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FreeBSD's New Code of Conduct (freebsd.org)
FreeBSD has a new code of conduct, which is making several people angry. From the blog post: This code of conduct applies to all spaces used by the FreeBSD Project, including our mailing lists, IRC channels, and social media, both online and off. Anyone who is found to violate this code of conduct may be sanctioned or expelled from FreeBSD Project controlled spaces at the discretion of the FreeBSD Code of Conduct Committee. Participants are responsible for knowing and abiding by these rules. Harassment includes but is not limited to: Comments that reinforce systemic oppression related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, neurodiversity, physical appearance, body size, age, race, or religion. Unwelcome comments regarding a person's lifestyle choices and practices, including those related to food, health, parenting, drugs, and employment. Deliberate misgendering. Deliberate use of "dead" or rejected names. Gratuitous or off-topic sexual images or behaviour in spaces where they're not appropriate.
Physical contact and simulated physical contact (e.g., textual descriptions like "hug" or "backrub") without consent or after a request to stop. Threats of violence. Incitement of violence towards any individual, including encouraging a person to commit suicide or to engage in self-harm. Deliberate intimidation. Stalking or following. Harassing photography or recording, including logging online activity for harassment purposes. Sustained disruption of discussion. Unwelcome sexual attention. Pattern of inappropriate social contact, such as requesting/assuming inappropriate levels of intimacy with others. Continued one-on-one communication after requests to cease. Deliberate "outing" of any private aspect of a person's identity without their consent except as necessary to protect vulnerable people from intentional abuse. Publication of non-harassing private communication without consent. Publication of non-harassing private communication with consent but in a way that intentionally misrepresents the communication (e.g., removes context that changes the meaning). Knowingly making harmful false claims about a person.
Physical contact and simulated physical contact (e.g., textual descriptions like "hug" or "backrub") without consent or after a request to stop. Threats of violence. Incitement of violence towards any individual, including encouraging a person to commit suicide or to engage in self-harm. Deliberate intimidation. Stalking or following. Harassing photography or recording, including logging online activity for harassment purposes. Sustained disruption of discussion. Unwelcome sexual attention. Pattern of inappropriate social contact, such as requesting/assuming inappropriate levels of intimacy with others. Continued one-on-one communication after requests to cease. Deliberate "outing" of any private aspect of a person's identity without their consent except as necessary to protect vulnerable people from intentional abuse. Publication of non-harassing private communication without consent. Publication of non-harassing private communication with consent but in a way that intentionally misrepresents the communication (e.g., removes context that changes the meaning). Knowingly making harmful false claims about a person.
Actually I've lost count of the number of rounds. But Damore won the last round on this board, hands down. Anybody who posted on the side of Google got buried under an avalanche.
... but if I did, I would quit. This is over the top. It feels more like a blanket list of vague infractions to have on hand so that they can rid of anyone they feel like.
Someone at FreeBSD needs a hug.
On the Linux mailing list, "deliberate intimidation" is graded like a gymnastic routine, 1-10 points. Linus has the most points so far.
I kind of want to see what happens if FreeBSD forks into Conservative and Liberal branches. I want to see which side attracts more developers, and which distribution gets more downloads!
This Code of Conduct is based on the example policy from the Geek Feminism wiki.
I am all for equal rights, but feminism is something else entirely.
Did they need a code of conduct to be spelled out for them in the first place? This is a distraction, nothing more. Move along now, there is work to be done. Don't get into a fit if you aren't affected. Projects need members and volunteers, who would like the focus to be on the code i.e. their work. If you or someone you know need something else, there are places for that. But not while this worker is in the zone.
Today's captcha: grownup, as in, act like one.
Can you really not ignore a virtual *hug*? On the other hand, who thinks it's appropriate to *hug* people virtually in a non-personal context? Do you really need to tell people not to give a virtual *backrub* to someone they don't know personally? WTF is wrong with people?
Free software is all about community. I don't see anything in that list that I would *want* in my community. What's so controversial about having a policy that says you need to not be jerks to each other? This is behavior that would not be tolerated in a workplace or just about anywhere else.
Most sites just condense this down to-
1) Don't be a jerk.
"Be excellent to each other and PARTY ON!"
Seriously, what's in there to get angry about?
Some times ago one asked are bsd dying ?
https://bsd.slashdot.org/story/18/01/26/1636229/are-the-bsds-dying-some-security-researchers-think-so
now the answer is clear : yes they are.
As all projects engaged in diversity promotion or devoted more time to write code of conduct rather than focusing on thei main goal
What in the hell is a "dead name"?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
What in the hell is a "dead name"?
With all due respect, turn in your geek card.
There's this book, the canonical list, whose title literally translates to "The Book of Dead Names", and every geek and nerd I've ever met has heard of it. Many own a copy.
I thought everybody knew that.
Ia f'tagn!
Many people said they switched to FreeBSD to escape SystemD. I wonder where they will go now that FreeBSD has decided to have this.
BSD is DEAD
Deliberate "outing" of any private aspect of a person's identity without their consent except as necessary to protect vulnerable people from intentional abuse.
So, some people are more equal than others?
How quaint.
They're stating up front that these rules aren't going to be applied equally to everyone.
And not one person is surprised.
Leftist "Intersectional" race/sex theories are just race-baiting, victim-mongering competitions for who can claim to be the victimized the most by the 'white patriarchy".
Which one gets banned? The guy calling himself a girl, or everyone who still calls him a guy?
Another exhausting but non exhaustive list of banned behaviours.
I don't disagree with any of it, I don't think, I couldn't make it to the end. But what I don't understand is why they can't keep things simple:
"All spaces used by the FreeBSD Project, including our mailing lists, IRC channels, and social media, both online and off, are dedicated to making the best operating system, built by a strong community.
As such any comments in those spaces that are not relevant to the project specifically, or programming in general, are unwanted. Keep it on topic, keep it to the point.
Repeated or egregious violations, as judged by the admins, will result in a ban."
End of.
I think I just threw up a little
Since this bans "physical contact", it means that it also applies to people meeting in meatspace.
Does that mean the women can't wear makeup?
FreeBSD community has always been very conservative, with a tux 'n tie ambiance given to most of the controlled spaces.
Recently, there has been a very large influx of new members, especially in the non-developer community space, and an uptick in controversial subject matter. I must admit it's become a little bit of a distraction from the regular work, so this may be a prelude to putting some teeth into the CoC for redirecting the focus.
I don't think it's targeted to the developers. Normally, there'd have been some major incident to provoke this response, and I've not heard about anything like that.
Write code of conduct documents and talk about "community" a lot.
I remember when most software projects were organized around the work, and you could garner respect as a direct function of the quality of your technical contributions. Now it seems there are two groups of people in a big project: the ones who do the actual work, and the hangers-on who don't write any code but spend all their time conducting Stalinist purges on the mailing lists and writing long lists of rules for everyone else to follow.
Funny story, it turns out you don't actually need that second group at all. But you definitely need the first group, which is something these projects may slowly discover after they've gotten rid of anyone who doesn't fit into some insane political straitjacket. Making your project as inoffensive and politically correct as possible in order to lower the barrier of entry for some hypothetical contributor who will do more than one or two drive-by Github PRs is a false economy.
I was quite astonished by it.... I didn't even realize that it was any kind of issue, but all existing employees were expected to read and sign it, and any new hirees will also have to read and sign it before they can start work as well.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
..will not stop even if someone says stop.
They really need to get rid of the "finger" command too.
Do faggots have word filters?
Nah just for the n word.
If your thinking of a book your wrong.
In FreeBSD's CoC context a "dead name" is the name a person had before they transitioned to another gender. Deadnaming seems to trigger the shit out of them.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com...
https://splinternews.com/what-...
The people who need to be booted from the FreeBSD community are the low-life political types who wrote this policy. Clearly they are TLA plants who want to destroy BSD and make everyone use MSWIN.
> I didn't even realize that it was any kind of issue
Let me guess: you are a straight white male.
> Comments that reinforce systemic oppression related to gender, gender identity and expression,
So now saying that cutting off your dick doesn't make you a woman gets you banned from FreeBSD.
Welcome thought police.
It reads more like typical leftist liberal reasoning; an efficient tool to exclude and shut people down on the vaguest of merits, with complete disregard to a future victim's intentions behind what they said or did. Really, it's not very far from a fascist manifesto in disguise.
FreeBSD obviously feels that this code of conduct, together with the associated concepts of diversity, inclusion and acceptance, will promote the quality, usefulness and innovation of their software.
Let's take the opportunity to run an experiment. In five years, will FreeBSD be strong, admired and above all, be downloaded and used, compared to its less enlightened peers? Which paradigm will prevail?
I propose that we revisit this topic yearly, to assess.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
The office hot tub has to go; the conference room will be used for meetings and phone conferences. Starting yesterday.
I'd like to point out that right-wingers generally run nothing. They're always getting their panties in bunches (ie: this thread), because they never run anything, and have to submit to other peoples' rules. Why do none of these brilliant, forever-offended right-wingers ever create things? They very rarely run companies, or software projects, or anything else. All they do is whine, threaten to break off and do their own right-wing version of things, but never do.
I don't respond to AC's.
codes of conduct are known for being extremely toxic. if you're someone reading this who doesn't understand that, look at the keywords: is there *anything* positive in them? just look at the word type, and substitute "positive" or "negative" instead of the actual word. then count the two types up, and ask yourself the question, "what kind of person do you think this would attract?"
it would attract two types of people wouldn't it: one that is absolutely terrified of making mistakes - of being the kind of person that the document ACCUSES people of being. and the other type would be precisely the kinds of people MOST LIKELY to ignore such proscriptions and do them anyway.
so what, *exactly*, do you think these kinds of documents achieve? they describe - and attract - the very things that people fear will happen, and at the very best poison (toxify) the working environment for absolutely everyone involved with the project.
a much better approach would be to use something like the bill of ethics (titanians.org). it's effectively a "forth normalised form" document, that "unpacks on demand". it defines what an "ethical act" is, and encourages and invites its upholders to act ethically. that *requires* that the participants think through incidents very carefully but WITHOUT having incredibly dangerous "toxic proscriptive lists"... which are never complete anyway.
