Does anyone actually think that an x86 port of OS X would run faster on a 2.5GHz P4 than it does on a 1GHz PPC? No fucking way. They'd cripple it even if they could get it to run as fast as on PPC hardware, just to give you a taste of the good life...the first one's always free.
Yes.
Anyway, apple will probably build proprietary hardware around an x86 core, rather then just use commodity PC parts. There's no real reason to use PowerPC these days over x86 with all the advancement in emulation and Just in time compilation these days. Some company (HP I think) Actually created a MIPS emulator that ran MIPS code faster then natively, even on the same chip.
Intel chips do have something similar to AltiVec, although I don't know how comparable they are. I'd be willing to bet a 2ghz P4 could probably womp a 800mhz G4 at vector math anyway, these days, so it's really a non-issue.
Well, its not like they are going to have no clock, obviously they'll have some crystals in there to keep other things synchronized. And lots of thing, especially interactive stuff needs accurate timekeeping (not to mention most of the chips in the overall system will need a clock)
Who didn't see this one comming? What choice do they have with things like the TiVo and replay TV becomming more popular, the 30 second spot will become more and more worthless.
When you see pictures of "the great wall" you are seeing the Long City built by the Ming Dynasty. An origional wall was built long in the past of tamped earth, but it, for the most part, no longer stands.
oh, that's not a subjective statement or anything. Why would something 'better engineered' be cheaper and slower?
But those who make these claims always compare a Yugo to a Toyota and claim that they are the same and that the toyota is priced like a Mercedes. They aren't.
Thanks for calling me an idiot. Do you have any real statistics on this or are you just making shit up? Like, the actual rate of failure for Gateways, apple, and other companies?
Aside from a power supply and hard drive, Computers are pretty much either they work or they don't. It's not like a Car where things can ware down if not well made.
Anyway, as I said before, show me some real statistics or STFU
I remember upgrading my mobo the year before last from a 'super'-7 board to an Abit KT7-raid (for athlon chips). Before the swap, win98 would crash every day. After the swap, without reinstalling everything, windows stayed up for a week. I was pretty impressed.
Win2k has BSOD'd on me I think two or 3 times in about a year and a half.
My Home built PC gives me lots of trouble. On the other hand, my Sony Vaio laptop has only crashed about twice in the 8 months I've owned it. Companies like Gateway, Sony, and Dell actually do integration testing before selling their products.
Simply assuming a PC is going to cause more problems is moronic. It's also beside the point.
Most of you don't know anything about what you're talking about. the p4 IS A RISC CHIP.
Except that the CISC instructions take ten times as many clock cycles to execute.
This isn't true either. Diffrent CISC instructions take different amounts of time. It hasn't taken 17 cycles to run any common CISC instruction since the 286 (I don't know about things like changing into real mode, switching between MMX and FP mode, and that kind of thing, but those kinds of instructions will only be run once or twice per second, if ever). Additionally the p4 and Athlon CPU are pipelined and can run more then one instruction at once.
Every x86 chip since the AMD k6 and Pentium pro has been RISC. 386 CISC instructions are translated into RISC before being executed. And yes, most people do know this. Not you, apparently.
Ok, for one, that 800 mhz would blow the pants off that 2 Ghz any day of the week. You obviously A) do not know your RISC vs CISC,
No, YOU obviously don't know the diffrence between RISC and CISC. The orgional idea was to run simpler commands at a higher clock rate, rather then complicated command at a lower clock rate. But the P4 runs more complicated instructions at twice the rate. Aditionaly, the instructions get converted into RISC before being run inside the CPU.
We are talking about purchace cost,not manufacture
on
Mac Users May Be Smarter
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· Score: 1, Flamebait
Look, the argument isn't wether or not Macs cost more to build it's about wether or not they cost more to buy. Apple makes a huge profit off each unit.
For example: Thirdly, processor. Apple pays FAR LESS for their processors than any PC Vendor for a comperable processor.
Right, that's because they are cheap and shitty.
Dispite all your hand waving, when you get right down to it, a Gateway 2ghz PC with a CDRW and all that AND a 19 inch monitor costs just $999. A 800mhz (that's 2.5 times as slow of a clock speed) Mac with no monitor costs $1500. What diffrence does it make how much apple paid for their USB ports or the hard drive? $999 is less money then $1500.
