This makes me curious. What does it cost to rent out the local cops to provide entertainment for your party? Do they let you play with the siren? Can the motorcade break the speed limit? How about the local ambulance corps, can they juggle plasma bags? Can I get a guarantee that they won't get called away to deal with some boring disturbance on the wrong side of the tracks before the song and dance number is complete? Do they bring their own hookers, or is prostituting themselves enough?
It is plausible that Plato broached the subject more than once. Proof that he said one thing is not proof that he did not say another (mildly) contradictory thing.
But it's been way too long since I read the Republic to bang my shoe on the table and claim I know the man's mind.
shit man, lesson on how to start a thread explosion on slashdot: mention that the $HOME_TEAM system of measure might not be the be-all and end-all.
> As for a system being "natural", I would say that it's entirely down to > your personal experience.
> I know that a pint of beer is a refreshing drink, but have to think of > Coke in litres. For somebody else every one of these answers may be > different. A German might not know a pint of beer if you poured it > over his head!
1 beer: a good example of a "natural" unit - one serving of beer. Too small, it's not enough to please and you need another too soon. Too big, it's overly warmed by the time you get to the bottom and it's too heavy to lift. After centuries of applied research & averaging the english speaking world decided to call that 1 unit of beer a "pint". In other languages it's called something else but the volume is about the same. In some countries they are a bit more thirsty than others and so the definition of a pint differs slightly from say the US to the UK. A lot more useful to call it 1 drink/1 pint/1 whatever the germans call it than to ask the bartender to draw about 568mL from the tap.
As for temperature, in F 0 is the coldest that you'll ever find in a mid latitude country. 100 is about the hottest. There's nothing to learn there besides experiencing the 4 seasons a few times - it's a natural scale for the bulk of humans to use. [I believe it was based on his travels through France with a reversing mercury thermometer that he'd just made. etched a tick in the glass tube on the bitterest cold in the north, and another in the most sweltering heat he could find in the south in summer.]
As for PCB drill hole sizes, what can I say. #68 doesn't mean much without experience. But I'm talking about everyday living experiences of the general population, not specialist fields.
It's all simple and intuitive when it's the system you've been taught and used since childhood. Trust me, for someone who's been using metric for all his life, meters and kilograms and degrees Celsius are perfectly easy to use and intuitive, while your pounds, feet, and Fahrenheit are totally weird and incomprehensible.... All the claims about Imperial being more "natural" or easier to use are pure bullshit.
You completely miss my point, and the connotation of the words "intuitive" and "natural". They do not mean "familiar after experience".
Having grown up in a metricized country you really have an intuitive grasp of what a Newton-meter is? You can feel it? Either you must be a professional mechanic or you need a torque wrench.
Let me rephrase it. Can you "feel" what 20 kg weighs like? Most people can. Would you feel comfortable to apply approximately 20 kg of force at the end of a socket wrench? Most people would, it's intuitive and you have experience in how much force* that is. That's how easy a foot-pound is. It's a pound of force at the end of a foot long tool. Now, could you - off the street with no training - trust yourself to apply 60 Newton-meters of force on a socket wrench? No idea how much that is? Exactly my point.
* and regarding force, don't even start with the mass vs weight arguments- we are all on Earth here; you know what my meaning is.
As for "how hot is it today?", surely a scale based roughly on 0-100% of full scale is more natural to the answer than one based on the boiling point of a common liquid. For a question of the melting temperature of steel, of course deg C or K would be just as good to use. But I'm speaking about practicality for everyday use in everyday life.
One great thing the metric system has given us is a single standard. But now that the US is the only big player left, the US system of measures are a single standard as well, so that argument is bust. But yes, conversions between different units is a pain. Fortunately most are easily factorable in your head (12 splits easily by 2,3,4,6) and so short skips are no as bad as you expect. Big skips like converting inches to miles is not an everyday task so not relevant to my point.
