"If people are prepared to use an inferior browser simply because they don't like the behaviour of some users of a superior browser then that's fine with me"
There are superior alternatives to Firefox, in my opinion. Opera is far superior: Smaller, faster, more secure, smoothly integrated functionality without having to download third-party extensions.
Re:all-nine-users-cheer dept ??
on
Opera 8 Released
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· Score: 1
"Interesting. I added that last comment (the one in italics above) as a criticism of FireFox to see if a rabid Opera cheerleader would be so caught up in defending Opera that she or he would not realize that the comment was critical of FireFox. Looks like I caught the fish I was angling for.;-)"
Actually, I was proving the point that your comments about "bugs in Opera" were nothing but blowing off steam with no real basis in reality. Sure Opera has bugs, but all software does. Opera isn't getting more buggy - quite the opposite, in fact. And the fact that security holes are plugged quickly and efficiently prove that your comments about "more buggy" are nonsense.
"Err actually firefox devotes more screen space to viewing web pages then any other browser. Opera clutters it up with ads and a whole bunch of functionality and buttons that I'll never use or need in a web browser. Opera loads faster, but I do believe firefox is more responsive once it loads. The best thing about firefox is its simplicity, I'm looking at 5 buttons right now (Back, Foward, Reload, Stop, Home) and that's all I should ever have to look at."
You are claiming that Opera "clutters it up with ads and a whole bunch of functionality", but the fact is that the default UI with Google ads shows seven buttons, all of which are very useful. Opera also has a faster UI since it doesn't use XUL, so it's far more responsive. And when going back and forward Opera does so right away, while Firefox reloads the page.
Actually, with IMAP you can combine IMAP folders and Opera's indexing engine.
Re:Not being trollish, but...
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Opera 8 Released
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· Score: 2, Interesting
"If you actually believe that the shitty little startup who makes Opera had ANY significant influence on Google or Firefox, you're probably a crackhead."
Opera, a startup? The company (and program) has been around for ten years! That's hardly a "startup".
And did Opera influence Gmail? It certainly handled mail in the same way long before Gmail did.
Did Opera influence Firefox? It's right in your face when you start it: That Google search field? Opera was the first browser with such a search field. Oh, and popup blocking? Opera was the first browser with a popup blocker too (it used to be an option called "allow pages to open new windows" or something similar to that).
Opera has indeed had a significant influence on the market. Many features we today take for granted in other browsers were invented by Opera.
And it continues! Opera's SSR solved the problem with normal web sites on small screens. And now Minimo is trying to do the same. But Opera came up with it, and did it first. In fact, most of the things Minimo was bragging about in a recent ZDNET story were invented by Opera specifically for mobile phones.
In this particular discussion, your person is relevant, as you are proving to be very biased against Opera, and putting forward useless anecdotal evidence to try and find a way to bash Opera.
Also, I must point out that even if I clash with you in one discussion, that doesn't mean that I will automatically label you a foe for all eternity and start bashing you elsewhere as well (unless you deserve it). I try to focus on people's message, not ncessarily on the person behind it, unless it is relevant - such as when one is a Firefox fan and mindlessly bashes Opera.
No, Danuvius, I am simply making the observation that Firefox fans are getting a bad reputation due to bad apples that attack anyone who dares to stray from the Firefox religion.
"I use Firefox - does that make me a fan? Am I getting a bad reputation? Should I care? Your post raises many questions!"
You may or may not be a fan. If you are one of those people who keep "spreading the word" about Firefox, you are probably a fan, but not necessarily in a bad way. I said that Firefox fans are getting a bad reputations, not that everyone is an asshole.
Should you care? I don't know, and I don't really care. All I know is that some rabid Firefox fanboys are making everyone else look bad. Ultimately, that could reflect badly on you as a person.
"True. Though marketing is where proprietary software should have the advantage normally."
Right. But Opera is hardly a "normal" company it seems. They didn't try to cash in during the dot.com bubble, and the primary drive has always been technology, rather than marketing.
"You yourself state that Opera has to sell a product and make money to survive. Perhaps Firefox being less impacted by such considerations is a contributing reason for its success? Is that really such an outlandish proposition?"
No, certainly not. It is a huge advantage that Mozilla receives funding, while Opera has to focus on sales and the bottom line to survive.
Re:Would be nice to get XSLT support
on
Opera 8 Released
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· Score: 1
That document has got nothing to do with XSLT. Opera is not opposed to XSLT, it just doesn't necessarily make sense, seeing as it requires client-side processing power, and Opera's biggest market is on mobile phones. Use XSLT and you've suddenly blocked mobile phones from accessing your site, as phones may not be able to handle the load.
Re:Ummm... no it doesn't.
on
Opera 8 Released
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· Score: 0, Flamebait
The hostility! No wonder Firefox fans are getting a bad reputation:-(
Re:Ummm... no it doesn't.
on
Opera 8 Released
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· Score: 0, Flamebait
"No it doesn't. Not on three different computers using three different operating systems: Windows 98, Windows XP Pro, Gentoo Linux Maybe you need to get your computer fixed?"
