That's the legal age in most places of Canada to start working, what's the problem? In Ontario you'd need to be 15 to work in a factory. I had my first job (part time) when I was that age.
Dude, switch to decaf. All I'm saying is that the US has had beef with Iran since at least the 1950's. Not everything going on today traces its source to the coup in 1953. I understand that.
I was replying to people who seem to think the Iranians are just a bunch of theocratic assholes, and the US is just responding to their dickishness. They say things like, "...the narrative of blame the west is fake and contrived. blame the Iranians for the fruits of their own choices" and, "Iran wrote their own ticket. We might be a convenient excuse, but that's all it is". I'm sorry, but those statements do not take into account that the US has had an antagonistic posture towards Iran for the past 60 years and has made life difficult for them in various ways.
If we want to actually understand a dynamic, as opposed to just blaming someone and feeling better about ourselves, then we need to account for as many aspects as we can. We cannot understand what is going on in Iran without allowing for the role the West has played in creating the current situation. It is not all the fault of the US, but it's not all the fault of Iran either.
The only thing absurd here is the length to which you stretched my argument.
So, even though we have been trying to dstroy them since the fifties, we still sold them jet fighters? I'm pretty sure the bullseye went over them in 1979 after they overthrew the Shah, our buddy, and their oh so peaceful ruler.
Seems to me the bullseye is still squarely on them. And sure, we sold them jet fighters. The US is the #1 arms exporter in the world, we sell lots of people jet fighters. Heck, in the Iran/Iraq war we armed both sides at the same time! What can I say, alliances change and expediency makes strange bedfellows.
So, when they succeeded in preventing them from nationalizing their oil companies in the 1950's, how does that now apply to today?
It applies today because it set us on this course. In 1953 the CIA orchestrated a coup against the elected government and installed the Shah in power. He was a dictator, but he served the interests of the US. The Iranians didn't like that too much, which opened the way for the Ayatollah Khomeni to overthrow the Shah and retaliate against the US by taking hostages etc. The US has had an antagonistic relationship with Iran ever since.
I presume we'd probably be okay with Iran today if they didn't, you know, hold our diplomats hostage, call for the annihilation of the West and Israel, support terrorism, and try and build nuclear weapons. If Iran was in any real danger of being invaded, we'd have already done it, it's not like we were afraid of being in not one, but two Asian wars at the same time.
Iran wrote their own ticket. We might be a convenient excuse, but that's all it is.
As I said earlier, Iran's actions did not occur in a vacuum. I am not condoning their behavior, but it is disingenuous to act as though the US is just reacting to the Iranians being dicks. There is a dynamic between the US and Iran in which both are trying to get what they want. The other side (In Iran and the US) is demonized in the press to drum up public support for the national agenda.
You seem to be saying that the Iranian regime can do whatever it likes against the interests of the West, and the West is morally bound to ignore that and do business with Iran whenever the Iranians want. Sovereign nations have the right to withhold trade however and whenever it suits their national interest. This is an parallel of the Iranian desire to control its own oil trade. (BTW, oil nationalization, while perhaps radical in the 1950's, is now old hat. Look elsewhere for your paranoid fantasies.)
I was merely replying to the OP's contention that, "...the narrative of blame the west is fake and contrived. blame the Iranians for the fruits of their own choices". I pointed out that what is happening in Iran is not occurring in a vacuum, and that Western governments are putting enormous pressure on Iran; it's not as simple as the Iranians reaping what they sow.
Sovereign nations do indeed have the right to withhold trade. Just as Iran had the right to nationalize their oil companies. Except they got their government overthrown by the CIA for doing that. That's not a paranoid fantasy, it's history. I'm not sure what you mean by "old hat" when it comes to oil nationalization. AFAIK most oil is still pumped and refined by private companies.
the huge unnatural, external force in question is depending upon other nations, nations known to be hostile to your ideology, for essential services like printing money
what i am saying is the narrative of blame the west is fake and contrived. blame the iranians for the fruits of their own choices
Riiight. Because the situation Iran is in has nothing to do with the West. The US and its allies have been trying to take down Iran since they tried to nationalize their oil companies in the early 1950's. Iran has been demonized in the western press to encourage public support for attacking them. This hyperinflation situation is one more aspect of the full-court press being put on Iran by the US and its allies. Iran is under enormous pressure to play ball the way Washington and London want them to.
Tell the monied interests of England and its hegemony to eat feces and die.
Seriously, what is this referring to?
