Seriously, how often do regular people install Windows? Once in their lifetime?
As for MS propaganda, they're going to have to explain what a browser is for those who have no idea, and will likely tell the user that IE was the default in previous versions of Windows.
They would not have to tell people that IE was the default, no.
One of Opera's biggest weaknesses is the inability to handle nonstandard pages written for IE as well as Firefox and Safari do.
I'm sorry, but this is completely false. Opera's problem is that it did not get the free compatibility ride that Firefox did, and it has a much longer history than Safari (which means that many sites contain workarounds for quirks in very old Opera versions, and haven't been updated yet).
Opera's problem is not that it doesn't handle nonstandard code as well as the others. It probably handles it much better because it doesn't get a free ride unlike IE, Firefox, and to a certain extent Safari. The main problem for Opera today is browser sniffing discriminating against Opera users.
Brand new browsers like Chrome or Safari for Windows got a MUCH larger share of the market in mere weeks than Opera managed to get in over a decade.
Actually, Opera is the #3 browser both globally and in Europe. In Europe, its market share is higher than Chrome and Safari combined. Also, Opera has only been free for 3-4 years. Before that it was not meant for the mass market.
Opera doesn't have market share because they make a product nobody wants of. They can't even give it away, it's that awful.
Actually, Opera has more than doubled its desktop base in less than two years.
The hate is due to their sense of entitlement, and the fact that for all their talk their browser still hasn't managed to attract any more than a token market share in over 12 years, whilst multiple competing browsers have out-performed it in much shorter time periods.
Actually, Opera is the #3 browser both globally and in Europe. In Europe, its market share is higher than Chrome and Safari combined.
In any case, the "market share = we all should be using IE" argument is a red herring. IE is the de facto browser that obtains its market share purely from the fact that it's bundled. Only the alternatives to IE actually compete on quality (ie, they need to be a sufficiently better alternative for most to bother), and it's that competition which Opera fails at.
Actually, the fact is that IE does not compete fairly, and even Chrome has failed to gain significant market share. Firefox is an anomaly. The fact that you need a non-profit organization to make a dent in the market means that something is seriously wrong.
Actually, Opera still completely spoofs as other browsers for lots of major sites. They have settings that override the defaults and are downloaded regularly to work around browser sniffing.
Why exactly would anyone PAY for an advertising campaign for a FREE product which they make no money on because they give it away for FREE. I think Opera pretty much survives on licensing their embedded browsers.
Actually, 1/3 of Opera's total revenue comes from the desktop version. They get paid every time someone searches from the user interface, just like Mozilla.
Its not really clear why they are still even in the desktop browser business other than for brand awareness which isn't really working for them.
Actually, Opera's desktop user base was 40 million a few months ago, which was more than twice as much as less than 2 years ago.
I wager Opera is pretty much just burning money still doing a desktop browser at all, I think there business is all embedded browsers.
Nope. They are making money off the desktop browser. And what's also great about having a desktop browser is that you get loads of free testing, which makes all products based on the same engine much better.
You should tell browser companies like Mozilla Corp., Access, OpenWave and Opera that. I mean, they make a living out of browsers. I guess they just don't know that there is no browser market.
So, why is Opera "gloating" over IE when they themselves has a LOT of work to do on their own SVG support
Because your single experiment in no way represents the overall conformance to SVG. Opera has the best SVG support of any browser, period. But if they didn't have to waste most of their time emulating IE bugs in order to work with various sites, it could have been much better still!
Flash is "the" choice because Microsoft has successfully been holding back the web for many years.
Remember the latest Flash exploit with no patch, leaving 90% of the world's desktop computers wide open to attack? Yeah, Flash must die. And we can thank Microsoft for these single points of failure.
I love how I get modded down for daring to say something that isn't anti MSFT.
You get modded down for making dumbass comments that are nothing but ignorant nonsense.
As for "what P2P" where have YOU been? That is the big thing Opera has been pushing with Opera 10!
Actually, it's just a built in web server, not a P2P app as you would normally consider them. The "file sharing" thing is just over-simplified nonsense.
And the reason I said Opera should "get off their asses and compete" is because of this from the CTO of Opera now wanting Linux and Apple to have ballot boxes too!
Actually, he said that it might be a good idea, not that he demanded that they do it. Pay attention. Once again, Microsoft shills base their comments on ignorance and knee-jerk reactions.
