Owning a gun requires *responsibility*. If the kid could get to the gun in the first place, load it, and use it, it's the parent's fault.
Don't believe me? There are something like 100 million gun owners in this country. The numbers of kids killed in firearm accidents every year is in the low thousands. A very small percentage, and mostly due to irresponsibility.
If you have kids that are too young to be responsible with guns, deny them access to the guns. There are many ways to do this. Then, when they are old enough, take them to classes, or teach them gun safety and the responsiblities therein yourself.
I grew up in, and live in, a state where gun ownership is practically a fact of life for most people. If you're not willing to take responsibility for it, then don't own one. If you do own, and are careless and one of your kids dies as a result, *don't blame the guns* blame yourself, because you're the idiot who let it happen!
Sheeese!!!!!!!!!!!
SB
Guns don't kill people, irresponsible idiots/violent human beings do. Are you going to ban kitchen knives because your kid might stab himself with it? Moron.
OMG... are you in the states? I would *pay* to play a Robotron arcade machine again. It'd be like...a nostalgia vacation:)
I literally wore blisters on my palms from the double joystick action playing that game. Not boasting, but not too long before I went to college I played on one quarter from open to close ( 9 AM to 10 PM) on one. I got that good. After that I quit playing...might have had something to do with the manager of the arcade not wanting to let me in there anymore;-)
or a small block of 1" square unfinished cedar wood will work as well. I keep small blocks of it everywhere in my place and I've NEVER had bug problems (except for silverfish, the little slinkers seem to be immune).
Me too...thousand thoughts a minute (wish I had a thought recorder, fingers can't keep up;-)
It's the thousands of books, particularly SF,that I've read...and I seem to have some strange natural talent for proofreading. Bog help me. I'm in the wrong line of work.
Not sure an addendum would be a good idea. Politicos are....weird, that way. They might consider it "retraction". At least most of the ones I've encountered. Not sure what to tell you there. I am not sure how one would present that particular piece of info either. No matter how you put it, you're going to piss someone off. Ah, well, such is gov.;-)
Still, good letter, and better than the inflammatory ones I usually send them. Wish I had your writing skills. Actually, the spelling was good, and there were few grammar errors. If you'd like a proofreader, feel free to send copies to me, I seem to be good at it....
Now just wishing Tor would decide whether they want to publish my/our (friend) first SF collab. Sigh
If IBM slaughters SCO in court, then buys the smoldering remains of their IP, and GPLs it, I will travel to their corporate headquarters at my own expense, and personally polish the boots of the manager?senior mngr. who made the decision.
Wanna know the irony of that? If someone had told me 20 years ago that I would have *ever* have said anything like that, I would have ripped his nuts off in public, and fried them (with radishes) (and probably could have sold tickets to the barbecue).
I've encountered conflicts between windows/dos partition tables and other flavors of *nix in addition to BSD. I suspect it's *DOS* that doesn't play nice with partition tables (particularly extended partitions - isn't there a warning in linux fdisk about this? ).
Minor nitpick (well, besides some spelling and grammar errors;-)
You probably should have mentioned the (failed) attempt by the media cartels to get legislation included in the Patriot Act. AFAIK, this attempt was severely critized by many at the time.
I've noticed that too, on my home account. My ISP even has a spam filter, which seemed to be working for a while this last winter, but now isn't even keeping up. December I was getting 10-20 a day; now it's over 40 and climbing every day.
Personally I like the Vorkosigan Com Console skin
(here) (from Bujolds' books) myself.;-) It's clean and pretty.
I haven't tested it with 1.3 yet, but it works well with the other vers.
Yay, Miles Vorkosigan!;-)
It's late and I'm wiped out, but I'm going to take a stab at answering this;-)
it will be a long time before a significant percentage of the population goes through a farmers market to get their food. Farmers markets are growing in my location as well, and many producers are venturing up to the Washington DC area from here with their produce. But how many hundreds of thousands of people live in the metro DC area? How many hundreds of people visit the farmers markets in the area on a regular basis? The ratio of farmers market patrons to the general public is small, and is likely to remain so. By no means does this mean we should give up on the idea, it just means that commodity based agriculture must continue as well.