This code of conduct applies to all spaces
And what about tabs, f*cking pieces of steaming sh*t? How can you dare to ignore my blank space and indentation identity? What are you, animals? LOL.
Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
Do people really need to be told not to harass and stalk people? I don't disagree with any of those policies, but the fact that these things had to be explicitly codified into rules of conduct tells us there must be a rather toxic culture in that community. Then again I vaguely remember an acrimonious split between the OpenBSD guy and the rest of the FreeBSD community long ago, so it seems these guys have always been terrible.
...given Social Justice Warrior a bad name. True SJWs stand with everyone's freedom of expression, like the ACLU defended the KKK and Nazi's.
My first freebsd was 4.0. Used to run a shop on 4.*. Still have a freebsd 8 box here, but already held off on upgrading with 9, hoping 10 would be less of a drag. It wasn't. The thing does what I need it to do (let me write text files and emails, some light compilation), but its replacement won't be running freebsd. As to the community, used to hang out in comp.unix.bsd.freebsd and such, submitted a few minor ports patches over time, was active in freenode irc for a bit. Nothing major. I was aware of at least some of the shit going on.
For me, this code of conduct doesn't surprise me. They've shown themselves to be self-absorbed idiots technically, in handling various incompatible changes, in handling critique, and in their handling of that "freebsdgirl" headcase, where a code of conduct already popped up. And, of course, the freenode irc channel was (and probably still is) run by just about the most offensively bad op I've ever seen. The guy that runs (ran?) the forums similarly had a few quirks, let's say.
So I pretty much wrote the entire thing off a few years ago. It's sad, but not unexpected. Actually it's quite amazing just how slow motion a train crash can be.
on political correctness.
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It is literally impossible to adhere to these restrictions, and most of the people violating them would do so purely by accident. I love the weird logic of neurodiversity too, this is basically pretending people with mental disabilities are A OK, or something. How do you know what anyone's preferred pronoun is before you ask them? Most people just ask for names, and infer pronouns - especially online. See, if you want to promote a good message you put out something along the lines that we should cherish our differences, you don't start the Third Reich. We can only pray that FreeBSD forks, and the retards that came up with this nonsense get what they asked for, namely, an exodus.
Nothing spells fascism better than a boatload of regulations about how constrained you should be around others... and most importantly what you are allowed to say or not(Hugs ffs?)
I love how those old school stereotypes about religions, nationalities and what not, used to be a thing to joke about, but now you can get shot if you do this.
Fuck this shit.
I have been making bad and good jokes here about public faces, but last month I did a pro trump - antihilary joke and I got a message that I have 2 foes. half a decade using the account, I didn't even know that there was such thing.
Society is rotting and it's taking the net with it.
What they're basically saying, don't be an asshole, don't be mean. Oh really? Like I don't know it's mean to be a racist or sexist, and I need to have it explained to me in a list of rules. It's a good thing they're explaining to me I can't post porn to the FreeBSD mailing list, because I had no idea it was not done and I was just about to. I'm really just a little kid.
You're going for irony there, aren't you?
I've also worked at places in the past where I sincerely wish this sort of thing had been applied.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I'm just curious what prompted this change. I RTFA but doesn't state the reason this has only recently been put in place after years of not existing. Does anyone know?
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
It's too bad that we can't roll back time about 30 years when the internet was invented by progressive, free thinking individuals and the extreme right considered it the demon's spawn. Why can't all you Dumpsters go back to the stone age sticking to all of your traditional values, lack of progress/technology, beating/abuse of each other to instill discipline, and get off of Slashdot. Go shout at the sun or something.
Codes of conduct are like other rules or laws that govern interpersonal behavior:
There mere existence is a sign of past failure - usually a failure in communications but not always.
I'm too ignorant to speak about FreeBSD, but I can see situations where "all else has failed" and I would actually be spearheading the effort to impose such rules as the "last, best" alternative to an organization dissolving or becoming irrelevant. On the other hand - again, I'm not speaking about FreeBSD - "blowing it up and starting over" may be better than trying to "rescue" an organization by imposing new internal rules of behavior.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I visited Amsterdam once in the early nineties, and there was a bridge with graffiti on it with the text "de koningin is een boer", translated "the queen is a farmer". Someone local explained that if you change one letter, it read "de koningin is een hoer", i.e. "the queen is a whore", and everyone read it like that. Apparently it was illegal to offend the queen like that. People find a way. I wish FreeBSD success and wisdom in their quest to eradicate assholes with a list of rules.
I think this must be the triumph of one freebsdgirl, also known as Randi Harper, who is a bad person in all ways.
Good
especially when you've got people in a position of power. What touched all this off was decades of sexual harassment coming to light. In particular the kind that gets dismissed with 'well it's all in good fun' or 'it's just hugs'. It's come out that a lot of the kinds of things we thought ended in the 60s and 70s where still widespread.
I don't think it's unreasonable to want to write down what that line is either. If you don't then everybody says it's arbitrary when the community comes down on someone unless what that person did is so egregious that either a lawsuit or police might be involved. FreeBSD, like any decent sized org, would like very much to keep it from every getting to that.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
That's really the worst part. What it means is "since white males are not considered systemically oppressed, the harassment rule doesn't apply to them and you can harass them as much as you want".
if I make a bad joke on Twitter directed at or near anyone that might use FreeBSD, I'm potentially off the voluntary project? Nice. Who determines what makes a bad joke? What if I simply take offense at everything you say on Twitter? Can I get you kicked off?
This is nanny state level BS. Oh, and stalking is now saying "hi" on-line more than once. Sexual harassment is typing "*hugs*" Nice.
Could the committee use this to invade my Facebook or Twitter feed and censure me because of my involvement in FreeBSD? Behave everywhere by our rules or else! Baaaah humbug.
Perhaps I'm just a paranoid, conservative, white, male ass-hole, but I think things are going from bad to worse. I want off this politically correct ride. Had enough at the University of California... but now I feel trapped everywhere. Maybe I need a safe place.
including those related to food, health, parenting
Look I'm sick of all these vegans and their gluten-free children. I don't want to put up with their whiny shit when I'm packing up software for the real men and women that eat steaks and do things other than fucking talking about their special diets.
...which one of the things it bans do you think should be allowed?
Reading through it, it seems pretty reasonable. If I were leading a team, I would not want someone on that team who would treat other team members in any of the ways this policy bans. Seems like it could be summed up as "Don't be a creep or an asshole."
So why not ban from its "spaces" everything that isn't specifically about FreeBSD and all the technical stuff that goes with it? If you want to know what is "inappropriate" in a discussion about FreeBSD, it would be anything that isn't about FreeBSD. Is that so difficult.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Any large community has a few people who don't understand boundaries and expected behavior unless they are explicitly defined in writing. You might call them autistic, maybe they're not that and are just assholes, who knows. You'll find some kind of rules in every large club or organization that has been around long enough.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Amazingly, those are the only ones that seem to actually do any work.
But maybe that's just because the loudmouth mob of straight white male-hating non-straight white males are giving everybody else such a bad name.
Anyway, that sort of bs would be enough for me to bugger off to greener pa$ture$. No need to wait for the constructive dismissal you just know is coming your way. Do your part in bringing down idiocy and brush up the old CV. And yeah, even google can be brought down that way. They have already lost their ability to innovate.
So if I ask if I look fat I could be banned for body shaming myself
There is a spangle line on making false and harmful statements.
Obviously this system is open to massive abuse and fraudulent accusations. There doesn’t seem to be a clear evidentiary standard, they don’t define what level of proof is required (balance of probabilities, etc) will interview additional people on a whim (so the accused can be banned without being informed, according to this code of conduct) and the appeals process seems pretty thin to me.
This is a code of conduct for bullies. And, of course, it springs from the eternal cry bully feminist movement who harvest power from victimology.
FUck BSD. Never touching your crap again.
Why does everyone in the tech world go full retard?
I've also worked at places in the past where I sincerely wish this sort of thing had been applied.
It's surprisingly necessary with a multitude of interactions, some people simply can't learn when they're harassing you.
Instead, they come up with feigned offense, shoddy arguments, and disingenuous claims of their own victimhood just because you exposed their failings.
I've had people make spurious remarks about me being on drugs, mentally disturbed, or otherwise malignant when they couldn't even get past their own mistaken reasoning and narcissistic rage, then blithely declare they weren't doing anything wrong, indignant that anybody even took issue with them.
It's not hard to see people take affront when you point out how they've disgraced themselves.
"FreeBSD falling behind in 2018. Supporters are leaving. Is it because racists are threatened?"
Nothing gets you a bunch of free volunteer labor like a big ol' legal form that lists all the ways you could punish them!
and faggot enablers.
*Whispers*: Virtually...mmmmm ;)
Oh crap...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Damore won, period. He spoke sensibly and plainly, was subsequently and publicly vindicated in the very action of his firing, and now is a martyr for the anti-PC cause and will never have trouble making an income again. He can hit the conference circuit, join a think tank, become a visiting professor at conservative and libertarian colleges, etc. and get paid large honorarium. He's set.
This is effectively a tortious interference of contract. If I were on the BSD team, I would be subject to monitoring of my personal stuff outside of the scope of their project, which means I could not speak freely on sites which guarantee me the ability to speak freely.
