even the human grade stuff is a problem if it's used wrong. Like I said, you'd be amazed at the kinds of chemicals girls'll use in the pursuit of nice hair.
there are multiple tiers of the license. How much you need depends on what chemicals you work with. If you're a dude (most of us/.ers are) you have no idea how crazy some of chemicals they work with are. The stuff women will do to get straight hair if they're born with curly or curly hair if they're born with straight is absurd. Come to think of it, every girl I've ever met wants the opposite type of hair they were born with...
I think the rise of licenses isn't just mean spirited folks wanting to raise wages. It's got more to do with computers making it easy to track folks and wide spread mass media leading to more people hearing stories of what happens when somebody without training does something dangerous. If it's one thing that 20 years in the workforce has taught me it's that companies do as little training as humanly possible.
there are other visa programs for getting the best and brightest. H1-B is specifically to fill worker shortages in order to improve the over all economy. The argument goes that workers will not be displaced and the increased economic activity will help them.
In practice what happens is that the rich and powerful stop funding schools and training programs (since they have a supply of cheap, already trained folks from overseas). If you've got kids this is a big part of why their college costs $150k from a public University. It also depresses wages.
The H1-B program needs to end. No amount of reform can save it. It's intended purpose was always a lie.
It'll just delay the disaster. The trouble is there aren't going to be enough jobs to go around for people who aren't math whizes. It's like when the manufacturing jobs went overseas and everybody was told to retain for biotech. We just don't need that many rank and file in that industry.
Mine all had the same mix of Basic programming books. Also, even if you did find a book you needed software. It wasn't until GCC and the like that compilers and assemblers were free. A good assembler would be $200-$300 bucks (adjusted for inflation). The books needed to make good use of it could be another $200 bucks easy. And that assumes you never get stuck _anywhere_ because if you did odds are there wasn't anyone there to help you out.
at least in the States. The H1-B program requires companies try to hire a local employee first. The rules say they can only have an H1-B if no qualified applicants are available. So everybody becomes a "Senior" developer and since there aren't enough people with the necessary credentials (there never are) they can always apply for an H1-B. This is also why companies don't pay to train anymore.
Of my investors. Ever read the history of the Commodore Amiga? Jack Tramiel basically backed the engineers into a corner that let him take everything until Commodore road in and saved the day. Tech investors have a long history of screwing over start up. So yeah, I'd care who the guy voted for. Maybe I'd still risk it. But I'd be aware of the risk...
If your dad was an engineer, good for you. Also good for you if you were some kind of Savant or if you had a well stocked library or the dude at the computer store wasn't just some pimply faced teen but knew stuff.
For the rest of us we kinda hit a wall on programming after the limited information we had was exhausted. It was '93 before I got my hands on copies of Computer! Gazette and learned that machine language was a thing. My teachers were all pretty useless too (and I went to a tech themed "magnet" school).
Nowadays I can open a browser, start typing in stuff like "How to make games", find Stackoverflow and away I go. Learning to program is way, way easier.
Now, getting a _job_ is way, way harder. H1-Bs + outsourcing means programming jobs are impossible to get without a 4 year degree (at least in the States).
and Democratic Socialist. I had several family members screwed over by the US Healthcare system, which opened my eyes. Finding out that Wallet Biopsies were a thing (I experienced one before hearing the Sopranos name it) was a frightening ordeal. College History courses helped too. Finding out that slavery was basically a caste system used to keep poor white southerners in their place (slaves were a poor deal, cheap immigrant labor was much, much more profitable) and getting the internet and finding out that through out history bigotry, racism and caste systems have been used over and over again by the 1% to divide and conqueror the working class cinched it.
The Trump/Russia/NRA isn't made up. It's been pretty well researched. I suppose the point could be made that Trump didn't know about it, but that's part of the whole scam. Trump isn't really a leader, he's a demagogue. So he never has to actually know anything about the corruption that supports him. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be taken down by it. Trump isn't just a man anymore, he's an administration. He's the executor of the US Government. As a leader he's responsible for what his people do. Especially when it's so obvious he's turning a blind eye.
it's an application of tech. VC firms don't do a whole hell of a lot of actual tech. Return on investment is too slow. A few megacorps still spend a bit on R&D, mostly for the tax write offs. The majority of actual new tech comes out of the University system.
