Unless you're talking about an Atom that's not 64 bit capable
So, I'm just imagining running a 330 and D510 with a 64-bit operating system? Now, of course, you can't find Atom motherboards that support more than 4GB RAM and the two I run have only 4GB RAM and some of it is "stolen" by the graphics card.
From what I understood, Atoms can't address more than 4GB though, but running 64-bit instructions is no problem.
Apart from that: yes, modern Atom CPUs do run 64-bit operating systems.
Hehe, good point. There is probably some truth to it, but not as much as you'd like. While my life before getting married was pretty much in geek-wonderland-a-core-i7-is-not-enough, I ended up getting to know a whole new world. A world where people aren't poor, but their computers are in the range of Intel P-IV / AMD Athlon XP machines in the 2.0GHz range with 512MB to 1GB RAM and they do just fine. The computer does the (limited) task they demand from it and that's it.
If you think that most people -who can afford it- have recent computers, you're into some big surprise. For many people this is a tool and won't replace it until it breaks and/or doesn't do what they want. I can fully understand them: I still have my CRT TV because I will not replace it before it breaks. Does the job, and it's money wasted to replace it with some LCD/Plasma as it's only used to watch TV Programmes anyway (rarely a DVD... I don't even have a Blue-Ray. The only game console I own is a PS2 and that's SD).
I personally, wouldn't be surprised if the average home actually uses a 4-5 year old computer as their primary machine.
It was on sale... It was marked Vista-Ready and came with Windows XP MCE. This was before everyone knew that Vista would be a dud. Since it came with XP, it had to go as it was considered obsolete. It was one of those laptops with "Vista Capable" stickers, by the way. Which meant no aero, which meant to the end-user "Wait, I don't get the full Vista". My 2007 laptop has run Linux since the beginning and never made a problem. I'm typing on it right now, thank you very much.
Apart from that, I ran Vista on a 4GB RAM machine and it was awful. Felt slower than my P-IV 2.6GHz/2GB RAM on XP SP2 back then. I really don't believe your Vista machine with 0.5GB RAM worked fine at all, given that XP SP3 is just barely usable as a office computer with 0.5GB RAM.
Right now, any system 3-5 years old is likely to be 'good enough' for most peoples' tasks - [...] On the older systems with only 1-4GB of DDR2 support (or present), this is going to start being a problem
Aren't you contradicting yourself a bit? Those 3-5 year old computer have 1GB or 2GB RAM already and they are being sufficient. I have a laptop, bought in January 2007, so it's 4 years old. I came with 1GB RAM, it now has 2GB RAM because it was a cheap upgrade. It was a laptop on sale because it couldn't reach Vistas requirements, so back then 1GB wasn't all that hot either. So, unless you meant those "demanding users", for a normal user 1GB is enough, 2GB better.. Beyond that not so much.
I do advocate to take the most RAM you can afford for any machine you have and I have done this since at least 2005. My wifes new iMac has 16GB RAM. Does she need it? No... But the day she thinks it's too slow, I can just say... "Sorry, it's already maxed out, I can't do anything". It gives a bit more headroom, but I've never seen it use more than 4GB (which is what it came with). I'd call it "anti-bitching-insurance".;-)
Same thing with my brothers new computer: got 16GB for it. It was two 8GB kits at 75€ or so... Not exactly expensive.
Will they use it? My wife definitely not. My brother may or may not benefit from it given he plays a lot of games.
For me? I live on what comes out of the dumpsters and buy left and right stuff to upgrade. Got a AMD Athlon 64 X2 socket 939 somewhere and 4 sticks of 1GB DDR RAM. Bought myself a motherboard that supported that, and whammo, for the price of a new motherboard I got myself a machine that's more than enough for anything I throw at it.
The "download on any computer" for me is the killer app. I don't game all that much, but my brother does. He got a new computer recently and as I'm the family geek I took the task upon me to configure and install all his stuff. End result: His GTA3 - San Andreas DVD won't install, neither does his The Sims 2 CD. Are they damaged? CRC errors do seem to indicate so, but who knows. It is interesting that the damaged optical media are those needed for gameplay but did work on his old computer. Basically, the "authentication" part stil worked, but installation data was lost.
