Conversely, I don't see why one couldn't make a Linux or OS X application that installed some system files (they do have shared libraries, right?)
Sure, but it's sane - they don't drop libfoo.7.0 in/usr/lib, they upgrade the libFoo package, and that is centrally controlled. You can also run multiple versions concurrently, which is hard to do on windows.
You're drastically changing the definition of downtime in order to support your initial premise
Not at all. Downtime is the inverse of availability, and if the app is always available, there is no downtime. As the GP said, who cares which machine is on the other end?
However, for backwards compatibility, the default mode is that of older MySQL versions, and hence you get default values for invalid data when constraints aren't met.
Tell you what, I'll just use a DB that prioritizes data integrity above backward compatibility. Jesus Christ, what drooling moron decided that inserting null into a not null column should result in a default value?
As any complex piece of engineering, one shouldn't try to do anything big with MySQL without reading the corresponding manual sections first
Any worthwhile product should adhere to the principle of least surprise - if you put on airs at being a RDBMS, then you had best behave like one. Stick a compat option for the people who want the bad old way and default to being a proper DB.
It's true that combining MyISAM and Innodb tables in transactional statements will screw up your data, but that's only because you shouldn't be using MyISAM tables in transactions in the first place!
Silly me, not knowing the secret nonportable tweaks I need to add to my sql to make things like foreign keys work.
And yes, English has only been 'standardised' (or -ized, whathaveyou) fairly recently, but the French would disagree that you can't tightly specify what is acceptable in the mother tongue.
Sure, you can regulate what French is, exactly, but there's no central authority, and no standard english, really - the best you can do is look at the places where au,us,uk english overlap and call that an agreed upon base.
The funny part is we agree on getting the language right, we just disagree on whether that can be a global thing or just regional.
Imagine a program with all single character variables. Now imagine that there are 10,000 variables allowed in a single scope and several differ by only one stroke.
How insolent of me to spell things as they are supposed to be spelled, according to the people who invented the bloody language. The gall!
Who are you to say which way is better? Slashdot is american-biased, so you should expect people to have a different idea about what's right, and you are dealing with some hair trigger pedantic nerds. Anyway, nobody invented any language - language just sort of happens, and english happened to a lot of people.
I don't think that sane really belongs in the same sentence with a RDBMS - they all suffer from their own dementia. Difference is, Mysql is mad King Ludwig.
Me too - I'm stuck with some nasty slow big-architecture code that I can't fix (not allowed). The devs who wrote it all quit or were canned, but they still think they've got a good or at least workable solution.
i hate going into ##sql on freenode, asking a question about SQL 92 joins and I get kicked because I said I'm using MySQL. WTF does mysql have anything to do with SQL92 syntax?
Good question. WTF does MYSQL have to do with sql?:)
i asked you a valid question, how does innodb not maintain referential integrity?
Simple: forget to use innodb or need FT indexing and all your foreign keys get ignored. IGNORED, not errored out.
thats exactly the type of attitude us mysql users are fed up with from you non-mysql users.
Too bad. Mysql shits itself enough that the rep is deserved.
and yes, i agree with you that mysql's not null default data is complete bullshit, but that was never part of your original argument
Sure it is - Mysql is a joke, and this is just a reflection of their attitude.
1) There's an IMMENSE difference between "can't remember" and "don't care".
If you can't remember pain, how can you dread its return?
2) Whether the victim can remember or not, is irrelevant to the definition of torture.
Not so - you need to make the victim fear the stimulus, and if they don't remember that what you just did hurt, how are you going to make them fear you doing it again?
3) There are so many different sorts of remembering. Even if one part of your brain isn't working and can't remember, the other parts might and react accordingly.
We're talking about crabs - if you have something with a 3 second memory window, then this point is irrelevant.
Why do you think these people started selling drugs in the first place? Because that $90K Oracle DBA Manager job was so unfulfilling?
What makes you think they were selling? Maybe some DBA liked bolivian marching powder on the weekends.
Have you tried to find a job with a felony conviction on your record lately?
