You like to praise America for heading in the right direction, and blame China for the wrong direction. But if you did measure against GDP China would be getting better much faster than America is. China is going in the right direction faster than America is. Why aren't you arguing China is cleaner than America? OOPS.
You keep telling us you care about the direction and not the level, which is stupid. Because China is growing at 6+% every year. According to your theories, they could increase their CO2 5% every year and you would praise them for heading in the 'right direction'.
You wouldn't because you are an anti-China troll. But if you were consistent instead of entitled, you would be praising China.
You entitled apologist. Despite America's tiny decreases and China's slight increases, China is still per capita (only sane measurement) less than half your levels. Do you not realize China has over a billion extra people?
It's clear who's causing the problems America. Last time you said Sweden and Switzerland were your targets so I showed you them too. Which countries are all clustered together down the bottom? Which country is double the other countries?
You first Windy. Drop your levels down to anywhere near those other countries and you won't just look like a whiny douche blaming everyone else for the problems you caused.
It's good that you are finally waking up to reality Windy.
Seriously, in any large city, there are 2 main sources of pollution and CO2.
1) electricity since most cities have 1 or more coal plants.
Since Americans use way above average levels of electricity. It leads to them using more coal powered electricty per person that just about any country. More than China even.
2) vehicles, esp since nearly all are ICE.
And America also has the most vehicles it also has less eficient vehicles and drives them further than just about any other country.
Just these two things by themselves go a long way to explain why Americans per capita are amongst the dirtiest in the world.
And both those things are things people could change. You can't blame anyone but yourself Windy. You are the dirtiest, you know why and how, but you deny the need to change because you feel you are entitled to pollute more.
Many of us work in jobs today that simply didn't exist when we were born. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that there will be jobs 20 years from now that don't exist today.
Why would I be against public transport Windy? It makes no sense. It's one of the reasons American's have such a huge carbon footprint. More public transport and you can start to drop back towards twice the world average from 3 times.
Clearly everyone should do their part. But some people play a much bigger part in causing the problem than others. If an Ethiopian halves his CO2 is anyone going to notice? If an Indian a Chinaman and an American halved their CO2, which is best for the environment? Who has the most fat to cut, who can best afford it?
Some people, Windy especially, think there should be differing standards people should live by. If you are already rich you should be entitled to a better lifestyle than poorer countries, and there is no leeway for them to catch up and be like him.
Take cars for example. Americans have 910 cars per 1000 people. China 154 India 50 Togo 2. How many cars should be 'allowed'. Windy will tell those people they aren't allowed to have cars because it will make the CO2 go up. He will also praise the US if it's cars go from 910 to 900 because it's going in the right direction. But he never asks Americans to take 7 or 8 out of every 9 cars off the road, and he would never allow China to have 5x as many cars or India 10x as many, even if they still had less. He's entitled and those other people aren't.
Someone will say just get electric cars, which China is trying to do. But they still need to be produced, the electricity still needs to be provided etc.
And that's just a simple example with easy to find numbers. Take any other form of consumption to compare and it will be the same.
Air conditioning
Food
Housing
Consuming junk in general.
Western lifestyles and America in particular, produce more CO2. Why should some people be allowed to have a western lifestyle while telling others that they cant. It's completely hypocritical, and just reeks entitlement.
It's not possible to have any significant effect by some biggest actor alone.
But it is. If America was more like China and dropped from 16 t per person down to 7.5 like China. It would drop total world CO2 levels by about 7%. A bit more than 7 UKs, or 3 Germanys, or an India. That's a noticeable change. But they will never do it, they are entitled to their stuff. Better to try and force someone else to make the sacrifice on their behalf, all while pretending they are helping by cutting a tiny bit.
I don't. You constantly say America is doing better or well, It's not. It's amongst the worst/highest. Your nonsense about going in the right direction is meaningless handwaving to cover the fact you are more than twice the world average and won't be down to anywhere near that level for 50 or 100 years if ever.
Americans, Like Germans, Australians, Canadians, etc are NOT entitled to use more. That is why we need to continue bringing ours down.
