Everything costs money. Someone has to pay. Firefox was created by the Mozilla organization, which receives donations from huge corporations like IBM, Sun and Nokia. Now, where does that money come from? The customers of those corporations of course. Is that necessarily a bad thing? No. But it does not negate the fact that creating a quality program like Firefox takes a lot of money and resources, and someone is paying for it.
"Opera is lagging behind yet again. It all depends on one's metrics, no?"
Opera is lagging behind since you pay for it up front, instead of pushing the cost to someone else? I fail to see the logic.
I don't know if this is a joke. For a moment, I will assume that you are actually serious...
"I've been waiting for a browser that would finally comply with the standards."
Just because Safari passes Acid2 doesn't mean that it fully supports the standards. It might still have bugs (in fact, I bet it has plenty of them, like all browsers) and parts that have not yet been implemented.
"Even though I use safari, I was willing to switch over to firefox if it began to support that standard."
"That" standard? Which one? Acid2 is not a standard. It's a test which reveals bugs/problems in browsers.
"I'm surprised that microsoft hasn't complied with it."
I'm surprised that you are surprised about this...
"Eitherway, I'm glad to see safari was first out the door."
Not yet. It hasn't made it into an official release yet, and there's plenty of regression testing to be done. Some of these fixes could break real-world web sites.
"Yet you're still posting from windows, aren't you?"
Your point being?
I stick with Windows because that's where all the software I use exists. That's what all the games I play are available for. That's where my digital camera plugs in without any driver installation nonsense.
That doesn't mean that I am happy with the changes Microsoft is trying to force through. That doesn't mean that I can't criticize them for wanting to take away my control over my own system.
It doesn't mean that I can't be frustrated because in reality I have no choice, since Microsoft has the market cornered, and things like games simply aren't available for anything else, except for Mac, but there are far fewer of them, and they are a lot more expensive. Besides, I like building my own machines with parts I choose myself.
"The mozilla foundation made a browser that was faster, simpler and slimmer. All of those things the community was clamoring for. What was it that moz.org did that went against the grain?"
They didn't add all the features people wanted, and they made very unpopular decisions, such as killing the style switcher in 1.0. This was a big deal to a lot of vocal Mozilla fans.
"Well, there are consensus out there. Jar Jar was almost universally reviled, Han shot first, midiclorians (or whatever the hell those were), etc."
Jar-Jar? What about the Ewoks?
I think you've been blinded by fond childhood memories;) (If you were a child when you first saw SW, that is.)
"To be short. Opera sued M$ for fucking up competition. They won, and cashed in $ 80 mill. Probably, in the settlement agreement, they both agreed to shut their mouth... Cause no newspapers could state that it was microsoft, they only insinuated... One thing is for sure, Opera cashed in $ 80 mill from a lawsuit in 2004."
There was no lawsuit. Opera got money from someone for something, but there was no lawsuit. But where is this lawsuit against someone who created an ad blocker for Opera?
"And what to do, if some really annoying adds beat the little home made ad blocker? And you really need to change the source code? I'm 100% sure Opera won't help you."
Are you serious, or are you pulling my leg? Opera doesn't have a built-in ad blocker. The bloody point is that there are several ways to block ads with Opera, most of which are third party solutions. Lots of them exist even though you claim that Opera sued people who created an ad blocker for Opera.
"You must understand tha the Opera bussiness model is based on the view of commercial interests(only?)."
Actually, no. If that were the case, then the founders would have left ages ago, with millions in their pockets. Opera is a tiny company with a vision.
"I run Knoppix and Firefox, and are very happy with that. I wrote the \. article in anger over the overdimentioned hype of Opera."
Overdimentioned Opera hype?! What about the overdimentioned Firefox hype?
Now, quit slithering away:
Come now, little boy, give me some specific examples where Opera has sued someone for ad blocking or software patents.
"But I think his biggest problem, is that he wants it his way, and not want his die-hard fans want."
His way is the right way, since it's his creation. But anyway, listening to fans? You know why Firefox is so successful? Because Mozilla.org did the right thing and (mostly) ignored the vocal people in the community, and did what's best for Firefox, and not for the people who shout the loudest. Just because someone is vocal about something doesn't mean that they are right. What is needed is a clear vision, and someone to make all the decisions. The right decisions.
Now, whether Lucas has made the right decisions or not... I don't think he has. But there are probably as many opinions as there are fans. He can't "listen to the fans", because "the fans" is really millions of people with different opinions!
