here will just be preaching to the choir, tossing softball questions to be moderated up,

Yes, and that in and of itself is typical of candidates for President.

Candidates do two types of appearances: One for the faithful, to drum up volunteers and other support (especially the kind that says "In God We Trust", and I'm not talking about hymnals) and the other for the swing voters, the ones that might vote for the candidate. but aren't sure. Most candidates won't waste their effort on constiuencies or districts that they're never going to any votes from.

Jay (=
Re:Dean really needs to appear in Interviews on /. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 14:20 · Score: 0

The bulk of this crowd is representative of the core of his support: upper-middle class, white, educated, young angry Bush Haters.

You must read a different /. to me. I never encounter so many Bush supporters anywhere, as I do on slashdot. Your post only proves my point ;)
Re:Dean really needs to appear in Interviews on /. by whatch+durrin · 2003-09-30 16:33 · Score: 1

Actually, Pave Low is pretty accurate. His Flaimbate mod and your comment prove that quite clearly.
Your comment (and Pave Low's moderation) also demonstrate how utterly fucking hypocritical most Slashdotters are when moderating. If the tables were turned, and he were saying the same thing WRT Bush he would have been instantly modded up.

--
***
Radio Shack. You've got questions...we've got blank stares(TM).
Re:Dean really needs to appear in Interviews on /. by Samus · 2003-10-01 06:42 · Score: 1

Actually I don't think there is anything wrong with the ideas in his post. Its the way he tried to convey the ideas. An example: There are polite ways to describe someones african lineage and many impolite ways. Pave Low chose an impolite way to convey his message. Of course somebody should mod this whole thread off topic but I guess it doesn't really matter when the story is this old.

--
In Republican America phones tap you.

I am impressed by Chilltowner · 2003-09-30 06:53 · Score: 5, Insightful

Although I'm politically more with Kucinich, I really admire the way Dean has taken the lead with using novel forms of communications technology. Everything he's done, from meetups to blogging to soliciting individual donations on the internet shows a kind of grasp of the technology that really reflects well on him (or, at least, his staff). The latest news is pretty much in line with that behavior.

It does beg the question--will a Dean presidency be geek friendly? Will it turn back the DMCA and scale back software patents? I'd like to know more, but I'm optimistic for the first time in a long time.

Re:I am impressed by TrekCycling · 2003-09-30 06:57 · Score: 1

That's a good point. Slashdot should try to line Dean up for one of their famous interviews, in light of this. Then maybe we could see where he stood on geek issues like the GPL, patents, etc.
Re:I am impressed by Chilltowner · 2003-09-30 07:03 · Score: 1

I second that. If he's savvy enough to release under the GPL, I'd bet my white hat that someone on his staff is reading slashdot as religiously as the rest of us. Taco? Can we interview Howard Dean? Please?
Re:I am impressed by squarooticus · 2003-09-30 07:10 · Score: 2, Insightful

It does beg the question--will a Dean presidency be geek friendly?

Ignoring the misuse of the phrase "beg[ging] the question" for the moment...

A related question is whether Dean will roll back the high tax rates that disproportionately confiscate the earnings of geeks, who have a median income significantly higher than the national average.

Just because Dean's campaign promotes GPL'ed software doesn't mean he's going to fight for your interests: at most this is just pandering to the web-connected crowd, but is more likely just someone's pet project that got blown out of proportion.

--
[ home ]
Re:I am impressed by SEWilco · 2003-09-30 07:13 · Score: 5, Funny

Slashdot should try to line Dean up for one of their famous interviews
Isn't it enough that we've already lined him up for a slashdotting?
Re:I am impressed by RobotRunAmok · 2003-09-30 07:14 · Score: 1, Insightful

It does beg the question--will a Dean presidency be geek friendly?

We'll never know.
Re:I am impressed by E_elven · 2003-09-30 07:15 · Score: 1

Well, A) *HE* is probably not releasing anything himself and B) it's probably an assistant's idea, but it's still nice to see.

--
Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
Re:I am impressed by hondo77 · 2003-09-30 07:21 · Score: 1

Ignoring the misuse of the phrase "beg[ging] the question" for the moment...
No need to.

--
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
Re:I am impressed by CaptainTux · 2003-09-30 07:24 · Score: 1

Then maybe we could see where he stood on geek issues like the GPL, patents, etc.
Or even more important issues like outsourcing and the general crash of the tech industry.

--
Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
"Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
Re:I am impressed by Micah · 2003-09-30 07:24 · Score: 1

I'd like to know that too.

I'm (mostly) conservative and will probably vote for Bush again, but I have to admit, there's something about Dean that makes me really want to like him. I disagree with him on many issues, but if he has a clue about technology issues, I'd seriously consider supporting him. He seems to have a relatively straight head on.
Re:I am impressed by Chilltowner · 2003-09-30 07:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

The usage is actually evolving, much in the same way we say a point is moot when we don't mean that it is a matter for debate.

Anyway, Dean's first responsibility viz. taxes would be to roll back the tax cuts that have failed to revive the economy and, likely, will wind up hurting it by keeping the budget in deficit and adversely influencing interest rates. A healthy economy helps all of us, including geeks.

I would also beg to differ (heh) about the median income of geeks. It has been dropping over the past few years as many of our jobs are run by fewer people working longer hours, plus a general downturn in technology spending and investment. It is not taxes that have done this to us, but poor economic policy and predatory investment schemes.
Re:I am impressed by krb · 2003-09-30 07:32 · Score: 1

Just because Dean's campaign promotes GPL'ed software doesn't mean he's going to fight for your interests: at most this is just pandering to the web-connected crowd, but is more likely just someone's pet project that got blown out of proportion.

maybe i'm not cynical enough. i thought that at best this was an attempt to use technology in a way it's not been used before - to organize grassroots political action. at *worst* it's pandering. the thing i like the most about dean is that he seems not to be pandering to anybody, which is rare among politicians. it's refreshing. but, maybe i'm super naive, i guess.

--
Re:I am impressed by TheCarp · 2003-09-30 07:37 · Score: 2, Interesting

I dunno, as one of those geeks that has an income above the national median, I don't find my taxes are especially high. In fact, id be happy to have them take more if it would buy single payer health care to help alot of those non-geeks I know who struggle just to make a living and for whom carrying health insurance takes a signifigant portion of their meager wage.

However I might be kind of pissed if those extra dollars instead went to funding another game of "Bomb the brown people" or draping cloth to cover the supposed naughty bits on statues.

And I certainly would not be happy to see yet more checks go out to people that are too small to actually make any difference in their lives, aside from maybe helping them make a single car payment, just to have a purely symbpolic tax cut to helps someones aproval rating while the deficit goes up again.

Not that I am bitter or anything.

-Steve

--
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Re:I am impressed by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:45 · Score: 0

Pssst. There's 2 keys on your keyboard labeled 'Shift'. Use one of 'em from time to time......
Re:I am impressed by squarooticus · 2003-09-30 07:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

In fact, id be happy to have them take more if it would buy single payer health care to help alot of those non-geeks I know who struggle just to make a living and for whom carrying health insurance takes a signifigant portion of their meager wage.

At the same time a single-payer system saves the present, it destroys the future: a single-payer can dictate prices to providers, reducing profit margins to the point where no research can be done. I'm not willing to give up the chance to find a cure for cancer or heart disease just so people who didn't earn it can get free health care on my back. You'd be stupid to support this as well.

Besides, why should I support paying more for less? I have good health care. I don't want to step down to GuvmintCare, and would fight tooth and nail to keep that from happening.

If you're feeling so giving, why don't you buy health care for your starving friends? Too expensive? That's right: good health care is expensive! Imagine that! But instead of volunteering your own money dollar-for-dollar to pay for it, you're volunteering $0.05 of your own money and $0.95 of someone else's money. How noble of you!

The only reason you're willing to raise taxes to pay for all this crap is that you know you wouldn't be hit that hard by it, owing to the injustice of the progressive income tax system. If you had to pay 38% of your weekly paycheck in federal tax (in addition to 15% for FICO, plus ~5% in state tax, not to mention sales taxes, wealth/property taxes, etc.) and truly understood the downsides of government funding, I guarantee you'd be much less likely to support it.

And I certainly would not be happy to see yet more checks go out to people that are too small to actually make any difference in their lives, aside from maybe helping them make a single car payment, just to have a purely symbpolic tax cut to helps someones aproval rating while the deficit goes up again.

(1) Pay people more for doing nothing.
(2) ??
(3) Profit!

--
[ home ]
Re:I am impressed by phliar · 2003-09-30 08:06 · Score: 1

He may be cool for a national-level politician, but remember that he is a national-level politician. He can't stray too far from the middle of the road. Kucinich is my guy too, and I'm starting to appreciate him not being a front-runner -- that means he doesn't have to not offend a majority and can raise the "dangerous" issues. I will continue to support Kucinich, but after the primary I'll be happy to support whoever runs against Bush. Sure, crap like the DMCA will continue, but anything will be better than we what we have now. Either way, I'm impressed that a presidential campaign features Gnu -- twenty years ago I believed that Unix would not be in ordinary society in my lifetime.
Incidentally, you don't mean that it begs the question about the geek friendliness. Perhaps the situation begs for the question to be asked. To beg a question means to use the premise itself in an argument. Circular reasoning is another way to put it.

--
Unlimited growth == Cancer.
Re:I am impressed by cje · 2003-09-30 08:19 · Score: 1

Dean's primary point is that any American family that ran their finances the way that the federal government currently does would be out on the streets, in prison, or worse. If the government wants to do things like spend hundreds of billions of dollars in Iraq, it should at least be willing to pay for it, instead of running up half a trillion dollars in debt (just this year alone.) There is certainly government waste that can be eliminated, but the bottom line is that we've made lots of commitments over the past couple of years, and money just doesn't grow on trees.

IMHO, I think that the "my taxes are too high" crowd needs a little perspective. First of all, taxes in America are on the low end compared to other highly-developed nations in the world. Second, the highest federal tax rate under President Eisenhower in the 1950s was 90%. That's ninety, with an 'n'. Today, the highest federal tax rate is just over 35%. The 90% rate was a holdover from the days of World War II, a time period where Americans were willing to make sacrifices in order to help their country out. It saddens me that we have an environment today where there are untold millions of people who want to wage war the world over, but are unwilling to make the same sacrifice. Instead, they would put the burden squarely on the shoulders of our children and our grandchildren after them.

I benefit from the Bush tax cuts. Not in any sort of life-changing way, mind you, but it's certainly more than a couple of bucks a month. And while I wouldn't dream of returning to the days of a 90% federal tax rate, it wouldn't bother me in the least to see Dean's plan implemented and to roll back the Bush tax cuts. If it's a choice between that and leaving untold trillions in debt to those that I leave behind, I gotta go with Dr. Dean on this one.

--
We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
Re:I am impressed by TheCarp · 2003-09-30 09:03 · Score: 1

> At the same time a single-payer system saves the present, it destroys the
> future: a single-payer can dictate prices to providers, reducing profit
> margins to the point where no research can be done. I'm not willing to give up
> the chance to find a cure for cancer or heart disease just so people who
> didn't earn it can get free health care on my back. You'd be stupid to support
> this as well.

Wow getting down and calling people stupid for supporting something you don't like. Pretty quick on the draw there bucko.

Why should we assume that private research is the only way this stuff gets done. There is plenty of medical research done on government grants, and otherwise not paid for by private dollars.

This idea that taxes and government funding are all evil and inefficient is so naive. Frankly when it comes to things like health care that people just need across the board, government funding and taxes work. It has afterall brought us things like the Interstate Highway system, not to mention that most of the rest of the civilized world (yes I being somewhat Europe-US-centric in my view of "the civilized world") already has single payer healthcare and it works just fine.

If youy insist on invectives, anyone who trook their head out of their ass and thought a little more about his fellow man than his own bottom line, might realise that the general health of the people around him is quite in his own best interest.

Now don't get me wrong, im not in favor of higher taxes per se. Just that there are programs that I am willing to pay more taxes for. Personally I would rather see them find the money by gutting some of the more egregious offences against the peoples money - like a fair portion of the military industrial complex - and do NOT favor lowering taxes at the expense of important social programs.

Now if you would kindly stop "garaunteeing" that I would support the same things as you if I just wasn't so fucking uneducated in the ways of the world, I will happily drop the suggestion that you get your head out of your ass and work on that sense of empathy with your fellow man.

-Steve

--
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Re:I am impressed by Chris+Johnson · 2003-09-30 09:12 · Score: 1

Are you fiscally conservative? Dean is WAY more conservative and responsible about spending than Bush is. Bush is an embarrassment to the right on that subject- he's spending way more than Clinton, he's out of control. Dean can run government on a budget and control spending better than most. Hell, in my state (Vermont) where he governed for years, we can afford free health insurance for all children- thing called Dr. Dynasaur. We got the money for it, thanks to Dean. We got the money for road maintenance, etc. Being fiscally conservative is a good thing...
Re:I am impressed by jason0000042 · 2003-09-30 09:29 · Score: 1

but remember that he is a national-level politician. He can't stray too far from the middle of the road.

I think one of the bushes might contradict this assumption, although in the other direction. The over all political climate in the US today is definitely (neo-)conservative these days, but that doesn't mean a national level politician has to be in the middle or right lanes. In fact, some progressives are calling for democratic candidates to be even more liberal.

--
i don't like my old sig.
Re:I am impressed by kableh · 2003-09-30 09:54 · Score: 1

I don't know about you, but my health insurance premiums went WAY up this year, and we had to switch providers for the second time since I've joined this company. Tell me again about the wonders of the free market?

You really seem to miss the point completely when it comes to the single payer health care system Dean proposes. And as he mentioned in an interview I saw once, they implemented a similar program in Vermont and it was CHEAPER than comparable coverage from a private provider.

I wouldn't typically wish ill against someone, but I hope you end up broke and destitute someday so you get to see how the "other half" lives.

Talk about a heartless motherfucker....
Re:I am impressed by Micah · 2003-09-30 10:12 · Score: 1

> Are you fiscally conservative?

Yep.

Seriously, good for Dean. I'll need to take a closer look at this stuff.

I *do* sort of feel betrayed by the Republicans. During the Newt revolution in 1994, they continually flapped their jaws about cutting government programs like the National Endowment for the Arts. Why in tarnation haven't they done it yet? Funding art displays, many of which are controversial, with taxpayer dollars while we have a huge deficit and a huge debt is the height of irresponsibility. It would be *so* ironic if Dean could cut this crap when it's the Republicans that promised to do it.

I do ask that someone close to the guy PLEASE find out where he stands on issues like the DMCA, CBDTPA, software patents, etc. If he has the "right" positions, I might just have to jump on board.

Of course, I'm also a social conservative, so I might have to hold my nose at the same time. :( But, Bush hasn't done a whole lot of good on social issues either, so it probably doesn't much matter.
Re:I am impressed by Nodatadj · 2003-09-30 10:27 · Score: 1

I'm not trying to troll you or anything, but how, as a Christian, can you support Bush after the atrocities he's spent the last 3 years creating, and after all the outright lies he's told?

I know, that as a Christian, I'm not voting for Tony Blair (I wouldn't vote for Bush either, but I'm not American, so that's a fairly moot point) no matter how many times he plays the God-fearin' church-goin' card that he likes so much because frankly, the way he handles the situations he's faced with makes me sick.
Re:I am impressed by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 10:40 · Score: 0

In the words of the great Kucinich...

"You can talk about balancing the budget in Vermont. But Vermont doesn't have a military. And if you are not going to cut the military and you are talking about balancing the budget, then what are you going to do about social spending? Hello?!"

Too bad I don't agree with any of his polititcs.
Re:I am impressed by FauxPasIII · 2003-09-30 10:44 · Score: 1

> Kucinich is my guy too

-nod- Kucinich is scrappy, and would have been my utopian candidate (although I pick Clarke for best chance of winning), until I found out he's anti-choice. =(

http://issues2002.org/OH/Dennis_Kucinich.htm

--
25% Funny, 25% Insightful, 25% Informative, 25% Troll
Re:I am impressed by Micah · 2003-09-30 11:55 · Score: 1

> I'm not trying to troll you or anything, but how, as a Christian, can you support Bush after the atrocities he's spent the last 3 years creating, and after all the outright lies he's told?

What "outright lies" has Bush told?

I assume you mean the WMD in Iraq thing. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he honestly believed Saddam had them. His evidence indicated that, and he was not purposely lying about it. There is evidence that Clinton believed that Saddam had WMDs.

What "atrocities" has he created?

Afghanistan: Not pretty, but the Taliban had to go, plain and simple. They were harboring people whose only goal in life is to violently kill as many people as possible in the free world.

Iraq: much more debatable. I'm not personally convinced that they were a direct threat to us, and never really supported this war (although it was great to see Baghdad fall and the Saddam statues come down). Yes, we made a mess, but our troops are trying to fix it as best they can. I saw on the news recently about how business is coming back to Baghdad. Looks like it's becoming a fairly bustling place.

Or do you mean the US economy? Well, his tax cuts were a worthwhile start. Really, he needs to start taxing companies that send work offshore. I don't think we'll have a truly great economy again until that happens.

So I'm really not a huge Bush fan. He's done some things right and made some mistakes. But IMHO he is vastly better than most Democrats. I'd vote for Bush over someone like Gephardt any day.

I do sort of wish someone would give Bush a run for his money in the Republican primaries, but that seems unlikely. There are many better Republicans than him, but I'm having a hard time immagining someone who could make a serious run right now. John McCain? Hmmm.
Re:I am impressed by squarooticus · 2003-09-30 11:57 · Score: 1

I wouldn't typically wish ill against someone, but I hope you end up broke and destitute someday so you get to see how the "other half" lives.

Talk about a heartless motherfucker....

Yes, you are. You, sir, are a complete asshole if you think I have no compassion. A *complete* *asshole*. Arrogance and ignorance, together. It's amazing to me how Slashdot has become the home of the self-righteous Socialists of America.

Listen, *asshole*: I never said that coverage would be cheaper. I never said it would be more expensive. What I *did* say was that it would reduce profit margins to medical firms and bleed their R&D budgets dry.

And then you know what happens? The only one funding medical research is the government, which will inevitably spend most of the money on the Disease Fad of the Day instead of spending that money most efficiently.

Case in point: AIDS. There is no reason to spend money on AIDS research. Why? Because it's a *behavioral disease*. Now that we test blood supplies for it, people only get it by *fucking around* and *doing drugs stupidly* (along with some other statistically insignificant ways of getting it). The right way to approach the problem is to inject some *personal responsibility* into peoples' lives: AIDS can be eradicated simply by altering behavior. But nooooo... there's a powerful AIDS lobby in the US, so lots of money gets funneled to that research even though it won't directly benefit more than 1% of the population.

Why isn't all that money going into cancer research, a disease that strikes 30% of our population at some point in their lives, and in most cases strikes seemingly randomly? Why?? I'll tell you why: because guv'mint money is controlled by special interests. It isn't allocated efficiently: it's allocated for *political reasons*.

Do you *fucking understand yet* you troglodite?

--
[ home ]
Re:I am impressed by Malcontent · 2003-09-30 14:41 · Score: 1

I'll jump in.

I don't think anybody argues that the taliban or saddam were not bad people. They clearly were. The problem is that nobody believes that they were routed because they were bad people. For example during the Reagan administration Saddam gassed the kurds and the iraqis. I am sure you have seen footage of the dead bodies littering the street. At that time human rights organizations cried foul, implored the US to do something, they begged the UN to do something. UN actually drafted a resolution condeming the chemical warfare. Do you know what happened to that resolution? The US vetoed it.

Saddam has been cruel and murderous for years and yet he was on the US dole, getting US help, getting US money, getting US intelligence. Why did Bush Jr all of a sudden decide to attack him? It wasn't because he was a bad man if it was he would have said so. He would have stood up in the UN and said "this guy is a sleazy murderer and we should get rid of him because of it". Why didn't he do that? I find that really curious don't you?

I would also like to point out that people are suffering horribly all over the world. Liberia comes to mind and so does palestine. Where is the mighty US army charging in to save the day? Why is Iraq and afghanistan so special?

I ask the last question rhetorically of course. We all know the importance of a stable afghanistan for piping caspian oil and of course all the iraqi oil wells are now under the firm control of the US army. In fact recently there was a law passed in Iraq that every industry in iraq had to allow foreign comapnies to compete for contracts. every industry except oil which was specifically exempted.

As for Dean. You probably argee with him on lots of issues. He is pro gun, fiscally conservative, for a smaller govt etc. During the recent debates he berated his fellow democrats for wanting to spend like crazy. I doubt you'll vote for him though. I find that most republicans would never vote for a democrat no matter who was running.

--
War is necrophilia.
Re:I am impressed by guacamolefoo · 2003-09-30 15:08 · Score: 1

Are you fiscally conservative? Dean is WAY more conservative and responsible about spending than Bush is. Bush is an embarrassment to the right on that subject- he's spending way more than Clinton, he's out of control.

(1) Clinton did not have Bin Laden to deal with. Afghanistan accounts for a significant portion of the 87 billion recently requisitioned. The swamp in Afghanistan had to be drained. What has been done there is not by any means permanent, but it has taken away a prominent safe house for Al Quaida.

(2) Iraq blah blah blah Iraq.

(3) Fiscal stimulus was necessary to pull us out of the recession we were entering in the tail end of 2000. Tax cuts and increased spending, combined with monetary policy changes (cuts in interest rates) were needed. Bush, and the GOP Congress, delivered. The key is to roll back or slow down spending growth as the economy rebounds. The deficit (as a percentage of GDP) is not particularly high. It is lower than many of the Reagan-era deficits. Deficits are not, per se, a bad thing. Remember that about $150 billion per year of the debt is monetized, so the current year deficit is actually lower by about that much. The $500 billion deficit is really only $350 (excluding the underfunded pension obligations). As a percentage of GDP, that is very small. As the economy picks up, tax revenues should rise again as well.

(4) Not having a budget surplus prevents the creation of new spending programs. I love to see the Denocrats in the position of having to argue for massive tax increases to pay for national health insurance. That's a fair debate. Saying instead that they just want to take the surplus and spit it back in income redistribution via health insurance is a quite different argument, and an easier one to make. The GOP prevented them from using the latter argument.

(5) The deficit is a useful tool politically (in addition to the way mentioned above) as it makes the gub'ment seem profligate and wasteful. This lowers the perception of the average person about the gub'ment and makes him less willing to want the gub'ment to do anything for him.

This may all seem somewhat paranoid to you, but running deficits right now is the right thing to do to get the economy going and it is the right thing to do to keep permanent new spending programs from taking place (and no, tax cuts do not count as a spending program).

we can afford free health insurance for all children- thing called Dr. Dynasaur. We got the money for it, thanks to Dean.

No, you got it thanks to the taxpayers.

GF.

--
Lots of petrified grits
Re:I am impressed by Micah · 2003-09-30 15:53 · Score: 1

Yeah, I hear what you're saying about war. US policy has seemingly been extremely inconsistant. We also sponsored some pretty nasty deeds in Guatemala, El Salvador, and Nicaragua (I've been too all three and seen the effects).

I guess what determines whether we "get involved" or not in any given situation is the perceived threat to us, regardless of whether or not it is rational.

In Afghanistan, I think the threat to us was fairly clear. Al-Queada, with the full approval of the Taliban, carried out 9/11. And they were probably using Afghan shelters to plan further attacks.

In Iraq, there was a perceived threat, but Bush was probably jumping the gun.

In Central America, the "threat" was Communism. Not even that, but just some socialist policies which would have helped the poor class have a chance. How we interpreted that as a threat to us is beyond me. But it happened.

Nobody thinks Liberia is a threat to us. So our involvement there will probably be limited to a token just to look like we care.

Anyway, the military is one area where I'm not particularly conservative. :) I actually have a pacifist Mennonite background. I'm giving Bush the benefit of the doubt on some of this stuff because I can also see where he's coming from, and I think his motives are sincere.

Still, ideally, we'd get the heck out of the Middle East completely, including support for Israel. We'd save a lot of money, and have a lot fewer enemies!

> As for Dean. You probably argee with him on lots of issues. He is pro gun, fiscally conservative, for a smaller govt etc.

Yeah. I'll need to check him out more on all those issues.

> I find that most republicans would never vote for a democrat no matter who was running.

Not necessarily. That is true of me so far -- I've never voted for a Democrat. A couple years ago I was pretty proud of that. Now, in the RIGHT situation, I might consider it. Whether or not Dean will meet my qualifications has yet to be seen.

I sincerely hope he wins the Democratic nomination. Then we'll have a REAL choice to make in November. :-) Unfortunately I won't be able to support him in that since I'm a registered Republican. Hmm, guess I could always "cross over" for the primary season...
Re:I am impressed by Malcontent · 2003-09-30 17:04 · Score: 1

"In Afghanistan, I think the threat to us was fairly clear. Al-Queada, with the full approval of the Taliban, carried out 9/11. And they were probably using Afghan shelters to plan further attacks."

The taliban is a weird study. The taliban gained supremacy through airpower. They had somehow (quite possibly through russia or pakistan) gotten a hold of a MIG or two and used them to pound the opposition. I remember when Kabul fell the fight was so one sided. They kept marching north and were finally held off for a little while around mazari-sharif. If you recall it was around this time that Dostun fled the country. Before then the so called northern alliance was begging the US for help. They were asking for stingers or for the US military to take out the MIGS. They kept saying that they could take the taliban if only the MIGs were destroyed. The US turned a blind eye because at the time it was believed that stability in Afghanistan could only be achieved if a strong force could grip the country. Of course the stability of afghanistan is very important to build a pipeline into the arabian sea or the black sea (through turkey). There are several state dept documents stating this desire.

In the end we found out too late that we should have helped out earlier. Now of course afghanistan is pretty much back to the pre-taliban chaos and karzai is the president of kabul.

Iraq was no threat to anybody let alone the US. The reasons for attacking them had nothing to do with them being a threat to us. If it was Bush would be saying so right now. Instead he is talking about the mass graves his father made possible.