Fuck no. The BSD team needs to have their asses sued, beaten, and bloodied until they understand that you don't fucking tell people how to live their lives outside of 'work.'
And you can GUARANTEE that the FREEBSD team is too fucking cowardly to come right here and defend their obviously illegal bullshit.
I propose that all stories about FreeBSD be banned from Slashdot. Let's police their ass right the fuck back.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
So make a fork to âoeReally FreeBSDâ.
strategy for winning - or at least not losing - slashdot arguments.
Slashdot arguments are like the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded.
You know you want to suck all the penises.
Sure, this code of conduct is a bit ham-handed and written from a radical perspective that is at odds with the relatively conservative past of the project, but if we ignore the language of the conduct and focus instead on its meaning, it basically boils down to not being a dick. I think most people are likely upset because the language screams SJW, but this does not make the code wrong.
This is a sign of the times. The newer generation coming into these projects was raised with these values. Us "old timers" -- and by that I mean us who are over thirty -- were part of a different generation of OSS and Internet culture. This new culture may seem alien to us, but it's not that bad. Focus on building things and maybe try to be a bit more sensitive when critiquing others, and you'll be just fine.
I don't think this is the death knell for FreeBSD. Inclusiveness is a good thing. I'm glad they are trying to engage millennials. If enforcing a Code of Conduct that, despite the virtue signaling language, really boils down to "don't be a dick to people" ensures that this project can attract young people, then I'm glad to see it ratified.
Change can be good, but we have to be open minded to that change.
Do you think insistently referring to Muhammad Ali as "Cassius Clay" is appropriate, apart from discussion of the late boxer's childhood?
Does that count as unwanted sexual behavior? Yes? Ok, then go fuck yourselves.
... implies acceptance of blurting, including blurting out many kinds of "abuse" they wish to disallow. A better code of conduct would be much simpler: "don't be an asshole, learn to apologize, and grow a thicker skin".
1) Summary indicates there are people who are annoyed. No actual links to annoyance.
2) Summary indicates it's quoting a blog post. No blog post linked, just the rules page.
3) The rules page has been around since 2015: https://archive.fo/https://www... - not that "new code of conduct" means that the writer intended to convey it was brand new, but certainly it will be interpreted that way by a lot of folks.
4) FreeBSD had some sort of discussion around it when it came to be in 2015: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.... and it looks like there was some actual internal stuff for project participants that occurred but again, nothing really happened
5) This type of code of conduct isn't really crazy in the OSS world by a simple search. For example, https://www.contributor-covena... shows a plethora of OSS projects that participate and is based on similar principles. Big names OSS participants include Eclipse, Spring, Atom,
6) Microsoft has code of conduct that touches on similar issues: https://opensource.microsoft.c...
7) Github has a guide actively encouraging codes of conduct within communities: https://opensource.guide/code-... and pointing to other OSS projects that have them: https://www.djangoproject.com/...
If you look at FreeBSD's code of conduct in context it really seems like they're late to the party, which may just be a formality (the community norms might already be enforcing these types of rules anyway) or a dramatic change, but there's no way to actually get that from the summary at all.
This whole topic is just... it's a fucking mess.
I'd hug you all via text, but it'd be a hate crime.
I've been on FreeBSD for years specifically because I trusted them to go full-autism and just ignore the political nonsense. Now it's here too...Are there any non-politically-correct and secure operating systems left?
The fact that FreeBSD needs this is why I stay with Windows.
I can see it already. The next place this will be popping up is in Terms Of Service. If you use our products, you agree to abide by our code of social conduct, including but not limited to: not offending any group we deem worthy of protection, questioning climate change theory, or voting Republican.
It is too bad that this has happened. This will be the end of FreeBSD. I guess it was a pretty good run.
http://todogroup.org/opencodeofconduct/
This cancerous shit-smoking beast is adopted by projects that want to die. It's the product of known trans rabble-rouser Coraline Ada Ehmke. If you want to see how this kind of crap plays out, see the Opalgate controversy "issue thread" and the subsequent "Create a Code of Conduct" thread where Coraline tries to put in place this thing that lets Coraline oust people who disagree with her. The various SJW comments in those threads are extremely enlightening as they illustrate very well how laying down subjective "rules" like this opens a project to subjective interpretation based on the feels of any given person that wants to bully others USING THOSE RULES AS THE HAMMER TO BEAT OTHERS DOWN.
Oh, you want more than one single thread? How about this: Drupal ousts Larry Garfield for his sex life. Adria Richards and "Donglegate" and how she got a father of four fired for something that she both interpreted incorrectly and was guilty of doing publicly at the same event herself. Rust is full of SJW/PC nonsense. You can find these examples all over the place. Adopting these codes of conduct is like drawing a mustache on your project's upper lip with feces.
Fuck that.
This is irrespective of the respect that you give the PERSON.
Fuck these control games.
CAPTCHA: contempt
About time behave or get kicked out.
Hope everyone follows suit.
My favorite part of the code of conduct was this statement: "The committee will meet as quickly as possible to review the incident and determine.."
My only thought was: "How do I get to join the committee!" Getting to be a Committee member sounds awesome
Commitee Member: "We are here to "question" the Accused and get to the bottom of all this. There is no lead we will not follow, no evidence we will leave unexamined. The Committee is now order."
Accused: "Okay fine, what do you want to know."
Committee Member: "On Monday August 12th, did you in fact buy coffee at the local Starbucks?"
Accused: "Well, it's December and I don't remember if I bought coffee in August."
Committee Member: "Let the record state that the accused is being 'uncooperative'. "
Accused: "Hay, I thought I was being charged with leaving a simi-colon (;) off of line 322,235 in 'whocasres/important.c' on July 7th? What is this Committee meeting for?"
Committee Member: "As the committee has stated.. (gives the Accused a sarcastic look).. to get to the bottom of all this. And (glancing at the other Committee members) WE WILL get to the bottom all this."
Refers to a part of the MALE anatomy. BSD prohibits such references to male exclusivity.
However , don't be an asshole is ok, as everyone has one.
It's far more likely that they're assigning the label of "harassment" where there isn't actually harassment, only extremely thin skin. Toughen up, buttercup.
I guess someone at FreeBSD really wants OpenBSD to become the standard?
Happy thoughts and joyous afternoon!
Are the guys insane, have they ingested too much plastic, are their hormones totally imbalanced, do they snort e-pills? Is this the real life?
The future looks worse than zombie apocalypse. We get shiny happy pieces of shit and their safe spaces.
I'm offended by the term dead name. If I change my name from Suzanne to Latifa , both American , female names, for whatever reason, is Suzanne my dead name ? Or does dead names only apply if I change my name from Suzanne to Harry ? This over specifies 'referring to the name that the person prefers, ' and as such prejudices against likely the majority of folks who grew up as Suzie but now would rather Suzanne. Especially as you could make the argument that Suzie is diminutive where as Suzanne is more mature and formal.
At least we can now truthfully say BSD is dying. With this hypocritical white knight bullshit in place, nobody is going to want to stick around.
This is the continuation of this effort. They've destroyed the atheist movement, largely destroyed many 'level-headed' green, anti-capitalist and other liberal movements, all feminist and most if not all sex-positive communities, working hard on the movie and comic book communities and now we see inroads in tech, FreeBSD communities will soon be a wasteland of self-righteous bullshit.
We're creating a generation of fascists with these kind of actions. Mark my words, when you can't see that hating white men is the same as hating male Jews, or female blacks, you are creating a power vacuum for people like Hitler on either side of the spectrum.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
n/t
I'm really glad they did this. Reading the other comments it's super obvious that a lot of programmers have absolutely no idea of what others consider the required civility and etiquette for online discourse. Giving such a specific list, at the very least, makes it clear to those people that they are acting way outside of community standards. For the majority of this list if anybody was doing that then they are toxic and trash people that were probably dragging your community down anyway. Bravo on giving a procedure and definition to follow so that they can shape up or get shipped out.
As an aside to everybody that's mad about this Code of Conduct, are you really this terrible to people in your developer communities?
"[We'll be] really getting inside your head and making it an unpleasant place to be" -- Trent Reznor
Since they keep having all these upsets in their community, it's a wonder they can concentrate on developing an OS at all.. chances are they're just splitting up their community. Which would not be an unreasonable response if this sort of thing can keep happening.
It's what is missing that is more puzzling. They don't mention anything about people with Criminal Records.
Do you want criminals to be writing an operating system ? I would assume that would be the first exclusion.
FreeBSD deleted the fortune program, I then knew that the system was really in decline at that point and has become self obsessed and moribund. Its like any other institution that becomes infected with the disease known as Liberalism, rather than being bold and innovative, creating new things, all it does is loath, become overly self critical loading itself down with endless rules and regulations, attacking and penalizing the more productive elements of society, while producing nothing of real value. It is an example of O Sullivans law.
Question is, for a BSD site why would any of this become a topic for discussion? This also appears to be a lot like censorship and trying to create some sort of benign forum. If you have so much problem with these users that you have to take this sort of step. It doesn't say much for those participating in the forums. I do agree some on the BSD and Linux forums are A holes and don't do much to contribute. But I generally ignore them and leave it at that.
With those totalitarian rules there is no sense in carrying the word "Free" in the name anymore.
Don't be an asshole or you'll be asked to leave.
Their channel on freenode atm:
> 21:10.2 -!- #freebsd Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with
services
It must be odd/hard to go through life being different. Being treated differently than we want is just one unfortunate aspect.
Where I live, there arn't many people who don't follow the normal gender identities, though I do bump into 1 every few years and try to be kind with my words. Sometimes I get it wrong, when a woman chooses to dress like a man, with male features and male hairstyle, but still expects to be treated like a woman. She corrected me, but I wouldn't assume that the next male-looking-female wants that treatment. I'll try to be polite, regardless, but I might get it wrong sometimes.
