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Bruce Perens IRC Q&A Tonight
TheLivng1 writes "Bruce Perens will on the NewNet network (irc.newnet.net) Sunday, January 23rd at 6p Pacific/9p Eastern in #astepcloser." Bruce and I have our differences, but he's a good guy and worth meeting. I've never had a conversation with Bruce that I didn't enjoy. I urge anyone who only knows Bruce from his Slashdot posts or by reputation to "tune in" tonight and get better acquainted with him via IRC.
Imagine a beowulf cluster of these guys.
First post??
I forgot who I was talking about.
I *DO* like Bruce Perens.
It's that Tom Christianson fellow I don't like. I REALLY don't like him. Bruce Perens, OTOH, I'm cool with.
SORRY BRUCE! Can you please forgive me? I actually think you're really cool. I like reading your stuff. It's that Tom Christianson fellow I hate. Well, I don't hate the PERSON, but I hate what he does.
I don't live there, and thus have no need to learn those "basic things" like US timezones or geography...
I'm really a bit amused by this. Have you ever considered that the majority of the world's population lives outside of GMT and really doesn't care to learn the GMT timezone?
US Eastern and GMT are the two most common, universal time zones used in the world. If you don't know them, it's YOUR foot you're shooting.
So? I don't live in England but if somebody says noon GMT I know it's 7am local. Most internet users are American. Most time zone references are to GMT or to an American time zone. If you don't like that, tough titties.
Hello? Maybe you should remember that GMT is really just *one* time zone in the world, and UTC is just *one* time zone in the world, and England is only *one* country in the world.
I don't live there, and thus have no need to learn those "basic things" like GMT timezones or geography.
But I do anyway, out of courtesy. Looks like *YOU'RE* the one not willing to learn the two (or three) most commonly used, most important, most universal time zones in the world, GMT, US Eastern, and UTC.
If you're going to curse, at least curse like an ADULT.
"tough titties" is so Junior High.
The word "why?" is moderated down as "troll." Hmm... gee. Wow. That's interesting.
Well, I'm the original poster. And as I already stated, I *DO* like Bruce Perens. I feel REALLY bad about the error I made. I just got Mr. Perens confused with someone else. I'll buy him a nice gift or something.
I apologize for the error.
BRUCE PERENS ROXERS MY BOXERS.
Are you sure about that? Are all those countries, like, out west or something? My friend met a foreigner who was like from Seattle I think. They speak Deutsh or Hispaniola or something out there, too. Cool.
Please die4
Utter crap. US Eastern is a "standard" in the US and nowhere else.
Yeah, he's mostly famous for several gaffs in connection with the Debian distribution or debian mailing-lists. Probably what you have in mind is the recent Corel gaff. Further in the past, Bruce made a rather rude and rough departure from the Debian project.
These days, Bruce is basically marketing himself as an "anti-ESR".
Shit, Roblimo, getting delusions of grandeur or something? I mean, on any reasonable scale where Bruce Perens is a 10, you rank at about minus five ZILLION or something.
Who gives a shit about how you feel about him? Nobody asked for your opinion, and nobody cares.
what about internet time ?
Roblimo knows very well that he trolls. It's all planned, trust me.
...is gay, yes, but there's nothing wrong with that dude.
If you're concerned about netsplits, Mr. Perens as well as the gentleman interviewing will both be on irc.dragondata.com. Perhaps use one server and it will drastically minimize the impact of one, if any. Steve @ irc.newnet.net
As a follow up to my previous article, if you want to cause netsplits, this server list might be useful:
*** irc.chelmsford.com hub.stinger.org 3 P9 Chelmsford On-Line
*** irc.rma.edu hub.dragondata.com 2 P9 RMA On-Line
*** irc.away.net irc.dragondata.com 1 P9 Edmonton, Alberta, CA
*** irc.kbnet.org hub.eskimo.com 3 P9 It's not rocket science folks!
*** irc.bootsector.org hub.stinger.org 3 P9 Stoners IRC Server
*** irc.keytech.com hub.aohell.org 5 P9 just another bus stop on the internet highway
*** irc.aye.net matrix.tlh.fdt.net 4 P9 Aye Net's own New Net server
*** renegade.midv.net hub.aohell.org 5 P9 Anal - Pertaining to, or situated near, the anus
*** irc.qpalzm.com matrix.tlh.fdt.net 4 P9 We Got Milk!
*** irc.gry.DE hub.aohell.org 5 P9 i-dea Clientserver/Hub Germany
*** irc.freshworld.de hub.aohell.org 5 P9 freshworld pleasure community [www.freshworld.de]
*** irc.oasis-net.net hub.aohell.org 5 P9 NewNet UK Server - da box dat rox around da clock
*** irc.uplink.net.nz matrix.tlh.fdt.net 4 P9 [210.55.105.248] New Zealand's NewNet Uplink!
*** irc.gravestone.net matrix.tlh.fdt.net 4 P9 We have such sights to show you
*** irc.Neticus.COM hub.stinger.org 3 P9 NewNet's Dual T3 Server
*** irc.cybertrails.com matrix.tlh.fdt.net 4 P9 Cybertrails' Main IRC Client Server
*** irc.aohell.org hub.aohell.org 5 P9 NewNET's IRCD From HELL
*** irc.jaxn.com hub.aohell.org 5 P9 -Jaxn IRC- What would you like to smoke today?
*** hub.aohell.org matrix.tlh.fdt.net 4 P9 NewNET's HUB From HELL-2
*** irc.busprod.com hub.stinger.org 3 P9 Got Speed? if not come to Busprod
*** irc.fsn.net matrix.tlh.fdt.net 4 P9 Free Sites Network IRC Server
*** matrix.tlh.fdt.net hub.stinger.org 3 P9 NewNET's HUB From HELL!
*** hub.stinger.org hub.dragondata.com 2 P9 The Stinger Express! www.stinger.org Come surf wit
*** newnet.grolier.fr newnet.telia.NO 3 P9 Le premier Serveur Francais sur NewNet
*** newnet.online.be newnet.telia.NO 3 P9 Online Internet nv/sa
*** irc.kvalito.no newnet.telia.NO 3 P9 [212.71.70.22] Kvalito IT AS
*** newnet.telia.NO hub.dragondata.com 2 P9 Newnet 155mbit/s primary EU HUB
*** services.newnet.net hub.eskimo.com 3 P9 NewNets IRC services
*** irc.eskimo.com hub.eskimo.com 3 P9 Eskimo North -- Seattle, WA USA
*** hub.eskimo.com hub.dragondata.com 2 P9 Eskimo North -- Seattle, WA USA
*** services2.newnet.net irc.dragondata.com 1 P4 Temporary Services
*** security.dragondata.com irc.dragondata.com 1 P4 Network Security
*** hub.dragondata.com irc.dragondata.com 1 P9 Flying Toaster
*** irc.dragondata.com irc.dragondata.com 0 P9 DragonData Internet Services
Why the fuck would you throw him an insult for posting a story about the GPL? For someone who's raised worse controversies before, you're quite a hypocrite.
I'm glad Roblimo stands up for "free speech" when a so-called "open source" advocate such as yourself only want to muzzle people.
A transcript will be posted at: www.astepcloser.com
Utter crap. The United States *IS* a standard on the Internet. Live with it.
You can face that fact, or you can keep whining.
Hmm, I wonder which you'll do.......
What Bruce means is that he called Roblimo a "taxi-driver". yellow car == cab. Get it?
Maybe you like to think so. I guess it helps to keep your self-esteem up or something, even when you know, deep in your bones, that you're nothing but a pack of fucking losers.
Just remember that 99% of the world couldn't give a shit.
What do you want? To be moderated (Score: 5, Funny)? Karma whore.
... cries and moans because he doesn't want to figure out what time it is in the United States.
Sorry, the world isn't going to bend over backward to kiss your ass. Convert your own damn times.
Just remember that 99% of the world couldn't give a shit.
Riiiight. That's why Hindu is the standard language on the internet.
Shut up about technocrat.net (TM) already, nobody's interested.
And, of course, we all know that Americans invented the English language...
Im all Americans decided the word "monkey" really meant "foreigner", the rest of the world's usage of English would soon follow. Monkey.
I read recently that 85% of internet users were American. But Americans are only 4 1/2% of the world's population. Sooo.. even if 99% of the rest of the world couldn't give a shit, they aren't likely to be reading this webpage. An American is. Why do these facts seem to bother you so much? Are you embittered? It's not like internet access is some great mark of superiority.
Why hasn't anybody had fun of this post yet...hmmm??
Yes, I checked out Technocrat.net. It wasn't very interesting. Nice job on the copy-cat design, though.
Perhaps you should learn how to spell first. I don't see many people using "Im" instead of "If".
Kevin, be sure to give us Bruce Perens, Clothed and Unpetrified.
That's it, you won. I'd have to fight for attention with his robot, though.