--
War is necrophilia.
Re:I am impressed by BirdNerd · 2003-09-30 21:12 · Score: 1

wOULD yOU pREFER tHE cAPS lOCK?
Re:I am impressed by BirdNerd · 2003-09-30 21:35 · Score: 1

By the way, Dean is not proposing a single-payer system since he doesn't think it will pass. What Vermont did, and what he proposes for the country, is an expansion of existing systems, especially for children and the elderly.
Re:I am impressed by Nodatadj · 2003-09-30 23:57 · Score: 1

Afghanistan: No better off than it was. Women are not any freer, Taliban support is on the rise, and the warlords (who were the US's allies in the whole thing) are just the same as the Taliban.

Iraq: Hardly a "fairly bustling place" when most of Baghdad has no electricity. And with the number of accidently civilian deaths that are occurring still quite high, I don't think the army there is really doing all that good a job.

As for the lies that led "everyone" (where everyone is the UK and the US) into the war in Iraq, I could forgive Bush the person, as really, I think he's just a clueless puppet. I would refer more to "The lies the Bush administration told", because thats what you're really electing when you vote for Bush. There are numerous references that indicate that the lack of weapons of mass destruction was known, and that they were never the point of the matter. Cheney is still trotting out stories about them now,even though its fairly conclusive that they're not there. I could go on, but I won't.

But hey, at least he didn't get his intern to suck his dick, so I guess he's all good.
Re:I am impressed by ceejayoz · 2003-10-01 01:44 · Score: 1

Not sure about the figures under the Bush Administration, but as of 1998 cancer got more research money than AIDS.

For FY1998, NIH is allocating
a total of $1.61 billion for AIDS research, or 12% of the
$13.6 billion total NIH budget. Funding for research on
AIDS in FY1998 is second only to the National Cancer
Institute ($2.3 billion non-AIDS funds) and more than that
for the next highest funded institute, the National Heart,
Lung, and Blood Institute ($1.5 billion non-AIDS funds).

I also support AIDS research because, while it may affect 1% of our population here, it affects something like 50% of Africa's. There are likely tens of millions of Chinese suffering from the disease, being covered up by the government there. It is a dangerous, widespread epidemic and we shouldn't just turn a blind eye to it.
Re:I am impressed by squarooticus · 2003-10-01 04:57 · Score: 1

Not sure about the figures under the Bush Administration, but as of 1998 cancer got more research money than AIDS.

For FY1998, NIH is allocating
a total of $1.61 billion for AIDS research, or 12% of the
$13.6 billion total NIH budget.

That's $1.61 billion more that could be spent on cancer research, increasing by more than 50% the federal grants to a disease that strikes 50x more people in the US.

I also support AIDS research because, while it may affect 1% of our population here, it affects something like 50% of Africa's.

Let's be honest here: *you* don't support it. You want *other* people to support it through their taxes.

As far as I am concerned, if it's Africa's problem, let them pay for it, with the help of *voluntary* Western charity. That money is better spent on diseases that strike US citizens at a high rate, and AIDS isn't one of those.

--
[ home ]
Re:I am impressed by ceejayoz · 2003-10-01 05:38 · Score: 1

Let's be honest here: *you* don't support it. You want *other* people to support it through their taxes.

Um... I pay my share of taxes, too. I support part of those taxes going to pay for AIDS research.
Re:I am impressed by squarooticus · 2003-10-01 06:16 · Score: 1

Um... I pay my share of taxes, too. I support part of those taxes going to pay for AIDS research.

Right, but you're not only volunteering $0.10 of your own income taxes, but $0.10 or $0.05 or $0.50 or $10 of someone else's taxes, depending on how much they make in relation to you. You should only have control over than $0.10 of yours, and that's where my beef is.

--
[ home ]
Re:I am impressed by ceejayoz · 2003-10-01 06:55 · Score: 1

Frankly, the people I elect should (and do) have control over my tax dollars - not me. That's why we elect 'em.

If you don't like AIDS research, elect a candidate who will remove funding for AIDS research.

Better yet, vote for someone who'll cut the defecit so we don't have so many decisions that involve cutting funding for one thing to fund another slightly more important thing.
Re:I am impressed by squarooticus · 2003-10-01 07:10 · Score: 1

If you don't like AIDS research, elect a candidate who will remove funding for AIDS research.

This is a non-solution, and you know it. Since there are too many competing opinions about whether we should be taxed for something and how much, special interests exclusively control federal outlays by organizing large groups of people to vote for particular parties/politicians.

I want control over my own money, and I *don't* want control over anyone else's. Is that too much to ask?

Better yet, vote for someone who'll cut the defecit so we don't have so many decisions that involve cutting funding for one thing to fund another slightly more important thing.

Sure. We can cut the deficit by cutting all government health research grants, and letting the private sector do it. So, you see, we do agree. Steve Forbes for president!

--
[ home ]
Re:I am impressed by ceejayoz · 2003-10-01 07:35 · Score: 1

I want control over my own money, and I *don't* want control over anyone else's. Is that too much to ask?

Yes, actually. In fact, it's patently absurd. We pay taxes and elect representatives so we don't have to administer public services like roads, police and fire departments, defense, etc. ourselves.

If you really want control over your money, go live in a virtual anarchy like Afghanistan and see if you'd rather be paying those taxes again.
Re:I am impressed by squarooticus · 2003-10-01 07:50 · Score: 1

If you really want control over your money, go live in a virtual anarchy like Afghanistan and see if you'd rather be paying those taxes again.

Bad analogy, and you know it: only if you could come up with a secular nation with privately-owned infrastructure would you have a fair comparison.

--
[ home ]
Re:I am impressed by ceejayoz · 2003-10-01 07:54 · Score: 1

The fact that they don't exist should tell you something about the viability of the idea.
Re:I am impressed by squarooticus · 2003-10-01 08:09 · Score: 1

Electricity didn't exist as a controllable power source until the 1900's, and yet it seems pretty viable.

Your objection is "proof by example," which is engineer-speak for "poor logic."

--
[ home ]
Re:I am impressed by ceejayoz · 2003-10-01 11:58 · Score: 1

Electricity depended on scientific progress to become viable.

Your political system depends on a complete change to human nature.

See the difference?
Re:I am impressed by squarooticus · 2003-10-01 13:20 · Score: 1

Your political system depends on a complete change to human nature.

You've got it completely backware. Libertarianism recognizes that humans are inherently lazy and selfish, and refuses to reward them for it. It is socialism and its relatives (social safety nets, central planning, etc.) that cannot square themselves with human nature.

--
[ home ]
Re:I am impressed by ceejayoz · 2003-10-01 14:46 · Score: 1

It is in a nation's best interests to keep those inherently lazy and selfish citizens happy. You take away central planning and social safety nets, and the people you're taking them from will revolt. After all, they may be lazy, but they're not gonna let themselves starve.

Human nature wants someone else to do the planning, the providing of services, and most people are just fine with paying some taxes to preserve that status quo.

For true libertarianism to work, everyone's gotta be all for it - never gonna happen, not without fundamentally changing human nature.
Re:I am impressed by squarooticus · 2003-10-01 15:03 · Score: 1

Well, to conclude my own half of the conversation, I'll just say that you should read Atlas Shrugged to see that there's another side to rebellion. It's not only the lazy who can mount a revolution, and more importantly, we the producers don't need them.

--
[ home ]

Dean Gets It by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 06:53 · Score: 5, Informative

The more significant story is Dean's Internet Principles

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pa ge name=InternetPrinciples

and Net Advisory Net, including Lessig

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pa ge name=NAN

I submitted this, but it wasn't posted, yet the story about the ridiculous spider case mod was posted. Hmm.

Re:Dean Gets It by ScottSpeaks! · 2003-09-30 07:25 · Score: 2, Informative

Maybe if you got the URLs correct:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?page name=InternetPrinciples
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?page name=NAN
Using the URLs as you posted them, you just get redirected to the site's main page.
Re:Dean Gets It by Penguinoflight · 2003-09-30 07:39 · Score: 1

I'll tell you why it didn't get posted.. First, your url was wrong.. we don't want to make a contribution to dean, we want to know what he really thinks about computers. Second, he's not saying anything on these pages, it's just polical jargon. We don't care what dean "feels" about the internet and computers, we want to know what he's (not) going to do.

Like it came out back in the 2000 election with gore (groan), gore was running unix, and had a better website than bush. Some of us would have rather gore just shut up about technology, and quit his reasoning that not stopping technology somehow helped him "create" it (not invent as commonly thought).

I personally was much more concerned about gore as a canidate because of some stuff he talked about during his vice-presidency (gotta listen to what these people say when they're NOT running for office, ditto for dean). I didn't like the anti internet attitute, in which he seemed to go along with telephones lame argument that people were using phones for internet, and should be able to charge more. He was also not against internet taxes, which if implemented would have killed e-commerce, and the whole economy.

--
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Re:Dean Gets It by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:52 · Score: 0

He was also not against internet taxes, which if implemented would have killed e-commerce, and the whole economy.

I'm sure glad that didn't happen! Just thinking about the thriving economy and continuing tech boom gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. Oh, wait, my meds are here.
Re:Dean Gets It by Politburo · 2003-09-30 08:04 · Score: 1

Thats because lamefilter put a space in there.
Re:Dean Gets It by Hard_Code · 2003-09-30 08:13 · Score: 2, Interesting

It helps that he has Lawrence Lessig on his internet advisory committee.

--

It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?

Holy shit by boomgopher · 2003-09-30 06:53 · Score: 1

"I still believe in e=mc, but I can't believe that in all of human history, we'll never ever be able to go beyond the speed of light to reach where we want to go," said Clark. "I happen to believe that mankind can do it."

<Grin>

--
Your hybrid is not saving the environment. Its purpose is to make you feel good about buying something.

Re:Holy shit by squiggleslash · 2003-09-30 07:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

Call me a sap, but I think that's endearing.
It's not (always) a bad thing for a politician to be a dreamer, and I don't read anything into that that Clark thinks FTL travel is easy, or will happen in our lifetimes.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:Holy shit by Zeinfeld · 2003-09-30 08:42 · Score: 4, Insightful

"I still believe in e=mc, but I can't believe that in all of human history, we'll never ever be able to go beyond the speed of light to reach where we want to go," said Clark. "I happen to believe that mankind can do it."
Actually this is not excluded by Einstein, just that we have no idea how to do it. The key is the concept of space which is actually mutuable. There are ways that we already know about that can warp space in absolutely infintesimal ways. Could there be a way to do it on a large scale? Possibly. There are serious scientists who consider such problems.
Faster than light travel is certainly a much longer shot than fussion, we know that fussion is possible and the sun provides an existence proof. But faster than light is probably a much easier shot than building a missile defense system that can't be circumvented by the opposition. None of the proposals made so far work and none is capable even in theory of counteracting existing countermeasures such as the UK Chevalene warhead design that is so old it was recently withdrawn from service as obsolete.
What we are seeing here is an example of a classical smear attack. I strongly suspect that the original question was asked for the sole purpose of being able to trash Clark as a loony with an out of context quote. Karl Rove and his smear-team did the exact same thing with Gore last time round, they took a bunch of out of context quotes from Gore's ecology book and used them to claim that Gore was some sort of nut. In fact the prediction Gore made about the possible rise of the hydrogen economy and the decline of the internal combustion engine is far from fruitcake, thats why the Whitehouse included $100 million for H2 power research in the last budget.

--
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Re:Holy shit by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:33 · Score: 0

Sap.

Go vote for Jerry Brown, you damn dirty hippy.
Re:Holy shit by Sivaram_Velauthapill · 2003-09-30 10:46 · Score: 1

I actually believe in time travel but FTL isn't it. I think the only way to time travel--if it's possible at all--is via warping spacetime with heavy gravity. Examples include worm holes and Tippler cylinders.

Breaking the speed of light is highly unlikely--possible impossible. Even if FTL were possible, I think you wouldn't be able to do it with (positive) mass. You may be able to do it with things we don't really know much about (such as dark matter or something).

Sivaram Velauthapillai

--
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places ;)
Re:Holy shit by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 18:41 · Score: 0

The late, great Carl Segan doubted we would ever be able to time travel. His reason: There are no people from the future walking around. Hmmmmmm......

Re:More candidates should do this by deanj · 2003-09-30 06:54 · Score: 1

Hmmm..maybe some /. spelling technology would help me too. :-)

Obligatory invention joke by Ricin · 2003-09-30 06:55 · Score: 4, Funny

Al Gore invented the Internet but (kinda) lost the elections. Common knowledge.

So 3 years or so from now it migth be common knowledge that Howard Dean invented GNU, the weblog, and Linux too but (kinda) lost the elections. That and his house (to Darl for stealing everything from SCO).

Seriously though, nice initiative but it also smells a bit of, well, I'm sure you get the point.

Re:Obligatory invention joke by bombadillo · 2003-09-30 07:10 · Score: 4, Informative

Al Gore did more for the internet than any other politician. Just look at the Internet Societies page. You will notice that from a political stand point he did take the initiative to create the internet. With out his help the internet as we know it would have been delayed. Also, he never said he "Invented the Internet". Al Gore said that he took the initiative to create the internet. Meaning that he championed the technology.
Re:Obligatory invention joke by stanmann · 2003-09-30 07:18 · Score: 1, Troll

The internet "as we know it" is not necessarily a good thing. Arpanet was around however before Gore entered congress in 1977. Therefore The great Goron didn't take the initiative to create anything. He may have championed commercializing it and bringing about the dot-boom/bomb fiasco, but taking initiative he didn't.

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Obligatory invention joke by daveqr · 2003-09-30 07:25 · Score: 0

Al Gore invented the Internet but (kinda) lost the elections. Common knowledge.
Last time I checked, Gore has a Nashville address, not Washington D.C. address, so I'd say he did loose the election.

--

The good news is Jesus is coming back. The bad news is he's really pissed off.
Re:Obligatory invention joke by bombadillo · 2003-09-30 07:48 · Score: 1

Do you have a point? After all you are using a computer to read slashdot over the Internet not the Aparanet. The fact is that Al Gore could see what benefits the technology could have. That is pretty impressive considering he held hearings for the internet as early as 1986. Also, You must have pretty interesting politcal views as you are against Gore (and thus probably a Bush supporter) and are criticizing the comercialization of the internet. Which makes believe that you don't think for yourself but let others think for you.
Re:Obligatory invention joke by bitchx · 2003-09-30 07:55 · Score: 1, Insightful

Al Gore never claimed to have invented the internet. You have fallen for the right-wing spin machine.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh120302.shtml

--

I'm the best IRC client ever.
Re:Obligatory invention joke by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:11 · Score: 0

Al Gore never claimed to have invented the internet.
. . . and Bill Gates never said that 640k should be enough. But close enough.
Re:Obligatory invention joke by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:21 · Score: 1, Funny

More likely, they'll say Howard Dean invented the weblog.
Re:Obligatory invention joke by micromoog · 2003-09-30 08:35 · Score: 1

"Loosing" the election is different from being prevented from taking power through the corrupt use of nepotism and a politically-biased judicial system.
Re:Obligatory invention joke by stanmann · 2003-09-30 08:37 · Score: 1

UH, The infrastructure hasn't changed, hasn't improved, and the only major change, is that now I have to pay someone for access. I'm not criticizing the comercialization of the internet, I'm just questioning the intelligence of taking credit for it. It was a necessary step, and an evil one. ANd yes I do prefer Bush to gore, primarily because Bush is smart enough to delegate. He is smart and courageous enough to surround himself with men and women who are smarter than he is and will give him straight answers. I wish I could find the Projected cabinet lineup comparison that was circulating back in 2000. Gore had a bunch of idiot yes men that couldn't outthink BUsh, I know he's not a genius. OTOH Bush's cabinet is full of giants.

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Obligatory invention joke by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:48 · Score: 0

He "took the initiative in creating the Internet". Since I don't see his name on any RFCs, this is plainly wrong (throwing money doesn't make you an architect). But if this is the stupidest thing he's ever said, he's still head and shoulders above the chimp.
Re:Obligatory invention joke by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:20 · Score: 0

He may have championed commercializing it and bringing about the dot-boom/bomb fiasco, but taking initiative he didn't.
The dot-boom/bomb can be blamed on no-one other than the idiots who started companies without viable business models, and the other idiots who hyped them and invested in them.
Re:Obligatory invention joke by bombadillo · 2003-09-30 09:35 · Score: 1

Okay now I now you are trolling....
The infrastructure hasn't changed, hasn't improved, and the only major change, is that now I have to pay someone for access

You are saying the infrastructure and hardware hasn't been improved since 1986 when Al Gore started to champion the technology for the internet? You may have to pay for internet access now. However, that is better than not having internet access. Another interesting thing is that you want the internet for free, that sounds pretty socialistic.....

"Bush is smart enough to delegate. He is smart and courageous enough to surround himself with men and women who are smarter than he is and will give him straight answers.

Do you honestly feel that Bush is calling the shots in the White House? Do you honestly believe that W Bush assembled this team. After all his cabinet is basically the same as is fathers. Doesn't that concern you that the most powerful political position in the world is held by a person with almost no prior experience and whose authority and legitimacy is questioned by so many people and countries....
Re:Obligatory invention joke by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 10:13 · Score: 0

not to mention that there are two types of people who delegate, those who are intelligent and capable, but relegate the low-level details to competent people to concentrate on higher-level things. then there those like Bush who is too dim-witted to do anything himself, so he HAS to delegate.

I read somewhere that Bush doesnt even read the papers or watch the news, and is spoonfed information from his advisers. Talk about being out of touch with the world! He is "delegating" reading and thinking to others!
Re:Obligatory invention joke by jejones · 2003-09-30 11:35 · Score: 1

And of course we can all trust what you read somewhere, right?

There were plenty of articles on the order of Edith Efron's "Can the President Think?" (printed in Reason back in the early 90s) that questioned whether Clinton had anything other than a good memory in his favor.

We all have a tendency to think of our enemies as stupid... and succumbing to that tendency is stupid.
Re:Obligatory invention joke by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 16:20 · Score: 0

and what is the tendency to discount other people's statements just because you dont agree with them? I would call that pretty stupid too, dimbulb.

what you SHOULD have written was to ask the source of that information and whether it was confirmed either independently or by the administration. Well it was the New York Times and they quote Administration officials that think there is nothing wrong with Bush getting all his news second-hand. And as I havent heard anyone from the Administration suing the NYT for misquoting, it isnt even in dispute.

Another idiotic thing you did was to compare Bush with Clinton in terms of intelligence. I know Clinton has had verbal gaffes, but not in the order of "improbabble" or not knowing the name of the president of Pakistan. I dont think it is generally accepted knowledge even by Republicans that Clinton was stupid, unlike Bush.

Republicans (rightly so) thought Clinton was a shady character like a used car salesman, a person who would change what he says just to get the sale. What is amazing is that they are totally blind to the fact that Bush is doing the same ("WMD!" "Imminent threat!" "Liberate the oppressed!" "Make an example of all tyrants!" "Uphold the honor of the UN!"), even though he ran under a "bring integrity back to the white house" ticket.
Re:Obligatory invention joke by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 16:22 · Score: 0

But bush is stupid. He has a 90 IQ. go look it up.

Bush however, is not as stupid as his handlers let the public believe him to be, because it is a political advantage to be more stupid than you really are. He is still below the average slashdot reader.

Policy wise, his people border on evil. Bush Sr, Nixon, Eisenhower, Lincoln, Jefferson are ALL to the LEFT. In fact, I've heard Nixon called moderate, and lincoln's speaches along with a lot of jefferson's writtings are now hard to even imagine in the current GOP.

The GOP is run/manipulated by the people who run Bush and they have had working control over the party since about 1996. What is sad is how many moderate and TRUE republicans foolishing cling to the party refusing to see it beyond the whore it has become.

Their plans have been made public. Afgan, Iraq, its all been planned way before 9/11---they just needed the excuse--read it for yourself on THEIR website:
http://www.newamericancentury.org

The Great Thing About This by techsoldaten · 2003-09-30 06:55 · Score: 5, Interesting

The great thing about this software is that it could ultimately cut down on the cost of campaigns, lessening the need for big political donors and their influence on politics.

A former employer of mine was involved in developing Web communities for conservative clients, and the bill for his services is huge even by 1999 standards.

Re:The Great Thing About This by fm6 · 2003-09-30 07:18 · Score: 2, Insightful

Sure, if everybody does all their campaigning online. But as long as most campaigning consists of buying TV and radio time, running for office will be expensive.
Dean has done well so far by tapping online resources and communities. But remember that we haven't even started picking convention delegates yet. Once the primaries and caucuses start, Dean will have to find a way to get to all the voters and caucusers who aren't internet geeks. Maybe he can leverage his existing following into some kind of alternate campaign machine. But it's more likely that he'll just start spending money like any other candidate.
Re:The Great Thing About This by MAXOMENOS · 2003-09-30 07:32 · Score: 1

Once the primaries and caucuses start, Dean will have to find a way to get to all the voters and caucusers who aren't internet geeks. He's got this right now. All those internet geeks are getting tapped for donations (check out his Q3 numbers tomorrow morning, they should be $14+ million) and are being organized into canvassing groups. Right now he's got a sizeable (informal, ad-hoc, mostly inexperienced, but very enthusiastic) campaign organization in every state. Most of it is being organized over the Web, but the actions themselves are taking place on the ground.

--
Finding God in a Dog

He does not talk about time travel by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 06:57 · Score: 2, Informative

he talks about faster than light travel

Re:He does not talk about time travel by rsidd · 2003-09-30 07:27 · Score: 1

If it were possible, faster-than-light travel would be backward-in-time travel.
Re:He does not talk about time travel by tbase · 2003-09-30 07:31 · Score: 1

You're speaking Relatively, right?

--

666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
Re:He does not talk about time travel by deanj · 2003-09-30 07:56 · Score: 1

Read the article. Faster than light travel implies time travel. Even says that in the article.
Re:He does not talk about time travel by ceejayoz · 2003-09-30 10:09 · Score: 1

Assuming that we know everything about physics there is to know, of course.

Brad About Dean (9/10/2003) by Fedhax · 2003-09-30 06:57 · Score: 5, Interesting

If you go to the Drupal website, you'll see that Brad posted some brief comments from his interaction with the Dean campaign (9/10/2003).

(Taken from Drupal.org)

I met with a Presidential campaign yesterday. They asked me to advise in general on their web site, but when we got into our discussion, I learned they were doing the static html thing. So, I demoed three CMS' to them - Drupal, Typo3, and a fork of Backend my company developed. They were blown away by all of them,. But I steered them to Drupal for speed of setup, flexibility and features. As a matter of fact, if you compare the features to what Howard Dean has on his site, you are basically setup with everything he has.

Having managed campaigns for a living in a previous life, I realized that if a Presidential campaign is this far behind technologically, then there are likely hundreds of candidates running now and next year that will not have a system in place. Additionally, most do not have the budget of this campaign and are unable to hire developers, designers, and writers, but know it is necessary.

Regardless, it is quite impressive to see an open project get this kind of press (Presidential campaigns?), and the modifications given back to the community?! Ye gods! w00t!

Re:Brad About Dean (9/10/2003) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:04 · Score: 0

I dunno. I saw:
Document contains no data
Re:Brad About Dean (9/10/2003) by nic · 2003-09-30 07:40 · Score: 1

Fedhax (513562) wrote "Brad posted some brief comments from his interaction with the Dean campaign (9/10/2003)", but that mistates the case. Brad wrote "I met with a Presidential campaign yesterday" without stating that it was Dean's campaign, and then later, in reference to Drupal states "if you compare the features to what Howard Dean has on his site, you are basically setup with everything he has". This implies to me that he was talking with another campaign.

The fact that Dean's own site says "...have been working on this project for nearly six months ... extending Drupal" shows that they have been using Drupal for a long time before Brad's meeting two weeks ago.

--
All opinions expressed are mine, if you want them it'll cost you.

Since all the links are down... by GillBates0 · 2003-09-30 06:57 · Score: 4, Informative

Here's the Freshmeat page for the project.

--
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam

Re:Since all the links are down... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:52 · Score: 0

Actually thats not us, we are just based on that. Check deanspace.org. That has all the fun development stuff such. Our server isn't /.ed yet. (All my code will eventually be submitted back to the Drupal project).

-Neil, lead DeanSpace developer

Wait a sec.... by deanj · 2003-09-30 06:58 · Score: 4, Insightful

You know, I like free software as much as the next geek, but as for him "promoting free software"... well, he's not. His campaign staff is...give credit where credit is due. I seriously don't think he knows about this promotion.

It'll be interesting to see if any competing campaigns take it up and use it for their communities.

Re:Wait a sec.... by smack_attack · 2003-09-30 07:33 · Score: 1

It'll be interesting to see if any competing campaigns take it up and use it for their communities.

Now that would be ironic.

--

Hammer of Truth
Re:Wait a sec.... by Fred+Ferrigno · 2003-09-30 08:01 · Score: 1

Linked elsewere: Charlottesville For Clark.
Re:Wait a sec.... by rmohr02 · 2003-09-30 09:13 · Score: 1

Well, if Dean's staff makes decisions like this during his campaign, they will do so during his presidency.
Re:Wait a sec.... by deanj · 2003-09-30 15:45 · Score: 2, Interesting

But, it's not the staff that's doing it. It's the grass roots folks. When's the last time "grass roots" folks have been part of the staff making decisions after the election to an office that high? Hell, even city council people don't add "grass roots" folks to their staff once they're elected.
Re:Wait a sec.... by rmohr02 · 2003-09-30 16:31 · Score: 1

The grassroots people are running blogforamerica.com?

Er? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 06:58 · Score: 0

Isn't Howard Dean a former medical doctor? If he had been a CS or an EE-type guy, that would be one thing, but I tend to find that code from non-technical types tends to be poorly organized and spaghetti-like. I'll check out the package, but you can bet that I won't run a single line of Dean's code on any of my machines until I've gone over the whole thing with a fine-toothed comb.

