I'm not sure if these have the same dual-core architecture that the Qualcomm MSMs do.
They do not. On OMAP based platforms, the baseband is a separate processor isolated from the applications processor. Qualcomm chips provide both in the same package as they create the baseband itself, while TI does not provide any baseband solutions.
For this reason it may be much harder to be confident about locking down the radio side to enforce SIMlocks and FCC rules without locking down the application side too.
And for the second time today, someone spouts this crap line. If this were in any way true, Nokia's N900 would need to be locked down just as hard, yet it is not.
This is not an FCC mandate forcing this lock down. This is Motorola trying to protect their (and Verizon's) branding against the owners of the devices.
This is Motorola's doing, as HTC's phones have similar security features in the CPU (bootloader encryption is enforced by TrustZone) and yet they don't use it.
Go back a couple years and you can find papers from Motorola discussing how to lock down the user environment against modification. They're all about locking users out of their property.
If that were in true in any way, shape, and form, then every other vendor would be doing the same. Only Motorola is taking this stance.
The code that actually connects to towers, does the signaling etc is well programmed, fairly well tested by the FCC for compliance and then locked up out of harms way with a simple API.
Which is isolated from the Android environment via serial or USB connection. This lockdown has -nothing- to do with the 3G baseband, which runs on its own processor with its own memory and storage.
The greatest problem with the gyre is that the plastic in question is untold quadrillions of tiny, sometimes microscopic, bits of plastic that have broken down under UV light and descended somewhere in the water column. You would need to filter several meters deep to filter all the garbage out.
Of course, bean counters will kill this because it's unprofitable, and everyone else will ignore it because it's so far out to sea.
Apple came out with the iPhone and followed down the same path with respect to both customers and developers.
With the caveat of being the only vendor for the platform, which is extremely tightly controlled.
Google introduced Android and their efforts are just as consistent.
Which speaks nothing to the hardware manufacturers, whom are abandoning handsets left and right and leaving it up to the community to forge ahead.
Nokia, on the other hand, bought Symbian which at the time was mostly a feature phone OS
OK
introduced Maemo which used GTK
Maemo was introduced back in 2005. The N900 was its first appearance on anything resembling a phone.
then ported Qt to Maemo and dropped GTK, then started porting Qt to next version of Symbian, then dropped Maemo and started work on Meego.
No. The Qt port to the N900 is an officially supported port present in the base install (as of PR1.2) as a compatibility layer with MeeGo. The base Maemo UI and interfaces are still done with GTK. Maemo is still alive, and will get one more iteration through this sort of "MeeGo-Harmattan" hybrid that will be on Nokia's next handset, with the following devices transitioning to MeeGo fully.
Now, what next?
Qt. If you're an application developer, just think Qt and use the Qt development tools. Cross compilers for multiple architectures and target OSes are all included.
Are there politics going on inside the company? If so, someone has to take charge and make some tough technical decisions.
Undoubtedly, my suspicion is that the N900 was a skunk-works power play to light a fire under everyone else's asses, and I believe MeeGo and the Qt transition is the result.
Now they are going for Meego, still having closed components
The core of MeeGo will be fully functional, with closed platform-specific bits pushed to the fringes. Hardware support is essential, and at this point the necessary bits are available to device owners.
They should be more open on them, letting developers fully take advantage of that hardware
They can't. Bits like the 3D driver are held by a 3rd party that is very much not willing to go open with their sources. Sorta like Nvidia. This is, not coincidentally, why MeeGo's support for Intel graphics drivers is so good.
the cellphone part don't work because being one of the closed components
Within the next few months Ofono will be able to make calls with the N900, without any closed bits.
Companies including RIM, Nokia, Microsoft and Apple should watch out for Android with its Linux roots. Development appears to be fast. At this speed their lunch is at risk.
RIM and Microsoft are the ones who really have to be concerned. Apple will turn into a niche, though a very competitive one. Nokia however is pushing Symbian down the stack to their midrange and lower phones, reserving the high end for MeeGo, which holds to more "true Linux roots" than Android by being a common Linux stack from the kernel up through X.
That doesn't mean it's competitive, but it sure gives it one hell of a draw that many people lost once they realized Android was a Java-incompatible Java sandbox.