Yeah, I remember when a felony meant something. Now it could mean you played a DVD on linux.
But don't think that closing the War on Drugs is going to be the end of the problem. All that's going to do is stop whitewashing over the rot and decay. Once we quit hiding behind this silly "War," the real work is going to begin.
True, but it will reduce the impact of the problem. It will also defund the drug cartels pretty much overnight.
When I went to school, Java hadn't been invented yet, and most of my classes were taught in Pascal.
When I went to college, Java was brand spanking new, STL was an unstable mess (yeah, yeah), and profs taught in whatever language they felt like. I picked up java 1.2,3,4,5,6 just fine and so can you. The problems are the same.
The colleges now are presumably teaching the new cool stuff.
No such thing. If you aren't going to ITT Tech, it hasn't changed much in 20 years, except that everyone has access to a powerful computer for cheap.
I highly recommend you study Python; a good book that walks you through the whole language will expose you to some cool stuff. Other people would urge you to study LISP; that will stretch your mind a bit. (When I was playing with LISP, I used the book The Little Schemer, and the DrScheme environment to run my code.)
Python is good, but annoying and marginalized due to the core devs being a bit standoffish. Ruby is taking over that space - learn both if you like. I'm reading the little schemer and my only problem is that guild isn't scriptable easily and the lisp on my box that is hates their dialect.
Slashdot Mirror
Conversely, I don't see why one couldn't make a Linux or OS X application that installed some system files (they do have shared libraries, right?)
Sure, but it's sane - they don't drop libfoo.7.0 in /usr/lib, they upgrade the libFoo package, and that is centrally controlled. You can also run multiple versions concurrently, which is hard to do on windows.
You're drastically changing the definition of downtime in order to support your initial premise
Not at all. Downtime is the inverse of availability, and if the app is always available, there is no downtime. As the GP said, who cares which machine is on the other end?
However, for backwards compatibility, the default mode is that of older MySQL versions, and hence you get default values for invalid data when constraints aren't met.
Tell you what, I'll just use a DB that prioritizes data integrity above backward compatibility. Jesus Christ, what drooling moron decided that inserting null into a not null column should result in a default value?
As any complex piece of engineering, one shouldn't try to do anything big with MySQL without reading the corresponding manual sections first
Any worthwhile product should adhere to the principle of least surprise - if you put on airs at being a RDBMS, then you had best behave like one. Stick a compat option for the people who want the bad old way and default to being a proper DB.
It's true that combining MyISAM and Innodb tables in transactional statements will screw up your data, but that's only because you shouldn't be using MyISAM tables in transactions in the first place!
Silly me, not knowing the secret nonportable tweaks I need to add to my sql to make things like foreign keys work.
Sounds good. I've got the first round.
And yes, English has only been 'standardised' (or -ized, whathaveyou) fairly recently, but the French would disagree that you can't tightly specify what is acceptable in the mother tongue.
Sure, you can regulate what French is, exactly, but there's no central authority, and no standard english, really - the best you can do is look at the places where au,us,uk english overlap and call that an agreed upon base.
The funny part is we agree on getting the language right, we just disagree on whether that can be a global thing or just regional.
Imagine a program with all single character variables. Now imagine that there are 10,000 variables allowed in a single scope and several differ by only one stroke.
Of course, all of those people can already speak English
Except for the Korean guy who has broken English and still agrees with the basic premise.
How insolent of me to spell things as they are supposed to be spelled, according to the people who invented the bloody language. The gall!
Who are you to say which way is better? Slashdot is american-biased, so you should expect people to have a different idea about what's right, and you are dealing with some hair trigger pedantic nerds. Anyway, nobody invented any language - language just sort of happens, and english happened to a lot of people.
OK, go learn the programming language FjÃlnir [wikipedia.org], that will require the knowledge of Icelandic.
Only if it involves Bjork somehow.
please don't be on any of my projects.
I don't think that sane really belongs in the same sentence with a RDBMS - they all suffer from their own dementia. Difference is, Mysql is mad King Ludwig.
Man, I hate you guys.