Re:Er? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:25 · Score: 0

Dean didn't write the code, you dolt!

Impressive: by BWJones · 2003-09-30 07:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

Said Joe Trippi, the Dean for America campaign manager: "It is extraordinary that our grassroots base is now building tools to support itself. This is grassroots squared." He added: "As far as we know, this is the first open source development project for a presidential campaign, and it's definitely the most ambitious."

O.K., so Dean is smart. This is one of the most impressive grass roots campaigns I have ever seen and he has my vote. Assuming Dean is elected President, given his background, perhaps we could have some open source solutions to the health care crisis to enable physicians and hospitals to reduce costs associated with all of the electronic medical records problems that are cropping up.

The ideal pair? Dean and Clark. A thinker and an individual who gets things done. What a concept!

--
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.

Re:Impressive: by LegalEagle · 2003-09-30 07:07 · Score: 1

There are several open source solutions for the health care industry. See the list [LinuxMedNews.com].
Re:Impressive: by be-fan · 2003-09-30 07:10 · Score: 1

I'd love that tickit. Clark is a good moderate candidate --- he gets things done, but he's also a very smart guy.

--
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Re:Impressive: by wytcld · 2003-09-30 07:13 · Score: 4, Informative

Dean and Clark. A thinker and an individual who gets things done.

Dean got a lot done as Vermont governor - went from deficit to surplus in the one state whose constitution doesn't mandate a balanced budget; provided health insurance for everyone under 18; and generally took middle-of-the road stances on hot-button issues like road building and development that infuriated Democrats in the Legislature. The guy's actually very conservative on many issues - he just does conservative right, fairly (what's fair about disallowing gay unions?) and compassionately.

Clark - degree in economics, Rhodes scholar and first in his West Point class ... he's the 'thinker,' right? Dean says he has called Clark frequently, mostly for foreign policy advice. It's a fair be that if either comes in first, the other's on the ticket. They may be a tag team.

--
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Re:Impressive: by Otter · 2003-09-30 07:14 · Score: 1

I agree with you that Dean conveys a basic sense of competence, at least when it comes to presiding over people of the same class and sensibility as himself.
I'm not so convinced that that's the sole criterion for choosing a president, as though he's going to be the Sysadmin in Chief.

--
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Re:Impressive: by kabocox · 2003-09-30 07:18 · Score: 1

Yack, although it would be neat and get tons of good slashdot coverage, do you really think that an open source solution would follow all the CYA practises of the health care profession? They are so binded mainly by the fear of malpratice law suits... What doctors really need are EULA. I hope that they never get them though.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:19 · Score: 0

The ideal pair? Dean and Clark.

Well, for sure an NRA Darling and a general would not seem inclined to be taking my gun away any time soon.
Re:Impressive: by BWJones · 2003-09-30 07:21 · Score: 1

There are several open source solutions for the health care industry.

Yes, I've looks at a number of these, but the current state is poor. There is no common database that physicians and hospitals and developers could draw from. Such an open source database could make possible a number of products that reduce the workload that medical providers have to wade through. Currently the big requirement that everyone is having to deal with is HIPPA compliance. Imagine if the government were to approve a specific open source database that physicians and hospitals could then use and develop for. This would resolve many issues currently faced by providers with respect to privacy, insurance billing, Medicare and Medicaid billing, records management, multimedia integration into medical records, security etc...etc...etc...

Support from the upper echelon on government for such a project could go a long way towards maintaining and fixing our health care system without resorting to socialized medicine.

--
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Re:Impressive: by almaw · 2003-09-30 07:27 · Score: 1

It's important to realise that this is *not* an open source development effort for a presidential campaign.

Deanspace have forked Drupal 4.2 and added their own custom modules. They don't actually talk much to the folk at drupal.org (certainly not on the developers list), which is a pity. We've yet to see any contributed code come back to our CVS server.
Re:Impressive: by Pave+Low · 2003-09-30 07:30 · Score: 1

Being smart doesn't necessarily equate to being a good leader or politician.
Jimmy Carter was supposed to be smart, but he made a terrible president. Clinton, the Rhodes scholar, will be remembered more for his scandals and lying than his accomplishments.
Meanwhile, Reagon, the supposed dunce, broke the Soviet Empire, defeated communism, and set the stage for the biggest economic boom in decade.

--
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
Re:Impressive: by smack_attack · 2003-09-30 07:35 · Score: 1

The egos are too big. Both want the bigger slice of pie. This was actually floated by the Dean camp before Clark announced and it didn't fly very far with Clark.

--

Hammer of Truth
Re:Impressive: by proj_2501 · 2003-09-30 07:37 · Score: 1

(1) The Soviet Union dissolved mostly because Gorbachev didn't know how to run the country
(2) Communism is still alive and well
Re:Impressive: by Tyler+Durden · 2003-09-30 07:37 · Score: 1

The ideal pair? Dean and Clark. A thinker and an individual who gets things done. What a concept!
Yeah that does sound like a good ticket. Clark could help take away the perception that Democrats are weak on defense. Only problem is, Dean attacked Clark at the debate for being a new-comer to the Deomcratic party, hinting that he wasn't a true Democrat. (Al Sharpton came to Clark's defense with a funny line.)
Dean is my tentative favorite candidate right now, but he seems like a hot-head who could burn some bridges. If so, I hope he can get over himself.

--
Happy people make bad consumers.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:41 · Score: 0

God, I wish Dean supporters were more pragmatic. They're going to be so disappointed when reality rears it's ugly head on them.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:44 · Score: 1, Insightful

"The ideal pair? Dean and Clark."

Except Dean HATES Clark. Clark is the 'Clinton Candidate' there to make sure Dean does not win. If Dean gets the nomination it means that McAuliffe and the Clintons lose control of the DNC. Clark is in the race to prevent that from occurring, and to save a spot for Hillary. If it looks like a Dem will get the WH in '04 then she will enter the race. Otherwise she would have to wait until 2012 to run for Pres.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:47 · Score: 0

This so-called "Reagon" set the stage for the biggest economic boom by throwing us into a massive recession that we as a country couldn't recover from for over half a decade after he left office.

As for the USSR, I think another poster already replied without so much as mentioning China or Cuba.

Now that I've paid the toll, may I cross your bridge?
Re:Impressive: by Pave+Low · 2003-09-30 07:47 · Score: 1

Communism is still alive and well
Alive, just barely, only in the minds of some college campuses. In practice, it's all but dead.
Well?, where exactly can I found it well?

--
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
Re:Impressive: by AppyPappy · 2003-09-30 07:48 · Score: 1, Flamebait

Dean and Clark

BAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Clark would bounce him down a flight of steps to take his place.

Dean's a policy wonk and Clark doesn't know an amendment from a basketball. Clark isn't going to take orders from a sawbones. Match made in Hell.

Dean and Hillary. And they'd lose.

--
If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem
Re:Impressive: by ichimunki · 2003-09-30 07:50 · Score: 1

So when Dean provided health care for all those Vermont kids, did that mean that working parents no longer had to pay premiums for their children's health care? Or did it mean that parents who didn't want to or couldn't afford to pay premiums got them paid for with tax money?

And what is a "middle of the road" stance on road building? One that expects that the users of the roads will pay for them from fees directly related to the roads (i.e. license fees, gas taxes, etc) and not from general tax funds?

--
I do not have a signature
Re:Impressive: by Roofus · 2003-09-30 07:54 · Score: 1

And what is a "middle of the road" stance on road building?

It means they only paved over the center line in the road. This allowed drivers to make their own lanes. Duh!
Re:Impressive: by Zeinfeld · 2003-09-30 07:59 · Score: 1

It's important to realise that this is *not* an open source development effort for a presidential campaign.
Deanspace have forked Drupal 4.2 and added their own custom modules. They don't actually talk much to the folk at drupal.org (certainly not on the developers list), which is a pity. We've yet to see any contributed code come back to our CVS server.
Sounds to me like you ar griping because the Dean folk forked. Well sorry buddy, that is part and parcel of the OSS game. Anyone can fork anytime.
I suspect that the issue here is more likely to be that the Dean folk who are developing the Web site would not want to be advertised as such on a developer list and the fact that political campaigns tend to be rather hecktic. I would not expect to see much code put back into the source tree until sometime in November 2004.
The Deanies have put the tools out there in the public domain, maybe not in the form you would wish but they are out there.

--
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Re:Impressive: by proj_2501 · 2003-09-30 08:07 · Score: 1

(1) China
(2) Cuba
(3) North Korea
(4) the Communist party in France at least is quite active. Perhaps in other places as well.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:13 · Score: 0

Clark also knows he has an edge because of his extensive military background. At a time when hundreds of thousands of American soldiers are deployed in the Middle East, people will take a hard look at the foreign policy credentials of their presidential candidates.

Clark knows it is stressful to be deployed and tough being away from family, so he's more likely to get his troops home on a timetable (unlike G.W.). And Dean -- I think most people don't really know one way or another how he would handle the situation.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:15 · Score: 0

(what's fair about disallowing gay unions?)
You think that's a problem? I'm trying to marry my toaster, but the media won't even cover my parade.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:19 · Score: 1, Informative

>>It's a fair bet that if either comes in first, the other's on the ticket. They may be a tag team.

I tend to be quite conservative, but I think even I'd vote for that team.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:23 · Score: 0

I swear, some of you /.'ers think that open source is the solution to EVERYTHING
Re:Impressive: by TopShelf · 2003-09-30 08:27 · Score: 1

To even get involved in these races, the egos have to be enormous. As reality sets in over the coming months, however, the VP slot starts to look like a viable option. A Dean/Clark combo has some interesting balance to it, that could present a formidable challenge to Bush/Cheney. While I haven't come even close to picking a favorite candidate, I do have to admit that Dean is by far the most interesting and compelling I've seen amongst the Democrats. They just seem to be a mixture of hapless retreads (Gephardt, Lieberman, Kerrey) and hopeless blowhards (Sharpton and Mosley-Braun)...

--
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:59 · Score: 0

A fork is a vote of no confidence in the development team. A fork without even trying to work with the existing team is a completely gratuitous waste of effort. Anyone impressed that the Dean campaign is involved with Free Software should be annoyed at the ignorant and heavy-handed way they've gone about it.
Re:Impressive: by captainktainer · 2003-09-30 09:53 · Score: 1

I agree with you mostly, but I take exception to the "blowhard" comment about Moseley-Braun. She's a very intelligent, knowledgable woman- she just doesn't have a chance of getting elected. She'd probably be a decent president, though, again, her campaign is largely symbolic.

Sharpton, though, is one of the biggest blowhards there is.
Re:Impressive: by Pave+Low · 2003-09-30 10:33 · Score: 1

Wow...i'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious.
BTW, China hardly resembles a communist system anymore. Please check your current events.

--
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 11:04 · Score: 0

The ideal pair? Dean and Clark. A thinker and an individual who gets things done. What a concept!

We have that now. Bush and Cheney. Or, more accurately, Cheney and Bush.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 13:54 · Score: 0

Clark is also a very poor decision maker. If you don't believe me do two things. Go search in google for a newsweek interview where he wanted to be part of the homeland security (and a republican) but Karl Rove wouldn't return his calls or something. Also, go look up the events in the Bosnian war in 99 about his briliant tactical move where he wanted a British general to have British troops occupy an airbase already occupied by the Russians. The British general refused to because he didn't want to fire on Russian troops (how bizzare huh). So both men took it above them and the British general had support all the way up, Clark had none. Remember he was the commander there and was basically booted out. As I said above, he's a Republican reject. He probably has some populist social ideas which is why he wont fit in the Republican party but the Dems will adopt him.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 17:53 · Score: 0

Well how about you test that out for us, go to China, stand at random street corner with a loud speaker, start taking about free markets, capitalism, and the benifits of democracy. Then see how long you can do that before you're disapeared and turned into a forced organ donor.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 17:58 · Score: 0

We have that now. Bush and Cheney. Or, more accurately, Cheney and Bush.

I think the orignal poster meant that Dean and Clark would get things done for the people of the country, not for their own bank accounts like Cheney and Bush.
Re:Impressive: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-02 04:05 · Score: 0

Er, the Karl Rove comment from Clark was a joke, he said as much.

Right-wingers tried to paint his alleged call to Rove as a sign of hypocrisy, even though it was only a joke. When a search of White House phone logs turned up no calls from Clark, same right-wingers accused Clark of lying, even though it only proved he was honest when he said he'd been joking.

Stupid right-wingers can't take a joke.

Well I'm proud to be a american... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:01 · Score: 0

...where at least I know I'm free (of editors).

Re:Well I'm proud to be a american... by citabjockey · 2003-09-30 08:41 · Score: 1

I would be even more proud with Dean (or reasonable facsimle thereof) in the White House. Getting more and more embarassing to live in the US of A the way things run today

Release of his campaign tools is an indication of how he interacts with folks around him. The grassroots nature of the Dean campaign is a breath of fresh air. Everyone knows that campaign contributions give leverage to the giver. Dean's funds mostly come from you and I. Much rather have someone in the white house that answers to the contry as a whole -- not to a few fat cats.

Too bad not more voters seem to get it. Things really could be different and better!

Previous open-source appeal flops... by griffjon · 2003-09-30 07:02 · Score: 1

Remember Gore's 'secret' HTML comment in the webpage?

"This technique was used most famously by the Gore Presidential campaign, which included a hidden message in the campaign web site. The message began, "Thanks for checking out our source code! ... The fact that you are peeking behind the scenes at our site means you can make an important difference to this Internet effort." From there, the message asked web designers to submit ideas for improving the campaign web site "in the spirit of the open source movement." Ironically, this clever attempt to build credibility among web professionals backfired. Gore was given some credit for the cleverness of the technique, but the internet community roundly criticized him for hypocrisy in claiming to support the open-source movement when, in fact, his entire web presence was built on closed-system technology developed by Microsoft. One Apache programmer likened the message to putting a "Buy American" bumper sticker on a Honda."
---http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?no de=HTML%2 0comments

--
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer

Re:Previous open-source appeal flops... by frankie · 2003-09-30 07:19 · Score: 2, Informative

his entire web presence was built on closed-system technology developed by Microsoft.
That's simply untrue, and everything2 needs to be corrected. Algore2000.com ran Apache+PHP on Linux (1.3.9 in 1999, 1.3.12 in 2000).
FWIW: Bush2000.com ran IIS/W2K, BuchananReform.org ran IIS/NT4, VoteNader.org ran Apache/BSD.
Re:Previous open-source appeal flops... by SLot · 2003-09-30 07:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

Not according to netcraft:

Linux Apache/1.3.9 (Unix) secured_by_Raven/1.4.2 PHP/4.0b3 16-Jan-2000 216.35.210.246 Cable & Wireless

NT4/Windows 98 Microsoft-IIS/4.0 10-Jul-1999 208.206.40.209

So he did switch, but not until 2000. :)
Re:Previous open-source appeal flops... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:37 · Score: 0

Whoa there, cowboy...netcraft also confirmed that BSD is dying, so I would take that with a grain of salt.
Re:Previous open-source appeal flops... by griffjon · 2003-09-30 07:45 · Score: 1

Interesting. I think we should vote for candidates solely based on their web server choice.

NetCraft: The site www.deanforamerica.com is running Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.6.5 OpenSSL/0.9.6e ApacheJServ/1.1.2 mod_fastcgi/2.2.10 on FreeBSD.

In Feb it was IIS5/Win2k, tho, and at a different hosting provider.

--
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
Re:Previous open-source appeal flops... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:49 · Score: 0

Oops. I stand corrected. -F.
Re:Previous open-source appeal flops... by Cy+Guy · 2003-09-30 08:04 · Score: 1

DeanForAmerica is now running Apache on FreeBSD, but was originally running IIS on Win2k.

BlogForAmerica at least recently has been running Apache on Red Hat

But what annoys me most about the Dean websites is howarddean.tv, which not only is STILL running IIS on Win2K, but also requires you to be running a recent version of Windows Media Player and a recent version of IE on Windows to get the streaming content. They have a way of downloading QuickTime versions of some of the videos, but that's assuming you can even navigate the site with the 'wrong' kind of browser. When they have all the videos available in ogg vorbis on a site accessible via LYNX, then we'll know they 'get it'.

A SlashDot interview would be good, but it shouldn't be with Dean himself, it should be with his web guru.

--
Work for Change & GET PAID!
Re:Previous open-source appeal flops... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:19 · Score: 0

It appears that howarddean.tv is operated by a company called Wavexpress through its website, http://www.tvtonic.com. I don't think that Dean's internet staff handles this directly.
Re:Previous open-source appeal flops... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:27 · Score: 0

"howarddean.tv"? Are Tuvaluans now entitled to hold the Presidency? I thought it was restricted to US-born citizens.

Blog already /.ed? by NoSuchGuy · 2003-09-30 07:03 · Score: 0

Is his blog already /.ed?

NoSuchGuy

--
Grundgesetz * 23. Mai 1949 - 30. November 2007 - http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/

A real wake up call by LegalEagle · 2003-09-30 07:03 · Score: 1

If you can't get to Dean's website, you're not alone. I think the Dean campaign is about to get a dose of the Slashdot effect.

Nor did RMS think that he'd... by teks0r · 2003-09-30 07:05 · Score: 1

totally slashdot a presidential candidate.

Nice and all... by toupsie · 2003-09-30 07:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

But will he release his gubernatorial papers under GPL? Right now they are closed source. No one has the right to view them. I am more interested in his political history than some software someone else wrote that he is piggybacking on for publicity.

--
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

Re:Nice and all... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:23 · Score: 0

His papers are not source, and therefore are neither open source or closed source. Governors generally do not spend their time writing code.
Re:Nice and all... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:17 · Score: 0

His papers are not source, and therefore are neither open source or closed source. Governors generally do not spend their time writing code.
but d00d deen hax0red up a gnu for all us ./'ers!!!!!11 he l0vez teh ppl!!!!!!!111
Re:Nice and all... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:58 · Score: 0

Agreed. He should release them.

Are you equally bothered by President Bush's decision to make Reagan, Bush Sr. and Clinton's presidential records secret for much longer than before?

Just saying, because I can't imagine you'd be saying something like this for partisan reasons on Slashdot, now. And believe me, I agree, "they do it too!" is not a defense. Just hope we can get backing for transparency in government for all levels and parties.
Re:Nice and all... by RTMFD · 2003-09-30 09:28 · Score: 1

True, but welcome to the slashdot reality distortion zone. I bet that even if Bush french-kissed RMS while endorsing the GPL, he still wouldn't get the reaction from slashgeeks that Dean does when he uses an open-source CMS.
Re:Nice and all... by toupsie · 2003-09-30 09:39 · Score: 1

Are you equally bothered by President Bush's decision to make Reagan, Bush Sr. and Clinton's presidential records secret for much longer than before?
I am not as bothered by Presidential records as I am about Gubernatorial records. The safety and secrets of the United States are not in the hands of a Governor. There is no reason for a Governor to hide their papers from the public. I can see many reasons of National Security for hiding Presidential records.

--
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Re:Nice and all... by bitchx · 2003-09-30 09:52 · Score: 1

I assume you have read through Bush's Gubernatorial records, or were at least as angry that he didn't release them.

What? You didn't know that Bush didn't release his records? Yet another victim of the Right Wing Spin Machine!

--

I'm the best IRC client ever.
Re:Nice and all... by Darby · 2003-09-30 10:01 · Score: 1

I bet that even if Bush french-kissed RMS while endorsing the GPL, he still wouldn't get the reaction from slashgeeks that Dean does when he uses an open-source CMS.

Well given that Dean hasn't lied for the purpose of sending the country to war, he isn't guilty of going AWOL from his National Guard unit, he didn't fight tooth and nail to prevent an investigation of 9/11 and then try to put a war criminal in charge of the investigation, it is perfectly reasonable to treat the two differently based upon their actions.

How is this a distortion? It is perfectly logical.
Re:Nice and all... by kevin+lyda · 2003-09-30 10:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

you failed to mention that bush's papers as governor of texas are not viewable and that bush was arrested for dwi.

--
US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
Re:Nice and all... by toupsie · 2003-09-30 13:57 · Score: 1

Complete bull feces. Bush's gubernatorial papers are protected by the Texas Sunshine Law and are on display at Texas A&M -- a state university. Google before you type and you won't make a fool of yourself so much in public.
Not everyone that is against Dean and his spin machine are Republicans, just ask Kerry and Gephardt.

--
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Re:Nice and all... by toupsie · 2003-09-30 14:00 · Score: 1

Complete bull feces. Bush's gubernatorial papers are stored at Texas A&M for public review under the Texas Sunshine Law. Google before making a complete fool of yourself next time.

--
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Re:Nice and all... by Hooded+One · 2003-09-30 16:33 · Score: 1

And lo, the top Google results are all about how Bush tried to get around the Public Information Act by passing off his papers as federal property and not state. Gee golly.
Re:Nice and all... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 18:27 · Score: 0

hmmm.... well lets go to google and lets see what the first link is about shal we?

Bush's gubernatorial papers

well well well, will you look at that, one the first link even, it looks like 'ol gov. Bush tried to hide a bunch of his papers in his daddy's presidential library, now why would he do that if he's got nothin' to hide? Well the Texas attorney general says they should be open to the public but they're still sitting at his daddy's library but there's an address in that first link too, how about you write them a letter and see if you can access those papers for a viewing? let us know how that turns out...

....are on display at Texas A&M

maybe a few are but the vast majority aren't

Google before you type and you won't make a fool of yourself so much in public.

How about you take your own advice?
Re:Nice and all... by toupsie · 2003-10-01 00:32 · Score: 1

And are Bush's papers public? Yes. Are Dean's papers public? No.
Case closed. Facts are hard deal with aren't they?

--
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Re:Nice and all... by toupsie · 2003-10-01 00:34 · Score: 1

Thank you for corfirming the availability of the gubernatorial records. Bush's papers are public. Dean's are not. Case closed. Thank you for spinning.

--
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Re:Nice and all... by Hooded+One · 2003-10-01 01:03 · Score: 1

When did I say Dean's were public? No, they're not, and I don't agree with him doing that. However, my point was that trying to pass off Bush as open and honest just doesn't work. He tried his damndest to keep the papers away from the public in spite of the law (whereas Dean is going against no law, though that still doesn't make it ok) and is trying his damndest now to keep his and even other past presidents' records hidden for as long as possible.
Re:Nice and all... by bitchx · 2003-10-01 03:10 · Score: 1

Bush's papers are, in effect, private. They are not subject to the Texas Open Records law, as they are housed in a federal facility. That facility can decline to produce documents and does not have to abide by the 10 day limit that the state law would place on the records otherwise. Spin Machine.

--

I'm the best IRC client ever.

Free Software Voting Machines by jake_the_blue_spruce · 2003-09-30 07:06 · Score: 2, Interesting

A group of computer scientist professors is creating . This is not the same as GNU's Free Software Internet Voting. Given the Diebold fiasco there's a greater need for these than for the software to discuss potential candidates.

--
"There's so much left to know/ and I'm on the road to find out." -Cat Stevens

Re:Free Software Voting Machines by jake_the_blue_spruce · 2003-09-30 07:09 · Score: 1

Weird. Links got mangled.
Academic Free software Voting Machine Project:

http://gnosis.cx/voting-project/announce.html

GNU Free Software Internet Voting:

http://www.free-project.org/

Diebold Scandal:

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/09/23/bev _h arris/index1.html

--
"There's so much left to know/ and I'm on the road to find out." -Cat Stevens
Re:Free Software Voting Machines by smack_attack · 2003-09-30 07:41 · Score: 1

There's a bill being floated that should solve the Diebold dilemma.

--

Hammer of Truth

How to persuade Boston City Council offices. by donsaklad · 2003-09-30 07:07 · Score: 1

How would you persuade Boston City Council offices and our city public libraries department to use other software than the commercial software?...

Dean is not a candidate for president. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:08 · Score: 0

He's a candidate for getting the democratic nomination to become the democratic presidental candidate.

Much like the Adrian Lamo story yesterday didn't have shit to do with the first amendmant, this one doesn't have shit to do with a presidential candidate. Except one might be possibly able to argue that anyone who says they want to be president is a candidate, whereas the Lamo story yesterday really didn't have shit to do with the first amendment.

Can't call him an open-source candidate... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:10 · Score: 3, Funny

...until his genome is sequenced and released under the GNU GPL. Accept nothing less!

DEAN'S BEEN SLASHDOTTED (ASS-RAPED) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:11 · Score: 0

Thanks Taco, wipe out a political site for your own creamy page hits.

The louse from Michigan strikes again.

Dean != Bush by luetin · 2003-09-30 07:11 · Score: 1

As an article in a recent issue of The Nation put it, I would vote for Count Dracula rather than Bush.

Re:Dean != Bush by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:27 · Score: 0

Well, of course. Now that everyone knows Bush is a blood sucking vampire no one in their right mind is going to vote for him again.

At least with Mr. Dracula there's a chance that all those stories are just rumours spread by a vast, centuries old, anti-Dracula conspiracy.
Re:Dean != Bush by Ill_Omen · 2003-09-30 08:17 · Score: 1

Hell, that's nothing... I'd vote for Count Chocula over Bush.
Re:Dean != Bush by rsheridan6 · 2003-09-30 10:24 · Score: 1

I'll sink a notch lower and vote for the Count from Sesame Street over Bush.

--
Don't drop the soap, Tommy!

Bush campaign releases GNU/WMD to garner support by guacamolefoo · 2003-09-30 07:12 · Score: 5, Funny

In other news, the Bush administration has decided to counter the Howard Dean campaign's effort to create a network of weblogs ("blogs") by giving Republican supporters access to the surplus WMD which were recently discovered at Fort Detrick in Frederick, Maryland.