Oh well, but we don't need a law and neither does the FreeBSD project.
The problem is you have one entity deciding what is a violation and what is not. Even if most agree it is not, all it would take is the entity to decide its bad. This is not appropriate and should someone be banned because they deem something bad? When you self proclaim yourself the entity that decides what is right or wrong. You basically claim yourself a censor which is nothing more then a all encompassing dictator. Hardly something I would think a site such a "free BSD" would embrace. Talk about people who apparently can't let things just slide.
Quote, the CoC: "Diversity is a huge strength and is critical to the long term success of the Project."
Hopefully the absurdity of this assertion becomes immediately obvious once I simply add [citation needed].
A now, what do you say BSD people? - you finally got your own CoductD!
I can only assume this is something she's responsible for? She's done a great job fucking up Twitter with that block list of hers, very very arbitrary rules to get on it. Once you're in, the damn thing propagates to others, assuming the contents of the list is gospel.
I've never ever tweeted at her, nor used any bad hash tags, yet here I am on, on that list and now spread to others.
BSD is so screwed Bowing down to these types.
FreeBSD has been my server OS of choice dating back 20 years, ever since the 3.x branch. I've come to accept that the project never has been and never will be "good with change" because every time without exception it's handled in a very poor way when they attempt changes in either their code or direction, or with the project itself.
The 9-10 transition, the new packaging system, and pretty much every change made to the ports tree in the last five years are the most recent things that come to mind showcasing the former. This habit of foisting major changes with (despite what some may claim) minimal or no testing on the users has cost the project some key developers in recent years, and while some of their replacements are top notch, there are some world class morons in there as well (one French asshole in particular has caused so many problems with his continual insertion of alpha quality code into production branches) and the project has suffered for it.
Shit like this is an example of the latter. Misgendering? GO FUCK YOURSELF. This PC gone mad mentality, no doubt being pushed by world class CUNTS like fucking Randi Harper, is flinging daggers at the project. Seriously, she is an absolutely horrible person in every single way, someone without any redeeming qualities. They pulled jive from the ports tree because one thin skinned fucking loser made a complaint, and the tiniest of minorities ruined the fun for EVERYONE else. See the Fortune censorship for another example of this. Here's an idea, if a program doesn't sit well with you, then fucking uninstall it instead of fucking over everybody.
I'd be so much happier if they'd instead invest some time and energy into getting actual usable CUDA/OpenCL support like other OSes have had for a decade now, and restabilizing the ports tree infrastructure instead of continuing with new poorly implemented changes before the old ones are sorted out.
In thinking about this, as long as I can pull updates to src and ports and have things work as expected (which is hit and miss these days) then it won't affect me. I was never a huge contributor, but I won't even consider helping now. I don't think they'll miss me since others with more patience and tact can help on the lists and forums, and it's been 12 years since I posted anything code related, but I'm not touching the community with a ten foot pole after seeing this. Too much PC snowflake toxicity.
The only ones who won't want to stick around are the ones nobody wanted around in the first place.
way nicer than any mainstream Mac or Windows GUI.
imo
Have a look at Jordan Peterson, who is calling out exactly what you have described.
The problem with SJWs, is they are wreckers. Like the radical union movement; they don't care if they put your company out of business, as the ideology is more important.
Similarly, if SJWs kill BSD, they will congratulate themselves having ridden the world of such a toxic community that didn't deserve to exist.
46137
FreeBSD is now the Rust of operating systems, without the memory protection...
We prefer the term Peopleism, it's more inclusive!
Bringing politics into software is foolish and only introduces a new dimension to make source code incompatible.
Old problem: We can't combine this BSD code, Acode, with this mixed MIT/GPL code, Bcode, because of the incompatible distribution/duplication license.
New problem:
We can't combine Gcode with Hcode because Gcode is under the LGBTTIQQ2SFatSkinnyDruggieMentalReligious social license, and Hcode is under the HugsAreOkProHealthlyRegularPeople social license.
Feminism is definitely needed in Muslim, African and Asian countries. Women are suffering there. However, it's not finished in the West.
Look at how many women are in positions of power in the West. Men outnumber women in government and in company boardrooms by a large margin. Feminism has a long way to go in the West.
I ignore the feminazis, by the way. They exist but they are not Feminism. Feminism is not man hating.
The people who wrote these policies are trying to control a few toxic individuals who make life difficult for others. You could say these "others" are a bit timid or a bit easily offended. We could debate the level of civility needed in order for discussion to be fruitful. However, having seen the nastiness that some people think is "rational criticism" I say rules like these eventually become essential or the harsh people eventually drive away all the timid people.
Sometimes the absolute best improvement in a project is the removal of a disruptive member. I've experienced that in paid and volunteer situations. Sometimes it has been like 10 years of Christmases all at once. Yes, some people are just that awful, even if they are technically good.
If you have a better idea on how to run a project, let us know. "Grow a pair of balls" is not a better idea, by the way, and would be one of the comments that could and should get you a black mark (just FYI).
You're insulting people instead of putting forward an argument in order to discredit people who insult instead of arguing the point, right? If so, you've gone over everyone's head.
It's especially obvious, by the way, because Trump and Damore are not in any way similar. Trump is consistently 100% arsehole (which is what his supporters want him to be) while Damore was just naive and didn't understand that his debating opponents won't accept discussion on some points.
CoC falls apart for one fundamental reason: You can't legislate people to RESPECT each other.
No, but you can legislate that people TREAT one another with respect, and apply appropriate sanctions when they don't.
It's no different than: You can't legislate that someone believe I have a right to live, but you can legislate that they NOT murder me (or incite others to do so) and apply appropriate sanctions (like life in prison without parole) if they do so (or even attempt it).
If only there was a rule against patronising lists of rules...
Spoken like a true authoritarian communist.
Everywhere.
FreeBSD is dead.
It does not mean anything anyways, it is just sort of a "prayer" you have to give to be in, no actual belief necessary. But it is tedious and a waste of time. So can we maybe just have some script that gets configured for the various SJW cesspools and adds all this crap they insist on automatically?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
What's it like to defend acting like an asshole? Why would you do that? How is "Hey, don't act all rapey" hypocritical or "white knight bullshit"? More importantly, what's wrong with you as a human being that this would cause such a reaction in you?
It's really quite creepy how many people this is triggering. As if acting like a decent human being is a bad thing? As if asking developers to not be creepy assholes is "virtue signaling"?
Guess what guys, welcome to the real world. People expect a little bit of professionalism.
And no, none of this is "virtue signaling". I don't need to signal my virtue to a bunch of strangers on the damn internet who don't affect my life in the slightest little bit. Further, NOT acting rapey isn't a virtue, it's the basic level of common decency and professionalism that should be expected without having to spell it out.
If this is bothering you, frankly, you're a bad human being.
This is the end of FreeBSD. It has been taken over anal people. The whole point of BSD was the chill people that just wanted to write good code. Not obsess about anal rules of conduct.
The code-of-conduct should just state "dont be a dick". That is all! That is true BSD philosophy. Keep it simple, stupid! Shut up and hack! FFS! SystemD for linux. now SJW for the BSD. Fuck!
FOSS is going downhill.
FreeBSD developer here. Based on the feedback on a private developers list, I can assure you that this updated CoC is not something being unanimously accepted by the community. It was developed "behind the scenes" and in my opinion it was pushed on us by Benno Rice. I have no problem working with and respecting all developers regardless of race, gender, gender identity, political affiliation, or sexual orientation. I judge people based on their actions as developers. This CoC, even if the intentions were well-meaning, comes across as sanctimonious, amateurish, and out of touch. Core elections are coming up this year. I am hopeful that it can be improved after Rice has been voted out.
Yes, 'illegal immigrant' is simply accurate. I can see how just 'illegal' comes off as denying their right to exist, but the law is just not letting them exist here.
'Undocumented' isn't inaccurate per se but does cast them in a favorable light, similar for offering Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Is that we don't have all of this social rules. "Dont be a dick" is a good rule. Its going to drive out all of the aspies and other people that are good coders. I dont understand how FreeBSD could be taken over by snowflakes ? FFS. This is a sad day. Its toxic. I can not support this community anymore. The code for our CORE infrastructure is now run by SNOWFLAKES! How can you make good code around people you have to walk on eggshells with? Code for our mission critical infrastructure which peoples lives _literally_ depends on are run by people that worry about "Deliberate misgendering." , and virtual hugs... And Im not joking. This is true. For fuck sake. What has happened.
At least I can take great joy in the glorious SpaceX dual rocket landing to feel that the world has not gone completely bonkers.
If people feel the need to be legislating things like not being an asshole, the project is doomed. Diversity stroke. When diversity and sjw culture sets it, all is lost.
...what a bunch of faggots!
Don't be an <FAGGOT>
Neurodiversity means various mental conditions, including autism (but not limited to it like the AC who replied to steelwraith said). The SJWs who came up with TFA don't consider transgenderism a mental illness, but I see where you got that from. Even if it is, it can't be cured, so maybe going along with them to some extent is a good treatment
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Awesome... hahahaha
If I've no choice but to pick a dystopia, I'll take the communists over the Nazis.
I'm reminded of the word "née", usually used for a married woman's maiden name, but also uses for other previous names, whether or not the name change was transgender-related.
Catelyn Stark née Tully, Bob Dylan née Robert Zimmerman, Chelsea Manning née Bradley Manning all seem like accurate uses of the word.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Looks good to me. Some people just dont get it and this is the reason for policy.
And just like everything it's the people that speak out and perform and lead the community that really matter no matter if you believe it or not. Those you are seeking to passify may be dysfunctional but they are the doers. I am not against a community code of conduct but it has to work socially. Coding and working on tools does not and should not require everyone to have the same morals or creed. I may not personally like an ex Nazi filmmaker but I can respect his artistic contributions for themselves which have nothing to do with a past political creed. I may criticize but I leave judgement to God.