Very true, all of it. But the fact is that they *are* growing, and have been for nearly a decade now, while before that they were shrinking. Things are starting to turn around, as concerns over genetic foods and food quality start to hit the mass consumer market. I don't know if you follow the reading as much as I do, but I've seen a *huge* increase over the number of popular media articles about these problems over the last 5 years. Yes, standard agbiz will have to continue - but I can foresee a time when modern technology and modern applications of old methods will start to edge it out; if for no other reason than control over one's own food supply. We can hope;-)
Unfortunately a large increase in fuel prices is likely to hurt the direct marketer harder than the convientional farmer.
That's exactly what I was saying. A massive increase in fuel prices will drive the end product price up, and I think people would start to turn to local markets once the quantities available equalize (it's not price, most local farmers markets are competitive on price, it's quantity that they're lacking in.
This charge is passed back to me as well, because the processor deducts a portion of this from the price he pays me for the raw product.
Which is one of the major kinks in the system. The middleman gets too much.
In large scale organic production fuel use is greater due to the fact that it is more labor intensive. Weeds must be dealt with via cultivation, and not chemical means. It is cheaper to spray a herbicide than it is to cultivate multiple times to "knock down" weeds until the crop is tall enough to shade out the weeds. (I know, I use both methods)
I wonder. I drive by fields whose cultivators I know use organic methods (rotation, multiple discing (sp?), etc) and I see far fewer weeds in their fields. I am not sure organic works better on a large scale; I haven't seen convincing evidence either way. I do know it works *much* better on the small scale. I'd be interested in seeing numbers on that, and from farmers without cross contamination in chemicals and in breeds/hybrids used. I also suspect that on the *very* large scale, organic may benefit the economy directly by hiring more people and providing greater return to the system in the form of income spent. IANAEconomist, tho. Thank God.;=)
However, as I said in my previous post, I fear that large numbers of people will not follow this example. Affluence breeds a need for convience, and we do live in a society that has a large amount of "extra" money. People by boneless, skinless chicken breast, not a whole chicken. (hell, people just go out to eat more often than not) If people were truely finiancially "stapped" many things would change to be sure. Hopefully this change can come about without large scale suffering first.
I think things are going to continue to change. Food prices even at markets like Walmarts are 50% and more higher than they were 5 years ago (meat is a prime example, particularly beef).
I agree completely about afluence. It's sad. However, when you look at the price differences between boneless and whole chicken, it's huge - about 200%+ in my local Walmart. If food prices climbed considerably, even the affluent might start noticing. Particularly if they have kids;-) Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part...but we can hope. Especially about the large scale suffering part!
As to the open source part, with recent distribs such as Mandrake 9.0 there's no recompile necessary, and the installation is both easier and less headache producing (one reboot vs. many, no drivers to look up,etc) than windows is - I know, I've been a PT/FT tech for almost 6 years. The app side is what's killing OSS, but that's changing too...
(and, in the future, do not saw a tree down to land on my leg, breaking it, and providing me all this time to wax eloquent on philisophical priciples. I need to produce something other than keystrokes!:)
LOL. Been there, done that....
As to offtopic...there's no such thing as an offtopic post.;-) Everything is connected.
My SO is bugging hell out of me to come to bed...but I'd like to continue this conversation, I'm learning quite a bit (don't know as much as I'd like to about farm economy); if this gets archived, both you and zogger are free to email me. Any other company included, of course.
You didn't note my comment on catalysts. We have them for fuel cells; they can be used to seperate H from natural sources (eg, methane, which is produced all over and burned off; plus there are other sources. Solar would be a good option for those areas with little methane access, such as the desert southwest. (of course in the desert SW the problem is finding water to split with solar;-) but remember - solar efficiency is climbing rapidly. And no, we would not have to cover the *entire* western US - or even a appreciable fraction of the US - with solar cells to split H/O, even to fuel 100M cars. Remember also that solar cell production is a relatively "clean" energy source - nearly all of the pollution involved is in initial production.
There is no *one* technology to give us those H farms; but many. It can and is being done. Look at the fortunes we spend on oil, and the oil companies already sinking money into hydrogen fuel research, and then tell me that *they* don't see the writing on the wall...and if those fortunes were applied more to the problem of this particular route to energy independence, don't you think we could convert fairly easily?