I opened a ticket with Maxis for The Sims 2, but I don't expect them to help. Most likely they'll say: Buy a new copy. As for GTA3 - San Andreas... I told him to get it on Steam. There is a whole Rockstar Package for less than the original price he paid for GTA3-SA. He also has GTA4, but it didn't work on his old computer. It should now work, but I won't install it from DVD as it is also included in the same pack.
Basically, Steam is the best way to "backup" the games you have the right to play. Sure, they might close shop and my brother would be screwed again. However, with optical media, it seems you're screwed too.
So as long as Steam is up and running and I can play the games I paid for... I'm fine with it. The DRM doesn't seem that draconian to me. Most likely, I say that because I've never run into it. I'll probably will scream murder when I do.
Apple? A big name? In the times of the first gen iPod? That's revisionist history. Yes, Apple was known by geeks, but I assure you that I had talked to many people in that period about getting an Apple Computer. They had vaguely heard about it, but wouldn't know to get one if they wanted one.
Today, Apple is a big name. To the extent that people tend to forget they have an Apple product. Overheard at my wifes-family Chistmas party: Person A:"Say, iPhone, is that the brand?". Person B: "Yes, I think so.".... Me: "No, the brand is Apple and the iPhone is something like a model name". Them: "Glazy eyes". (Of course, the last part may be due to the copious amount of wine that flew.
Yeah, according to the definition I don't have "broadband" (read "high speed Internet", because that's what they mean). I have 5Mbps downstream and 512kbps upstream. It costs me 33.80€/month and fulfils my needs perfectly well. Heck, back when they started to roll out ADSL in my country it was 256kbps/64kbps and that was already the greatest thing since sliced bread (compared to ISDN, and per minute costs)
This is just a change of definition, which means nothing about actual usability about Internet connections throughout the US.
Re:That's one heck of a "long goodbye"
on
Goodbye, VGA
·
· Score: 1
I have bought graphics cards recently, I even found the adapters you describe in the dumpster. However, what you describe is the ones you attach to a DVI video card, and give you VGA output to connect to a VGA monitor.
Those are very common.... What I was talking about is a convertor that you plug in a VGA video card (example: your typical laptop...) and converts it to be used by a DVI monitor.
I hope you see the difference, there...
Re:That's one heck of a "long goodbye"
on
Goodbye, VGA
·
· Score: 1
Interesting. I stand corrected. I never had seen any, but a search on newegg gave me this. Thanks...
That's one heck of a "long goodbye"
on
Goodbye, VGA
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Oh, I wouldn't say goodbye just yet.... 2015 is still a long way to go. Recently, the monitor at my parents failed (a 2 or 3 year old 1280x1024 LCD panel... All CRTs before that lasted way longer. This LCD craze does have its downsides). Their computer has an old GeForce 4 MX 4400 or so with only a VGA port. I went to a local electronics shop and found a 23" Full HD LCD panel for an incredible 149€. I bought it, but then I got worried. Wait, the box doesn't mention VGA at all only DVI. I was a bit scared I'd have to upgrade to DVI, not that it matters, I have tons of older video cards with DVI so it would just have been a bit extra work.
Turned out that when I opened the box, only a VGA cable was included. DVI connector was there, and I'm pretty sure that it would work. For me it was ideal, for someone planning to connect to a DVI-only machine would probably have needed to go back to buy a cable.
Also keep in mind that a lot of laptops only have VGA. As far as I know there are no VGA-DVI adapters (DVI-VGA does exist). Since these days 5 year old computers and older fullfil the need of most computer users, don't expect VGA monitors to disappear soon. Companies will cater the needs of those "left behind".
DisplayPort? Haven't even seen a computer having that by default... Macs perhaps? I don't know, we only have a iMac and since the monitor is built-in, I didn't bother looking for display connectors.
No, wait... I think my fathers new Alienware laptop has a displayport. Totally forgot about that. It's less than a year old though.
You'd be surprised... Recently I installed Joomla for someone, and they insisted on having FTP. Apparently FTP support is built-in to Joomla (I know not much about Joomla). I said "simply use sftp", but that was not acceptable. I did restrict the FTP server to trusted IP addresses though.
There is the price, but then there is the horrible Ribbon interface. I have yet to meet someone IRL who *really* likes it. I recently installed Microsoft Office 2010 to recover emails from a corrupted system (Needed to open PST files, copied the mails to an IMAP server. No more Office needed... That what Trial Versions are great for!). Frankly, it comes over even more toyish, more "Please treat me as a dumb user". It's aggravating.
