For the longest time anytime I visited Twitter in Chrome I just get a blank page. I can easily see why people prefer almost anything else to their own interface...
Depends - it isn't chump change if you're talking about a startup with 10 employees. For whatever reason people talk about Twitter like it is a $10B company - so $30M/yr is like 1/300th of their price. Twitter's total income is like $120M/yr apparently, which is like a P/E of 100. Unless it shows sign of huge growth that seems significantly overvalued.
If anything I think the signs are that Twitter might start waning. I can't think of anything you can do with Twitter that you can't do better with Google+, and it isn't like my Aunt only reads posts on Twitter either which is what keeps Facebook strong.
Agreed 100%, but if anything that should encourage tariffs on the finished goods that are at least as high as on the components. If you care about the planet then you should penalize sending work to countries that don't have reasonable environmental controls. Otherwise your own environmental controls do zilch for the planet but they still destroy your economy. If first world countries want to have clean air they should do what they can to keep work at home or at other countries that have similar goals.
Yeah, but $25 PC boards enables a lot of experimentation beyond using MS Word or whatever, which is really a gateway to REAL computer science / engineering.
Experimentation is really the key to building enthusiasm and really developing skills. When I started becoming excited about computers it wasn't because somebody gave me a copy of a word processor. It was more stuff like this: 10 PRINT "HI! "; 20 GOTO 20
And the amusing thing is I wonder what percentage of kids with CS degrees today could correctly predict the output of that...:)
I think that many people who are overweight would rather die at the age of 70 with 20 million in medical bills than chain themselves up in a cage and be fed the required number of calories to avoid health issues. You or I might think that sounds odd, but chances are the reasons that we aren't underweight isn't because we are good people and they are bad people, but rather that for whatever reason our brains are wired differently.
Telling overweight people to lose weight is like telling people who are bad at math to do better on a math test. Easy to say, hard to do.
Well, they don't generally offer maintenance support either. How often does your desktop-based web browser get a security patch, and how often do you get them for your android browser? Do you think this is because the android browser doesn't contain any bugs? It wouldn't surprise me if most android phones more than a few months old have unpatched remote exploits.
I think the issue with new versions is that Android has been much more cutting edge than iOS in general, making hardware upgrades more important. I'm not sure I'd rather get upgrades for my two year old phone if it means that it still does basically the same stuff it did two years ago...
The grandparent was talking about college. You accused him of rejecting the value of knowledge. The two are entirely different things.
I think that college has very little return on investment these days. Sure, it has value, just as a 3 carat diamond has value. However, both are massively overpriced in comparison to their intrinsic value.
I'm all for learning, however. I do it all the time, but haven't taken a formal college class since completing the course requirements for a PhD. Somebody who seeks to obtain the benefits of knowledge without the cost of college is not cheapening knowledge - they're acknowledging that it alone is what gives a college education any value at all, and seeking to obtain the former without having to pay for the excess baggage of the latter.
If I want to be educated why not just audit the same courses at a significant discount and not receive the degree? If the degree is not meant to confer any kind of professional qualification then it is purely for bragging rights, and that is a lot to pay for them!
I have a friend whose daughter decided to pursue a trade, and many were encouraging her to go to college just for the enrichment. I encouraged her that this was VERY bad advice - she was much better off just getting training for her trade and then pursuing it and only taking courses that would truly give her a competitive advantage. A degree would have zero economic value to her. Once she has established herself with a professional salary (in less than the time it would take to go to college let alone hunt for a job), she could easily afford to take any night classes she desired. Since she would not need to obtain a degree she could take whatever classes interested her without any regard for some proscribed program of education (other than as advice).
I'm all for lifelong learning. I also like owning a car. However, at today's rate getting a college education is in most cases not unlike buying an Asten Martin - sure, it will get you to the grocery store, but at what cost?
Now, if you're going into a STEM career where that college education is both important and usually economically justifiable, then go ahead - that is just a capital investment.
Agreed. If you're talking about something like math or CS I could see there being a lot of opportunity.
Perhaps in genetics you could do data-based analysis using publicly-available datasets and find something others have missed.
However, in most physical and biological sciences noteworthy publications tend to have experiments associated with them. Even if I came up with strong evidence that some gene had some remarkable property based on analysis of DNA sequences in a public database, reviewers would ask the obvious question as to why I didn't create a knockout mouse or something to confirm it. Well, creating knockout mice isn't really something you can do in your kitchen, at least not if you don't want mutagens in your food and for that matter unless you have quite a bit of money.