This refers to the powerful banking families that got their start in England and then extended their influence to the colonies before and after the revolution. These include such household names as the Morgans, the Warburgs, the Rothchilds, the Pierces, etc. They and others have used their power and wealth to influence societies and governments to serve their agendas. Nowadays especially, they do this quietly through back channels and organizations like the Rockefeller Foundation and the Council on Foreign Relations. This is so that the extent of their influence is not understood and therefore unopposed by most people.
The case stems from Supap Kirtsaengâ(TM)s college experience. A native of Thailand, Kirtsaeng came to America in 1997 to study at Cornell University. When he discovered that his textbooks, produced by Wiley, were substantially cheaper to buy in Thailand than they were in Ithaca, N.Y., he rallied his Thai relatives to buy the books and ship them to him in the United States.
I see. So when jobs get shipped overseas because labor is cheaper, and companies can make a higher profit, I'm told I have to accept lower wages and compete in a global marketplace. When a consumer notices that prices are cheaper abroad and buys books there to increase his profit here, the courts change one of the fundamental concepts of Capitalism (that you can resell what you purchase) to stop him.
Can there be any doubt we live in a Corporatocracy? Can I get a fucking witness?
The previous method, ID plates, are also read by machines, only just from the front or back, this just adds a few sides, left, right, top and down.
It's the best way to ensure that the billion additional people who'll get cars in the future don't kill or maim us.
If this method allows to weed out the morons who are incapable of using turn signs or stopping at red lights or obeying the speed limits, I'm for it.
Combined with an electronic license that starts the car only if it's valid and books fines automatically from the driver's account instead of forcing us to pay billions for police officers for this idiotic job it will make the traffic much more civilized.
I use my navigator on every trip, even if I know it by heart, because it warns me if I'm speeding. I don't see the point of watching all the time for signs behind trees and bushes and other crap that real police officers use to entrap us.
I would really like a cruise-control that gets its info from the navigator an sets its speed limit automatically instead of forcing me to adjust it all the time by hand to avoid radar traps.
Since the rise of the navigator I didn't get fined a single time.
I don't care for the 'freedom' to risk other people's lives.
So, you're ok with the government tracking all of your movements as long as it keeps you from accidentally speeding. Either this is a bad piece of astroturfing, or the price of your freedom is way too low.
There are virtually no government ministries that are effective, why would this one be different?
Effective at what? Catching terrorists? Yes, I agree, not very effective. Effective at sweeping up all kind of information about all kinds of people, for use later by who knows whom for who knows what? Very effective.
I was going to reply, but three AC's beat me to it! As they said, war is good for business. Energy companies, military contractors and banks make a hell of a lot of money off of war. Wars that drag on generate even bigger profits. That's partly why this war on terror has and will go on.
There were and are all sorts of restaurants. The consumers have CHOSEN to spend their money at places that serve food they like.
Maybe. Or maybe they have chosen to spend their money at places that are fast and cheap. A lot of people in this country, in a number of areas in their lives, make choices because they have to, not because they want to.
They're all biased, or at least have an agenda. It just depends on what flavor you like. The corporate media exist, at this point, to manage perception, not to inform.
We have RFID tags in our passports already, so they are already moving us towards electronic IDs. It's a foregone conclusion that the type of ID done for international flights will eventually crop up in domestic travel as well, for better or worse.
I microwave any RFID they dare to put in my papers. So should you.
"oh? no workee? I have a magnetic personality. Electronics just fail around my person."
While I agree with the sentiment, that's illegal when it comes to passports. They are government property, not yours, and you can be charged with destroying government property if you microwave one. Or you could just be refused entry when you arrive somewhere with a defective passport.
If you want to blame someone, start with DHS and the TSA. Apple isn't selling you out, your government sold you out.
Close but you're one level too shallow which is.. typical. DHS and TSA are effects. Not causes.
The causes are a bunch of Americans who think being fat and stupid is acceptable. They care a LOT more about who the next American Idol will be, or which football team wins a game (athletes == the really rich people nobody hates) than they do about our progress along a path to our own brand of fascism. Ever see mindless football fans jumping up and down, yelling and screaming etc. over a touchdown? If they got half that concerned and excited about freedom (real freedom, not the "freedom to tell other people how to live" bullshit) we wouldn't HAVE a TSA.
