Yes, and $4B x 4 is $12B/year. So they are losing billion to sell BILLIONS (not "thousands").
Revenue growth is up - and so are costs, and the losses.
Yes, sacrificing profitability to increase market share might sound crazy, but it is business as usual in . . . business. For Tesla, it is a small price to pay to start dominating an entire segment of the car market. ..>, and its marketcap would tend to agree. . .
Tesla has NEVER been profitable. Even though it's existed since 2003 doesn't necessarily make it mature either.
Yes, so you are agreeing with me that Tesla is in the "growth" stage of its business life cycle?
creating a cult of incredibly naive
I think "naive" people tend to write confusing posts where they seem to be both insult you and support your point at the same time. . . why not learn some basic finance before complaining about other people being naive?
people who believe they are going to save the planet by destroying the environment
I bought a Tesla because its a kickass car, and I love to effortlessly smoke old-timers like yourself when the light turns green. Saving the planet is a side benefit. . . and the fact that you think electric vehicles are destroying the planet shows that finance is not the only area of expertise that you are severely lacking in. . .
going to do to the market in general when reality finally hits and all those people are wiped out. Most will never invest in anything ever again nor trust honest executives.
So says the poster lacking even a remedial grasp of finance. . . Do tell. . . how does taking Tesla private "wipe out" investors?
losing billions to sell thousands... When does it stop?
The first "stop" occurs when you get your facts right. . . 2018Q2 Rev: $4B, Net Loss; $0.7B, YTD Rev growth:43%. Go find me a mature company that is always profitable that increased their revenues by 43% in the last year. . .
The second "stop" occurs after Tesla goes private, and all the crazy short sellers go after some new victim (if they have not already killed themselves off after their bad bet against Tesla). At that point, you will have less public information to (mis)-inform yourself with, so your only reminder of how wrong you were at this point of your life will be steady and unrelenting electrification of the transportation system (with many Tesla logos passing by in your peripherals every where you go. ..).
The 3rd "stop" occurs after the electrification of the transportation market and the transition of the electrical grid to renewable energy sources backed with battery based storage. At this point, Tesla growth will have peaked, and it will now have to become another slow growing giant that no one ever posts about in forums like Slashdot. . .
You do realize that the entire basis for Wall Street (and capitalism) is that new, high growth wealth creation ideas initially require more funding than they can initially generate from their own operations, right? Ever heard the phrase, "it takes money to make money?" The vast majority of new forms of wealth creation require some form of initial "investment." Larger and longer periods of investment are correlated with higher expectations of growth and wealth creation.
But, specifically, which party is gaining wealth at the expense of which party in Tesla's case? Keep in mind, if Tesla goes private at $420 a share, everyone who has ever bought long and held to that point will realize a significant return. Where did that wealth come from? It was created turning boring, commodity materials into the best car I have ever owned.
Well, I think in the end, this is a cultural war between those in the wealth creation business (Elon Musk/Tesla) and those in the wealth transfer business (Wall Street). As far as Wall Street is concerned, the public CEO is there to serve them. When a public CEO does not act accordingly, the entire industry goes out for blood.
I have had Wall Street types find out I own a Tesla and go into some kind of rant of why the company is doomed, that "everyone I talk to is shorting them", and all their cars catch on fire. That is not normal "car" talk. That is crazy "they faked the moon landings" type shit. It is like the entire industry is acting like some kind of cult because a public CEO had the gall to stand up to them.
That is why I think Tesla should go private. Not because Elon Musk is crazy, but because Wall Street is. . .
This feels like a lifeguard going after kids for splashing. . . during a hurricane. . .
However, I do agree with the Musk critics that say he should not be the CEO of a public company. . . that is why Tesla needs to go private.
Let good engineers quietly build stuff (and occasionally vent on Twitter, without regulatory consequence) and the do-nothing CEO's of public companies continue do nothing and look good in the name of shareholder value.
I just want to drive their cars. . . the rest just seems like a silly distraction.