I'd like to see the drivers opened such that I could have one less closed bit, but only having a kernel-side chunk open (or whatever bastardized process they have now) and the userspace stuff still locked to Android or whatever OS came on your device. Oh and to redistribute without being in violation of a license.
I'd love it if the PowerVR SGX drivers for my N900 had source. We could probably make them not suck and turn on VSync.
Indeed, it is amusing to watch them squirm and flounder in a market they don't have total dominance over. Watching them swing left and right, outright copying their competitors to try and regain a foothold in a market they got pushed out of. Fortunately, they don't have an incompetent competitor in the market like Sony to leave the door wide open.
I wonder if this is how MS would be if they weren't tops in the OS and Office suite world, would they be lurching left and right trying to find a place?
It might not die, but there would be a whole lot less. I don't think Sturgeon's law takes into account "love," so I would rather the averages be pumped up a bit.
After all, 1% of 100000 is way better than 1% of 1000.
In the "DRM" mode, only the "extras" repository is available (and any a vendor may add,) and promotion to that requires your program be reviewed (in a far more open process than anything Apple can offer.) Abusive software like you mentioned is unlikely to pass muster.
The "unstable" repositories will only be addable in no-DRM mode, and you're on your own.
The key here is "Symbian Signed", I am sure they will (have to) implement it on Maemo too. Or a very funny and joke like thing like actual app store with their string checking interns may happen.
There will be a "DRM" mode, but there will also be an "Open" mode. The goal is to answer the whiny calls of media companies and the like and give them a "secure" platform, but not screw over those who use devices like the N900, which implements zero DRM. I fully plan on ensuring any device I buy can be switched to (and will quickly be switched to) a no-DRM mode.
I think the real deal (talk/sms/emergency call/ring) will run in its own process and/or even CPU and somehow will be untouchable.
You can send an SMS from the device right now via dbus. The call stack in Maemo is closed, but they're using oFono in MeeGo. I have no doubt the OS will give the user control but to say that it -must- be locked down in some fashion and they -must- deny the user control is nonsense.
If Nokia had any brains left, it would switch their smartphones to Android
Yes, to an OS wholly controlled by Google, not developed in anything resembling an open fashion, and forcing a pseudo-Java runtime with kernel extensions, a filesystem that were never meant to be open source in the first place, and a custom framebuffer system that isn't compatible with anything that already exists on Linux.
No thanks, I'd rather go for a system that has more in common with modern, open Linux distributions.
Garbage collection? Code better if you're using C/C++, or use Python. Sandboxing? Can be done without a pseudo-Java VM.
Except that there -will- be, like there is for Maemo, a community repository where less stable software can be made available.
Sure you won't get into the Ovi store or whatnot, but you will be able to make your software available without having to pass strict checklists if you really, really want to put it out there. Assuming your carrier or non-Nokia handset vendor isn't being an ass.
You and a few more folks on slashdot, but not 99% of mobile phone users. I want my phone to check email, sync my calendar, make/receive call, and most importantly work without me having to tinker with it.
Which is how it should be, in the end.
While there maybe a hardcore group of hobby hackers that think this is cool, trust me, the vast majority of don't really care about the openness factor.
The vast majority, rather, are ignorant of what being totally closed means for them and their data. Of course, that's also what gives us the continued dominance of Windows. The openness -is- good and is totally orthogonal to the concept of the previously mentioned functional system that works without having to tinker.
We can have both, to dismiss such things (especially on a site like Slashdot) strikes me as a little silly.
The late June release that is expected will have an "open" and "closed" release. The "open" image will run on the N900 but omit some firmware and OpenGL/BME drivers. The closed image will include those, and will require a valid IMEI for the N900, and should provide 100% hardware functionality.
With luck the BME will be replaced, since it just controls a chip with plenty of publicly available documentation. OpenGL, well... until Imagination stops acting like Nvidia we're SOL.
Nokia is moving to MeeGo with their next device, but it will be a strange hybrid between Maemo and MeeGo, featuring the UI and Qt Toolkits prominently, but still using the Maemo backend. Future devices after that will use a pure MeeGo front-end.
Even then, they're already prepping Qt 4.7 for Maemo5 which means the core toolkit intended for MeeGo devices is available on a released device.