You're nuts. First thing I did was make sure my kid _didn't_ go into engineering. Then again I'm in the States, and virtually all our manufacturing base is gone. The H1-B visa program doesn't help matters either. Without that base there's damn few jobs. If you're really, really good you can get something, but if you just competent you're boned. At my company we've got several engineers... in the accounting department. They know enough math and besides they've got college degrees so we hired them.
My kid went into medical and I made sure she did. I did that because Doctors have a Union (the AMA) that looks out for their members.
especially when you've got people in a position of power. What touched all this off was decades of sexual harassment coming to light. In particular the kind that gets dismissed with 'well it's all in good fun' or 'it's just hugs'. It's come out that a lot of the kinds of things we thought ended in the 60s and 70s where still widespread.
I don't think it's unreasonable to want to write down what that line is either. If you don't then everybody says it's arbitrary when the community comes down on someone unless what that person did is so egregious that either a lawsuit or police might be involved. FreeBSD, like any decent sized org, would like very much to keep it from every getting to that.
they say he disseminated it out to a wider audience knowing it would stir up trouble. Also knowing that it would likely be leaked outside the company. Basically, he was shitposting on a sensitive topic.
Now, you can argue he didn't intend to do that (in fact that's exactly what you're doing) but that wouldn't be the conclusion of the labor board. The labor board disagrees with you.
For my money I don't have enough information. I'd want to know what happened with the document after he wrote it. Who did he share it with. Who actually leaked it (if that's known). Did management talk to him about it and ask him to stop disseminating it because it was having a negative impact on the work environment? Did they follow their own internal procedures in that regard? Did they have procedures for shutting down these kinds of discussions when they cease to benefit the work environment? Just because Google started a conversation doesn't mean they can't stop and say "Hey everyone, sorry, we shouldn't have started this conversation, OK? So let's just stop and go back to work".
I want political views protected. But I also agree that the workplace isn't where politics should be debated. Yes, it was kind of bone headed for Google to start that conversation (especially in a male dominated workplace where it's likely to be a sensitive topic). But mistakes can be made and then corrected in a way beneficial to everyone.
I don't have nearly enough context to say if the board's decision was right or not. I'm guessing this will go to court as a wrongful termination lawsuit. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
which is one of the scariest things to come out of this century. There's been a general eroding of scientific thinking that started with Climate Change deniers and anti-vaxers and seems to be spreading. Somewhere along the line people started acting like all ideas are equally valid. Science itself is partly to blame, because it never likes to use words that make things sound certain even when it is. Richard Dawkins has lengthy writings and videos on the subject.
protecting political speech. I was really expecting this to fall under those laws. I don't know a lot about them though. They might still get invoked in a lawsuit though.
I don't agree with this guy, but it make me nervous to think he was fired for political views. Still, the labor board's ruling is public and revealed a lot about Google's thought process and reasoning behind the firing. It doesn't seem to have been a knee jerk reaction but was done in response to the furor and uproar the memo caused combined with him sending the memo around intentionally. The ruling implies he was stirring up trouble and knew it. But that's hard to say. I suspect their be a lawsuit. If Google settles we'll never really know, but if it goes to court I suppose we'll find out.
I will say this, I've heard tales of companies trying to do shady firing practices in the past. The stories go that as the employees in question were being walked out HR got wind of it and literally ran out and begged them to take their jobs back. And this is not in a State known for strong labor laws like CA. HR reps take unlawful firings very, very seriously. I think Google dotted those i's and crossed the t's here. Meaning if the lawsuit does happen it's going to be very interesting.
I've read multiple places that the studies he cited have been discredited, sometimes by the study authors themselves. Still not sure I agree with the firing, but judging by the ruling's contents it wasn't just a knee jerk reaction. AmiMoJo already covered the details further up this thread, but it's not fair to say this is just folks ignoring facts.
