If a group meeting occurs with higher ups:
Ask the following of the department presenters attempting to clarify...
1. Has HR and Legal approved of the project schedule and related compensation plan?
2. IF in CA - Are they aware of the Labor Code Sections 510 onward?
3. IF in CA - Are they aware of the absolute requirement that Computer Professionals must be paid a minimum of 41.00/hr and cannot be trainees/interns and that overtime is simply straight pay?
4. Are they planning to institute a time-tracking system for purposes of compensation? (If there isn't one already.)
Write down the time and date of such meetings, politely push for non-vaque answers for 1-3. This becomes evidence that you attempted to inform the higher ups as well as legal and HR that a problem may exist.
If a 1-1 situation occurs...
1. Don't argue or complain.
2. Repeat 1-3 above.
3. Work if told too.
4. But most importantly...write down every single day you work overtime...every hour...even the minutes. Note categorically what work was done during each overtime period.
Number 4 is important because if a legal confrontation occurs either between attorneys, or in court...the company will have to respond to your itemized claim under the Fair Labor Standards Act. Failure to respond to your itemized claim with tracking system generated data of work hours if a guaranteed win for you. Of course, the company may create false data that lowers your overtime...or deny it happened at all. So it certainly helps to have a few others on your team talking to your attorney, and testifying in court providing the same claim. This makes gives a denial a lot less weight.
Be prepared though to be on a RIF hit list. Too many companies out there, especially a lot of dot coms, simply never matured and tend to be lead by non-leaders or bullies. They aren't worth working for anyway.
From experience, I find that things of this nature often happen because some dipshit of a manager doesn't realized that their authority ends where compensation and contractual policy begins - they forget or don't realize that those areas are strictly the realm of HR and Legal. Usually, when the heat leaks from pissed off employees, Legal gets wind of it, calls the manager and his boss into a meeting upstairs - and rips the manager a new butthole.
If such a correction doesn't take place, then the policy originated from the top - either hold your ground or leave and sue.
=8-)
Doesn't matter whether you are considered salary or not - everyone is paid an hourly wage - whether it is stated up front or is derived from a yearly salary broken down into 52 weeks at 40 hours a week.
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise...
At both the Fed level and in CA, 8 hours a day and 40 hours a week is the non-overtime cut-off. CA goes further by breaking hours down using a 1/40 fraction. And you must have 1 day off for every 7 days...before continuing work unless (yep, there are usually exceptions) an emergency exists that threatens property or life.
Now here is where folks who fall into "professional" fields (not doctors or teachers in this example) get confused. Especially in CA.
If you for example as an IT person get loosely labelled a "computer professional" here in CA you pretty much can't duck it so long as you are not a trainee or paid less than 41.00/hr. The label sticks in most courts and Labor offices.
So what happens when you work overtime as a "computer professional"? Well, you don't get 1.5 or 2.0 multiplied to your hourly wage. Nor do you get minimum wage or a multiple of the minimum. What you really get is straight-overtime. In other words, you continue to get paid just your hourly wage. No more, no less.
This law under Section 510.00 onward under the CA labor code was obviously passed to keep companies from getting killed by mutiplier overtime on employees who are very expensive to being with. It was a break given to companies and the state as well for teachers, doctors, etc under different professional classifications and schedules.
Each state and the Feds have differences on professions and the minimum that professionals must be paid to be declared as such...do your research.
Keep records, and get ready to push the issue. Nice thing about the Fair Labor Standards Act is that if you keep track and provide a bill for overtime - and your employer hasn't done the same using a certified time piece or tracking system - they get stuck with the bill. Have an attorney ready too who if familiar with that act and other relevant labor info.
On the other hand, if you can't stand on your own two feet - you are better off quitting. My experience has been that companies or managers who try to claim salaried employees are not entitled to overtime are operating under questionable leadership and headed for recognition on Fucked Company.
When I started seeing shadows of letters on freeway signs and couldn't tell if the tail lights of cars in front of me were left, ahead, or right of me.