Well, honestly, I've never figured out why people get so worked up by some of the stories that get posted here. If you arn't interested in obits and Katz, well, don't read 'em ferchrisakes, but the GPL hole story was really pitiful. If published that story in the dead tree press I'd be working a mailroom now.
Whoever approved that piece of ridiculous self serving tripe deserves an insult or two.
What's wrong with driving a yellow car though? And that little checkerboard "racing" stripe is pretty cute.
Alas, the m key isn't even close to the m key, monkey. There is no excuse for me. Thanks for the edification.
or should I say, the f key. Did I take my Ritalin today? Now I'm a monkey, too.
foreign bastard! get the hell out of my country, you monarchist!
WE WANT BRUCE PERENS NAKED AND PETRIFIED!!!!
- Kill the commies!
- Death to the facists!
- More skin on HBO!
Welcome to the funhouse, where time is everlasting, and nothing else is! Welcome to the REAL WORLD, Bruce Perens! Remember: Jesus Saves!
Ask every person on the Internet if he/she knows his/her GMT offset. Note the percentage that do. Call this A.
Ask every person on the Internet if he/she knows his/her US Eastern offset. Note the percentage that do. Call this B.
B > A
B is much, much, greater than A, actually.
Most people on the Internet already know their US Eastern offset but not their GMT offset, so why should the MAJORITY do the work of conforming to the MINORITY, when it would take LESS NET EFFORT for the minority of people on the Internet who don't know their US Eastern offset to just learn it?
I'm insulted that you didn't mention Britney Spears also. Apologize at once.
Those BRITISH people don't have Britney Spears. They closest they have is that "Billie" slut. Come ON, "Billie" is a MALE name, and yet the person is FEMALE. Suble sexual innuendo, I think.
or his sweet love monkey, larry wall
If so, I'm there.
Dude, chill. (It's satire).
Well, you were certainly speaing for me. Amen, sister!!
That's very Bold of you, Mr. Limo.
Fuck you!
you really meant it! you (it) are disgrace to nederlander-speekings everywhere! i spit on your mothers camel! ptthhhb!
but do you?
Robin, when I heard that your cabs were red, I must say that my heart leapt with joy! To know that you, an upstanding Slashdot staffer, was an out-and-out communist, so much that even the cars you drive are red (no doubt to show your support for the Party everywhere you go), well, that feeling simply cannot be reduced to words!
In light of this coming-out, I'd like to personally invite you to help spread our Socialist propaaganda to the unsupecting geeks who read Slashdot. Remember, it is the capitalist dogs we seek to tear us down, so we must fight together, Comrade Miller!
I hope that in your next post, you won't forget to post the number on your union card, as well as the troop number of the boy socuts you work with, as there origanizations are both key in securing a socialist revolution!
Maybe, when I'm in Baltimore, we can join forces, cruise the inner harbor, and blanket it with our propaganda!
Oh, this truly is a great day!
That's what Video4Linux was created for! There's no need to choose between Bruce and Scully, you can enjoy both.
awesome!
1) apt-get install ircii
/help.
2) man irc
3) While in irc, type
That should get you started and be enough for you to start chatting away!
150 out of the 259 people online are Americans.
Live with it, you jealous fuck.
Amen, brother.
Stupidity just stated the reason why EST and CET and all of them suck. Cause they keep on changing.
Do they think we all use DST? Tsk.
It's hard to believe Trepidity's ranting was moderated up.
Yeah, so let's all post some flamebait to eat away moderator points and prevent this.
Yeah, so let's all post some flamebait to eat away moderator points and prevent this.
We should all post some flamebait to eat away moderator points and prevent this.
Utter crap yer self. US Eastern is a standard, period. There isn't a different US Eastern in Bombay, Brisbane, or Berlin than there is in Boston, Baltimore, or the Bronx. Just because the residents of Bombay, Brisbane, and Berlin don't know or care what time it is in New York, New Jersey or Newport News doesn't change what time it is there.
So nyaah.
Dammit, if English was good enough for the people what writ the Bible, it's good enough for me!
Hahahahahahahahaha! This is one of the funniest posts I have seen! Hahahah! You rock! :)
And 149 of 259 people online are retarded.
This is not a coincidence.
> Dammit, if English was good enough for the people what writ the Bible, it's good enough for me!
:-(
...
Huh ?? You really think that the bible was initially written in English ??
Such posts make me think that Americans are far more illiterate than I thought.
