I have no agenda other than the truth. And the truth is, either you were lied to or you are mis-representing the policy. To quote:
Apple reserves the right to test returned DOA product. If the condition of the product is misrepresented by the customer, Apple may impose a $400 handling fee.
In other words, if you lie that it's DOA, and have them send you a box and a replacement unit, they will charge you. Note that the policy you point to refers to online and telesales orders and that Apple has a seperate set of policies for retail sales. Since you were at a retail store, it would be impossible for you to have this imposed as a tech would verify and declare DOA before you got a new machine.
Because reporting something you believe is suspicious to the police is a bad thing right? Question, would you prefer the police mostly act on their own hunches or on the reports of citizens?
A completely off base analogy. More apt would be if you go to a shooting range which merely has a firing line rather than a table. If you cross the firing line into the actual range, should the range owner be responsible for injuries you sustain? You said that you believed that bar owners shouldnt' be liable for nicks and scratches their customers recieve, what makes second hand smoke any different?
And who pray tell in the following senario is the negligent and reckless one:
Partron walks into a restraunt. In said bar, there are people smoking at their tables. The waitress asks the patron whether he would prefer a smoking or non smoking section of the restraunt thus verbaly informing the patron that people smoke in the establishment. The patron, knowing and being very concerned about the dangers of second hand smoke, chooses to still patronize the restraunt, not just this once, but many more times.
Strawman ahoy. If I walk into a restraunt, I can immediately and visably tell if they allow smoking (even better, they tell me verbaly when they ask if I prefere smoking or non). It is a visible and obvious danger and I am choosing to accept that danger. You sneaking things into my food is not a visible nor obvious danger and you have not given me a chance to accept or not accept such dangers.
Now if I order the "Clam Chowder and Human Feces" soup, then I have accepted such a risk.
I realize this is slashdot but please take care to note the subtle differences between your projected argument and my actual argument if you wish to argue.
But everyone knows the risks associated with smoke. Period. It's taught from grade school. And there is no reasonable right to expect to not be exposed to such risks or the consequences thereof when patronizing a place which allows smoking.
They can't. The story is either a lie or leaving out details. Apple will take back any defective product within 14 days of purchase without restocking fees. After that, it's a waranty claim and must be handled by the technicians. That said, DOA still has to be verified by the techs, which leads to a few senarios based on this story:
1) It was within 14 days, but did not appear DOA, therefore a restocking fee would apply for the return. Such is policy when buying expensive electronics.
2) It was within 14 days, and he did not want to wait for the technicians to certify DOA. His problem. Just because he says it doesn't work does not mean it's so. Any company will first ask to verify defect before returning a product as such.
3) It was outside 14 days but he had some moderately reasonable excuse as to why he didn't make it back in 14 days. That they were willing to let him exchange it at all is a matter of luck for him and the restocking fee is again policy when buying expensive electronics.
FWIW having your computer diagnosed at the genius bar is still free. My experience with Apple Care has been it's always in how you approach them. Remember that they have the power to make or ruin your day. Treat them with respect and with respect for the things they have to do (like read the script) and your whole process goes much smoother and much faster. Having spent my time in the service and repair industries, the customers who always took the longest to get things done and who always had the hardest times were the one's who insisted they knew all and demanded the processes bent to their terms.
What about the part of the social contract that includes responsibility for acceptance of risks. Unlike faulty wiring and tollerance of fighting, it is quite obvious when you enter a building that allows smoking inside. Further the dangers posed are well known and public knowledge, not some obscure electrical code. By patronizing the establishment, you are acknowledging the risks inherrent and continuing regardless. Is a theme park manager liable when a person with a heart condition gets on a roller coaster despite the warnings and signs?
1) Why did you open your business next to a smoker's club?
2) Air filters, buy them, love them
3) Owning your own business does not give you a right to dictate who your neighbors are. If it did, you would never see a McDonalds near a Burger King.
4) Have you ever been in one building where smoking was allowed in the building next door? Negligable smoke drift. If the little that there is bothers you, you need to be investing in air filters anyway because the exhaust from the cars on the street will be killing you.
Honestly it's because you picked New Hapshire. It's cold up north and not everyone wants to live there. Should have picked a place with more moderate temperatures.