BTW, Canadians and Australians use more per capita than does America. Yet, you scream about America, nothing else.
The West, and you in particular act like you are entitled to use more. You keep raving and ranting about other countries doing what you already do. But not a peep about getting America, Canada and Australia to more than half their Emissions. Just patting yourself on the back for being slightly less horrible than the year before (wait until 2018 shows you increased).
Why do you still lie about what I say. I talk about advanced countries, high consumption countries, western countries all the time, not just America. If America is singled out, it's because you already mentioned them and I'm pointing out your lies/entitlement. Would it make you feel better if I mention Australia and Canada every time as well? Will it help you to reduce your CO2?
Or will it just add to your entitlement attitude, because, well, those other countries are also doing it.
You Chinese, like most westerners, are way too high. We ALL need to bring it down.
I'm not Chinese, but you are right (how did that happen?) they are like most westerners, about average, similar levels. Want to know who isn't like most westerners? America, Australia and Canada. They are much higher.
What is important, is that nations are headed in the right direction.
The direction is not enough by itself if it's too slow to make any difference. I can start walking to the north pole, I'm heading in the right direction, do you think I will ever get there?
Getting to the target is the goal. If countries like China and India, plus all the other developing countries increase for a while then level off at I lower level than America reached and then decrease, they will likely get to the target before America does. No one credible thinks those countries will just keep going up and up and up to US levels.
China is NOT. Germany is NOT. India is NOT.
OTOH, UK IS. America IS. Canada IS.
Apart from the fact direction is just a meaningless way for you to keep your entitled high levels for as long as you can, and stop other countries from developing. India is most certainly heading in the right direction according to you. At less than half your target of Sweden and Switzerland the right direction for them will be up. China is expected to level off in the next few years, if it hasn't already and start heading down, starting from a much lower level than you rose to, so they should easily remain below your levels.
Sweden and Switzerland's levels are where we need to be. BUT the only way to get there is to be headed down not up like your nation is.
If every country was at those levels it wouldn't solve AGW anyway, it would still need to be lower.
You want to compare Sweden, Switzerland, China and the US, take a look. One of those countries is not like the others...
If you like trends and directions, the last few years all look pretty flat, and America is about as much as the other 3 added together.
Simple fact, you are unwilling to give up the luxuries that advanced economies have and revert to developing standards, no ac, no car, less meat, less consumption in general, etc, but you don't want those countries to develop and have what you have. Why aren't you asking all the developed countries to go backwards to their levels of consumption/lifestyle? Is it because you feel entitled to so much more than those people? If it's not entitlement, whats the reason?
You really are something else aren't you.
You're straight back at it again, patting America on the back for being twice as dirty as China.
Focusing on coal and China again when there are far bigger problems, and far dirtier countries.
If you really cared about AGW you would be focusing on the highest emitting people not the least.
Complete idiocy, Chinese people willing give up much more info than you can possibly imagine. They already know the Chinese government scoops up just as much data on them as the NSA collects on you, but they hardly care in the slightest.
They love their Chinese companies way more than Americans love Google. Even when it was allowed in China it had a tiny market share.
U.S. officials criticized Al Jazeera, accusing the Qatar-based news organization of having an anti-American bias, including because it broadcasted taped messages from Osama bin Laden.
So Qatar is the badguy because they broadcast messages, but Saudi Arabia is on our side because actually causing 911 is OK.
Good to know, funding terrorists and killing thousands of Americans is not as bad as gloating about it afterwards.
Pull you head of from your arse, wipe the coal dust from your eyes and look at the problem more broadly for a change.
Surely it's best to look at total fuel combustion from your same link, and not just coal.
You will notice two things
US increased slightly from 2016-17, not the getting better you always claim.
And America's 5,072 MtCO2 isn't a quarter of China's 9,297 even though they have less than 1 quarter of the people. Per person America is clearly over twice as bad, despite all China's coal.
