None of those, except the first, are typical business use. I was talking about the millions of desktop that run office software, accounting software, interface with document management systems, email, etc....
Financial applications? If so and this needs to be done on a desktop, they should invest in a big iron and not do this stuff in a spreadsheet as a glorified database. Right tools for the job, please.
Vista? It's still alive... It came with many computer and many users are still using it. Besides, 7 is nothing more than Vista a bit tuned. There are still many things that irk me about sevens interface. (Like no vertical lines in a directory tree... WTF were they thinking?) Luckily you can downgrade Vista Business, which is what came with some PCs at work. Those all run XP Pro now. To get 7 we'd have to shell out money and I'm really not all that convinced of any benefits of Seven. (Bar 64-bit support, but for business use that's largely irrelevant) Users of Vista Home Premium are out of luck though.
I'm confused. Where exactly did I insert "hated ideas". Just asking... I defended Microsoft (dangerous thing on slashdot), use Linux daily at home and at my job and bought an iMac (Core i7, 16GB RAM, so I didn't even skimp!) for my wife just last month. I pretty much have them all covered and use them interchangeably.
You made a broad generalization (people hate Microsoft/Windows) and I dutifully showed that you were wrong. On that comment, you then said "Ah, but the people you singled out were the people I was talking about all along".... You do see a problem with that? Let me illustrate: You: "Everybody hates the Jonas Brothers". Me: "Hmmmm, strange, I'm pretty sure I saw many pre-pubescent girls idolizing them". You: "Ah, well, I was talking about all the others.".
That's not an argument. The premise was "the iPad is what a computer is 'for the rest of us'". The amount of money someone has, doesn't impact on that statement. I can easily imagine someone who has an iPhone (for calling) and an iPad (as the original poster stated) as a full computer replacement. That is, in the current situation not possible.
What I also noticed is that the lower-income people all fly over the iPhone. They seem to be willing to pay the 70USD.... Besides, that sounds like a whole lot of money: My sister has an iPhone and has a unlimited plan (yes, including data) for 45€/month. There are cheaper options than that one.
All in all, if the iPad is a full computer replacement, I'd expect it to fully function with an iPhone as the iPad can't be used to call.
If you don't have money, getting a Netbook is the logical thing to do. Cheaper than any iPad and you can even use it to charge that iPhone you thought you needed.
Interesting indeed... OpenOffice runs just fine on the EEE 701 4G. (Running Debian Lenny with LXDE) Granted, I did give it a tad bit more memory (2GB).
Follow up question is in the neighbouring thread. However, I'll give you another: If it is a full featured computer replacement, can I sync my iPhone and iPod with it? I mean, that's an essential function of a computer: be able to provide for the accessories I had. They're Apple accesories, so shouldn't be a big deal, right?
Follow up question: Can it update itself (Security Updates, etc...) without a PC?
I'm not trying to diss the iPad, it already has enough flaws in itself, but I'm trying to verify if it is indeed a full replacement for a computer "for the rest of us" as the original poster claimed.
I recently (and in the past, in my iBook days) had such a bad customer experience with Apple that I really will try to avoid their products. The iPad does look like a nifty device for surfing on the couch, but to me that's not worth 500€ (smallest model). To me that's worth 200€, tops.... especially given the constraints.
As for the "tiny screen"... You do realise that the iPad is 1024x768, don't you? Which by all measurements is pretty crappy. Sure, it is incredible compared to the original EEE PC 701, but netbooks moved beyond that already.
I ended up just giving it away to a female friend who's only around 5ft tall (where as I'm 6'4") and thus better proportioned to using such a device.
Does she still use it? If so, you already disproved your subject line.
I know my sister still uses her netbook. My wife loved her (actually mine, but that's semantics) EEE PC 701 4G for surfing on the hospitals WiFi when she has to stay there for 7 months (don't ask!). If your friend still uses it, it could simply be an indication that due to your body build you can't use those devices but people who don't have the constraints you have, can be very happy with them. As far as I seen, netbooks are very popular with the ladies. Cute, fits purse and they... don't have large fingers.