Do your own research, if you don't believe me. You might be surprised - it's being done already. Do you honestly think that the potential market in fuel cells seen by all the companies doing the work on them hasn't been researched fully as to the potential availability of H? These people aren't fools, you know. There's a good reason that the main problem discussed is infrastructure rebuilding, and not H availability. (well, except by some people like Pournelle, and he's admitted recently that he simply doesn't know enough yet about the technology; as I recall it was last summer...)
I don't have time to educate people about this on/. - especially now when I'm designing/planning my own self-sufficient homestead. You're going to have to do your own research. Sorry;-) You might try searching for "hydrogen fuel cells production methods" on google; it's a start.
But consumers were mostly led down that road...like you said, by the convenience (and TV advertising, bleh). Yeah, we've got to convince them otherwise; but organic farming is getting bigger each year, so there must be some consumers going over. I expect a lot of change probably results from concerns over genetically altered foods.
Farmer's markets and local growers still do a pretty good business where I am. We still shop some at Walmart, but buy as much as we can locally; and when we have company over, they're *amazed* at the taste of the food;-) Gotta convert 'em a few at a time. One doesn't have to leave urban areas to grow organic (although it's easier that way). As rising fuel costs drive up food costs hopefully more people will start gardening again)
There are organic methods, such as the French Intensive method and raised-bed gardening, that yield *more* than standard farming. On small plots, yes; but self-sufficiency means you don't have to worry about runs on grocery stores or droughts thousands of miles away cutting into your daily chow. Another thing to teach more consumers. Plus there's the cost savings...but the main thing is, as zogger said, the world should not rely on us to feed it; if we do crash (and it's possible) they'd be SOL. Most of the rest of the world realizes this, and doesn't want to rely on US produced chemicals either. So if they're doing it, why shouldn't we?
"Now, because many of the items that agriculture produces are perishable, and cannot be stockpiled, these suppliers need to ensure that they have an adequate supply of raw material comming in at all times with as little excess as possible."
If oil suddenly became prohibitively expensive or much harder to get, you can bet they'd go back to buying local. They'd almost have to; else raise their prices horribly, and consumers would start going local again. Hmmm...maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing...except for such short local stocks in food (30 days ~ most of US cities - there's one place where the Mormons know what they're doing stocking 1 year! We here stock 6 months +)
The homesteading/organic farming movements are growing steadily again, and have been for almost two decades. It's like the open source movement - a little ground gained at a time. I agree with you though - we've a long way to go yet.
Wish my head wasn't so fuzzy this morning...need coffee, critters are complaining, time to go. I'll try to follow this more, it's always fascinating to talk about this....
Wow! What a lot to wake up to *grin*. Sorry I didn't seem so clear in my posts, was late and was exhausted (*city illness* this weekend)
OS_2, you're right about expensive. But the key here is *long term expenses*. This is one thing that is a proven concept - as another poster mentioned it's huge in China and India - and really pays off in the long run. Something else that should be mentioned is that the byproducts from cooking the sludge to produce methane also produces pretty good fertilizer, and in quantity (maybe it was mentioned and I missed it).
Farmers used to be the most independent people on the planet - now US farmers are mostly dependant on banks.
Nice rant, Zogger - I've been saying similar things for years. I agree with nearly all of it. Especially about soil depletion - should have made that clearer in my post that I *hate* farm chemicals (I have a low grade allergy to neuropoisons, probably from living in a city that used way too many lawn and bug sprays). Global monopoly on food == bad idea, yes. Not to mention not really practical (nor possible, other countries' farmers aren't going to let us, bless their hearts)
I'd love to get into this deeper but no time right now - perhaps later - but I do have to mention that my S.O. and I are moving to SD in a few months to find land and begin our own little homestead - is why we're so busy!;-) We can't wait. The kids are gone and we're free to move beyond the sidewalks (taking city teenagers out there proved to be, uh, chaos). I've been self-employed for years and she's in the medical field so hopefully we'll have the resources. The cities are turning into nightmares....our plans include strawbale buildings, passive solar/solar electric, and very simple living (computer being one of the few electrical appliances), greenhouse and gardens. We'll be in the Black Hills somewhere so the climate will be wonderful (N. Minnesota now, Brrrrr!)