You are comparing apples and oranges Windy. We are talking about coal for electricity, where America is much higher still. It's obvious with what you showed, with industrial coal included the two countries are basically the same. So without those uses, electricity America must be far worse, and I've showed you numerous times.
This was a funny quote from your link
Americans who point to Chinese coal as a reason to not cut CO2 emissions are clearly engaged in little more than special pleading, a family pissing in a pool all the more because they have eyed up a bigger family that has entered that pool.
Did you miss this bit too? China will be peaking at a much lower level than America reached.
China’s coal consumption is still growing, but it is still 33% or so lower than it was when America’s per-capita coal consumption peaked in 2000. Likewise, America’s per-capita coal consumption was above current Chinese levels for the last 50 years.
Here is where you prove all your other comments about China increasing coal consumption were lies. Here now you are telling us it dropped 9%, but you often lie and say it went up 5% here and here
This last site you mention, you may want to look at the other tabs Windy.
Renewables China 26% America 17.7%
Nat gas America is about 13x as much per person
Oil products America is about 5.5x as much per person.
Electricity America is about 2.6x as much per person.
Total energy America is about 2.8x as much per person.
It's obvious why you are so fixated on coal and nothing else. It's the only thing even remotely comparable, so you rant about as much and as often as you can to distract from all the others.
Not something someone who really cared about AGW would do. But it is something an anti-
China coal troll would do.
Why is an American entitled to use more coal than a Chinese person Windy?
In all your ranting and raving about China and coal, you still haven't explained why Americans use more. And also why that's OK with you.
China is over 4x bigger than America, but uses less than 4x the coal. Why are you so dirty? Whats the excuse this time?
Way to miss the forest for the trees.
I see how you tried to argue 'point by point' but failed to understand (intentionally) the 1 and only point. Rich people consume more and emit the most CO2. It's a fact. They act like they are entitled to do it.
Not too bad as trolls go 5/10. But all of your points are easily shown to be disingenuous. Why are we entitled to more than them? Answer that simple question and I may believe you are slightly serious.
You show your obvious entitlement mentality when you talk of reverting to 1990 levels. You want to go back to a time when we still emitted the most, and other countries were even poorer and even less developed than they are now. It's absurd on the face of it. You plan is to grandfather in our high levels of pollution and stop everyone else from developing. I'll ask you again, why are we entitled to more than them?
If you seriously think 1990 levels of CO2 emissions are the target. fine, total up the numbers and split that number evenly per person. Fair for all sized countries big and small. You will find developing countries will be able to emit much more CO2 than now as they catch up to the west, and countries like America will need to cut by 3/4 or so. Good luck. But we need to decrease from 1990, so maybe we should cut 4/5 instead. Will you do it? No you're entitled to the life you are used to, it's always other people who are the problem, can't let them be like you.
When I point out your lies, like just last week here you just pretend not to notice and run away.
I deny them because they aren't lies and I show you.
You still have never shown a real one, dishonourable scum that you are, still likes to lie about that too.
Pu lease, you are only kidding yourself. You are constantly patting yourself on the back for the great job America is doing and ranting about coal and China. Even 2 sentences after you claim "I have never once said that America is innocent in this." you pretend they are ok because they are heading in the right direction.
American people pollute just about the most, and most of it is transport, yet you always go on and on about coal, never oil, or soon to be bigger in the US Natural gas. not a peep. Just China and coal, you are like a broken record, and you lie constantly.
Where did all the extra emissions go? If China is putting out so much more like you claim, why isn't it backed up by the measurements of the CO2 directly?
Slashdot Mirror
Per GDP is about the worst possible measure.
You like to praise America for heading in the right direction, and blame China for the wrong direction. But if you did measure against GDP China would be getting better much faster than America is. China is going in the right direction faster than America is. Why aren't you arguing China is cleaner than America? OOPS.
You keep telling us you care about the direction and not the level, which is stupid. Because China is growing at 6+% every year. According to your theories, they could increase their CO2 5% every year and you would praise them for heading in the 'right direction'.
