Think applying real-time effects to a 1080p video stream (with a preview) and compressing it to H.264 on the fly. On your phone.
A lot of that sort of stuff is also hardware-accelerated where you hand off a stream to the appropriate API and the device will encode/decode using hardware features while using very little CPU.
Dual core CPUs allow the OS to do one thing in the background and not bog down the device for the running application, but what on earth are you going to do with 4 CPUs when you can only interact with 1 program at a time?
You do know that iPhone apps can do quite a lot in the background, even if only one app can have focus at one time, right? Right now apps are deliberately curtailed to only certain background activities because of the limitations of the amount of cores, adding in more cores and more powerful cores will allow apps to do more in the background.
The limitation of being able to interact with one app at a time is due to UI constraints. Even on a regular computer there isn't much case for multiple programs being visible to the user at one time. For the most part a user isn't able to fully interact with multiple programs at a time, the usual case is to view a document in one app while doing work in another. A better solution to this is to allow programs to share their display engines so that a single program can run and display documents from other programs while only having one program running at a time.
The model of one application running with a few lighter weight processes doing background work makes sense for devices with tight resources and that's the model that iOS is attempting to follow.
Downside of Apple products, especially if you are outside the US, is that if it needs service, you're without your product for many weeks.
In the past I've run a couple of labs with a few dozen Macs.
I don't know outside of the US but my experience in the US is that a repair takes a few days at most. Apple next days a box to you, you pack the computer and it next days back. They take a day or two to repair it and then they next day it to you.
Or you can bring it to a local Apple-authorized service center and they'll usually have it done in a day or so if they have the parts, an extra day if they have to order parts.
I think the longest time I've seen an Apple repair take was 4 or 5 days for some obscure part they had to order.
The only surprising thing here is that they allow access to that circuitry via the normal device ports.
This is not debugging circuitry. This is a normal serial interface that has been known about for a good long time and is even talked about in Apple's documentation. You do need to have a breakout cable to access the serial lines but once you have that it works just like any other serial port does under Darwin.
I made an assumption that there is a market for more open phones and I believe, (maybe incorrectly), that Android based phones are more open than iPhones. I could be wrong, but that would amaze me actually. They are not more open?
They are as open as each individual manufacturer wants them to be - which, in many cases, is pretty damn closed up.
Sure there are ways to open them up, just like you can open up the iPhone, but it's not a simple process on a lot of them.
So you have a 255 byte string. You append one byte to it. What do you do now?
Are you really suggesting that people should have to move all the bytes of the string one further along so they can increase the length field to two bytes, and then append the new character, and that programmers who can't remember to put a 0 at the end of a string can do that without screwing up?
I would think that the more logical way to handle this is to handle the string in chunks. The first byte (8 bits) of the string is the length, if all of the length bits are set then at offset 256 from the length byte you have another length byte and another section of the string. Rinse, repeat.
Yes, for very large strings this isn't as efficient as simply using 16 bits at the front of the string (65536 positions in 2 bytes vs 512 positions in 2 bytes) but for small strings - probably the most common case - it is just about as efficient as a null-terminated string.
Returning something you bought over a month ago is generally not that easy. And with Apple changing its conditions like this, I doubt anyone really knew in advance what was coming.
Considering the fact that Apple said the conditions were changing back in February and 5 months later these app makers are changing their apps, I'd say there was plenty of advance warning.
Besides, you can always sell off the device if you are past the grace period.
Anyways, like I said: caveat emptor, let the buyer beware. If you don't do your research before you buy anything then you're stuck with what you've bought. Apple has been pretty open about the direction they are going in regards to how stuff is billed in their stores, a modicum of research would have informed a person as to what type of device they were buying.
There's one subtle but important difference between the App Store and any other kind of store: When you don't want to sell your stuff through a normal store, you can always look for an alternative, go to the competitor, set up your own store, or whatever.
If you're an informed consumer then you know that's the case when you buy an iDevice. You'll either have to use Apple's stores or jailbreak. If you're fine with that then an iDevice is just the thing for you.
If you're not an informed consumer then caveat emptor. You always have the option of returning the device and buying another brand that better fits how you want to use it.
Suppose that everything you put into your car, from brake fluid to fluffy dice to toys in the back for the kids, had to be bought at an official Ford dealer. Yes, there are other car brands available, but it's still unreasonably restrictive.