Wish us luck; we'll need it.;-) Our friends and folks think we're nuts. Hah! Not nuts, just stubborn! The junk sale starts this week;-)
In regards to modern farming, you're right. Most farmers are so far in debt they don't dare try anything new - and the banks that own their farms lock, stock and barrel would frown on it anyway. It's really sad. In my state I've watched many farmers, some good friends, going out of business steadily because they weren't willing to put themselves in debt down to the Xth generation. Thruout time, farmers have always taken risks - now the risks are more to your bank balance then to your actual livelihood (tho that follows when they repossess!)
When farm chemicals began to become popular, most farmers thought they were BS too - and continued using the old ways as long as they could, until big agbiz and modern machinery (and price fixing) shoved them out of the markets.
Modern agbiz is 1) pay pay pay and 2) pay. It's time that farmers started getting back to methods that make them more independent of the banks and big ag companies, and this (the methane production) is one way of helping do it. I'm all for it. We have to consider our costs to the environment just as much as our costs to the banks/corps/government, or our kids won't be farming....
Yeah, with modern agbiz, we can feed the world. But...how good is the feed (single strain crops being incredibly vulnerable to mutated pests and diseases, not to mention being lower in nutrition because they're bred to grow, not for nutritional value; plus they don't have the hardiness that naturally evolved crop strains do - and that's well documented, look it up) and *who* is really making the profit? Certainly not the farmers themselves.
No, he's a *homesteader* and a geek. The hippie movement was mostly about living on nothing, not about self-sufficiency. There's a HUGE difference.
Countryside magazines' (http://www.countrysidemag.com/) philosophy says it really well:
"It's not a single idea, but many ideas and attitudes, including a reverence for nature and a preference for country life; a desire for maximum personal self-reliance and creative leisure; a concern for family nurture and community cohesion; a certain hostility toward luxury; a belief that the primary reward of work should be well-being rather than money; a certain nostalgia for the supposed simplicities of the past and an anxiety about the technological and bureaucratic complexities of the present and the future; and a taste for the plain and functional.
COUNTRYSIDE reflects and supports the simple life, and calls its practitioners "homesteaders.""
and note that there are many homesteaders who not only surf the internet, they use it to make a living! WISE use of technology.
and the books therein. For some starter philosophical background, I'd also recommend reading Barbara Kingsolvers' "A Small Wonder" and there's lots more books...it's a very fast growing movement. My gf and I are heading to W. South Dakota to buy land this year and start ourselves...we've been wanting to get beyond the sidewalks for nearly a decade.
If you're trolling....well, too bad....you're missing out.;-)
1) Buy a composting toilet (SunMar is the best IMO); check your local regulations first; but composting toilets produce wonderful fertilizer if they're used properly; and fertilizer == $$
2) There are ways to modify septic tanks to produce methane much the same way that this farmer does. Not for the faint of heart;-) but they do work (kfg, wasn't there an article in MEN or BackwoodsHome about this recently? Mine are all packed for moving, don't want to dig them out)
The whole thing about energy nowadays...is who can get rich over it >> politics/lobbying >> regulations up the wazoo. There are many of us fighting the good fight....and yes;-) some of us read slashdot.
I find the whole stem cell argument ridiculous. We have already learned how to grow them from one's own body, as witnessed by the recent (Thursday news?) case of a person's heart being repaired with stem cells harvested from his own blood.
As to morals vs. ethics, I agree with you. On the bible BS too. I note that the Christian right are the ones opposing cloning research - when that very research is what they will probably be taking advantage of if/when we get the chance to do R&D enough to learn how to clone organs...and therefore save their worthless bigoted lives.
I salute you, sir.
I'm damn close to being an anarchist, these days....it can't be much different than what's already happening...
Slashdot Mirror
Someone with mod points please mod parent Informative.
SB
Idiot.
Owning a gun requires *responsibility*. If the kid could get to the gun in the first place, load it, and use it, it's the parent's fault.
Don't believe me? There are something like 100 million gun owners in this country. The numbers of kids killed in firearm accidents every year is in the low thousands. A very small percentage, and mostly due to irresponsibility.