You wouldn't because you are an anti-China troll. But if you were consistent instead of entitled, you would be praising China.
In addition, china is by far the largest in terms of total emissions across all time frames
Yet another obvious Windy lie. Don't you ever get sick of lying all the time? literally on the first page of Google.
Why bother continuing the lie further? Are you really that stupid?
You entitled apologist. Despite America's tiny decreases and China's slight increases, China is still per capita (only sane measurement) less than half your levels. Do you not realize China has over a billion extra people?
What China is doing to Venezuela? Are you insane?
In addition, china is by far the largest in terms of total emissions across all time frames
Yet another obvious Windy lie. Don't you ever get sick of lying all the time? literally on the first page of Google.
Trolls gunna troll I guess.
You think telling people they cant be like you isn't hypocritical? You obviously aren't serious.
It's clear who's causing the problems America. Last time you said Sweden and Switzerland were your targets so I showed you them too. Which countries are all clustered together down the bottom? Which country is double the other countries?
You first Windy. Drop your levels down to anywhere near those other countries and you won't just look like a whiny douche blaming everyone else for the problems you caused.
Amazing how many ppl really do not look at reality.
Said without even the slightest hint of irony...
Good posting.
Agreed.
Seriously, in any large city, there are 2 main sources of pollution and CO2. 1) electricity since most cities have 1 or more coal plants.
Since Americans use way above average levels of electricity. It leads to them using more coal powered electricty per person that just about any country. More than China even.
2) vehicles, esp since nearly all are ICE.
And America also has the most vehicles it also has less eficient vehicles and drives them further than just about any other country.
Just these two things by themselves go a long way to explain why Americans per capita are amongst the dirtiest in the world.
And both those things are things people could change. You can't blame anyone but yourself Windy. You are the dirtiest, you know why and how, but you deny the need to change because you feel you are entitled to pollute more.
Many of us work in jobs today that simply didn't exist when we were born. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that there will be jobs 20 years from now that don't exist today.
Whats to stop AI doing those jobs too?
I thought immigrants were flooding all countries and stealing all your jobs? Isn't that why you are all so afraid of them?
Throw in a couple pedo accusations and an SEC investigation and you have the beginnings of a made for tv movie.
Why would I be against public transport Windy? It makes no sense. It's one of the reasons American's have such a huge carbon footprint. More public transport and you can start to drop back towards twice the world average from 3 times.
Fuck off Windy you lying sack of shit.
Clearly everyone should do their part. But some people play a much bigger part in causing the problem than others. If an Ethiopian halves his CO2 is anyone going to notice? If an Indian a Chinaman and an American halved their CO2, which is best for the environment? Who has the most fat to cut, who can best afford it?
Some people, Windy especially, think there should be differing standards people should live by. If you are already rich you should be entitled to a better lifestyle than poorer countries, and there is no leeway for them to catch up and be like him.
Take cars for example. Americans have 910 cars per 1000 people. China 154 India 50 Togo 2. How many cars should be 'allowed'. Windy will tell those people they aren't allowed to have cars because it will make the CO2 go up. He will also praise the US if it's cars go from 910 to 900 because it's going in the right direction. But he never asks Americans to take 7 or 8 out of every 9 cars off the road, and he would never allow China to have 5x as many cars or India 10x as many, even if they still had less. He's entitled and those other people aren't.
Someone will say just get electric cars, which China is trying to do. But they still need to be produced, the electricity still needs to be provided etc.
And that's just a simple example with easy to find numbers. Take any other form of consumption to compare and it will be the same.
Air conditioning
Food
Housing
Consuming junk in general.
Western lifestyles and America in particular, produce more CO2. Why should some people be allowed to have a western lifestyle while telling others that they cant. It's completely hypocritical, and just reeks entitlement.
It's not possible to have any significant effect by some biggest actor alone.
But it is. If America was more like China and dropped from 16 t per person down to 7.5 like China. It would drop total world CO2 levels by about 7%. A bit more than 7 UKs, or 3 Germanys, or an India. That's a noticeable change. But they will never do it, they are entitled to their stuff. Better to try and force someone else to make the sacrifice on their behalf, all while pretending they are helping by cutting a tiny bit.