Btw, even if I'm not a native English speaker, I think you should write "for the people who wrote the Bible" and not "for the people what writ the Bible", but well, it probably doesn't matter
A for alliteration.
Oooooh that was funny. Of course, Americans are well-known retards. By the way, look sometime at who wins 80% of the nobel prizes in the hard sciences--- Americans, of course, with only 4% of the world's population. It must make you filled with envy that all the best and brightest from your country immigrated to America, leaving just the dregs and mongrels like yourself.
I'd rather enjoy Scully alone, thank you.
this is good coming from a guy who was arrested for assraping ESR. get a life, debian-boy
Try posting something like that here and see what happens:
http://slashdot.org/comm ents.pl?sid=00/01/19/2229221&cid=8
Troll, Offtopic. These people don't want to deal with it.
ahh... Toasty... the guy that can't code worth a crap and is responsible for services crashing all the time. Keep up the "good" work!
So there.
Wait, the US has more than one time zone? So parts of it are always living in the past - like Seattle? Makes sense to me; now I understand why the FSF and W3C are in Boston, while Apple and Microsoft are on the west coast.
I posted some trolls from time to time and even as a troll had some +5 posts and held top of thread a time or two. However, when the feeding stopped, so did I. I now only contribute to the relative content. By supporting, ever so slighly the /. regulars such as N&P, Natalie, Grits, MEEPT and the others, I beleive that this adds to the slashdot culture and brings a little humor to the site.
However, the redundant rantings of attention seekers such as Chile Molesta, The I have a dream guy, and the regular filth at the bottom just needs to be ignored and it will go away. Nothing will kill a troll faster than lack of food. There is no ego value in being ignored.
The former Trollmastah
Hehe good point. But the winner of the Superbowl is world champion in American football. At least we have that.
Because it's filled with laughably pretentious shitheads like you.
Ihave the log right here, continuously updated.
Of course, it was the US that gave us AOL, Jerry Falwell, purple dinosaurs (with brain damage) for children's role models, McDonalds...
Need I go on?
?!?
78KB is 78KB; it doesn't matter whether it's 78KB of text, MP3, pr0n or streaming video - it all takes the same amount of time.
no, text tends to have a lot of white space which for some unknown reason seems to download faster. Try downloading a 1MB file that is all white space some time...
Bitch, you'd be living in mud daub huts, trying to invent a culture better than the one under your fingernails if it wasn't for the US.
It must be awful to hail from a country where the men have no penises and the women have no teeth. Your envy is forgiven.
heh, make sure to drop a line to one of the most prolific and yet pointless trolls ever to grace ./
Name: Craig McPherson
Age: 18
Current location: Fayetteville, Arkansas
Occuption: Student at the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville
Hobbies: Computers in general, Linux
AIM: cmcpher476
ICQ: 10262746
IRC: nick Craig on SandNet - #ASFR, Craig476 on DalNET - #chabert, Craig476 on EFNet - #distributed or #romcoders
EMail:
bigmac@itookmyprozac.com
craig@laceyonline.com
cmcpher@ipa.net
check this to see why he is being fingered as the naked and petrified poster.
Someone moderate this person down please. I don't need pictures of human waste 5 minutes after waking up.
$10 says this dude is an oper on newnet
Dear Pernes,
I would assume that it would have been better if you brought this Interview into OPN, After all that's where Debian is based and that's where we've seen you hang around the most. Doesnt linux.com forward ppl there as well?
#debian and #linpeople are based on OPN
OPN is currently the most respectable network out there. I am suprised that you decided to grant an interview on such a network as the one you used.
What tipped you off? Was it: i also have a server on NewNet and the machine has never had and problems from the newnet ircd at all by chance?
It's not at all hard to remember that the US Eastern time zone is GMT -0500. It's one of the two most commonly-used time zones in the world, so you SHOULD know it.
Now, as to the other time zones in the US: you should know that the US is four time-zones wide. Basic geography will tell you that Pacific is the westernmost, and common sense tells you that Eastern is the easternmost. A little more geography knowledge, or a glance at a map, will tell you that Mountain is immediately east of Pacific, which leaves Central to be immediately west of Eastern.
Therefore, east to west:
Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific.
You already memorized that Eastern is GMT-0500 (right), therefore you can easily work out the offsets of the rest of them.
Not a problem!
uh, thats not by choice. we just dont filter. - windex, ircop @ irc.busprod.com (on newnet, thank you)
But we all have our flaws; I have mine, you have yours, and since we're both trying to achieve many of the same long-term goals, I have nothing against you and wish you well in every way. Why, I even read TECHNOCRAT.NET at least two or three times every week -- and enjoy it! (Free plug!)