If you have kids that are too young to be responsible with guns, deny them access to the guns. There are many ways to do this. Then, when they are old enough, take them to classes, or teach them gun safety and the responsiblities therein yourself.
I grew up in, and live in, a state where gun ownership is practically a fact of life for most people. If you're not willing to take responsibility for it, then don't own one. If you do own, and are careless and one of your kids dies as a result, *don't blame the guns* blame yourself, because you're the idiot who let it happen!
Sheeese!!!!!!!!!!!
SB
Guns don't kill people, irresponsible idiots/violent human beings do. Are you going to ban kitchen knives because your kid might stab himself with it? Moron.
OMG... are you in the states? I would *pay* to play a Robotron arcade machine again. It'd be like...a nostalgia vacation
I literally wore blisters on my palms from the double joystick action playing that game. Not boasting, but not too long before I went to college I played on one quarter from open to close ( 9 AM to 10 PM) on one. I got that good. After that I quit playing...might have had something to do with the manager of the arcade not wanting to let me in there anymore
The Mame vers. etc just don't have the same feel.
SB
or a small block of 1" square unfinished cedar wood will work as well. I keep small blocks of it everywhere in my place and I've NEVER had bug problems (except for silverfish, the little slinkers seem to be immune).
SB
Extremely well said.
Then put the money we save into a SERIOUS long term X-program (that's not PORK) to design a *truly* reusable shuttle....
SB
*You* go, ttb.
These are some of the most insightful comments I've read in this whole post thread.
MO? SCO is *toast* and it's their own fault.
SB
"I'm a thinker, not a proofreader. hehehe"
;-)
,that I've read...and I seem to have some strange natural talent for proofreading. Bog help me. I'm in the wrong line of work.
;-)
Me too...thousand thoughts a minute (wish I had a thought recorder, fingers can't keep up
It's the thousands of books, particularly SF
Not sure an addendum would be a good idea. Politicos are....weird, that way. They might consider it "retraction". At least most of the ones I've encountered. Not sure what to tell you there. I am not sure how one would present that particular piece of info either. No matter how you put it, you're going to piss someone off. Ah, well, such is gov.
Still, good letter, and better than the inflammatory ones I usually send them. Wish I had your writing skills. Actually, the spelling was good, and there were few grammar errors. If you'd like a proofreader, feel free to send copies to me, I seem to be good at it....
Now just wishing Tor would decide whether they want to publish my/our (friend) first SF collab. Sigh
SB
If IBM slaughters SCO in court, then buys the smoldering remains of their IP, and GPLs it, I will travel to their corporate headquarters at my own expense, and personally polish the boots of the manager?senior mngr. who made the decision.
Wanna know the irony of that? If someone had told me 20 years ago that I would have *ever* have said anything like that, I would have ripped his nuts off in public, and fried them (with radishes) (and probably could have sold tickets to the barbecue).
IBM - kick'em!
SB
I've encountered conflicts between windows/dos partition tables and other flavors of *nix in addition to BSD. I suspect it's *DOS* that doesn't play nice with partition tables (particularly extended partitions - isn't there a warning in linux fdisk about this? ).
SB
Well written!
Minor nitpick (well, besides some spelling and grammar errors
You probably should have mentioned the (failed) attempt by the media cartels to get legislation included in the Patriot Act. AFAIK, this attempt was severely critized by many at the time.
SB
"(based on testing just those words)"
;-)
Suuuurrreeee it was.
SB
I've noticed that too, on my home account. My ISP even has a spam filter, which seemed to be working for a while this last winter, but now isn't even keeping up. December I was getting 10-20 a day; now it's over 40 and climbing every day.
Sigh.
SB
Speaking as someone who grew up in Hormel's "flagship" plant town....
You DEFINITELY don't want to know
(I personally suspect the secret ingredient is missing ex-employees, but am unable to prove it
SB
Personally I like the Vorkosigan Com Console skin (here) (from Bujolds' books) myself. ;-) It's clean and pretty. ;-)
I haven't tested it with 1.3 yet, but it works well with the other vers.
Yay, Miles Vorkosigan!