Why do you keep lying about what I said.
I don't. You constantly say America is doing better or well, It's not. It's amongst the worst/highest. Your nonsense about going in the right direction is meaningless handwaving to cover the fact you are more than twice the world average and won't be down to anywhere near that level for 50 or 100 years if ever.
Americans, Like Germans, Australians, Canadians, etc are NOT entitled to use more. That is why we need to continue bringing ours down. BTW, Canadians and Australians use more per capita than does America. Yet, you scream about America, nothing else.
The West, and you in particular act like you are entitled to use more. You keep raving and ranting about other countries doing what you already do. But not a peep about getting America, Canada and Australia to more than half their Emissions. Just patting yourself on the back for being slightly less horrible than the year before (wait until 2018 shows you increased).
Why do you still lie about what I say. I talk about advanced countries, high consumption countries, western countries all the time, not just America. If America is singled out, it's because you already mentioned them and I'm pointing out your lies/entitlement. Would it make you feel better if I mention Australia and Canada every time as well? Will it help you to reduce your CO2?
Or will it just add to your entitlement attitude, because, well, those other countries are also doing it.
You Chinese, like most westerners, are way too high. We ALL need to bring it down.
I'm not Chinese, but you are right (how did that happen?) they are like most westerners, about average, similar levels. Want to know who isn't like most westerners? America, Australia and Canada. They are much higher.
What is important, is that nations are headed in the right direction.
The direction is not enough by itself if it's too slow to make any difference. I can start walking to the north pole, I'm heading in the right direction, do you think I will ever get there?
Getting to the target is the goal. If countries like China and India, plus all the other developing countries increase for a while then level off at I lower level than America reached and then decrease, they will likely get to the target before America does. No one credible thinks those countries will just keep going up and up and up to US levels.
China is NOT. Germany is NOT. India is NOT. OTOH, UK IS. America IS. Canada IS.
Apart from the fact direction is just a meaningless way for you to keep your entitled high levels for as long as you can, and stop other countries from developing. India is most certainly heading in the right direction according to you. At less than half your target of Sweden and Switzerland the right direction for them will be up. China is expected to level off in the next few years, if it hasn't already and start heading down, starting from a much lower level than you rose to, so they should easily remain below your levels.
Sweden and Switzerland's levels are where we need to be. BUT the only way to get there is to be headed down not up like your nation is.
If every country was at those levels it wouldn't solve AGW anyway, it would still need to be lower.
You want to compare Sweden, Switzerland, China and the US, take a look. One of those countries is not like the others...
If you like trends and directions, the last few years all look pretty flat, and America is about as much as the other 3 added together.
Simple fact, you are unwilling to give up the luxuries that advanced economies have and revert to developing standards, no ac, no car, less meat, less consumption in general, etc, but you don't want those countries to develop and have what you have. Why aren't you asking all the developed countries to go backwards to their levels of consumption/lifestyle? Is it because you feel entitled to so much more than those people? If it's not entitlement, whats the reason?
You really are something else aren't you.
You're straight back at it again, patting America on the back for being twice as dirty as China.
Focusing on coal and China again when there are far bigger problems, and far dirtier countries.
If you really cared about AGW you would be focusing on the highest emitting people not the least.
Complete idiocy, Chinese people willing give up much more info than you can possibly imagine. They already know the Chinese government scoops up just as much data on them as the NSA collects on you, but they hardly care in the slightest.
They love their Chinese companies way more than Americans love Google. Even when it was allowed in China it had a tiny market share.
U.S. officials criticized Al Jazeera, accusing the Qatar-based news organization of having an anti-American bias, including because it broadcasted taped messages from Osama bin Laden.
So Qatar is the badguy because they broadcast messages, but Saudi Arabia is on our side because actually causing 911 is OK.
Good to know, funding terrorists and killing thousands of Americans is not as bad as gloating about it afterwards.