#2 Communism means a lot of things. In the case of China their brand is "Maoist",
After Mao died, the government threw his wife in Jail. Since then, they have been much more economicaly liberal (as in, pro fre market) and can no longer be called a communist country at all.
Have any of the Mac users ever read the Linux advocacy howto? It basically says to promote Linux without calling other people morons. Apple users haven't really seemed to grasped that.
Calling someone an idiot is not a good way to win them over. Not only does Apples advertising not discourage this kind of thinking, it actively encourages it. Its always like "Apple is just sooo much better then PCs" They would even say things that I knew were false just from experience, which is pretty insulting to someone's intelligence.
As per pudge's comments about "undereducated users buying premium dells", well, everything is on a bell curve. I'm sure there are some people out there who are lacking in collage degrees but not high-end PCs, but that doesn't mean it's a trend. Perhaps they had rich parents, or (ghasp) were smart anyway and made money that way? Some uneducated people have nice computers and some super-educated people might have no computer at all. Pudge's comments, about people with bigger brains liking better computers (macs) might make himself and other mac-zelots feel better, but its exactly the kind of derogatory mental masturbation that will keep me away from Apple for the rest of my life.
Go to almost any college or university, and 90% of the professors will be using Macs. Why? Because they may be geniuses of their own subspecialty of a specific area of a particular division of their field, but otherwise they are mostly morons with all the computer sense of pocket lint.
Go to any internet site, and 90% of the statistics spouted are idiotic fantasies based on nothing.
Well, I go to a major university, and the only place I've seen macs is in the General Purpose computer labs (open to everyone, in the computer sciance building) and in the design center. Other then that its W32 and UNIX. Lots of Unix in the math department, I was kind of suprised.
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Does anyone actually think that an x86 port of OS X would run faster on a 2.5GHz P4 than it does on a 1GHz PPC? No fucking way. They'd cripple it even if they could get it to run as fast as on PPC hardware, just to give you a taste of the good life...the first one's always free.
Yes.
Anyway, apple will probably build proprietary hardware around an x86 core, rather then just use commodity PC parts. There's no real reason to use PowerPC these days over x86 with all the advancement in emulation and Just in time compilation these days. Some company (HP I think) Actually created a MIPS emulator that ran MIPS code faster then natively, even on the same chip.
Intel chips do have something similar to AltiVec, although I don't know how comparable they are. I'd be willing to bet a 2ghz P4 could probably womp a 800mhz G4 at vector math anyway, these days, so it's really a non-issue.
Are you saying PA-RISC and PowerPC are code compatable? I find that hard to belive. Itanium can run x86, PA-RISC and Epic code directly. Nothing else.
Why would intel and apple design a new, even more complex chip, when they could just a java style JIT for PowerPC code?
Unless something has changed, Itanium is a lot slower then current x86 chips out there.
Well, its not like they are going to have no clock, obviously they'll have some crystals in there to keep other things synchronized. And lots of thing, especially interactive stuff needs accurate timekeeping (not to mention most of the chips in the overall system will need a clock)
I tried to read that artical, but the flashing "you've won" advertizement was making my eyes bleed.
Who didn't see this one comming? What choice do they have with things like the TiVo and replay TV becomming more popular, the 30 second spot will become more and more worthless.
Ever heard of a lookup table?
When you see pictures of "the great wall" you are seeing the Long City built by the Ming Dynasty. An origional wall was built long in the past of tamped earth, but it, for the most part, no longer stands.
The US is the 3rd largest nation on earth.
No, because they're better engineerd, dipshit.
oh, that's not a subjective statement or anything. Why would something 'better engineered' be cheaper and slower?
But those who make these claims always compare a Yugo to a Toyota and claim that they are the same and that the toyota is priced like a Mercedes. They aren't.
Thanks for calling me an idiot. Do you have any real statistics on this or are you just making shit up? Like, the actual rate of failure for Gateways, apple, and other companies?
Aside from a power supply and hard drive, Computers are pretty much either they work or they don't. It's not like a Car where things can ware down if not well made.
Anyway, as I said before, show me some real statistics or STFU
I remember upgrading my mobo the year before last from a 'super'-7 board to an Abit KT7-raid (for athlon chips). Before the swap, win98 would crash every day. After the swap, without reinstalling everything, windows stayed up for a week. I was pretty impressed.
Win2k has BSOD'd on me I think two or 3 times in about a year and a half.