Look, the question is simple: with a market absolutely flooded with competition, where exactly will this end. Will the EU demand that ALL have a "ballot box"? They have already wanted WMP and IE gone, what is next, notepad?
That depends on whether Microsoft broke the law with Notepad or not. Considering that Notepad reads and writes standard text files just fine and doesn't lock people into using it, I doubt that.
The simple facts are these: Microsoft owns Windows, don't like it?
It doesn't matter if I like it or not. Microsoft still dominates, and has illegally abused their dominance in the OS market to undermine competition in the browser market.
But I oppose government bodies telling what a company can and can't include in their own product
You break the law, you face the consequences.
I'm sorry, but whether you hate MSFT or not this is just bullshit.
It isn't bullshit. It is just you who are ignorant, bigoted and hypocritical. Even Microsoft fully supports and embraces EU competition law.
And I would LMAO if they ended up forcing Apple and Linux to jump through the same hoops like the CTO of Opera would like to see.
Please stop lying. He said it might be a good idea, not that they should be forced to.
a market with heavy competition
Ignorance is bliss.
trying to make the market lean the way that they think is best, not what the actual consumer really wants
So you know what the consumer really wants, and that's IE?
Of course more people will start using Opera. A certain number of people will be curious about it. Most people have never heard about other browsers than IE, remember.
Opera if you want to compete, get off your lazy ass and do it! Firefox is growing, so is Chrome and Safari and without ANY help from the nanny government!
As is Opera. Its desktop user base has doubled in less than two years. They reported having more than 40 million users a few months ago, and it just keeps growing. They also have 20-30 million Opera Mini users (not counting users from preinstalls).
Also, why are you whining like a little crybaby over Opera? Both Google and Mozilla joined the complaint, and helped advise the EC, just like Opera did.
Maybe instead of putting dumb ass P2P crap into your browser
Weren't they the guys who claimed users will gladly flock to the Most Standard Compliant Browser Ever?
Really? When and where? Source, please.
I think after some time with the ballot and still no noticeable market share growth (and by noticeable I mean really noticeable, like 3-5% in absolute numbers) they will have to rethink this whole "standards make the world go round" mantra.
Opera was built from scratch to handle broken sites, so clearly this "mantra" is something only ignorant people or liars are talking about. There was no such mantra from Opera.
The requirements aren't reasonable, because they are favoring some browser vendors, and discriminatory towards others.
The requirements are indeed reasonable because, in pratice, there are only about 5 "mainstream" browser vendors. Also, removing Microsoft's grip on the market has huge benefits even for smaller browsers since sites will be forced to code for standards instead of browsers, and that makes the barrier to entry much lower.
Yet another insane conspiracy theorist. The problem with your insane conspiracy theory is that it wasn't the EU which started this. Microsoft's violations of the law were reported by someone else (outside the EU, in fact). The EU followed up on the report as they had to, and found that yes, Microsoft had indeed broken the law.
If you are now trying to deny that Microsoft broke the law, you are a complete moron.
Wait, so it's OK that IE "forces out newer technologies", but when you actually restore some competition to the browser market, even for those not available on the ballot (because the barrier to entry is lower due to sites being forced to be standards compliant), that's bad? Wow.
Also, who are the "giants"? Mozilla is a tiny organization!
The issue is that Microsoft broke the law with its operating system, and abusing its dominance to undermine competition. How fucking hard can it be. Do you Microsoft defenders even have one single working brain cell?
So what you are saying is that a free market can have no rules what so ever? If the market is to be "free", you should be able to do anything what so ever, including price fixing, cartels, etc.?
Slashdot Mirror
Actually, they are. They have been convicted in several countries, including the U.S. and Korea.
Seriously, how often do regular people install Windows? Once in their lifetime?
They would not have to tell people that IE was the default, no.
Because they broke the law.
Antitrust laws are anything BUT socialist. Antitrust laws are there specifically to ensure that no one abuses the free market.
I'm sorry, but this is completely false. Opera's problem is that it did not get the free compatibility ride that Firefox did, and it has a much longer history than Safari (which means that many sites contain workarounds for quirks in very old Opera versions, and haven't been updated yet).
Opera's problem is not that it doesn't handle nonstandard code as well as the others. It probably handles it much better because it doesn't get a free ride unlike IE, Firefox, and to a certain extent Safari. The main problem for Opera today is browser sniffing discriminating against Opera users.
