Hrm, okay, he's terribly misinformed, ignorant, illogical, etc.
That's all well and good, but could you explain what specifically you thought was so completely wrong?
What was wrong with the topic/problem? A lot of people have had criticisms of the Aqua GUI - even (perhaps especially) veteran Mac users.
What was wrong with the conclusion? It didn't sound to me like he laid a death sentence on Apple, he simply said it could become their 'New Coke'. Seems possible to me, whether or not it is likely.
I tend to think that if Apple doesn't do it themselves, there will be a Kaleidoscope clone (or native Kaleidoscope itself) for OSX. Greg Landweber has an enormous amount of energy...
1. Pay Xerox in the form of Apple stock. 2. Take a few notes on what Xerox has done. No code. 3. Mix in a large number of ideas by Jef Raskin and others. 4. Develop the Lisa/Mac. 5. Bill Gates takes a look, and... 6. The rest is history.
It's not hard, if the OS is designed with a single button in mind. You just weren't used to it.
I agree 100% with the round mouse thing. I think Apple was aiming toward little kids (which seem to be able to use it, due to its size), but they should never have shipped it with their higher end systems. Same with the keyboard.
For the record, I prefer 2 button mice, which work just fine on the Mac (you can simulate a second button on later revs of the OS by holding down control and clicking on the a file - contextual menus). On the other hand, I have been forced to support Windows users confused by the second button, so they may have a point.
In the end, it doesn't cost much to buy a better mouse. Apple should make it a build to order option, and support both equally.
Are you sure it's just a theme? I tend to think so given the speed Apple 'dropped' the new appearance in at the last moment, but they have not commented on this publically as far a I know, and Apple's previous position on themes in the past has been somewhat negative (ie. we were supposed to have theme support in 8.5, but they pulled back).
Usability is the big concern, I think. The look of the classic Mac UI isn't what set it apart from the crowd, it's the usability factors.
Unfortunately I have yet to use any of the DP's, but will probably work with DP3 at some point after its release.
I'm on a G3/Lombard myself, which isn't the fastest thing around, but not the slowest either. Hopefully it'll be okay.
I can't imagine Apple putting those things in there without them being disableable. If they don't, someone will - it didn't take long for someone to hack out the zoom rects in the current MacOS.
It's supposed to be released late this month. I'm not too confident about that, but we'll see. From there, I think we'll have a better idea. It ran very very fast at the keynote, but Jobs was probably using a top of the line G4...
The dock is actually from NeXTStep/OpenStep, which Apple owns the rights to outright. If anyone is ripping anyone off, it's Windows ripping off NeXTStep (not a farfetched idea when you consider who made Windows).
As for the cycles, we'll see. Supposedly Quartz is very very fast, but we'll have to wait and see.
Actually, he's partially right. Within the last few years - around the release of MacOS 8.1 I believe - Apple began transitioning people over to the HFS Extended (HFS+) file system. HFS+ does indeed support long (at least 255 character) file names.
However, the functionality is not apparent in the current MacOS. I guess Apple figured poorly coded apps might break, and there isn't really a good way to display filenames in the Finder with that long of names (it looks a bit unwieldly).
My understanding is that long filenames work just fine in OSX.
...it has a pretty distinct OpenStep/NeXTStep focus, but there are some classic MacOS users there as well. Overall there are a lot of good ideas being floated around there, as well as a few bad ones, but the people are generally intelligent enough to avoid 'MacOS X rulez/sucks' messages.
Much better than Apple Insider, which appears to be more or less frequented by bored 14 year olds (the site itself is pretty decent though).
Actually, there are a large number of Mac users (myself included) who have some reservations with the new UI. It's hard to tell until we actually get to sit down with it, though.
I'm cautiously optimistic, but there are a number of people who have had major issues with what Apple has shown so far. Tog, who worked at Apple for 14 years, is one of them. I personally think Apple threw the screenshots out for public consumption as a sort of trial balloon - they've done this before. Given that there are 5-6 months until release, they've got time to make the kind of minor changes people are advocating.
