>> 1. To look for patterns (See Carl Sagan/Contact) > > Right.... You'd be more productive feeding the > Bible into a random number generator.
Actually, that was kinda Carl's point. It would be a real message from the creator of reality.
>> 2. Test out new computer hardware/software > > This is not useful. There are better ways to test hardware/software.
Not to test -- to exercise it to demonstrate power, especially when the identical algorithms are used. It's the processor equivalent of testing Quake timedemos on new 3D boards.
>> 3. The thrill of the chase. Some people climb >> mountains, other people calculate billions of >> digits of Pi. > > This is not useful.
I don't understand what part of "thrill of the chase" you thought must be useful. It is useful in-and-of-itself as a mental exercise. If that isn't useful to the human race, I'd like to see how you define useful.
>> Q: What do you get when you cross a mosquito >> with a rock climber? >> A: Nothing. You can't cross a vector and a >> scalar. > > The joke is referring to a Cross Product > [wolfram.com], an operation defined on two > vectors. You can't take the cross-product of a > vector and a scalar.
Ok, I get how a mountain climber is a "scalar" (scaler, scaling the mountain.) But how is a mosquito a vector? It's quite a stretch to suggest a mosquito being a vector for a disease (said usage of vector already being a stretch in the real world.)
>> Q: What's big, grey, and proves the >> uncountability of the reals? >> A: Cantor's diagonal elephant. > > The joke is referring to the Cantor Diagonal > Argument...
And how does the elephant come into it?
>> Q: What is often used by Canadians to help >> solve certain differential equations? >> A: the Lacrosse transform. > > The is a technique that makes certain > differential equations a lot easier to solve... and what, Canadians play a lot of Lacrosse or something? Perhaps "What is often used by all-girls schools to solve..." would have been funnier.
> horrible body odor from the Everquest people mixed
Oh Jesus, Lord in Heaven. I loathe going to pick up my 12 year old at Warhammer 30,000 down at the local hobby store on Saturdays. The raw, unbridled stench in that back playroom is incomparable.
Yes, you guys. I'm talking to you! The room is, for the most part, filled with high school and college age young, stinking men. One of those rooms Dogbert would hang out outside to study chronic cases of social retardation -- so severe they are unaware of the existance of others.
Democracy: Abstraction of might makes right, rule by the slickest thug who can pull a convincing Miss Cleo impersonation on the masses, ALWAYS based on "authorize me the power to bash the heads of (insert evil Jewish businessmen, evil generic businessmen, depending on whether you lean left or right) and I'll make your life better -- I promise!"
What ever happened to a country based on Freedom, rather than unresticted Democracy? I'll tell you what. Not too many politicians run around saying we'll increase your freedom by getting rid of some of the 60,000+ laws of a full-time, 220+ year old legislature.
I got the feeling stopping the sentinels was because he had some kind of mental tie into the matrix's AI minds thanks to his partial wetware takeover by agent Smith.
> Someone above made a comment about using humans > as "processors", which would have made a much > more plausible technical reason for the AI > keeping the humans around
It would certainly fit in with agents taking over anything "still hardwired to the system", i.e. programming the wetware of a copper top's brain, overlaying the agent's mind so the agent could take over their avatar.
Remember the Woman in Red scene?
Which reminds me, this was left on the cutting room floor, for obvious reasons:
Mouse: How do the computers know what chicken tastes like? Maybe that's why everything tastes like chicken. They didn't know what it tasted like in reality!
Switch: That's why the Woman in Red's kootch tastes like chicken, eh Mouse?
(Everyone laughs. Mouse is redfaced.)
Dozer: Switch, you goddamned dyke. You are da shit! (High-fives her.)
> Since the holodeck routinely causes that kind > of severe trouble for the crew, you'd think > they'd stop using the damn thing.
You'd think they'd stop having families on board after the 3rd time in a month the ship was almost destroyed, and fired the asshole in Starfleet who designed the ship that way.
>> At the end, Barkley wonders if he himself is >> part of a simulation and says "Computer, end >> program". >> > > IMO - its precisely this sort of episode which > makes star trek a steaming pile of dung
Exactly. Should've been, "Computer, JLo's ass in my face." if Reg had any creativity. Even his "perverted" simulations lacked any stinky body parts.