And so, since I'm a "don't sweat the small stuff" person and know it's scary getting ready to be a father for the first time, I'll overlook your poor fact-checking on the taxi front. A tiny bit of research would have told you that Royal Cab in Baltimore, for which I both drove and dispatched, has red taxis, not yellow ones.
I hope I have time to drop in on your chat tonight. You're an interesting guy and decent person (with a few tiny flaws) and I think this is going to be a fine and worthy event.
Take care,
-- Robin "roblimo" Miller
Baltimore Cab License #6714
Maryland Limo Permit #1273
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Nobody else sees the humor in someone reacting to criticism based on the color of their car?
Bruce Perens.
You sound like a broken record. I have better things to do than play the ascending karma game here. If I wanted karma, I would implement it on technocrat.net .
Bruce Perens.
But it's an Open Source copycat :-)
Bruce Perens.
Since there were technical problems I dictated my replies to Kevin for part of the interview, and it's clear there was some degree of garble.
Bruce Perens.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Or at least put the UTC time in there so that people will only have to know their own time zone.
--
Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
I'm unfortunately not going to be able to jump on IRC at that time to ask him some questions, but I'm sure it's going to generate some interesting info.
This is almost like an extended slashdot interview chance in my mind, with more judicious moderation since there will probably be several "Green Beret" IRC ops there to kick/ban anybody who goes off on some damn grits/natalie portman tangent.
Are we going to see an IRC log of this tomorrow? (Please say yes)
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
If it is, that'd probably create a bit of a scheduling conflict for those on EST. Ack!
Note that this is a really harsh solution, from me. this post pretty well explains what I usually think of self-censorship. JonKatz makes me angry sometimes, and irritated others, and occasionally even amused. So I don't want to just screen him out. Roblimo... I just don't really care to see anymore. Apathy is the worst punishment (even Katz knows that! ;-)).
As for finding or creating something better, well, I'm trying to help others create by writing free software for them to use. Scoop is a from-scratch slash clone which is already licensed under the GPL. It's not my real job, so development is in my spare time, but it's coming along. Maybe with weblog software that's usable, others will be able to create more interesting communities.
"Moderation is good, in theory."
-Larry Wall
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
I've looked at PHPslash, and I wish them the best of luck. I do have a preference for perl, mainly because I write perl all day for work, and the cost of switching back and forth between perl and PHP is oddly high. They're very similar, but not quite similar enough, so whenever I write in PHP for a while, my perl gets all screwed up. :-) Plus there's a lot of code I can swipe from work projects that helps move Scoop along. As you say, competition is a good thing.
I'm trying to make it easier for people to contribute to Scoop. Yesterday I wrote new install instructions that should make it alot easier for people, and the next thing I'm going to be doing is revising what I've written so far, commenting, organizing, and writing developer docs. There's several things that need to be done before I really expect anyone to help (like, um, posting stories for example!), but thanks for the encouragement. Check back soon.
"Moderation is good, in theory."
-Larry Wall
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
Oh, damn. I knew there was something wrong with that plan. Well, I guess you'll just have to wait until Rob applies Service Pack 6 for Slash2000, and you know, he's been so busy counting his money lately and everything... well, it might be a while.
"Moderation is good, in theory."
-Larry Wall
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
I posted this piece because I felt "l33td00d@aol.com" raised some subtle but interesting technical points about r00ting L4m3Rz that were worth discussion and clarification. I honestly did not expect to get flamed over my decision to post his submission.
I believe that l33t H4x0r tricks and h4X, like l33t h4x0rz themselves, should be discussed as openly and publicly as possible so that everyone knows who is 0wN3d by whom. However, words (especially l33t H4x0r words) are far more slippery than code. With words the question, "R j00 4 L4m3R?" is often far harder to answer than it is in software.
Please accept my humble apology. I was wrong. I will try not to make the mistake of posting anything on Slashdot ever again.
-----------------------------
Ok, the last bit was only wishful thinking. But before you dismiss this as a menaingless troll, read it carefully. How different is posting the legal opinions of someone who has no legal knowledge from posting the technical opinions of somone who has no technical knowledge? Robin would have been run out of town on a rail if he had actually posted "Win98 0wNz j00r L4M3R Azz?" but since it was "arcane legal matters," he was perfectly justified? Hackers tend to have very finely tuned bullshit detectors, and mine goes to full alert whenever Robin-the-Taxi-Guy starts defending himself.