SB
it will be a long time before a significant percentage of the population goes through a farmers market to get their food. Farmers markets are growing in my location as well, and many producers are venturing up to the Washington DC area from here with their produce. But how many hundreds of thousands of people live in the metro DC area? How many hundreds of people visit the farmers markets in the area on a regular basis? The ratio of farmers market patrons to the general public is small, and is likely to remain so. By no means does this mean we should give up on the idea, it just means that commodity based agriculture must continue as well.
Very true, all of it. But the fact is that they *are* growing, and have been for nearly a decade now, while before that they were shrinking. Things are starting to turn around, as concerns over genetic foods and food quality start to hit the mass consumer market. I don't know if you follow the reading as much as I do, but I've seen a *huge* increase over the number of popular media articles about these problems over the last 5 years. Yes, standard agbiz will have to continue - but I can foresee a time when modern technology and modern applications of old methods will start to edge it out; if for no other reason than control over one's own food supply. We can hope
Unfortunately a large increase in fuel prices is likely to hurt the direct marketer harder than the convientional farmer.
That's exactly what I was saying. A massive increase in fuel prices will drive the end product price up, and I think people would start to turn to local markets once the quantities available equalize (it's not price, most local farmers markets are competitive on price, it's quantity that they're lacking in.
This charge is passed back to me as well, because the processor deducts a portion of this from the price he pays me for the raw product.
Which is one of the major kinks in the system. The middleman gets too much.
In large scale organic production fuel use is greater due to the fact that it is more labor intensive. Weeds must be dealt with via cultivation, and not chemical means. It is cheaper to spray a herbicide than it is to cultivate multiple times to "knock down" weeds until the crop is tall enough to shade out the weeds. (I know, I use both methods)
I wonder. I drive by fields whose cultivators I know use organic methods (rotation, multiple discing (sp?), etc) and I see far fewer weeds in their fields. I am not sure organic works better on a large scale; I haven't seen convincing evidence either way. I do know it works *much* better on the small scale. I'd be interested in seeing numbers on that, and from farmers without cross contamination in chemicals and in breeds/hybrids used. I also suspect that on the *very* large scale, organic may benefit the economy directly by hiring more people and providing greater return to the system in the form of income spent. IANAEconomist, tho. Thank God.
However, as I said in my previous post, I fear that large numbers of people will not follow this example. Affluence breeds a need for convience, and we do live in a society that has a large amount of "extra" money. People by boneless, skinless chicken breast, not a whole chicken. (hell, people just go out to eat more often than not) If people were truely finiancially "stapped" many things would change to be sure. Hopefully this change can come about without large scale suffering first.
I think things are going to continue to change. Food prices even at markets like Walmarts are 50% and more higher than they were 5 years ago (meat is a prime example, particularly beef).
I agree completely about afluence. It's sad. However, when you look at the price differences between boneless and whole chicken, it's huge - about 200%+ in my local Walmart. If food prices climbed considerably, even the affluent might start noticing. Particularly if they have kids
As to the open source part, with recent distribs such as Mandrake 9.0 there's no recompile necessary, and the installation is both easier and less headache producing (one reboot vs. many, no drivers to look up,etc) than windows is - I know, I've been a PT/FT tech for almost 6 years. The app side is what's killing OSS, but that's changing too...
(and, in the future, do not saw a tree down to land on my leg, breaking it, and providing me all this time to wax eloquent on philisophical priciples. I need to produce something other than keystrokes!:)
LOL. Been there, done that....
As to offtopic...there's no such thing as an offtopic post.
My SO is bugging hell out of me to come to bed...but I'd like to continue this conversation, I'm learning quite a bit (don't know as much as I'd like to about farm economy); if this gets archived, both you and zogger are free to email me. Any other company included, of course.
Yawn *thud*
SB
You didn't note my comment on catalysts. We have them for fuel cells; they can be used to seperate H from natural sources (eg, methane, which is produced all over and burned off; plus there are other sources. Solar would be a good option for those areas with little methane access, such as the desert southwest. (of course in the desert SW the problem is finding water to split with solar ;-) but remember - solar efficiency is climbing rapidly. And no, we would not have to cover the *entire* western US - or even a appreciable fraction of the US - with solar cells to split H/O, even to fuel 100M cars. Remember also that solar cell production is a relatively "clean" energy source - nearly all of the pollution involved is in initial production.