> Due to some sort of biological enhancement the > mainframe of the Matrix is able to use any > value between 1 and 0 as the basis for all > computation
As long as this doesn't mean the full set of irrational numbers, then ultimately it maps to 0's and 1's, and you gain no computational advantage.
If they've found a way to calculate using true full set of irrational numbers, I cannot imagine them gaining any advantage over pure binary, at least not for thinking capability. It might make for an interesting, 100% accurate digital representation of quantum mechanics, though.
The first batch could have been "grown" from scratch by the machines, as well, with agents & friends filling in as the adults for the first generation.
But why bother with mind erasure available? Presumably mind memory implantation, too. After all, they can load any skills necessary; memories should be trivial to them.
> it would be mind-numbing to write (much less > RUN) a program that would fully emulate every > atom in the world at all times
Actually it'd be pretty easy.
Just define several arrays of about 10^^300 x 10^^300 x 10^^300 or so, representing in 3-space every possible position in the universe, and start filling 'em up with subatomic molecules, set down the rules (or go deeper, similarly for quantum mechanics) and just check each position against all the others for collision detection, etc.
For all you know, that could be trivial with a 10 cent processor in that surrounding meta-universe.
Why in god's name expect the meta-universe in which we are a simulation to have the same properties as this one? It may not be quantum mechanics, Einsteinian, no "speed of light", and so on.
So many are arguing how difficult it would be to simulate this universe from within this universe, or from within another universe with identical rules. In a universe without mass, there would be no limit to how fast things could move around, and hence, to computational power.
If this world is a computer simulation, god only knows what the metaworld's computational limits might be. Their physics may be nothing like our physics at all. Googleplex to the googleplex to the googleplex computations per nanosecond might be trivial in that universe.
Indeed, if this universe is simulated, that's a high argument for such power right there.
Re:Astonishing capabilities
on
I, Spammer
·
· Score: 1
"Hello, Neo. I'm Spammity"
"THE Spammity, who cracked the AOL spamfilter? Funny, I always thought you were cool."
"Most guys do."
Astonishing capabilities
on
I, Spammer
·
· Score: 2, Funny
> an eighth-grade dropout and self-taught > computer programmer from Louisiana, who claims > that he sends between 120 million and 180 > million e-mails every 12 hours, that he can > break sophisticated software filters 24 hours > after they are deployed, and that he has no > choice but to resort to forging the sender > information in his bulk e-mail so he can be > anonymous and maintain his connection to the > Internet.
And here you guys all thought Neo was one of the good guys.
> Actually, I suspect that this is not, in fact, > a formal law but a typical conglomeration of > regulations
Can someone point a gun at you and take you prisoner, or force you to give them money for violating this rule? If you decline their offer sufficiently vigorously, may they then legally kill you?
Actually, all encryption file formats have at the minimum a tiny wrapper header around the encrypted data so the decoding program can recognize the type of algorithm that needs to be applied.
And if your data is truly random, it will stand out on statistical tests like a sore thumb from even a very highly encrypted set of data. (Not that I'd expect a field agent to recognize that, but someone at the core of the CIA decoding department would know all about it.)
Hmmmm...I wonder if anyone's written a paper on this subject. Ehh, mine is not to get a PhD. Mine is to feed others less lazy than myself.
Slashdot Mirror
>> 1. To look for patterns (See Carl Sagan/Contact)
>
> Right.... You'd be more productive feeding the
> Bible into a random number generator.
Actually, that was kinda Carl's point. It would be a real message from the creator of reality.
>> 2. Test out new computer hardware/software
>
> This is not useful. There are better ways to test hardware/software.
Not to test -- to exercise it to demonstrate power, especially when the identical algorithms are used. It's the processor equivalent of testing Quake timedemos on new 3D boards.
>> 3. The thrill of the chase. Some people climb
>> mountains, other people calculate billions of
>> digits of Pi.
>
> This is not useful.
I don't understand what part of "thrill of the chase" you thought must be useful. It is useful in-and-of-itself as a mental exercise. If that isn't useful to the human race, I'd like to see how you define useful.
>> Q: What do you get when you cross a mosquito
...
