Look, there's no need to be condescending. All I'm saying is that man pages could be more than just a reference for those who no longer need to learn, if they consistently have
1. good, useful examples 2. more context, such as 'used when' and 'similar to' etc. in addition to the often terse descriptions 3. redirection for more info, such as 'to learn more about...' instead of just 'see also'
Why is this relevant to more than the experts? Because in the absence of decent (or any other) documentation, we're left with man pages.
Gone are the days when the only people who use unix-y shells are tied to a university CS or physics dept. or lost in the basement. So you now have all these other folks, like me, who are wiling to learn enough to get by but not to become experts... I went for 20 years between working on a mainframe with TeX to booting up Linux and trying to get a sound card working.
So, the "angle" I'm coming at is that I don't want to become a command line expert to get stuff done, but still have to use it, and don't want to wade through a manual or take a course. I'm used to things being somewhat discoverable, or well-explained, because I can usually figure them out that way, and in fact am border-line familiar enough with the bash shell that man pages actually can help. And I'm not alone.
oh, don't get me started.... ALL OS's suck, they just incite different kinds of violent feelings!
MS has always had a central figurehead to vent spleen upon. Linux just gives one a feeling of antipathy towards nerd-dom... unless it's the urge to revenge that comes from a particularly bad man page.
The user does not want to learn how to do anything more on his computer than get is work done or enjoy the entertainment.
Now now, no need to be a douche to those of us who do want to learn, but want to learn as we go.
The 'user' you're talking about is common, but there are a significant minority of people who have a life and other interests, yet wish to improve their understanding of things like using a shell... without taking a course, or giving up a significant portion of our life.
All we want is tiered documentation that includes a few pointers for those new to the command to be included in man pages etc.; things like examples, and related concepts, and scenarios. A simple paragraph would suffice, usually.
The man pages are more for learning (you can troubleshoot with them too, but diagnostic info in them are going to be lacking, just like trying to rely on the Windows Help files to fix a busted Exchange connector). Odds are, a beginner/apprentice won't know what to do with 'em for fixing a problem unless he/she is a royal badass at general computing/programming practices.
The fascinating thing about man pages, for me, was how utterly obscure some of them are to beginners. Most of them assume an intermediate understanding of unixy concepts, and don't bother to explain the context of the command -- i.e. when and why you would want to use it in the first place!
The whole experience of learning to use the command line reeked of disdain for those who hadn't been to school (or endless sexless nights in the basement) to study the stuff, and myopia about the fact that someone may be coming at all this from a different angle.
Which I guess is just nerdly, right? what did I expect.
I'm almost a fanboy (transcoding video on one mac and moving 900GB on another, while updating linux mint on an old xp box and posting on a win7 netbook ATM) but have to point out that Apple bought FCP, then made it theirs.
"Apple computers seem to have a longer life span."
Until you take into account their support cycle, where they pretty much stop support for anything older than 3 years.
While true, this doesn't acknowledge the reality that, like a toyota,* old macs hold their value because the ones that survive generally turn out to be very reliable, and the older operating systems (10.3 and up) remain pretty functional.
*couldn't resist a car metaphor
A 5-year old Mac that's still running is a pretty good bet for a used computer; expect to replace the hard drive, but no worries about the power supply, for instance. I recently sold a 9-year-old iBook that was still quite functional despite chips knocked out of the plastic shell due to tumbles.
I specc'ed out a hackintosh for the last upgrade I did, a year ago. I edit video and audio, 2D design, web dev, etc. so needed to keep using OS X, and wanted a tower.
By the time I priced out an IPS monitor, quality compact case and PS, silent fans and cooling, quality firewire and audio (all at newegg or ncix prices or less), I was $150CDN short of a refurb iMac 24", and my time and warranty desires more than make up for that.
Then, there is the value equation of Mac resale value. Like a toyota or mercedes, the used ones are priced high because they frakkin' well last, so instead of replacing parts you just replace the whole unit, which makes it cheaper overall than a heavily depreciated generic box.