"Apparently, over a million in four days.
- You really trust that?"
I have no reason not to. Opera is known to be a good company.
That google bar is logging where you surf"
Actually, all it does is to send relevant ads. It would be illegal for Google to gather data about you, as it's against the privacy policy, and a breach of contract between Opera and Google.
Besides, it's optional, and not even enabled by default. You are given clear instructions on what it does before you yourself turn them on.
"And when you say "won't even notice them" You are a Troll."
Actually, no. I am simply telling the truth, as opposed to your FUD and lies.
"I'm not 'insinuating', I'm telling you. How did Opera get so rich? They sued."
Uh, for your information, since you clearly are completely ignorant: Opera Software is a tiny company. Rich? What is that supposed to mean? And who did they sue? Do you even have a single shred of evidence to support this ridiculous and obviously false claim?
"And now, when they are rich, they got to guard their commercial interests, and propritary code. We'll see what happens..."
Come now, little boy, give me some specific examples where Opera has sued someone for ad blocking or software patents.
"Please man, do you really think Opera is controlling all the web? Opera is a browser..."
You are not making sense. You claimed that Opera sued someone for creating an ad blocker for Opera. I pointed out that lots of people have created ad blockers for Opera, and they are not being sued.
"You must be naive? Is that the case? Your naivistic anger made you write this repply?"
I am naive because I point out simple facts that counter your brainwashed FUD?
"And Tetzhnes did not drow, because he floated on his belly fat. He reached to hundret meters, before they picked him up."
Your point being?
"From my point of view, you are the commercial infected troll."
Did you know that the FSF encourages open-source vendors to sell software? That open-source is in no way the opposite of commercial? That companies like Red Hat, Novell, IBM, and so on, are commercial entities building their business on Linux?
Seriously, you are simply delusional. I hope for your sake that you are trolling, but I'm beginning to think that you actually are this stupid.
I notice that you did not respond to the AC, and did not post info about these so-called "hate mails".
How about backing up your ridiculous accusations?
"I "the web designer", not I "the Opera user", cannot remove the default functionality of the backspace key"
Which is a good thing.
"As for your following note to post the question on the Opera Forums, I did and I have been receiving loads of hate mail every day for the past two weeks."
Prove it. I searched for your name in the forums, and there was no "hate mail", just lots of people telling you that the user should bein control.
If you do have a site license, then fix Opera on your site instead of expecting Opera to cripple its browser by allowing web pages to override keys.
"This is not a case of "why would I want to let websites disable or change the behavious of my backspace key?" This is a case of Opera not letting websites that you create change the behaviour of your own backspace key as you like. Opera is making the decision for you. All other browsers let you make the decision."
What you are really saying is that Opera should let the web page decide what the user does with Backspace. You don't like the fact that Opera leaves control in the hands of the user.
Fair enough, but don't pretend to be on some holy mission to save users from the "evil" that is Opera and its empowering of the user.
Yes, that's where it started. But today, Mozilla gets its funding from other major corporations.
"FWIW, IBM and Nokia ARE Opera business partners, and Nokia is one of the biggest purchasers of Opera (heck, they even got a CUSTOM VERSION!) Yes, Nokia funds Mozilla, also, for MiniMo."
Right. The difference is that Opera actually sells a product to Nokia. Nokia doesn't just give Opera money. They have a specific business contract, etc.
"Oh, and Adobe and Macromedia (same company now, though) were both business partners (Dreamweaver and GoLive used Presto, their rendering engine). Now, Adobe uses Presto in CS2."
Very true, and the difference between Opera and Mozilla is that Opera needs to sell a product, whereas Mozilla is left alone to, well, do as it pleases, and it gets lots of cash from several huge corporations. Nokia, some have speculated, are funding Mozilla to avoid antitrust lawsuits (seeing as they are working on their own browser as well).
"Who cares to download software with big ad banners?"
Apparently, over a million in four days. On the other hand, the Google ads are nothing but a tiny strip across the top of the screen. You won't even notice them.
"And they don't have an ad blocker:( The guy who wrote that for them, got sued for it."
And who, exactly, sued him, eh? Are you insinuating that Opera sued someone for creating an ad blocker? What a load of crap.
"Its only a mater of time before Opera and Tetzchner drowns."
He's floating! And Opera has been around for ten years. It isn't going anywhere any time soon, especially not with the incredible success that is the Opera 8.0 launch.