Interestingly, when installing 2010, it asked me whether I wanted to enable OpenDocument formats. I was torougly surprised by that. That's another admittance of Microsoft that OpenOffice is a treath.
It is expected that the future Soekris boards will have 1.6GHz Atom CPUs. I also have had (normal) boards that work just fine without a graphics card, if the BIOS supports redirection to serial.
AMD have no high end, with no high end they cannot survive because today's high end is tomorrow's mid range.
I would agree, 5 to 10 years ago. Alas, I don't anymore. We are at a performance plateau, where the user (normal, we're not talking special-case) can be perfectly happy with 5 year old machines (I'm a dumpster diver, good P-IV or AMD XP machines can be found there). Any machine in the 2.0GHz range (give or take) will cover the needs of users.
CPU makers are at the point where people who need more CPU power will have to be willing to pay for it. All the rest can go with whatever is cheapest. Intel knows this, hence the Atom. I built an Atom desktop based on the D410PT motherboard for my mother in law running Ubuntu 10.04. At no point performance has been a problem.
Tomorrows "desktop" CPUs won't be the "top-of-the-line" of today. They will be the scaled-down, power-efficient CPUs that won't deliver as much power, but enough for the end-user. All other will have to pay premium to get more power.
Unless we suddenly get a big craving for extra CPU power, that's how it's going to go.
It's hard out there for a pimp, when pimping cpu's to farmville players.
Never played FarmVille, eh? It's unbearable on an AMD Turion X2 (Machine is from 2007, runs Linux) and just okay on a Core i7 iMac. Perhaps it's better on the Windows platform, but FarmVille (or Flash, or both) is a pure CPU hog.
Where in a rackmount in a datacenter? Ooooh, you mean "out of sight".
That said, I'd like to have a bluetooth remote for my (future) HTPC... Can you get anything like it, I searched a bit but didn't find anything. Most seems to be infra-red and using a cellphone isn't ideal.
Slashdot Mirror
So, I'm just imagining running a 330 and D510 with a 64-bit operating system? Now, of course, you can't find Atom motherboards that support more than 4GB RAM and the two I run have only 4GB RAM and some of it is "stolen" by the graphics card.
From what I understood, Atoms can't address more than 4GB though, but running 64-bit instructions is no problem.
Apart from that: yes, modern Atom CPUs do run 64-bit operating systems.
Hehe, good point. There is probably some truth to it, but not as much as you'd like. While my life before getting married was pretty much in geek-wonderland-a-core-i7-is-not-enough, I ended up getting to know a whole new world. A world where people aren't poor, but their computers are in the range of Intel P-IV / AMD Athlon XP machines in the 2.0GHz range with 512MB to 1GB RAM and they do just fine. The computer does the (limited) task they demand from it and that's it.
If you think that most people -who can afford it- have recent computers, you're into some big surprise. For many people this is a tool and won't replace it until it breaks and/or doesn't do what they want. I can fully understand them: I still have my CRT TV because I will not replace it before it breaks. Does the job, and it's money wasted to replace it with some LCD/Plasma as it's only used to watch TV Programmes anyway (rarely a DVD... I don't even have a Blue-Ray. The only game console I own is a PS2 and that's SD).
I personally, wouldn't be surprised if the average home actually uses a 4-5 year old computer as their primary machine.
It was on sale... It was marked Vista-Ready and came with Windows XP MCE. This was before everyone knew that Vista would be a dud. Since it came with XP, it had to go as it was considered obsolete. It was one of those laptops with "Vista Capable" stickers, by the way. Which meant no aero, which meant to the end-user "Wait, I don't get the full Vista". My 2007 laptop has run Linux since the beginning and never made a problem. I'm typing on it right now, thank you very much.
Apart from that, I ran Vista on a 4GB RAM machine and it was awful. Felt slower than my P-IV 2.6GHz/2GB RAM on XP SP2 back then. I really don't believe your Vista machine with 0.5GB RAM worked fine at all, given that XP SP3 is just barely usable as a office computer with 0.5GB RAM.