For the record I have spent many years living and working (as an engineer up to my eyeballs in such matters) in both the US and now in a metric country. I am fully "bilingual" and give my opinions based on a good working knowledge of both.
here's another kicker - in some US states (but not others) the US Survey foot is used, and by extension the US Survey Acre may surface from time to time.
because it's a laughably stupid idea widely thrown out on Fox News etc in the past and widely and completely debunked by any economist you can find as laughably stupid.
what does damage to the roads is vehicle weight. charging designed-to-be light subcompacts and big trucks the same cost per mile is simply a subsidy for the big trucks (industry and small-dick-syndrome type) at the expense of the small car (avg. joes).
ask: what is that tax instituted for? if the answer is road maintainace, the above applies.
You think that dramatically increasing the surface area (and thus evaporation rate) of a major river that barely sustains millions in a water-parched region and no longer reaches the ocean through most of the year is environmentally benign?
I'm not opposed to all hydro, but Glen Canyon was a mistake. The value of the water being lost there may soon equal the value of the power the dam is generating these days if things keep on going the way they're going.
For what it's worth, a rambling river can easily have more surface area exposed for vaporization than the still surface of a lake of the same volume.
You must balance the damage the dam does versus what damage a probable alternative would do (false dichotomies not withstanding). Sure, dams do a lot of damage, but the alternatives are usually much much worse.
(as it happens I've got a book by Ed Abbey sitting right next to me as I type this..)
another example: when working with a (foot long) wrench or spanner, with the Foot-pound you can simply & intuitively feel how much force to apply. With the Newton-Meter you need a special gauge to know.
the entire globe managed to switch to the metric system, including the U.K. Oh wait, not the entire world... the U.S. is a hold-out... is the U.S. the *last* hold-out? (I dunno)
Now that the Philippines has switched, I think it is just Liberia and Burma left. And England still uses miles sometime, where appropriate.
For the record, Celsius sucks for the "how warm is it today?" question (the scale based on 0-100% is better), Meters suck for "how big is this object I hold?" question, and using a drill size 1/64th bigger than the O.D. of the bolt to make the hole just the right size is an inelegant hack in metric sizing.
None the less, the inefficiency the US carries around with it must have some huge long term detriment to the economy, and it's completely wrong on so many levels that NASA refuses to convert to metric.
for the purposes of the GPL, a combined work is as good as a derivative work.
quoth GPLv2 term 2:
These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works. But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it.
Thus, it is not the intent of this section to claim rights or contest your rights to work written entirely by you; rather, the intent is to exercise the right to control the distribution of derivative or collective works based on the Program.
In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under the scope of this License.
My take is that Linus is being a pragmatic fellow and choosing his battles here, even if deep down he suspects that nVidia is violating the letter of the license. These tricks to circumvent it are surely violating the spirit of it.
An honest day's work for an honest day's wages. If they want you to work a 90 hour week they have to pay you for that, or that should have been made clear in the interview and contract. If you let yourself be bullied or taken advantage of, don't be surprised when you are.
> Google has never been a supporter of Free Software.
This year's Google Summer of Code is providing approx $5M in scholarships for students to work on Free Software projects. No strings attached other than an oversight framework to make sure the system is not abused.
studies have shown that the Cuisinart effect is 90% an urban (rural?) myth and without merit.
* modern (post 1970s) turbines are geared and spin slower than the original small diameter california desert style (which was put directly in a pass used as a major migration route..... what do you expect?). Corollary: the noise factor from fast spinning turbines went out with disco as well. I've stood directly under a 300' one spinning in a moderate 25mph wind. Whoosh, whoosh. Highly tolerable standing at its base. Imperceptible some 1/4 of a mile away.
* just as many birds are killed flying into static towers and bridges, and many more are killed by cars while pecking at carrion on the highway.
There was a good article rounding up the peer reviewed studies on this in Home Power magazine some time ago, the PDF of that used to be online at their website. Maybe you can track it down.