Anyhow, please don't stereotype Mac users. We don't all agree with everything Apple does, and aren't nearly as blind/conformist as you think we are (witness the deafening roar of bitching Mac users erupted in when QuickTime 4 was released).
--- So, whether you like it or not, as a MS employee you implicitly share the sentiments of B.G.
If you don't agree with your companies ideals, then why work there? ---
This is untrue. Being one who agrees with the use of capitalism as a means to distribute software and turn a profit does not mean that you cannot agree with at least some of the ideas of the free software community. They are not at all mutually exclusive.
Most people do not consider access to code a 'right', but many can understand the more tangible benefits to open-source software. Scalability, robustness, and lack of marketting influence.
However, it's not hard to find problems as well. Lack of funding for certain things developers can't do being the biggest: licensing of codecs (QuickTime anyone?), marketting, and my favorite: usability testing. There are number of poorly thought out user interfaces in free software projects. This requires a great deal of testing, a scientific process which takes some cash.
Anyhow, there are benefits to each. While I don't agree with HOW Microsoft abuses capitalism in what they do, there are a number of companies that are pretty ethical, and have damn good software.
"This car is nice, but... It looks just like the other one over there."
"Oh, no, ignore that. They copied our design. Besides, our car NEVER crashes, and is much easier to use. Just look at this interior, the seats, the wheel. That one is obviously a knock-off."
"Are you sure? I thought it came out in 1984? I heard your model didn't come out until a few years..."
"HEY! Look at this, this car's radio is really great. It works best with the MS Radio station standard - a vast improvement on the current, old standard. No other player can do the things ours can."
"Really? I didn't know there was such thing as MS Radio"
"There isn't. We're working on that."
"Oh, well... Can I replace it with another radio?"
"Sorry, you can't remove the radio. It's an integral part of the vehicle. We make a similar radio for a couple of other kinds of cars, but in the Super Deluxe car it must stay."
"Oh"
"We'd help you remove it, but really, it will break everything. You see, the structure of the car is built around it. Of course, this was done purely by accident - we didn't at all think it'd be a good idea to design a way for other radios to be used as well. Oh well, it's too late now."
"Yeah, I guess."
"Anyhow, here are your keys. Please enjoy your drive home. While you're at it, here's $40. Could you write a nice little letter to the editor about how much you like our cars? Thanks!"
"By the way, the swelling should go down in a few days. A soft cushion and some Preperation H, and you'll be good as new. I hope it was as good for you as it was for me - we sure do love to innovate!"
Slashdot Mirror
Hrm, okay, he's terribly misinformed, ignorant, illogical, etc.
That's all well and good, but could you explain what specifically you thought was so completely wrong?
What was wrong with the topic/problem? A lot of people have had criticisms of the Aqua GUI - even (perhaps especially) veteran Mac users.
What was wrong with the conclusion? It didn't sound to me like he laid a death sentence on Apple, he simply said it could become their 'New Coke'. Seems possible to me, whether or not it is likely.
So, what's the problem?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
I tend to think that if Apple doesn't do it themselves, there will be a Kaleidoscope clone (or native Kaleidoscope itself) for OSX. Greg Landweber has an enormous amount of energy...
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Actually, it's more like this:
1. Pay Xerox in the form of Apple stock.
2. Take a few notes on what Xerox has done. No code.
3. Mix in a large number of ideas by Jef Raskin and others.
4. Develop the Lisa/Mac.
5. Bill Gates takes a look, and...
6. The rest is history.
Hope that clears things up a little more.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
: is used as a seperator for path names.
On the plus side, this allows you to use just about any other character. Backslashes, forward slashes, dashes, asterisks, spaces, percent signs, etc.
Before URLs became commonplace, colons weren't terribly common when you think about it.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
It's not hard, if the OS is designed with a single button in mind. You just weren't used to it.