Actually, Opera is the #3 browser both globally and in Europe. In Europe, its market share is higher than Chrome and Safari combined. Also, Opera has only been free for 3-4 years. Before that it was not meant for the mass market.
Actually, Opera has more than doubled its desktop base in less than two years.
Actually, Opera is the #3 browser both globally and in Europe. In Europe, its market share is higher than Chrome and Safari combined.
Actually, the fact is that IE does not compete fairly, and even Chrome has failed to gain significant market share. Firefox is an anomaly. The fact that you need a non-profit organization to make a dent in the market means that something is seriously wrong.
Actually, Opera still completely spoofs as other browsers for lots of major sites. They have settings that override the defaults and are downloaded regularly to work around browser sniffing.
Actually, 1/3 of Opera's total revenue comes from the desktop version. They get paid every time someone searches from the user interface, just like Mozilla.
Actually, Opera's desktop user base was 40 million a few months ago, which was more than twice as much as less than 2 years ago.
Nope. They are making money off the desktop browser. And what's also great about having a desktop browser is that you get loads of free testing, which makes all products based on the same engine much better.
You should tell browser companies like Mozilla Corp., Access, OpenWave and Opera that. I mean, they make a living out of browsers. I guess they just don't know that there is no browser market.
Because your single experiment in no way represents the overall conformance to SVG. Opera has the best SVG support of any browser, period. But if they didn't have to waste most of their time emulating IE bugs in order to work with various sites, it could have been much better still!
It does, and you know by now because knowledgeable people have told you. Stop pretending to be an idiot. You are a Microsoft shill.
Remember the latest Flash exploit with no patch, leaving 90% of the world's desktop computers wide open to attack? Yeah, Flash must die. And we can thank Microsoft for these single points of failure.
You get modded down for making dumbass comments that are nothing but ignorant nonsense.
Actually, it's just a built in web server, not a P2P app as you would normally consider them. The "file sharing" thing is just over-simplified nonsense.
Actually, he said that it might be a good idea, not that he demanded that they do it. Pay attention. Once again, Microsoft shills base their comments on ignorance and knee-jerk reactions.
That depends on whether Microsoft broke the law with Notepad or not. Considering that Notepad reads and writes standard text files just fine and doesn't lock people into using it, I doubt that.
It doesn't matter if I like it or not. Microsoft still dominates, and has illegally abused their dominance in the OS market to undermine competition in the browser market.
You break the law, you face the consequences.
It isn't bullshit. It is just you who are ignorant, bigoted and hypocritical. Even Microsoft fully supports and embraces EU competition law.
Please stop lying. He said it might be a good idea, not that they should be forced to.
Ignorance is bliss.
So you know what the consumer really wants, and that's IE?
Of course more people will start using Opera. A certain number of people will be curious about it. Most people have never heard about other browsers than IE, remember.
Dear child... Opera does support plugins!
As is Opera. Its desktop user base has doubled in less than two years. They reported having more than 40 million users a few months ago, and it just keeps growing. They also have 20-30 million Opera Mini users (not counting users from preinstalls).
Also, Opera is currently bigger than Safari and Chrome combined in Europe (and also the #3 browser worldwide, but that's less relevant to the EU case.).
Also, why are you whining like a little crybaby over Opera? Both Google and Mozilla joined the complaint, and helped advise the EC, just like Opera did.
What "P2P crap"? Is Slashdot "P2P crap"?
Really? When and where? Source, please.
Opera was built from scratch to handle broken sites, so clearly this "mantra" is something only ignorant people or liars are talking about. There was no such mantra from Opera.
The requirements are indeed reasonable because, in pratice, there are only about 5 "mainstream" browser vendors. Also, removing Microsoft's grip on the market has huge benefits even for smaller browsers since sites will be forced to code for standards instead of browsers, and that makes the barrier to entry much lower.
Why would they do that? Is Mac OS X a dominant operating system?
Why would they do that?
So abiding by the law is "caving in"? Wow.
If you are now trying to deny that Microsoft broke the law, you are a complete moron.
Also, who are the "giants"? Mozilla is a tiny organization!
The issue is that Microsoft broke the law with its operating system, and abusing its dominance to undermine competition. How fucking hard can it be. Do you Microsoft defenders even have one single working brain cell?
So what you are saying is that a free market can have no rules what so ever? If the market is to be "free", you should be able to do anything what so ever, including price fixing, cartels, etc.?