Sorry, I know... Don't feed the trolls... But if one lets the trolls post without anyone correcting them, people might believe their drivel.
Firefox doesn't do "all of that" for free. It relies on untested third party software to emulate Opera's features. Also, it costs me lots of time to mess around with extensions.
Smaller, faster, more secure, more functionality built in, and everything is working smoothly together, as opposted to being crudely tacked onto the program in the form of untested third party software.
"Opera proudly offered a short while later to give me a *discount* (something like -only- $25 for the upgrade)"
Uh, the upgrade price is USD 15 today. It was probably something like 10 back then. Also, you get every second upgrade for free. Also, if you bought Opera just before 7.0, you have gotten more than two years of free upgrades, and Opera 8.0 is a free upgrade to everyone.
"Note to software CEOs: if you're trying to sell something that is availble free, don't screw over the people who do buy your product. They have long memories."
Apparently not, since they can't even remember what they paid! Screw over? FUD.
Don't feed the AC trolls... Sorry, I shouldn't have posted.
Of course I will download it. Opera is a tiny software company in a world of other browser owned or sponsored by huge corporations (IE = Microsoft, Mozilla = Sun, IBM, Nokia, etc.). A PR stunt like this shows that the tiny company Opera Software doesn't take itself too seriously, which is a good thing.
"So, by downloading and using Opera you're supporting adware."
Nothing wrong with that. Adware != spyware.
"Imagine the outrage that would occur if Internet Explorer included ads built into the browser and Microsoft offered to remove them if you paid for it. I do believe there would be lawsuits galore. I searched through the comments to this post, and I saw nothing mentioning these forced ads."
Forced ads? Lawsuits? First of all, you already pay for IE. It's part of the Windows OS, which is not free. Secondly, Opera is the only independent browser vendor (IE = Microsoft, Mozilla = IBM, Nokia, Sun, etc.), and no one is forcing you to use Opera. However, you can use it for free in ad sponsored mode, or you can buy it to get rid of the ads.
Opera has to fund development somehow, and basically your comment is nothing but FUD.
Microsoft, like Mozilla, focuses primarily on marketing. Opera doesn't do much marketing, unfortunately. So it is a superior program, but the marketing leaves something to be desired.
It's obvious when you look at Opera: A smaller download, with more functionality, a faster browser, more stable, and lighter on resources.
"Microsoft dumped Nintendo, suggesting they went into the relationship with less-than-honest intentions"
Actually, I heard it was the other way around. Nintendo pretended to be interested in partnering with Microsoft, so that they could learn more about Microsoft's strategies. They then dumped Microsoft, as they had planned to all along.
With free alternatives around, Opera must certainly be better than the competition if people are to use it. And lo and behold, Opera's revenues are skyrocketing. They may have a niche market, but people who use Opera have certainly made a conscious decision to use it, seeing as there are, to them, inferior but free alternatives out there. On the other hand, most people may just want something for free, even if it's inferior.
I don't get your comparison between the Atari ST and Amiga. Are you saying that even if Opera is technically better than Firefox, Firefox is still better because it's free, and that's all that matters?
Opera's got all the innovations, the speed, the small size, the smoothly integrated features (as opposed to crudely tacked on extensions that conflict with each other and crash the browser). No worrying about whether all those extensions needed to even come close to Opera's functionality will stop working when you upgrade to a newer version of the program...
I don't know why I even bother writing this. Clearly, someone who thinks that people who have made a conscious decision to use a commercial program instead of a free version are stupid and "put up with inferior software" hasn't quite taken the time to realize that people seem to prefer "free and mediocre" rather than "not free, but excellent".
Point is, you more or less indirectly say that people are "putting up with an inferior browser" (Opera), as if people are stupid and can't make up their own minds about it, and if they did, they would all come to the conclusion that Firefox is better. That's just a silly way of seeing things. Clearly, some people do prefer Opera, and they are not stupid or putting up with an "inferior browser".
If anyone puts up with an "inferior browser" is the people who refuse to use Opera simply because it is not free/open. Opera users use Opera because they prefer the way it works, but I've seen Firefox users that use Firefox simply because it's free. They are the ones putting up with an inferior browser.
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I explained why I use Windows. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your fiction.
I stick with Windows because that's where all the software I use exists. That's what all the games I play are available for. That's where my digital camera plugs in without any driver installation nonsense.
That doesn't mean that I am happy with the changes Microsoft is trying to force through. That doesn't mean that I can't criticize them for wanting to take away my control over my own system.