Look at it this way: I've got a roadster. I'm 1.8m tall and it fits like a glove. I've got a friend, who is nearly 2m tall. I let him do a test drive. He just barely fit with the steering wheel between his knees. The vehicle was, from his point of view, completely unusable because of his size. Seems, you have the same problem with netbooks. That's not really the "fault" of the netbook, now is it?
WTF? Do you spend any time outside of slashdot? People definitely do not hate Microsoft. Heck, I've had people complaining to me upon giving them an XP laptop that it didn't have (back then) Vista on it. (Yes, this really happened) Try selling Linux to one of those so called people that "carry hatred towards Windows". You'll see how quickly they'll flee back to their "hated" operating system. You and I know that 95% of normal users needs are covered by Linux.
I hope you realise that people do not blame Microsoft for their computer woes. As a matter of fact, people who understand that Windows is the source of their problems are the low-end power users and Apple Fanbois (Linux Fanbois too, lately). The high-end power users, know how to secure their machines and won't have problems. (I'm one of these weird people who has been running Windows XP for years as a limited user, and it fucking works. You just have to know how.) The non-power users will just point at the computer and say "my computer is acting up again". To them their is no separation of OS and hardware.
Question: Can you actually use the iPad without having a computer which runs iTunes? If the answer to that is "Yes, you can", then you're right. Otherwise, the iPad is just an accessory to your real computer.
You don't install your operating system using PXE? I do.
Re:I finally could tell my friend to go to hell
on
Windows 95 Turns 15
·
· Score: 1
Filesystem would be the first to spring to mind. By using DOS, they limited themself to FAT (if you want to have the advantages you talk about) and we got the huge kludge they used to implement long filenames.
Re:I finally could tell my friend to go to hell
on
Windows 95 Turns 15
·
· Score: 1
I held out on OS/2 until 1997 or 1998. Many stuff worked perfectly well under OS/2 and with Win32S (anyone remember that) you bought some life when the first 32-bit programs came out.
The DOS emulation was great. I remember playing Terror From The Deep flawlessly on OS/2 while having multiple other programs open.
Incidentially, it was Word that forced me over to the 9x series. I was at University and they all started to use Word. I was still usinhg WP 5.1 and I couldn't exchange docs with them anymore. That is when I switched.
In the early years of 95, all games stayed on the DOS platform and many of them ran just fine on OS/2. Yes, even with the DOS extenders.
Now I'm full time Linux. I'm glad I left the Redmond experience behind me.
Re:I finally could tell my friend to go to hell
on
Windows 95 Turns 15
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Yes, it did use it as a bootloader. Question is: why didn't they write a propper bootloader in the first place then? Also, it damn well could use DOS drivers. The device manager complained about drivers in 16-bit mode, but it use them. It WAS a hybrid and not a full 32-bit OS.
Re:I finally could tell my friend to go to hell
on
Windows 95 Turns 15
·
· Score: 2, Informative
It was even bundled with OEM machines. I remember Highscreen (Link German, as the brand was German) computers coming withi it.
Re:try running Windows 95 on modern hardware...
on
Windows 95 Turns 15
·
· Score: 1
Replace Windows 95 with Windows 2000 and I agree. Windows 2000 was the apex of the Microsoft Operating systems. If it weren't for the ubiquity of wireless (and the non-support of Windows 2000 of it), I think I could still use it productively today. Windows XP brought two things that were worthwhile: Fast User Switching and Wireless support out of the box... which many wireless chipset manufacturers don't seem to understand given the unneeded crap they bundle. A third, but mostly for corporate use, would be Remote Desktop... but my memory might be hazy and W2k might have had it.
Re:I finally could tell my friend to go to hell
on
Windows 95 Turns 15
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Yes, but OS/2 was still way better than Win95. Win95 was 32-bit "OS" bolted on DOS. OS/2 was 32-bit from the ground up. The Windows of today has more in common with OS/2 than it has with Windows 95.