I've noticed that some posters have left the impression that if you are an "exempt computer professional" you are working for free beyond 8 hours or a 40 hour week...
Not true....
Read carefully...
"515.5. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), an employee in
the computer software field shall be exempt from the requirement that
an overtime rate of compensation be paid pursuant to Section 510 if
all of the following apply:"
Note the keywords - "exempt from the requirement that an overtime rate of compensation be paid pursuant to Section 510..."
It doesn't do away with the foundational definition of an 8 hour workday or 40 hour workweek. 510 does not distinquish between hourly or salaried...doesn't matter.
All it says is - employers do not have to pay 1.5 or 2.0 times base hourly wage depending on the hours to applicable folks...
In my experience, those people who are being slaved at 60-80 hours a week tend to be those who fall into 2 categories:
1. Didn't know their rights...
2. Or failed to exercise them and show some balls when words were floated around from above such as "not a team player" or "not flexible enough in achieving company goals" when reviews are coming up.
Do I have a problem with this law? Actually I don't...it is reasonable in my opinion. Those companies that work in fields with high-paid professionals in which overtime is always present do need a break. Pay me a "professional" salary/wage (41.00/hr) and I'll go with straight overtime pay at 41.00/hr.
Otherwise, a lot more companies in CA would already be packing their bags to head elsewhere.
Those companies that try to have it both ways? Watch my sign language...
I've been in this situation in which myself and quite a few others did not budge. In good companies, the manager or director who try's to pull this off often gets tolds to check with the corporate legal department and HR in the future before "trying new cost savings ideas".
As to licensed physicians and practitioners - have to admit they are screwed in some ways. Poor folks...
=8-)
Being salaried does not exempt you...if you read the code very carefully ( CA Labor Code 510.0 - 522.5) exemptions are based upon several classes such as "exempt computer professional", "exempt medical professional", etc.
In most exempt professions, you are are paid a specified minimum hourly wage (a high rate - that is reviewed yearly by the legislature) but overtime is straight - no multiplier.
If you are salaried, it is simply broken down into a 40 hour work week to calculate compliance.
Also, the fractional for overtime is 1/40...meaning that if you start an hour, you are paid an hour.
You are absolutely right on the law you noted.
While there are many ways employers can define your position to describe your computer related work as that of a "excempt computer professional" there is one requirement that absolutely must be met if "straight overtime" is to be paid:
You must be paid 41.00 an hour to meet the final requirement of being categorized as an except computer professional.
If you are not paid at least that amount salary/hourly wise, then the various multipliers kick in after the 8th hour daily, 40 hours weekly, or whatever agree upon 40 work calendar contract is exceeded.
=8-)
Guess what...alot of employers violate the 41.00 specification...especially those who consider following up work at home or work in response to a pager as not being work...
=8-)
1. Send up something that acts as a switchable magnet. 2. Repeat if necessary to do regional cleaning. 3. Instead of trying to get rid of it, save it. 4. Because eventually alloys and other materials are going to be manufactured in orbit on ISS and future stations, or on the moon and maybe even mars.
In other words, don't view this as garbage cleanup and disposal, but rather as orbital mining and recycling. As a matter of fact, it might just be a good idea to continue contributing to the orbital junk - just make sure it gets collected so as to keep the "orbiways" clear.
=8-)
Re:If it ain't new...it ain't news...
on
What is .NET?
·
· Score: 1
You weren't by any chance posting your article while it was in progress were you? Because not only was I reading about controversies over.NET there the last two weeks...but also about what it was and entails...
=8-)
If it ain't new...it ain't news...
on
What is .NET?
·
· Score: 1
Gee thanks...this review has been there for over two weeks...and now someone creates a./ item for it...is this a covert attempt to simply crash ARS because of some animosity on your part?
Thanks *sshole...now I can't browse my favorite technical site...
=8-(
Me thinks there is a strong possibility that this latest worm/virus/trojan is an attempt to wipe out AV software to cripple their support for a backdoor servicing Magin Lantern.
And yes...I am the real MrRabbit...whoever stole my handle and alias I've held since 1991 can rot in hell!!!