Every leftist I know is saying we _SHOULD_ politicize this tragedy. One of the common memes on the left it that it's always "too soon" to talk about gun control and if it's too soon to talk about it after this mass shooting how about use the last one?
Also, I don't know _anyone_ on the left who wants to ban all guns. Even the really left wing nutters I know gave up on that. And not just for politics, but because with 300 million guns in America it's virtually impossible. Remember, we don't want to lock folks up for no good reason. We support legalizing drugs for fucks sake. Hell, a lot of us support legalizing _all_ drugs like parts of the Neatherlands did (albeit also with nationalized healthcare that treats drug addiction as a serious illness). The last thing we want is to ban guns and start locking folks up for owning one. We want _less_ people in prison, not more.
the 'well regulated' part. _Nothing_ in the Constitution is there by accident. The Constitution _does_ allow arms to be regulated.
Any violence is _not_ the only option. That kind of thinking is exactly what makes a single issue voter. There's zero room for compromise or even common sense in that kind of thinking. _Anyone_ who opposes unlimited access to firearms is an enemy who's one step away from killing us all.
Among the pro-gun lobby it's impossible to imagine a control advocate who doesn't immediately resort to violence. I can think of several reasons why the pro-gun lobby is like this (none of them good) but I can't think of anything that can be done about it. I'd rather see the left drop the issue and, like that comic says, live with the occasional horrific civilian massacre.
or if nothing else to raise our voices and try to drown the shills out. Slashdot is a site full of older engineers and tech people (it's a site from the 90s after all). It's bound to be a prime target since older, well-to-do STEM professionals are going to prone to the right wing (since the right wing's co-opted conservatism and, well, like my history teacher used to say when you've got something to lose you get real conservative real fast). Our little community needs more voices of sanity to keep us away from the excesses of conservatism.
Nobody ever said the American people were unfit to vote. What we _did_ say is that they, like everybody, are capable of being lied to about the sources of information. Kinda like when a Cigarette company backs a study on the health benefits of tobacco. Or when Coke did the same thing. You'd want to know who backed that study. Lying by omission is a thing. A democracy lives and breaths by the quality of information available.
And no, there's still plenty of talk about the Russians hacking the election. They got caught funneling money through the NRA to Trump's campagin, and the only question is are we doing to do anything about it. Then there were all those meetings between high level Trump campaign officials and shady Russians that are still being investigated. Oh, and there's tons of evidence that the Russians have hacked into (literally) our electronic voting systems and that they continue to do so. There's good solid evidence they shared priceless voting record data with the Trump campaign. Again, hard to say if anything will come of this since the Republicans control so much of the government even before Trump won.
Remember, Trump was and is always a patsy. Nobody cares if he knew any of this because his only job was to show up to rallies and say bad things about Hillary and Mexicans. The question is how much did the folks who _really_ run the show know and do. What's clear is that what tattered remains of American democracy are left are being eroded.
But whatever, just keep ignoring the mounting evidence because the word 'hacked' sometimes gets used slightly inappropriately.
most computers are sold to OEMs and if an OEM pushes Linux Microsoft threatens to pull their OEM discounts. The CEO of Acer (Asus?) bitched about it publicly around the time netbooks took off.
On the plus side Linux _is_ competition. Microsoft was forced to drop prices substantially on a Windows license. On the downside this lead to them doing all sorts of nasty stuff to monetize Windows (subscription fees for business editions, installing demo software without permission, the Windows Store, etc, etc).
try that in America where we do Jury trials for a lot of these sorts of things and it'll blow up in your face. The rest of the world that might work though.
I already know I don't have it in me to take Intel to court, but I'm pretty peeved since I bought an i5-7500 right before this stuff was announced (and you can't return processors anywhere). It knocked about 5% off the performance and I would have waited until the next gen stuff was out this year or next (or bought a Ryzen) if I'd known.