... and what, Canadians play a lot of Lacrosse or something? Perhaps "What is often used by all-girls schools to solve..." would have been funnier.
>> with a rock climber?
>> A: Nothing. You can't cross a vector and a
>> scalar.
>
> The joke is referring to a Cross Product
> [wolfram.com], an operation defined on two
> vectors. You can't take the cross-product of a
> vector and a scalar.
Ok, I get how a mountain climber is a "scalar" (scaler, scaling the mountain.) But how is a mosquito a vector? It's quite a stretch to suggest a mosquito being a vector for a disease (said usage of vector already being a stretch in the real world.)
>> Q: What's big, grey, and proves the
>> uncountability of the reals?
>> A: Cantor's diagonal elephant.
>
> The joke is referring to the Cantor Diagonal
> Argument
And how does the elephant come into it?
>> Q: What is often used by Canadians to help
>> solve certain differential equations?
>> A: the Lacrosse transform.
>
> The is a technique that makes certain
> differential equations a lot easier to solve
And where's "Why was six afraid? Because 7 8 9!"
And the 31 OCT == 25 DEC joke?
CS doesn't even require differential equations, for goodness' sake. I hadda take that over the summer for kicks and giggles.
> horrible body odor from the Everquest people mixed
Oh Jesus, Lord in Heaven. I loathe going to pick up my 12 year old at Warhammer 30,000 down at the local hobby store on Saturdays. The raw, unbridled stench in that back playroom is incomparable.
Yes, you guys. I'm talking to you! The room is, for the most part, filled with high school and college age young, stinking men. One of those rooms Dogbert would hang out outside to study chronic cases of social retardation -- so severe they are unaware of the existance of others.
Democracy: Abstraction of might makes right, rule by the slickest thug who can pull a convincing Miss Cleo impersonation on the masses, ALWAYS based on "authorize me the power to bash the heads of (insert evil Jewish businessmen, evil generic businessmen, depending on whether you lean left or right) and I'll make your life better -- I promise!"
What ever happened to a country based on Freedom, rather than unresticted Democracy? I'll tell you what. Not too many politicians run around saying we'll increase your freedom by getting rid of some of the 60,000+ laws of a full-time, 220+ year old legislature.
> Strange, at the last party I was at gamers
...and I'd also bet Internet pr0n masturbators outnumbered people with healthy sex lives.
> outnumbered non-gamers
Triumph the Comic Insult Dog:
> Denial of Service via Algorithmic Complexity
This issue is very similar to the denial of productivity in a software shop due to the introduction of QUake CTF or broadband pr0n access.
I got the feeling stopping the sentinels was because he had some kind of mental tie into the matrix's AI minds thanks to his partial wetware takeover by agent Smith.
> Someone above made a comment about using humans
> as "processors", which would have made a much
> more plausible technical reason for the AI
> keeping the humans around
It would certainly fit in with agents taking over anything "still hardwired to the system", i.e. programming the wetware of a copper top's brain, overlaying the agent's mind so the agent could take over their avatar.
Remember the Woman in Red scene?
Which reminds me, this was left on the cutting room floor, for obvious reasons:
Mouse: How do the computers know what chicken tastes like? Maybe that's why everything tastes like chicken. They didn't know what it tasted like in reality!
Switch: That's why the Woman in Red's kootch tastes like chicken, eh Mouse?
(Everyone laughs. Mouse is redfaced.)
Dozer: Switch, you goddamned dyke. You are da shit! (High-fives her.)
> Since the holodeck routinely causes that kind
> of severe trouble for the crew, you'd think
> they'd stop using the damn thing.
You'd think they'd stop having families on board after the 3rd time in a month the ship was almost destroyed, and fired the asshole in Starfleet who designed the ship that way.
>> At the end, Barkley wonders if he himself is
>> part of a simulation and says "Computer, end
>> program".
>>
>
> IMO - its precisely this sort of episode which
> makes star trek a steaming pile of dung
Exactly. Should've been, "Computer, JLo's ass in my face." if Reg had any creativity. Even his "perverted" simulations lacked any stinky body parts.
The real problem is that neither position makes any sense when you think about it:
1. Everything has a cause, therefore causation and existance go infinitely back in time
2. Somethings were uncaused (creation of the universe, God, whatever.)
Worse, the second opinion has the feel of a cop-out, so no one likes to settle on it.