Plus, I don't think that it is fair to say that somebody needs an extensive portfolio of peer-reviewed publications to be considered as a substitute for an undergraduate degree. It is rare for an undergraduate to have any serious contributions to peer-reviewed work (they might get their names on a paper if they are fortunate, but often with quite a bit of help). Indeed, even PhDs often only have a few reviewed publications and if you truly had an impressive portfolio of them you'd be more likely to be a candidate for a professorship at a top-10 school.
The only thing a typical undergraduate has really accomplished is that they've sat through many classes and got good marks on a series of tests. It makes you wonder why you couldn't just have an MCSE for Genetics, or whatever.
Yeah, but they didn't stop selling them 15/20 months ago. For something like the Nexus One dropping support for ICS is perhaps excusable even if it falls short of the iPhone support model, because it was only sold for a short time 1.5 years before the last update. However, the Galaxy S was sold in huge numbers over a considerable time and rebranded numerous times. So, the clock didn't really start ticking until maybe a year ago.
From my standpoint the clock for support starts ticking AFTER you STOP selling something. Supporting something while you're still selling it just makes your product not worthless while it is still on the shelves.
And as much as we all like to bash MS keep in mind that they support their desktop OSes for upwards of 10 years after they are already obsolete. You can still get windows updates for XP, after all.
I think their concern is more the opposite. They aren't afraid that they wouldn't be able to produce email - they're afraid that they WOULD have to produce email that they should have destroyed.
Many employers destroy email after a fairly short period of time - they define it as unofficial and not to be retained. They make sure that all emails and their backups are destroyed in accordance with this policy, so that if they are subpoenaed they can just point to the policy and say that they don't have anything to turn over, and an audit would show them to be in compliance with their policy. A court can tell them to stop deleting emails relevant to a case after the subpoena is issued, but they will not punish a company for deleting emails that it had no legal requirement to retain.
However, if the employee points out that their boss uses a gmail account and refers to some Google webpage that states that law enforcement can retrieve email for a period of a year or something, then a court would almost certainly allow them to subpoena copies of anything that Google has, and Google would turn them over.
As others have pointed out, if required to keep email the employer could do this on their end as long as the email at least passed through their servers, although if an employee sticks their gmail account on their business card then all bets are off...
Sorry - self-correction. I'm actually not sure if the Nexus One met my critiera of support for the duration of a contract. First, it wasn't subsidized anyway, and second, it wasn't sold for that long. However, I don't think it got updates for two years from the date of last sale, unlike every iPhone sold to date.
Plus, they only come out about once a year and tend to be pricey or even unsubsidized (and you don't save money without the subsidy except in certain circumstances that I can't take advantage of - when T-Mobile did offer them the math didn't make sense for a family plan).
I got my G2 for free (subsidized). The only Nexus option at the time that made sense was the Nexus S, which did not offer 4G, and which lacked a keyboard, and which cost $200. I just couldn't see spending $200 more for a phone I generally liked less just to get software updates a little longer (if you had bought a Nexus One a week before the Nexus S came out you wouldn't have even gotten a year's worth of software updates for it).
Software updates for the duration of all contracts sold with a phone should be the bare minimum. Sadly few phones measure up - not even the Nexus One.
Yup. The guy who turns out magnet wire for an MRI and the nurse who sticks IVs into your arm are arguably both in the healthcare industry, but clearly they have somewhat different skillsets.
The sad thing is that I'm pretty sure the TiVo is still the best DVR available. My mom has a DVR she gets through Verizon, and it's a complete piece of shit, where as the TiVo is only mostly shit.
It's really kind of sad, because if they only put a little bit of effort into bug fixes and polishing their interface, they could have a really system. But they just don't care.
Yup, this is why I moved to MythTV. I won't say that it is completely bug-free and it is tricky to set up, but now when something goes wrong I have half a chance of being able to fix it myself. The videos are just mpeg files (well, unless you transcode them - for some bizarre reason mythtv still uses NUV for that and the player is REALLY picky about keyframes). Once you get it working it pretty-much runs without a hitch.