So, your comparison doesn't take into consideration three important things I discovered in my hackintosh:
I can't really see the value added in running OS X on my EeePC and so really have no willingness to jump through the hoops to try and get it running
You won't get it running on your Eee. However, if you have a Dell, MSI, or HP netbook (certain models, anyway) and want to install OSX 10.6 on it, there aren't many more steps than, say, getting an XP install working on a typical build-yer-own box in 2006... download a few drivers, a few reboots, etc. Pretty easy, really, if you are any kind of nerd (or can run BSD).
The benefits are obvious: ooh shiny!... though I would skip installing photoshop on a netbook.
As for it appearing in other spots there are very few places that iDisk and MobileMe appear. I think there's a button in iPhoto and a PreferencePane in System Preferences. It's really not that in-your-face.
Well, you're right, the mobileme-iDisk feature of OSX isn't terrible if you don't want to pay apple's extortion rates, merely irritating. Shows up in Mail, pesters during setup, a few other places, preferences here preferences there etc. You know what? That's just like other crapware on windows!
Most of the beginner users I support on Macs wind up with it permanently in the finder sidebar, which is very confusing when they click on it by accident and don't understand what's happening. That = crapware as it's intrusive and useless.
It tips farther over into crapware-land in the sense that it's merely a webdav function that apple has made difficult to use with anything other than their proprietary service, thus obstructing some functions that could be easily opened up to other open standard based services.
Are you saying MobileMe is nagware because when you first install the OS it asks you once if you want to try a 30 day trial?
The whole mobileme - idisk setup on Macs is definitely crapware to me, because that idisk icon is in the sidebar after you reject it, and numerous other networking related places in the GUI. It doesn't compare to booting up a fresh budget Acer, but it's definitely intrusive advertising clutter.
the #1 response would be "stuff you don't need on your computer." It doesn't have to slow it down, it doesn't have to have an enormous memory footprint when it's running or a huge disk footprint when it isn't, it just has to be stuff you don't need.
Maybe, or maybe the #1 response would be "intrusive software that clutters things up or gets in the way or tries to sell you stuff" -- so in that sense apache, php, pico, etc. wouldn't be, since they aren't running until you tell them to, and stay invisible to the GUI. You're splitting hairs and making a practical definition useless.
Have you ever used iWeb? iDVD? Some would consider the whole iLife to be crapware because they plan to get higher-end, more professional applications through which to vent their creativity. And if they're thinking about office use, they're likely to go the route of Microsoft Office / OpenOffice, so bang goes Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.
"Some" perhaps, more like the exception that proves the rule. The vast majority of us pro creative types don't mind having the iLife apps around, the same way a carpenter doesn't always use a nail gun. Some jobs just want something simple and very quick, and some of us separate family snaps into iPhoto and keep the work stuff in Lightroom, e.g.
iTunes will rip to mp3. Quicktime provides important basic media functions and yet can be ignored or easily replaced (but I know quite a few video pros who use it like a swiss army knife, myself included).
The iWork trialware is different -- I think that qualifies as crapware, as any preloaded trialware is.
Being useful software doesn't make it immune from the crapware label, I suppose. The shite that toshiba puts on its laptops to run the hardware, for instance, seems useful at first... until you realize it gets in the way and sucks ram and cycles, doesn't work as advertised, and crashes regularly. That tips it over into crapware land out of the grey zone.
I once was a manager in a corporation whose strategic mandate was "to counteract the transnational corporate agenda" --- because that was the only way to ensure the future profitability of the corporation. Naturally that mandate was kept somewhat quiet.
It came about because of the nature of the corporation's demographic: youthful indie filmmakers. Without that kind of a motive actually driving policy decisions, the brand would fade. Not only that, but because the employees were pretty much being exploited, without giving them a 'labour of love' morale the turnover would have been too high. Interestingly, as the shareholders and directors slowly turned that mandate into lip service, the business began to suffer and required much more intense marketing and more aggressive hiring to grow.
