"I dare you to come up with an example where keyboard is needed"
Typing in a URL? It's something I tend to do a lot. As well as fill in forms a lot. Just my typical useage pattern, I guess. But there's also interacting beyond your web browser, when you are still using it. For example, as a Java programmer, I'm alwyas using Javadoc (if you're not familiar with it, Javadoc is massively useful, HTML-based, API documentation). Here, keyboard navigation is essential when switching between the emacs and the browser to refer to the docs, then switching back to hammer some more code out. Decent keyboard nav makes this process much, much faster.
The difference being, of course, that a MDI is always there, always taking up screen real-estate, which sucks.
Moz's tabs are prefect because when I do use them, it's for collating related pages together which I can easily flip through (./ articles, Google search results, Javadoc, etc). But when I'm not using them, the tabs are not there, not wasing screen space. Wonderful!
Yep, I wasn't dissing Opera's kbd navigation.. I was just saying that I prefer avoiding using the mouse whenever possible.. there is bugger all I need the mouse for in Moz as well, BTW.
I would like to point out a semantic difference, however. Opera had an *MDI* before Mozilla had tabs, but Opera didn't have tabs until after Moz first implemented them. Big difference.
Anyway, I must be diametrically opposed to you - I hate using a mouse and avoid it whenever I can. I find I operate a computer much faster that way.
True. But your first post is content-free as well, to paraphrase: "Sendmail sucks, the others rock." Hardly a good argument..;)
But honestly, how is the config file non-productive? The M4 isn't as nice as say, Apache's config, but it's pretty damm easy, err, productive. I wouldn't call my 15-line sendmail config file overly complex or hard to read or maintain, in any case.
/mike
PS: okay, I promise to never mention you mum again..
"I apologize. There was no need for me to be that snippy."
Cheers, no problem.
"- Display of HTML mail"
Hmm, although it won't be in 1.0, Moz now does a similar thing. You can specify displaying the full HTML, simple HTML or as plain text. I agree that this is a very useful feature, and is why I'll still be using nightly builds when 1.0 FCS comes out.
"- Seamless integration of GPG"
Good point. That is the one thing Moz suxx0rs at. It has S/MIME support built in, which is good for work, but the Enigmail plugin which provides GPG support needs to get written to use the crypto plugin hooks. This isn't a dire issue for me (though I realize it should be).
"- Seamless use of an IMAP server"
Ahh, Moz already does this, and does it well. Again, another essential feature.
"Well, that's one way to look at it. But would you say that WordPerfect for Windows is a copy of Word for Windows?"
Given that (IIRC) WP came out long before Word did, I'd say Word is a copy of WP. 8)
"But it is not fair to dismiss him as a talentless hack who only copies Microsoft ideas, and it is premature to dismiss Mono as a bad idea."
I don't want to al all. He started GNOME and Ximian, which has produced a good desktop environment and many useful applications, and done a lot of OSS in general.
As I said in my first post, I'm curious as to why he has this obsession with MS products and technologies. I think that while cloning an existing app or technologies has advantages, it also has disadvantages, and I think teh latter outweight the former.
"Give MS their props: they don't randomly sue people, like some other companies *cough* Apple *cough*."
Yeah, I agree, but note that you are replying to text I quoted, not text that I wrote...
"But why would you care that it looks like a non-free program?"
I don't care that it looks like a non-free program. I *do* care that it looks like another program which I don't like. I put the "non-free" bit in because it sounded better (from an English language POV) than writing "Outlook" again.
"If your problems with Evolution are minor"
My problems with Evolution are three fold: I dislike the UI, and it gives me nothing more than Mozilla gives me (I don't need calendaring or a contacts db, vfolders or an executive summary), and several things I don't want (a bad UI, no bi-directional integration with my web browser). I have no to switch to it.
"and no one (including Miguel) really cares whether you like to use it or not."
Ahh, that's where I was confused - I though *I* was the center of the world. Thanks for setting things straight. And to think, I was just participating in a discussion.
"This is mildly funny but uncalled-for. GNOME, Evolution, and Gnumeric are all truly great programs, and they all were needed IMHO."
Gnumeric is needed, because there isn't another decent GUI spreadsheet out there. Evolution is nice, but there are other email, calendar and contact apps out there. I wouldn't say it is truly great, however. Several of my co-workers use Evolution, and from what I've heard, it still needs work.
"I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude about Mono, but Miguel's track record so far is pretty damn impressive."