/. - especially now when I'm designing/planning my own self-sufficient homestead. You're going to have to do your own research. Sorry ;-) You might try searching for "hydrogen fuel cells production methods" on google; it's a start.
There is no *one* technology to give us those H farms; but many. It can and is being done. Look at the fortunes we spend on oil, and the oil companies already sinking money into hydrogen fuel research, and then tell me that *they* don't see the writing on the wall...and if those fortunes were applied more to the problem of this particular route to energy independence, don't you think we could convert fairly easily?
Do your own research, if you don't believe me. You might be surprised - it's being done already. Do you honestly think that the potential market in fuel cells seen by all the companies doing the work on them hasn't been researched fully as to the potential availability of H? These people aren't fools, you know. There's a good reason that the main problem discussed is infrastructure rebuilding, and not H availability.
(well, except by some people like Pournelle, and he's admitted recently that he simply doesn't know enough yet about the technology; as I recall it was last summer...)
I don't have time to educate people about this on
And that's all I have time for tonite...
Cheers,
SB
But consumers were mostly led down that road...like you said, by the convenience (and TV advertising, bleh). Yeah, we've got to convince them otherwise; but organic farming is getting bigger each year, so there must be some consumers going over. I expect a lot of change probably results from concerns over genetically altered foods.
;-) Gotta convert 'em a few at a time. One doesn't have to leave urban areas to grow organic (although it's easier that way). As rising fuel costs drive up food costs hopefully more people will start gardening again)
Farmer's markets and local growers still do a pretty good business where I am. We still shop some at Walmart, but buy as much as we can locally; and when we have company over, they're *amazed* at the taste of the food
There are organic methods, such as the French Intensive method and raised-bed gardening, that yield *more* than standard farming. On small plots, yes; but self-sufficiency means you don't have to worry about runs on grocery stores or droughts thousands of miles away cutting into your daily chow. Another thing to teach more consumers. Plus there's the cost savings...but the main thing is, as zogger said, the world should not rely on us to feed it; if we do crash (and it's possible) they'd be SOL. Most of the rest of the world realizes this, and doesn't want to rely on US produced chemicals either. So if they're doing it, why shouldn't we?
"Now, because many of the items that agriculture produces are perishable, and cannot be stockpiled, these suppliers need to ensure that they have an adequate supply of raw material comming in at all times with as little excess as possible."
If oil suddenly became prohibitively expensive or much harder to get, you can bet they'd go back to buying local. They'd almost have to; else raise their prices horribly, and consumers would start going local again. Hmmm...maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing...except for such short local stocks in food (30 days ~ most of US cities - there's one place where the Mormons know what they're doing stocking 1 year! We here stock 6 months +)
The homesteading/organic farming movements are growing steadily again, and have been for almost two decades. It's like the open source movement - a little ground gained at a time. I agree with you though - we've a long way to go yet.
Wish my head wasn't so fuzzy this morning...need coffee, critters are complaining, time to go. I'll try to follow this more, it's always fascinating to talk about this....
SB
Wow! What a lot to wake up to *grin*. Sorry I didn't seem so clear in my posts, was late and was exhausted (*city illness* this weekend)
OS_2, you're right about expensive. But the key here is *long term expenses*. This is one thing that is a proven concept - as another poster mentioned it's huge in China and India - and really pays off in the long run. Something else that should be mentioned is that the byproducts from cooking the sludge to produce methane also produces pretty good fertilizer, and in quantity (maybe it was mentioned and I missed it).
Farmers used to be the most independent people on the planet - now US farmers are mostly dependant on banks.
Nice rant, Zogger - I've been saying similar things for years. I agree with nearly all of it. Especially about soil depletion - should have made that clearer in my post that I *hate* farm chemicals (I have a low grade allergy to neuropoisons, probably from living in a city that used way too many lawn and bug sprays). Global monopoly on food == bad idea, yes. Not to mention not really practical (nor possible, other countries' farmers aren't going to let us, bless their hearts)
I'd love to get into this deeper but no time right now - perhaps later - but I do have to mention that my S.O. and I are moving to SD in a few months to find land and begin our own little homestead - is why we're so busy!