Slashdot Mirror
even the human grade stuff is a problem if it's used wrong. Like I said, you'd be amazed at the kinds of chemicals girls'll use in the pursuit of nice hair.
there are multiple tiers of the license. How much you need depends on what chemicals you work with. If you're a dude (most of us /.ers are) you have no idea how crazy some of chemicals they work with are. The stuff women will do to get straight hair if they're born with curly or curly hair if they're born with straight is absurd. Come to think of it, every girl I've ever met wants the opposite type of hair they were born with...
I think the rise of licenses isn't just mean spirited folks wanting to raise wages. It's got more to do with computers making it easy to track folks and wide spread mass media leading to more people hearing stories of what happens when somebody without training does something dangerous. If it's one thing that 20 years in the workforce has taught me it's that companies do as little training as humanly possible.
there are other visa programs for getting the best and brightest. H1-B is specifically to fill worker shortages in order to improve the over all economy. The argument goes that workers will not be displaced and the increased economic activity will help them.
In practice what happens is that the rich and powerful stop funding schools and training programs (since they have a supply of cheap, already trained folks from overseas). If you've got kids this is a big part of why their college costs $150k from a public University. It also depresses wages.
The H1-B program needs to end. No amount of reform can save it. It's intended purpose was always a lie.
It'll just delay the disaster. The trouble is there aren't going to be enough jobs to go around for people who aren't math whizes. It's like when the manufacturing jobs went overseas and everybody was told to retain for biotech. We just don't need that many rank and file in that industry.
Mine all had the same mix of Basic programming books. Also, even if you did find a book you needed software. It wasn't until GCC and the like that compilers and assemblers were free. A good assembler would be $200-$300 bucks (adjusted for inflation). The books needed to make good use of it could be another $200 bucks easy. And that assumes you never get stuck _anywhere_ because if you did odds are there wasn't anyone there to help you out.
at least in the States. The H1-B program requires companies try to hire a local employee first. The rules say they can only have an H1-B if no qualified applicants are available. So everybody becomes a "Senior" developer and since there aren't enough people with the necessary credentials (there never are) they can always apply for an H1-B. This is also why companies don't pay to train anymore.
Of my investors. Ever read the history of the Commodore Amiga? Jack Tramiel basically backed the engineers into a corner that let him take everything until Commodore road in and saved the day. Tech investors have a long history of screwing over start up. So yeah, I'd care who the guy voted for. Maybe I'd still risk it. But I'd be aware of the risk...
If your dad was an engineer, good for you. Also good for you if you were some kind of Savant or if you had a well stocked library or the dude at the computer store wasn't just some pimply faced teen but knew stuff.
For the rest of us we kinda hit a wall on programming after the limited information we had was exhausted. It was '93 before I got my hands on copies of Computer! Gazette and learned that machine language was a thing. My teachers were all pretty useless too (and I went to a tech themed "magnet" school).
Nowadays I can open a browser, start typing in stuff like "How to make games", find Stackoverflow and away I go. Learning to program is way, way easier.
Now, getting a _job_ is way, way harder. H1-Bs + outsourcing means programming jobs are impossible to get without a 4 year degree (at least in the States).
and Democratic Socialist. I had several family members screwed over by the US Healthcare system, which opened my eyes. Finding out that Wallet Biopsies were a thing (I experienced one before hearing the Sopranos name it) was a frightening ordeal. College History courses helped too. Finding out that slavery was basically a caste system used to keep poor white southerners in their place (slaves were a poor deal, cheap immigrant labor was much, much more profitable) and getting the internet and finding out that through out history bigotry, racism and caste systems have been used over and over again by the 1% to divide and conqueror the working class cinched it.
The Trump/Russia/NRA isn't made up. It's been pretty well researched. I suppose the point could be made that Trump didn't know about it, but that's part of the whole scam. Trump isn't really a leader, he's a demagogue. So he never has to actually know anything about the corruption that supports him. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't be taken down by it. Trump isn't just a man anymore, he's an administration. He's the executor of the US Government. As a leader he's responsible for what his people do. Especially when it's so obvious he's turning a blind eye.
it's an application of tech. VC firms don't do a whole hell of a lot of actual tech. Return on investment is too slow. A few megacorps still spend a bit on R&D, mostly for the tax write offs. The majority of actual new tech comes out of the University system.