Me too - I'm stuck with some nasty slow big-architecture code that I can't fix (not allowed). The devs who wrote it all quit or were canned, but they still think they've got a good or at least workable solution.
i hate going into ##sql on freenode, asking a question about SQL 92 joins and I get kicked because I said I'm using MySQL. WTF does mysql have anything to do with SQL92 syntax?
Good question. WTF does MYSQL have to do with sql? :)
i asked you a valid question, how does innodb not maintain referential integrity?
Simple: forget to use innodb or need FT indexing and all your foreign keys get ignored. IGNORED, not errored out.
thats exactly the type of attitude us mysql users are fed up with from you non-mysql users.
Too bad. Mysql shits itself enough that the rep is deserved.
and yes, i agree with you that mysql's not null default data is complete bullshit, but that was never part of your original argument
Sure it is - Mysql is a joke, and this is just a reflection of their attitude.
And now pretend that you are, like many thousands of other people, hosted in a place that doesn't offer it.
Well, if it's anything big, it's probably a virtual server, so you can install anything you like on it. Event pgsql.
Enough with the knee-jerk elitism.
So wanting a DB that takes things like referential integrity and error reporting seriously is elitist? Bite me.
this ridiculously high standard of living
Oh poor me, I have the right to work here, but unlike most of europe, no health insurance.
1) There's an IMMENSE difference between "can't remember" and "don't care".
If you can't remember pain, how can you dread its return?
2) Whether the victim can remember or not, is irrelevant to the definition of torture.
Not so - you need to make the victim fear the stimulus, and if they don't remember that what you just did hurt, how are you going to make them fear you doing it again?
3) There are so many different sorts of remembering. Even if one part of your brain isn't working and can't remember, the other parts might and react accordingly.
We're talking about crabs - if you have something with a 3 second memory window, then this point is irrelevant.
If you can't remember the pain from 5 seconds ago or don't care, then how can it be torture?
yeah, so how would you know that it's never the girls who are aggressive and horny?
I could offer a copy of my eyeglass prescription.
Have you ever read The Economist ?
No, I just subscribe so I'll have something in my mailbox that isn't a bill.
Because I was a boy, once.
Were you ever a girl?
Why do you think these people started selling drugs in the first place? Because that $90K Oracle DBA Manager job was so unfulfilling?
What makes you think they were selling? Maybe some DBA liked bolivian marching powder on the weekends.
Have you tried to find a job with a felony conviction on your record lately?
Yeah, I remember when a felony meant something. Now it could mean you played a DVD on linux.
But don't think that closing the War on Drugs is going to be the end of the problem. All that's going to do is stop whitewashing over the rot and decay. Once we quit hiding behind this silly "War," the real work is going to begin.
True, but it will reduce the impact of the problem. It will also defund the drug cartels pretty much overnight.
If course, who's going to come out against kiddy porn laws? That's basically the radioactive third rail right there.
The thing is, if you give up trying to be unbiased, you get Fox News.
Or the Economist. Bias is OK as long as you acknowledge it - does Fox still claim to be fair and balanced?
When I went to school, Java hadn't been invented yet, and most of my classes were taught in Pascal.
When I went to college, Java was brand spanking new, STL was an unstable mess (yeah, yeah), and profs taught in whatever language they felt like. I picked up java 1.2,3,4,5,6 just fine and so can you. The problems are the same.
The colleges now are presumably teaching the new cool stuff.
No such thing. If you aren't going to ITT Tech, it hasn't changed much in 20 years, except that everyone has access to a powerful computer for cheap.
I highly recommend you study Python; a good book that walks you through the whole language will expose you to some cool stuff. Other people would urge you to study LISP; that will stretch your mind a bit. (When I was playing with LISP, I used the book The Little Schemer, and the DrScheme environment to run my code.)
Python is good, but annoying and marginalized due to the core devs being a bit standoffish. Ruby is taking over that space - learn both if you like. I'm reading the little schemer and my only problem is that guild isn't scriptable easily and the lisp on my box that is hates their dialect.