Why is it indefenseable? What right does the employee have to the job unless it was in the hiring contract? Should there be a ban on radio shack asking for zip codes because it violates an employee's ideologies about privacy to ask customers for such?
It's not subverting the electoral process. The whole point of having independant states is to be able to move to a place which suits your level of law. Idealy we should have states that range from complete facism to complete anarchy and everyone should be able to find a place which suits them. Realisticaly, the federal government has fucked that up.
But he was explicitly told that he personaly was not allowed to use the service. Therefore regardless of whether they charged others for the service he was commiting theft of service.
Because he was explicitly told that he was not allowed to use the service. If you enter a store during public business hours, you are not trespassing. If you are told by the owner or police to leave the store and that you are not allowed back, and then you enter the store again, that is trespassing. Same concept.
Hardly, from the GPs quote, after three months, the coffe shop had the police tell him to stop using the AP. At that point it is no longer an open AP to him. He was told in no uncertain terms that he was unwelcome on that AP. He then came back. That is theft of service.
The person I was replying to seemed to imply the cultural differences have no bearing here that no one should be working 15 hours a day. The point was that cultural differences do have a bearing on what is acceptable and what is not.
Have you looked at the cost of a college dorm? Sharing an apartment (bigger) with 4 other people (as opposed to 100) and private bathrooms for all (as opposed to communal) with electrcity, water, highspeed internet and cable was ~$100 more / month in NC last I looked, and that was using the cost for a state college dorm, with no A/C and 2 people to a room. I could easily see dorm living + food equaling ~50% of income.
In the zipcode of 27695 here in north carolina, many many residents rent a building with a few hundred people. They are given rooms of about 8' X 6' and have communal bathrooms and showers. They have a monthly income of less than $300 / month and most of them are deeply in personal debt. Did I mention their actual living costs are well over $1,000 / month.
Slashdot Mirror
I have no agenda other than the truth. And the truth is, either you were lied to or you are mis-representing the policy. To quote:
Apple reserves the right to test returned DOA product. If the condition of the product is misrepresented by the customer, Apple may impose a $400 handling fee.
In other words, if you lie that it's DOA, and have them send you a box and a replacement unit, they will charge you. Note that the policy you point to refers to online and telesales orders and that Apple has a seperate set of policies for retail sales. Since you were at a retail store, it would be impossible for you to have this imposed as a tech would verify and declare DOA before you got a new machine.
Then you need to turn arround a point them to their own sales policies:
u s.html
http://www.apple.com/legal/sales_policies/retail_
Apple has no such $400 policy. Unless you can point me to the policy / contract stating such, I stand by my original assertation.
Two minds.
A police man acting on a whim or hunch requires only himself to act. A citizen requires finding a like minded officer.
Because reporting something you believe is suspicious to the police is a bad thing right? Question, would you prefer the police mostly act on their own hunches or on the reports of citizens?
A completely off base analogy. More apt would be if you go to a shooting range which merely has a firing line rather than a table. If you cross the firing line into the actual range, should the range owner be responsible for injuries you sustain? You said that you believed that bar owners shouldnt' be liable for nicks and scratches their customers recieve, what makes second hand smoke any different?
And who pray tell in the following senario is the negligent and reckless one:
Partron walks into a restraunt. In said bar, there are people smoking at their tables. The waitress asks the patron whether he would prefer a smoking or non smoking section of the restraunt thus verbaly informing the patron that people smoke in the establishment. The patron, knowing and being very concerned about the dangers of second hand smoke, chooses to still patronize the restraunt, not just this once, but many more times.
Strawman ahoy. If I walk into a restraunt, I can immediately and visably tell if they allow smoking (even better, they tell me verbaly when they ask if I prefere smoking or non). It is a visible and obvious danger and I am choosing to accept that danger. You sneaking things into my food is not a visible nor obvious danger and you have not given me a chance to accept or not accept such dangers.
Now if I order the "Clam Chowder and Human Feces" soup, then I have accepted such a risk.
I realize this is slashdot but please take care to note the subtle differences between your projected argument and my actual argument if you wish to argue.
But everyone knows the risks associated with smoke. Period. It's taught from grade school. And there is no reasonable right to expect to not be exposed to such risks or the consequences thereof when patronizing a place which allows smoking.