[shrug]
Miguel/Ximian has sucessfully created copies of two existing applications. He hasn't innovated - he's copied. Sure, GNOME is doing pretty well (and it is my preferred desktop environment), but Miguel isn't responsible for 100% of it, and from my perspective he hasn't had much to do with recent development. His track record is good, much better than mine, but not impressive.
"Sendmail? People still use that trash? Insecure bloatware with obscure, totally non-productive configuration syntax."
Well, well, well... *someone* never figured out how to configure sendmail properly, did they? Don't be bitter about it, we all have our failings...
BTW, the colour red suxx0rs, your {car|bicycle|scooter} is unsafe trash, and yo' momma uses obscure, totally non-productive configuration syntax. I got over it, you should too.
"Although...putting sendmail on a gui? Now that's scary =)"
Heh, I dunno, I can see sendmail being a perfectly usable form of IPC - or maybe even RPC - your sendmail-based Sendmail Administration GUI, running on your workstation, uses sendmail to message the RPC-listener instance of sendmail running on your server, which then communicates to the MTA-instance of sendmail via/var/spool/mqueue.
What a system! Sure the hell beats the pants off using SOAP for RPC.;)
"if you had the choice of selling this app [...] which do you think companies are gonna go with?"
I was selling it to other companies, I'd definitely want a GUI on it - it's impossible to sell anything to PHBs without a GUI.
If I was choosing a product for my own use or for my own (hypothetical) company, then I'd get one which had a decent text-based config file and a purely optional GUI for administration. And I sure as hell wouldn't pay any more for the interface.
Personally, I'm of the 3llt, snobbish opinion that if you can't work out the arcane config file, then you shouldn't be trying to configure the thing. The config files are barriers of entry to keep all the clueless weenies out. Don't know how to configure sendmail or bind? Then keep the hell away from my mail or name server!
"Part of the reason you'd emulate what the majority of people are using is to make it easier for them to transition to your software."
Yeah, but if your product is an exact carbon copy of someone else's, then there is one less incentive to switch. The only other real advantage Free Software has is the free b33r aspect - but most home users and many business users I know didn't pay of Outlook, and so won't care that it is free.
So, someone using Outlook decides to evaluate Evolution, and I could imagine the tally would go something like: it looks the same (+0), costs the same (+0), is new, and hence scary (-1), must install new OS (-10). The end result is MS: 1 Ximian: 0.
I agree that the story for companies is different, but there is often a lot of interia against switching a core app such as an email/calendaring client. Whilst the training required would be reduced because of the similar UI, training is going to be required anyway (as a switch from Windows to a UN*X will generally also be involved) - so you don't gain much from the CC'ed interface. You then lose points because there is visibly little to differenciate your product from the existing one, which never helps to overcome the initial corporate inertia.
The other factor is that Ximian will be forever playing catch-up with MS, they will never be in the lead unless they actually go off and do their own slighly-less-MS-like thing. This never helps.
"Am I the only person that wonders why MS hasn't sued the crap out of Ximian yet?"
Sort of. I don't know why MS hasn't sued them, but I'm more curious as to why Miguel/Ximian insists on copying *everything* MS does. I have a strong dislike of Outlook's UI, and so there's no chance I'm going to use Evolution - it looks exactly the same as it's non-free competitor. Yiick!
Gnumeric of course was the first such example. Use a windows-like GTK theme and you'll have trouble telling the difference between it and Excel. Doesn't Gnumeric also use a VB-like scripting language? I know the function library is very similar.
Then there's the whole Mono/.NET thing. C#, the intermediate format, the runtime - it's all a Java clone, but dancing to MS's tune rather than Sun's. Given how the majority of the Free Software / OSS community has shun Java, why are these guys jumping on what is essentially the same bandwagon, albeit one that's shiny new and pink, rather than a more mature one?
ObJavaFreeSoftwareDisclosure: I *am* a free software Java developer, so I guess I am biased here.. but honestly, what gives?
Anyone taking bets on Ximian's next product? An IE clone based on Gecko? A shoddy OS based on Linux? Sendmail with GUI just like Exchange's?
I'd agree with that. Just don't go bitching about bugs in Moz not getting fixed again.;)
"It's certainly a big question whether a BSD (and similar) OSS licenced software would make the same boom as GPLed Linux."
I'm honestly suprised that it hasn't. The BSD license, sans the "obnoxious BSD advertising clause", is very corporate-friendly, so I would have though the BSDs would have been more favoured by enterprises and the like.
I guess Linux's less-stringently-controlled environment means that more people are going to work on it just because it's easier to get your code into the tree, and this general popularity captured the press's attention - hence the boom.