That's not a reasonable analogy, even if it is the obligatory car analogy. iDevices have a pretty good web browser that can provide all sorts of content and services and they can also use music, videos, books, and other documents from other stores. I have tons of stuff that I bought from other sources that work just fine on my iPhone so it's not as complete of a lock-in as it's often made out to be.
Every store I visit offers their product at or very near the MSRP. In the instances where it's a different price it's because it's lower due to sale or clearance. I've yet to visit any store that sells goods for above the MSRP, and I'd imaging they wouldn't be in business very long.
MSRP is NOT the actual cost of the item, it's the cost of the item to the retailer plus a certain amount of profit. For quite a lot of stores out there the actual price is 50% that of the MSRP - that's 100% "profit".
Now what's the price of something sold through the Apple stores? The MSRP is the price listed for the item and the original cost is 70% of that. It's that simple, the Apple stores work just like every other store out there: items in them have a markup to cover distribution, hardware, software development, labor costs, and - hopefully - a profit!
Nothing evil here, it's business as it's been operating for millions (at least!) of companies for thousands of years...
Apple makes about 30% profit on their devices. They make 30% profit on apps sold through the app store.
And a brick-and-mortar store often makes anywhere from 50% to 200% profit on stuff sold through their store. Amazon makes money on stuff sold through its store. Google makes money on stuff sold through their outlets.
Every store has its rules and as long as the rules are spelled out and applied evenly then the only question becomes: "Do I want to buy or sell stuff through that store?"
If Apple asks for too much then rest assured they will have people dropping support for the store. If they are asking for the right amount then people will come to the store. There's nothing evil in this, it's pure business. Right now Apple has a lot of people interested in buying stuff through their stores so they can make it a condition to sellers that Apple gets a cut.
And don't think that the 30% is pure profit to Apple. There are development costs for the software running the stores, there are administrative costs, hardware costs, bandwidth costs, etc. In fact, the last time I saw numbers on the stores they weren't turning much of a profit at all, they were meeting costs and making a little bit extra.
As evidenced by the number of people willing to sell through the Apple stores there are a lot of people who think that a 30% cut is a fair price to pay for the benefits of selling through the stores. That should speak for itself.
For one thing, Boot Camp increases the price of a Mac by $200, the price of a copy of retail Windows, making Apple products look even more overpriced.
For these few users they were fine with that. For the people who only browse the web and such they never needed to pay the extra.
I'm sure that it might deter some people from getting a Mac but I think that most people will just use the copy of Windows XP or Vista that they had from their previous computer and will be happy enough with that. After all, they are probably going to be in Mac OS X most of the time anyways.
Really, cos when I asked a question about it on the forums, it was deleted.
The forums aren't for suggestions or product feedback, they are for help with bugs and such. If you want to submit a suggestion you have to go to the right place:
I've had some of my ideas incorporated into Apple products. I probably wasn't the only person who suggested them but the point is that Apple does improve their products based on customer feedback.
By the way, from what I hear this feature is already incorporated into Mac OS X 10.7.
Until you find them trying and failing to use Wine for Mac OS X to run an application designed for Windows that has no close substitute designed for Mac OS X.
Which is why I have them run Bootcamp. They rarely need to do it but there is one or two of them that occasionally boot into Windows for a game or some specialized software that have no Mac equivalent.
However, those tend to be the more tech-savvy ones in the first place. Everyone else does mostly web, e-mail, and some light spreadsheets or text editing. For those people there is pretty much zero need to run Windows.
And as black isn't one of the predetermined colors given to you by Apple... it's not an arbitrary roadblock, it's a roadblock I've actually had to deal with many many times. So many times that I generally have a 32x32 black png file on my memory stick just in case a mac user needs a black background.
Cute little trick:
1. Open terminal 2. sips -c 1 1 ~/Library/Desktop\ Pictures/Solid\ Colors/Solid\ Gray\ Dark.png --out ~/Desktop/small.png 3. Right-click on desktop, choose "Change Desktop Background..." 4. Drag small.png to the "well" above the list of images. 5. Choose "Center" from the drop-down to the right of that 6. Click on the color button to the right of that and pick a color.
The sips command crops an image to 1x1, in this case I used the darkest solid color Apple has, and creates a new file with that one pixel. You can then put that single pixel on the screen and color the background to whatever you want. You'll have a single pixel of the original image in the middle of the screen but it's good for a pinch in your presentation scenario.