I think that there is enough educated cynicism in the regular population that many corporations could justify ethical social values to their shareholders under the banner of developing customer loyalty. However, my anecdotal experience is that to float to the top in a large corporation requires some degree of sociopathy, unless you get there before the organisation gets too large. YMMV. (cf. Dilbert)
Just to clarify, the parent meant the perineum, the area between genitals and anus, and misspelled perineal. At least I'm pretty sure he didn't mean to refer to plants which bloom year after year (perennials).
Also, I've lived on a bike on cross-continental rides, and he's right, the wrong saddle is more than just a pain in the ass.
Not BS - my mom had both knees replaced at the same time -- yet she'd never perch on one of these, not EVER, out of fear. I'm guessing if yr mom won't get on a mobility scooter (3 wheelers cost abt $600) she won't be hopping on a unicycle!
If you're intrepid enough to sit on a motorized unicycle, automated stabilizers aside, you're very likely able and willing to walk 4mph. So, it's no surprise they don't plan on bringing it to market.
However, nice proof of concept as a base for robots.
I wonder what use they might have for such low profit figures
Every film production has three budgets: the studio budget (for investors), the taxman budget, and the real budget (producer eyes-only). There's a combination of outrageous above-the-line costs (producer and main actor fees) and, as the GP mentioned, dubious inflated line items, that allow these production budgets to play various stakeholders for chumps.
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Look, there's no need to be condescending. All I'm saying is that man pages could be more than just a reference for those who no longer need to learn, if they consistently have
1. good, useful examples
2. more context, such as 'used when' and 'similar to' etc. in addition to the often terse descriptions
3. redirection for more info, such as 'to learn more about...' instead of just 'see also'
Why is this relevant to more than the experts? Because in the absence of decent (or any other) documentation, we're left with man pages.
Gone are the days when the only people who use unix-y shells are tied to a university CS or physics dept. or lost in the basement. So you now have all these other folks, like me, who are wiling to learn enough to get by but not to become experts... I went for 20 years between working on a mainframe with TeX to booting up Linux and trying to get a sound card working.
So, the "angle" I'm coming at is that I don't want to become a command line expert to get stuff done, but still have to use it, and don't want to wade through a manual or take a course. I'm used to things being somewhat discoverable, or well-explained, because I can usually figure them out that way, and in fact am border-line familiar enough with the bash shell that man pages actually can help. And I'm not alone.
oh, don't get me started.... ALL OS's suck, they just incite different kinds of violent feelings!
MS has always had a central figurehead to vent spleen upon. Linux just gives one a feeling of antipathy towards nerd-dom... unless it's the urge to revenge that comes from a particularly bad man page.
Something that's long been on my list of "ideas I'll get around to some day" is to build a scaffolding for a vastly more useful "help" command.
Linux documentation... the ultimate vapourware.
The user does not want to learn how to do anything more on his computer than get is work done or enjoy the entertainment.
Now now, no need to be a douche to those of us who do want to learn, but want to learn as we go.
The 'user' you're talking about is common, but there are a significant minority of people who have a life and other interests, yet wish to improve their understanding of things like using a shell... without taking a course, or giving up a significant portion of our life.
All we want is tiered documentation that includes a few pointers for those new to the command to be included in man pages etc.; things like examples, and related concepts, and scenarios. A simple paragraph would suffice, usually.
The man pages are more for learning (you can troubleshoot with them too, but diagnostic info in them are going to be lacking, just like trying to rely on the Windows Help files to fix a busted Exchange connector). Odds are, a beginner/apprentice won't know what to do with 'em for fixing a problem unless he/she is a royal badass at general computing/programming practices.
The fascinating thing about man pages, for me, was how utterly obscure some of them are to beginners. Most of them assume an intermediate understanding of unixy concepts, and don't bother to explain the context of the command -- i.e. when and why you would want to use it in the first place!
The whole experience of learning to use the command line reeked of disdain for those who hadn't been to school (or endless sexless nights in the basement) to study the stuff, and myopia about the fact that someone may be coming at all this from a different angle.