"We hope that our supporters use the smallpox virus in a way that will support our common goals" stated White House insider Karl Rove. "We think that the time has come to deal with the infidel huns who are attempting to thwart our ultimate goal of establishing a reactionary, protestant theocracy with President Bush as Ayatollah. Using smallpox in areas where there are concentrations of liberal and Democratic voters will surely help us to win an outright majority in the next election. Jew York, here comes Itchy and Scratchy!" Rove went on to describe the plan to trade smallpox-infected blankets to residents of New York City in exchange for wampum.

Democrats in Congress criticized the move, calling it cynical at best and mass murder at worst. In the Senate today, Ted Kennedy (D-MA) spoke to the issue, calling the use of biological weapons by Republican campaigners, "worse than anything than Daddy ever did, and that's saying a lot." Senator Kennedy was later found garroted in his chambers in what appears to be the work of a lone assassin. See our related story for information on the investigation, including the appointment of Chief Justice Rehnquist to a commission to investigate the assassination of Senator Kennedy.

Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) chastized the President for the move as well, calling it "barbaric". Senator Clinton was last seen ushering her husband, former President Bill Clinton, into a limosine bound for his office in Harlem. "Bill needs to be in the right place to do the most good during this crisis." Commentators noted that Senator Clinton did not seem alarmed that her husband was going into one of the hardest-hit areas. Staffer John McClintock was quoted as saying that [Senator Clinton] seemed to be "strangely peaceful" as former President Clinton left for Harlem and that "she danced a jig similar to the one Hitler did when his troops defeated the French."

GF.

[just laugh people, just laugh]

--
Lots of petrified grits

killed the Dean website. by bigbinc · 2003-09-30 07:12 · Score: 2, Funny

Slashdot killed the Dean campaign website. He has lost my vote. How can run for President if you cant keep your blog runnning.

--
---- Berlin Brown http://www.newspiritcompany.

Interesting way to get the geek vote by bobaferret · 2003-09-30 07:13 · Score: 1

This is defiantly a novel way to get the geek vote. Plus some of the yonger vote. I just hope it's an honest attempt at open source and not just a vote getting move. What's his record like?

Re:Interesting way to get the geek vote by KillerHamster · 2003-09-30 07:51 · Score: 1

What would interest me would be Slashdot's reaction if Bush had done this first. The overwhelmingly liberal crowd here has nothing but praise for Dean, but I bet if Bush's campaign had done something similar first, either it would be completely ignored or everyone would be desperately trying to find fault with it.
Re:Interesting way to get the geek vote by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:21 · Score: 0

This is defiantly a novel way to get the geek vote. Plus some of the yonger vote. I just hope it's an honest attempt at open source and not just a vote getting move. What's his record like?
Thanks for asking.
Dean's "geek" record:
.
.
.
.
*blip*
.
.
.
.
.
Re:Interesting way to get the geek vote by Chris+Johnson · 2003-09-30 09:03 · Score: 1

Since when would Bush do this?
We already know what Bush's crowd do. There have been articles on the security holes in closed-source black-box voting machines being forced out there.
Can you please not waste our time by implying that Bush could have done the same thing, when his crowd's whole motivation is totally, absolutely the opposite to the point of being a serious fscking threat?
"Oh, but if Bush had done it first" is disingenious and suggests he's not so different. Sorry, man- the record suggests Bush's people are far gone on the other extreme, and that is a legitimate complaint about them.
Diebold, my ass.

Well he's a democrat by Merk · 2003-09-30 07:15 · Score: 1, Insightful

So he'll probably raise taxes on the wealthier to help the poor, undoing the tax cut that Bush passed that gave massive tax breaks to the very wealthy. After seeing a report recently that said that almost 10% of Americans live on less than $8000 a year, it is hard for me to whine about my high taxes.

I'd much rather have a president who knew what the GPL was and raised my taxes than a president who didn't know the difference between a computer and a calculator, but cut taxes blindly.

Re:Well he's a democrat by squarooticus · 2003-09-30 07:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

So he'll probably raise taxes on the wealthier to help the poor, undoing the tax cut that Bush passed that gave massive tax breaks to the very wealthy. After seeing a report recently that said that almost 10% of Americans live on less than $8000 a year, it is hard for me to whine about my high taxes.

You're always free to donate that difference to the charity of your choice, or even to the government if you wish. Don't make that choice for me. I do not happen to agree with you, and don't appreciate you putting your hand in my wallet.

Besides, you are incredibly naive if you think wealth transfer schemes are effective at helping the poor. What they actually do is help some poor, make many more dependent on handouts, and feed the ravenous maw of an enormous, cancerous bureaucracy that dedicates the majority of its resources not to actually helping those in need, but to ensuring its own continued existence.

Private charity is always more efficient than government social programs; private charity lets people feel good about giving instead of resentful that their pocket is being robbed every Friday; private charity enables people to choose methods of giving that are most to their liking.

But, most of all, private charity lets people make their own choices about whether they actually need that extra money at the moment or not, because they are clearly the most informed people about their own needs.

I'd much rather have a president who knew what the GPL was and raised my taxes than a president who didn't know the difference between a computer and a calculator, but cut taxes blindly.

I'd much rather have a president who obeyed his oath to protect and defend the Constitution, and stopped enforcing unconstitutional laws providing for confiscation and redistribution of my wealth to those who didn't earn it.

--
[ home ]
Re:Well he's a democrat by FatRatBastard · 2003-09-30 07:31 · Score: 1

So he'll probably raise taxes on the wealthier to help the poor, undoing the tax cut that Bush passed that gave massive tax breaks to the very wealthy.

I.e. take the easy way out. Ignore all of the waste and graft of the taxpayer money by the federal gov't and simply grab more money to fill the leaky fiscal bucket. Oh how easy it is to spend other people's money:

"Hey Dad, you know that monthly $1000 check you send for tuition, room and board? Well, you're going to have to raise it, because its only the 15th and I'm out of cash..... No, my rent hasn't gone up.... no, neither has tuition.... where did it all go then? NEVER YOU MIND MISTER. Just know that if you don't pony up more cash I'll go cry and sulk about how you're too stingy to pay for my education!"
Re:Well he's a democrat by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:38 · Score: 0

i eagerly await the day when you whiteboy libertarian fuckwits finally manage to inbreed yourselves to extinction.
Re:Well he's a democrat by bitchx · 2003-09-30 07:43 · Score: 1, Insightful

Fall for the right-wing spin much?

If there was any evidence that decreased tax rates increased charitable donations, your scheme might work. As it is, they don't. Our society has chosen to provide a safety net for people who are down on their luck. You might not want to participate in funding that, but that's a decision not made from behind the veil of ignorance, so it's irrelevent.

The graduated income tax and the social welfare system are both constitutional, having been attacked numerous times and reaffarimed without comment by the Supreme Court just as many.

--

I'm the best IRC client ever.
Re:Well he's a democrat by turambar386 · 2003-09-30 07:48 · Score: 1

Perhaps you would be happier in a tax-free nation?

Like maybe the United Arab Emirates?

Go! Now!
Re:Well he's a democrat by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:05 · Score: 1, Insightful

I do not happen to agree with you, and don't appreciate you putting your hand in my wallet.

So you disapprove of President Bush's asking for $87 billion of MY money to support his war in Iraq, correct?

Besides, you are incredibly naive if you think wealth transfer schemes are effective at helping the poor.

I'm not in favor of any wealth transfer schemes. But I do have a problem when the wealthy pay a smaller percentage in taxes than the lower and middle classes. [If you want to dispute that, use all taxes in your calculations not just income]

Private charity is always more efficient than government social programs;

The use of the word 'always' indicates to me that you haven't spent much time thinking about this issue and are simply spouting off nonsense you heard on talk radio.
Re:Well he's a democrat by Salgak1 · 2003-09-30 08:18 · Score: 1

Based on the record, raised taxes primarily benefit civil servants and government contractors. And we all know how efficient THEY are. . . (evil grin). And let's not forget the Corporate Masters of some of our fine Public Servants, such as Fritz Hollings, (D-Disney), Orrin Hatch (R-Novell), and of course, Ted "Chappaquiddick" Kennedy (D-Dewar's White Label)
I'll also note that the truly rich have many ways to shelter their income from taxation, whereas those of us who are quite productive, but not exactly "rich" are hitting the top tax brackets without the benefits of the tax shelters used by the likes of The Donald, and good old Arianna "What Party Am I This Month" Huffington, pays virtually zero income tax to Sacramento OR Washington (Sorry about the FreeRepublic link: it's the best one Google found on the topic. . .)
If you feel that the poor require a larger share of your income, might I suggest you increase the efficency of your contributions by giving directly to the charity of your choice.
But your decision about giving to the poor may not match mine: allow me to choose how I spend my money. I prefer to spend it on raising and educating my children, so they do not BECOME poor. . .
Re:Well he's a democrat by wayward_son · 2003-09-30 08:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'll also note that the truly rich have many ways to shelter their income from taxation, whereas those of us who are quite productive, but not exactly "rich" are hitting the top tax brackets without the benefits of the tax shelters used by the likes of The Donald, and good old Arianna "What Party Am I This Month" Huffington, pays virtually zero income tax to Sacramento OR Washington (Sorry about the FreeRepublic link: it's the best one Google found on the topic. . .)
My income tax plan: First $20,000 is tax free. $40,000 for married couples. Each dependent (child) is an additional $5,000 before taxes kick in. All income after that is taxed at 15%. No loopholes, no exceptions. Eliminate the Earned Income Tax Credit. You should have to pay taxes to get a tax refund. You can adjust the numbers as needed, but that would be a simple and fair tax code. The rich would pay their fair share, no more, no less. The poor would not pay anything.
Re:Well he's a democrat by wayward_son · 2003-09-30 08:33 · Score: 1

I'll also note that the truly rich have many ways to shelter their income from taxation, whereas those of us who are quite productive, but not exactly "rich" are hitting the top tax brackets without the benefits of the tax shelters used by the likes of The Donald, and good old Arianna "What Party Am I This Month" Huffington, pays virtually zero income tax to Sacramento OR Washington (Sorry about the FreeRepublic link: it's the best one Google found on the topic. . .)
My income tax plan:
First $20,000 is tax free. $40,000 for married couples. Each dependent (child) is an additional $5,000 before taxes kick in.
All income after that is taxed at 15%. No loopholes, no exceptions.
Eliminate the Earned Income Tax Credit. You should have to pay taxes to get a tax refund.
You can adjust the numbers as needed, but that would be a simple and fair tax code. The rich would pay their fair share, no more, no less. The poor would not pay anything.
Ignore my first post on this.
Re:Well he's a democrat by squarooticus · 2003-09-30 08:38 · Score: 1

So you disapprove of President Bush's asking for $87 billion of MY money to support his war in Iraq, correct?

No, because that's arguably national defense. Even if you don't agree with the action (and lots of reasonable people are on both sides of the question), national defense is one of those things that the Constitution explicitly allows (and, in fact, obligates) the federal government to do.

--
[ home ]
Re:Well he's a democrat by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:40 · Score: 0

Guess when in the last 50 years there was the most charitable giving in real dollar terms? Yup, the Reagan 1980s.
Re:Well he's a democrat by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:42 · Score: 0

Taxes are the membership dues you pay to participate in this relatively free society they set up so long ago. You can choose not to pay taxes. Fine. I also think you should then lose all rights to any services that in any way owe their existence to paid taxes. Any program ever set up, run, or subsidized by the government (by our taxes) should be off limits. Enjoy the USA!
Re:Well he's a democrat by 4of12 · 2003-09-30 08:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

But, most of all, private charity lets people make their own choices about whether they actually need that extra money at the moment or not, because they are clearly the most informed people about their own needs.

It doesn't let all people make that choice.

Only those people with lots of money get to make that choice.

If you lived a month as a poor person you'd notice that your "choices" and your "opportunities" are rather more limited than what you've enjoyed to this point in your own life.

Many wealthy people will choose to keep their money rather than give it away. If the proposed changes in the estate tax laws are instituted you can guarantee that a signficantly larger number of wealthy people will exercise their free choice to give money to their own offspring rather than some charity. Count on it.

I prefer equal opportunity for everyone, so that anyone exercising the same hard work and intelligence gets the same pay off. But if you're not lucky enough to be born to the right parents then your "choices" and your "opportunities" are a lot different.

Yes, I earn my money. But it was in a society that provided me with a tax-sponsored public education system and government-guaranteed student loans (which, yes, I did pay back) that would not have existed but for taxes raised by the government.

Yes, wealth transfer schemes like welfare can breed a sick culture of dependence. If there's a good way to cut down on welfare fraud without instituting a bureaucracy, then you ought to let your elected representatives know the solution.

But if you eliminate welfare altogether, you'll start to see more beggars on the street dying from hunger and lack of medical attention. We can live just like they do in Brazil, which has private charities and gangs of five year old abandoned children running around the slums scavenging food.

I am one taxpayer that has benefitted substantially from the recent Bush tax cut and it disgusts me that such a tax cut is instituted at the same time that we're compounding the federal deficit at a record rate.

While the rest of the masses two decades in the future try to pay off the interest on that federal debt, the rich folks like you and me can simply sit back and collect interest on our T-bills. After all, we deserve it.

--
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Re:Well he's a democrat by Elfan · 2003-09-30 09:26 · Score: 1

I'd much rather have a president who obeyed his oath to protect and defend the Constitution, and stopped enforcing unconstitutional laws providing for confiscation and redistribution of my wealth to those who didn't earn it.

I sure hope that wasn't ment to be a reference to Bush. He seems to be doing everything in his power to pass FDR as the man responible for the largest expansion in government power.
Re:Well he's a democrat by bitchx · 2003-09-30 09:34 · Score: 1

Post the 1986 TRA only. You know, the Bill Bradley authored TRA that removed all those exemptions so that effective rates on the very very rich went up? Yes, in 1987 charitable giving was the highest in real dollar terms, probably because in 1987 there were no tax loophones to funnel income through that were more beneficial, because Bill Bradley closed them all. I'm not sure how that proves your point about lower taxes and charitable giving, but if you say so.

--

I'm the best IRC client ever.
Re:Well he's a democrat by Darby · 2003-09-30 09:37 · Score: 1

Each dependent (child) is an additional $5,000 before taxes kick in.

Forget it.

Why should I subsidize your choice to have children?

By making that choice you are using more services, costing more tax dollars than I am and you want to pay less?!?

Sorry. I have no interest in that. How about All ambidextrous people pay no taxes no matter how much they make? Benefits me nicely.

If you want to make a fair system, than try to make it fair, rather than beneficial to you at the expense of others.
Re:Well he's a democrat by kableh · 2003-09-30 09:38 · Score: 1

Well no shit. But at the same time he gives back huge sums to the wealthiest of the wealthy, and drives us further into recession, and wrecks what was once a balanced budget, he's asking those of us actually paying taxes to bankroll the war he got us in so he could help the same wealthy buddies he just gave a handout to.

Man, what a sentence =D

Paying taxes is the price you pay to be a part of our society. Why everyone gets in a huff about it just seems silly to me. Many of my coworkers say they vote Republican because they want lower taxes. My (silent) question to them: Don't you give a fuck about the legacy - our country, our world, our oceans, our sky - you leave for your kids?

As you can see, I have strong opinions of my own, that probably don't align with yours, but what the hey =)
Re:Well he's a democrat by bitchx · 2003-09-30 09:44 · Score: 1

The government collected 1 trillion dollars in income tax last year. You propose cutting the average tax rate in about half, on top of providing an exemption twice as large.

The only proposal you include as a cut is the EITC - at a net savings of 31 billion dollars. You still owe the system at least 470 billon dollars. What's the next cut?

--

I'm the best IRC client ever.
Re:Well he's a democrat by kableh · 2003-09-30 09:45 · Score: 1

Actually, if you take the time to read Dean's platform, you'll find he's got quite a sound fiscal policy, and knows that he will have to tighten the pursestrings to get us back on a balanced budget. Can he win with a platform that might call on Americans to *gasp* sacrifice? Will be interesting to see.

And I don't know what point you were trying to make, nor your political leanings, but wouldn't you charecterize Bush as doing exactly what you decry? He's spent our hard earned tax dollars to give a tax cut to his cronies, and then turned around and started an expensive war that we'll all be bankrolling for years to come.
Re:Well he's a democrat by anagama · 2003-09-30 10:16 · Score: 1

Fair taxes would include the idea that society as a whole should not suffer because of the personal choices individuals make. I personally would like to see no exemptions for dependent children.

Why should I pay more simply because other people are breeders/too horney to slap on a rubber. It's like paying for sex but not getting any - a perverted type of prositution.

I also don't want to see married people get some sort of break just because they got they got hitched. So, I think a better a way would be individual tax returns for everyone. A married couple would still get $20k each, but if one decided he/she only had to work part-time, the remainder of the exemption would not apply to other's income. This would treat all individuals equally, unlike our present system, which provides financial incentives for questionably useful goals.

--
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Re:Well he's a democrat by Fiver-rah · 2003-09-30 10:25 · Score: 1

I'd much rather have a president who obeyed his oath to protect and defend the Constitution, and stopped enforcing unconstitutional laws providing for confiscation and redistribution of my wealth to those who didn't earn it.
So you're voting against the people who brought you the Patriot Act and who are asking for more money so that they can keep handing contracts in Iraq to their cronies in closed processes without bids? Good to have another Dean supporter on board.

--
Read Bujold. Free (as in
Re:Well he's a democrat by Fiver-rah · 2003-09-30 10:29 · Score: 1

[N]ational defense is one of those things that the Constitution explicitly allows (and, in fact, obligates) the federal government to do.
Gives Congress the right. Not the executive branch.
If you're going to quibble constitutionality, get the Constitution right, dammit. The Constitution gives George Bush even less right to declare war than it gives Congress the ability to tax and spend on education.

--
Read Bujold. Free (as in
Re:Well he's a democrat by FatRatBastard · 2003-09-30 10:47 · Score: 1

It wasn't a response to either Bush nor Dean's policies, simply to the "tax the rich and help the poor.. that'll help" mentality of the post.

And I don't know what point you were trying to make, nor your political leanings, but wouldn't you charecterize Bush as doing exactly what you decry?

Somewhat... he's coming off as a big gov't Republican, which isn't good (IMO).

He's spent our hard earned tax dollars to give a tax cut to his cronies,

Disingenuous. Actually, not disingenuous, but flat out wrong. He didn't spend *your* or *my* hard earned tax dollars. A tax cut is just that a cut in taxes Unless your tax rate went up the amount of extra money spent on your behalf was exactly squat. Your argument is the equivalent of jumping up and down in a grocery line claiming the right over the money the guy in front of you saved from his coupons.

and then turned around and started an expensive war that we'll all be bankrolling for years to come.

Well, wars aren't cheap, and orthogonal to this conversation anyway. What was the point of brining it up?
Re:Well he's a democrat by the+argonaut · 2003-09-30 11:40 · Score: 1

Sorry you don't want to pay taxes to support welfare programs. I feel you pain man. I don't want to pay taxes to buy anymore tanks, bombers, nukes, depleted uranium shells, sketchy "star wars" missile defense systems, or to subsidize anymore nuclear power plants, coal companies, oil companies, sports stadiums or job-cutting taxpayer-gouging white-collar criminal CEOs.

Take heart in the fact that at least your team is doing better than mine.

Unfortunately, you'll just have to come to terms with the fact, as I have, that part of that whole bargain of being a citizen of a nation is that sometimes your government will do things you like and sometimes it will do things you don't like, but in the end you have to live with it all, or if it bothers you that much (as it does me), then you can vote, write letters to your representative or senator (which as far as I can tell will go unopened, but you'll get a nice form letter in exchange for your letter), go volunteer or donate to your local political organization or advocacy group or whatever.

And as far as once again whining about how unconstitutional your income taxes are, you may want to read that part of the consitution after the original articles, the one titled AMENDMENTS.

And finally, I can point to a number of wonderful private charities that would apparently surprise you as to how inefficient they are, a good number of them run by Bush's man Ralph Reed.

--
fuck you.
Re:Well he's a democrat by squarooticus · 2003-09-30 11:43 · Score: 1

You recall that there was a vote on military action in Iraq and it passed, right? That in fact many of the Democrat presidential candidates themselves voted for it, right?

Right?

--
[ home ]
Re:Well he's a democrat by squarooticus · 2003-09-30 11:48 · Score: 1

drives us further into recession

What evidence is there of this? If anything, the economy is recovering at a record pace. I don't think it's any coincidence that it started almost to the day that dividend tax relief went into effect.

Paying taxes is the price you pay to be a part of our society.

Only because you've been conditioned to believe this. Paying taxes is the price you pay for common defense and the enforcement of property rights. Nearly everything else has been added through, ah, shall we say, creative interpretation of the Constitution.

Don't you give a fuck about the legacy - our country, our world, our oceans, our sky - you leave for your kids?

Yeah, I do. Don't think you leftists have a monopoly on the moral high ground. You don't. Just because I don't agree with your methods for achieving a happy, prosperous world doesn't mean I'm against it. Such a statement is incredibly insulting, and demonstrates both arrogance and tremendous ignorance.

--
[ home ]
Re:Well he's a democrat by squarooticus · 2003-09-30 12:01 · Score: 1

I sure hope that wasn't ment to be a reference to Bush. He seems to be doing everything in his power to pass FDR as the man responible for the largest expansion in government power.

Agreed. I am not a Bush cheerleader. But at least he's willing to let me keep more of my own money. That's something none of the Democrats will do.

--
[ home ]
Re:Well he's a democrat by d3faultus3r · 2003-09-30 12:06 · Score: 1

You know, if you oppose handouts for the poor, you should oppose handouts for failing businesses like many of the airlines and the telcos get. The taxes you pay don't just go to social services, they also go to infastructure, education and the police and military.

--
read my blog
musings on politics and technol
Re:Well he's a democrat by squarooticus · 2003-09-30 12:14 · Score: 1

You know, if you oppose handouts for the poor, you should oppose handouts for failing businesses like many of the airlines and the telcos get.

Absolutely. I am a huge opponent of any welfare, the corporate kind included. But why people decry the corrupting influence of corporate welfare and not that of personal welfare is beyond me: they both send the signal that government has something for sale, and all you need to do is buy it with votes/campaign contributions. They are the same thing.

--
[ home ]
Re:Well he's a democrat by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 13:41 · Score: 0

The reason Social Security is on track to become insolvant is because the ratio of workers to retirees will become unsupportable. There are plenty of reasons to subsidize children, and that is one of them.
Re:Well he's a democrat by ces · 2003-09-30 13:44 · Score: 1

Agreed. I am not a Bush cheerleader. But at least he's willing to let me keep more of my own money. That's something none of the Democrats will do.

The problem is someone is going to have to pay for Bush's spending spree eventually. Unfortunately that someone is the American taxpayer.

Lowering the perceived creditworthiness of the US Treasury isn't a bright idea. Just look at any country that has gotten itself caught in a credit crisis.

--
Happy Fun Ball is for external use only.
Re:Well he's a democrat by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 13:54 · Score: 0

It looks like someone forgot to take his medicine this morning.
Re:Well he's a democrat by Fiver-rah · 2003-09-30 14:13 · Score: 1

I wasn't the one that was claiming, without merit, that taxation, for something other than defense, was unconstitutional. Any position you take which attempts to defend that line or argument must come into logical conflict with the executive branch having the power that they've been given, regardless of who authorized it.
My point wasn't that the war was unconstitutional, but any reader of the constitution who believes that we should abide strictly by What the Words Say and ignore two centuries of interpretation should recognize that the executive branch is far stronger here than a strict reading of the Constitution also prevents Bush from doing what he's done--destroying the balance between the executive and the legislative branch.
Now, do you want to give one reason why it's unconstitutional for the government to tax for education?

--
Read Bujold. Free (as in
Re:Well he's a democrat by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 14:37 · Score: 0

Why should I subsidize your choice to have children?

Because in having children, and paying to raise them, I'm subsidizing your choice not to have children

It will be my children, who will pay taxes when you are no longer a member of the workforce. It will be my children who will be working and providing the goods and services you will still require after you retire.

In choosing not to have children you are being a free rider, and therefore it is with perfect justice that you are asked, during you life as a taxpayer, to make a contribution.
Re:Well he's a democrat by squarooticus · 2003-09-30 16:05 · Score: 1

Agreed that it isn't smart to run up a huge deficit. OTOH, there's something to be said for not spending a huge surplus in the good times so it can pay for the bad times. Just as a typical household has credit, the government does also and should use it wisely.

--
[ home ]
Re:Well he's a democrat by bigmattana · 2003-09-30 16:13 · Score: 1

But if you eliminate welfare altogether, you'll start to see more beggars on the street dying from hunger and lack of medical attention. We can live just like they do in Brazil, which has private charities and gangs of five year old abandoned children running around the slums scavenging food.
I very much doubt this. I guarantee you that if you could donate money voluntarily to various charities on your tax returns, and if all the rich liberals (example: Hollywood) put their money where their mouth is, we would not have such problems. At least, not any more than they already exist. If we were to do everything possible to support charities and encourage charitable contributions, and it still didn't work, then you could say that welfare is necessary. But that hasn't been tried since before there were strict laws and regulations to keep the corrupt from being the only ones to become wealthy or have power. With all of the laws we have today, I seriously think we could get rid of welfare.
Well, almost. I think we still need it for the mentally ill, but I think it only needs to be given if there is no local charity to serve properly. (This is a very complicated situation because no matter how generous a town is, some may not be able to provide proper care for certain people, and cooperation among charities is not guaranteed.
This whole debate boils down to this: If the government can take as much of your money as they want (OVER HALF OF THEIR EARNINGS FOR SOME PEOPLE), then people don't have the right to their own property. So why the hell do liberals believe the right to kill the unborn? What's next, the government claiming the right to your child before you are born? Life has been reduced to property which you can do with as you please, but you can't do what you want with your money, which has no life, feeling, or soul? I can kill my unborn child because it is "MY" property (even though it is really only half mine and if I want to destroy it I was being stupid when I created it) but money, which I worked hard to earn (which should be rewarded) will get taken from me and given to someone who doesn't work but it mentally capable of it.
A country is only as good as its people. We need to have a country in which morals are valued, and it is EXPECTED that you would give money to charity if you can. If you don't have enough faith in our people to take care of those who need it voluntarily, then our country is doomed anyway.
Re:Well he's a democrat by Merk · 2003-09-30 16:16 · Score: 1

Well said... and I might add, I wasn't saying that the government should be Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and blindly giving to the poor. I think the poor should be given things that are hard to exchange for money: Free basic healthcare, free basic education, free basic food, etc. That would remove the incentive to just be lazy and take money, but would keep people healthy and educated. I'm not saying that most poor people are lazy, far from it, but I do know people who are lazy and have taken advantage of programs meant to help people who really need it.