If you think this is ridicules you might be a libertarian. Libertarians are against the use of violence to achieve social and political objectives. A city/county/state/county government is the tool of violence. Without violence government doesn't exist because it has no power. This code of conduct is acting as a form of government- which may not violate libertarian values- as it is opt in- but of which is still highly offensive to principled libertarian values. Principled libertarians are independent thinking mostly rational logical human beings. Libertarians not so much- these are the republicans in sheep clothing you might be more familiar with that run around many states. Principled libertarians are the sorts who have moved, have plans to move, and value freedom and are opposed to the use of violence and government [mostly]. Unless government is restricted to passing laws against non-consensual violence or theft the government is a bad government and should not exist.
Principled libertarians share values of both sides. We don't agree with the drug war- nor do we want government dictating who can hook up (ie gay relationships, etc). We also don't think government should be redistributing wealth. Taxes are an excuse to steal money/assets from one group or to otherwise enslave the population to the state. You become a part time slave where the majority of your labor is taken from you by the government and redistributed to causes you may or may not agree with. Like killing Muslims in foreign lands.
Rules like that which are being implemented by FreeBSD sound like the values I have- except that I understand what happens when you codify into law these values. You end up with a governing body that abuses them for personal gain. I've seen seemingly good laws routinely get abused by police, prosecutors, and judges alike. We don't need these rules. We need people to grow a pair.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
That's all.
policies. What happens when its religious ideal clashes with its sexual orientation ideal, hmmmmmm? When the Muslim earnestly thinks gays should be killed and the gay earnestly believes Muslims are toxic, who wins??? I have my suspicions, and I'd bet it's different from when a devout Jew or Christian believes it's wrong for gays to marry.
Policy statements like this are always dishonest and will predictably be enfored in ways that favor certain groups over other groups while presenting the false veneer that is the opposite. The "religion" bit will be upheld if a Christian or Jew says something impolite about Islam, but will be ignored if the Muslim says something impolite about the homosexual. The "race" bit will be upheald if the "victim" is non-white but ignored if the target is white. The gender bit will be enforced if the target is female or trans or questioning, etc, but ignored if male.
We've all seen this virtue signalling and liberal values pushing masquerade ball played out time and again for at least a decade now with identity politics running amok, and it's truly sad to see BSD people taking a nose dive into the cesspool of social/cultural fascism. So much for liberty, freedom, indiviuality, and actual tolerance.
Remember:
"Tolerance" is putting up with stuff you do not like and do not approve of, it is not the art of banning everything you dislike or disagree with.
"Diversity" is having lots of differences and allowing them to flourish, not stomping out everyone and everything that is or that thinks differently.
This policy is anti-tolerance and anti-diversity and the people pushing it need their heads examined....whoops... I think I just hurt the feelings of somebody across the "mental illness" and/or "neuro diversity" line.....call a counselor, some snowflake is about to have PTSD....
What's it like to defend witch hunting? Why would you do that?
tolerance for diversity.
If anybody disagrees with the groupthink of the morons who wrote this garbage, he or she [or zhe] must be BANISHED!
We must all CONFORM. We must all be the same. We must all think the same. We must all deny that any of us look unlike any other of us, no matter what our lying eyes tell us. We must all pretent we are all equally this or equally that no matter what the facts are. The highest value is now mindless groupthink.
Sameness is Diversity!
Enforced conformity is Tolerance!
War is Peace!
Freedom is a Prison!
It's all double-plus good ;-)
...Ummm... Hate to break this to you, but, Nazis were socialists.... ...And socialism is the premise for communism.
How long will it be until this project's team consists of nothing but professionally (and perpetually) offended, pathologically narrow-minded, self-righteous, sterile, and child like social justice warriors? Oh wait... they're already in that state.
The Code of Conduct for my project forum will be as follows:
* Do nothing illegal.
* Focus all discussion on the artefacts and/or logistics of the project.
* Converse impersonally and calmly.
* Report all rule violations privately to those empowered to enforce them. Only those empowered to enforce rules may respond to rule violations.
Now it's simple, but I challenge you to give me anything counterproductive that is still allowed, or anything productive that is not allowed.
"I've had 30 years of Java experience and I think ... " (No, you have made it personal. The balance of the comment can probably be kept and judged on its own merits, though.)
"What the fuck is wrong with you?" (No, stop emoting.)
"OMG, how could you miss catching that exception?" (No, you are inciting an emotional response. Maybe this would be moderated to "[You forgot to catch the exception.]".)
"His patch has a couple of potential bugs. The 'if' statement starting on line 178 has no else clause, which may allow null to propagate But other than that it looks ok to me." (Yes, but you will see later that the first word is very distracting for some people. If it distracts from what is important, the pronoun which breaks the impersonal rule will be removed and no political stand will be taken. It will read "[The] patch..." and we can move on without further distractions.)
"I'm offended by the fact you said 'his' when I'm actually a gender-fluid trans-curious sapiosexual, for whom the preferred pronoun is haq'!" (No, it is emotional and not focussed on the code.)
"OMG you just ignored my entire review to focus on a fucking pronoun? You're nothing but a whining, petty authoritarian who lives in a reality-distortion field made of loony-left drivel!" (No, you're now just shitting on top of a pile of haq shit, and it's not your job to moderate.)
"Waaaah! Someone called me names!" (No, hyper-emotional and not your job to moderate.)
"Hey, I think you guys need to calm down." (No, leave moderation to moderators so as to minimise the distruptive back-and-forth.)
"Clearly you don't appreciate contributions by anyone who isn't perfect like you, oh-great-and-mighty code reviewer!" (No, keep it impersonal, it is not about the reviewer, it is about the code.)
"I saw this cool video about a dog surfing on a guitar!" (No, this has nothing to do with the project.)
"Hey did you see the new language ZZZ? ..." (Not looking good, that isn't our project you're talking about...) "... It has opt-in garbage collection using a technique that would work with our ..." (Whew, it was relevant after all. Post redeemed.)
they just disagree about which way to do it wrong and who will get the blame when it all collapses.
I just have to laugh whenever some Marxist NAZI twit rants against a commie, or some commie dimwit rants against a NAZI.
Supporters of Marxism always argue about how to do it "the right way" and who are the "right people" to do it, and when it fails thay always claim it was done the wrong way by the wrong people but if given the chance the right people will implement it the right way and the result will be utopia.
Hundreds of millions of dead victims later, these evil rat bastard ideological twin brothers are still at it. Some people, it seems, are incapable of learning anything no matter how great the pain and suffering.
When one Marxist offers NAZIsm and the other offers Communism, the proper answer is to reject Marxism. Embrace freedom and liberty and guys like John Adams and Ben Franklin and others who advocated for the individual.
why do you assume the repeated attacks are not also a reaction?
there's a reason people started berating straight white males. they've been the ones deciding things and benefiting for centuries already. now people aren't kissing white ass anymore and you're all butthurt. white people are not fucking victims because minorities finally decided to stand up for themselves. gay people got tired of having to hide their sexuality. black people got tired of being called n*ggers and treated as property. hispanic people got tired of being told that they're all fucking criminals. women got tired of men telling them what they cant do with their bodies. minorities are tired of white people's bullshit.
white people got tired of...? what, exactly? being told that they shouldn't be fucking assholes? for not even a decade? poor you.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Why do they need all these specific rules?
On second thought, don't answer that question.
Codifying intolerance in the name of tolerance is an oxymoron.
The price of freedom is tolerance of others. This doesn't stop at "free speech" = not going to jail. Freedom is about all members of society realizing they DO NOT have the right to NOT be offended. Freedom means tolerating those you hate, those whose views are 180 of yours. It means tolerating belligerence who stir the pot and piss you off. Freedom requires grown adults to grow up not be coddled like children.
I have no patience to read all the comments, I have read about 1/4 of them. But:
1) I feel quite sad that the formalized rules are to be applied where it was enough for Ladies and Gentlemen to behave as in a good society.
2) I think it's necessary to be ready to the moment when the FreeBSD project is just closed due to the political correctness. Since FreeBSD is my main OS I think that the mirroring the FreeBSD project for emergency purposes becomes a necessity.
Full Disclosure: I live in Russia, and I have graduated from the University which before 1917 was a School for Noble Girls.
...Ummm... Hate to break this to you, but, Nazis were socialists....
This is a very common myth, and now is as good a time as any to debunk it. They called themselves "national socialists" to attract people (and distinguish themselves from "international socialists"), but all of the actual socialists were purged in the night of the long knives.
Nazis were neither right-wing nor left-wing in either the French Revolution sense or in the modern sense.
Good call. The commies only killed a few hundred million more than the nazis.
Because it is an OS, not a dating site dumbfuck.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
"Don't be an asshole" That's all that should be needed...
I am a partner at a firm with about 300 developers. Our employees contribute enough to FreeBSD that we actually have a charge code in our timekeeping system for contributions. I closed our FreeBSD task code as of midnight tonight, so starting tomorrow our employees will be prohibited from using company time or resources to contribute to FreeBSD.
If a project has to go out of its way to legislate a very basic moral compass, it is merely an indication that it is a toxic environment populated by toxic people, and we do not need to be associated with organizations like that.
If you do not kill your enemies, they win. Kill the women and their allies who foisted this upon you.
"Do work for us for free, and obey us in all things"
Take your projects back. Kill the enemies (the women).
This document will have the intended effect: to shield FreeBSD from contribution by self-driven men.
Self-driven men are the ones that create OpenSource and Free software (and start any field of science as a hobby).
This has been a very effective tactic in destroying Free Software projects.