Fat stupid people who aren't terribly aware of what's going on is an environment. Government tyranny is an organism that thrives in this particular environment. It is not hard to understand. It's just hard for immature minds to accept because there is no nice fluffy-bunny way to say it that will never offend anybody. And to immature minds, being inoffensive no matter how low of a priority that should be in the face of bigger problems, is much more important than dealing with reality.
While I agree with you overall assessment of the attention level of the American people, I would point out that they are lied to and manipulated by the media and Corporate America, and whomever the CIA has working at ABC, CBS and NBC these days. People are conditioned to think America is just the definition of awesomeness. And awesome doesn't promote fascism. So a lot of them will not come to the conclusion on their own that Uncle Sam is slowly straight-jacketing them.
Some of us are naturally suspicious and skeptical of authority. I'm guessing you fall into that category. I know I do. From the moment I heard the US referred to as the "Homeland" I knew something was up. That is a very loaded word that was never used to describe our country before 9/11. But most people are too busy getting through their daily lives to pay attention to higher concepts like control of a population though fear, distraction and subtle intimidation. One can't think about that stuff when he is worried about how to make the rent this month.
The elite who rule this country understand that people can't really consider their position if they are scrambling for basic needs. A lot of people, when under stress, will look for escape. It is provided in the forms of vapid TV, infotainent "news", and shallow consumerism. The rulers have always understood the value of bread and circuses; today is no different. So I agree that the people of this country need to wake up and smell the authoritarianism. But I also know that there are forces arrayed against them that many are not equipped to resist.
...and lose the one real advantage the US system has: competition. That's the one factor obamacare completely ignored and the one thing that could have actually increased efficiency and lowered costs.
How does competition work in healthcare to bring down cost? Do I shop around for the lowest cost doctor (Hi, everybody!)? Or do I decide whether a doctor's recommended test is too expensive and not necessary? How do I, as a non-doctor, decide what my medical needs are and how they should be priced?
And, yes, I think Rush is in the top 1% of American income earners. Self made man, also. Kind of makes all the rest of us feel like worthless garbage, doesn't it.
Considering how he makes his money, no, not really.
Slashdot Mirror
That's the legal age in most places of Canada to start working, what's the problem? In Ontario you'd need to be 15 to work in a factory. I had my first job (part time) when I was that age.
The problem is that the legal working age in China is 16. http://www.loc.gov/law/help/child-rights/china.php
Oh, but the System wants you in!
Then why is he hoarding cans of Perriair?
Not having to import oil from middle eastern countries would be a worthy goal.
Agreed. Not starting wars to ensure our premiere access to that oil would be another.
Dude, switch to decaf. All I'm saying is that the US has had beef with Iran since at least the 1950's. Not everything going on today traces its source to the coup in 1953. I understand that.
I was replying to people who seem to think the Iranians are just a bunch of theocratic assholes, and the US is just responding to their dickishness. They say things like, "...the narrative of blame the west is fake and contrived. blame the Iranians for the fruits of their own choices" and, "Iran wrote their own ticket. We might be a convenient excuse, but that's all it is". I'm sorry, but those statements do not take into account that the US has had an antagonistic posture towards Iran for the past 60 years and has made life difficult for them in various ways.
If we want to actually understand a dynamic, as opposed to just blaming someone and feeling better about ourselves, then we need to account for as many aspects as we can. We cannot understand what is going on in Iran without allowing for the role the West has played in creating the current situation. It is not all the fault of the US, but it's not all the fault of Iran either.
The only thing absurd here is the length to which you stretched my argument.
So, even though we have been trying to dstroy them since the fifties, we still sold them jet fighters? I'm pretty sure the bullseye went over them in 1979 after they overthrew the Shah, our buddy, and their oh so peaceful ruler.
Seems to me the bullseye is still squarely on them. And sure, we sold them jet fighters. The US is the #1 arms exporter in the world, we sell lots of people jet fighters. Heck, in the Iran/Iraq war we armed both sides at the same time! What can I say, alliances change and expediency makes strange bedfellows.
So, when they succeeded in preventing them from nationalizing their oil companies in the 1950's, how does that now apply to today?
It applies today because it set us on this course. In 1953 the CIA orchestrated a coup against the elected government and installed the Shah in power. He was a dictator, but he served the interests of the US. The Iranians didn't like that too much, which opened the way for the Ayatollah Khomeni to overthrow the Shah and retaliate against the US by taking hostages etc. The US has had an antagonistic relationship with Iran ever since.