Gah... You are talking about 3000€ in iPad assuming the cheapest one. I just had recently (last week actually) the occasion of trying one. It looks nifty, usage is easy... I can see it as a useful device for my wife, because she is mainly a media-consumer. It most likely beats surfing on the couch with a laptop.
One of the things that irked me while using it was that I did not find a way to define user accounts. This means it is 100% a personal device and I have serious problems with that. If I plog down 500€ on a device, I expect it to differentiate between me and my wife upon usage. I don't want to have fashion websites in my browser history, nor have her snooping in my emails and she most definitely doesn't want computer hardware and porn from my browsing history during her usage.
I don't like it... Given my criticism, I should buy two iPads. One for me, one for my wife... 1000€? No way in hell that's going to happen. Even 500€ is way too much for what the thing is.
That only works if you're dealing with one keyboard layout AND can touch type. My sister can touch type, but she can only do so on a Swiss-French keyboard.
I can't touch type, but in a day, I have to do with at least three (easily up to five) different keyboard layouts. Alphanumeric isn't that bad, but every special symbol has a special place on every layout. Try switching from AZERTY to QWERTZ passing to QWERTY a few times a day and tell me for each where, for example the "!" key is.
I don't think you can...
Keyboard layouts are a bitch. They should all have standardized on QWERTY with US layout and *extensions* on those for national needs. The Alt-Gr button was invented for it. Of course, secretaries around the world would revolt if you do that, so better cope with the mess keyboard layouts are.
One thing for me that was a dead giveaway was that every single report regarding the Toyota sudden acceleration issue happened in the good old United States (Same for Audi, by the way). Statistically, it's very unlikely that such a problem would only happen in a single country even though these cars do not differ significantly between different countries. You'd expect a few deaths in Japan, France, German, the United Kingdom where Toyota cars are also very popular.
Too bad for Toyota that their brand has been permanently damaged in the US. (Just ask Audi how well it went for them the years after the accusations). GM, Ford and Chrysler are probably very happy about this.
I'm sure you have a nice arse, but please, tell me what advantages it has... Don't say "64-bit, more memory", because I already said above that this is not important for the normal office drone.
Slashdot Mirror
None of those, except the first, are typical business use. I was talking about the millions of desktop that run office software, accounting software, interface with document management systems, email, etc....
Financial applications? If so and this needs to be done on a desktop, they should invest in a big iron and not do this stuff in a spreadsheet as a glorified database. Right tools for the job, please.
Vista? It's still alive... It came with many computer and many users are still using it. Besides, 7 is nothing more than Vista a bit tuned. There are still many things that irk me about sevens interface. (Like no vertical lines in a directory tree... WTF were they thinking?) Luckily you can downgrade Vista Business, which is what came with some PCs at work. Those all run XP Pro now. To get 7 we'd have to shell out money and I'm really not all that convinced of any benefits of Seven. (Bar 64-bit support, but for business use that's largely irrelevant) Users of Vista Home Premium are out of luck though.
I'm confused. Where exactly did I insert "hated ideas". Just asking... I defended Microsoft (dangerous thing on slashdot), use Linux daily at home and at my job and bought an iMac (Core i7, 16GB RAM, so I didn't even skimp!) for my wife just last month. I pretty much have them all covered and use them interchangeably.
You made a broad generalization (people hate Microsoft/Windows) and I dutifully showed that you were wrong. On that comment, you then said "Ah, but the people you singled out were the people I was talking about all along".... You do see a problem with that? Let me illustrate: You: "Everybody hates the Jonas Brothers". Me: "Hmmmm, strange, I'm pretty sure I saw many pre-pubescent girls idolizing them". You: "Ah, well, I was talking about all the others.".
That's not an argument. The premise was "the iPad is what a computer is 'for the rest of us'". The amount of money someone has, doesn't impact on that statement. I can easily imagine someone who has an iPhone (for calling) and an iPad (as the original poster stated) as a full computer replacement. That is, in the current situation not possible.