So, that is true of every device that exists, and will ever exist, unless you use trusted computing and have no local exploits. Certainly this can be done on the iPhone and every other commercially-available smartphone.
You're basically talking about DRM, and that is theoretically impossible to implement perfectly, though in some cases it can be made reasonably difficult to bypass.
Well, that's nice if PayPal is refunding the cost out of their own pockets. However, what they did was only reverse one half of a transaction that had two sides to it.
Couldn't you just sue the US-based eBay in Canada, and then if you get a judgment go after their Canadian subsidiary to collect? If they don't show up you'd get a judgment of default. I can't imagine the Canadian court would accept dismissal in favor of US jurisdiction.
I would think an LCD image would be relatively immune to the effects of a 3T magnet (in comparison with a CRT - though you can run those only about 15 feet from such a magnet with some shielding). However, any metal in the device would still create a hazard, and most likely they pipe the optics to be safe and not have to certify their monitors/etc or use exotic non-ferromagnetic metals in them.
There are a lot of neat things you can do with fMRI. While in some ways they're more limited than NMRs there are a lot of neat things you can do because of the added spacial dimension. You can selectively excite stuff in one part of a subject and watch how it moves around (well, within a second or two), which is great for watching blood flow. You can also do a lot of neat stuff with Xenon isotopes (which interact with surfaces of things if you breathe them in right before having a scan done).
Disclaimer, while I've worked on largish NMRs in the past I do not have a great deal of direct MRI experience.
I remember in my undergraduate days having to make a salt pellet for FT-IR analysis (you mix a compound with KCl and compress it so that you end up with a semi-reflective surface that you reflect an IR beam off of). It is a pretty common analysis. The amusing thing was that we had this shaker you used to mix the salt with your compound to homogenize it. The shaker apparently cost 10x what any comparable piece of lab equipment would cost (it just was a motor and a little metal chamber with a metal bead in it) Apparently the same device is used to make dental amalgums, and hence it is sold at medical rates.
Half the cost of healthcare probably goes to these kinds of markups, often spent on insurance, lawyers, and LOADS of paperwork.
And when you need a scan, your bill will show an $8,000.00 medical imaging cost to the insurance company, while your out of pocket will be $2,000.00. And since it is patented, nobody will be able to raise the capital to compete for many years to come.
A few corrections. Your bill will show an $8000 invoice sent to the insurance company. The insurance company will then send an explanation of benefits which states that they will pay $800, you will pay $200, and the biller can forget about the other $7k. If you don't have insurance then you'll just directly get a bill for $8k, and then you'll beg and plead with them on the phone and they'll offer to give you a special discount and only charge you $2k and you'll think you're getting a good deal because the hospital is nice to patients unlike the money-loving insurance company (not realizing they're still charging you double what anybody who knows better would pay).
As far as patents go - I agree and disagree. The patents will stifle competition, but chances are that somebody else will figure out how to make something similar. However, by the time they do all the testing necessary to get the FDA to approve it and insurance companies to pay for it they'll also be charging $100k for the device and the situation will have only improved marginally.
I think that is a sort-of thing. If you don't actually market it as a medical device, then it isn't regulated as a medical device. You can use 50 cent light-bulbs in a hospital room, for example. Of course, using something not certified as a medical device to make a diagnosis could subject you to liability, so there is a line to walk. Oh, and most insurers won't pay for things that aren't certified. So, if you're charging for an office visit and the doctor pulls out one of these then that wouldn't matter much, but if you're a diagnostic center and you want to bill simply for doing the scan, then forget it most likely.
Did you even read the post you replied to? You're both saying the same thing. You both maintain that soldiers are required by law to follow the orders of a superior, unless that order is contrary to the UCMJ/etc. You just said it in different words.
Sure, but that is a matter of state, not religion. I fully uphold the right of any religious body to recognize any marriage ceremony as being null and void. I also fully uphold the rights of anybody to get legally married as long as they are able to make an informed decision. Further, I'd personally prefer it if the government just got out of the regulation of marriage entirely since I don't see how it has any civil purpose at all - if people want to hold their property in common they can create a contract to that effect, and custody law already applies regardless of whether people are married when they procreate. If you eliminate all government regulation or recognition of marriage then the whole mess goes away and everybody can do as they feel is right.
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For the longest time anytime I visited Twitter in Chrome I just get a blank page. I can easily see why people prefer almost anything else to their own interface...