Taking care of everybody, rich and poor is just good common sense. Even if you're a cold-hearted bastard who couldn't care less about poor people dying of disease, you should note that if poor people are catching the plague, unless you completely cut yourself off from them, you'll probably catch it too.
Re:Well he's a democrat by Merk · 2003-09-30 16:23 · Score: 1

What about if "Dad" takes care of food, lodging, education and health care, that's it. I don't think that systems where poor people are blindly given cash are the answer, but I think it just makes sense to take care of everybody's basic needs. If what you provide is difficult to turn into money, then the incentive to be a lazy bum is gone, but those who truly have trouble making ends meet are not forced to either cut out health care (and risk passing on disease to others), or turn to crime because it's all they know.
Re:Well he's a democrat by whatch+durrin · 2003-09-30 16:47 · Score: 1

I'm not in favor of any wealth transfer schemes. But I do have a problem when the wealthy pay a smaller percentage in taxes than the lower and middle classes. [If you want to dispute that, use all taxes in your calculations not just income]
What you're really promoting here is socialism/communism. You fail to recognize that in a capitalistic society, some people will prosper and some will not. This is just a fact of life.
Comparing one rich person to one poor person, there are common needs such as food, medicine, housing, etc. Does the poor person pay more as a percentage of income than the rich person? Yes. So what.
The real solution to the problem you present is to enact a fair tax system, such as a national sales tax. You can make all the money you want, and it's all yours until you go to spend it.
That would make you happy, right? Or does it not fit into your Robin Hood story?

--
***
Radio Shack. You've got questions...we've got blank stares(TM).
Re:Well he's a democrat by FatRatBastard · 2003-09-30 18:16 · Score: 1

What about if "Dad" takes care of food, lodging, education and health care, that's it.

I completely agree. Unfortunatly, its easier said than done with the gov't. Have you ever been around any state or local agency at the end of a fiscal year? They spend like crazy. Why? Because there's the mentality that a) "its our money (since it had been allocated to us) and b) if we don't spend it we'll lose it next year. Almost all gov't funds are calculated year from year not by what's *needed*, but by how much was allocated the year before. Thus, spend all your given this year (and find any reason to justify it) and you'll get at least the same, if not more, next year. So, you may only spend half your allotment on your "mission", but you'll spend all of your cash, even if it means the whole office gets new furniture, computers, etc.

Now, a lot of large companies are no different: bureaucracy is bureaucracy, *except* in companies, from time to time (especially when profits start lagging) you will do things like close unprofitable divisions, consolidate, etc. This *Never* (let me repeat *NEVER*) happens in gov't. Where's the accountability? Its not like you're selling a product or a service needed to backroll operations. Gov't gets money from taxes. What's easier to do, raise taxes or actually fire gov't workers (even ones with cause: i.e. theft, cronic absenteeism, inability to do job) and eliminate gov't programs?

Read some GAO reports on gov't waste some time.. it'll piss you off.

So, basically what do you do? Every single agency is going to report each fiscal year that they have to have, at bare minimum, the exact same amount of money as last year, if not more. No agency is going to actually say "hey, you gave us too much loot last year, only give us 80% the amount this year." So, if you want to keep gov't expenditures under control your only option is to cut the money supply. You tell agencies "guess what, you're getting 90% of what you got last year... make it work." Cutting money supply = cutting tax revenue (since the gov't does a lousy job at not spending surpluses) = tax cut.

Yes, this leads to everyone and their brother screaming "you're cutting our funds, we won't be able to do our jobs" but the fact of the matter is there is no other way of trying to keep gov't spending in check.

No standard jokes? by Aspasia13 · 2003-09-30 07:16 · Score: 0

What, there's no "I, for one, welcome our new Open Source Overlords" jokes?

not important by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:18 · Score: 0

>I wonder if RMS thought he'd see a US presidential candidate releasing stuff under the GPL when he founded GNU 20 years ago!

all RMS wants to know is, "emacs?"

Listening? by EvilStein · 2003-09-30 07:18 · Score: 1

Probably not. They're too busy asking Georgy Russell (www.georgyforgov.com) if she wears boxers or briefs.

If Slashdot gets ahold of Dean.. let's hope they'll actually ask *decent* questions instead of stupid stuff.

Re:Listening? by MAXOMENOS · 2003-09-30 08:24 · Score: 1

Everyone knows she wears thongs!

--
Finding God in a Dog

Software Government Incentive by buckhead_buddy · 2003-09-30 07:21 · Score: 1

I served in a leading capacity on a university government (and I don't mean to compare the governing of a university to the governing of a state or country).

Sometimes they were changes that were meant to protect everyone from new regulations. Sometimes they were changes to cut costs or eliminate incredible redundancy from systems that had evolved over decades.

It was very difficult to get certain groups, people, and factions of the governed to change. Sometimes they were being asked to give up a privilege, power, or money that they wanted to keep. Sometimes they were just ingrained in having done something the same way for years and "didn't want to".

I found that incentives were the best way to make the governed swallow such bitter pills. Certain incentives cost a lot of money (printing brochures, sending people to seminars, etc), but making software and giving it to people willing to change their bueracracy was a very cheap way I could get things done.

"Keeping track of all those forms is a nightmare, but here's some software specially designed for this task. You can have it for free if you'll just change over to this new way of bookkeeping."

The first taste of this software was always hard and usually involved handing over cash or help to transition the information. Later on, annual upgrades to the look and feel or new features made it trivial to force new regulations on the goverened. In most cases, unless this were a regulation being forced on us by the government, these were just voluntary upgrades and people could go on using older versions and keep whatever privilege/power/money they had. Eventually though, after two or three "upgrades" they'd find something compelling to force them to come back in line.

Because of it's cheap cost to create and it's high value to others being given the software, there was no other incentive that was as economically powerful.

But back to the Dean campaign. It's great that he's giving away his software. It's great for standardization that he's making it GPL. But what makes me uncomfortable is that by cutting out custom software that I was the only vendor of in the government, I'm would lose a lot of power to force others to do things the way I want. I have to go back to governing by fiat "You'll do it my way and I won't accept any other" than by these software incentives because people will be able to download software for their particular governence area on the web.

Sorry, but I take this as a bittersweet change.

Dean: Constitutional Rights Are Negotiable by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:21 · Score: 0

from here (material in italics mine):

Dean said Wednesday he believed that the [September 11th] attacks and their aftermath would "require a re-evaluation of the importance of some of our specific civil liberties. I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street."

Dean said he had not taken a position on these questions. Asked whether he meant that specific rights described in the Bill of Rights -- the first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution -- would have to be trimmed, the governor said:

"I haven't gotten that far yet. I think that's unlikely, but I frankly haven't gotten that far. Again, I think that's a debate that we will have."

MOD PARENT UP by TamMan2000 · 2003-09-30 07:22 · Score: 1

Fnkmaster has it right.

I spend 8+ hours a day on something that was 'scientifically impossible' less than a century ago, supersonic flight...

I don't think faster than light travel is possible, but to say that you know it is impossible is a little short sighted.

--
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...

Re:MOD PARENT UP by cens0r · 2003-09-30 07:30 · Score: 1

When was supersonic flight scientifically impossible? People liked to believe that it was impossible, but there was not mathmatical basis for this belief. In fact a century ago we did have things travelling faster than the speed of sound (bullets come to mind). Saying that supersonic flight was scientifically impossible a century ago is like saying the sun being the center of the galaxy was scientifically impossible 400 years ago. They both may have been beliefs common at the time, but they were only beliefs as there was no imperical evidence to back it up.

On the other hand, every mathmatical model and piece of imperical data we have says that any partical with mass will never be able to be accelerated to the speed of light.

--
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
Re:Mod parent up by atallah · 2003-09-30 07:32 · Score: 1

Unfortunately, and this should be a commentary on the sad state of the nation, you are right that he will be re-elected - the worst part about it is that he won't need to rig anything.
Re:MOD PARENT UP by cyberlync · 2003-09-30 07:41 · Score: 1

Well, if you are going to use that example then today we have things going faster then the speed of light. Of course, the thing thats going faster then the speed of light is light itself, but hey its still going faster too. Of course light doesnt have mass, but still.

Also if nothing goes faster then light how do you explain quantum entanglement, instant communication between two enagled pairs of atoms.

I am not sure that we can *ever* go faster then light, but if we don't try we will never know now will we. The fact that clark has the vision and strength of character to talk about this is awesome.

--
I'm a programmer, I don't have to spell correctly; I just have to spell consistently
Re:MOD PARENT UP by jbottero · 2003-09-30 07:47 · Score: 1

I spend 8+ hours a day on something that was 'scientifically impossible' less than a century ago, supersonic flight...

8 hours a day??? Most actively flying Air Force pilots don't spend 8 hours a day fly supersonic, even if they *did* fly 8 hours a day... And, the Concorde has been grounded. But, reasonable Troll attempt.
Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:53 · Score: 0

Um...an engineer who spends 8 hours a day on supersonic design work is still "spending 8 hours a day on something". I think you misinterpreted what the original poster was saying.

Gary Gygax used to spend 8 hours a day on dragon killing - doesn't mean he was actually killing dragons...
Re:Mod parent up by Salgak1 · 2003-09-30 08:01 · Score: 1

That assumes it was rigged last time. The evidence doesn't support that theory, and when was the last time the Republicans successfully concealed a conspiracy. . .
Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:05 · Score: 0

Way to misread the post.
Re:MOD PARENT UP by aborchers · 2003-09-30 08:11 · Score: 1

Take a philosophy of science course and you will find that what we believe and what our models and empirical data can verify are not necessarily as disjoint as the received view perpetuates. The history of science is littered with unworkable models (not opinions or beliefs, but theories developed with the scientific method) that were falsified by observational and theoretical advances but were in their time accepted as truths about the Universe.

Every mathematical model and piece of emperical data available to Newton couldn't explain the precession of Mercury's perihelion, either, until the relativitistic theory you cite as dogma was developed early last century. For the record, we also now have emperical data that strongly suggest f.t.l. phenomena. Someone else has already mentioned quantum entanglement in this thread...

--
Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
Re:MOD PARENT UP by TamMan2000 · 2003-09-30 08:15 · Score: 1

Don't ask me to quote any texts or articles of the time, but...

The accepted belief of the scientific community was that humans could not go faster than the speed of sound because the shock wave would kill them.

I don't really understand why they thought that, it is pretty clear to me from compressible flow theory that the area behind the shock (behind the front of the aircraft) is just a normal subsonic flow region. But I don't understand why the earth used to be flat either, I guess being born after all the breakthroughs in that area makes it hard for me to approach things from their point of view.

--
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Re:Mod parent up by Rayonic · 2003-09-30 08:18 · Score: 2, Funny

when was the last time the Republicans successfully concealed a conspiracy. . .

Well, there was the 2004 election...

Oh wait, Gen. Clark told me to keep quiet about the whole time-travel thing. Forget I said anything.

--
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
Re:MOD PARENT UP by Hard_Code · 2003-09-30 08:21 · Score: 1

Believing something to be possible but fatal to humans is an entirely different thing from believing it to be impossible in the first place.

--

It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Re:MOD PARENT UP by __past__ · 2003-09-30 08:22 · Score: 1

And people might find that the impossibility of travelling faster than light is also nothing more than a common belief, based on faulty logic or invalid assumptions. You can never prove that something is impossible, only that it is possible or existent by showing/doing it (and there is plenty room for error even then).
At least, that is how we think about science today. It may of course be that the assuptions behind this science are false themselves. Try proving the validity of logic itself :-)
Face it, science is a social phenomenon like ethics or fashion - all working completly different, of course, and on dramatically different time scales. Our current way of thinking about absolute truth and scientific proofs will probably look as laughable and inherently flawed in 1000 years as the way of thinking usual 1000 years ago looks to us now. There is no absolute truth. At least, it is not recognizable by humans.

--
Programming can be fun again. Film at 11.
Re:Mod parent up by TamMan2000 · 2003-09-30 08:24 · Score: 1

when was the last time the Republicans successfully concealed a conspiracy. . .

If it was successfully concealed none of us would know about it...

--
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Re:MOD PARENT UP by DG · 2003-09-30 08:27 · Score: 1

Wouldn't wormhole travel qualify as an example of "possible, but fatal"?

And it's FTL too.

Look, I think Gen. Clark is smart enough to realize that, according to all current evidence, FTL travel is impossible, and that the evidence supporting this is very very good.

But that doesn't mean you stop looking for a possible solution. Who knows? Maybe there IS a way around it, and the stars can be ours.

In the meantime, this sounds like a man willing to invest in spaceflight and research in general. It's been a while since the Yanks had somebody that visionary in charge.

DG

--
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
Re:Mod parent up by bongoras · 2003-09-30 08:30 · Score: 1

and when was the last time the Republicans successfully concealed a conspiracy. . .

Um, not to be too obvious but... if the conspiracy was sucessfully concealed, then we wouldn't know about it, would we?
Re:MOD PARENT UP by FL180 · 2003-09-30 08:54 · Score: 1

Try proving the validity of logic itself :-)

You have to use it to disprove it. It's unavoidable.

There is no absolute truth.

Is that absolutely true? If not, then there is. If it is, then it disproves itself.
Re:Mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 10:21 · Score: 0

Who needs to conceal anything with current voter apathy? Maybe you should look more into the connections between ChoicePoint, the Florida elections, and the Republican party. For the future, look into Diebold and the statements of its CEO to Ohio Republicans. These should be national scandals, but the increasingly conservative mainstream press refuses to report on these issues.
Re:MOD PARENT UP by Nucleon500 · 2003-09-30 12:00 · Score: 1

I don't think that travelling through a wormhole is faster than light. It just means that point A and point B were much closer than you thought. Just because you found an alleyway that cuts a 10 minute trip down to 2 doesn't mean your Model T can do 50.

--
Litigious bastards
Re:Mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 14:24 · Score: 0

Well, there was the 2004 election...
successfully concealed a conspiracy. . .
Re:MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 18:34 · Score: 0

> Try proving the validity of logic itself :-)
You have to use it to disprove it. It's unavoidable.

You would only have to use logic to convice people who are pursuaded by logical argument. For instance the argument, "Logic is the creation of Satan to tempt us from Faith," is not a logical argument, but it does 'prove' the invalidity of logic.

> There is no absolute truth.
Is that absolutely true? If not, then there is. If it is, then it disproves itself.

1. The statement itself not being absolutely true does not prove the existence of any absolute truth.

2. The parent poster obviously meant to write, "there are no absolute first-order truths."

Re:Old Joke by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:22 · Score: 0

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
Good joke, and I agree.

Misguided by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:22 · Score: 1, Insightful

I am so amazed whenever slashdot mentions a candidate, they put it in the context of what technologies they support. Is that the only thing that matters in your lives? What kind of gadgets and software you have?

What about important issues like:
freedom of speech
privacy rights
abortion

Who cares what technology the politician supports? What about their moral character?

Re:Misguided by Distan · 2003-09-30 08:15 · Score: 1

You left out the right to bear arms. What is wrong with you, what about the real issues?
Re:Misguided by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:16 · Score: 0

>>Who cares what technology the politician supports? What about their moral character?

Duh. Because, in this day and age, the technology you support is one of the purest representations of your moral character.
Re:Misguided by LucidityZero · 2003-09-30 08:31 · Score: 1

I am so amazed whenever slashdot mentions a candidate, they put it in the context of what technologies they support. Is that the only thing that matters in your lives? What kind of gadgets and software you have?

Last time I checked, this is a technology-news site. That's like asking for information about a new Apache bug on a Political forum...

--
Sig.i>
Re:Misguided by Chris+Johnson · 2003-09-30 09:00 · Score: 1

Freedom of speech, privacy rights: the guy's a Vermonter, we're strong on that stuff.
Abortion: I'm pretty sure he's not going to criminalize that, ever. Maybe that bugs you.
You forgot to mention right to bear arms. Dean is strongly in favor of right to bear arms. After seeing what the Bush crowd have got up to in a few short years, I am with him, never mind 'bowling for columbine'. Yeah, abuse of guns is a plague and it's tragic, but we will not need Islamic terrorists to get ourselves a police state if the citizenry is disarmed and subjugated and tracked and controlled.
You also forgot to mention budgeting: Dean is way more fiscally conservative than Bush, and he would cut spending, probably tax the rich some more, and get closer to a real budget even if it hurt him. Here in Vermont he ran our budget well for what, ten years? And we're still not hurtin' that bad even now. The country needs that.
The supporting of open-source software is icing on the cake and a guarantee that the guy has a clue about tech things. That's a bonus- he was already doing pretty good for a politician.

Probable reason the site is down... by almaw · 2003-09-30 07:23 · Score: 4, Informative

It's entirely likely that Dean's site doesn't have the caching module enabled (which it isn't by default). With it, there's only one SQL hit per page. Without it, the entire page gets built for every page-view (slooooow).

Drupal.org has caching enabled, and therefore hasn't fallen over (yet). But we don't have all that much bandwidth, so it's being *very* slow at the moment.

I've been developing Drupal for a few months now. It has a very active developer community and continues to get more flexible and modular with each successive release. It's much more extensible and better architected than (for example) PostNuke.

We're also coming up on a new release (4.3) which should go RC in the next few days. If you're thinking of trying it out, I'd recommend either waiting for that, or getting latest CVS tarball - things are much nicer than 4.2!

Re:Probable reason the site is down... by JonBob · 2003-09-30 07:29 · Score: 1

Hear, hear.

I've been overwhelmed by the competence and friendliness of the Drupal dev community. Most OSS projects I've been part of have one but not both of those.

If in the market for a blog, a community site, or a portal, give Drupal a serious look.
Re:Probable reason the site is down... by louissypher · 2003-09-30 07:41 · Score: 1

Hell, my website is just linked to by drupal.org and my site dead.

--
www.bleepyou.com
Re:Probable reason the site is down... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 13:06 · Score: 0

It's entirely likely that Dean's site doesn't have the caching module enabled (which it isn't by default). With it, there's only one SQL hit per page. Without it, the entire page gets built for every page-view (slooooow).

I think the site's also getting a lot of hits because midnight tonight marks the end of the fundraising cycle and people are checking in to see if the campaign will reach its fundraising goals ($15 million this quarter)

THIS IS NOT A TROLL!! by BlackBolt · 2003-09-30 07:23 · Score: 2, Funny

Although the shouting in the title definitely makes it LOOK like a troll...

Guys, I got a problem. This isn't related to this topic exclusively, but for ALL Gnu articles here... Okay, here it is. The icon for "Gnu is not Unix" here at Slashdot doesn't really look like a Gnu at all. It looks like a giant penis carrying a security blanket. Really. Take a close look at it. Are those two big red balls supposed to be feet? What does that logo MEAN?

We need to change that logo to something that doesn't have hidden meanings. I suggest the typical Gnu head (no pun intended) that RMS uses on his website.

Re:THIS IS NOT A TROLL!! by Chuck+Bucket · 2003-09-30 07:28 · Score: 1

I completely agree, I've always wondered what the hell that icon was supposed to be, and now with your suggestion that's all I'll image from now on. The 'real' GNU looks to be the better and more consistant choice. MOD PARENT UP!

(don't get me started on the fact that there's no Gentoo topic icon...)

CB

--
free ipod and free gmail!
Re:THIS IS NOT A TROLL!! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:38 · Score: 0

DAMNIT! Now I will forever see a giant penis carrying a blanket when I see that. Before I used to think "what an odd little icon"... now I see a giant penis!
Re:THIS IS NOT A TROLL!! by waferhead · 2003-09-30 15:07 · Score: 1

My GOD, he's right!!!!!!!!!
(Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooh)

/. Interview is the perfect way by Phoenix666 · 2003-09-30 07:23 · Score: 4, Interesting

to directly communicate our views on technology policy to government. Most of our representatives couldn't even tell you what the DMCA is, much less give two shakes about why it's bad. They're in the pockets of special interests.

But it occurs to me that the Dean campaign is the best shot we have to turn the fight for online freedoms around. They're an organization that's volunteer-run, so it's not beholden to special interests. They use OSS to run their site and various tools, and now they're open-sourcing their stuff, so they're going to understand why free software is so important. Finally, as a tech-driven campaign they're predisposed to sympathize with our take on issues like privacy, frivolous patents, etc.

And as far as I know, they haven't yet expressed any kind of position on tech issues. So a /. interview would be the perfect opportunity to imprint their campaign and let them know we're out here.

--
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.

Re:/. Interview is the perfect way by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:47 · Score: 0

"now they're open-sourcing their stuff"

What?

They are using GPL'd software that someone else wrote and are legally obligated to release their modifications. What exactly is this ' their stuff' that are they 'open-sourcing'?
Re:/. Interview is the perfect way by bitchx · 2003-09-30 09:56 · Score: 1

No, they are not. They are required to provide the source along with any binaries they provide. Using the GPL internaly does not require you to release changes you made internaly. The Dean campaign did not have to release anything.

--

I'm the best IRC client ever.
Re:/. Interview is the perfect way by licketyspit · 2003-09-30 10:25 · Score: 1

I'm no expert but as I recall the DMCA was sponsored by the Democrats. Also I recall recall Democrat congressman Adam Smith saying the free software philosophy is "problematic and
threaten(s) to undermine innovation and security." Just because Dean's campaign manager is pro-open source doesn't mean anything's going to happen if he Dean gets into the white house. Even if he could persuade his fellows in the house and senate to follow his campaign manager's lead they still don't have the votes to affect a change. The house and senate are currntly under the control of the republicans.

Almost had me by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:23 · Score: 0

You know, I took an honest look at his webpage after viewing this, looked at his stance on the issues, and if it wasnt for him trying to push universal health care he may have almost had my vote. I never vote dumbasscrat or retardicant, usually because they have one issue that bugs the crap out of me, where I cannot in good mind vote for them. Oh well, I dont think there will ever be a candidate that represents me. I could do sliding on a few of the minor things I dsagree with, but the problem with major candidates is they usually have a major issue they are pushing that I disagree with. I dont care for all of his policies, but most of them are minor enough, but he pushes Universal Healthcare like theres no tomarrow. bummer ..... Vote for me!

I wonder... by holzp · 2003-09-30 07:23 · Score: 1

If Hemos and Taco thought they would see a slashdotting of a US presidential candidate's blog five years ago?

Mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:24 · Score: 0

Sadly, the comment is insightful. Bush will be re-elected, even if he has to rig the votes (again) to do it.

RMSLand by fm6 · 2003-09-30 07:25 · Score: 1

I wonder if RMS thought he'd see a US presidential candidate releasing stuff under the GPL when he founded GNU 20 years ago!

RMS's goal was and is to get rid of "non-free" software, which he considers immoral. If he had any vision of 2002, it would have been of everybody using the GPL, or something similar.

Petty of me to pick this nit, but: RMS did not "found" GNU. He founded FSF. GNU is not an organization, it's an operating system, intended as an alterntive Unix. And, like his other grand plan, it is still unfinished!

Re:RMSLand by phr1 · 2003-09-30 07:40 · Score: 1

RMS founded the GNU project, and the FSF was formed afterwards to handle organizational aspects of doing the GNU project.

Re:I am impressed [OT] by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:26 · Score: 0

I looked at your homepage, and although you're a libertarian, I highly doubt you benefitted or will benefit from the Bush tax cuts. Or any tax cuts for that matter. If cutting taxes magically stimulates the economy the government grows from growth in tax revenue in other sectors (sales taxes, taxes on businesses, etc.)

I feel so inclined towards libertarian beliefs, but when I see a dude in a tie died t-shirt talking about how great tax-cuts would be I go into paroxysms of laughter. Do you have some large estate (>$250,000) that's going to be passed onto you that you don't want to be cut in half by estate taxes? I doubt it. Or do you just believe the mouthpieces for the top .001% (income-wise) of the population. Us IT people are sitting in the 1% bracket getting paid by people in the .5% maybe.

MOD THIS *drupal* DEVELOPER UP, BITCHES! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:27 · Score: 0

What up, drups?

Not necessarily by HMV · 2003-09-30 07:28 · Score: 1, Troll

Was Dean just as "geek friendly" when the campaign spammed users back in August?

Dean is going after low-hanging fruit. Go up to your average voter and mention that Dean released software under the GPL. Go ahead. After you get the brook-trout stare, consider the much-ballyhooed blogs of these candidates. High-tech tools to preach to the choir.

Great for shoring up the base, maybe a little grass-roots organization. Then throw in Clark or someone who actually affects the campaign on more than window-dressing geek issues and see how irrelevant it all becomes.

Re:Not necessarily by Hard_Code · 2003-09-30 07:50 · Score: 1

Not that I am pro-spam in any way, but this type of thing is pretty much "campaign 101". Everybody does it. And the lists are all so polluted these days, nobody is sure (and the mailing companies are probably too corrupt) who is opt-in and who is not.

From the article you cite:

"WE RECENTLY CONTRACTED with two vendors who made assurances that their lists were opt-in only," the campaign said in an e-mail to CNET News.com. "On Tuesday, August 12th, Dean for America received notification from a supporter that spam was being sent. We terminated our relationship with both vendors immediately."

Clark has entered the race late and although he does have some nice qualifications he has been more or less presented himself as carboard cut out...I see no inspiration, no ideas, no passion, no indication that he really cares much. A Clark/Dean combo would be absolutely killer though, regardless of who's on top of the ticket.