I think China is perfectly capable of spying on its own people without Googles help.
Pull you head of from your arse, wipe the coal dust from your eyes and look at the problem more broadly for a change. Surely it's best to look at total fuel combustion from your same link, and not just coal.
You will notice two things
US increased slightly from 2016-17, not the getting better you always claim.
And America's 5,072 MtCO2 isn't a quarter of China's 9,297 even though they have less than 1 quarter of the people. Per person America is clearly over twice as bad, despite all China's coal.
You are comparing apples and oranges Windy. We are talking about coal for electricity, where America is much higher still. It's obvious with what you showed, with industrial coal included the two countries are basically the same. So without those uses, electricity America must be far worse, and I've showed you numerous times.
This was a funny quote from your link
Americans who point to Chinese coal as a reason to not cut CO2 emissions are clearly engaged in little more than special pleading, a family pissing in a pool all the more because they have eyed up a bigger family that has entered that pool.
Did you miss this bit too? China will be peaking at a much lower level than America reached.
China’s coal consumption is still growing, but it is still 33% or so lower than it was when America’s per-capita coal consumption peaked in 2000. Likewise, America’s per-capita coal consumption was above current Chinese levels for the last 50 years.
Here is where you prove all your other comments about China increasing coal consumption were lies. Here now you are telling us it dropped 9%, but you often lie and say it went up 5% here and here
This last site you mention, you may want to look at the other tabs Windy.
Renewables China 26% America 17.7%
Nat gas America is about 13x as much per person
Oil products America is about 5.5x as much per person.
Electricity America is about 2.6x as much per person.
Total energy America is about 2.8x as much per person.
It's obvious why you are so fixated on coal and nothing else. It's the only thing even remotely comparable, so you rant about as much and as often as you can to distract from all the others.
Not something someone who really cared about AGW would do. But it is something an anti- China coal troll would do.
Why is an American entitled to use more coal than a Chinese person Windy?
In all your ranting and raving about China and coal, you still haven't explained why Americans use more. And also why that's OK with you.
China is over 4x bigger than America, but uses less than 4x the coal. Why are you so dirty? Whats the excuse this time?
Way to miss the forest for the trees.
I see how you tried to argue 'point by point' but failed to understand (intentionally) the 1 and only point. Rich people consume more and emit the most CO2. It's a fact. They act like they are entitled to do it.
Not too bad as trolls go 5/10. But all of your points are easily shown to be disingenuous. Why are we entitled to more than them? Answer that simple question and I may believe you are slightly serious.
You show your obvious entitlement mentality when you talk of reverting to 1990 levels. You want to go back to a time when we still emitted the most, and other countries were even poorer and even less developed than they are now. It's absurd on the face of it. You plan is to grandfather in our high levels of pollution and stop everyone else from developing. I'll ask you again, why are we entitled to more than them?
If you seriously think 1990 levels of CO2 emissions are the target. fine, total up the numbers and split that number evenly per person. Fair for all sized countries big and small. You will find developing countries will be able to emit much more CO2 than now as they catch up to the west, and countries like America will need to cut by 3/4 or so. Good luck. But we need to decrease from 1990, so maybe we should cut 4/5 instead. Will you do it? No you're entitled to the life you are used to, it's always other people who are the problem, can't let them be like you.
When I point out your lies, like just last week here you just pretend not to notice and run away.
I deny them because they aren't lies and I show you.
You still have never shown a real one, dishonourable scum that you are, still likes to lie about that too.
Pu lease, you are only kidding yourself. You are constantly patting yourself on the back for the great job America is doing and ranting about coal and China. Even 2 sentences after you claim "I have never once said that America is innocent in this." you pretend they are ok because they are heading in the right direction.
American people pollute just about the most, and most of it is transport, yet you always go on and on about coal, never oil, or soon to be bigger in the US Natural gas. not a peep. Just China and coal, you are like a broken record, and you lie constantly.
Where did all the extra emissions go? If China is putting out so much more like you claim, why isn't it backed up by the measurements of the CO2 directly?