My Home built PC gives me lots of trouble. On the other hand, my Sony Vaio laptop has only crashed about twice in the 8 months I've owned it. Companies like Gateway, Sony, and Dell actually do integration testing before selling their products.
Simply assuming a PC is going to cause more problems is moronic. It's also beside the point.
Most of you don't know anything about what you're talking about. the p4 IS A RISC CHIP.
Except that the CISC instructions take ten times as many clock cycles to execute.
This isn't true either. Diffrent CISC instructions take different amounts of time. It hasn't taken 17 cycles to run any common CISC instruction since the 286 (I don't know about things like changing into real mode, switching between MMX and FP mode, and that kind of thing, but those kinds of instructions will only be run once or twice per second, if ever). Additionally the p4 and Athlon CPU are pipelined and can run more then one instruction at once.
Every x86 chip since the AMD k6 and Pentium pro has been RISC. 386 CISC instructions are translated into RISC before being executed. And yes, most people do know this. Not you, apparently.
Ok, for one, that 800 mhz would blow the pants off that 2 Ghz any day of the week. You obviously A) do not know your RISC vs CISC,
No, YOU obviously don't know the diffrence between RISC and CISC. The orgional idea was to run simpler commands at a higher clock rate, rather then complicated command at a lower clock rate. But the P4 runs more complicated instructions at twice the rate. Aditionaly, the instructions get converted into RISC before being run inside the CPU.
Look, the argument isn't wether or not Macs cost more to build it's about wether or not they cost more to buy. Apple makes a huge profit off each unit. For example:
Thirdly, processor. Apple pays FAR LESS for their processors than any PC Vendor for a comperable processor.
Right, that's because they are cheap and shitty.
Dispite all your hand waving, when you get right down to it, a Gateway 2ghz PC with a CDRW and all that AND a 19 inch monitor costs just $999. A 800mhz (that's 2.5 times as slow of a clock speed) Mac with no monitor costs $1500. What diffrence does it make how much apple paid for their USB ports or the hard drive? $999 is less money then $1500.
Excuse me? Have you ever been to China?
Have you? Most of the people who have been to china say it's not that bad.
#2 Communism means a lot of things. In the case of China their brand is "Maoist",
After Mao died, the government threw his wife in Jail. Since then, they have been much more economicaly liberal (as in, pro fre market) and can no longer be called a communist country at all.
Yeh, the ming dynasty (not the emperor, i forget who it was who started it) cut itself off from the world. Built the great wall, etc.
Before the ming, China was way ahead of Europe and the middle east in trading and stuff. By the end of the Ming Dynasty they were behind.
But most people stick with the defaults most of the time
It dosn't tell us for sure that it was designed on a mac or a PC, but just a little evidence for the mac side.
Have any of the Mac users ever read the Linux advocacy howto? It basically says to promote Linux without calling other people morons. Apple users haven't really seemed to grasped that.
Calling someone an idiot is not a good way to win them over. Not only does Apples advertising not discourage this kind of thinking, it actively encourages it. Its always like "Apple is just sooo much better then PCs" They would even say things that I knew were false just from experience, which is pretty insulting to someone's intelligence.
As per pudge's comments about "undereducated users buying premium dells", well, everything is on a bell curve. I'm sure there are some people out there who are lacking in collage degrees but not high-end PCs, but that doesn't mean it's a trend. Perhaps they had rich parents, or (ghasp) were smart anyway and made money that way? Some uneducated people have nice computers and some super-educated people might have no computer at all. Pudge's comments, about people with bigger brains liking better computers (macs) might make himself and other mac-zelots feel better, but its exactly the kind of derogatory mental masturbation that will keep me away from Apple for the rest of my life.
Go to almost any college or university, and 90% of the professors will be using Macs. Why? Because they may be geniuses of their own subspecialty of a specific area of a particular division of their field, but otherwise they are mostly morons with all the computer sense of pocket lint.
Go to any internet site, and 90% of the statistics spouted are idiotic fantasies based on nothing.
<font size="6" face="Algerian">JENNY'S HOMEPAGE<br>
Algerian is a mac font.
Well, I go to a major university, and the only place I've seen macs is in the General Purpose computer labs (open to everyone, in the computer sciance building) and in the design center. Other then that its W32 and UNIX. Lots of Unix in the math department, I was kind of suprised.