Aren't you contradicting yourself a bit? Those 3-5 year old computer have 1GB or 2GB RAM already and they are being sufficient. I have a laptop, bought in January 2007, so it's 4 years old. I came with 1GB RAM, it now has 2GB RAM because it was a cheap upgrade. It was a laptop on sale because it couldn't reach Vistas requirements, so back then 1GB wasn't all that hot either. So, unless you meant those "demanding users", for a normal user 1GB is enough, 2GB better.. Beyond that not so much.
I do advocate to take the most RAM you can afford for any machine you have and I have done this since at least 2005. My wifes new iMac has 16GB RAM. Does she need it? No... But the day she thinks it's too slow, I can just say... "Sorry, it's already maxed out, I can't do anything". It gives a bit more headroom, but I've never seen it use more than 4GB (which is what it came with). I'd call it "anti-bitching-insurance". ;-)
Same thing with my brothers new computer: got 16GB for it. It was two 8GB kits at 75€ or so... Not exactly expensive.
Will they use it? My wife definitely not. My brother may or may not benefit from it given he plays a lot of games.
For me? I live on what comes out of the dumpsters and buy left and right stuff to upgrade. Got a AMD Athlon 64 X2 socket 939 somewhere and 4 sticks of 1GB DDR RAM. Bought myself a motherboard that supported that, and whammo, for the price of a new motherboard I got myself a machine that's more than enough for anything I throw at it.
The "download on any computer" for me is the killer app. I don't game all that much, but my brother does. He got a new computer recently and as I'm the family geek I took the task upon me to configure and install all his stuff. End result: His GTA3 - San Andreas DVD won't install, neither does his The Sims 2 CD. Are they damaged? CRC errors do seem to indicate so, but who knows. It is interesting that the damaged optical media are those needed for gameplay but did work on his old computer. Basically, the "authentication" part stil worked, but installation data was lost.
I opened a ticket with Maxis for The Sims 2, but I don't expect them to help. Most likely they'll say: Buy a new copy. As for GTA3 - San Andreas... I told him to get it on Steam. There is a whole Rockstar Package for less than the original price he paid for GTA3-SA. He also has GTA4, but it didn't work on his old computer. It should now work, but I won't install it from DVD as it is also included in the same pack.
Basically, Steam is the best way to "backup" the games you have the right to play. Sure, they might close shop and my brother would be screwed again. However, with optical media, it seems you're screwed too.
So as long as Steam is up and running and I can play the games I paid for... I'm fine with it. The DRM doesn't seem that draconian to me. Most likely, I say that because I've never run into it. I'll probably will scream murder when I do.
Apple? A big name? In the times of the first gen iPod? That's revisionist history. Yes, Apple was known by geeks, but I assure you that I had talked to many people in that period about getting an Apple Computer. They had vaguely heard about it, but wouldn't know to get one if they wanted one.
Today, Apple is a big name. To the extent that people tend to forget they have an Apple product. Overheard at my wifes-family Chistmas party: Person A:"Say, iPhone, is that the brand?". Person B: "Yes, I think so.".... Me: "No, the brand is Apple and the iPhone is something like a model name". Them: "Glazy eyes". (Of course, the last part may be due to the copious amount of wine that flew.
Yeah, according to the definition I don't have "broadband" (read "high speed Internet", because that's what they mean). I have 5Mbps downstream and 512kbps upstream. It costs me 33.80€/month and fulfils my needs perfectly well. Heck, back when they started to roll out ADSL in my country it was 256kbps/64kbps and that was already the greatest thing since sliced bread (compared to ISDN, and per minute costs)
This is just a change of definition, which means nothing about actual usability about Internet connections throughout the US.
I have bought graphics cards recently, I even found the adapters you describe in the dumpster. However, what you describe is the ones you attach to a DVI video card, and give you VGA output to connect to a VGA monitor.
Those are very common.... What I was talking about is a convertor that you plug in a VGA video card (example: your typical laptop...) and converts it to be used by a DVI monitor.
I hope you see the difference, there...
Interesting. I stand corrected. I never had seen any, but a search on newegg gave me this. Thanks...