--

It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Re:Not necessarily by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:54 · Score: 0

I have to agree. Dean's campaign manager seems to like to do lot's of publicity stunts. It's interesting, and it is effective at getting people engaged in doing something. But it's not important to the political process.

The reality is you still need boots on the ground at the precinct caucuses, endorsements from the super delegates and so forth. Dean's engaging people, but it's not the type of engagement that is helpful towards winning anything.

What I fear is that the people he's bringing in and are going to become disillusioned when the wizards steps out from behind the curtain. I hope that's not the case, these people are important to the election!

Re:Dean: Constitutional Rights Are Negotiable by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:28 · Score: 0

Actually, Gov. Dean is a huge supporter of the Bill of Rights, and has led the charge against the unconstitutional Patriot Act. He is very opposed to what Ashcroft is trying to do -- the sneak peeks, and looking at library records, etc. Dean is a strong defender of our rights -- I think these quotes are misleading, as he was talking about much tinier changes than what we've really seen.

Vote for someone who is smart! by Futurepower(R) · 2003-09-30 07:30 · Score: 1

To all the not-so-smart U.S. voters out there: For reasons no one understands, we aren't all intelligent. When it comes time to vote for a presidential candidate, however, if you aren't intelligent, please don't vote for someone like yourself! A presidential candidate needs to have powers of analysis, for example.

Time to stand up Slashdot. by mightycthulhu · 2003-09-30 07:30 · Score: 1

(From http://www.deanforamerica.com/)

At midnight on Tuesday, September 30th, the fundraising deadline will close for FEC filing purposes.
...
Click here to contribute:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute
...
Can we raise nearly $2.5 million in 36 hours? I know we can, because on June 30th, when we had 130,000 supporters, you raised more than $819,000 in 24 hours. You have shown the power we have when we join together in common cause.

Time to stand up Slashdot.

Re:Time to stand up Slashdot. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:39 · Score: 0

Um... but that would help Dean get elected. Why would anyone with even the slightest shred of common sense want that to happen? Just using free software does not a president make. Don't screw the country by getting behind this clown because he pandered to you in an attempt to divert you from looking at his cracked up positions on the issues.
Re:Time to stand up Slashdot. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:44 · Score: 0

I don't see this as "pandering" at all. Also, since you have already spent time writing here, would you mind defining "cracked up positions on the issues"?

Differing viewpoints are great and encouraged, it would be nice though to at least have a substantive discussion.

actually .. the site is up and running by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:31 · Score: 0

Albeit slowly. It is much faster for anonymous users as the pages are being cached.

Drupal runs some other very big sites like kerneltrap.org and debianplanet.org.Drupal rocks.

I have been using it for more than a year, and it is very very modular (actually, i was doing drupal development when i got the mail saying we'd been slashdotted. )

Drupal features a great caching engine , aswell as an auto throttling module, which counts how many hits the site has had in the last few minutes and ups the amount of caching that happens. (among other things). It is possible to tune drupal to be a very resillient high traffic website .. but this sadly takes some experience in the matters.

Drupal has also been notibly used for entire classes as a teaching aid.

Some other drupal features

Oh .. and it can do everything from run a development site to a personal weblog (mine. heh)

since it's gpl'd by b17bmbr · 2003-09-30 07:31 · Score: 1

this means that republicans can use it is well. (and yes, there are republican free software advocates out there.) i hope they realize this. they obviously want to help dean with his campaign, but what if a republican, or even another democrat, was to use this software? would they complain? i wonder.

--
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.

Hey, are you talkin' about George W. Bush? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:32 · Score: 0

Okay, how manny peeple think the parint post is anti-Bush?

Re:I am impressed [OT] by squarooticus · 2003-09-30 07:32 · Score: 1

I looked at your homepage, and although you're a libertarian, I highly doubt you benefitted or will benefit from the Bush tax cuts.

Already have. Not much, but the tax cuts haven't fully phased in yet. But every extra dollar from my paycheck that I get to keep is an extra dollar I get to spend the way I want, whether it's for consumption, investment, or philanthropy.

If cutting taxes magically stimulates the economy the government grows from growth in tax revenue in other sectors (sales taxes, taxes on businesses, etc.)

All taxes should be cut, along with all social programs. The only things the federal government should be funding are the military and the courts. Everything else should be handled by private industry and state/local governments.

I feel so inclined towards libertarian beliefs, but when I see a dude in a tie died t-shirt talking about how great tax-cuts would be I go into paroxysms of laughter.

I'm guessing I make more money than you do.

Do you have some large estate (>$250,000) that's going to be passed onto you that you don't want to be cut in half by estate taxes? I doubt it.

No, and if I did, you'd be conducting class warfare against me instead. You can't have it both ways.

--
[ home ]

Software details? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:32 · Score: 0

I've played around with Drupal a bit, and I'm wondering what exactly makes this software different from a regular Drupal installation?

Are there extra modules? What are they?
Did they make changes to the base Drupal code? What did they change and why?
Or is it just some extra themes and graphics, and a few changes to the default settings (i.e., which modules are selected and which are not, user rights, etc.)?

Anyone know what they've changed?

Serious omission in the story by almaw · 2003-09-30 07:33 · Score: 4, Interesting

The real link to the site for the community behind this is deanspace.org. The deanspace software is based on drupal 4.2. It'd be nice if the developers over there contributed back to the Drupal codebase - it's dangerously close to a fork, and needn't be. The upcoming Drupal 4.3 has some features 4.2 is lacking, and is much more user-friendly. It'd be a pity to lose these when a fork isn't necessary.

New party? by Stonent1 · 2003-09-30 07:33 · Score: 1

How about a new political party based around more open standards. We could call it the Open party. We could make one of it's key points to implement more things into the government that are based on open standards. Maybe even fund more open projects.

Before or After? by squashed · 2003-09-30 07:34 · Score: 1

I would have expected him to release it after the conclusion of the primary or the general election.

So, I suppose it's time for forking, to service the other candidates (and parties).

Free software and the government by pknut · 2003-09-30 07:35 · Score: 1

Reading this news item reminded me of a point that Lawerence Lessig makes 'Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace'. He observes that governments are able to push hidden agendas by regulating software makers, instead of using the law.

Free software counters this ability by allowing the public to examine the software. If Joe Hacker doesn't like what the software does, then he can alter it. The important result of this is that it forces the government to openly legislate if it wants to prohibit, for example, some online activity.

I believe that (democratic) governments should be as open as possible. Free software helps to achieve this role. Howard Dean using and promoting free software is hardly a major step, but at least it's a start.

FTL == time travel by frankie · 2003-09-30 07:36 · Score: 1

it's good we have a presidential candidate who is smart enough to understand the implications

It's too bad you don't understand the implications. Any method (wormholes, tachyons, "warp drive", etc) to reach a velocity higher than c is mathematically equivalent to a time machine. Unless you and Clark are secretly smarter than Einstein and Hawking, it can't be done.

p.s. teleportation-type methods involving "hyperspace" might be a loophole, but so are angelic chariots and/or pixie dust.

Re:FTL == time travel by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · 2003-09-30 07:56 · Score: 1

But General Clark was talking about FTL, not the implications of FTL.
I mean, one of the implications of the Bush tax cut might be that TRACK-YOUR-POSITION will buy more video games, but it would be pretty misleading to post a link to George Bush's ideas on TRACK-YOUR-POSITION's video games.
One of the implications of time travel might be that General Clark can travel into the past and have sex with his great great grandparents, so are we justified in posting a link to Clark's ideas on causally paradoxical incest?
Essentially, Clark was dreaming of a Star Trek-style future--a cute, impossible, but harmless dream for a presidential candidate. Very much different than dreaming of Back To The Future, which would be absurd and inexplicable.
Re:FTL == time travel by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:39 · Score: 0

Any method (wormholes, tachyons, "warp drive", etc) to reach a velocity higher than c is mathematically equivalent to a time machine.
Any method to accelerate to a velocity higher than 0 is also mathematically equivalent to a time machine too. It is quite possible, indeed normal, to transport one's self forward in time.
Re:FTL == time travel by Sivaram_Velauthapill · 2003-09-30 11:13 · Score: 1

Any method (wormholes, tachyons, "warp drive", etc) to reach a velocity higher than c is mathematically equivalent to a time machine. Unless you and Clark are secretly smarter than Einstein and Hawking, it can't be done.

Einstein isn't as smart as he seems :) Some of his key views such as a deterministic universe (as opposed to probabilisitic) are wrong.

I believe in time travel. FTL may not be possible; I don't believe that to be plausible method. However, things like worm holes and Tippler cylinders are quite "possible". There is nothing in science that says a worm hole cannot exist, or that a Tippler cylinder cannot be constructed (Hawking claims the latter isn't possible but isn't an impossibility).

Sivaram Velauthapillai

--
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places ;)
Re:FTL == time travel by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 13:41 · Score: 0

Einstein isn't as smart as he seems :) Some of his key views such as a deterministic universe (as opposed to probabilisitic) are wrong.

He was a product of his time, thus one of the last classical physicists. His latter mathematics (working on the unified theories) show he embraced QM, even if it was just a means-to-an-end sort of embrace.
Re:FTL == time travel by peachpuff · 2003-09-30 18:39 · Score: 1

"Unless you and Clark are secretly smarter than Einstein and Hawking, it can't be done."

No, that's not true.

If I come up with a brilliant theory that happens to be wrong, and someone with down syndrome flips a coin and decides to disagree with me, I'm wrong and they're right.

--
-- . . ramblin' . . .

cool by Simple-Simmian · 2003-09-30 07:37 · Score: 0

This is really good for the GPL and Open Source in general. Now to get the rest of Washington, all political parties and, 50 states to do the same kind of thing. I still will vote for one of my cat first however but this is cool.

--
If you don't like what I write don't be a CS and mod it down. Refute it.
Yea I can't spell. So what is your point?

Hey... by TexVex · 2003-09-30 07:38 · Score: 1, Flamebait

"American" should be capitalized, you insensitive clod!

--
Fun with Anagarams! LADS HOST, SHALT DOS. HAS DOLTS. AD SLOTHS, HATS SOLD. ASS HO, LTD.

That's nothing... by tbase · 2003-09-30 07:39 · Score: 4, Funny

Isn't the Bush campaign releasing software for both touch-screen and online voting? Ok, so they're not releasing it, just making sure the companies who are don't have any competition. Or have to bid. Or make it secure. Still, it's going to have a way bigger impact than anything Dean does. ;-P

--

666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast

Re:That's nothing... by rpillala · 2003-09-30 13:36 · Score: 1

Here and I thought the Bush campaign was in the pocket of the punch card ballot machine lobby.

Ravi

--
When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
Re:That's nothing... by tbase · 2003-09-30 14:31 · Score: 1

Well he was, until they outlived their usefulness :-)

--

666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast

Not quite... by jbottero · 2003-09-30 07:41 · Score: 1

That's a gnu-candidate thank you.

That's "GNU/Candidate".

If I might call your bluff by benwaggoner · 2003-09-30 07:42 · Score: 1

Okay, you've got strong opinions. I hear a lot of this kind of comment, and since we're on Slashdot, I can ask you a question back! Let's see what kind of policy you're imagining.

So, specifically, which programs would you cut and by how much?

What policies would deal with the potential gaps between what private charity can provide and the needs? The last time the USA didn't have a significant welfare state, private charity was manifestly not up to the task of providing adequate services for all (although it did a good job for some).

What proportion of income do you imagine the average citizen will put into private charity a year? How much are you willing to personally commit to giving?

How much deficit are you willing to accept?

Based on those savings, and target deficit, how would you distribute the resulting tax increases or decreases? You don't have to confine yourself to income taxes - look at all federal taxes, including payroll, social security, capital gains, and corporate.

If you could run things, what do you see as a better distribution?

--

My video compression blog

looking for florida geeks with time on their hands by kraksmoka · 2003-09-30 07:42 · Score: 1

i'll host some dean sites if you want to run them. i have a lamp setup and can install this thing (i'm fairly sure) in a matter of minutes. just email me at my /. email

--
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel

A slashdotting on the last day of the quarter? by apsmith · 2003-09-30 07:43 · Score: 1

Thanks slashdot - how's Dean's campaign supposed to raise that last minute cash now that you've brought their site down! Couldn't the story have waited till tomorrow? :-)

--

Energy: time to change the picture.

Re:A slashdotting on the last day of the quarter? by seanr1978 · 2003-09-30 07:50 · Score: 1

Sad thing is, the people on the Dean blog caused it themselves (myself included) by intentionally peppering slashdot writers with emails about it. Needless to say, none of us thought that slashdotting the site would bomb it. Shit, that hurts!
Re:A slashdotting on the last day of the quarter? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:51 · Score: 1, Informative

MOD PARENT UP. The Dean Campaign is trying to raise 1 Million dollars online today. It was already getting a lot of traffic from blog addicts. The last thing it needed today was a slashdotting. I bet the server admins are going crazy right now.

Also, the Official Blog runs on Moveable Type, not drupal. Only the deanspace.org project is drupal-based.
Re:A slashdotting on the last day of the quarter? by seanr1978 · 2003-09-30 08:09 · Score: 1

I'm not happy with MovableType either, BTW. The fooking thing never saves my userdata, and since it has no user registration, there's no easy way to weed out the trolls - though a fellow blog addict came up with the fabulous idea of donating to the Troll Goal fund every time a troll posts (they've run several off that way). ;)
Re:A slashdotting on the last day of the quarter? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:25 · Score: 0

I think they've hit the breaking point with Moveable Type. This is not the first time its gone down. I think they should either move to drupal, or to slash. John Edward's blog is running slash, though it's way too heavy on the graphics and it's been dumbed down significantly.

More information on the project by zrosener · 2003-09-30 07:44 · Score: 1

DeanSpace development comunity - Website : DeanSpace.org Articles: http://drupal.org/node/view/2267 Wired News http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,59497,00 .html Dan Gillmore http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/650 1101.htm Reason Online http://www.reason.com/links/links081303.shtml Hesie Online (german) http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/jk-26.08.03-00 1/

+5 insightful by alex_ant · 2003-09-30 07:44 · Score: 1

Don't you slashdiots realize there are much, much, much more important things going on in the world right now than the debate over the intricacies of software patents? Voting for a candidate on the basis of whether they support free software is like voting for a candidate on the basis of whether they like blue moon ice cream.

Re:+5 insightful by Fiver-rah · 2003-09-30 08:05 · Score: 1

You mean like health care, the ballooning federal deficit, the environment, and equal rights for all?

--
Read Bujold. Free (as in
Re:+5 insightful by alex_ant · 2003-09-30 10:34 · Score: 1

I was thinking more along the lines of the ballooning size of Cowboyneal's hemmorhoids, but those are all important too

www.deanforamerica.com is hosted by Convio.com by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:47 · Score: 0

See the powered by icon
Looking at netcraft, they use :
FreeBSD, Apache, ApacheJServ, openssl etc.

Re:I am impressed [OT] by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:48 · Score: 0

http://world.std.com/~mhuben/faq.html

Posted without comment.

Betterly Formatted by zrosener · 2003-09-30 07:49 · Score: 5, Informative

DeanSpace development comunity - Website : http://DeanSpace.org
Articles: http://drupal.org/node/view/2267
Wired News http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,59497,00 .html
Dan Gillmore http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/650 1101.htm
Reason Online http://www.reason.com/links/links081303.shtml
Hesie Online (german) http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/jk-26.08.03-00 1/

Does Dean need Slashdot? by stomv · 2003-09-30 07:51 · Score: 1

Maybe not. Most USian slashdotters will vote for Bush, or against Bush.

But -- all Dem hopefulls could always use help
* with finances, the sooner the better
* with grassroots efforts. This is Dean's strongsuit.

Dean will get the vote of the anti-Bush USians, if he wins the Dem primary. But to win the Dem primary, he needs their support sooner. Doing an interview with slashdot might help convert folks that will vote for him should he win the Dem primary to actually help him win the Dem primary.

--
Support a few technologists in Washington.

Re:Does Dean need Slashdot? by Jeremi · 2003-09-30 08:10 · Score: 1

Not to sound too much like a shill (I'm just an unpaid fan, honest), but if you want to contribute to Dean's campaign, today is an excellent day to do it, because today is the last day of the 3rd fiscal quarter for FEC filing purposes. That means that contributions received today will be reported in the 3rd quarter, and (like it or not) a campaign's viability is usually measured by the press in terms of how much funding the campaign is receiving. So a contribution to Dean today will be more useful in terms of reinforcing Dean's image as a serious candidate than a contribution tomorrow will be (although I'm sure he'll welcome a contribution tomorrow too ;^))

Also, if you want to hear more from and about Howard Dean, be sure to check out his interview on NPR's Talk of the Nation yesterday. His performance in this interview is a great example of why people are so excited about his candidacy.

--

I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.

yes, a proper decoration by kraksmoka · 2003-09-30 07:53 · Score: 1

of course, being a rhodes scholar and still maintaining a scientist's idealistic view of the world, that science can overcome. leaving a top military post and avoiding cynicism.

look, kennedy (god bless his adulterous soul :) said off to the moon in ten years. maybe Clark will send us to mars and direct the start of it. rather spend it there than iraq. don't skewer the man, he has only been running for pres for 2 weeks, not his whole life.

--
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel

Re:Old Joke by seanr1978 · 2003-09-30 08:01 · Score: 1

What makes you think you have to post such rubbish on a poublic forum? Have you no sense of decency???

What is next Buckley on P2P? by glenrm · 2003-09-30 08:02 · Score: 1

What is next Buckley on P2P? Whoops to late.

--
Onward to the Aether Sphere!

Re:What is next Buckley on P2P? by InfoVore · 2003-09-30 09:59 · Score: 1

Thanks for the link. Nice to see Buckley is still a twit and still completely misses the point.

--
"These laws they're passing won't even compile anymore, let alone execute." - anon

Voting Software by SlipJig · 2003-09-30 08:03 · Score: 2, Interesting

I want to see the Dean campaign (or somebody!) release software implementing alternative voting methods. Everybody's talking about voting machines, but not many are talking about the software and algorithms, which make more of a difference IMHO. Dean has expressed support for Instant Runoff Voting (IRV), but there are better methods out there.

I've built an online poll demonstrating these methods (see my sig), but I wouldn't call my stuff release-worthy just yet (it's pretty slow, and I lost my source in a HD crash last week anyway)...

--
Read my keyboard review.

The first AC was right by TamMan2000 · 2003-09-30 08:08 · Score: 1

I am an aerospace engineer

--
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...

Re:The first AC was right by rifter · 2003-09-30 08:47 · Score: 1

I am an aerospace engineer

And the other guy is an insensitive clod! :)

Re:Dean Win Would Guarantee Bush Victory by seanr1978 · 2003-09-30 08:18 · Score: 3, Informative

That's bullsh**. Howard Dean is loved by the left, but he's not that far to the left. He's nowhere near as liberal as Dennis Kucinich or Dick Gephardt (who both chide him for being too moderate!), for example. Dean is really not much further left than Clinton was, especially when you look at his record as governor of Vermont. He ballanced the budget 11 years in a row, set up a rainy day fund that has kep their budget balanced even now (unlike here in Virginia! *GAG*), and has a perfect A rating from the NRA due to his policies in Vermont and his stated belief that most gun laws should be left to the states.

Does that sound like the left wing freak Lieberman and the bogus DLC want you to think he is? Note also all the republicans actively supporting Dean (he's doing for the Dems what McCain did for the reps four years ago, only much better).

Karl Rove said he wanted Dean to win, but Rove is an ignorant son of a mother who is about to learn the meaning of "Be careful what you wish for!"

Other free software support by citabjockey · 2003-09-30 08:19 · Score: 2, Funny

Given all the donations that the Calif recall candidate Cruz Bustamonte received from Indian tribes I am suprised he is not releasing patches for Apache.

Re:Other free software support by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:44 · Score: 0

Under that same premise, shouldn't Gary Coleman then be releasing code from Gnome?

Since we slashdotted them by gdesignrr · 2003-09-30 08:22 · Score: 1

It's the end of the quarter - a big fundraising day for the candidates.
Since we slashdotted them and you can't see the site, here's the link if you want to give them some support

http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute

Personally I like to support this sort of thing (the GPL software, not the slashdotting)

Faulty Logic by sethadam1 · 2003-09-30 08:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

That logic, while sound on the surface, is frankly, a disgrace to US politics. It encourages people to vote for someone purely as a defensive measure.

The system works properly if everyone votes for whom they feel is the best candidate. Curbed voting like this puts less qualified, but more well known, candidates in office (probably why Bush is in office in the first place).

While I get where you're going, you're essentially contributing to the demise of independants or third parties. You're saying "It's no use, so don't bother."

You have to have some faith in democracy, even though it doesn't always work right.

Re:Faulty Logic by Jeremi · 2003-09-30 09:42 · Score: 1

The system works properly if everyone votes for whom they feel is the best candidate.

How I wish that were really true. But the fact is, in an election with more than 2 candidates, it's possible for two similar candidates to split the vote, allowing the third candidate to win even though for the majority of the voters he is the worst choice. This isn't just a theoretical concern, either -- it arguably happened in both the 1996 and 2000 US Presidential elections.

See my .sig for a reform that would help address this problem (or choose your own alternative reform... I don't too much care how the problem is addressed, as long as it gets addressed)

--

I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.

Dean's campaign manager is Linux savvy.. by cowmix · 2003-09-30 08:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

Joe Trippi, Dean's campaign manager, used to be an advisor to Progeny
(a commercial version of Debian started by the Debian founders). Joe
is very tech and Linux savvy. He has stated that the way he has been running
the Dean campaign was inspired by how Open Source software works.
I have been pretty active with the Dean folks for a few months and
I think what he is saying is no BS, it really seems very open
and two way like Open Source software.

Dean? He spamed me by ferrocene · 2003-09-30 08:25 · Score: 1, Informative

I'm not going to vote for a spammer. Unsolicited is unsolicited.

--
Most folk'll never lose a toe, and then again some folk'll...

Re:Dean? He spamed me by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 10:25 · Score: 0

Shut your pie hole, you pretentious, uneducated cocksucker.
Re:Dean? He spamed me by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 15:54 · Score: 1, Interesting

They contracted a company that sent out spam. When they realized that they had hired a company that has spammed, they discontinued the contract.

Please help me support the Republicans by rock_climbing_guy · 2003-09-30 08:26 · Score: 1

Please help me support the Republicans by /.ing Dean off the internet!!!

--
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???

You just think it's great. . . by Salgak1 · 2003-09-30 08:27 · Score: 1

. . .I used to do politics on the side, and I've noticed a pattern: until the nomination is set, there's always a huge emphasis on grassroots efforts, neighborhood organization, etc.

Until the primary/caucus/nominating convention is over.

Then the "pros" push all the activists aside, and do it their way. I've seen it on both sides of the aisle and ideological spectrum: my expectation is, that should Dean get the nomination, he'll go with the pros as well. . .

Re:You just think it's great. . . by fm6 · 2003-09-30 08:41 · Score: 1

I completely agree. Did you mean to respond to this post? Or maybe to the main story? Slashdot is confusing that way.

capital letters by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:30 · Score: 0

it's American, not american

Great, stop spamming me. by The+Lynxpro · 2003-09-30 08:34 · Score: 1

I am not voting for you, Mr. Dean, even if you do get your party's nomination. I never visited your website, never participated in any web-based discussion on your politics, and I am not registered as being a member of your party. Therefore, I request that you stop spamming my email accounts. I will believe in the validity of the penis enlarging pill offers being sent to my email account before I believe in your campaign rhetoric...

--
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*

Re:Great, stop spamming me. by tunesmith · 2003-09-30 11:38 · Score: 1

Yeah, I call bullshit. There have been a couple of occasions where the Dean campaign hired firms to handle email outreach, where the agreement was for them *not* to spam, where the firms broke the agreement, and where the Dean campaign severed ties with the firms. I personally have been on their mailing list from the beginning and followed their instructions to specify I wanted no email about donating, and I haven't gotten one since. This campaign is acting with a hell of a lot more integrity about campaign donations than you'd expect from a campaign.

--
skkkoooonnnggggkkk ptui

Dean gets "A" from NRA by dogfart · 2003-09-30 08:38 · Score: 0, Offtopic

OT, but Dean received an "A" rating from the NRA while governor.

Those concerned with SECOND amendment rights should pay heed. I's also nice to see a candidate of either party buck the general party line on an issue.

See http://gunownersfordean.blogspot.com/

--

"dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope"

keep time travel technology away from the Dems... by The+Lynxpro · 2003-09-30 08:38 · Score: 1

"More candidates should do this. Frankly, I'd be interesting in hearing more about General Clarke's ideas on time travel. (Follow the link... he actually talks about this. I kid you not)."

Great. Keep time travel technology away from the Dems, lest they make it possible that Al Gore DID actually invent the internet... :)

--
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*

MOD PARENT UP by LucidityZero · 2003-09-30 08:41 · Score: 1

Time to stand up Slashdot.

I'm a broke college kid, but I found $20 to spare that I just contributed. I agree with mightycthulhu! Let's do something here!

--
Sig.i>

Apple connection by The+Lynxpro · 2003-09-30 08:43 · Score: 1

Al Gore invented the Internet but (kinda) lost the elections. Common knowledge.

No, but Apple did nominate him to their board of directors. And just a few short months later, the U.S. Navy places a large order for Mac hardware pre-loaded with Linux. Coincidence???

--
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*

Re:Dean Win Would Guarantee Bush Victory by Chris+Johnson · 2003-09-30 08:46 · Score: 1

You can't trust articles like that- at some point you have to consider who actually can do the job in question.

BTW- that's one obnoxious, spazzy, popup-flinging site, and the FIRST SENTENCE is "The left has long sought to dumb down America understanding that the more ignorant America becomes the less resistance liberals will meet as they push their agenda."

Are you insane? You're actually using this guy as a resource for giving advice to the demos? I have little love for the Democrats but goddamn! I would do the opposite of what this guy says because he's probably trying to sabotage the Dems. He talks like a psychopath.