Which I guess is just nerdly, right? what did I expect.
This is why I wanted to KILL linux developers when I first started teaching myself this stuff. Thanks for the laugh...
The "premium" this particular consumer will have to pay will be a refinement of the Purgatory section of my hosts file.
whippersnapper! When I was a kid all our computing was done with yarrow sticks.
Yes, obviously the computers, mp3 players and phones simply didn't work at all before Apple came along.
Respectfully (because maybe you weren't there to see it), desktop computing before the Woz really sucked.
I'm almost a fanboy (transcoding video on one mac and moving 900GB on another, while updating linux mint on an old xp box and posting on a win7 netbook ATM) but have to point out that Apple bought FCP, then made it theirs.
But Hypercard still rocks.
"Apple computers seem to have a longer life span."
Until you take into account their support cycle, where they pretty much stop support for anything older than 3 years.
While true, this doesn't acknowledge the reality that, like a toyota,* old macs hold their value because the ones that survive generally turn out to be very reliable, and the older operating systems (10.3 and up) remain pretty functional.
*couldn't resist a car metaphor
A 5-year old Mac that's still running is a pretty good bet for a used computer; expect to replace the hard drive, but no worries about the power supply, for instance. I recently sold a 9-year-old iBook that was still quite functional despite chips knocked out of the plastic shell due to tumbles.
Can somebody please develop a CMS for people without Asperger's ?!
For small projects: FrogCMS.
For blogs: wordpress.
For other, more complex sites, try ExpressionEngine.
For galleries, zenphoto.
huh, guess you didn't read my reply.
Right. Like posting on /.!
I specc'ed out a hackintosh for the last upgrade I did, a year ago. I edit video and audio, 2D design, web dev, etc. so needed to keep using OS X, and wanted a tower.
By the time I priced out an IPS monitor, quality compact case and PS, silent fans and cooling, quality firewire and audio (all at newegg or ncix prices or less), I was $150CDN short of a refurb iMac 24", and my time and warranty desires more than make up for that.
Then, there is the value equation of Mac resale value. Like a toyota or mercedes, the used ones are priced high because they frakkin' well last, so instead of replacing parts you just replace the whole unit, which makes it cheaper overall than a heavily depreciated generic box.
So, your comparison doesn't take into consideration three important things I discovered in my hackintosh:
1. SILENT operation (imacs really quiet)
2. screen quality
3. RESALE value
That said, I fully intend on putting snow leopard on a hp netbook later this month.
I can't really see the value added in running OS X on my EeePC and so really have no willingness to jump through the hoops to try and get it running
You won't get it running on your Eee. However, if you have a Dell, MSI, or HP netbook (certain models, anyway) and want to install OSX 10.6 on it, there aren't many more steps than, say, getting an XP install working on a typical build-yer-own box in 2006... download a few drivers, a few reboots, etc. Pretty easy, really, if you are any kind of nerd (or can run BSD).
The benefits are obvious: ooh shiny! ... though I would skip installing photoshop on a netbook.
As for it appearing in other spots there are very few places that iDisk and MobileMe appear. I think there's a button in iPhoto and a PreferencePane in System Preferences. It's really not that in-your-face.
Well, you're right, the mobileme-iDisk feature of OSX isn't terrible if you don't want to pay apple's extortion rates, merely irritating. Shows up in Mail, pesters during setup, a few other places, preferences here preferences there etc. You know what? That's just like other crapware on windows!
Most of the beginner users I support on Macs wind up with it permanently in the finder sidebar, which is very confusing when they click on it by accident and don't understand what's happening. That = crapware as it's intrusive and useless.
It tips farther over into crapware-land in the sense that it's merely a webdav function that apple has made difficult to use with anything other than their proprietary service, thus obstructing some functions that could be easily opened up to other open standard based services.
Are you saying MobileMe is nagware because when you first install the OS it asks you once if you want to try a 30 day trial?