Slashdot is dying. I started reading here for the articles. I hardly ever even read the comments. Whatever I may say about CmdrTaco, he has a good nose for interesting content. As soon as he pretty much stopped being the editorial manager, and turned it over to this joker, the content went to hell. But there's still the community, which is often a rich source of information and new ideas. So now I read the comments more than I even pay attention to the stories.
But how long can a site maintain an interesting community if it no longer has the content to draw interesting people. Sooner or later (sooner, I think) the smart people here will get sick of all the crap and move somewhere else (like technocrat.net, where the S/N is still blissfully high).
The life of slashdot is like a microcosm of the life of Silicon Valley. First there were the geeks, geeking out and doing cool stuff. Then they made some money, and the businesspeople moved in. Now you can't swing a patch cable without hitting twelve lawyers and eighteen CEO's. But where are all the geeks? They're moving on.
Farewell /. It was fun while it lasted.
"Moderation is good, in theory."
-Larry Wall
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
But yea gods, what a sewer! I know a bunch of folks who refuse to read slashdot "discussions", and is it any wonder why? You know, if you just want to goof around, there are all sorts of places on the net you can do it... irc channels, usenet newsgroups (like alt.flame, alt.kibo...) and I'm sure there's plenty of AOL crap I'm unfamiliar with. Why are you guys picking this particular sandbox to piss in?
Okay, so you like to mess with people's heads a bit, but isn't this kind of lame way of doing it? There are some real battles going on out there in the world that you could be a part of, but instead your just seeing how fast you can make it to minus one.
Come on already, wake up! It's time to play for real stakes with the big boys.
You don't get to read stuff like this on slashdot itself, except in little bursts that are quickly labeled "off-topic".
I recommend reading: A proposal to Slashdot
Don't give up, kuro5hin. Many have predicted the death of Slashdot, but it's still here.
It is sick though.
As Robin's user info explains, he came along to help out with management. But then he started posting... then he starting writing... now he's started thinking he can patronise net luminaries. The new crowd is moving in, and things just ain't the same around here.
Don't forget though, Rob M and Jeff still have editorial control (their contract demands it). It was Rob's 'good nose for stories' that made
So what to do? I'm not sure, but we should be discussing this rather than giving up. Here's a few random thoughts:
I'm surprised I care about this.
(For those wondering what this is all about, see this story.)
I'm astonished that you're still not apologising about this, Robin.
I'd point you to the original story to show why Bruce had every right to criticise, but of course I can't. Why not? Because you changed the story header after the criticism, rather than adding an 'Update' after the story without editing the original (as has been customary at Slashdot for a long time).
The original story was certainly sensationalist, and Bruce is exactly right that since the 'discover' of this 'hole' was not a noted license reviewer, and since his 'discovery' was not supported by anyone, it was not news.
I've got no strong interest here, so you can't fob off my criticism like you fobbed off Bruce's. I had the same reaction to your story as Bruce (before reading any comments), even although I don't hold the GPL in such high regard as he does (although I do find it an intruiging document worthy of discussion).
And let me remind you again that this kind of behaviour from you is doing Slashdot a disservice.
A transcript of this chat, (and all the other's we've done) will be up at www.astepcloser.com within an hour or two of completion.
-- Kevin
Ack, that should be 'subscribe astepcloser' in the body. :)
Hey, In my defense, they didn't announce the new show until after Bruce and I scheduled this. :) It was originally going to be a week later. :)
Although, I did get to meet most of the X-files cast last week. Perhaps I can talk a few into doing a chat like this.
Kevin
As an administrator for a couple of servers on NewNet, as well as a software developer, I can assure you that this kind of association with NewNet isn't desirable.
I'm actively working to bring interesting things to NewNet that aren't warez/porn/whatever related. Things like this help.
-- Kevin
Ok... First of all, a offical transcript is here:
n dex_html
:)
:)
:)
http://www.a stepcloser.com/Zope/astepcloser/forum/948687822/i
Secondly, we learned quite a bit.
1) Even if your guest says they have a DSL line and can handle script kiddies, insist on a proxy of some sort before hand.
2) Plan for many more people than you expect. I honestly expected a lesser crowd than the ones I've had before for events like this, since I couldn't promote it well.
3) Implement the hacks I've got to ircd to allow for a forum like this. (Hide joins/parts from non-opers, disallow nick changes, etc).
But, a lot of really good questions got asked, and Bruce did a wonderful job of answering them. We'll be doing more of these, so please subscribe to the mailing list, if you want to be informed of them... (majordomo@dragondata.com - put 'subscribe irc' in the body).