Dean's not as left as some people would like- try Kuschinch (sp) for that. Dean is fiscally conservative. He's handled my state's budget (Vermont) well enough that we're not anywhere near as hosed as, say, California, financially. He's pro-gun: ESR-ites out there might like that. And he's got a legitimate beef against the Bush crowd- I mean, come on. Read that 'insightful' (ha!) opinion piece, read it, don't just take 'Jack Comics' word for it: the author thinks we all should be lining up behind Bush for the flag salute! With advisors like that you don't need enemies.

I'll go out and vote for ANY dude against Bush. Period. I think Dean would do the best job of actually doing the work of patching up the country again, though. Clark would make a cool VP, I'm thinking. The traditional democrat candidates sitting around waffling and reading polls, I'd hold my nose and I'd watch out for them if they got power, because they're weasels. And so is CK Rairden, and so is 'Jack Comics'. Dean's not a weasel. He's not perfect, he's a politician, but he's not a weasel.

why should software be free? by dafoink · 2003-09-30 08:48 · Score: 1

I just wonder why software should be free but people are willing to pay for other products and services. Why stop at software code? If it is going to be free, why not do everything for free: Support, documentation, upgrades, etc. What makes the act of coding different than the act of documenting or supporting.

Also, in the government sector, they pay for things like stoplights, fork lifts, dump trucks, etc. Why shouldnt these products be free too? If we are willing to give our code away for free ALL companies should give ALL products away for free.

I am sorry but I have put food on the table. Why should I work for free?

Re:why should software be free? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:21 · Score: 0

You shouldn't work for free; you should charge for the labor of writing the software. You shouldn't dictate how anyone may use or modify the software once you've written it--with other products and services, what you've paid for is actually yours.
Re:why should software be free? by Jeremi · 2003-09-30 09:34 · Score: 1

The difference is that the marginal costs of software reproduction are (for all practical purposes) zero. That is, once the code is written, the second copy of the program (and the 3rd and the 4th and the nth) cost approximately nothing to recreate. That's what makes it worth it in many cases to give the software away for free -- the benefits of many eyeballs, open standards, easy access, etc outweigh the trivial costs of distribution.

Unfortunately, support and upgrades don't work that way -- the more people you support, the more time and money it takes to do so. You could probably justify free documentation if you wanted to do it, though.

--

I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Re:why should software be free? by dafoink · 2003-10-01 00:41 · Score: 1

where do marketing and distribution costs come into play?
Re:why should software be free? by dafoink · 2003-10-01 00:47 · Score: 1

then who pays for my time if I cannot get the $$ from distribution? Do I have to goto Redhat and attempt to sell to them? If I don't get a major software distributor to pay for my development time, then the only way I can make money is on custom development. Custom development becomes then very expensive for the customer as apposed to purchasing off the shelf products.

I cannot use a manufacturing model like Nike, etc. who's cost for manufacturing their product is very cheap once they have developed the initial product because of offshore manufacturing, automated assembly lines, etc. Kinda like how manufacturing cost goes down in software manufacturing once the product is initially developed.
Re:why should software be free? by Jeremi · 2003-10-02 03:50 · Score: 1

For many open source projects, marketing and distribution are handled informally, in a peer to peer style -- users tell their friends about the software and give them copies of it. The costs are distributed amongst the users that way.

--

I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.

"You have fallen for the right-wing spin machine" by Ricin · 2003-09-30 08:52 · Score: 1

Please don't insult my intelligence and reread the word "joke".

+2 don quichotte

STAR TREK PREZ! by JCCyC · 2003-09-30 08:52 · Score: 1

And, you know, Wesley Clark is dangerously similar to Wesley Crusher!

WARP FACTOR TWO!

Re:STAR TREK PREZ! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 12:03 · Score: 0

And their uniforms are similar, at least as depicted in this (hilarious) "montage."
Re:STAR TREK PREZ! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 00:53 · Score: 0

Wingnuts like Rush "I-can't-go-to-Nam-coz-I-have-a-wart-in-my-ass" Limbaugh want to imply Clark's some kind of nutcase who'll raise taxes and spend them in cockamamie time travel projects. What part of "in all of human history" don't they understand?

Oh, I forgot, they know very well what he meant. It's conscious spin.

Re:I am impressed [OT] by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:53 · Score: 0

even better:

http://www.zompist.com/libertos.html

So smart and yet so dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:53 · Score: 0

I know a lot of /. types, smart and pragmatic as they are on the job are still mostly on the young and liberal side when it comes to politics. But this is not how to pick a president. With a few more years under their belts they'll realize that all presidents, regardless of the nonsense they spout during the campaign, once they get their first national security briefing and have the actual responsibility on their shoulders have to give up the radical shit that had all their buddies patting them on the back and have to do the right thing. Linux won't keep some asshole terrorist from nuking your kids. National security first, everything else second.

Re:So smart and yet so dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:13 · Score: 1, Funny

Linux won't keep some asshole terrorist from nuking your kids. National security first, everything else second.

"Your kids" is the giveaway. This is why we shouldn't elect parents. There's some biological defect that makes them forget that a police state isn't worth defending.
Re:So smart and yet so dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 10:15 · Score: 0

Able to hook up with a chick? Is that the biological defect you are referrng to? It's fun to scream about police states and nazis and stuff but at some point you need to grow up, learn a little history and put that childish nonsense behind you.
Re:So smart and yet so dumb by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 06:22 · Score: 0

Able to hook up with a chick?

Er, no, what part of "parents" did you not understand? Neither a relationship nor sex require children.
Here's some history: the reason the United States even exist is that some brave people back then realized that freedom is more important than their families' security. Are we even worthy of their legacy anymore?

Nice Troll - I'll bite by LucidityZero · 2003-09-30 08:54 · Score: 1

Okay, okay, nice Troll, but I'll bite.

Matter of importance, first off, is merely a matter of opinion. What you consider to be most important, is not what someone else considers important.

There are issues that I simply do not have an opinion on. Abortion, for example. I see both sides of the arguement, and just don't feel a strong draw towards the subject. Instead of joining the fray, I figure it's better to let those that feel pasionately fight it out. Same with the environment - let people who truly care about that issue fight about it - they don't need me cause I'd only get in the way no matter which side I was on.

Now, on the topic of supporting free software? I think that's phenominal! I'm most certainly not going to make a decision based ONLY on that fact, but THAT is an issue I care about.

If you expect every person on the planet to have zeleous views on every possible topic, you're just fooling yourself. No one can do that. Instead, pick a few issues that are dear to you and fight for those. In the mean time, I'll fight for my causes, and maybe something will actually get done in this world, instead of everyone stretching themselves so thin that no one can accomplish a thing...

Personally, I like global progress...don't you?

--
Sig.i>

Dean's "Internet Principles" by meatball_mulligan · 2003-09-30 08:55 · Score: 5, Informative

From the Dean website...
Principles for an Internet Policy

This nation - and not just this nation - needs to have an honest conversation about what's real, possible and desirable when it comes to the gift of the Internet. Conversations need shared ground. Here are the beliefs we think should guide the development of a fact-based federal policy. We put these forward as part of a continuing Great American Conversation . . .

No one owns the Internet

The Internet does not exist for the unique benefit of any group or economic interest. It is ours as citizens of this country and as inhabitants of this planet.
Everyone should be connected

The social, economic, and educational advantages of being on the Internet are real. Universal Internet access regardless of economic or geographic position should be a federal goal.
The Internet's value comes from its openness

The Internet provides a new possibility of global access to an unprecedented sum of human knowledge. It is the responsibility of this generation to make sure that knowledge is available for innovation in business and culture.
The Internet's openness should be promoted

The Internet was initially designed as a way of moving bits without preferring some bits to others. Network architects call this principle "end-to-end" networking. That way, anyone with a good idea - or a bad one - can build it and see if it works. This openness is essential to the Internet's value as a marketplace of innovation and a public square for ideas.
The Internet is a democracy of voices, not primarily a broadcast medium

Although the Internet certainly can be used to broadcast messages and programs from one spot to hundreds of millions of others, its most important effect socially and economically is its transformation of the broadcast model. Rather than "freedom of the press belonging to those who own one," everyone now can reach everyone else. The Internet is encouraging people to speak up, in their own voice, about what matters to them. This empowerment of human voice and conversation is profoundly in line with the ideals of American democracy.
The Internet is not perfectible

The Internet is not perfect and it never will be. It is a global network providing possibility of connecting to geniuses and pickpockets and worse. We need to work to root out illegal and malicious uses of the Internet and the exploitation of children and other vulnerable members of our society.
The Internet is just at the beginning

Although the Internet has connected 700,000,000 people worldwide, it is just at its beginning. We need to recognize that no one yet knows the true potential of the Internet. And we need to support the political and technological policies that will help the Internet grow to its true capacity as a force for democracy world-wide.

Re:Dean's "Internet Principles" by dowobeha · 2003-10-01 05:01 · Score: 1

I can't find this on the Dean site. Could you please provide a link? Thanks!

--
I am concerned about any program, any piece of hardware, any treaty, any law that treats me as a consumer, not a citizen
Re:Dean's "Internet Principles" by meatball_mulligan · 2003-10-01 06:32 · Score: 1

Here you go.

Re:Old Joke by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:58 · Score: 0

What makes you think you have to read such rubbish on a public forum? You don't. If you don't want to see it read at 1 or better.

The only thing I hate worse than stupid trolls is stupid whiners.

Re:Dean Win Would Guarantee Bush Victory by rbird76 · 2003-09-30 09:06 · Score: 1

See post 7096601 - it is at least a partial refutation of the "extreme liberalism" of Dean's position. Ultimately, the Republicans will demonize whatever candidate the Democrats come up with as being too far left and a crazy liberal (just as, to some degree, the Democrats would do to the Republicans in reverse).

I'd rather have a candidate who will take positions I agree with and defend them than one who is desperately trying to be not liberal. The Democratic Party can succeed if it defines (and can achieve) positive goals rather than merely negative goals. Having a candidate people care about is better than choosing one that is "electable". The Labour party in Britain spent a lot of time finding this out - being respected or taking stands is much better than trying to be "electable"; if you get elected this way, it could turn out to be meaningless anyway (this is from Christopher Hitchens' essays in "For the Sake of Argument").

In summary, it is probably better for the Democratic Party (and probably politics in general) to have a candidate who is liked by a fair amount of people who is willing to stand and fight for issues, even if they were further left than many might like. Since the Republicans will portray their opponent as far left as possible anyway, it's better to stand and fight than to aquiesce quietly and in the process cede the initiative and the terms of debate to the Republicans. As in baseball, it's better to lose with your best pitches than to throw what you aren't good at and get beaten anyway.

AWOL by simpl3x · 2003-09-30 09:10 · Score: 1

"I still think that Bush is going to really regret doing that stupid Top Gun stunt next November."

Nothin' like dodging your chance at serving your country, goin' AWOL, and havin' daddy bail you out! you've got me why anybody in a uniform would vote for this guy, especially when all he does is cut their benefits. clueless!

Re:AWOL by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:24 · Score: 0

At the time he joined the guard, his unit was deployed to South Vietnam. By the time he completed his flight training, it had been recalled to the states (not much need for interceptors when the North Vietnamese Air Force never flew over South Vietnam. He was never charged with going AWOL - his guard unit records show that he completed the required number of duty days for that year. As for having his daddy supposedly bail him out, you're assuming that a junior member of the Texas legislature has a heck of a lot clout (Bush Sr was a minor politician during this time).
Re:AWOL by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:26 · Score: 0

you mean like Clinton skipping out of the country to not inhale at Oxford instead of serving as promised?
Re:AWOL by bcboy · 2003-09-30 11:01 · Score: 1

... the difference being that Clinton didn't fight because he was morally opposed to the war, and Bush didn't fight because he felt serving his country was beneath him. He's not of that class, you know.

There's hardly a Vietnam veteran in politics today that hasn't been smeared by draft-dodging right-wingers.
Re:AWOL by MADCOWbeserk · 2003-09-30 12:16 · Score: 1

the difference being that Clinton didn't fight because he was morally opposed to the war, and Bush didn't fight because he felt serving his country was beneath him.

Bullshit Bush and Clinton didn't fight because they didn't want to risk thier asses. They didn't want to die.

I am almost as opposed to hearing Clinton and moral in the same sentence, as I would be if he used Bush and moral in the same sentence.

Clark IS a loony by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:20 · Score: 1, Insightful

" trash Clark as a loony with an out of context quote"

Clark will do himself in. Most of his statements are outright lies: he is living in a fantasy world. He is like Howard Dean: an incredibly mean liar who wants to make things worse, but unlike Dean he has no political experience, and he comes across as the latest Perot (or worse yet: Admiral Stockdale, Perot's very similar clueless running mate who also had military experience).

As for Gore, it was Gore who claimed that he himself invented the Internet. He didn't need Rove's help for this and other nutty claims (Love Canal, listening to not-yet-written union songs as a child, and all the rest of Gore's Zeligry).

"thats why the Whitehouse included $100 million for H2 power research in the last budget. "

This is just another $100 spent on corporate welfare. Don't you have a problem with this? This is one of those mistakes the Bush administration should not be making.

Re:Clark IS a loony by bcboy · 2003-09-30 10:26 · Score: 3, Informative

Errr.... hey clueboy, all of the 'Gore lies' were manufactured by the press. His statements on Love Canal, working on a farm, Love Story, and etc. were all true. He was widely misquoted by right-wing liars to give the impression that he was exaggerating.
Re:Clark IS a loony by bcboy · 2003-09-30 11:16 · Score: 2, Informative

So tell me, what has Clark lied about?

I've seen George Will lie about Clark lying. Will cut-n-paste the transcript from the June 15th Meet the Press to construct statements Clark never said. I've seen Rush repeat Will's lie in the WSJ. I haven't seen Clark lie.

The transcript for the Meet the Press episode is available online.

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/927000.asp?cp1=1
Re:Clark IS a loony by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 13:33 · Score: 0

As for Gore, it was Gore who claimed that he himself invented the Internet

Quote, please. Not a second-hand quote from the right-wing spinners, but a direct-from-Gore quote. Thanks.
Re:Clark IS a loony by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 22:23 · Score: 0

As for Gore, it was Gore who claimed that he himself invented the Internet.

Snopes has debunked your lie.

Clark will do himself in. Most of his statements are outright lies: he is living in a fantasy world. He is like Howard Dean: an incredibly mean liar

Pot kettle black.
Re:Clark IS a loony by Zeinfeld · 2003-10-01 01:16 · Score: 1

I've seen George Will lie about Clark lying. Will cut-n-paste the transcript from the June 15th Meet the Press to construct statements Clark never said. I've seen Rush repeat Will's lie in the WSJ. I haven't seen Clark lie.
The GOP must be really scared here. I think their big fear is that they know that Shrub's military career was phony.
Clinton and Bush both dodged the draft. But Clinton did not then ponce arround aircraft carriers wearing a flight suit.

--
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Re:Clark IS a loony by Zeinfeld · 2003-10-01 07:29 · Score: 1

Clark will do himself in. Most of his statements are outright lies: he is living in a fantasy world.
Letsee,
Clark = purple heart, bronze star, silver star, four star General, commander of NATO.
Bush = dodged draft, deserted Texas national guard, dressed up in flight suit to play top gun on an aircraft carrier.
Which one do you think is living in a fantasy world?
As for lies, Bush repeatedly claims to have told people that his campaign pledge to balance the budget was conditional, but there is absolutely no record of him ever making that statement. A campaign pledge is a campaign pledge, even if the claim to have mentioned the conditions to a reporter were true he made no mention of them when he made his campaign pledge. Sounds to me like a playground sneak who says his promise does not count because he had his fingers crossed behind his back.
It is now crystal clear that Bush lied in the state of the union speech when he gave his rationale for invading Iraq.
Bush and Rumsfeld may not have lied when they led the country to believe that the invasion and occupation of Iraq would be a 'cakewalk' but they were certainly proved to have been wrong. And today US troops are dying as a result of the fantasies of Bush and Rumsfeld.

--
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Re:Clark IS a loony by Cyberdyne · 2003-10-03 22:12 · Score: 1

The GOP must be really scared here. I think their big fear is that they know that Shrub's military career was phony.
Never hurt Clinton... and Clark was ultimately fired, by the Clinton administration, after the incident over Pristina airport (where he threatened to have his British counterpart relieved of command for refusing to obey insane orders; the two governments then overruled Clark and supported Gen. Jackson's objection - then removed Clark ahead of schedule.)
Clinton and Bush both dodged the draft. But Clinton did not then ponce arround aircraft carriers wearing a flight suit.
Wrong. Clinton did precisely the same thing (USS Theodore Roosevelt, 1993; again on the USS Independence, 1996) - and just like Bush, he flew in wearing a flight jacket then changed into a suit for the occasion. More here. In short, the complaints about Bush's visit to the Abraham Lincoln are all crap: Clinton did it, LBJ did it, and at least one Democrat Senator has a similar photo of himself; the only distinction is that AFAIK Clinton is the only one who spoke of his "loathing" of the military.

YHBT. YHL. HAND. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:23 · Score: 0

plz die kthnx

comment board for dean's internet principles by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:30 · Score: 0

One of the Deans's net advisory net members has set up a discussion board to talk about Deans's internet principles.

http://www.quicktopic.com/24/D/DMMVTdtdG9Jq.html

USA is 60% Communist by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:42 · Score: 0

COMMUNIST MANIFESTO: [50%] 1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. USA is 42% Federal Lands [100%] 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. USA uses a graduated income tax. [50%] 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. USA uses an extreme inheritance tax. [100%] 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. USA confiscates property and equity of drug dealers, terrorists, etc... [50%] 5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. USA has strong Federal Bank which effectively sets interest rates thoughout the nation. [50%] 6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state. FTC, FCC, FAA control major pieces inter-state communication and transportation. [50%] 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. BLM, Forest Service and others work with industry to extract resources from federal lands. [0%] 8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. The closest the USA has to an obligation to work is the work-for-welfare reforms in recent years. [50%] 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. The USA agricultural is increasingly described as industrial (ironically for Marx, that has the effect of decreasing rural population) [100%] 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. The USA has free public education and strict child labor laws. Result: USA is 60% Communist.

Dean and free software by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:42 · Score: 0

Given Dean's economic outlook, his version of "free software" would involve a hefty tax on it.

Closed Source Republican Supporting Dean by tjstork · 2003-09-30 09:53 · Score: 1

I'm not an open source zealot and in the last election I supported Bush. This election I'm supporting Dean because Republicans can't balance the budget and the USA PATRIOT act is B.S.

--
This is my sig.

Re:Closed Source Republican Supporting Dean by licketyspit · 2003-09-30 10:05 · Score: 1

I have a hard time believing that a democrat in the whitehouse is going to make that much difference when the house and senate are under the control of the republicans now.

Howard dean and the gpl by licketyspit · 2003-09-30 09:57 · Score: 1

How funny is this? Weren't the democrats the ones who sponsored the DMCA? I'm a democrat because it's the lesser of two evils, but the green party has supported the open source software movement for years now. As for Dean well, I've read interviews with all the candidates and well, he's just as bad as the others. I have one rule when I judge candidates, do they really answer the question put to them or do they sidestep it? I've come to the conclusion that I'm not always going to believe in everything a candidate believes in, but I'm more than willing to consider a candidate regardless of their beliefs if they decide to actually tell me. Dennis Kucinich is the only guy out there right now that actually answers the questions asked of him, but I guess that kind of personality is sure to keep you from being elected. As for Dean and his free software, I'm thinking it's mostly a publicity stunt.

Re:Howard dean and the gpl by dowobeha · 2003-10-01 04:57 · Score: 1

I have to disagree. I have personally spoken with Dean twice (in Iowa). Then and during most of the speeches that I have heard, he will give a straight answer to a direct question.
I don't agree with everything he says, but I do know where he stands. Ya, I'd rather have some of Kusinich's policies, but I'd also like someone who won't go psycho on stage (which Kusinich did during the 1st debate).

--
I am concerned about any program, any piece of hardware, any treaty, any law that treats me as a consumer, not a citizen

Winning votes... by DrCode · 2003-09-30 09:59 · Score: 1

Nice gesture. Probably means that Dean will get the votes of a good percentage of the million or so people who spend their Sundays reading Slashdot or writing free software.

On the other hand, Bush will get the votes of a good percentage of the 80 million who spend their Sundays in church.

Re:Dean: Constitutional Rights Are Negotiable by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 10:13 · Score: 0

Dean opposes what some republicans in the current administration do because it's currently what is fashionable in his constituency.

Demoncratic candidates are the WORST partisans of them all, IMHO. They really do (and by they, I am talking about the more left-leaning party leaders, and idiot 'intellectuals'...and a few hollywood morons for good measure) view Bush as the enemy more than Al Queda as best I can tell...when he should be a person they disagree with about policy. Liberals have to try to beat the man down with ad hominem attacks and idiotic speculation more than substance...due to the sad reality, that the guy (while damn far from perfect himself) hasn't done that bad of a job.

Whine all you like, but this little business in Iraq makes the Marshall plan look like a drop in the bucket when you scale the dollars from that day up to todays values. Getting a democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan is going to squeeze Iran like a zit...if the world has the good fucking sense to keep the pressure on for that in the region (by not letting idiots like Hussein, Bin Laden, and Arafat free to wreck hell on the world) the whole thing will cave into a more democratic society and step out of the thirteenth century.

At least Bush has the balls to do it...sometimes you have to break some eggs to make the omlette.

Didn't you get the memo? by roystgnr · 2003-09-30 10:20 · Score: 1

Maybe I've watched too much Babylon 5, but I just can't get read the phrase 'President Clark' without looking around for Nightwatch.

Didn't you get the memo? Someone decided that TIPS was a better name than Nightwatch.

But seriously, you can see the Democratic candidates' positions (in soundbite form) on "homeland security" at CNN. Nothing very concrete from Clark, but Howard Dean is listed as:

Against military tribunals, labeling of "enemy combatants"

Repeal parts of Patriot Act that restrict basic liberties

Democrat == VETO by tjstork · 2003-09-30 10:38 · Score: 1

Country was a lot better off when Clinton / Gingrich had to duke it out. Back then the big argument was prayer in school. Now, it's the FBI everywhere.

--
This is my sig.

My Experience with Open Source in Politics by temojen · 2003-09-30 10:49 · Score: 2, Informative

In 2002 I developed a voter contact management system (phone bank) for a municipal campaign in a medium sized Canadian city (pop 78,000). It was based on Linux/Apache/PHP/PostgreSQL, and was only accessible to volunteers within the campaign office LAN.

Some things I learned from the Experience are:

Many users do not understand the concept of logging out, so use timeouts
Database connections are expensive, and there are a limited amount allowed, so use only one website user (in your DBMS) and persistant connections. Or use one DBMS user for each level of access allowed. Keep user access restrictions in the web application tier.
There are sufficient interested volunteers with Cable or DSL to warrant allowing access from the Internet (with prudent precautions like rate limiting). 4 phone lines is not enough, and many volunteers do not want to come down to the campaign office. All the volunteers tend to want to work in the phone bank at the same time.
(non-competing) Candidates from the opposite end of the (left-right) political spectrum will volunteer for your campaign and stick to the script if you agree on issues key to your community.
The settings on your workstations will be tampered with (innocently or otherwise) if they are useing an operating system that allows this. Donated computers should recieve a new install of an OS thast supports access restrictions (ie Linux or Win2K/XP, if you care to pay the liscense fees). You should tell the person donating the computer that they will recieve it back with a wiped hard-drive.
Someone who opposes you will email a copy of Sub7 installer (or worse) to everyone listed as a contact (candidate, campaign manager, official agent, etc) on your public website. Get server-side email virus scanning, or an ISP who has it (we did).
Some of our opponents were not above vandalizing our signs. There were frequenly areas of the city where all of the signs belonging to any candidate on our side of the spectrum were vandalized.
If you make a web based system, volunteers can be trained to use it very fast even if they've never used a computer before, so long as they're not afraid of computers.
If you make a web based system, once the web browser is open it makes little difference from a usability standpoint whether the workstation is Linux, Windows, or Macintosh (we used all of these). Where it does matter is in preventing tampering or acccidental misconfiguration.
Begin searching for donated hardware early.

I'm hopeing to apply what I've learned and what I've learned since to building a system suitable for the next federal election.It'll probably be a combination of Servlets and domain model objects, PostgreSQL, and PL/pgSQL stored procedures.

Dean doesn't care if it's free or not... by hshana · 2003-09-30 10:59 · Score: 0, Troll

He's just doing it to get some votes. If M$ came along and offered him money, he'd say Windows is great, too. This guy is a politician, first and foremost. Let's not get carried away.

Expats4Dean by rawkphish · 2003-09-30 11:02 · Score: 1

For Dean supporters living overseas, Expats4Dean blog

I'm not American, and yet I love this concept! by Schnake · 2003-09-30 11:16 · Score: 1

Dean and Clark, 2004!
Dean for Pres, Clark for VP.

Or, maybe they should introduce the concept of dual Presidencies??? But I'll leave this for another day...

Re:Dean Win Would Guarantee Bush Victory by Valdrax · 2003-09-30 11:37 · Score: 1

"Left-wing freak Lieberman?" Joe Lieberman's the closest thing the Dems have to a neo-con in the party. Civil libertarians and people who seek peace and international consensus should NOT consider Lieberman a "left wing freak."

He's the Democratic candidate most likely to use rhetoric about "God" and "evil" like Bush, and he supports numerous issues that blur the line between Church and State such as funding faith-based aid programs and "morality legislation" such as the ban of the sale of violent video games to minors. He supported the Patriot Act, he supports "properly constructed" military tribunals, and he supported the act which pratically rubber-stamped anti-Arab racial profiling in the granting of visas. He has also been a long-time supporter of warantless wire-taps and is responsible for the amendment to anti-terrorism language in the wake of OKC that allows for "roving" wiretaps.