I've been self-employed for years and she's in the medical field so hopefully we'll have the resources. The cities are turning into nightmares....our plans include strawbale buildings, passive solar/solar electric, and very simple living (computer being one of the few electrical appliances), greenhouse and gardens. We'll be in the Black Hills somewhere so the climate will be wonderful (N. Minnesota now, Brrrrr!)
Wish us luck; we'll need it.
SB
In regards to modern farming, you're right. Most farmers are so far in debt they don't dare try anything new - and the banks that own their farms lock, stock and barrel would frown on it anyway. It's really sad. In my state I've watched many farmers, some good friends, going out of business steadily because they weren't willing to put themselves in debt down to the Xth generation. Thruout time, farmers have always taken risks - now the risks are more to your bank balance then to your actual livelihood (tho that follows when they repossess!)
When farm chemicals began to become popular, most farmers thought they were BS too - and continued using the old ways as long as they could, until big agbiz and modern machinery (and price fixing) shoved them out of the markets.
Modern agbiz is 1) pay pay pay and 2) pay. It's time that farmers started getting back to methods that make them more independent of the banks and big ag companies, and this (the methane production) is one way of helping do it. I'm all for it. We have to consider our costs to the environment just as much as our costs to the banks/corps/government, or our kids won't be farming....
Yeah, with modern agbiz, we can feed the world. But...how good is the feed (single strain crops being incredibly vulnerable to mutated pests and diseases, not to mention being lower in nutrition because they're bred to grow, not for nutritional value; plus they don't have the hardiness that naturally evolved crop strains do - and that's well documented, look it up) and *who* is really making the profit? Certainly not the farmers themselves.
SB
No, he's a *homesteader* and a geek. The hippie movement was mostly about living on nothing, not about self-sufficiency. There's a HUGE difference.
r earthnews.com/
;-)
Countryside magazines' (http://www.countrysidemag.com/) philosophy says it really well:
"It's not a single idea, but many ideas and attitudes, including a reverence for nature and a preference for country life; a desire for maximum personal self-reliance and creative leisure; a concern for family nurture and community cohesion; a certain hostility toward luxury; a belief that the primary reward of work should be well-being rather than money; a certain nostalgia for the supposed simplicities of the past and an anxiety about the technological and bureaucratic complexities of the present and the future; and a taste for the plain and functional.
COUNTRYSIDE reflects and supports the simple life, and calls its practitioners "homesteaders.""
and note that there are many homesteaders who not only surf the internet, they use it to make a living! WISE use of technology.
More reading, if you're serious and not trolling:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/
http://www.mothe
and the books therein. For some starter philosophical background, I'd also recommend reading Barbara Kingsolvers' "A Small Wonder" and there's lots more books...it's a very fast growing movement. My gf and I are heading to W. South Dakota to buy land this year and start ourselves...we've been wanting to get beyond the sidewalks for nearly a decade.
If you're trolling....well, too bad....you're missing out.
SB
Great post. I'll add a couple things:
1) Buy a composting toilet (SunMar is the best IMO); check your local regulations first; but composting toilets produce wonderful fertilizer if they're used properly; and fertilizer == $$
2) There are ways to modify septic tanks to produce methane much the same way that this farmer does. Not for the faint of heart
The whole thing about energy nowadays...is who can get rich over it >> politics/lobbying >> regulations up the wazoo. There are many of us fighting the good fight....and yes
Thanks!! Friend!
SB
"In Minnesota, they cook them. "
Yaah, 'ten we sell'em to McDonalds
*Bork bork bork*
Well, it's *about* a crock of shit.
A BIG crock of shit.
800 cows....
Holy shit!
SB
I find the whole stem cell argument ridiculous. We have already learned how to grow them from one's own body, as witnessed by the recent (Thursday news?) case of a person's heart being repaired with stem cells harvested from his own blood.
As to morals vs. ethics, I agree with you. On the bible BS too. I note that the Christian right are the ones opposing cloning research - when that very research is what they will probably be taking advantage of if/when we get the chance to do R&D enough to learn how to clone organs...and therefore save their worthless bigoted lives.
I salute you, sir.
I'm damn close to being an anarchist, these days....it can't be much different than what's already happening...
SB
Try solar. We already have the capability.
Oh, and most commercial fuel cells being developed use catalysts to seperate the hydrogen from natgas, propane, methane, gasoline, what have you.
SB