You're nuts. First thing I did was make sure my kid _didn't_ go into engineering. Then again I'm in the States, and virtually all our manufacturing base is gone. The H1-B visa program doesn't help matters either. Without that base there's damn few jobs. If you're really, really good you can get something, but if you just competent you're boned. At my company we've got several engineers... in the accounting department. They know enough math and besides they've got college degrees so we hired them.
My kid went into medical and I made sure she did. I did that because Doctors have a Union (the AMA) that looks out for their members.
especially when you've got people in a position of power. What touched all this off was decades of sexual harassment coming to light. In particular the kind that gets dismissed with 'well it's all in good fun' or 'it's just hugs'. It's come out that a lot of the kinds of things we thought ended in the 60s and 70s where still widespread.
I don't think it's unreasonable to want to write down what that line is either. If you don't then everybody says it's arbitrary when the community comes down on someone unless what that person did is so egregious that either a lawsuit or police might be involved. FreeBSD, like any decent sized org, would like very much to keep it from every getting to that.
on political correctness.
they say he disseminated it out to a wider audience knowing it would stir up trouble. Also knowing that it would likely be leaked outside the company. Basically, he was shitposting on a sensitive topic.
Now, you can argue he didn't intend to do that (in fact that's exactly what you're doing) but that wouldn't be the conclusion of the labor board. The labor board disagrees with you.
For my money I don't have enough information. I'd want to know what happened with the document after he wrote it. Who did he share it with. Who actually leaked it (if that's known). Did management talk to him about it and ask him to stop disseminating it because it was having a negative impact on the work environment? Did they follow their own internal procedures in that regard? Did they have procedures for shutting down these kinds of discussions when they cease to benefit the work environment? Just because Google started a conversation doesn't mean they can't stop and say "Hey everyone, sorry, we shouldn't have started this conversation, OK? So let's just stop and go back to work".
I want political views protected. But I also agree that the workplace isn't where politics should be debated. Yes, it was kind of bone headed for Google to start that conversation (especially in a male dominated workplace where it's likely to be a sensitive topic). But mistakes can be made and then corrected in a way beneficial to everyone.
I don't have nearly enough context to say if the board's decision was right or not. I'm guessing this will go to court as a wrongful termination lawsuit. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
which is one of the scariest things to come out of this century. There's been a general eroding of scientific thinking that started with Climate Change deniers and anti-vaxers and seems to be spreading. Somewhere along the line people started acting like all ideas are equally valid. Science itself is partly to blame, because it never likes to use words that make things sound certain even when it is. Richard Dawkins has lengthy writings and videos on the subject.
protecting political speech. I was really expecting this to fall under those laws. I don't know a lot about them though. They might still get invoked in a lawsuit though.
I don't agree with this guy, but it make me nervous to think he was fired for political views. Still, the labor board's ruling is public and revealed a lot about Google's thought process and reasoning behind the firing. It doesn't seem to have been a knee jerk reaction but was done in response to the furor and uproar the memo caused combined with him sending the memo around intentionally. The ruling implies he was stirring up trouble and knew it. But that's hard to say. I suspect their be a lawsuit. If Google settles we'll never really know, but if it goes to court I suppose we'll find out.
I will say this, I've heard tales of companies trying to do shady firing practices in the past. The stories go that as the employees in question were being walked out HR got wind of it and literally ran out and begged them to take their jobs back. And this is not in a State known for strong labor laws like CA. HR reps take unlawful firings very, very seriously. I think Google dotted those i's and crossed the t's here. Meaning if the lawsuit does happen it's going to be very interesting.
I've read multiple places that the studies he cited have been discredited, sometimes by the study authors themselves. Still not sure I agree with the firing, but judging by the ruling's contents it wasn't just a knee jerk reaction. AmiMoJo already covered the details further up this thread, but it's not fair to say this is just folks ignoring facts.