> Due to some sort of biological enhancement the
> mainframe of the Matrix is able to use any
> value between 1 and 0 as the basis for all
> computation
As long as this doesn't mean the full set of irrational numbers, then ultimately it maps to 0's and 1's, and you gain no computational advantage.
If they've found a way to calculate using true full set of irrational numbers, I cannot imagine them gaining any advantage over pure binary, at least not for thinking capability. It might make for an interesting, 100% accurate digital representation of quantum mechanics, though.
> For touch, you just simulate the smallest
> texture difference that a human can feel.
My god, where is the folder with all the Sandra Bullock big wrinkled kissy lips textures? Tank, load it up!
Meta-programmer #1: Should we simulate gosp-space, trinary illimitation, Buford matties, and Throsen Fields?
Meta-programmer #2: Nah, just keep it simple at the Quantum level and about 10^^80 particles and about 10^^300 possible positions, cubed.
Meta-programmer #1: Good, I wanna get to Mickey D's for lunch.
Get a clue, folks. If this universe is a simulation, then we may conclude the meta-universe:
1. Has physics that allow for a lot more power than we can imagine possible at the moment
2. May have physics completely different from ours.
The first batch could have been "grown" from scratch by the machines, as well, with agents & friends filling in as the adults for the first generation.
But why bother with mind erasure available? Presumably mind memory implantation, too. After all, they can load any skills necessary; memories should be trivial to them.
> it would be mind-numbing to write (much less
> RUN) a program that would fully emulate every
> atom in the world at all times
Actually it'd be pretty easy.
Just define several arrays of about 10^^300 x 10^^300 x 10^^300 or so, representing in 3-space every possible position in the universe, and start filling 'em up with subatomic molecules, set down the rules (or go deeper, similarly for quantum mechanics) and just check each position against all the others for collision detection, etc.
For all you know, that could be trivial with a 10 cent processor in that surrounding meta-universe.
Why in god's name expect the meta-universe in which we are a simulation to have the same properties as this one? It may not be quantum mechanics, Einsteinian, no "speed of light", and so on.
So many are arguing how difficult it would be to simulate this universe from within this universe, or from within another universe with identical rules. In a universe without mass, there would be no limit to how fast things could move around, and hence, to computational power.
If this world is a computer simulation, god only knows what the metaworld's computational limits might be. Their physics may be nothing like our physics at all. Googleplex to the googleplex to the googleplex computations per nanosecond might be trivial in that universe.
Indeed, if this universe is simulated, that's a high argument for such power right there.
"Hello, Neo. I'm Spammity"
"THE Spammity, who cracked the AOL spamfilter? Funny, I always thought you were cool."
"Most guys do."
> an eighth-grade dropout and self-taught
> computer programmer from Louisiana, who claims
> that he sends between 120 million and 180
> million e-mails every 12 hours, that he can
> break sophisticated software filters 24 hours
> after they are deployed, and that he has no
> choice but to resort to forging the sender
> information in his bulk e-mail so he can be
> anonymous and maintain his connection to the
> Internet.
And here you guys all thought Neo was one of the good guys.
> Actually, I suspect that this is not, in fact,
> a formal law but a typical conglomeration of
> regulations
Can someone point a gun at you and take you prisoner, or force you to give them money for violating this rule? If you decline their offer sufficiently vigorously, may they then legally kill you?
If the answer is yes, then it's a law.
Actually, all encryption file formats have at the minimum a tiny wrapper header around the encrypted data so the decoding program can recognize the type of algorithm that needs to be applied.
And if your data is truly random, it will stand out on statistical tests like a sore thumb from even a very highly encrypted set of data. (Not that I'd expect a field agent to recognize that, but someone at the core of the CIA decoding department would know all about it.)
Hmmmm...I wonder if anyone's written a paper on this subject. Ehh, mine is not to get a PhD. Mine is to feed others less lazy than myself.
I heard they allow your silence in court to be used against you there, too, now.
> Donate to the Republican party. Even if you are
> violating the law, you'll get better treatment.
Wow! Better treatment than under the Democrats? I can't wait to see how many crooks get a pardon 3 minutes before W leaves office!