Depends - it isn't chump change if you're talking about a startup with 10 employees. For whatever reason people talk about Twitter like it is a $10B company - so $30M/yr is like 1/300th of their price. Twitter's total income is like $120M/yr apparently, which is like a P/E of 100. Unless it shows sign of huge growth that seems significantly overvalued.
If anything I think the signs are that Twitter might start waning. I can't think of anything you can do with Twitter that you can't do better with Google+, and it isn't like my Aunt only reads posts on Twitter either which is what keeps Facebook strong.
Agreed 100%, but if anything that should encourage tariffs on the finished goods that are at least as high as on the components. If you care about the planet then you should penalize sending work to countries that don't have reasonable environmental controls. Otherwise your own environmental controls do zilch for the planet but they still destroy your economy. If first world countries want to have clean air they should do what they can to keep work at home or at other countries that have similar goals.
Yeah, but $25 PC boards enables a lot of experimentation beyond using MS Word or whatever, which is really a gateway to REAL computer science / engineering.
Experimentation is really the key to building enthusiasm and really developing skills. When I started becoming excited about computers it wasn't because somebody gave me a copy of a word processor. It was more stuff like this:
10 PRINT "HI! ";
20 GOTO 20
And the amusing thing is I wonder what percentage of kids with CS degrees today could correctly predict the output of that... :)
Well, they can always move it back a minute if Obama gets re-elected. Maybe give him another Peace Prize while we're at it? :)
I think that many people who are overweight would rather die at the age of 70 with 20 million in medical bills than chain themselves up in a cage and be fed the required number of calories to avoid health issues. You or I might think that sounds odd, but chances are the reasons that we aren't underweight isn't because we are good people and they are bad people, but rather that for whatever reason our brains are wired differently.
Telling overweight people to lose weight is like telling people who are bad at math to do better on a math test. Easy to say, hard to do.
Well, they don't generally offer maintenance support either. How often does your desktop-based web browser get a security patch, and how often do you get them for your android browser? Do you think this is because the android browser doesn't contain any bugs? It wouldn't surprise me if most android phones more than a few months old have unpatched remote exploits.
I think the issue with new versions is that Android has been much more cutting edge than iOS in general, making hardware upgrades more important. I'm not sure I'd rather get upgrades for my two year old phone if it means that it still does basically the same stuff it did two years ago...
The usual purpose of attending college...
The grandparent was talking about college. You accused him of rejecting the value of knowledge. The two are entirely different things.
I think that college has very little return on investment these days. Sure, it has value, just as a 3 carat diamond has value. However, both are massively overpriced in comparison to their intrinsic value.
I'm all for learning, however. I do it all the time, but haven't taken a formal college class since completing the course requirements for a PhD. Somebody who seeks to obtain the benefits of knowledge without the cost of college is not cheapening knowledge - they're acknowledging that it alone is what gives a college education any value at all, and seeking to obtain the former without having to pay for the excess baggage of the latter.
So, then, what is the purpose of a degree anyway?
If I want to be educated why not just audit the same courses at a significant discount and not receive the degree? If the degree is not meant to confer any kind of professional qualification then it is purely for bragging rights, and that is a lot to pay for them!
I have a friend whose daughter decided to pursue a trade, and many were encouraging her to go to college just for the enrichment. I encouraged her that this was VERY bad advice - she was much better off just getting training for her trade and then pursuing it and only taking courses that would truly give her a competitive advantage. A degree would have zero economic value to her. Once she has established herself with a professional salary (in less than the time it would take to go to college let alone hunt for a job), she could easily afford to take any night classes she desired. Since she would not need to obtain a degree she could take whatever classes interested her without any regard for some proscribed program of education (other than as advice).
I'm all for lifelong learning. I also like owning a car. However, at today's rate getting a college education is in most cases not unlike buying an Asten Martin - sure, it will get you to the grocery store, but at what cost?
Now, if you're going into a STEM career where that college education is both important and usually economically justifiable, then go ahead - that is just a capital investment.
Agreed. If you're talking about something like math or CS I could see there being a lot of opportunity.
Perhaps in genetics you could do data-based analysis using publicly-available datasets and find something others have missed.