What I also noticed is that the lower-income people all fly over the iPhone. They seem to be willing to pay the 70USD.... Besides, that sounds like a whole lot of money: My sister has an iPhone and has a unlimited plan (yes, including data) for 45€/month. There are cheaper options than that one.
All in all, if the iPad is a full computer replacement, I'd expect it to fully function with an iPhone as the iPad can't be used to call.
If you don't have money, getting a Netbook is the logical thing to do. Cheaper than any iPad and you can even use it to charge that iPhone you thought you needed.
Interesting indeed... OpenOffice runs just fine on the EEE 701 4G. (Running Debian Lenny with LXDE) Granted, I did give it a tad bit more memory (2GB).
Summa sumarum: not a full computer replacement as you need a computer to keep it updated.
Follow up question is in the neighbouring thread. However, I'll give you another: If it is a full featured computer replacement, can I sync my iPhone and iPod with it? I mean, that's an essential function of a computer: be able to provide for the accessories I had. They're Apple accesories, so shouldn't be a big deal, right?
One of these does not fit....
Follow up question: Can it update itself (Security Updates, etc...) without a PC?
I'm not trying to diss the iPad, it already has enough flaws in itself, but I'm trying to verify if it is indeed a full replacement for a computer "for the rest of us" as the original poster claimed.
I recently (and in the past, in my iBook days) had such a bad customer experience with Apple that I really will try to avoid their products. The iPad does look like a nifty device for surfing on the couch, but to me that's not worth 500€ (smallest model). To me that's worth 200€, tops.... especially given the constraints.
As for the "tiny screen"... You do realise that the iPad is 1024x768, don't you? Which by all measurements is pretty crappy. Sure, it is incredible compared to the original EEE PC 701, but netbooks moved beyond that already.
Does she still use it? If so, you already disproved your subject line.
I know my sister still uses her netbook. My wife loved her (actually mine, but that's semantics) EEE PC 701 4G for surfing on the hospitals WiFi when she has to stay there for 7 months (don't ask!). If your friend still uses it, it could simply be an indication that due to your body build you can't use those devices but people who don't have the constraints you have, can be very happy with them. As far as I seen, netbooks are very popular with the ladies. Cute, fits purse and they... don't have large fingers.
Look at it this way: I've got a roadster. I'm 1.8m tall and it fits like a glove. I've got a friend, who is nearly 2m tall. I let him do a test drive. He just barely fit with the steering wheel between his knees. The vehicle was, from his point of view, completely unusable because of his size. Seems, you have the same problem with netbooks. That's not really the "fault" of the netbook, now is it?
WTF? Do you spend any time outside of slashdot? People definitely do not hate Microsoft. Heck, I've had people complaining to me upon giving them an XP laptop that it didn't have (back then) Vista on it. (Yes, this really happened) Try selling Linux to one of those so called people that "carry hatred towards Windows". You'll see how quickly they'll flee back to their "hated" operating system. You and I know that 95% of normal users needs are covered by Linux.
I hope you realise that people do not blame Microsoft for their computer woes. As a matter of fact, people who understand that Windows is the source of their problems are the low-end power users and Apple Fanbois (Linux Fanbois too, lately). The high-end power users, know how to secure their machines and won't have problems. (I'm one of these weird people who has been running Windows XP for years as a limited user, and it fucking works. You just have to know how.) The non-power users will just point at the computer and say "my computer is acting up again". To them their is no separation of OS and hardware.
Question: Can you actually use the iPad without having a computer which runs iTunes? If the answer to that is "Yes, you can", then you're right. Otherwise, the iPad is just an accessory to your real computer.
You don't install your operating system using PXE? I do.
Filesystem would be the first to spring to mind. By using DOS, they limited themself to FAT (if you want to have the advantages you talk about) and we got the huge kludge they used to implement long filenames.