So, let's see... When Opera crashes it's Opera's fault, but when Firefox crashes it's the computer's fault? Hehe... Firefox fans... Gotta love'em:-D
Re:Opera and Firefox
on
Opera 8 Released
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· Score: 2, Insightful
"What that suggests to me is that the Browser market was in fact quite open to a better solution, and Opera despite years of trying failed to fully take advantage of the opportunity."
Or Opera simply didn't have the perfect timing of being released as 1.0 exactly when everyone was warning everyone else, and telling them not to use IE. When that happened, Opera was at 7.54 or so - hardly a very interesting new browser.
Your posts says nothing useful about open vs. closed. All it does is to draw conclusions from dubious arguments. As you can see, Mozilla struggled for years before they stripped down the browser and the MSIE warnings started to appear everywhere. Rather than a simple factor, this whole thing is a matter of combinations of factors.
Also, Opera actually has to sell a product to survive. It has to make money. Firefox was primarily created to grow quickly, and since Mozilla gets dontations from huge corporations like Nokia, IBM, Sun, and so on, they don't have to worry about sales. They get the money anyway.
Opera needs to focus on the bottom line, and maybe, just maybe, it's more important for Opera to have enough money to keep up development, rather than throwing it all out just to grow and make nothing.
Re:all-nine-users-cheer dept ??
on
Opera 8 Released
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· Score: 5, Informative
"I am becoming disenchanted with the direction that Opera Software is taking. Opera is becoming more bloated and more buggy with each release."
Huh? Opera 8 has had the longest period of testing ever. And even with all the built-in features it's still smaller and faster than Firefox.
Opera 8 is even faster than previous versions as well. I have no idea how you can be talking about "bloat" and "more buggy", when clearly, they are fixing stuff like mad, and with three betas and countless previews in addition to that, Opera 8.0 is an extremely solid release.
"Instead of fixing bugs, new features are being added, new features that themselves contain additional bugs."
Instead of fixing bugs? What are you talking about? Loads of bugs have been fixed during the beta tests. It is nothing but a blatant lie to claim that Opera has been fixing bugs instead of adding new features.
But so what if they add new features? It's a good thing! Opera is expanding. They can afford to hire more devs, both to add new features, and to fix bugs.
"Why do I need yet another mail reader in my browser?"
Opera has always had a built-in e-mail client, so the point is moot.
"On the other hand, I can get FireFox to have similar functionality to Opera only by loading a bunch of plug-ins."
Except Firefox has lots of bugs of its own. Just recently, 1.0.3 was released with critical security fixes, whereas Opera is the only browser of the "big three" with no unpatched vulnerabilities.
Re:But does it pass the ACID2 Test?
on
Opera 8 Released
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· Score: 1
You are missing the point. Acid2 was designed specifically to not work in today's browsers. It's deliberatly a hard nut to crack. It isn't called "Acid2" for nothing.
Whether Opera 8.0 renders it correctly or not is besides the point. The point is that this gives browser makers something to work towards.
"Illegal copies of Half-Life 2 are very hard to keep updating"
Uh, why would you "keep updating" pirated versions of HL2?
"and are making people actually buy it for once, just look around at all those forums and listen to the people say "alright i give up, i'll just buy the game"."
This is a load of crap. Right now you can download a DVD ISO of HL2, install it, apply the crack, and play happily ever after. You won't even have to activate it online. Unlike those who actually buy it and return home only to find that their internet connection is down, and they had been looking forward to playing...
"Why can't people face up to the fact that they hate Steam because it makes software piracy much harder?"
Steam makes piracy harder? Wow. Why was there a pirated release out the same day as the official HL2 release, or the next? Harder, yeah right.
People hate Steam because it gathers data about you, forces you to jump through hoops just to play offline, and so on. You will never stop piracy, so the only thing Steam has done is to piss off legitimate customers.
"Steam wasn't implemented to make patches easier, reduce the cost of distribution or whatever. Steam was created because at one point in the illustrious career of HL, there were more illegal copies of HL running than actual purchased copies."
And what did they achieve? Nothing. Except pissing off customers, while the pirates were playing away.
"Valve doesn't care if you aren't going to buy HL2 because of Steam. They don't care because you probably didn't buy HL either and you aren't an actual consumer."
"I can understand why people hate Steam. But I have rarely had any problems at all with it, and furthermore, I am delighted to be able to give the entire price I paid for HL2 to Valve, and not a penny of it to a publisher."
Actually, Valve's behavior is exactly why I don't want to support them with my money. First of all, the fact that you have to activate HL2 online to play it offline is stupid. It does not prevent piracy at all, proven by the fact that a pirated version was out the day HL2 was released. While the pirates can play it happily offline without worrying about activation and such, legitimate customers are forced to put up with this Steam crap.
Valve's decision to inconvenience their customers in this manner feels like an insult. Why should I have to jump through hoops to play a game I paid for, while the pirates are having none of these problems?