I agree 100% with the round mouse thing. I think Apple was aiming toward little kids (which seem to be able to use it, due to its size), but they should never have shipped it with their higher end systems. Same with the keyboard.
For the record, I prefer 2 button mice, which work just fine on the Mac (you can simulate a second button on later revs of the OS by holding down control and clicking on the a file - contextual menus). On the other hand, I have been forced to support Windows users confused by the second button, so they may have a point.
In the end, it doesn't cost much to buy a better mouse. Apple should make it a build to order option, and support both equally.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Are you sure it's just a theme? I tend to think so given the speed Apple 'dropped' the new appearance in at the last moment, but they have not commented on this publically as far a I know, and Apple's previous position on themes in the past has been somewhat negative (ie. we were supposed to have theme support in 8.5, but they pulled back).
Usability is the big concern, I think. The look of the classic Mac UI isn't what set it apart from the crowd, it's the usability factors.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Unfortunately I have yet to use any of the DP's, but will probably work with DP3 at some point after its release.
I'm on a G3/Lombard myself, which isn't the fastest thing around, but not the slowest either. Hopefully it'll be okay.
I can't imagine Apple putting those things in there without them being disableable. If they don't, someone will - it didn't take long for someone to hack out the zoom rects in the current MacOS.
It's supposed to be released late this month. I'm not too confident about that, but we'll see. From there, I think we'll have a better idea. It ran very very fast at the keynote, but Jobs was probably using a top of the line G4...
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
The dock is actually from NeXTStep/OpenStep, which Apple owns the rights to outright. If anyone is ripping anyone off, it's Windows ripping off NeXTStep (not a farfetched idea when you consider who made Windows).
As for the cycles, we'll see. Supposedly Quartz is very very fast, but we'll have to wait and see.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
You do realize that Tog was an Apple employee for 14 years, right?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Xerox was paid by Apple in the form of stock options for what Apple gained by visiting their office.
Here's an account by Jef Raskin, one of the original Mac developers (much of the Mac's concepts came from his research from much earlier).
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Actually, he's partially right. Within the last few years - around the release of MacOS 8.1 I believe - Apple began transitioning people over to the HFS Extended (HFS+) file system. HFS+ does indeed support long (at least 255 character) file names.
However, the functionality is not apparent in the current MacOS. I guess Apple figured poorly coded apps might break, and there isn't really a good way to display filenames in the Finder with that long of names (it looks a bit unwieldly).
My understanding is that long filenames work just fine in OSX.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Perhaps he didn't want to provide a link to every single window manager in existance, and simply linked to the most visible?
Note the 's' at the end of 'modern window managers'. I think he knows that there are more than one.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
D'oh. Bad link. Sorry about that.
Try this instead.
http://www.omnigroup.c om/community/mailinglists/macosx-talk/
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Probably the best place to talk to knowledgeable users is here:
http://www.omnigroup.c om/community/mailinglists/macosx-talk/
...it has a pretty distinct OpenStep/NeXTStep focus, but there are some classic MacOS users there as well. Overall there are a lot of good ideas being floated around there, as well as a few bad ones, but the people are generally intelligent enough to avoid 'MacOS X rulez/sucks' messages.
Much better than Apple Insider, which appears to be more or less frequented by bored 14 year olds (the site itself is pretty decent though).
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Actually, there are a large number of Mac users (myself included) who have some reservations with the new UI. It's hard to tell until we actually get to sit down with it, though.
I'm cautiously optimistic, but there are a number of people who have had major issues with what Apple has shown so far. Tog, who worked at Apple for 14 years, is one of them. I personally think Apple threw the screenshots out for public consumption as a sort of trial balloon - they've done this before. Given that there are 5-6 months until release, they've got time to make the kind of minor changes people are advocating.
Anyhow, please don't stereotype Mac users. We don't all agree with everything Apple does, and aren't nearly as blind/conformist as you think we are (witness the deafening roar of bitching Mac users erupted in when QuickTime 4 was released).
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
I am. :>
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Why was this labeled flamebait?