Also, we're holding a contest to see who can bring the most interesting person for a future chat.... Go here for details... Win a t-shirt from Think Geek, or a $20 gift certificate from B&N.
Thanks to everyone who came.
Kevin
Hi, I'm Kevin Day, the guy who's kinda running this interview tonight.
:)
:)
:)
I really had no idea this was actually going to make it up on here, so this will definately be a learning experience as how to handle larger crowds. Right now it's 7 hours before the chat starts, and there are already more people here than there were for some tv/movie stars that I've done this with.
I'm gonna post a 'how this is gonna work' to www.astepcloser.com in a few minutes, but briefly:
The channel is moderated during the Q&A. This means nobody can talk who isn't running the show, or Bruce. With hundreds of people here, there's no sensible way of doing this.
To have a question asked, you'll send it to me, or one of the people helping out. (They'll have @'s next to their name).
We'll pick the interesting looking questions, and post them in the channel. Bruce will answer.
The realtime nature of this will allow followup questions to his responses, as well as the hint of unpredictability. (I hope!)
You're welcome to hang out before and after the event. We've got one other interview scheduled two weeks from now, with more on their way.
(And yes, please don't flame me that www.astepcloser.com looks a whole awful lot like www.slashdot.org. That's the default SquishDot look that I haven't had the chance to change much yet)
We'll definately be exploring the slashdot effect on irc servers tonight.
-- Kevin
Use UTC. It's a common reference point that everyone *should* be able to convert to their local time. Otherwise, you have to say "well, I'm 11 hours ahead of UTC, USEST is 5 hours behind" and go through more crap.
Well, 6pm PST is also the time most people have dinner, no? And since it *IS* Sunday, I doubt many people do spend time at the computer typing and eating (well, I don't know about /.ers... so this probably isn't true).
I guess central and mountain time people have it made >G
"Bruce is well known in the Open Source software circles as for being the
/. crowd here tonight.
leader of the Debian Linux distribution for several years, being co-founder
of the Open Source Initiative, and a vocal protector of free software. Bruce
has also worked as the Sr. Systems Programmer at Pixar (makers of Toy Story
and A Bug's Life) for twelve years."
That should help somewhat. I hope to see some of the
myers
NewNet Admin
irc.neticus.com
Newnet has long been known for its large number of warez, vcd, mp3, etc. channels. If you /list them all, you'll find that the majority of the channels are warez channels, and all of the channels with >=25 people. I wonder why Bruce chose this network when he could have chosen Efnet, irc.slashdot.org, or many of the other networks in existance that don't have a warez connotation. Is it symbolic in some way?
I would like to know Bruce's opinion on linux standards, with regaurds in particular to a standard desktop, and package manager. because as a software developer i feel it is tough to support so many distributions with many different directory layouts and different package formats.
:-) I am actually trying to run a porting operation in Linux Capital Group. However, there are ethical problems. By porting commercial windows apps to Linux, and keeping them proprietary, do I make it more difficult for an open source solution to happen? And is the open source solution where I should be putting my company's efforts ? I figure I have to decide this on a item-by-item basis. If TurboTax wants a port, they will get it. If some FTP program wants a port, I'd just explain what the competition is like.
That's a pretty big question, and I think we should talk about GUI's since there's more than one of them. And I should talk about distros, with regard to standards. The Linux standard base, is working on issues like filesystem layouts, names of libraries, what's in the libraries, and in general the nuts and bolts of how things works. However, they're not standardizing on a GUI. So, it looks like for the forseeable future, we're going to have KDE and Gnome both. I think they address different markets.
As AT&T awaits for the aproval of the merger with the 3rd largest cable company in the US, MediaOne, and as AOL may change it's tune of open acess cable for the internet if it's merger with TimeWarner, the 2nd largest cable operator, goes through, what do you envision the Future holds for the freedom to acess the Internet, for the freedom _of_ the Internet, and for grassroots sites such as yours, Technocrat?
Well, several users ago, I commented to the FCC on the creation of a personal digital radio service. And my intent at that time was that the service be used to establish a fidonet or usenet sort of relay system, that would allow people to do internet like things. Without the wired internet. So far, we don't have good radios to do this, except for maybe for some radios that AT&T is manufacturing. I've worked on this problem for as L0pht, and I'd like to see more radio and software develeopment, for a disconnected internet. A totally old-fashioned thing, which takes a lot of money. I actually tried to fund this, about a year ago, and did not succeed. It's possible I'll have better success now, once Linux Capital Group has funded some linux projects.