=8-)
Slashdot Mirror
If a group meeting occurs with higher ups: Ask the following of the department presenters attempting to clarify... 1. Has HR and Legal approved of the project schedule and related compensation plan? 2. IF in CA - Are they aware of the Labor Code Sections 510 onward? 3. IF in CA - Are they aware of the absolute requirement that Computer Professionals must be paid a minimum of 41.00/hr and cannot be trainees/interns and that overtime is simply straight pay? 4. Are they planning to institute a time-tracking system for purposes of compensation? (If there isn't one already.) Write down the time and date of such meetings, politely push for non-vaque answers for 1-3. This becomes evidence that you attempted to inform the higher ups as well as legal and HR that a problem may exist. If a 1-1 situation occurs... 1. Don't argue or complain. 2. Repeat 1-3 above. 3. Work if told too. 4. But most importantly...write down every single day you work overtime...every hour...even the minutes. Note categorically what work was done during each overtime period. Number 4 is important because if a legal confrontation occurs either between attorneys, or in court...the company will have to respond to your itemized claim under the Fair Labor Standards Act. Failure to respond to your itemized claim with tracking system generated data of work hours if a guaranteed win for you. Of course, the company may create false data that lowers your overtime...or deny it happened at all. So it certainly helps to have a few others on your team talking to your attorney, and testifying in court providing the same claim. This makes gives a denial a lot less weight. Be prepared though to be on a RIF hit list. Too many companies out there, especially a lot of dot coms, simply never matured and tend to be lead by non-leaders or bullies. They aren't worth working for anyway. From experience, I find that things of this nature often happen because some dipshit of a manager doesn't realized that their authority ends where compensation and contractual policy begins - they forget or don't realize that those areas are strictly the realm of HR and Legal. Usually, when the heat leaks from pissed off employees, Legal gets wind of it, calls the manager and his boss into a meeting upstairs - and rips the manager a new butthole. If such a correction doesn't take place, then the policy originated from the top - either hold your ground or leave and sue. =8-)
Doesn't matter whether you are considered salary or not - everyone is paid an hourly wage - whether it is stated up front or is derived from a yearly salary broken down into 52 weeks at 40 hours a week.
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise...
At both the Fed level and in CA, 8 hours a day and 40 hours a week is the non-overtime cut-off. CA goes further by breaking hours down using a 1/40 fraction. And you must have 1 day off for every 7 days...before continuing work unless (yep, there are usually exceptions) an emergency exists that threatens property or life.
Now here is where folks who fall into "professional" fields (not doctors or teachers in this example) get confused. Especially in CA.
If you for example as an IT person get loosely labelled a "computer professional" here in CA you pretty much can't duck it so long as you are not a trainee or paid less than 41.00/hr. The label sticks in most courts and Labor offices.
So what happens when you work overtime as a "computer professional"? Well, you don't get 1.5 or 2.0 multiplied to your hourly wage. Nor do you get minimum wage or a multiple of the minimum. What you really get is straight-overtime. In other words, you continue to get paid just your hourly wage. No more, no less.
This law under Section 510.00 onward under the CA labor code was obviously passed to keep companies from getting killed by mutiplier overtime on employees who are very expensive to being with. It was a break given to companies and the state as well for teachers, doctors, etc under different professional classifications and schedules.
Each state and the Feds have differences on professions and the minimum that professionals must be paid to be declared as such...do your research.
Keep records, and get ready to push the issue. Nice thing about the Fair Labor Standards Act is that if you keep track and provide a bill for overtime - and your employer hasn't done the same using a certified time piece or tracking system - they get stuck with the bill. Have an attorney ready too who if familiar with that act and other relevant labor info.
On the other hand, if you can't stand on your own two feet - you are better off quitting. My experience has been that companies or managers who try to claim salaried employees are not entitled to overtime are operating under questionable leadership and headed for recognition on Fucked Company.
=8-)
Just gotta ask...
=8-)
When I started seeing shadows of letters on freeway signs and couldn't tell if the tail lights of cars in front of me were left, ahead, or right of me.