"However if there was nothing such as OSS (GPLed) Linux many of them probably wouldn't exist in their current state"
Well, OSS certainly wouldn't have the amount of attention that it garners today without the dymanic duo - Linux and Apache. But if Linux wasn't around, I'm sure somthing else would have filled the void. Maybe people would have hacked on the HURD instead, or perhaps./ would have been a rabidly pro-FreeBSD site.
Of the tools you listed, gcc was developed by RMS and latter on the Cygwin people, Cygwin itself is a port of the GNU userland to Win32, and vim is an enhanced version of one of the original UNIX editors, all written independently of Linux. You can't credit Linux with everything. 8)
The Window's mindset I guess is mainly because people aren't used to having and giving access to source code. People get used to companies screwing them for $$$ and no source, so people on that platform set out to do the same thing when they write software for it. Pretty sad, really.
WRT platform bugs getting fixed sooner than Linux-specific bugs (I'm assuming you're talking about XP - cross platform - bugs here) keep in mind that fixing XP bugs give a lot more bang for buck. Fix one single bug in XP code and you've potentially fixed a bug on the 20+ different platforms tha Moz builds on. Fix one Linux bug, and you've fixed a bug on only one platform, albeit the third or forth most important one. So I think it's fair enough that XP bugs get a lot more attention.
Well, yeah. There's a distinct difference between contributing bug reports (i.e. doing something useful) vs bitching about bugs not getting fixed (i.e. worsening the signal:noise ratio). So, given you're actually helping those working on Moz, it's not suprising that you haven't been given the "fix it yourself" treatment very much.
It just occasionally annoys me enough to read *yet another* post complaining about some bug by someone that has no intent to spend time fixing it, yet simultaneously expects others to go out of their way to fix it for them, and at those times I feel the need to wield a clue-by-four. I guess that makes this meta-bitching, but hey, everyone needs an outlet. 8)
Given that Linux as a much lower installed base than Windows, it's hardly suprising, isn't it?
You're making the mistake of equating open source and Linux. This may be the case for a few projects (the Gnome, KDE, etc) the vasy majority of open source projects aren't Linux-centric.
ObMozBugComplaintBitchSlap: Anyway, instead of bitching about the time it takes to fix Linux bugs, why don't you fix them youself? It works for me, and I feel better about myself when I wake up in the morning because of it.
mike
-- written using Moz 0.9.9+ runnning on Debian/unstable
I don't know if it was the cause, or the effect, but the N1's controlled yaw, pitch and roll by reducing or bosting thrust to particular engines. There were no additonal engines other than the main ones at the base of each stage.
The engines were grouped in pairs of three, with one burning straight down, one off by a few degrees in one direction and the third off by the same amount in another direction. Because the diameter of the base was so large, even small amounts of differential force could effect a large change.
Perhaps getting this right (it seems overly complex to me) was one of the causes of the N1's failure, but hey, IANARS[0].
It looks like this may be the *one* time 'Net access in Australia is any better than over the the US and Canada.
Our telco monopoly, Telstra, uses PPPoE for it's ADSL lines. For what reason? I can only ascribe it to their usual complete and utter lack of clue, and general incompetence.
Luckily, some or smaller, regional ISPs (Internode for example[0]), actually do IP directly over ADSL, so you just plug your ethernet card into your ADSL bridge, and that interface is magically part of their network - no PPPoE.
W00t! It's go to see we don't completely suck.
Mike.
[0] - Plug, plug. Discaimer, I use their service, and I used to work for them.
Slashdot Mirror
"I dare you to come up with an example where keyboard is needed"
Typing in a URL? It's something I tend to do a lot. As well as fill in forms a lot. Just my typical useage pattern, I guess. But there's also interacting beyond your web browser, when you are still using it. For example, as a Java programmer, I'm alwyas using Javadoc (if you're not familiar with it, Javadoc is massively useful, HTML-based, API documentation). Here, keyboard navigation is essential when switching between the emacs and the browser to refer to the docs, then switching back to hammer some more code out. Decent keyboard nav makes this process much, much faster.
/mike.
The difference being, of course, that a MDI is always there, always taking up screen real-estate, which sucks.
Moz's tabs are prefect because when I do use them, it's for collating related pages together which I can easily flip through (./ articles, Google search results, Javadoc, etc). But when I'm not using them, the tabs are not there, not wasing screen space. Wonderful!