He's the candidate most likely to support America's unilateral use of military power. He co-sponsored the bill that authorized the attack on Iraq. He's also a fanatical supporter of Israel, and goes proudly on the record as supporting issues which anger Muslims world-wide. He opposed cutting the flow of free US taxpayer money to Israel over their new Berlin Wall. He adamantly refuses to negotiate with the Palestinians' chosen leadership, which even Bush will deal with despite the overwhelmingly pro-Israel bias in his neo-con think-tank.

He also supports school vouchers as well as strengthened intellectual property and free trade agreements. How, he's pretty fiscally and environmentally liberal, but Lieberman is far to the right of Dean. Hell, Dean's only notable conservative views are the two points you mentioned and a less radical stance stance on socialized medicine. I call myself a hard-core liberal, and I pretty much agree with him on all of those issues as well. (While I'm at it, I don't consider having balanced fiscal sense to be a right/left issue considering Bush's huge increase in discretionary spending over the Clinton era coupled with reckless tax cuts).

I'd love to see Dean get the nomination. It'll give people an actual reason to vote one way or another. If Lieberman gets the nod, it'll be Bush Jr. vs. Bush Lite, and I'll be looking pretty hard at 3rd party candidates.

--
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").

Up next: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 11:38 · Score: 0

Bread. Oh, and some circuses.

Politicians giving people something they think they'll like so they'll vote for them: food, entertainment, money, defense contracts, software. Novel concept. Maybe we could dub it e-pork.

Interesting math... by MADCOWbeserk · 2003-09-30 12:25 · Score: 1

400 Billion (Cost of War and rebuild)/ 22 million (pop of Iraq) = 181 dollars per Iraqi... Hmm

Re:Interesting math... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 13:55 · Score: 0

400 Billion (Cost of War and rebuild)/ 22 million (pop of Iraq) = 181 dollars per Iraqi... Hmm

Don't be so naive! That equation should run something like:

400 Billion (Cost of War and rebuild)/ x (number of Halliburon Execs) = $y per Executive
Re:Interesting math... by MADCOWbeserk · 2003-09-30 14:16 · Score: 1

400 Billion (Cost of War and rebuild)/ x (number of Halliburon Execs) = $y per Executive.......

Roughly 8 billion per executive.
Re:Interesting math... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 18:16 · Score: 0

Roughly 8 billion per executive.

Yeah it's a dirty job ... but someone gotta do it!

President using a helicopter by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 12:36 · Score: 0

"Which is why any other President would have used a helicopter. "

You mean like the President that used a big honking jet to tie up a commercial airport (and mess up flights over much of the country) just to get a HAIRCUT ?!?!?

"The founders were even more keen on the idea of separating the military and politics "

Good. Let's keep Clark and Kerry out of office then. They sure hide behind their uniforms and medals whether or not they have them on at the time.

(Go Go McCain! A war hero who is not santimonious and inconsistent about it)

What is so wrong about that? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 12:39 · Score: 0

"If we get out before that it will be because we have allowed the Kurds to effectively declare autonomy in the north, tolerate a pro-Iranian shia Mulahtocracy in the south and heaven help us in the middle."

Aside from making sure to keep Islam out of the government in the south.... what is so wrong about that?

Iraq itself is an artificial entity forced together by distant colonial powers. Even Kuwait is an older country than Iraq. The Kurds for example were really starting to prosper once they were virtually free of Iraq.

What good reason is there to keep it together? Just like there is no good reason to insist that Kosovo remain a colonial territory of Serbia.

Re:What is so wrong about that? by Capsaicin · 2003-09-30 13:50 · Score: 1

Aside from making sure to keep Islam out of the government in the south....

That's a BIG aside!

Iraq itself is an artificial entity forced together by distant colonial powers

It is, but then again their are no natural political entities. 19/20th Century European history shows the folly (at the cost of great human suffering) of attempting to define the Nation in terms of language, religion or ethnicity. Still I agree there is no overwhelming need to maintain Iraq as an entity

What good reason is there to keep it together? Just like there is no good reason to insist that Kosovo remain a colonial territory of Serbia.

The Serbs are going to disagree with your view of Kosovo as a colony, since they regard it as their heartland, lost to the Turks in the 14thCentury.

In any case a separate Kurdisthan is going to be opposed by Turkey (which still controls the majority of Kurdish lands) and it will lead to (even more) instability in Iran and Syria. This added to the real possibility that a Southern Iraqi (Shia) state would go 'Iranian,' are probably the policy reasons underlying the decision to maintain the integrity of the Iraqi state.

--
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke

Perhaps you should be listening more carefully... by werdna · 2003-09-30 13:06 · Score: 1

Novel should mean novel, do something on the Internet that has been done for 20 years is not novel.

There is not a patent lawyer in the world who would disagree with you. Nor does the PTO or the Congress. If someone claims something that has been "done for 20 years," on the internet or otherwise, it is unpatentable. Of course, if it hadn't been done as claimed, it wouldn't be prior art.

Prior review get rid of the secrecy in the process, all applications to be subject to a one year protest period, same as the Europeans do

No gripe here, and many patent lawyers would agree as well. Indeed, the US has moved quite a bit closer to that already -- we are now publishing many (not all) applications 18 months after application, and of course, you can provoke an interference as soon as you have such specification and claims. The process isn't as good as European opposition practice, but hey, we're doing what we can.

The constituency with whom you have a gripe here is not large corporations, but rather those who claim to represent supposedly small independent inventors -- this lobby group fiercely opposed international harmonization, fought the publication right, insisted on the "US-only" publication exception and limited the scope of remedies of an inventor.

Still, there has been quite a bit of progress on this front, and many patent lawyers would tend to agree with you -- as did AIPLA and the ABA IP committees.

You have to invent it there are a ridiculous number of speculative patents filled where the inventor has actually invented nothing. Typical cases are in the genetics field where the first person to sequience a gene often files a patent that claims the use of the gene to solve every imaginable ailment before the 'inventor' knows anything about what the gene does

This is a tricky place, and once again, many patent lawyers and practitioners tend to agree. The law has developed well in this arena as well, with significant limitations on speculative applications whose claims are unsupported by a written description, or whose claims are not enabled by the specification. In practice, this is not as bad as it used to be, and is also improving.

I don't know if there is any presidential candidate who has ever taken the lead on intellectual property issues, at least not in this century -- can anybody think of an example?

Re:Perhaps you should be listening more carefully. by Zeinfeld · 2003-09-30 13:19 · Score: 1

The constituency with whom you have a gripe here is not large corporations, but rather those who claim to represent supposedly small independent inventors -- this lobby group fiercely opposed international harmonization, fought the publication right, insisted on the "US-only" publication exception and limited the scope of remedies of an inventor.

Absolutely, open source has little or nothing to fear from big corporations. Microsoft and IBM both have massive patent portfolios that could be used to sink open source in a second if they chose. But most of those patents are only ever intended for defensive use. In most cases they are only filled for the sole purpose of preventing someone else filling.

I don't know if there is any presidential candidate who has ever taken the lead on intellectual property issues, at least not in this century -- can anybody think of an example?

Jefferson and Ben Franklin were both keen, but they were also genuine inventors and in those days you had to be able to carry the invention in the door to get a patent.

The Dean campaign is listening very hard to the open source community. I believe that the patent issue is the one that matters most to them.

--
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/

Re:Perhaps you should be listening more carefully. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 13:28 · Score: 0

There is not a patent lawyer in the world who would disagree with you.

[...]

...many patent lawyers would agree as well.

[...]

...many patent lawyers would tend to agree with you...

[...]

...once again, many patent lawyers and practitioners tend to agree.

Well, obviously they do NOT agree, as we keep seeing stupid patents being applied for, granted, and defended.

Re:Perhaps you should be listening more carefully. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 13:59 · Score: 0

Well, obviously they do NOT agree, as ...

You are assuming that any Lawyer 'agrees' with his or her instructions, when in fact it forms the basis of legal ethics that a lawyer has to put to one side their own beliefs and act as instructed. ie. Patents being applied for, granted or defended, say nothing at all about what the lawyers applying or defending agree with or not.

Re:Dean Win Would Guarantee Bush Victory by ces · 2003-09-30 14:03 · Score: 1

At the rate things are going Bush may not be in office long enough to enjoy a second term.

If he is impeached or forced to resign the Democrats could win even if Sharpton was the nominee.

Remember the problem with Watergate wasn't the 3rd rate burglery but the coverup.

In this case we have disclosure of classified information that revealed sources and methods to the enemey during a time of war (treason). And we have the White House apparently sitting on the info for at least 2 months and stonewalling which leads to conspriacy and obstruction of justice charges.

I'm going to love watching Karl Rove getting frogmarched out of the White House in handcuffs.

--
Happy Fun Ball is for external use only.

Re:Dean Win Would Guarantee Bush Victory by ces · 2003-09-30 14:06 · Score: 1

"Left-wing freak Lieberman?" Joe Lieberman's the closest thing the Dems have to a neo-con in the party. Civil libertarians and people who seek peace and international consensus should NOT consider Lieberman a "left wing freak."

I think you misparsed that. The parent post was saying "Dean isn't the left-wing freak Lieberman is claiming he is"

--
Happy Fun Ball is for external use only.

Not that pro gun by Billly+Gates · 2003-09-30 14:21 · Score: 1

More info is available here.

Most likely you may have been influenced by fud.

--
http://saveie6.com/

Re:Dean Win Would Guarantee Bush Victory by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 14:22 · Score: 0

The dems have twelve losers lined up and a constituency having masturbation fantasies like this
one. I'd said Bush has little to worry about.

Re:Bush campaign releases GNU/WMD to garner suppor by Malcontent · 2003-09-30 14:52 · Score: 1

I don't think Bush would kill US citizens to win elections. He would start a war with iran or sryia if he thought he was going to lose the election though.

--

War is necrophilia.

I Wonder... by glenstar · 2003-09-30 15:16 · Score: 1

God knows that somewhere in the wasteland of 400+ posts someone has said this, but...

I wonder if RMS thought he'd see a US presidential candidate releasing stuff under the GPL when he founded GNU 20 years ago!

I wonder if RMS thought he would still be working on the Hurd 20 years from then. And I really wonder if he knows it will be another 20 years before it is stable.

Re:Clark has a huge integrity problem by berenddeboer · 2003-09-30 15:28 · Score: 1

Clark and Dean the ideal pair? I hope not!

Here a remarkable quote from Retired General H. Hugh Shelton, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on 9/11:

"What do you think of General Wesley Clark and would you support him as a presidential candidate," was the question put to him by moderator Dick Henning, assuming that all military men stood in support of each other. General Shelton took a drink of water and Henning said, "I noticed you took a drink on that one!"
"That question makes me wish it were vodka," said Shelton. "I've known Wes for a long time. I will tell you the reason he came out of Europe early had to do with integrity and character issues, things that are very near and dear to my heart. I'm not going to say whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat. I'll just say Wes won't get my vote."

--
If I had a sig, I would put it here.

out of the herd by BCW2 · 2003-09-30 16:45 · Score: 1

My God, is that an intelligent candidate emerging from the thundering herd of dumbass? A democrat with common sense, damn, what'll they think of next. I never thought I'd see the day.

10% liberal, 10% conservative, who represents those of us in the majority. Find as many moderates as possible and elect them to any office to buck the trend.

--
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.

Can somebody explain to me why MS runs Linux? by sageres · 2003-09-30 17:22 · Score: 1

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.micro soft.com

Re:Can somebody explain to me why MS runs Linux? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 18:36 · Score: 0

Its because their traffic is going through Akamai and Level 3 who both use Linux.

OS, Web Server and Hosting History for www.microsoft.com
OS Server Last changed IP address Netblock Owner
Linux Microsoft-IIS/6.0 30-Sep-2003 80.15.249.112 Akamai
Linux Microsoft-IIS/6.0 26-Sep-2003 80.15.249.136 Akamai
Linux Microsoft-IIS/6.0 26-Sep-2003 213.161.82.43 Akamai
Linux Microsoft-IIS/6.0 25-Sep-2003 81.52.249.95 Akamai Technologies - US machines connected to FT AS5511
Linux Microsoft-IIS/6.0 24-Sep-2003 80.15.249.110 Akamai
Linux Microsoft-IIS/6.0 15-Sep-2003 63.211.66.108 Level 3 Communications, Inc.
Linux Microsoft-IIS/6.0 12-Sep-2003 63.211.178.101 Level 3 Communications, Inc.
Linux Microsoft-IIS/6.0 12-Sep-2003 63.211.66.131 Level 3 Communications, Inc.
Linux Microsoft-IIS/6.0 11-Sep-2003 81.52.249.97 Akamai Technologies - US machines connected to FT AS5511
Linux Microsoft-IIS/6.0 9-Sep-2003 63.211.66.116 Level 3 Communications, Inc
Re:Can somebody explain to me why MS runs Linux? by rifter · 2003-10-01 04:08 · Score: 1

Its because their traffic is going through Akamai and Level 3 who both use Linux.

Which ws their response to the recent worm problems. Frankly, I thik all MS customers hsould take note of this. MS clearly does not feel their servers belong on the internet because of the threat of worms. They recommend using Linux for all internet-facing servers. There you go! :)

Re:Bush campaign releases GNU/WMD to garner suppor by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 17:36 · Score: 0

I'd say that view more represents shallow thinkers like yourself than Democrats. Thanks for playing, though.

RMS by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 18:05 · Score: 0

I wonder if RMS thought he'd see a U.S. presidential candidate releasing stuff under the GPL when he founded GNU 20 years ago!"

Oh, man, what a puss. "What is the great RMS thinking now! Oh wow, I wonder if he'd think my butt is cute?

Of COURSE RMS thought he'd see that... that guy sees Capt. Kirk and Mr. Spock using his stuff. Someone needs to tap him on the shoulder, though, and point out that the people in Star Trek appear to bathe regularly and know what a razor is.

I tried using Emacs once, but (call it my OCD tendencies) I could not stop thinking about filthy hippies when using it, and went back to VIM, where I could at least think about more pleasant things, like starving Ugandans.

Re:Clark has a huge integrity problem by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 18:12 · Score: 0

So? Generals hate each other more than they like each other. Don't you remember what happened to Patton and McArthur? Both great Americans and commanders that were ostrasized and kept down by other generals with more power who feared that they'd lose that power to them. Since Clark was the NATO commander the next stop up the command ladder is usually a spot on the joint chiefs and shelton kept clark from going up that rung and now he fears that if Clark becomes VP or pres he'll get shut out of the juicey national securty consultant jobs that most high ranking generals pick up after retiring. All that quote from Shelton is, is an attempt to keep an old grudge he had in the service from coming back and biting him in the ass.

Re:Dean (sorta) Gets It by sacrilicious · 2003-09-30 18:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

I definitely think Dean's use of the internet is more deft than that of previous candidates, but he has a ways to go.

Hi blog page is a hyper exclamation mark festival which has compared him to a "rock star" of politics. I don't want to vote for a rock star, as that image does not connote accountability (or even talent, given todays RIAA-manufactured boy bands).

To participate in his meetups, you have to click through an agreement that binds you into arbitration and robs you of your right to a jury trial in the event of a related dispute. To me, this makes Dean sound more like a giant corporation out to squish hapless citizens than a man who is trying to elevate dialog.

I have written more than one email to the address listed as the official input for the campaign. Brief, easily digested, thoughtful messages that invite responses. I've heard nothing back. I don't take it personally, but it certainly raises the question: is Dean fundamentally using the internet as anything more than a broadcast medium? I am only one person so I can't state the aggregate, but it's all I have to base a judgement on regarding what Dean is doing with the net. I grant him major points for so clearly being aware of the internet; now I'd like some indication that he can use it as a two way medium and not just as a louder bullhorn.

--
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.

Re:Bush campaign releases GNU/WMD to garner suppor by Malcontent · 2003-09-30 18:57 · Score: 1

We don't have to hope for anything. It's already going south and will go even further as time goes by.

--

War is necrophilia.

Re:Perhaps you should be listening more carefully. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 20:08 · Score: 0

I am too tired to create an account, but I post on the Dean blog as 2501 if you want to track down my email address. Not exactly an answer, but related--I don't know if it was already linked, but the Dean campaign yesterday did issue a statement of principles about the future of the internet: http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?page name=InternetPrinciples

More free election software by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 02:38 · Score: 0

here you go: Voter registration software in postgresql and How to: Steal an election and practice vote fraud

Imagine... by Jerk+City+Troll · 2003-10-01 05:04 · Score: 1

If every last /. user with US citizenship voted for Dean...

--
Join Tor today!

Dean will do a Slashdot interview! by dowobeha · 2003-10-01 05:05 · Score: 0, Redundant

**********PLEASE READ THIS POST****************

I spoke with Joe Trippi, the campaign manager, and he said that Dean would do a /. interview if I could arrange it.

Rob, or whoever else is out there... might this be possible? I submitted an interview request on the story submission page and it got rejected.

Maybe someday....

--
I am concerned about any program, any piece of hardware, any treaty, any law that treats me as a consumer, not a citizen

Re:Dean Win Would Guarantee Bush Victory by Valdrax · 2003-10-01 06:24 · Score: 1

Yes. Yes, I did parse the completely incorrectly, and I let myself get far too worked up about it. *sigh*

--
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").

Clark and genocide by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 08:24 · Score: 0

What of the information about Clark paling around with wanted Serb war criminals? His pro-war-criminal record is furthered by his stated preference to to keep Saddam in power in Iraq.

One part of the outcome of the Kosovo war is one that Clark's pals surely approve of: Kosovo is still forcibly annexed to Serbia (when in reality it belongs apart as Bosnia and Croatia, other non-Serb territories are.)

Someone get Clark a DeLorean by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 15:51 · Score: 0

"Bush = dodged draft, deserted Texas national guard"

He didn't dodge: he served stateside, as have many. He didn't desert, either. The AWOL thing is an urban legend traced to some rumor from someone's girlfriend. Desertion/AWOL is an actual criminal charge: Bush was never charged with it (no evidence or cause) nor was he convicted, of course. The AWOL story is something that is 100% fiction, and carried forward by the tiniest far-left fringe of the media just because it looks outrageous. Even left-wing (but not THAT left-wing) CNN will not touch it: the Bush AWOL story has as much truth as the right-wing kooks saying that Clinton executed dozens of people covertly in Arkansas (the Arkancide story).

"dressed up in flight suit to play top gun on an aircraft carrier."

Since that is what he did stateside, he has a right. If you are not a complete hypocrite on this, I expect you to go down to the local VFW hall and berate any of the men you find there who still wear uniforms for positions they have not served in years.

"As for lies, Bush repeatedly claims to have told people that his campaign pledge to balance the budget was conditional"

Give him the line item veto, and pass the balanced budget amendment. This will take care of the problem of waste spending which is entirely the cause of the budget problems.

Sure, he broke his promise. They all do it. Reminds of when Clinton cold-heartedly broke his promise to help the Haitian immigrants. (but that was even after Clinton broke his promise of an ethical administration by nomination felons like Zoe Baird to his cabinet).

"It is now crystal clear that Bush lied in the state of the union speech when he gave his rationale for invading Iraq"

There was not one lie in the state of the union speech.

"Bush and Rumsfeld may not have lied when they led the country to believe that the invasion and occupation of Iraq would be a 'cakewalk'"

Of course, thank you Tom Daschle. The Democrats have been undercutting the administration at every turn in the efforts of increasing the deaths of US soldiers and causing a debacle just to make Bush look bad next November. 9 of those 10 running on the Democrat side are sickos who smile every time a US soldier is killed over in Iraq. Only Joe Leiberman dares to put country in front of campaign. Howard "Mujaha" Dean, who is unabashedly in favor of Saddam Hussein, could not be happier the worse it gets over there. Read Stephen King's "The Dead Zone" to find out about Stillson, the hate-filled hothead that Dean seems to be basing his campaign on.

Unless Lieberman gets the nomination, Bush will be elected a second time. The public has little stomach for these ghouls who want chaos in Iraq just to boost their poll ratings a few points.

Even then, the Democrats have little chance. The fact remains that Lieberman is Jewish. There is a strong anti-semitic contingent in the Democratic Party (the party of Jesse Jackson and McKinnon; the party where too many question the rights of Israelis to exist; the party where too many bash Ariel Sharon just because he fights back). The Republicans don't have an anti-semitism problem since Pat Buchanan was ejected.

Re:Someone get Clark a DeLorean by Zeinfeld · 2003-10-02 00:19 · Score: 1

He didn't dodge: he served stateside, as have many. He didn't desert, either. The AWOL thing is an urban legend traced to some rumor from someone's girlfriend. Desertion/AWOL is an actual criminal charge: Bush was never charged with it
Bush was never charged with his insider trading at Harken, daddy appointed the investigator. The AWOL charge has been established as fact many times, his commanding officer confirms that he never saw him turn up for duty. If there was no evidence then 300 newspapers would not have published this week's Doonsbury strip which makes the same charge.
Of course, thank you Tom Daschle. The Democrats have been undercutting the administration at every turn in the efforts of increasing the deaths of US soldiers
You really are an arrogant little shit. Perhaps Tom Daschle would be the two people in the administraqtion who leaked the name of a CIA operative to Bob Novak and 6 other journalists out of spite. Yeah, that fits, Bob Novak's eyesight must have been faulty.
Even then, the Democrats have little chance. The fact remains that Lieberman is Jewish. There is a strong anti-semitic contingent in the Democratic Party
Yeah, that would be why Lieberman would be trailing Dean, Dean only has a Jewish wife and children so he takes a smaller hit on the anti-semitism front.
Lieberman has zero chance of being nominated because he is a Republican, to be precise he is Bob Dole.

--
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Re:Someone get Clark a DeLorean by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-02 01:36 · Score: 0

"Yeah, that would be why Lieberman would be trailing Dean, Dean only has a Jewish wife and children so he takes a smaller hit on the anti-semitism front."

No, he gets favor by antisemites due to his recent "code-worded" anti-semitic statements about Israel and Middle Eastern terrorism. His strong support for Saddam "is he really a bad guy?" adds to it.

"If there was no evidence then 300 newspapers would not have published this week's Doonsbury strip which makes the same charge."

Doonesbury is satire, and as such they can get away with a lot.

"Bush was never charged with his insider trading at Harken, daddy appointed the investigator."

So, never charged still means guilty? Does this work across the board, or only for Republicans (if the Democratic president appoints the Attorney General who blocks investigation, why of course there is no crime...Bush is this "guilty" of crimes he was never charged with, such as insider trading, and Clinton is innocent of crimes he is never charged with). It's pretty clear that your determining factor is "what party is the guy in?"

"The AWOL charge has been established as fact many times"

It was? Do you know the date this charge was filed in court?

"Lieberman has zero chance of being nominated because he is a Republican, to be precise he is Bob Dole."

No, he is a liberal Democrat. He's just more to the center (= more electable in the end) than the other ones. He's Bob Dole? No. Dole is Humphrey Bogart, and Lieberman is Teller of "Penn and Teller" fame :)
Re:Someone get Clark a DeLorean by Zeinfeld · 2003-10-02 10:09 · Score: 1

No, he gets favor by antisemites due to his recent "code-worded" anti-semitic statements about Israel and Middle Eastern terrorism.
You know Rush, you are really insufferable on the days you can't get your oxy-contin fix.
If criticizing the Sharon government was anti-semitic then most of the jews living in Israel are anti-semitic.
The problem with you Rush is that you are a bigott and an idiot. You just spew out this stream of hatred and you can't stop it no matter how stupid it makes you look.
Have luck finding a new job now ESPN fired you. You might want to start looking before the sponsors of your radio show decide they don't want their program associated with a drug adict.

--
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/

More dope than human being should be allowed.... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-02 13:12 · Score: 0

Nah, I've already flushed Rush. I hope many conservatives do too, just to show that when those on the right commit crimes, the conservatives dump them (Nixon, and hopefully Rush), while when those on the left commit crimes (Clinton), the liberals circle the wagons and defend the crooks.

A dope fiend Rush is, but a bigot he is not. His statements about the expectations of racists concerning people in the NFL was dead-on.

"If criticizing the Sharon government was anti-semitic then most of the jews living in Israel are anti-semitic. "

Criticizing is one thing. The claims of "War Criminal" trumped up by the neo-nazis are another. Sure, I criticize Sharon, but I criticize him for having an ugly plasticy haircut.

Re:More dope than human being should be allowed... by Zeinfeld · 2003-10-02 14:27 · Score: 1

Criticizing is one thing. The claims of "War Criminal" trumped up by the neo-nazis are another. Sure, I criticize Sharon, but I criticize him for having an ugly plasticy haircut.

Actually it was an Israeli judicial investigation that determined Sharon was responsible for the war crimes committed in Shabra and Chatila.

Glad to hear that you believe that right wingers that break the law should be prosecuted. I hope you will join me in calling for Schwatzenegger to be prosecuted for his admitted acts of sexual harassment.

--
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/

EIP = excellence in pills by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-02 22:40 · Score: 0

"Glad to hear that you believe that right wingers that break the law should be prosecuted. I hope you will join me in calling for Schwatzenegger to be prosecuted for his admitted acts of sexual harassment."

Actually, he's no right-winger. He's a liberal Republican. Yes, let's carry the legal process out on this one. How far will it go (turns out that the most recent claim was fake).

It is ironic to the extreme that "moveon.org" has taken up the Schwarzenegger sexual harassment cause, especially when it was formed entirely on the very idea that sexual harassment does not matter at all.

Ah, who to vote for? The guy who said he admired Hitler long ago, but does not now, or the guy who has never repudiated his membership in a sort of Latino Nazi group that calls for a homeland for the "master race" in southwest US, complete with ethnic cleansing. Wish I lived there and could vote for Gary Coleman!

example: gravity by Thomas+A.+Anderson · 2003-10-08 17:27 · Score: 1

Isn't gravity an example of something that travels FTL? As in, information about the location and mass of an object seems to be transmitted to other objects instantly. Or has the "speed of gravity" actually been measured as non-instantaneous (sp?).

--
Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I cant stand (bash.org)

554 comments