Actually: right Piccard! He is the grandson of Auguste Piccard the famous balloonist who the Star Trek character was named for. And his father Jacques was one of the two submariners to (ever) visit the deepest part of the ocean.
They are playing the role of the glazier in The Broken Window Fallacy. In this way they are economic leeches which cause a net harm to both the economy and society.
Since they are shipping source code with their plugin, and the complainant themselves states that the files are unchanged, they again, are compliant.
No, if that were the case then there would be no need for the LGPL. If the combined work would reasonably be considered (from the user's perspective) to be a single product then the entire work must be GPL'd.
The bundled code (OS-level) exemption reads as follows (Term 2):
In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under the scope of this License.
That's a very long way away from the library/main.c relationship.
All we have so far is a developer complaining that their code was used without attribution.
to quote the code's author in TFA: http://forums.informaction.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1654&p=6396#p6396 I said "illegally" because FlashGot is open sourced under the GPL license, and this means that anybody incorporating code from FlashGot (which is otherwise freely reusable) must release their code/modifications under the GPL as well, which they're not doing.
Sounds to me like he's complaining about a license violation, I don't hear anything about wanting to see his name in big bright letters.
It requires Several things, but advertising where you got the code is not one of them.
(irrelevant...)
It requires that you advertise to the end user that they are using GPL code, and what that means for them.
The act of creating a running image of a software program is considered copying
The idea that "copying" a program into memory in order to run it is an act of redistribution for the purposes of copyright law* is so completely absurd and asinine that we debase ourselves to do anything but openly mock the purveyors of such drivel. I don't really care who's saying it./Especially/ if they have an army of lawyers this will be your best (if only) long term defense.
[*] (even ignoring any Fair Use, Natural Purpose, or alfresco-user arguments for now)
wrt the kernel: Users of GPL code are free to use non-GPL drivers with a GPL OS (or do whatever the hell they want with it as long as they don't redistribute anything), but the key is that they have to add it in on their own, the kernel devs and distros can't ship with it linked.
GPL requires that you ship code with the delivery,
No it doesn't. It requires that you ship the offer of code with the binary.
Please actually read the thing before making ADAMANT BUT COMPLETELY WRONG CLAIMS IN ALL CAPS. That goes for moderators too, at least those sucked in by posters relying on authoritative sounding claims.
and that the package is licensed under a GPL acceptable license.
No, that it is licensed under the GPL license. (or if >=, then >=)
That's _it_.
Section 2a. of the GPL2 is 4 lines long. The entire license file is 339 lines long. i.e. that's not just _it_ at all.
It does not require you to perform any advertising,
Sure it does. You must both advertise to the downstream user their rights under the license, and in some circumstances the No Warranty text should be shown. This is Term 1, it's not exactly buried in the text.
nor acknowledge where the code came from.
The original copyright statements must remain intact. (Term 1.)
You want attribution? Use the old BSD license, or the new Apache one, not the GPL.
An interesting commentary on the goals of the licenses and motivations of authors can be taken from this.
I would say that plugin address spaces aren't kept separate (thus avoiding the issue entirely) is a Firefox _bug_ (or perhaps it's designed that way on purpose),
maybe that is a Firefox bug.
rather than any GPL violation.
WTF are you talking about?? Please explain why it can not be both these unrelated things?
So far, nothing in the summary (nor any of the articles) points out the GPL violation.
Once again, WTF are you talking about?? Except the part in the summary which says they incorporated the code of a GPL project without licensing their plugin as GPL nor letting their users know their rights under that license.
Technically a customer has to request the code and be denied it, but probably the failure to advertise that the code is available to end users under the terms of the GPL is enough to get them legally in the poop and get slapped with an injunction.
Additionally, if you're saying that plugins that are GPL'ed can't coexist with plugins that aren't GPL'ed, that's an interesting statement.
Where does this strawman come from? The problem here is not that 2 plugins of differing license sit side by side, it is that GPL code is being mixed with non-GPL code into a non-GPL product and redistributed as non-GPL. The fact that it is a for-profit company doing this doesn't change much beyond kill any innocent-mistake excuses.