No, I really don't want to support Valve if they are going to spend my money on making life hard for their customers...
Those were difficult times. Italy was an ally of Nazi Germany. The Vatican could have done more. There were some things that weren't right. John Paul II (RIP) actually apologized to all Jews for the ill deeds done against them in the past by the Vatican.
Slashdot Mirror
My apologies, it was an AC coughing up some useless anecdotal "evidence" about Opera's stability.
Actually, with IMAP you can combine IMAP folders and Opera's indexing engine.
And did Opera influence Gmail? It certainly handled mail in the same way long before Gmail did.
Did Opera influence Firefox? It's right in your face when you start it: That Google search field? Opera was the first browser with such a search field. Oh, and popup blocking? Opera was the first browser with a popup blocker too (it used to be an option called "allow pages to open new windows" or something similar to that).
Opera has indeed had a significant influence on the market. Many features we today take for granted in other browsers were invented by Opera.
And it continues! Opera's SSR solved the problem with normal web sites on small screens. And now Minimo is trying to do the same. But Opera came up with it, and did it first. In fact, most of the things Minimo was bragging about in a recent ZDNET story were invented by Opera specifically for mobile phones.
In this particular discussion, your person is relevant, as you are proving to be very biased against Opera, and putting forward useless anecdotal evidence to try and find a way to bash Opera.
Also, I must point out that even if I clash with you in one discussion, that doesn't mean that I will automatically label you a foe for all eternity and start bashing you elsewhere as well (unless you deserve it). I try to focus on people's message, not ncessarily on the person behind it, unless it is relevant - such as when one is a Firefox fan and mindlessly bashes Opera.
I will simply point out that I'm not the one calling people names because they expose your arguments and useless anecdotal evidence.
No, Danuvius, I am simply making the observation that Firefox fans are getting a bad reputation due to bad apples that attack anyone who dares to stray from the Firefox religion.
I can see that your crusade to make Firefox fans look bad is proving to be successful. Keep up the good work, alienating people :-)
You may or may not be a fan. If you are one of those people who keep "spreading the word" about Firefox, you are probably a fan, but not necessarily in a bad way. I said that Firefox fans are getting a bad reputations, not that everyone is an asshole.
Should you care? I don't know, and I don't really care. All I know is that some rabid Firefox fanboys are making everyone else look bad. Ultimately, that could reflect badly on you as a person.
That document has got nothing to do with XSLT. Opera is not opposed to XSLT, it just doesn't necessarily make sense, seeing as it requires client-side processing power, and Opera's biggest market is on mobile phones. Use XSLT and you've suddenly blocked mobile phones from accessing your site, as phones may not be able to handle the load.
The hostility! No wonder Firefox fans are getting a bad reputation :-(
Your posts says nothing useful about open vs. closed. All it does is to draw conclusions from dubious arguments. As you can see, Mozilla struggled for years before they stripped down the browser and the MSIE warnings started to appear everywhere. Rather than a simple factor, this whole thing is a matter of combinations of factors.
Also, Opera actually has to sell a product to survive. It has to make money. Firefox was primarily created to grow quickly, and since Mozilla gets dontations from huge corporations like Nokia, IBM, Sun, and so on, they don't have to worry about sales. They get the money anyway.
Opera needs to focus on the bottom line, and maybe, just maybe, it's more important for Opera to have enough money to keep up development, rather than throwing it all out just to grow and make nothing.
Opera 8 is even faster than previous versions as well. I have no idea how you can be talking about "bloat" and "more buggy", when clearly, they are fixing stuff like mad, and with three betas and countless previews in addition to that, Opera 8.0 is an extremely solid release.
Instead of fixing bugs? What are you talking about? Loads of bugs have been fixed during the beta tests. It is nothing but a blatant lie to claim that Opera has been fixing bugs instead of adding new features.But so what if they add new features? It's a good thing! Opera is expanding. They can afford to hire more devs, both to add new features, and to fix bugs.
Opera has always had a built-in e-mail client, so the point is moot. Except Firefox has lots of bugs of its own. Just recently, 1.0.3 was released with critical security fixes, whereas Opera is the only browser of the "big three" with no unpatched vulnerabilities.Whether Opera 8.0 renders it correctly or not is besides the point. The point is that this gives browser makers something to work towards.
Is this an actual phone call? :-D
People hate Steam because it gathers data about you, forces you to jump through hoops just to play offline, and so on. You will never stop piracy, so the only thing Steam has done is to piss off legitimate customers.
And what did they achieve? Nothing. Except pissing off customers, while the pirates were playing away. I bought HL. I will not buy HL2.Valve's decision to inconvenience their customers in this manner feels like an insult. Why should I have to jump through hoops to play a game I paid for, while the pirates are having none of these problems?
No, I really don't want to support Valve if they are going to spend my money on making life hard for their customers...
Those were difficult times. Italy was an ally of Nazi Germany. The Vatican could have done more. There were some things that weren't right. John Paul II (RIP) actually apologized to all Jews for the ill deeds done against them in the past by the Vatican.