However, in most physical and biological sciences noteworthy publications tend to have experiments associated with them. Even if I came up with strong evidence that some gene had some remarkable property based on analysis of DNA sequences in a public database, reviewers would ask the obvious question as to why I didn't create a knockout mouse or something to confirm it. Well, creating knockout mice isn't really something you can do in your kitchen, at least not if you don't want mutagens in your food and for that matter unless you have quite a bit of money.
Plus, I don't think that it is fair to say that somebody needs an extensive portfolio of peer-reviewed publications to be considered as a substitute for an undergraduate degree. It is rare for an undergraduate to have any serious contributions to peer-reviewed work (they might get their names on a paper if they are fortunate, but often with quite a bit of help). Indeed, even PhDs often only have a few reviewed publications and if you truly had an impressive portfolio of them you'd be more likely to be a candidate for a professorship at a top-10 school.
The only thing a typical undergraduate has really accomplished is that they've sat through many classes and got good marks on a series of tests. It makes you wonder why you couldn't just have an MCSE for Genetics, or whatever.
Yeah, but they didn't stop selling them 15/20 months ago. For something like the Nexus One dropping support for ICS is perhaps excusable even if it falls short of the iPhone support model, because it was only sold for a short time 1.5 years before the last update. However, the Galaxy S was sold in huge numbers over a considerable time and rebranded numerous times. So, the clock didn't really start ticking until maybe a year ago.
From my standpoint the clock for support starts ticking AFTER you STOP selling something. Supporting something while you're still selling it just makes your product not worthless while it is still on the shelves.
And as much as we all like to bash MS keep in mind that they support their desktop OSes for upwards of 10 years after they are already obsolete. You can still get windows updates for XP, after all.
I think their concern is more the opposite. They aren't afraid that they wouldn't be able to produce email - they're afraid that they WOULD have to produce email that they should have destroyed.
Many employers destroy email after a fairly short period of time - they define it as unofficial and not to be retained. They make sure that all emails and their backups are destroyed in accordance with this policy, so that if they are subpoenaed they can just point to the policy and say that they don't have anything to turn over, and an audit would show them to be in compliance with their policy. A court can tell them to stop deleting emails relevant to a case after the subpoena is issued, but they will not punish a company for deleting emails that it had no legal requirement to retain.
However, if the employee points out that their boss uses a gmail account and refers to some Google webpage that states that law enforcement can retrieve email for a period of a year or something, then a court would almost certainly allow them to subpoena copies of anything that Google has, and Google would turn them over.
As others have pointed out, if required to keep email the employer could do this on their end as long as the email at least passed through their servers, although if an employee sticks their gmail account on their business card then all bets are off...
Sorry - self-correction. I'm actually not sure if the Nexus One met my critiera of support for the duration of a contract. First, it wasn't subsidized anyway, and second, it wasn't sold for that long. However, I don't think it got updates for two years from the date of last sale, unlike every iPhone sold to date.
Plus, they only come out about once a year and tend to be pricey or even unsubsidized (and you don't save money without the subsidy except in certain circumstances that I can't take advantage of - when T-Mobile did offer them the math didn't make sense for a family plan).
I got my G2 for free (subsidized). The only Nexus option at the time that made sense was the Nexus S, which did not offer 4G, and which lacked a keyboard, and which cost $200. I just couldn't see spending $200 more for a phone I generally liked less just to get software updates a little longer (if you had bought a Nexus One a week before the Nexus S came out you wouldn't have even gotten a year's worth of software updates for it).
Software updates for the duration of all contracts sold with a phone should be the bare minimum. Sadly few phones measure up - not even the Nexus One.
Yup. The guy who turns out magnet wire for an MRI and the nurse who sticks IVs into your arm are arguably both in the healthcare industry, but clearly they have somewhat different skillsets.
The sad thing is that I'm pretty sure the TiVo is still the best DVR available. My mom has a DVR she gets through Verizon, and it's a complete piece of shit, where as the TiVo is only mostly shit.
It's really kind of sad, because if they only put a little bit of effort into bug fixes and polishing their interface, they could have a really system. But they just don't care.
Yup, this is why I moved to MythTV. I won't say that it is completely bug-free and it is tricky to set up, but now when something goes wrong I have half a chance of being able to fix it myself. The videos are just mpeg files (well, unless you transcode them - for some bizarre reason mythtv still uses NUV for that and the player is REALLY picky about keyframes). Once you get it working it pretty-much runs without a hitch.