I held out on OS/2 until 1997 or 1998. Many stuff worked perfectly well under OS/2 and with Win32S (anyone remember that) you bought some life when the first 32-bit programs came out.
The DOS emulation was great. I remember playing Terror From The Deep flawlessly on OS/2 while having multiple other programs open.
Incidentially, it was Word that forced me over to the 9x series. I was at University and they all started to use Word. I was still usinhg WP 5.1 and I couldn't exchange docs with them anymore. That is when I switched.
In the early years of 95, all games stayed on the DOS platform and many of them ran just fine on OS/2. Yes, even with the DOS extenders.
Now I'm full time Linux. I'm glad I left the Redmond experience behind me.
Yes, it did use it as a bootloader. Question is: why didn't they write a propper bootloader in the first place then? Also, it damn well could use DOS drivers. The device manager complained about drivers in 16-bit mode, but it use them. It WAS a hybrid and not a full 32-bit OS.
It was even bundled with OEM machines. I remember Highscreen (Link German, as the brand was German) computers coming withi it.
Replace Windows 95 with Windows 2000 and I agree. Windows 2000 was the apex of the Microsoft Operating systems. If it weren't for the ubiquity of wireless (and the non-support of Windows 2000 of it), I think I could still use it productively today. Windows XP brought two things that were worthwhile: Fast User Switching and Wireless support out of the box... which many wireless chipset manufacturers don't seem to understand given the unneeded crap they bundle. A third, but mostly for corporate use, would be Remote Desktop... but my memory might be hazy and W2k might have had it.
Yes, but OS/2 was still way better than Win95. Win95 was 32-bit "OS" bolted on DOS. OS/2 was 32-bit from the ground up. The Windows of today has more in common with OS/2 than it has with Windows 95.
Gah... You are talking about 3000€ in iPad assuming the cheapest one. I just had recently (last week actually) the occasion of trying one. It looks nifty, usage is easy... I can see it as a useful device for my wife, because she is mainly a media-consumer. It most likely beats surfing on the couch with a laptop.
One of the things that irked me while using it was that I did not find a way to define user accounts. This means it is 100% a personal device and I have serious problems with that. If I plog down 500€ on a device, I expect it to differentiate between me and my wife upon usage. I don't want to have fashion websites in my browser history, nor have her snooping in my emails and she most definitely doesn't want computer hardware and porn from my browsing history during her usage.
I don't like it... Given my criticism, I should buy two iPads. One for me, one for my wife... 1000€? No way in hell that's going to happen. Even 500€ is way too much for what the thing is.
That only works if you're dealing with one keyboard layout AND can touch type. My sister can touch type, but she can only do so on a Swiss-French keyboard.
I can't touch type, but in a day, I have to do with at least three (easily up to five) different keyboard layouts. Alphanumeric isn't that bad, but every special symbol has a special place on every layout. Try switching from AZERTY to QWERTZ passing to QWERTY a few times a day and tell me for each where, for example the "!" key is.
I don't think you can...
Keyboard layouts are a bitch. They should all have standardized on QWERTY with US layout and *extensions* on those for national needs. The Alt-Gr button was invented for it. Of course, secretaries around the world would revolt if you do that, so better cope with the mess keyboard layouts are.
It's open source now? ;-)
Given all this:
Well, that's how I understood it.
I am not surprised.... Same thing happened to Audi back in the day.
One thing for me that was a dead giveaway was that every single report regarding the Toyota sudden acceleration issue happened in the good old United States (Same for Audi, by the way). Statistically, it's very unlikely that such a problem would only happen in a single country even though these cars do not differ significantly between different countries. You'd expect a few deaths in Japan, France, German, the United Kingdom where Toyota cars are also very popular.
Too bad for Toyota that their brand has been permanently damaged in the US. (Just ask Audi how well it went for them the years after the accusations). GM, Ford and Chrysler are probably very happy about this.
I'm sure you have a nice arse, but please, tell me what advantages it has... Don't say "64-bit, more memory", because I already said above that this is not important for the normal office drone.