White men are fools who just want to do whatever is in the best interest of their women (from banning child marraige of girls to this) so this campaign will be successful aswell.
Men do all the work.... and give the proceeds to women.
How do you like the Strong White Man's civilization?
You must work, while women rule over you.
You can't marry a cute young girl, but you must work work work.
FreeBSD:
Men work. Women rule.
PROUD White Men like a STRONG WOMAN.
(Any male that likes cute young girls is gay btw)
The very first thing first wave feminists did was ban men from taking female children as brides.
Anyone opposed to men taking female children as brides, should be slaughtered (YWHY allows men to take child brides: Dt 22, 28-29, hbrw)
You have to obey the women's formal rules inorder to have the "privilege" of donating your time an lively-hood to producing free code.
Just murder these cunts. Torture them until they are dead.
Now that should have pissed quite a few people off! Hugs and kisses to all of you!
Whilst I have the greatest sympathy of any sufferer of mental illness, I can;t help but think "go along with them" is causing more harm than good, if you are pandering to their illness.
I understand there are many people who transitioned and then regretted it, and any more who committed suicide afterwards - suggesting that the problem isn't with the transgenderism as they desire, but that is a symptom of underlying causes or dissatisfaction. Thus, the modern meme that you can be whatever you want to be is harming these people.
The SJWs don't consider anything other than what will piss off their political enemies, regardless of the consequences.
Emphasis here is low effort.
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Community_anti-harassment/Policy
I haven't found any other links in the comments.
I think the CoC went into effect about 2 years ago after I2PCon, in part due to personal attacks from certain older anti-social, but technically legitimate people against newer and less skilled people. The 'new' devs either already were, or became non-anonymous in order to push I2P as an alternative to Tor, but what really happened was they schismed the community into a Russian/Anti-CoC community, and a Western Pro-CoC/Handicapable community which basically stagnated. While one of the pro-CoC devs who'd collected donations due to the lack of a formal organization collected donations totalling 1000+ btc or 40-120 million dollars, which other than a few minor 'feature bounty' requests has not been used to spur development and raised flags among members of the more anarchist aspects of the community as to whether the project is still in anyone's interest except the CoC cabal and the person in control of that huge quantity of virtual currency assets.
None of the major devs are anonymous anymore. For people questioning why this matters: There have been major DDoS and Sybil threats in both implementations and the newer i2pd project had a major heartbleed-esque remote-read exploitable memory leak due to using a shared heap between packet handling code and 'secure' data like host and session keys. While this could have been innocent incompetence, there have been concerns for a while on the possibility of the russian based developers being compromised. Similiar concerns have been voiced about the Western devs, who haven't pushed forward the java implementation in 2-4 years, despite major security concerns and the possibility of Sybil/identification attacks with 24% rogue nodes/node compromise.
As the internet and software development communities become gentrified, the average skill level as well as common courtesy expected goes down. Yet at the end of the day the elitist assholery from people at the top of communities remains the same, resulting in the slow toxic death of the community and fewer healthy 'forked' communities replacing them over time. On the other hand: CoCs really aren't new. This shit has been pushed since the 90s, sometimes called 'moderation' back in the usenet/MU*/early IRC days, and often just as chilling on the content and conduct of channels and administrators, resulting in the good but cowboy admins leaving, replaced by HR/PHB type mentally below average control freaks, themselves often cloaking themselves in the mantle of authority to cover their own abuses, prejudices and misconduct by being the ones who manage said conduct. After all, who watches the watchers when every matter need to be discussed 'privately behind closed doors' for the sake of 'all those involved'?
I think PHK is unlikely.
(Sorry, PHK, I actually think you are amazing)
I've been using BSD for servers for 20 years, and as much as I support the kind of things they are talking about here, I don't support making it a hard and fast policy, nor do I agree with mixing social issues with technical and commercial products and services.
I will be migrating all of my servers, probably to one or another flavor of Linux.
The came for Debian in the mid 2000s (2007-2008.)
(DebianWomen).
Kicked out Ted Walther for being not pro-woman enough.
Not The Onion? Because parts of it read like a parody of master-class idiocy.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
Or maybe just harder to be an asshole without being called out.
You probably know this already, but "therapy dogs" or ducks or whatever are not legally service animals, and therefore are not subject to the same level of protection. They're a new thing that people with pets and their "doctors" who can't say no to a few extra bucks discovered they can (ab)use to take their pets where they weren't allowed such as restaurants and workplaces.
Freebsd was the first *nix i ever toyed around with. Then I found openbsd and never looked back. I'm not surprised that FreeBSD would sink to these lows, in retrospect. But I will never have anything to do with that project ever again. This kind of lunacy will only stop when right thinking people call out the charlatans.
No, what the fuck made you so insecure that mere words actually hurt you? Fuck you. You are not entitled to not be offended, you stupid little shit.
Wait a minute, you equate someone who verbally offends you with Nazis?
You, like all other SJWs, *really* need to take a step back and try to see how you behave objectively. Not only are you doing exactly what you claim you are against, but you also sound like a fucking child.
That would be why I said "if I had to pick a dystopia", yes. Frankly I'd prefer to fight both. Better dead than red and all that.
But if dead is not an option, then better red than Nazi. The communists were valuable allies the last time the Nazis had to be put in their place. They're a better bunch to live with than you'll ever be.
The level of butt hurt from people who use terms like "sjw" and "white knight" is palpable and glorious. I truly laugh at thee and all of your hilariously bad comparisons to oppressors and double laugh at you playing a victim. May the door hit your ass on the way out.
I don't equate everybody who verbally offends me with Nazis, no. People who support the genocide and/or subjugation of other peoples, that's another matter. Likewise for those who support "separatism", which I've found to be little more than genocide and subjugation muttered under one's breath. Likewise for people who knowingly and willingly make themselves part of the machine by which they mask their presence and abuse their countrymen and their rights. The Nazis use you, and you give them your informed consent, and all I'm doing is respecting their claim on you.
Am I doing what I claim to be against? No. I don't support killing, enslaving, or separating from others based on ethnicity, beliefs, opinions: essentially, anything people are. But things people do, like commiting such abominations, plotting to do it, or aiding those who do these things)? Against those, I claim right of self-defense.
And me? An SJW? Don't make me laugh. I see very little "justice" in their agenda at all. Elsewhere in the thread I mentioned that if I were forced to pick a dystopia, I'd pick the communists over the Nazis, but I'd pick the SJWs over either one. Doesn't make them any less dystopian, and I'd rather fight all three, but the SJWs are still better people to be around than your sort.
Awright, bait taken:
1. "Asking people to be civil to each other" is absolutely my point. I object to the disorganized list vomit of all things a person can do wrong; in its place (as others have noted) we ought to say something positive or give a directive, such as "Don't be a jerk."
2. Precious snowflake or thick skinned; make up your mind. I can't do both for you.
I think not...(*poof*)
Yep. Somebody has lost the meaning of the word "Free"
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Too drunk already and never even made it to the second paragraph.
When did calling places "spaces" turn into an SJW virtue signaling thing? I thought that was a yuppie snob thing, as in people who cannot bring themselves to call their apartments or condos apartments or condos.
Ah, as one of the bitter untouchables tries to brand me a troll. Sorry, Elliot; no one wants you around, because you're a disgusting creep, and now they're formulating the necessary rules to kick you to the curb like they should have done at the start.
Don't like it? I don't blame you for that. But there's a fix: you can grow the hell up and start acting like a person. You just don't want to, and that, I do blame you for.
The communists killed more people and advanced the suffering of a vast number beynond that, truly no comparison
I don't equate everybody who verbally offends me with Nazis, no.
Except you just did.
People who support the genocide and/or subjugation of other peoples, that's another matter. Likewise for those who support "separatism", which I've found to be little more than genocide and subjugation muttered under one's breath. Likewise for people who knowingly and willingly make themselves part of the machine by which they mask their presence and abuse their countrymen and their rights. The Nazis use you, and you give them your informed consent, and all I'm doing is respecting their claim on you.
Nice strawman. Too bad it's completely irrelevant. Do try to keep up with the discussion and not fabricate shit.
The Nazis use you, and you give them your informed consent, and all I'm doing is respecting their claim on you.
No they don't. I could just as easily say that the terrorists use you and you give them your informed consent by being a cowardly fearmonger and it would have the same credibility.
Am I doing what I claim to be against? No. I don't support killing, enslaving, or separating from others based on ethnicity, beliefs, opinions: essentially, anything people are. But things people do, like commiting such abominations, plotting to do it, or aiding those who do these things)? Against those, I claim right of self-defense.
Another strawman, but it has nothing to do with the conversation or the story.
Doesn't make them any less dystopian, and I'd rather fight all three, but the SJWs are still better people to be around than your sort.
And what is my sort? Honest, terse and direct? That's better than being the delicate and dishonest sugar faerie that you and your SJW brethren are.
1.a Yes, all we need is "please be civil to each other". Someone helpfully expanded that into a bunch of tiny rules. I don't see the problem. It's rather unnecessarily verbose, but not actually bad. It would be improved with a list of positives at the top, but that's about all.
1b. "vomit" is already too harsh. You'd be dinged by the rules. I assume your inability to stay inside rules is why you don't like rules. (And yes, that's deliberately provocative wording. Is that where you think we should be in every discussion? I don't.)
2a. That "snowflake" was deliberately added in order to demonstrate that name calling is a bad thing. Everyone here who is celebrating the "need" to be able to insult people in discussions is presumably on the "dishing it out" side rather than the "taking it" side. It seemed to fit with your rhetoric ("inauthentic narcissistic parents" etc). Can you claim, hand on heart, that you don't use this word?