It doesn't mean that I can't be frustrated because in reality I have no choice, since Microsoft has the market cornered, and things like games simply aren't available for anything else, except for Mac, but there are far fewer of them, and they are a lot more expensive. Besides, I like building my own machines with parts I choose myself.
I think you've been blinded by fond childhood memories ;) (If you were a child when you first saw SW, that is.)
Now, quit slithering away:
Come now, little boy, give me some specific examples where Opera has sued someone for ad blocking or software patents.
Now, whether Lucas has made the right decisions or not... I don't think he has. But there are probably as many opinions as there are fans. He can't "listen to the fans", because "the fans" is really millions of people with different opinions!
See what I'm saying?
Besides, it's optional, and not even enabled by default. You are given clear instructions on what it does before you yourself turn them on.
Actually, no. I am simply telling the truth, as opposed to your FUD and lies. Uh, for your information, since you clearly are completely ignorant: Opera Software is a tiny company. Rich? What is that supposed to mean? And who did they sue? Do you even have a single shred of evidence to support this ridiculous and obviously false claim? How about you try to inform yourself before spewing out FUD and lies? Read Opera Software's position on software patents yourself, and stop being silly. You can read about how they want a patent-free web too.Come now, little boy, give me some specific examples where Opera has sued someone for ad blocking or software patents.
You are not making sense. You claimed that Opera sued someone for creating an ad blocker for Opera. I pointed out that lots of people have created ad blockers for Opera, and they are not being sued. I am naive because I point out simple facts that counter your brainwashed FUD? Your point being? Did you know that the FSF encourages open-source vendors to sell software? That open-source is in no way the opposite of commercial? That companies like Red Hat, Novell, IBM, and so on, are commercial entities building their business on Linux?Seriously, you are simply delusional. I hope for your sake that you are trolling, but I'm beginning to think that you actually are this stupid.
How old are you?
You need to get Opera 8. It's better in, well, every way.
How about backing up your ridiculous accusations?
Which is a good thing. Prove it. I searched for your name in the forums, and there was no "hate mail", just lots of people telling you that the user should bein control.If you do have a site license, then fix Opera on your site instead of expecting Opera to cripple its browser by allowing web pages to override keys.
Fair enough, but don't pretend to be on some holy mission to save users from the "evil" that is Opera and its empowering of the user.
If this were the case, then how, pray tell, are these guys getting away with creating ad blockers for Opera?
He's floating! And Opera has been around for ten years. It isn't going anywhere any time soon, especially not with the incredible success that is the Opera 8.0 launch.Sorry, I know... Don't feed the trolls... But if one lets the trolls post without anyone correcting them, people might believe their drivel.
You are wrong, ZDNET didn't read the actual press release. He will swim if they do get one million downloads in four days.
There is always a cost. With Opera it's up-front.
Smaller, faster, more secure, more functionality built in, and everything is working smoothly together, as opposted to being crudely tacked onto the program in the form of untested third party software.
Don't feed the AC trolls... Sorry, I shouldn't have posted.
Of course I will download it. Opera is a tiny software company in a world of other browser owned or sponsored by huge corporations (IE = Microsoft, Mozilla = Sun, IBM, Nokia, etc.). A PR stunt like this shows that the tiny company Opera Software doesn't take itself too seriously, which is a good thing.
Opera has to fund development somehow, and basically your comment is nothing but FUD.
It's obvious when you look at Opera: A smaller download, with more functionality, a faster browser, more stable, and lighter on resources.
I don't get your comparison between the Atari ST and Amiga. Are you saying that even if Opera is technically better than Firefox, Firefox is still better because it's free, and that's all that matters?
Opera's got all the innovations, the speed, the small size, the smoothly integrated features (as opposed to crudely tacked on extensions that conflict with each other and crash the browser). No worrying about whether all those extensions needed to even come close to Opera's functionality will stop working when you upgrade to a newer version of the program...
I don't know why I even bother writing this. Clearly, someone who thinks that people who have made a conscious decision to use a commercial program instead of a free version are stupid and "put up with inferior software" hasn't quite taken the time to realize that people seem to prefer "free and mediocre" rather than "not free, but excellent".
If anyone puts up with an "inferior browser" is the people who refuse to use Opera simply because it is not free/open. Opera users use Opera because they prefer the way it works, but I've seen Firefox users that use Firefox simply because it's free. They are the ones putting up with an inferior browser.