/mike
Yep, I wasn't dissing Opera's kbd navigation.. I was just saying that I prefer avoiding using the mouse whenever possible.. there is bugger all I need the mouse for in Moz as well, BTW.
/mike
Well, if that's the case, stick to Opera, then.
I would like to point out a semantic difference, however. Opera had an *MDI* before Mozilla had tabs, but Opera didn't have tabs until after Moz first implemented them. Big difference.
Anyway, I must be diametrically opposed to you - I hate using a mouse and avoid it whenever I can. I find I operate a computer much faster that way.
/mike
You want Optimoz. It adds mouse gestures to Mozilla.
/mike
Fair enough. I can't argue the speed and the reliability points, mainly because I've never used OmniWeb. However, I will say:
ObMozEvangPlug: Mozilla (and Chimera at some stage, I assume) does let you do some image blocking, not by regex, but it is good enough for me.
8)
/mike
"OmniWeb is my dad."
Really? Surely Chimera should be your dad. Or at least your mum.
"But you fail to state anything worthwhile."
;)
True. But your first post is content-free as well, to paraphrase: "Sendmail sucks, the others rock." Hardly a good argument..
But honestly, how is the config file non-productive? The M4 isn't as nice as say, Apache's config, but it's pretty damm easy, err, productive. I wouldn't call my 15-line sendmail config file overly complex or hard to read or maintain, in any case.
/mike
PS: okay, I promise to never mention you mum again..
"I apologize. There was no need for me to be that snippy."
Cheers, no problem.
"- Display of HTML mail"
Hmm, although it won't be in 1.0, Moz now does a similar thing. You can specify displaying the full HTML, simple HTML or as plain text. I agree that this is a very useful feature, and is why I'll still be using nightly builds when 1.0 FCS comes out.
"- Seamless integration of GPG"
Good point. That is the one thing Moz suxx0rs at. It has S/MIME support built in, which is good for work, but the Enigmail plugin which provides GPG support needs to get written to use the crypto plugin hooks. This isn't a dire issue for me (though I realize it should be).
"- Seamless use of an IMAP server"
Ahh, Moz already does this, and does it well. Again, another essential feature.
"Well, that's one way to look at it. But would you say that WordPerfect for Windows is a copy of Word for Windows?"
Given that (IIRC) WP came out long before Word did, I'd say Word is a copy of WP. 8)
"But it is not fair to dismiss him as a talentless hack who only copies Microsoft ideas, and it is premature to dismiss Mono as a bad idea."
I don't want to al all. He started GNOME and Ximian, which has produced a good desktop environment and many useful applications, and done a lot of OSS in general.
As I said in my first post, I'm curious as to why he has this obsession with MS products and technologies. I think that while cloning an existing app or technologies has advantages, it also has disadvantages, and I think teh latter outweight the former.
/mike
"It would not surpise me if in the next year we'll start to see linux interfaces with window-in-window MDI, multi-row tabs, and talking paperclips. "
Wait - wait - we've already got at least one of them:
vigor
But hell, I'm sure someone could ionnovate them into the collective OSS codebase..
/mike
"Give MS their props: they don't randomly sue people, like some other companies *cough* Apple *cough*."
Yeah, I agree, but note that you are replying to text I quoted, not text that I wrote...
"But why would you care that it looks like a non-free program?"
I don't care that it looks like a non-free program. I *do* care that it looks like another program which I don't like. I put the "non-free" bit in because it sounded better (from an English language POV) than writing "Outlook" again.
"If your problems with Evolution are minor"
My problems with Evolution are three fold: I dislike the UI, and it gives me nothing more than Mozilla gives me (I don't need calendaring or a contacts db, vfolders or an executive summary), and several things I don't want (a bad UI, no bi-directional integration with my web browser). I have no to switch to it.
"and no one (including Miguel) really cares whether you like to use it or not."
Ahh, that's where I was confused - I though *I* was the center of the world. Thanks for setting things straight. And to think, I was just participating in a discussion.
Look, you seem to need to read this post.
"This is mildly funny but uncalled-for. GNOME, Evolution, and Gnumeric are all truly great programs, and they all were needed IMHO."
Gnumeric is needed, because there isn't another decent GUI spreadsheet out there. Evolution is nice, but there are other email, calendar and contact apps out there. I wouldn't say it is truly great, however. Several of my co-workers use Evolution, and from what I've heard, it still needs work.
"I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude about Mono, but Miguel's track record so far is pretty damn impressive."