I presume we'd probably be okay with Iran today if they didn't, you know, hold our diplomats hostage, call for the annihilation of the West and Israel, support terrorism, and try and build nuclear weapons. If Iran was in any real danger of being invaded, we'd have already done it, it's not like we were afraid of being in not one, but two Asian wars at the same time.
Iran wrote their own ticket. We might be a convenient excuse, but that's all it is.
As I said earlier, Iran's actions did not occur in a vacuum. I am not condoning their behavior, but it is disingenuous to act as though the US is just reacting to the Iranians being dicks. There is a dynamic between the US and Iran in which both are trying to get what they want. The other side (In Iran and the US) is demonized in the press to drum up public support for the national agenda.
You seem to be saying that the Iranian regime can do whatever it likes against the interests of the West, and the West is morally bound to ignore that and do business with Iran whenever the Iranians want. Sovereign nations have the right to withhold trade however and whenever it suits their national interest. This is an parallel of the Iranian desire to control its own oil trade. (BTW, oil nationalization, while perhaps radical in the 1950's, is now old hat. Look elsewhere for your paranoid fantasies.)
I was merely replying to the OP's contention that, "...the narrative of blame the west is fake and contrived. blame the Iranians for the fruits of their own choices". I pointed out that what is happening in Iran is not occurring in a vacuum, and that Western governments are putting enormous pressure on Iran; it's not as simple as the Iranians reaping what they sow.
Sovereign nations do indeed have the right to withhold trade. Just as Iran had the right to nationalize their oil companies. Except they got their government overthrown by the CIA for doing that. That's not a paranoid fantasy, it's history. I'm not sure what you mean by "old hat" when it comes to oil nationalization. AFAIK most oil is still pumped and refined by private companies.
the huge unnatural, external force in question is depending upon other nations, nations known to be hostile to your ideology, for essential services like printing money
what i am saying is the narrative of blame the west is fake and contrived. blame the iranians for the fruits of their own choices
Riiight. Because the situation Iran is in has nothing to do with the West. The US and its allies have been trying to take down Iran since they tried to nationalize their oil companies in the early 1950's. Iran has been demonized in the western press to encourage public support for attacking them. This hyperinflation situation is one more aspect of the full-court press being put on Iran by the US and its allies. Iran is under enormous pressure to play ball the way Washington and London want them to.
Tell the monied interests of England and its hegemony to eat feces and die.
Seriously, what is this referring to?
This refers to the powerful banking families that got their start in England and then extended their influence to the colonies before and after the revolution. These include such household names as the Morgans, the Warburgs, the Rothchilds, the Pierces, etc. They and others have used their power and wealth to influence societies and governments to serve their agendas. Nowadays especially, they do this quietly through back channels and organizations like the Rockefeller Foundation and the Council on Foreign Relations. This is so that the extent of their influence is not understood and therefore unopposed by most people.
From TFA:
I see. So when jobs get shipped overseas because labor is cheaper, and companies can make a higher profit, I'm told I have to accept lower wages and compete in a global marketplace. When a consumer notices that prices are cheaper abroad and buys books there to increase his profit here, the courts change one of the fundamental concepts of Capitalism (that you can resell what you purchase) to stop him.
Can there be any doubt we live in a Corporatocracy? Can I get a fucking witness?
is thinking that "our common every day perceptions of the world" are somehow not reality. Model, indeed.
--
That really depends on how you define reality.
The previous method, ID plates, are also read by machines, only just from the front or back, this just adds a few sides, left, right, top and down. It's the best way to ensure that the billion additional people who'll get cars in the future don't kill or maim us.
If this method allows to weed out the morons who are incapable of using turn signs or stopping at red lights or obeying the speed limits, I'm for it.
Combined with an electronic license that starts the car only if it's valid and books fines automatically from the driver's account instead of forcing us to pay billions for police officers for this idiotic job it will make the traffic much more civilized. I use my navigator on every trip, even if I know it by heart, because it warns me if I'm speeding. I don't see the point of watching all the time for signs behind trees and bushes and other crap that real police officers use to entrap us. I would really like a cruise-control that gets its info from the navigator an sets its speed limit automatically instead of forcing me to adjust it all the time by hand to avoid radar traps. Since the rise of the navigator I didn't get fined a single time.
I don't care for the 'freedom' to risk other people's lives.
So, you're ok with the government tracking all of your movements as long as it keeps you from accidentally speeding. Either this is a bad piece of astroturfing, or the price of your freedom is way too low.
Even with Jeremy Clarkson in it?