That said, it can't come soon enough. A well built, fully open and far more stable standard Linux stack is where I wanted devices to be years ago. Better late than never I suppose.
Re:The iPhone and finally walk and chew gum!
on
iOS 4 Releases Today
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
He can't, because aside from some market features (train pass, 1seg) there's nothing special whatsoever about Japanese phones. Tragic, really.
Slashdot Mirror
They do not. On OMAP based platforms, the baseband is a separate processor isolated from the applications processor. Qualcomm chips provide both in the same package as they create the baseband itself, while TI does not provide any baseband solutions.
And for the second time today, someone spouts this crap line. If this were in any way true, Nokia's N900 would need to be locked down just as hard, yet it is not.
This is not an FCC mandate forcing this lock down. This is Motorola trying to protect their (and Verizon's) branding against the owners of the devices.
If that was true, then Verizon would be demanding as such from HTC as well, yet even their newest HTC devices aren't locked down.
Motorola has a history of doing this, so it's no real surprise. That they didn't try out of the gate was a surprise.
This is Motorola's doing, as HTC's phones have similar security features in the CPU (bootloader encryption is enforced by TrustZone) and yet they don't use it.
Go back a couple years and you can find papers from Motorola discussing how to lock down the user environment against modification. They're all about locking users out of their property.
If that were in true in any way, shape, and form, then every other vendor would be doing the same. Only Motorola is taking this stance.
Which is isolated from the Android environment via serial or USB connection. This lockdown has -nothing- to do with the 3G baseband, which runs on its own processor with its own memory and storage.
"Brand protection"
They can ensure you don't remove MotoBlur, and the Verizon crap stays in place. Their branding is protected from you.
The greatest problem with the gyre is that the plastic in question is untold quadrillions of tiny, sometimes microscopic, bits of plastic that have broken down under UV light and descended somewhere in the water column. You would need to filter several meters deep to filter all the garbage out.
Of course, bean counters will kill this because it's unprofitable, and everyone else will ignore it because it's so far out to sea.
Well they have the capabilities down, but I don't think you'll get that level of durability with the complexity and size a smart phone requires.
With the caveat of being the only vendor for the platform, which is extremely tightly controlled.
Which speaks nothing to the hardware manufacturers, whom are abandoning handsets left and right and leaving it up to the community to forge ahead.
OK
Maemo was introduced back in 2005. The N900 was its first appearance on anything resembling a phone.
then ported Qt to Maemo and dropped GTK, then started porting Qt to next version of Symbian, then dropped Maemo and started work on Meego.
No. The Qt port to the N900 is an officially supported port present in the base install (as of PR1.2) as a compatibility layer with MeeGo. The base Maemo UI and interfaces are still done with GTK. Maemo is still alive, and will get one more iteration through this sort of "MeeGo-Harmattan" hybrid that will be on Nokia's next handset, with the following devices transitioning to MeeGo fully.
Qt. If you're an application developer, just think Qt and use the Qt development tools. Cross compilers for multiple architectures and target OSes are all included.
Undoubtedly, my suspicion is that the N900 was a skunk-works power play to light a fire under everyone else's asses, and I believe MeeGo and the Qt transition is the result.
They have? Really?
I'll buy this FUD when no more patches come out at all. IIRC, there's a 3rd one already in the pipe and fixes for Maemo are still going in.
The core of MeeGo will be fully functional, with closed platform-specific bits pushed to the fringes. Hardware support is essential, and at this point the necessary bits are available to device owners.
They can't. Bits like the 3D driver are held by a 3rd party that is very much not willing to go open with their sources. Sorta like Nvidia. This is, not coincidentally, why MeeGo's support for Intel graphics drivers is so good.
Within the next few months Ofono will be able to make calls with the N900, without any closed bits.
RIM and Microsoft are the ones who really have to be concerned. Apple will turn into a niche, though a very competitive one. Nokia however is pushing Symbian down the stack to their midrange and lower phones, reserving the high end for MeeGo, which holds to more "true Linux roots" than Android by being a common Linux stack from the kernel up through X.
That doesn't mean it's competitive, but it sure gives it one hell of a draw that many people lost once they realized Android was a Java-incompatible Java sandbox.