[shrug]
Miguel/Ximian has sucessfully created copies of two existing applications. He hasn't innovated - he's copied. Sure, GNOME is doing pretty well (and it is my preferred desktop environment), but Miguel isn't responsible for 100% of it, and from my perspective he hasn't had much to do with recent development. His track record is good, much better than mine, but not impressive.
/mike.
"Sendmail? People still use that trash?
Insecure bloatware with obscure, totally non-productive configuration syntax."
Well, well, well... *someone* never figured out how to configure sendmail properly, did they? Don't be bitter about it, we all have our failings...
BTW, the colour red suxx0rs, your {car|bicycle|scooter} is unsafe trash, and yo' momma uses obscure, totally non-productive configuration syntax. I got over it, you should too.
;)
"Although...putting sendmail on a gui? Now that's scary =)"
/var/spool/mqueue.
;)
Heh, I dunno, I can see sendmail being a perfectly usable form of IPC - or maybe even RPC - your sendmail-based Sendmail Administration GUI, running on your workstation, uses sendmail to message the RPC-listener instance of sendmail running on your server, which then communicates to the MTA-instance of sendmail via
What a system! Sure the hell beats the pants off using SOAP for RPC.
"if you had the choice of selling this app [...] which do you think companies are gonna go with?"
I was selling it to other companies, I'd definitely want a GUI on it - it's impossible to sell anything to PHBs without a GUI.
If I was choosing a product for my own use or for my own (hypothetical) company, then I'd get one which had a decent text-based config file and a purely optional GUI for administration. And I sure as hell wouldn't pay any more for the interface.
Personally, I'm of the 3llt, snobbish opinion that if you can't work out the arcane config file, then you shouldn't be trying to configure the thing. The config files are barriers of entry to keep all the clueless weenies out. Don't know how to configure sendmail or bind? Then keep the hell away from my mail or name server!
But this is getting a little Offtopic(-1)...
/mike
"Part of the reason you'd emulate what the majority of people are using is to make it easier for them to transition to your software."
Yeah, but if your product is an exact carbon copy of someone else's, then there is one less incentive to switch. The only other real advantage Free Software has is the free b33r aspect - but most home users and many business users I know didn't pay of Outlook, and so won't care that it is free.
So, someone using Outlook decides to evaluate Evolution, and I could imagine the tally would go something like: it looks the same (+0), costs the same (+0), is new, and hence scary (-1), must install new OS (-10). The end result is MS: 1 Ximian: 0.
I agree that the story for companies is different, but there is often a lot of interia against switching a core app such as an email/calendaring client. Whilst the training required would be reduced because of the similar UI, training is going to be required anyway (as a switch from Windows to a UN*X will generally also be involved) - so you don't gain much from the CC'ed interface. You then lose points because there is visibly little to differenciate your product from the existing one, which never helps to overcome the initial corporate inertia.
The other factor is that Ximian will be forever playing catch-up with MS, they will never be in the lead unless they actually go off and do their own slighly-less-MS-like thing. This never helps.
Mike.
"Am I the only person that wonders why MS hasn't sued the crap out of Ximian yet?"
Sort of. I don't know why MS hasn't sued them, but I'm more curious as to why Miguel/Ximian insists on copying *everything* MS does. I have a strong dislike of Outlook's UI, and so there's no chance I'm going to use Evolution - it looks exactly the same as it's non-free competitor. Yiick!
Gnumeric of course was the first such example. Use a windows-like GTK theme and you'll have trouble telling the difference between it and Excel. Doesn't Gnumeric also use a VB-like scripting language? I know the function library is very similar.
Then there's the whole Mono/.NET thing. C#, the intermediate format, the runtime - it's all a Java clone, but dancing to MS's tune rather than Sun's. Given how the majority of the Free Software / OSS community has shun Java, why are these guys jumping on what is essentially the same bandwagon, albeit one that's shiny new and pink, rather than a more mature one?
ObJavaFreeSoftwareDisclosure: I *am* a free software Java developer, so I guess I am biased here.. but honestly, what gives?
Anyone taking bets on Ximian's next product? An IE clone based on Gecko? A shoddy OS based on Linux? Sendmail with GUI just like Exchange's?
Mike.
"I think there's no dispute between us."
;)
I'd agree with that. Just don't go bitching about bugs in Moz not getting fixed again.
"It's certainly a big question whether a BSD (and similar) OSS licenced software would make the same boom as GPLed Linux."
I'm honestly suprised that it hasn't. The BSD license, sans the "obnoxious BSD advertising clause", is very corporate-friendly, so I would have though the BSDs would have been more favoured by enterprises and the like.