Mark it up as informative. It's perfectly valid.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Um, okay... That's fine. Different things for different people I guess.
But - what's a panguine?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Don't worry. It HAS to be the product of some judicious Photoshop work.
At least, I hope so...
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
http://www.apple.com/imac
f ree.html
Smell: Tangerine, Blueberry, Grape, Lime, or Strawberry. Take your pick.
http://127.0.0.1
Smell: Me. Eww?
http://www.microsoft.com
Smell: Decaying, rotting meat - as found near most large predatory creatures.
http://www.amiga.com/
Smell: None at all!
http://www.wto.org/
Smell: Is that... Tear gas?
http://www.windows2000test.com
Smell: A very large foot, immersed in a very large mouth.
http://www.be.com/press/pressreleases/00-01-18_
Smell: The persperation of desperation.
http://www.starwars.com
Smell: A big pile of cash.
http://www.linuxone.net
Smell: Vaguely rodent-like?
http://www.apple.com
Smell: A (somewhat spritely) reanimated corpse.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/
Smell: I can't tell, I'm still holding my nose. You figure it out.
http://www.digiscents.com
Smell: Vaporware (do you _really_ think this will take off?).
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
---
So, whether you like it or not, as a MS employee you implicitly share the sentiments of B.G.
If you don't agree with your companies ideals, then why work there?
---
This is untrue. Being one who agrees with the use of capitalism as a means to distribute software and turn a profit does not mean that you cannot agree with at least some of the ideas of the free software community. They are not at all mutually exclusive.
Most people do not consider access to code a 'right', but many can understand the more tangible benefits to open-source software. Scalability, robustness, and lack of marketting influence.
However, it's not hard to find problems as well. Lack of funding for certain things developers can't do being the biggest: licensing of codecs (QuickTime anyone?), marketting, and my favorite: usability testing. There are number of poorly thought out user interfaces in free software projects. This requires a great deal of testing, a scientific process which takes some cash.
Anyhow, there are benefits to each. While I don't agree with HOW Microsoft abuses capitalism in what they do, there are a number of companies that are pretty ethical, and have damn good software.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
By chance, are you referring to LinuxOne - NOT LinuxCare?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Interesting argument. I can see it now:
"This car is nice, but... It looks just like the other one over there."
"Oh, no, ignore that. They copied our design. Besides, our car NEVER crashes, and is much easier to use. Just look at this interior, the seats, the wheel. That one is obviously a knock-off."
"Are you sure? I thought it came out in 1984? I heard your model didn't come out until a few years..."
"HEY! Look at this, this car's radio is really great. It works best with the MS Radio station standard - a vast improvement on the current, old standard. No other player can do the things ours can."
"Really? I didn't know there was such thing as MS Radio"
"There isn't. We're working on that."
"Oh, well... Can I replace it with another radio?"
"Sorry, you can't remove the radio. It's an integral part of the vehicle. We make a similar radio for a couple of other kinds of cars, but in the Super Deluxe car it must stay."
"Oh"
"We'd help you remove it, but really, it will break everything. You see, the structure of the car is built around it. Of course, this was done purely by accident - we didn't at all think it'd be a good idea to design a way for other radios to be used as well. Oh well, it's too late now."
"Yeah, I guess."
"Anyhow, here are your keys. Please enjoy your drive home. While you're at it, here's $40. Could you write a nice little letter to the editor about how much you like our cars? Thanks!"
"By the way, the swelling should go down in a few days. A soft cushion and some Preperation H, and you'll be good as new. I hope it was as good for you as it was for me - we sure do love to innovate!"
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Do they have a higher voltage than, say, my Powerbook G3 or PowerTower Pro?
If the people here can poke around in their own boxen without worry, what's the problem with a video game console (assuming it's not plugged in)?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
I hate to say this, but this is very very old. As in, May of '98.
"Last Updated: 5.30.98"
I'm assuming he hasn't gotten very far. Oh well.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)