Yeah, this is not for a non-tech user but it's good for the times you don't have that black png handy.
Do I think that it's an oversight for Apple to not make this an easier task? Sure but it's not holding me back from using the platform. It's a fairly minor issue. Bug Apple about it, they actually do listen!
Now, do that on a machine without an internet connection.
Now you're just coming up with arbitrary roadblocks. This is the year 2011, nearly every computer is connected to the internet at some time or another. Yes, this trick doesn't work in every single case but it's good enough for the vast majority.
The original argument was:
No one can argue that Macs have a beautiful interface but it simply is not OK for a person or computer company to dictate that it can't be changed...
This has been proven to be false. Yeah, it might not be as customizable as some people would like but it CAN be changed.
Last time I used OSX, it wasn't like you could pick an arbitrary background color. You had to do what the article describes. Now, if that's changed, then I am misinformed.
1. Run Safari 2. Google Image solid color blue 3. Right-click on an image and choose "Use Image as Desktop Picture"
It's a little obscure but simple. I think most people will use images off the web for desktop backgrounds anyways so this might be more intuitive for the masses than for tech people.
I know its purely anecdotal but I have Apple computers that are PowerPCs and they are still running well without problems. I have several first generation Intel models and I haven't had a problem. During that same period, I've had 1 dead Sony laptop, 3 dead Dell Desktops, and 2 operational but basically worthless Dell laptops due to their cases breaking at key mechanical points (eg hinges, latches, keyboard).
I'm the main tech support for my extended family who all used Windows computers. Pretty much every weekend I was cleaning up one computer or another, fixing both hardware and software issues.
I finally got fed up with it and convinced each one to convert over to Mac as their computers died out. Now they all run Macs and I rarely have to do anything. It's pure heaven!
Yes, the Macs do have the occasional issue but they are much easier to use and they rarely break down. Even when they do break down it usually a quick fix and the machine is back in action.
I'm sure that there are plenty of Windows users out there who have very few problems with their machines but for the ordinary person a Windows machine can be very fragile.
In the March quarter, Apple reported 28 percent growth in Mac sales for a total of 3.76 million units. In the Asia Pacific region, Mac sales grew 76 percent year over year.
The company reported a 160% year-on-year jump in Asian Mac sales after selling a record-breaking 3.47 million computers in its third quarter ended June 26.
Yes, well the UK driving test is actually worth something. I had to do a hill start, 3 point turn, right-hand reverse, parallel parking, different speeds of driving, turning out of a blind intersection, roundabouts, emergency stop, and probably more that I don't remember.
In the US, I turned right out of the DMV onto a 30mph road, turned first right, turned first right, turned first right, turned first right, and then turned back into the DMV.
I took a driving test in the US and pretty much had to do the same stuff you mention in your UK test. It all depends on how the state/region designs their test. Don't assume that your anecdotal evidence applies universally.
Personally I've seen roundabouts that are good and ones that are bad, either through design or because of how the local drivers use the roundabout. I think that if they are used carefully and thoughtfully they can solve some traffic problems but they certainly are not a complete replacement for intersections.
Really, if you want this Browser-only mode for the power savings, get an iPad. On a full Mac it's just a gimmick, you're still running all that hardware for nothing.
You do know that modern computers are able to power down sections of hardware that aren't needed, such as CPU cores & functional units, GPUs, busses, drives, etc? A computer running a full OS can easily draw more power than a version tuned to run on less resources.
Yes, the iPad will probably use even less than a full Mac in Safari-only mode but that doesn't mean it's completely useless to try to save power through that mode.
Exactly, this is not just a "no" from me - it's a "hell no!"
I've had way too many problems with PayPal in the past to even think of trusting anything to them anymore. I don't don't care if they are reformed, repented, and remade, I'll have nothing to do with them. Any business which requires PayPal simply does not get my business and it'll never be an option for payment for me.
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Think applying real-time effects to a 1080p video stream (with a preview) and compressing it to H.264 on the fly. On your phone.
A lot of that sort of stuff is also hardware-accelerated where you hand off a stream to the appropriate API and the device will encode/decode using hardware features while using very little CPU.
That is assuming that Apple actually put multithreading into their iphone SDK.
Of course there's threading in iOS. There are examples to be found if you google for them.