There are virtually no government ministries that are effective, why would this one be different?
Effective at what? Catching terrorists? Yes, I agree, not very effective. Effective at sweeping up all kind of information about all kinds of people, for use later by who knows whom for who knows what? Very effective.
I was going to reply, but three AC's beat me to it! As they said, war is good for business. Energy companies, military contractors and banks make a hell of a lot of money off of war. Wars that drag on generate even bigger profits. That's partly why this war on terror has and will go on.
You have it backwards.
There were and are all sorts of restaurants. The consumers have CHOSEN to spend their money at places that serve food they like.
Maybe. Or maybe they have chosen to spend their money at places that are fast and cheap. A lot of people in this country, in a number of areas in their lives, make choices because they have to, not because they want to.
They're all biased, or at least have an agenda. It just depends on what flavor you like. The corporate media exist, at this point, to manage perception, not to inform.
You are confusing poor attention span with stupidity. Poor attention span can also lead to more creative thinking and thus more innovative ideas.
That's what I tell my boss, anyway! ;-)
You included an example of not being able to pick another road after you advised someone to just pick another road. Just sayin'.
We have RFID tags in our passports already, so they are already moving us towards electronic IDs. It's a foregone conclusion that the type of ID done for international flights will eventually crop up in domestic travel as well, for better or worse.
I microwave any RFID they dare to put in my papers. So should you.
"oh? no workee? I have a magnetic personality. Electronics just fail around my person."
While I agree with the sentiment, that's illegal when it comes to passports. They are government property, not yours, and you can be charged with destroying government property if you microwave one. Or you could just be refused entry when you arrive somewhere with a defective passport.
you become what you hate.
1984.
So Slashdot will become Apple?
No, Van Halen.
If you want to blame someone, start with DHS and the TSA. Apple isn't selling you out, your government sold you out.
Close but you're one level too shallow which is .. typical. DHS and TSA are effects. Not causes.
The causes are a bunch of Americans who think being fat and stupid is acceptable. They care a LOT more about who the next American Idol will be, or which football team wins a game (athletes == the really rich people nobody hates) than they do about our progress along a path to our own brand of fascism. Ever see mindless football fans jumping up and down, yelling and screaming etc. over a touchdown? If they got half that concerned and excited about freedom (real freedom, not the "freedom to tell other people how to live" bullshit) we wouldn't HAVE a TSA.
Fat stupid people who aren't terribly aware of what's going on is an environment. Government tyranny is an organism that thrives in this particular environment. It is not hard to understand. It's just hard for immature minds to accept because there is no nice fluffy-bunny way to say it that will never offend anybody. And to immature minds, being inoffensive no matter how low of a priority that should be in the face of bigger problems, is much more important than dealing with reality.
While I agree with you overall assessment of the attention level of the American people, I would point out that they are lied to and manipulated by the media and Corporate America, and whomever the CIA has working at ABC, CBS and NBC these days. People are conditioned to think America is just the definition of awesomeness. And awesome doesn't promote fascism. So a lot of them will not come to the conclusion on their own that Uncle Sam is slowly straight-jacketing them.
Some of us are naturally suspicious and skeptical of authority. I'm guessing you fall into that category. I know I do. From the moment I heard the US referred to as the "Homeland" I knew something was up. That is a very loaded word that was never used to describe our country before 9/11. But most people are too busy getting through their daily lives to pay attention to higher concepts like control of a population though fear, distraction and subtle intimidation. One can't think about that stuff when he is worried about how to make the rent this month.
The elite who rule this country understand that people can't really consider their position if they are scrambling for basic needs. A lot of people, when under stress, will look for escape. It is provided in the forms of vapid TV, infotainent "news", and shallow consumerism. The rulers have always understood the value of bread and circuses; today is no different. So I agree that the people of this country need to wake up and smell the authoritarianism. But I also know that there are forces arrayed against them that many are not equipped to resist.
...and lose the one real advantage the US system has: competition. That's the one factor obamacare completely ignored and the one thing that could have actually increased efficiency and lowered costs.
How does competition work in healthcare to bring down cost? Do I shop around for the lowest cost doctor (Hi, everybody!)? Or do I decide whether a doctor's recommended test is too expensive and not necessary? How do I, as a non-doctor, decide what my medical needs are and how they should be priced?
And, yes, I think Rush is in the top 1% of American income earners. Self made man, also. Kind of makes all the rest of us feel like worthless garbage, doesn't it.
Considering how he makes his money, no, not really.