If that were true, I would hope that the GPL is _banned_ as an acceptable plugin license in order to prevent all Firefox users from being copyright violators.
All Firefox users are absolutely fine to use a mix of GPL and non GPL plugins at run time. What they can't do is redistribute the things together as a single monolithic program to others without relicensing the entire package as GPL. The GPL has to do with redistribution, not use. (ie the "copy" in "copyright")
Slashdot Mirror
The old adage applies: if someone claims they can predict the future, chances are they are trying to sell you something.
This makes me curious. What does it cost to rent out the local cops to provide entertainment for your party? Do they let you play with the siren? Can the motorcade break the speed limit? How about the local ambulance corps, can they juggle plasma bags? Can I get a guarantee that they won't get called away to deal with some boring disturbance on the wrong side of the tracks before the song and dance number is complete? Do they bring their own hookers, or is prostituting themselves enough?
How is this legal? (oh, now I get it)
It is plausible that Plato broached the subject more than once. Proof that he said one thing is not proof that he did not say another (mildly) contradictory thing.
But it's been way too long since I read the Republic to bang my shoe on the table and claim I know the man's mind.
http://janetishungry.blogspot.com/2007/06/filet-mignon-with-rosemary-and-port.html
mmmmm, yummy.
huh?
# apt-get install spacewar
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package spacewar
how has this not made it into Debian?
shit man, lesson on how to start a thread explosion on slashdot: mention that the $HOME_TEAM system of measure might not be the be-all and end-all.
> As for a system being "natural", I would say that it's entirely down to
> your personal experience.
> I know that a pint of beer is a refreshing drink, but have to think of
> Coke in litres. For somebody else every one of these answers may be
> different. A German might not know a pint of beer if you poured it
> over his head!
1 beer: a good example of a "natural" unit - one serving of beer. Too small, it's not enough to please and you need another too soon. Too big, it's overly warmed by the time you get to the bottom and it's too heavy to lift. After centuries of applied research & averaging the english speaking world decided to call that 1 unit of beer a "pint". In other languages it's called something else but the volume is about the same. In some countries they are a bit more thirsty than others and so the definition of a pint differs slightly from say the US to the UK. A lot more useful to call it 1 drink/1 pint/1 whatever the germans call it than to ask the bartender to draw about 568mL from the tap.
As for temperature, in F 0 is the coldest that you'll ever find in a mid latitude country. 100 is about the hottest. There's nothing to learn there besides experiencing the 4 seasons a few times - it's a natural scale for the bulk of humans to use. [I believe it was based on his travels through France with a reversing mercury thermometer that he'd just made. etched a tick in the glass tube on the bitterest cold in the north, and another in the most sweltering heat he could find in the south in summer.]
As for PCB drill hole sizes, what can I say. #68 doesn't mean much without experience. But I'm talking about everyday living experiences of the general population, not specialist fields.
You completely miss my point, and the connotation of the words "intuitive" and "natural". They do not mean "familiar after experience".
Having grown up in a metricized country you really have an intuitive grasp of what a Newton-meter is? You can feel it? Either you must be a professional mechanic or you need a torque wrench.
Let me rephrase it. Can you "feel" what 20 kg weighs like? Most people can. Would you feel comfortable to apply approximately 20 kg of force at the end of a socket wrench? Most people would, it's intuitive and you have experience in how much force* that is. That's how easy a foot-pound is. It's a pound of force at the end of a foot long tool. Now, could you - off the street with no training - trust yourself to apply 60 Newton-meters of force on a socket wrench? No idea how much that is? Exactly my point.
* and regarding force, don't even start with the mass vs weight arguments- we are all on Earth here; you know what my meaning is.