2b. Your pithy summary seems apt for this article: many of the self-claimed thick skinned are actually snowflakes who can't bear to have their boorish behaviour called out. So even if you aren't trying to do both, I think a lot of commentators here are giving it a shot.
Anne Dickison set her LinkedIn to private in the past half hour or so, so I've done the world the service of mirroring it on PasteBin:
https://pastebin.com/4eDQ99xe
It's not surprising she's made it private, as it indicates not a single technical accomplishment over a 15+ year career. Indeed, you have to wonder how she is credited as "author" of the new code of conduct, when it's copied nearly verbatim from the Geek Feminisim Wiki. And since it's copied nearly verbatim, you also have to wonder what actual work Anne did during the entire year of 2017 -- a Q4 2016 report states she had been "overseeing the efforts to rewrite the Project's Code of Conduct to help make this a safe, inclusive, and welcoming community."
Why don't you grow up and stop whining and crying about what other people think and say. You want a monoculture world where everyone's values and opinions line up perfectly with your own. Sorry to break this to you, but the world isn't like that. There are many outlooks and you are an uncultured, untraveled and unlearned piece of shit for trying to stifle that.
Troll? Yeah, it looks like someone called you out on your bullshit. The fact that you were so bothered by the moderation that you just had to create a post specifically to attack the moderating user's opinion is tacit admission that you're an insecure crybaby. Seems that you need to grow some skin, grow a pair and grow the fuck up, little boy.
What an ignorant standpoint.
If I think you're a fuckstick, I'm infringing on your freedom by telling you to get the fuck out of my house?
No, I'm not. You're free to fuck off elsewhere. When FreeBSD does something beyond exercising their own right of agency, then we can talk about your infringed freedom, snowflake.
Stalin slaughtered plenty more people than Hitler by the time 1945 ended. And they weren't "valuable allies". They were all too happy so mass murder members of local undergrounds (who also fought against Nazis) to ensure that after the war puppet governments installed by USSR will be uncontested, they constantly blackmailed western countries to act against their own interest by threatening to pull out of the war (as soon as they pushed Germans away from their borders), and in 1944 Stalin already had plans to attack the West.
So no, they weren't "valuable allies". We just happened to have a common enemy. But Nazis, commies, it's just different paint job, no difference under the hood.
What is best in life? Hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper.
why do you assume the repeated attacks are not also a reaction?
there's a reason people started berating straight white males. they've been the ones deciding things and benefiting for centuries already. now people aren't kissing white ass anymore and you're all butthurt. white people are not fucking victims because minorities finally decided to stand up for themselves. gay people got tired of having to hide their sexuality. black people got tired of being called n*ggers and treated as property. hispanic people got tired of being told that they're all fucking criminals. women got tired of men telling them what they cant do with their bodies. minorities are tired of white people's bullshit.
white people got tired of...? what, exactly? being told that they shouldn't be fucking assholes? for not even a decade? poor you.
That's the SJW version of the elders of Zion. Throughout recent history a few white men have had power. Yes many if not almost all the power people of western Europe and the US have been white men. Shocking considering that's where most of the white people in the world live. At the same time, there were 100000x more white men living in poverty and under the boot of others in those same places. And you are painting both groups (actually the descendants of both groups) with the same brush.
And specifically in this case, the white men you are targeting have very little power. You seem to have no sense of self-awareness as that rant is way too similar to the tactics of anti-Semites throughout history. Its actually quite terrifying that people like you don't seem to recognize the parallels.
"Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
Thanks for the time, I'm putting this OS behind me after this.
I like offending people, because I think people who get offended should be offended.
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds#2012
None of what you mentioned is socialism.
Socialism is social ownership and democratic control of the means of production: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
It is not "whatever I don't like", as you seem to think.
Eat the rich.
Stalin was a murderous tyrannical despot. Where was the social ownership and democratic control of the means of production?
He cloaked his regime in the rhetoric of socialism, but he didn't actually implement it.
Eat the rich.
None of what you mention is Socialism or Nazism or Communism *if you ask them for their definition of themselves*.
You don't get it. No one is asking socialists or communists or nazis tro define themselves. No one cares what crawls out of their mouths. No one has to respect a single they say, and no one does except of course for their apologists.
Socialism communism and nazisim are what they do. They are what they have actually done.
So your attempt to refute my points with a self-generated definition which you then expect me to honor is the height of narcissicism.
No one is playing your games. Instead, we're funding the military.
Like Pol Pot?
Like Mao?
Like Chavez?
It is AMAZING to me that people with access to the internet do not know and cannot identify when they are making an argument which amounts to nothing more than the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
Your argument that that wasn't REAL socialism / communism / totalitarian system of government of your choice is the embodiment of the No True Scottsman logical fallacy.
Shame on you.
None of what you mention is Socialism or Nazism or Communism *if you ask them for their definition of themselves*.
You don't get it. No one is asking socialists or communists or nazis tro define themselves. No one cares what crawls out of their mouths. No one has to respect a single they say, and no one does except of course for their apologists.
Socialism communism and nazisim are what they do. They are what they have actually done.
So your attempt to refute my points with a self-generated definition which you then expect me to honor is the height of narcissicism.
No one is playing your games. Instead, we're funding the military.
I am going by the textbook definitions of socialism, communism, fascism and nazism, not the weirdo alt-right definitions you've made up yourself.
Eat the rich.
Yes, you've rattled off a list of tyrannical despots, well done.
Meanwhile, socialism is a big part of what makes northern European countries some of the best places in the world to live, by all relevant metrics.
Eat the rich.
Coding and working on tools does not and should not require everyone to have the same morals or creed.
No, of course not. But it is perfectly fine to ask people to be civil and professional in their communication.
Eat the rich.
And this sort of response is exactly the problem. I'm a fucking minority asshole. I worked my way up, I'm still a minority. I am relatively well-off, I'm still a minority. I get to have a modicum of political power in my community but I'm still a minority. I don't aspire to be governor or senator or anything, but I could if I wanted to, I would still be a minority.
White people (which I assume you mean American citizen blue collar white people), in my opinion, get tired of being held back in order to fill a quota, seeing their jobs evaporate to both Mexico proper and illegals from Mexico and being laughed at when they complain when their communities get wrecked by violence and drugs even though the relative numbers are much more affecting white blue collars right now than it is protected classes because of the quotas. They get tired of continuing to fund education to get smart boards and iPads for every student in the inner city when their own schools can't even stay open. They are tired of continuing to get blamed for black-on-black violence. THAT'S the current American reality.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Why don't you grow up and stop whining and crying about what other people think and say.
I'm not whining about what other people think and say. I am "whining" about attempted genocide. You are not fooling anybody.
You want a monoculture world where everyone's values and opinions line up perfectly with your own.
The opposite, actually. But a decebt and diverse world cannot function while there are people still attempting to commit genocide: these, therefore, must be stamped out.
Sorry to break this to you, but the world isn't like that. There are many outlooks and you are an uncultured, untraveled and unlearned piece of shit for trying to stifle that.
Amazing. Every assumption you just stated about me was completely incorrect. In fact, the only correct assumption you made about me in your entire post was that I am in fact male, and I suspect you just got lucky on that one.
This, I suspect; is why you can't get a date. Girls can smell the creepy on you, and they do everything they can to get away without setting off your tantrums. What's a manchild like you doing telling anyone to grow up?
I've been calling the Communists a dystopia ever since this thread began. What more do you want?
You're still worse. The only reason you didn't kill more people than Stalin is that you ran out of time when your dear leader killed himself. Stalin and the Soviets did a lot of terrible shiat putting you down, yes. This was not saints versus sinners; it was sinners versus demons. But the demons still lost, and the Soviets were a large part of why, and that makes their contribution valuable. Credit where it's due.
I don't equate everybody who verbally offends me with Nazis, no.
Except you just did.
I did literally the opposite.
The Nazis use you, and you give them your informed consent, and all I'm doing is respecting their claim on you.
No they don't.
You claim to know that little about the people you're defending? I don't buy that for a second. You've known ever since you signed up for the Daily Stormer.
I could just as easily say that the terrorists use you and you give them your informed consent by being a cowardly fearmonger and it would have the same credibility.
Ah, so you assume I don't support the global war on terror, do you? So sorry to disappoint, but you're wrong: after you're gone, Daesh is next. It's just a matter of priorities; you go after the biggest threats first. Any doctor could tell you the importance of triage.
Doesn't make them any less dystopian, and I'd rather fight all three, but the SJWs are still better people to be around than your sort.
And what is my sort? Honest, terse and direct?
Quite the opposite: your sort lie like rugs about your intentions while burying your vileness in far more words than you need to. There is nothing direct about it. You may as well just spout a couple slogans and acronyms: there would be no difference in substance.
That's better than being the delicate and dishonest sugar faerie that you and your SJW brethren are.
So you also think I don't believe there's a crisis of irresiliency in people today, especially among the SJW crowd. Wrong again. It's almost funny; I go out of my way to explain how I don't equate anyone who disagrees with me with the Nazis, and here you go equating everyone who disagrees with you with being SJWs. The truth is, we're far more alike than different, you and I. The only difference, it seems, is that I'm a decent and functional human being.
Exercising your own right of agency, in a civilized society, means that you do not infringe on the right of agency of others.
The United States, thanks to the worship of a form of liberty designed to do maximum harm instead of maximum good, is no longer civilized by that standard at all.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I want you to realize, that while slogans were different, nazim and communism were pretty much the same thing. In both cases you had one tyrant at the top, who ruled by his party, you had death camps, political purges and economy geared solely towards war. Different paint job, same engine. To use your metaphor, demons versus devils.
And what's with they "you"? I am a Slav, my ancestors fought against both regimes tooth and nail in the name of freedom and democracy, and I honor them for that. I can only hope, that when the push comes to shove I will have as much courage as they had to oppose any of them, should they ever come back.