I guess Linux's less-stringently-controlled environment means that more people are going to work on it just because it's easier to get your code into the tree, and this general popularity captured the press's attention - hence the boom.
[shrug]
mike
"However if there was nothing such as OSS (GPLed) Linux many of them probably wouldn't exist in their current state"
./ would have been a rabidly pro-FreeBSD site.
Well, OSS certainly wouldn't have the amount of attention that it garners today without the dymanic duo - Linux and Apache. But if Linux wasn't around, I'm sure somthing else would have filled the void. Maybe people would have hacked on the HURD instead, or perhaps
Of the tools you listed, gcc was developed by RMS and latter on the Cygwin people, Cygwin itself is a port of the GNU userland to Win32, and vim is an enhanced version of one of the original UNIX editors, all written independently of Linux. You can't credit Linux with everything. 8)
The Window's mindset I guess is mainly because people aren't used to having and giving access to source code. People get used to companies screwing them for $$$ and no source, so people on that platform set out to do the same thing when they write software for it. Pretty sad, really.
mike
"Maybe I'm just bitching...."
Aren't we all.. 8)
WRT platform bugs getting fixed sooner than Linux-specific bugs (I'm assuming you're talking about XP - cross platform - bugs here) keep in mind that fixing XP bugs give a lot more bang for buck. Fix one single bug in XP code and you've potentially fixed a bug on the 20+ different platforms tha Moz builds on. Fix one Linux bug, and you've fixed a bug on only one platform, albeit the third or forth most important one. So I think it's fair enough that XP bugs get a lot more attention.
IMHO, YMMV, etc.
Mike.
Well, yeah. There's a distinct difference between contributing bug reports (i.e. doing something useful) vs bitching about bugs not getting fixed (i.e. worsening the signal:noise ratio). So, given you're actually helping those working on Moz, it's not suprising that you haven't been given the "fix it yourself" treatment very much.
It just occasionally annoys me enough to read *yet another* post complaining about some bug by someone that has no intent to spend time fixing it, yet simultaneously expects others to go out of their way to fix it for them, and at those times I feel the need to wield a clue-by-four. I guess that makes this meta-bitching, but hey, everyone needs an outlet. 8)
Keep on reporting those bugs!
Mike.
Given that Linux as a much lower installed base than Windows, it's hardly suprising, isn't it?
You're making the mistake of equating open source and Linux. This may be the case for a few projects (the Gnome, KDE, etc) the vasy majority of open source projects aren't Linux-centric.
ObMozBugComplaintBitchSlap: Anyway, instead of bitching about the time it takes to fix Linux bugs, why don't you fix them youself? It works for me, and I feel better about myself when I wake up in the morning because of it.
mike
-- written using Moz 0.9.9+ runnning on Debian/unstable
I don't know if it was the cause, or the effect, but the N1's controlled yaw, pitch and roll by reducing or bosting thrust to particular engines. There were no additonal engines other than the main ones at the base of each stage.
The engines were grouped in pairs of three, with one burning straight down, one off by a few degrees in one direction and the third off by the same amount in another direction. Because the diameter of the base was so large, even small amounts of differential force could effect a large change.
Perhaps getting this right (it seems overly complex to me) was one of the causes of the N1's failure, but hey, IANARS[0].
Mike.
[0] - I Am Not A Rocket Scientist.
Yeah, it says it is from "Microsoft Corporation". Or was that "Microsoft Corperation"?
In the words of the immortal Baterz: "There's nothing wrong with being paranoid."
"It's wrong to claim that linux is more secure than windows."
Eh? When did I mention Linux?
"posting as an AC because of a IP ban"
No, you're posting AC because you're trolling.
Doesn't it scare you that something as fundamental as screen rendering algorithms can be changed using a *checkbox on a page from a remote website*?
My god, no wonder new exploits are constantly being found in Windows and IE.
Mike.
(-1, Offtopic)
Well, well, well.
It looks like this may be the *one* time 'Net access in Australia is any better than over the the US and Canada.
Our telco monopoly, Telstra, uses PPPoE for it's ADSL lines. For what reason? I can only ascribe it to their usual complete and utter lack of clue, and general incompetence.
Luckily, some or smaller, regional ISPs (Internode for example[0]), actually do IP directly over ADSL, so you just plug your ethernet card into your ADSL bridge, and that interface is magically part of their network - no PPPoE.
W00t! It's go to see we don't completely suck.
Mike.
[0] - Plug, plug. Discaimer, I use their service, and I used to work for them.