As for "how hot is it today?", surely a scale based roughly on 0-100% of full scale is more natural to the answer than one based on the boiling point of a common liquid. For a question of the melting temperature of steel, of course deg C or K would be just as good to use. But I'm speaking about practicality for everyday use in everyday life.
One great thing the metric system has given us is a single standard. But now that the US is the only big player left, the US system of measures are a single standard as well, so that argument is bust. But yes, conversions between different units is a pain. Fortunately most are easily factorable in your head (12 splits easily by 2,3,4,6) and so short skips are no as bad as you expect. Big skips like converting inches to miles is not an everyday task so not relevant to my point.
For the record I have spent many years living and working (as an engineer up to my eyeballs in such matters) in both the US and now in a metric country. I am fully "bilingual" and give my opinions based on a good working knowledge of both.
> No, it's 43560 square feet in an acre,
here's another kicker - in some US states (but not others) the US Survey foot is used, and by extension the US Survey Acre may surface from time to time.
> Not sure why this is modded funny...
because it's a laughably stupid idea widely thrown out on Fox News etc in the past and widely and completely debunked by any economist you can find as laughably stupid.
what does damage to the roads is vehicle weight. charging designed-to-be light subcompacts and big trucks the same cost per mile is simply a subsidy for the big trucks (industry and small-dick-syndrome type) at the expense of the small car (avg. joes).
ask: what is that tax instituted for? if the answer is road maintainace, the above applies.
granted the river will be at the bottom of a cool dark canyon instead of in the full sunlight on top. there is never a simple answer.
For what it's worth, a rambling river can easily have more surface area exposed for vaporization than the still surface of a lake of the same volume.
You must balance the damage the dam does versus what damage a probable alternative would do (false dichotomies not withstanding). Sure, dams do a lot of damage, but the alternatives are usually much much worse.
(as it happens I've got a book by Ed Abbey sitting right next to me as I type this..)
another example: when working with a (foot long) wrench or spanner, with the Foot-pound you can simply & intuitively feel how much force to apply. With the Newton-Meter you need a special gauge to know.
Now that the Philippines has switched, I think it is just Liberia and Burma left. And England still uses miles sometime, where appropriate.
For the record, Celsius sucks for the "how warm is it today?" question (the scale based on 0-100% is better), Meters suck for "how big is this object I hold?" question, and using a drill size 1/64th bigger than the O.D. of the bolt to make the hole just the right size is an inelegant hack in metric sizing.
None the less, the inefficiency the US carries around with it must have some huge long term detriment to the economy, and it's completely wrong on so many levels that NASA refuses to convert to metric.
for the purposes of the GPL, a combined work is as good as a derivative work.
quoth GPLv2 term 2:
My take is that Linus is being a pragmatic fellow and choosing his battles here, even if deep down he suspects that nVidia is violating the letter of the license. These tricks to circumvent it are surely violating the spirit of it.
An honest day's work for an honest day's wages. If they want you to work a 90 hour week they have to pay you for that, or that should have been made clear in the interview and contract. If you let yourself be bullied or taken advantage of, don't be surprised when you are.
The union makes us strong.
> Google has never been a supporter of Free Software.
This year's Google Summer of Code is providing approx $5M in scholarships for students to work on Free Software projects. No strings attached other than an oversight framework to make sure the system is not abused.
studies have shown that the Cuisinart effect is 90% an urban (rural?) myth and without merit.
* modern (post 1970s) turbines are geared and spin slower than the original
small diameter california desert style (which was put directly in a pass used as a major migration route..... what do you expect?). Corollary: the noise factor from fast spinning turbines went out with disco as well. I've stood directly under a 300' one spinning in a moderate 25mph wind. Whoosh, whoosh. Highly tolerable standing at its base. Imperceptible some 1/4 of a mile away.
* just as many birds are killed flying into static towers and bridges, and many more are killed by cars while pecking at carrion on the highway.
There was a good article rounding up the peer reviewed studies on this in Home Power magazine some time ago, the PDF of that used to be online at their website.
Maybe you can track it down.