They can't. The story is either a lie or leaving out details. Apple will take back any defective product within 14 days of purchase without restocking fees. After that, it's a waranty claim and must be handled by the technicians. That said, DOA still has to be verified by the techs, which leads to a few senarios based on this story:
1) It was within 14 days, but did not appear DOA, therefore a restocking fee would apply for the return. Such is policy when buying expensive electronics.
2) It was within 14 days, and he did not want to wait for the technicians to certify DOA. His problem. Just because he says it doesn't work does not mean it's so. Any company will first ask to verify defect before returning a product as such.
3) It was outside 14 days but he had some moderately reasonable excuse as to why he didn't make it back in 14 days. That they were willing to let him exchange it at all is a matter of luck for him and the restocking fee is again policy when buying expensive electronics.
FWIW having your computer diagnosed at the genius bar is still free. My experience with Apple Care has been it's always in how you approach them. Remember that they have the power to make or ruin your day. Treat them with respect and with respect for the things they have to do (like read the script) and your whole process goes much smoother and much faster. Having spent my time in the service and repair industries, the customers who always took the longest to get things done and who always had the hardest times were the one's who insisted they knew all and demanded the processes bent to their terms.
What about the part of the social contract that includes responsibility for acceptance of risks. Unlike faulty wiring and tollerance of fighting, it is quite obvious when you enter a building that allows smoking inside. Further the dangers posed are well known and public knowledge, not some obscure electrical code. By patronizing the establishment, you are acknowledging the risks inherrent and continuing regardless. Is a theme park manager liable when a person with a heart condition gets on a roller coaster despite the warnings and signs?
1) Why did you open your business next to a smoker's club?
2) Air filters, buy them, love them
3) Owning your own business does not give you a right to dictate who your neighbors are. If it did, you would never see a McDonalds near a Burger King.
4) Have you ever been in one building where smoking was allowed in the building next door? Negligable smoke drift. If the little that there is bothers you, you need to be investing in air filters anyway because the exhaust from the cars on the street will be killing you.
Why is the owner liable? Neither the patrons NOR the employees are required to be there.
Honestly it's because you picked New Hapshire. It's cold up north and not everyone wants to live there. Should have picked a place with more moderate temperatures.
Why is it indefenseable? What right does the employee have to the job unless it was in the hiring contract? Should there be a ban on radio shack asking for zip codes because it violates an employee's ideologies about privacy to ask customers for such?
It's not subverting the electoral process. The whole point of having independant states is to be able to move to a place which suits your level of law. Idealy we should have states that range from complete facism to complete anarchy and everyone should be able to find a place which suits them. Realisticaly, the federal government has fucked that up.
They can go somewhere else. No one forces you to eat at any particular restraunt, and you have no right to tell an owner he can't allow smoking there.
Negative, but the emphisis is (or is supposed to be) on states.
But he was explicitly told that he personaly was not allowed to use the service. Therefore regardless of whether they charged others for the service he was commiting theft of service.
Because he was explicitly told that he was not allowed to use the service. If you enter a store during public business hours, you are not trespassing. If you are told by the owner or police to leave the store and that you are not allowed back, and then you enter the store again, that is trespassing. Same concept.
Hardly, from the GPs quote, after three months, the coffe shop had the police tell him to stop using the AP. At that point it is no longer an open AP to him. He was told in no uncertain terms that he was unwelcome on that AP. He then came back. That is theft of service.
theft of service is a legitimate legal term. And this is easily construed as theft of service.
Don't get me wrong, I hope the government takes appropriate action, but
Out of curiosity, when was the last time the government took appropriate action?
The person I was replying to seemed to imply the cultural differences have no bearing here that no one should be working 15 hours a day. The point was that cultural differences do have a bearing on what is acceptable and what is not.
Have you looked at the cost of a college dorm? Sharing an apartment (bigger) with 4 other people (as opposed to 100) and private bathrooms for all (as opposed to communal) with electrcity, water, highspeed internet and cable was ~$100 more / month in NC last I looked, and that was using the cost for a state college dorm, with no A/C and 2 people to a room. I could easily see dorm living + food equaling ~50% of income.
In the zipcode of 27695 here in north carolina, many many residents rent a building with a few hundred people. They are given rooms of about 8' X 6' and have communal bathrooms and showers. They have a monthly income of less than $300 / month and most of them are deeply in personal debt. Did I mention their actual living costs are well over $1,000 / month.
Context is everything my friend.