Now I'm seeing double...
=8-)
I've noticed that some posters have left the impression that if you are an "exempt computer professional" you are working for free beyond 8 hours or a 40 hour week... Not true.... Read carefully... "515.5. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), an employee in the computer software field shall be exempt from the requirement that an overtime rate of compensation be paid pursuant to Section 510 if all of the following apply:" Note the keywords - "exempt from the requirement that an overtime rate of compensation be paid pursuant to Section 510..." It doesn't do away with the foundational definition of an 8 hour workday or 40 hour workweek. 510 does not distinquish between hourly or salaried...doesn't matter. All it says is - employers do not have to pay 1.5 or 2.0 times base hourly wage depending on the hours to applicable folks... In my experience, those people who are being slaved at 60-80 hours a week tend to be those who fall into 2 categories: 1. Didn't know their rights... 2. Or failed to exercise them and show some balls when words were floated around from above such as "not a team player" or "not flexible enough in achieving company goals" when reviews are coming up. Do I have a problem with this law? Actually I don't...it is reasonable in my opinion. Those companies that work in fields with high-paid professionals in which overtime is always present do need a break. Pay me a "professional" salary/wage (41.00/hr) and I'll go with straight overtime pay at 41.00/hr. Otherwise, a lot more companies in CA would already be packing their bags to head elsewhere. Those companies that try to have it both ways? Watch my sign language... I've been in this situation in which myself and quite a few others did not budge. In good companies, the manager or director who try's to pull this off often gets tolds to check with the corporate legal department and HR in the future before "trying new cost savings ideas". As to licensed physicians and practitioners - have to admit they are screwed in some ways. Poor folks... =8-)
Being salaried does not exempt you...if you read the code very carefully ( CA Labor Code 510.0 - 522.5) exemptions are based upon several classes such as "exempt computer professional", "exempt medical professional", etc. In most exempt professions, you are are paid a specified minimum hourly wage (a high rate - that is reviewed yearly by the legislature) but overtime is straight - no multiplier. If you are salaried, it is simply broken down into a 40 hour work week to calculate compliance. Also, the fractional for overtime is 1/40...meaning that if you start an hour, you are paid an hour.
You are absolutely right on the law you noted. While there are many ways employers can define your position to describe your computer related work as that of a "excempt computer professional" there is one requirement that absolutely must be met if "straight overtime" is to be paid: You must be paid 41.00 an hour to meet the final requirement of being categorized as an except computer professional. If you are not paid at least that amount salary/hourly wise, then the various multipliers kick in after the 8th hour daily, 40 hours weekly, or whatever agree upon 40 work calendar contract is exceeded. =8-) Guess what...alot of employers violate the 41.00 specification...especially those who consider following up work at home or work in response to a pager as not being work... =8-)
Posted previously...old news...
=8-)
1. Send up something that acts as a switchable magnet.
2. Repeat if necessary to do regional cleaning.
3. Instead of trying to get rid of it, save it.
4. Because eventually alloys and other materials are going to be manufactured in orbit on ISS and future stations, or on the moon and maybe even mars.
In other words, don't view this as garbage cleanup and disposal, but rather as orbital mining and recycling. As a matter of fact, it might just be a good idea to continue contributing to the orbital junk - just make sure it gets collected so as to keep the "orbiways" clear.
=8-)
You weren't by any chance posting your article while it was in progress were you? Because not only was I reading about controversies over .NET there the last two weeks...but also about what it was and entails...
=8-)
Gee thanks...this review has been there for over two weeks...and now someone creates a ./ item for it...is this a covert attempt to simply crash ARS because of some animosity on your part?
Thanks *sshole...now I can't browse my favorite technical site...
=8-(
Me thinks there is a strong possibility that this latest worm/virus/trojan is an attempt to wipe out AV software to cripple their support for a backdoor servicing Magin Lantern. And yes...I am the real MrRabbit...whoever stole my handle and alias I've held since 1991 can rot in hell!!! =8-)