Bonus points will be given for spelling Slartibartfast correctly.
[Insert joke of galactic proportions here]
> Economist's solution: Don't live in Arizona.
More generalized version of this solution: Don't live in a death-zone.
Actually: right Piccard! He is the grandson of Auguste Piccard the famous balloonist who the Star Trek character was named for. And his father Jacques was one of the two submariners to (ever) visit the deepest part of the ocean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Piccard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Piccard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auguste_Piccard
Wikipedia tells me that Auguste Piccard was also the inspiration for Professor Cuthbert Calculus from Tintin.
They are playing the role of the glazier in The Broken Window Fallacy. In this way they are economic leeches which cause a net harm to both the economy and society.
No, if that were the case then there would be no need for the LGPL. If the combined work would reasonably be considered (from the user's perspective) to be a single product then the entire work must be GPL'd.
The bundled code (OS-level) exemption reads as follows (Term 2):
In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program
with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of
a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under
the scope of this License.
That's a very long way away from the library/main.c relationship.
to quote the code's author in TFA:
http://forums.informaction.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1654&p=6396#p6396
I said "illegally" because FlashGot is open sourced under the GPL license, and this means that anybody incorporating code from FlashGot (which is otherwise freely reusable) must release their code/modifications under the GPL as well, which they're not doing.
Sounds to me like he's complaining about a license violation, I don't hear anything about wanting to see his name in big bright letters.
(irrelevant...)
It requires that you advertise to the end user that they are using GPL code, and what that means for them.
The idea that "copying" a program into memory in order to run it is an act of redistribution for the purposes of copyright law* is so completely absurd and asinine that we debase ourselves to do anything but openly mock the purveyors of such drivel. I don't really care who's saying it. /Especially/ if they have an army of lawyers this will be your best (if only) long term defense.
[*] (even ignoring any Fair Use, Natural Purpose, or alfresco-user arguments for now)
wrt the kernel: Users of GPL code are free to use non-GPL drivers with a GPL OS (or do whatever the hell they want with it as long as they don't redistribute anything), but the key is that they have to add it in on their own, the kernel devs and distros can't ship with it linked.
I'm outta here..
No it doesn't. It requires that you ship the offer of code with the binary.
Please actually read the thing before making ADAMANT BUT COMPLETELY WRONG CLAIMS IN ALL CAPS.
That goes for moderators too, at least those sucked in by posters relying on authoritative sounding claims.
No, that it is licensed under the GPL license. (or if >=, then >=)
Section 2a. of the GPL2 is 4 lines long. The entire license file is 339 lines long. i.e. that's not just _it_ at all.
Sure it does. You must both advertise to the downstream user their rights under the license, and in some circumstances the No Warranty text should be shown. This is Term 1, it's not exactly buried in the text.
The original copyright statements must remain intact. (Term 1.)
An interesting commentary on the goals of the licenses and motivations of authors can be taken from this.
maybe that is a Firefox bug.
WTF are you talking about?? Please explain why it can not be both these unrelated things?
Once again, WTF are you talking about?? Except the part in the summary which says they incorporated the code of a GPL project without licensing their plugin as GPL nor letting their users know their rights under that license.
Technically a customer has to request the code and be denied it, but probably the failure to advertise that the code is available to end users under the terms of the GPL is enough to get them legally in the poop and get slapped with an injunction.
Where does this strawman come from? The problem here is not that 2 plugins of differing license sit side by side, it is that GPL code is being mixed with non-GPL code into a non-GPL product and redistributed as non-GPL. The fact that it is a for-profit company doing this doesn't change much beyond kill any innocent-mistake excuses.
All Firefox users are absolutely fine to use a mix of GPL and non GPL plugins at run time. What they can't do is redistribute the things together as a single monolithic program to others without relicensing the entire package as GPL. The GPL has to do with redistribution, not use. (ie the "copy" in "copyright")
Please RTF License! It's really not that hard.
you misunderstand my post.