The whole mobileme - idisk setup on Macs is definitely crapware to me, because that idisk icon is in the sidebar after you reject it, and numerous other networking related places in the GUI. It doesn't compare to booting up a fresh budget Acer, but it's definitely intrusive advertising clutter.
the #1 response would be "stuff you don't need on your computer." It doesn't have to slow it down, it doesn't have to have an enormous memory footprint when it's running or a huge disk footprint when it isn't, it just has to be stuff you don't need.
Maybe, or maybe the #1 response would be "intrusive software that clutters things up or gets in the way or tries to sell you stuff" -- so in that sense apache, php, pico, etc. wouldn't be, since they aren't running until you tell them to, and stay invisible to the GUI. You're splitting hairs and making a practical definition useless.
Have you ever used iWeb? iDVD? Some would consider the whole iLife to be crapware because they plan to get higher-end, more professional applications through which to vent their creativity. And if they're thinking about office use, they're likely to go the route of Microsoft Office / OpenOffice, so bang goes Pages, Numbers, and Keynote.
"Some" perhaps, more like the exception that proves the rule. The vast majority of us pro creative types don't mind having the iLife apps around, the same way a carpenter doesn't always use a nail gun. Some jobs just want something simple and very quick, and some of us separate family snaps into iPhoto and keep the work stuff in Lightroom, e.g.
iTunes will rip to mp3. Quicktime provides important basic media functions and yet can be ignored or easily replaced (but I know quite a few video pros who use it like a swiss army knife, myself included).
The iWork trialware is different -- I think that qualifies as crapware, as any preloaded trialware is.
Being useful software doesn't make it immune from the crapware label, I suppose. The shite that toshiba puts on its laptops to run the hardware, for instance, seems useful at first... until you realize it gets in the way and sucks ram and cycles, doesn't work as advertised, and crashes regularly. That tips it over into crapware land out of the grey zone.
Mod parent up. A proper multimeter and a power supply voltage chart is the skeptic's answer to all kinds of hardware voodoo.
I once was a manager in a corporation whose strategic mandate was "to counteract the transnational corporate agenda" --- because that was the only way to ensure the future profitability of the corporation. Naturally that mandate was kept somewhat quiet.
It came about because of the nature of the corporation's demographic: youthful indie filmmakers. Without that kind of a motive actually driving policy decisions, the brand would fade. Not only that, but because the employees were pretty much being exploited, without giving them a 'labour of love' morale the turnover would have been too high. Interestingly, as the shareholders and directors slowly turned that mandate into lip service, the business began to suffer and required much more intense marketing and more aggressive hiring to grow.
I think that there is enough educated cynicism in the regular population that many corporations could justify ethical social values to their shareholders under the banner of developing customer loyalty. However, my anecdotal experience is that to float to the top in a large corporation requires some degree of sociopathy, unless you get there before the organisation gets too large. YMMV. (cf. Dilbert)
Just to clarify, the parent meant the perineum, the area between genitals and anus, and misspelled perineal. At least I'm pretty sure he didn't mean to refer to plants which bloom year after year (perennials).
Also, I've lived on a bike on cross-continental rides, and he's right, the wrong saddle is more than just a pain in the ass.
Not BS - my mom had both knees replaced at the same time -- yet she'd never perch on one of these, not EVER, out of fear. I'm guessing if yr mom won't get on a mobility scooter (3 wheelers cost abt $600) she won't be hopping on a unicycle!
If you're intrepid enough to sit on a motorized unicycle, automated stabilizers aside, you're very likely able and willing to walk 4mph. So, it's no surprise they don't plan on bringing it to market.
However, nice proof of concept as a base for robots.
I wonder what use they might have for such low profit figures
Every film production has three budgets: the studio budget (for investors), the taxman budget, and the real budget (producer eyes-only). There's a combination of outrageous above-the-line costs (producer and main actor fees) and, as the GP mentioned, dubious inflated line items, that allow these production budgets to play various stakeholders for chumps.