Every leftist I know is saying we _SHOULD_ politicize this tragedy. One of the common memes on the left it that it's always "too soon" to talk about gun control and if it's too soon to talk about it after this mass shooting how about use the last one?
Also, I don't know _anyone_ on the left who wants to ban all guns. Even the really left wing nutters I know gave up on that. And not just for politics, but because with 300 million guns in America it's virtually impossible. Remember, we don't want to lock folks up for no good reason. We support legalizing drugs for fucks sake. Hell, a lot of us support legalizing _all_ drugs like parts of the Neatherlands did (albeit also with nationalized healthcare that treats drug addiction as a serious illness). The last thing we want is to ban guns and start locking folks up for owning one. We want _less_ people in prison, not more.
the 'well regulated' part. _Nothing_ in the Constitution is there by accident. The Constitution _does_ allow arms to be regulated.
Any violence is _not_ the only option. That kind of thinking is exactly what makes a single issue voter. There's zero room for compromise or even common sense in that kind of thinking. _Anyone_ who opposes unlimited access to firearms is an enemy who's one step away from killing us all.
Among the pro-gun lobby it's impossible to imagine a control advocate who doesn't immediately resort to violence. I can think of several reasons why the pro-gun lobby is like this (none of them good) but I can't think of anything that can be done about it. I'd rather see the left drop the issue and, like that comic says, live with the occasional horrific civilian massacre.
or if nothing else to raise our voices and try to drown the shills out. Slashdot is a site full of older engineers and tech people (it's a site from the 90s after all). It's bound to be a prime target since older, well-to-do STEM professionals are going to prone to the right wing (since the right wing's co-opted conservatism and, well, like my history teacher used to say when you've got something to lose you get real conservative real fast). Our little community needs more voices of sanity to keep us away from the excesses of conservatism.
Nobody ever said the American people were unfit to vote. What we _did_ say is that they, like everybody, are capable of being lied to about the sources of information. Kinda like when a Cigarette company backs a study on the health benefits of tobacco. Or when Coke did the same thing. You'd want to know who backed that study. Lying by omission is a thing. A democracy lives and breaths by the quality of information available.
And no, there's still plenty of talk about the Russians hacking the election. They got caught funneling money through the NRA to Trump's campagin, and the only question is are we doing to do anything about it. Then there were all those meetings between high level Trump campaign officials and shady Russians that are still being investigated. Oh, and there's tons of evidence that the Russians have hacked into (literally) our electronic voting systems and that they continue to do so. There's good solid evidence they shared priceless voting record data with the Trump campaign. Again, hard to say if anything will come of this since the Republicans control so much of the government even before Trump won.
Remember, Trump was and is always a patsy. Nobody cares if he knew any of this because his only job was to show up to rallies and say bad things about Hillary and Mexicans. The question is how much did the folks who _really_ run the show know and do. What's clear is that what tattered remains of American democracy are left are being eroded.
But whatever, just keep ignoring the mounting evidence because the word 'hacked' sometimes gets used slightly inappropriately.
most computers are sold to OEMs and if an OEM pushes Linux Microsoft threatens to pull their OEM discounts. The CEO of Acer (Asus?) bitched about it publicly around the time netbooks took off.
On the plus side Linux _is_ competition. Microsoft was forced to drop prices substantially on a Windows license. On the downside this lead to them doing all sorts of nasty stuff to monetize Windows (subscription fees for business editions, installing demo software without permission, the Windows Store, etc, etc).
try that in America where we do Jury trials for a lot of these sorts of things and it'll blow up in your face. The rest of the world that might work though.
I already know I don't have it in me to take Intel to court, but I'm pretty peeved since I bought an i5-7500 right before this stuff was announced (and you can't return processors anywhere). It knocked about 5% off the performance and I would have waited until the next gen stuff was out this year or next (or bought a Ryzen) if I'd known.
I'm pretty sure they do. Maybe some of the big guys (like Trump) have custom contracts.