So, that is true of every device that exists, and will ever exist, unless you use trusted computing and have no local exploits. Certainly this can be done on the iPhone and every other commercially-available smartphone.
You're basically talking about DRM, and that is theoretically impossible to implement perfectly, though in some cases it can be made reasonably difficult to bypass.
Well, that's nice if PayPal is refunding the cost out of their own pockets. However, what they did was only reverse one half of a transaction that had two sides to it.
Couldn't you just sue the US-based eBay in Canada, and then if you get a judgment go after their Canadian subsidiary to collect? If they don't show up you'd get a judgment of default. I can't imagine the Canadian court would accept dismissal in favor of US jurisdiction.
I would think an LCD image would be relatively immune to the effects of a 3T magnet (in comparison with a CRT - though you can run those only about 15 feet from such a magnet with some shielding). However, any metal in the device would still create a hazard, and most likely they pipe the optics to be safe and not have to certify their monitors/etc or use exotic non-ferromagnetic metals in them.
There are a lot of neat things you can do with fMRI. While in some ways they're more limited than NMRs there are a lot of neat things you can do because of the added spacial dimension. You can selectively excite stuff in one part of a subject and watch how it moves around (well, within a second or two), which is great for watching blood flow. You can also do a lot of neat stuff with Xenon isotopes (which interact with surfaces of things if you breathe them in right before having a scan done).
Disclaimer, while I've worked on largish NMRs in the past I do not have a great deal of direct MRI experience.
I remember in my undergraduate days having to make a salt pellet for FT-IR analysis (you mix a compound with KCl and compress it so that you end up with a semi-reflective surface that you reflect an IR beam off of). It is a pretty common analysis. The amusing thing was that we had this shaker you used to mix the salt with your compound to homogenize it. The shaker apparently cost 10x what any comparable piece of lab equipment would cost (it just was a motor and a little metal chamber with a metal bead in it) Apparently the same device is used to make dental amalgums, and hence it is sold at medical rates.
Half the cost of healthcare probably goes to these kinds of markups, often spent on insurance, lawyers, and LOADS of paperwork.
And when you need a scan, your bill will show an $8,000.00 medical imaging cost to the insurance company, while your out of pocket will be $2,000.00. And since it is patented, nobody will be able to raise the capital to compete for many years to come.
A few corrections. Your bill will show an $8000 invoice sent to the insurance company. The insurance company will then send an explanation of benefits which states that they will pay $800, you will pay $200, and the biller can forget about the other $7k. If you don't have insurance then you'll just directly get a bill for $8k, and then you'll beg and plead with them on the phone and they'll offer to give you a special discount and only charge you $2k and you'll think you're getting a good deal because the hospital is nice to patients unlike the money-loving insurance company (not realizing they're still charging you double what anybody who knows better would pay).
As far as patents go - I agree and disagree. The patents will stifle competition, but chances are that somebody else will figure out how to make something similar. However, by the time they do all the testing necessary to get the FDA to approve it and insurance companies to pay for it they'll also be charging $100k for the device and the situation will have only improved marginally.
I think that is a sort-of thing. If you don't actually market it as a medical device, then it isn't regulated as a medical device. You can use 50 cent light-bulbs in a hospital room, for example. Of course, using something not certified as a medical device to make a diagnosis could subject you to liability, so there is a line to walk. Oh, and most insurers won't pay for things that aren't certified. So, if you're charging for an office visit and the doctor pulls out one of these then that wouldn't matter much, but if you're a diagnostic center and you want to bill simply for doing the scan, then forget it most likely.
Did you even read the post you replied to? You're both saying the same thing. You both maintain that soldiers are required by law to follow the orders of a superior, unless that order is contrary to the UCMJ/etc. You just said it in different words.
Sure, but that is a matter of state, not religion. I fully uphold the right of any religious body to recognize any marriage ceremony as being null and void. I also fully uphold the rights of anybody to get legally married as long as they are able to make an informed decision. Further, I'd personally prefer it if the government just got out of the regulation of marriage entirely since I don't see how it has any civil purpose at all - if people want to hold their property in common they can create a contract to that effect, and custody law already applies regardless of whether people are married when they procreate. If you eliminate all government regulation or recognition of marriage then the whole mess goes away and everybody can do as they feel is right.