Dual core CPUs allow the OS to do one thing in the background and not bog down the device for the running application, but what on earth are you going to do with 4 CPUs when you can only interact with 1 program at a time?
You do know that iPhone apps can do quite a lot in the background, even if only one app can have focus at one time, right? Right now apps are deliberately curtailed to only certain background activities because of the limitations of the amount of cores, adding in more cores and more powerful cores will allow apps to do more in the background.
The limitation of being able to interact with one app at a time is due to UI constraints. Even on a regular computer there isn't much case for multiple programs being visible to the user at one time. For the most part a user isn't able to fully interact with multiple programs at a time, the usual case is to view a document in one app while doing work in another. A better solution to this is to allow programs to share their display engines so that a single program can run and display documents from other programs while only having one program running at a time.
The model of one application running with a few lighter weight processes doing background work makes sense for devices with tight resources and that's the model that iOS is attempting to follow.
Downside of Apple products, especially if you are outside the US, is that if it needs service, you're without your product for many weeks.
In the past I've run a couple of labs with a few dozen Macs.
I don't know outside of the US but my experience in the US is that a repair takes a few days at most. Apple next days a box to you, you pack the computer and it next days back. They take a day or two to repair it and then they next day it to you.
Or you can bring it to a local Apple-authorized service center and they'll usually have it done in a day or so if they have the parts, an extra day if they have to order parts.
I think the longest time I've seen an Apple repair take was 4 or 5 days for some obscure part they had to order.
The only surprising thing here is that they allow access to that circuitry via the normal device ports.
This is not debugging circuitry. This is a normal serial interface that has been known about for a good long time and is even talked about in Apple's documentation. You do need to have a breakout cable to access the serial lines but once you have that it works just like any other serial port does under Darwin.
I made an assumption that there is a market for more open phones and I believe, (maybe incorrectly), that Android based phones are more open than iPhones. I could be wrong, but that would amaze me actually. They are not more open?
They are as open as each individual manufacturer wants them to be - which, in many cases, is pretty damn closed up.
Sure there are ways to open them up, just like you can open up the iPhone, but it's not a simple process on a lot of them.
So you have a 255 byte string. You append one byte to it. What do you do now?
Are you really suggesting that people should have to move all the bytes of the string one further along so they can increase the length field to two bytes, and then append the new character, and that programmers who can't remember to put a 0 at the end of a string can do that without screwing up?
I would think that the more logical way to handle this is to handle the string in chunks. The first byte (8 bits) of the string is the length, if all of the length bits are set then at offset 256 from the length byte you have another length byte and another section of the string. Rinse, repeat.
Yes, for very large strings this isn't as efficient as simply using 16 bits at the front of the string (65536 positions in 2 bytes vs 512 positions in 2 bytes) but for small strings - probably the most common case - it is just about as efficient as a null-terminated string.
Returning something you bought over a month ago is generally not that easy. And with Apple changing its conditions like this, I doubt anyone really knew in advance what was coming.
Considering the fact that Apple said the conditions were changing back in February and 5 months later these app makers are changing their apps, I'd say there was plenty of advance warning.
Besides, you can always sell off the device if you are past the grace period.
Anyways, like I said: caveat emptor, let the buyer beware. If you don't do your research before you buy anything then you're stuck with what you've bought. Apple has been pretty open about the direction they are going in regards to how stuff is billed in their stores, a modicum of research would have informed a person as to what type of device they were buying.
There's one subtle but important difference between the App Store and any other kind of store: When you don't want to sell your stuff through a normal store, you can always look for an alternative, go to the competitor, set up your own store, or whatever.
If you're an informed consumer then you know that's the case when you buy an iDevice. You'll either have to use Apple's stores or jailbreak. If you're fine with that then an iDevice is just the thing for you.
If you're not an informed consumer then caveat emptor. You always have the option of returning the device and buying another brand that better fits how you want to use it.
Suppose that everything you put into your car, from brake fluid to fluffy dice to toys in the back for the kids, had to be bought at an official Ford dealer. Yes, there are other car brands available, but it's still unreasonably restrictive.
That's not a reasonable analogy, even if it is the obligatory car analogy. iDevices have a pretty good web browser that can provide all sorts of content and services and they can also use music, videos, books, and other documents from other stores. I have tons of stuff that I bought from other sources that work just fine on my iPhone so it's not as complete of a lock-in as it's often made out to be.