Oh, I wouldn't say goodbye just yet.... 2015 is still a long way to go. Recently, the monitor at my parents failed (a 2 or 3 year old 1280x1024 LCD panel... All CRTs before that lasted way longer. This LCD craze does have its downsides). Their computer has an old GeForce 4 MX 4400 or so with only a VGA port. I went to a local electronics shop and found a 23" Full HD LCD panel for an incredible 149€. I bought it, but then I got worried. Wait, the box doesn't mention VGA at all only DVI. I was a bit scared I'd have to upgrade to DVI, not that it matters, I have tons of older video cards with DVI so it would just have been a bit extra work.
Turned out that when I opened the box, only a VGA cable was included. DVI connector was there, and I'm pretty sure that it would work. For me it was ideal, for someone planning to connect to a DVI-only machine would probably have needed to go back to buy a cable.
Also keep in mind that a lot of laptops only have VGA. As far as I know there are no VGA-DVI adapters (DVI-VGA does exist). Since these days 5 year old computers and older fullfil the need of most computer users, don't expect VGA monitors to disappear soon. Companies will cater the needs of those "left behind".
DisplayPort? Haven't even seen a computer having that by default... Macs perhaps? I don't know, we only have a iMac and since the monitor is built-in, I didn't bother looking for display connectors.
No, wait... I think my fathers new Alienware laptop has a displayport. Totally forgot about that. It's less than a year old though.
Yes, but I expected it to do so, making the addition a joke on it's own ;-)
Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. No shit? That was the point....
Says the guy who calls himself "Mr. DOS" ;-)
Apparently... Guess this is a case of "I know this tool, and I'll use it".
You'd be surprised... Recently I installed Joomla for someone, and they insisted on having FTP. Apparently FTP support is built-in to Joomla (I know not much about Joomla). I said "simply use sftp", but that was not acceptable. I did restrict the FTP server to trusted IP addresses though.
True, but keep in mind that only a privileged user would be able to install anything that has such a payload. So... Not a problem.
He's talking about OpenSolaris... The open source branch. He's right about that, it's effectively been killed.
Wasn't Oracle going to kill all good stuff from Sun according to the slashdot hivemind?
There is the price, but then there is the horrible Ribbon interface. I have yet to meet someone IRL who *really* likes it. I recently installed Microsoft Office 2010 to recover emails from a corrupted system (Needed to open PST files, copied the mails to an IMAP server. No more Office needed... That what Trial Versions are great for!). Frankly, it comes over even more toyish, more "Please treat me as a dumb user". It's aggravating.
Interestingly, when installing 2010, it asked me whether I wanted to enable OpenDocument formats. I was torougly surprised by that. That's another admittance of Microsoft that OpenOffice is a treath.
It is expected that the future Soekris boards will have 1.6GHz Atom CPUs. I also have had (normal) boards that work just fine without a graphics card, if the BIOS supports redirection to serial.
As others have said, Linux will work with a serial console and that's really all you need if you're CLI based.
I would agree, 5 to 10 years ago. Alas, I don't anymore. We are at a performance plateau, where the user (normal, we're not talking special-case) can be perfectly happy with 5 year old machines (I'm a dumpster diver, good P-IV or AMD XP machines can be found there). Any machine in the 2.0GHz range (give or take) will cover the needs of users.
CPU makers are at the point where people who need more CPU power will have to be willing to pay for it. All the rest can go with whatever is cheapest. Intel knows this, hence the Atom. I built an Atom desktop based on the D410PT motherboard for my mother in law running Ubuntu 10.04. At no point performance has been a problem.
Tomorrows "desktop" CPUs won't be the "top-of-the-line" of today. They will be the scaled-down, power-efficient CPUs that won't deliver as much power, but enough for the end-user. All other will have to pay premium to get more power.
Unless we suddenly get a big craving for extra CPU power, that's how it's going to go.
Never played FarmVille, eh? It's unbearable on an AMD Turion X2 (Machine is from 2007, runs Linux) and just okay on a Core i7 iMac. Perhaps it's better on the Windows platform, but FarmVille (or Flash, or both) is a pure CPU hog.
Yes, where is the meat actually... Not in the linked "articles". So there is a problem? Sure, very possible, but I'd like some explanations.
Where in a rackmount in a datacenter? Ooooh, you mean "out of sight".
That said, I'd like to have a bluetooth remote for my (future) HTPC... Can you get anything like it, I searched a bit but didn't find anything. Most seems to be infra-red and using a cellphone isn't ideal.