Only if it lets me use it with X.
I'd like to see the drivers opened such that I could have one less closed bit, but only having a kernel-side chunk open (or whatever bastardized process they have now) and the userspace stuff still locked to Android or whatever OS came on your device. Oh and to redistribute without being in violation of a license.
I'd love it if the PowerVR SGX drivers for my N900 had source. We could probably make them not suck and turn on VSync.
Indeed, it is amusing to watch them squirm and flounder in a market they don't have total dominance over. Watching them swing left and right, outright copying their competitors to try and regain a foothold in a market they got pushed out of. Fortunately, they don't have an incompetent competitor in the market like Sony to leave the door wide open.
I wonder if this is how MS would be if they weren't tops in the OS and Office suite world, would they be lurching left and right trying to find a place?
Too late for live listening, the audio will probably be up in the next day or so here:
http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/201006252
It might not die, but there would be a whole lot less. I don't think Sturgeon's law takes into account "love," so I would rather the averages be pumped up a bit.
After all, 1% of 100000 is way better than 1% of 1000.
For anyone interested, this is the topic of Science Friday on NPR -right now-.
I suppose I should clarify.
In the "DRM" mode, only the "extras" repository is available (and any a vendor may add,) and promotion to that requires your program be reviewed (in a far more open process than anything Apple can offer.) Abusive software like you mentioned is unlikely to pass muster.
The "unstable" repositories will only be addable in no-DRM mode, and you're on your own.
There will be a "DRM" mode, but there will also be an "Open" mode. The goal is to answer the whiny calls of media companies and the like and give them a "secure" platform, but not screw over those who use devices like the N900, which implements zero DRM. I fully plan on ensuring any device I buy can be switched to (and will quickly be switched to) a no-DRM mode.
You can send an SMS from the device right now via dbus. The call stack in Maemo is closed, but they're using oFono in MeeGo. I have no doubt the OS will give the user control but to say that it -must- be locked down in some fashion and they -must- deny the user control is nonsense.
Yes, to an OS wholly controlled by Google, not developed in anything resembling an open fashion, and forcing a pseudo-Java runtime with kernel extensions, a filesystem that were never meant to be open source in the first place, and a custom framebuffer system that isn't compatible with anything that already exists on Linux.
No thanks, I'd rather go for a system that has more in common with modern, open Linux distributions.
Garbage collection? Code better if you're using C/C++, or use Python. Sandboxing? Can be done without a pseudo-Java VM.
Except that there -will- be, like there is for Maemo, a community repository where less stable software can be made available.
Sure you won't get into the Ovi store or whatnot, but you will be able to make your software available without having to pass strict checklists if you really, really want to put it out there. Assuming your carrier or non-Nokia handset vendor isn't being an ass.
Which is how it should be, in the end.
The vast majority, rather, are ignorant of what being totally closed means for them and their data. Of course, that's also what gives us the continued dominance of Windows. The openness -is- good and is totally orthogonal to the concept of the previously mentioned functional system that works without having to tinker.
We can have both, to dismiss such things (especially on a site like Slashdot) strikes me as a little silly.
The late June release that is expected will have an "open" and "closed" release. The "open" image will run on the N900 but omit some firmware and OpenGL/BME drivers. The closed image will include those, and will require a valid IMEI for the N900, and should provide 100% hardware functionality.
With luck the BME will be replaced, since it just controls a chip with plenty of publicly available documentation. OpenGL, well... until Imagination stops acting like Nvidia we're SOL.
Nokia is moving to MeeGo with their next device, but it will be a strange hybrid between Maemo and MeeGo, featuring the UI and Qt Toolkits prominently, but still using the Maemo backend. Future devices after that will use a pure MeeGo front-end.
Even then, they're already prepping Qt 4.7 for Maemo5 which means the core toolkit intended for MeeGo devices is available on a released device.
That said, it can't come soon enough. A well built, fully open and far more stable standard Linux stack is where I wanted devices to be years ago. Better late than never I suppose.
He can't, because aside from some market features (train pass, 1seg) there's nothing special whatsoever about Japanese phones. Tragic, really.
/take control of the web/take action to prevent the destruction of the web at the hands of greedy ISPs/