Every store I visit offers their product at or very near the MSRP. In the instances where it's a different price it's because it's lower due to sale or clearance. I've yet to visit any store that sells goods for above the MSRP, and I'd imaging they wouldn't be in business very long.
MSRP is NOT the actual cost of the item, it's the cost of the item to the retailer plus a certain amount of profit. For quite a lot of stores out there the actual price is 50% that of the MSRP - that's 100% "profit".
Now what's the price of something sold through the Apple stores? The MSRP is the price listed for the item and the original cost is 70% of that. It's that simple, the Apple stores work just like every other store out there: items in them have a markup to cover distribution, hardware, software development, labor costs, and - hopefully - a profit!
Nothing evil here, it's business as it's been operating for millions (at least!) of companies for thousands of years...
Apple makes about 30% profit on their devices. They make 30% profit on apps sold through the app store.
And a brick-and-mortar store often makes anywhere from 50% to 200% profit on stuff sold through their store. Amazon makes money on stuff sold through its store. Google makes money on stuff sold through their outlets.
Every store has its rules and as long as the rules are spelled out and applied evenly then the only question becomes: "Do I want to buy or sell stuff through that store?"
If Apple asks for too much then rest assured they will have people dropping support for the store. If they are asking for the right amount then people will come to the store. There's nothing evil in this, it's pure business. Right now Apple has a lot of people interested in buying stuff through their stores so they can make it a condition to sellers that Apple gets a cut.
And don't think that the 30% is pure profit to Apple. There are development costs for the software running the stores, there are administrative costs, hardware costs, bandwidth costs, etc. In fact, the last time I saw numbers on the stores they weren't turning much of a profit at all, they were meeting costs and making a little bit extra.
As evidenced by the number of people willing to sell through the Apple stores there are a lot of people who think that a 30% cut is a fair price to pay for the benefits of selling through the stores. That should speak for itself.
And the cells cost me nothing - the government paid the $8k for cells and installation
No, you paid for those too...
For one thing, Boot Camp increases the price of a Mac by $200, the price of a copy of retail Windows, making Apple products look even more overpriced.
For these few users they were fine with that. For the people who only browse the web and such they never needed to pay the extra.
I'm sure that it might deter some people from getting a Mac but I think that most people will just use the copy of Windows XP or Vista that they had from their previous computer and will be happy enough with that. After all, they are probably going to be in Mac OS X most of the time anyways.
Really, cos when I asked a question about it on the forums, it was deleted.
The forums aren't for suggestions or product feedback, they are for help with bugs and such. If you want to submit a suggestion you have to go to the right place:
General Mac OS X feedback
Other product feedback pages.
I've had some of my ideas incorporated into Apple products. I probably wasn't the only person who suggested them but the point is that Apple does improve their products based on customer feedback.
By the way, from what I hear this feature is already incorporated into Mac OS X 10.7.
Until you find them trying and failing to use Wine for Mac OS X to run an application designed for Windows that has no close substitute designed for Mac OS X.
Which is why I have them run Bootcamp. They rarely need to do it but there is one or two of them that occasionally boot into Windows for a game or some specialized software that have no Mac equivalent.
However, those tend to be the more tech-savvy ones in the first place. Everyone else does mostly web, e-mail, and some light spreadsheets or text editing. For those people there is pretty much zero need to run Windows.
And as black isn't one of the predetermined colors given to you by Apple... it's not an arbitrary roadblock, it's a roadblock I've actually had to deal with many many times. So many times that I generally have a 32x32 black png file on my memory stick just in case a mac user needs a black background.
Cute little trick:
1. Open terminal
2. sips -c 1 1 ~/Library/Desktop\ Pictures/Solid\ Colors/Solid\ Gray\ Dark.png --out ~/Desktop/small.png
3. Right-click on desktop, choose "Change Desktop Background..."
4. Drag small.png to the "well" above the list of images.
5. Choose "Center" from the drop-down to the right of that
6. Click on the color button to the right of that and pick a color.
The sips command crops an image to 1x1, in this case I used the darkest solid color Apple has, and creates a new file with that one pixel. You can then put that single pixel on the screen and color the background to whatever you want. You'll have a single pixel of the original image in the middle of the screen but it's good for a pinch in your presentation scenario.