What is best in life? Hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper.
You are being an offensive asshole. You are the kind of person the BSD project would expel.
Agreed. And when FreeBSD prevents you from exercising your right of agency outside of their club, I will stand next to you and scream and yell.
Doubtful, at this point. If I were already a part of the community, perhaps, but as things stand, anyone who would be offended by what I'm saying is going to get kicked off the project well before I join. That leaves me little reason to say these things within the community anyway.
If you don't like this, there is a simple solution. Not an easy one -I understand that- but it works every time and nothing else does. All you have to do is grow up.
Have I insulted his neurodiversity?
Of course, it always SEEMS reasonable!
The naive, surface view it is just that.
And in the meantime, those of us hated by the left wing bigots and politically correct nazis will simply exercise our free agency to leave the clubhouse to the morons.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I'm pretty sure we've made it completely clear that that is exactly what we would like you to do. ;)
You may continue to enjoy the fruits of our labors, though
Yeah. Whatever.
At some stage I guess you have to understand that accepting that there are two biological sexes and some confused individuals for whatever reason, that immigration of poorer people into a welfare society cost money and destroy the biological similarity of it's people and change society and break down cultural bonds, that identity is important, that that your opionion isn't that of all peopleÂs, that letting a politician or multiple of them decide what should be done with others money most likely doesn't lead to better usage of them than if people got to keep their own money to do whatever the fuck they wanted with them, that white male super-heroes and so on doesn't necessarily lead to nation-socialism and genocide.
It's not your way or nazism.
And yeah, I'd pick national-socialism since I'm white.
If anything I'd say you kinda make national-socialism acceptable because you say it's the only alternative to what you want. Which it isn't. But yeah.
You're not fighting "Nazis", you're fighting anyone who doesn't think exactly the same thing as you do.
You know, I think you'd be surprised at how many of your points we agree on. I count three and a half out of six (the half-point because, while I agree that unrestricted immigration is not such a good idea, I don't share your obsession with such irrelevant trivialities as the "biological similarity" between peoples). However, I manage this without calling for the genocide and subjugation of those different from myself, and I endorse other peoples' right to self-defense against those who do.
There are other differences between us, and, I'm sure, other similarities. But this is the one that makes all the difference. It is not "my way or Nazism" by any stretch of the imagination, but your way is Nazism. And that is why you must be stamped out.
What says it's an obcession?
I just state it's a thing. And just because you think people and their culture and ways and soverign rule and what not is worth preserving doesn't mean you have to kill anyone whatsoever. Maybe it's somewhat freedom restricting but I think the bad movement of people could had been sorted out by ditching the welfare state as-well.
As far as actual civil war, terrorism and genocide goes that's more of a thing which become relevant when you've already had your place invaded, the system can't keep you safe or limit your freedom. It sure as fuck wasn't necessary before it happened.
My way isn't nazism. My way was stopping the shit immigration early because all other options of dealing with the shit consequences are worse. But they didn't. A "peaceful" solution could still be to stop it and deport people but the longer they wait the more mixed up people will be and they will have a harder time doing it and then what?
I'm fine with an unsupporting free society which just let the poor starve away from society or commit crimes and be slaughtered for that when that happens too.
There definitely are solutions but since they wasn't even willing to make Sweden less attractive originally how likely are they to use any of the less attractive options?
Anyway it's their creation. They should take responsibility and undo it.
What says it's an obcession?
You do. You couldn't even get through a list of six points without mentioning it outright three times, and you masked it badly in several others.
I just state it's a thing.
And that is why you fail. It is not a thing, and it only takes a few minutes looking over the data to see that.
And just because you think people and their culture and ways and soverign rule and what not is worth preserving doesn't mean you have to kill anyone whatsoever.
Sure it does, the next time "your people" arbitrarily decide need some "living space". This has already happened whenever you or your ideological predecessors have ever taken power. And you've thrown your lot in with people who will do this again if given the chance. That makes you one of them.
Besides, why would anyone expect any people's "culture" and "ways", even their own, to last unchanging for all time? We all have so much to learn from each other, and we are at our best when we do so. As this happens, it isn't just natural for cultures to shift, and grow together, and eventually merge; it's frankly surprising thag anyone would expect otherwise. The culture you demand be locked into stasis is itself a result, in no small part, of many iterations of this exact process. It's how we work, it's what we do.
And this is not to say that immigration should be uncontrolled, nor that the controls should be recklessly loose. Every nation has, and legitimately needs, the right to say who can and cannot come in. But you have already stated that "biological similarity" factors into your goals for this control, and that pretty much invalidates your whole viewpoint. I am no liberal, to say that all viewpoints are equally valid: false paths exist, and yours is the most false.
Easy there, Eric Raymond, calm down.
We've got our own fruits, thank you much. We don't need yours.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I just saw an article saying that many universities are instituting a policy of yes means yes, or explicit consent to sexual activity.
Now, I don't have a problem with the need for consent or the prevention of rape. However, I don't see that any policy is necessary to intervene in my sex life, or anyone else's.
If they tried to get me to conform to such a policy, I would tell them to go fuck themselves. It is, quite frankly, none of their business.
Hopefully we will soon emerge from this sexual Ice Age we seem to be stuck in.
Social democracy is not socialism. Thatâ(TM)s why the Scandinavian countries are not failed states. Itâ(TM)d be a very different picture if they were socialist countries.
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Hitler - 6 to 10 million deaths.
Communism = 100+ million in the 20th century. (perhaps as high as 200 million)
To be sure, Hitler and the Nazis were horrible horrible people. But... on the grand scale of murder, they were fucking amateurs.
You are an idiot of you choose Communism over Fascism. They both enslave you, but one is FANTASTIC at killing people. The Nazis killed you, but the Commies starved you and everyone in your village.. Nice and slow... Lots of suffering.
For fuck's sake, Pol Pot exterminated 40% of the population of his own country.
Seriously, your statement was so stupid it boggles the mind..
You are a liberal aren't you? I ask because the level of idiocy you just displayed.... I give up..
You get a Politburo and central planning for everything.
I'm so sick of the "We'll get Socialism right" assholes. Your experiment failed. Don't think so? Head down to Venezuela, asshole...
Meanwhile, socialism is a big part of what makes northern European countries some of the best places in the world to live, by all relevant metrics.
Lies! Those economies are teetering on the brink. And those that aren't are being propped up by those who are still producing and are working capitalistic systems.
I'm tired of the constant EVIL that is espoused as virtue. SOCIALISM IS EVIL. It's not "a good idea on paper". IT IS EVIL.
Those who meet after locking eyes over the water cooler are more likely to enjoy long lasting love, new research has revealed. Despite discouragement from companies and colleagues, office romances are more likely end in marriage than relationships that start in any other way - even meeting through friends. By contrast, relationships begun in a nightclub or pub almost always end in either a fling or a one-night stand.
This idea that we can't have any social / romantic interaction AT ALL at work or (to take your argument) anywhere else is BULLSHIT. The line should be harassment and no further. You ask a co-worker out, she says no.. No harm, no foul.. You ask again, problem.. Absolutely. But this idea that works needs to be pure monotony is stupid. And yes, the "It's an OS not a dating site" should have the same fucking line...
You are a liberal aren't you? I ask because the level of idiocy you just displayed.... I give up..
As I've said before, I don't think anyone to the left of Orrin Hatch could ever mistake me for a liberal.
The total body count for Communism is indeed quite high, but it fails to take into account the fact that they've had a lot longer to do it, and much greater resources at their disposal. The only reason the Nazis' count isn't higher is that they ran out of time: given a larger empire and several decades, there can be little doubt that they'd have done far worse.
Dammit; I'm trying to remember the name of the fallacy where disagreeing with A supposedly means that B is good. You and your so-called friends have been spewing it all over the place. I am not attempting to claim that Communism is remotely acceptable. I'm merely pointing outthat there are things even worse than Communism, and, well, you're it.
The total body count for Communism is indeed quite high, but it fails to take into account the fact that they've had a lot longer to do it, and much greater resources at their disposal. The only reason the Nazis' count isn't higher is that they ran out of time: given a larger empire and several decades, there can be little doubt that they'd have done far worse.
But there is doubt. We don't know what they would have done. We only know what they did do and what the Socialists did. When you compare the two, it's the socialists who racked up the higher body count. By far.... Like, it's not even close. Do I suspect the Nazis would have been just as bad? Yeah... But I can't present that as evidence because it's not. However, I can show you the atrocities of the socialists and I can present it as evidence, because it did happen. It's history, not speculation.
Dammit; I'm trying to remember the name of the fallacy where disagreeing with A supposedly means that B is good. You and your so-called friends have been spewing it all over the place. I am not attempting to claim that Communism is remotely acceptable. I'm merely pointing out that there are things even worse than Communism, and, well, you're it.
But there is no fallacy here. We don't have a situation where you picked A and I accused you of hating B, or vice versa. You presented the two options and then told us which you would have chosen. No outside influence was present. You said "Nazi vs Communism. I choose Communism".
I'm merely pointing out that there are things even worse than Communism, and, well, you're it.
And once again, you prove you are a fucking moron. You take my political stance or my debate against you and you say "What you say/think/feel/etc is worse than an institution that exterminated 100+ million people". Do you really not get how fucking retarded that is? I mean, seriously... What the hell? That level of logic is on par with you announcing you dislike Chocolate and I say "Oh my God, you're worse than a slave holder". Yeah, I'm serious. My views, opinions, thoughts, and maybe even stupidity (I don't claim to be omniscient or infallible) are not worse than a ideological, cultural, and political system that killed more people than live in Egypt (pop 96,000,000). If you don't understand that, then there is no hope for you (but it still DOES NOT make you WORSE than communism or fascism). It just makes you an idiot.