What is your opinion of the Wine project? Do you think a functional/reliable Windows emulator is important for Linux's success on the desktop, and do you believe it is possible for Wine to achieve a high level of compatibility with Windows?
Wine is one of the most difficult products in Linux. They're chasing a moving target, and a poorly documented one at that. Look at the commercial ones, like Wabi, which suddenly disappeared one day. I would like to see Wine succeed, I'd certainly help them any way I could. But, I think in the end, we need Linux applications for linux systems.
I'm wondering what your thoughts on the recent DVD DeCSS brouhaha are?
I was in the courtroom, for the first hearing. Unfortunately I missed the second one, where the prelim injunction was granted. I think that Linux folks just want to play DVD discs, and you should be able to play them with open source software. I think that US law is going too far, as far as intellectual propertly protection, when that kind of protection puts constraints in our hardware. And I think that the DVD folks, who are the movie studios, have nothing to lose, because DeCSS is not enabling the wholesale bootleggers. They have professional equipment. So, I'd hope that they could eventually be persuaded to drop the issue, but they've shown a history of being shortsighted. When the first Video Tape Recorders (betamax) came into homes, the movie studios did the same sort of lawsuit. They lost, and boy are they glad they did. They now make more from videotape sales, then they do from theatrical presentation. And the videotapes have only the lamest copy protection.
With the recent success of Loki distributing and porting games to linux, and the recent anouncement of more ports do you think application developers will start to hop on and port the killer apps over?
Well, I don't think of games as the killer aps for Linux, but maybe I'm prejudiced
Being a Java developer, I'm interested in how you see the future of the language considering Sun's current licencing position. Also, what advice would you have for Sun, keeping in mind the fact that they are trying hard to stop third parties (like MS) from polluting the language?
Sun is in big trouble. They are painting themselves into smaller and smaller corners. This is because nobody has to listen to Sun unless they are using Sun's own software. Surely Transvirtual can sell Microsoft any version of Kaffe they wish. And now sun is going to release Solaris under SCSL. That will be a big boost to Linux. Linux programmers will copy what they like, but not close enough to violate copyright. Solaris will still have a dumb license and will gain market share more slowly than Linux, if it gains it at all. So, I am of mixed minds. I would prefer that sun use a good Open Source license. But at the same time I don't think this will hurt linux, it will help it if sun uses a bad license.
Do you think the recent relaxation of the restrictions on crypto by the US DoC is really a step forward, or just a straw-move to placate crypto-activists?
Regarding the crypto question, I have not had time to read the new law. So, I can only make a general answer. Open Source needs good crypto to work. If we can not tell where our programs come from, we will not know if they have trojan horses. So, we need digital signature very badly. So I'd like to see crypto laws support free import and export of open source crypto.
Here it is, the complete unedited, uncensored text of the irc session with Bruce Perens.
http://www.squadron.org/perensirc.txt
It's about ~78kb, but it's text, so it'll download fast.
For those of us who can't make it, can a transcript of the discussion (with obvious trolls edited out) be posted to Slashdot? Bruce is clearly popular with at least part of the community, so I'd say this is at least as relevant as a regular interview article.
Alik
Well, to learn more about Bruce, you can check out his "competition to /." page at Technocrat.net, or his personal site at Perens.com. His BIO can be found here.
All in all, Bruce is an okay guy. I haven't really interacted with him much, but he at least appears to make sense most of the time. (Really, all you can ask out of anyone, IMHO)
Too bad I don't have time to actually be at this chat. Then again, since this is on /., I expect a netsplit to occur. Illiad barely got away with 120+ simultaneous visits during the 2 year anniversary.
/me will look for the transcript.
-- Count Spatula: The Culinary Vampire "...because my cooking sucks."
--Eythain
There will be a log of the whole convorsation at http://people.ce.mediaone.net/t0w nshend/index.htm.
I've heard this guy's name before... something to do with Debian? Can someone explain to everyone (and me) who this guy is?
The +1 time is called British Summer Time, remember that and you cannot go too far wrong.
While I'm sure IRC chatting with Bruce Perens is a very worthwhile way to spend one's evening, I feel obliged to point out that 9:00pm Eastern is when the X-Files airs. To say that more than a few of us geeks will be torn would be putting it mildly.
It's good to see the editors of Slashdot announcing chats with people who don't see eye-to-eye with them. Bruce thinks for himself, and thinks well. He's also an incredible Francophone.