Yeah, this is not for a non-tech user but it's good for the times you don't have that black png handy.
Do I think that it's an oversight for Apple to not make this an easier task? Sure but it's not holding me back from using the platform. It's a fairly minor issue. Bug Apple about it, they actually do listen!
Now, do that on a machine without an internet connection.
Now you're just coming up with arbitrary roadblocks. This is the year 2011, nearly every computer is connected to the internet at some time or another. Yes, this trick doesn't work in every single case but it's good enough for the vast majority.
The original argument was:
No one can argue that Macs have a beautiful interface but it simply is not OK for a person or computer company to dictate that it can't be changed...
This has been proven to be false. Yeah, it might not be as customizable as some people would like but it CAN be changed.
Last time I used OSX, it wasn't like you could pick an arbitrary background color. You had to do what the article describes. Now, if that's changed, then I am misinformed.
1. Run Safari
2. Google Image solid color blue
3. Right-click on an image and choose "Use Image as Desktop Picture"
It's a little obscure but simple. I think most people will use images off the web for desktop backgrounds anyways so this might be more intuitive for the masses than for tech people.
I know its purely anecdotal but I have Apple computers that are PowerPCs and they are still running well without problems. I have several first generation Intel models and I haven't had a problem. During that same period, I've had 1 dead Sony laptop, 3 dead Dell Desktops, and 2 operational but basically worthless Dell laptops due to their cases breaking at key mechanical points (eg hinges, latches, keyboard).
I'm the main tech support for my extended family who all used Windows computers. Pretty much every weekend I was cleaning up one computer or another, fixing both hardware and software issues.
I finally got fed up with it and convinced each one to convert over to Mac as their computers died out. Now they all run Macs and I rarely have to do anything. It's pure heaven!
Yes, the Macs do have the occasional issue but they are much easier to use and they rarely break down. Even when they do break down it usually a quick fix and the machine is back in action.
I'm sure that there are plenty of Windows users out there who have very few problems with their machines but for the ordinary person a Windows machine can be very fragile.
It would be interesting to see how Apple stacks up in Asia, where the PC market is still growing at 12% per year..
They are selling like hotcakes:
Overseas growth driving Mac sales as US consumers hold out for new models
In the March quarter, Apple reported 28 percent growth in Mac sales for a total of 3.76 million units. In the Asia Pacific region, Mac sales grew 76 percent year over year.
Asia becomes fastest-growing Mac market
The company reported a 160% year-on-year jump in Asian Mac sales after selling a record-breaking 3.47 million computers in its third quarter ended June 26.
Yes, well the UK driving test is actually worth something. I had to do a hill start, 3 point turn, right-hand reverse, parallel parking, different speeds of driving, turning out of a blind intersection, roundabouts, emergency stop, and probably more that I don't remember.
In the US, I turned right out of the DMV onto a 30mph road, turned first right, turned first right, turned first right, turned first right, and then turned back into the DMV.
I took a driving test in the US and pretty much had to do the same stuff you mention in your UK test. It all depends on how the state/region designs their test. Don't assume that your anecdotal evidence applies universally.
Personally I've seen roundabouts that are good and ones that are bad, either through design or because of how the local drivers use the roundabout. I think that if they are used carefully and thoughtfully they can solve some traffic problems but they certainly are not a complete replacement for intersections.
But with areas with higher populations usually end up having two many selfish idiots ignoring such rules.
Well if there's only two of them then it can't be that bad!
Really, if you want this Browser-only mode for the power savings, get an iPad. On a full Mac it's just a gimmick, you're still running all that hardware for nothing.
You do know that modern computers are able to power down sections of hardware that aren't needed, such as CPU cores & functional units, GPUs, busses, drives, etc? A computer running a full OS can easily draw more power than a version tuned to run on less resources.
Yes, the iPad will probably use even less than a full Mac in Safari-only mode but that doesn't mean it's completely useless to try to save power through that mode.
Because they're a bunch of scummy thieves.
Exactly, this is not just a "no" from me - it's a "hell no!"
I've had way too many problems with PayPal in the past to even think of trusting anything to them anymore. I don't don't care if they are reformed, repented, and remade, I'll have nothing to do with them. Any business which requires PayPal simply does not get my business and it'll never be an option for payment for me.
AFAIK it only works with fingers.
oblig lmgtfy:
clicky