Each time you respond, I am impressed by the additional effort you must put in as an AC to track this thread (how many refresh clicks did it require to read this?). Each response further strengthens my conviction that jealousy must be the driving factor for your rage posts . . .
By the way, where I drive, lane lines are textured to alert drivers that they are on the lane line. The haptic feedback definitely gets engaged before that point. So you are basically trying to make a silly point that approaching the lane line is dangerous. If you do not use the full lane to give other drivers who are hugging their own lane line or bike riders additional space, you are the dangerous driver. But, I am pretty sure the underlying issue is envy, so I have long given up on trying to have a rational debate on this subject with you.
At this point, this thread is about the grin it gives me every time the haptic feedback of my Tesla is engaged, and I am reminded of some ravenous Slashdot AC that could never come to terms with his own envy (and had a "Rain Man" like view of haptic feedback). Please never stop posting to this thread : )
Well, you have basically endorsed the AC's post, and your/. profile says you are an editor by profession . . So yes, it appears I have tricked you into working for me for free.
Looks like you have had to trade some business acumen in order to gain some ability in linguistic pedantry = )
Agreed, but I think it would be very difficult due to American politics. A single-payer medical system would be much easier to implement and America is probably decades away (if even that) from ever considering that due to politics. . .
I think a more likely possibility is a network of fully autonomous cars that ends up looking a lot like passenger rail (except it runs on top of pavement instead of rails). Americans are a stubborn lot and are more likely to reinvent things than adopt what has worked elsewhere (e.g. gun control in Australia).
If you're experiencing lane departure warnings then you're a bad driver. If you're experiencing lane departure warnings and you don't know what they're for, then you're an accident waiting to happen.
So, if you are driving on an empty road, no cars to be seen, and you change lanes without signalling and without recognizing the reason your wheel is vibrating, 2 times over two months, you are an accident waiting open. . . Ok, I think I am getting an image of you when you cross the street.
However, what I think you are actually trying to say is: you are endorsing my Tesla purchase, as it will likely be the first car to get full autonomy and that I am extremely lucky to have survived my first two months of ownership and, now that I know about the haptic feedback, my likelihood of surviving long enough to be saved by Tesla's full autonomous driving functionality has increased significantly. Overall, a very positive future outlook, just like Tesla's. Thanks!
Perhaps, but I am not the one still posting as AC. At least my issues are out in the open where they can be addressed while you are viewing the world through a peephole. . . At least you are being more civil now. Perhaps my last post stroke a note, and you have realized that you cannot hide from your own actions?
Dear AC,
As an AC poster, I have no context to understand your post in respect to this thread. So I will respond more generally . . . Someone who lobs such vitriol from the safety of anonymity reflects a degree of cowardice that is self-betraying and only hurts the owner of said act. I could try to guess your motivations. . . perhaps this stems from a suppressed self-loathing and insecurity that you attempt to cover-up with hubris and arrogance towards others. Or, perhaps you have at some point of your life mistook skepticism and pessimism as the essence of intellect, and, as a result, you have scorched away all traces of hope from your mental model of the world. However, at the end of the day, these would only be projections of people that I actually know, and there is no way I could ever know they apply to you.
So, let me leave it at this. . . In the end, our small, insignificant lives are defined by the sum of our actions. Those during loud, life changing events and, those during quiet, otherwise routine moments. Your actions here are part of who you are. I truly hope that dark moments like these are not your proudest moments. Why else post as an AC? But, nevertheless, these actions still belong to you, and, consequently, define who you are. Anonymity may keep you safe from accountability to others, but it cannot save you from accountability to yourself. So my hope is that you will start to reflect during your darker moments like this and learn to do more in the light and less in the dark. Life is fleeting, and it is better to face the flames of tortured souls in the light than it is to join their ranks in the cowardice of the dark.
Awesome. . . my post was apparently important enough for someone to volunteer to be my editor. Duly noted! Will make sure the edit gets into my published memoir version of the post. Thanks!
Wait, you are blasting me for not being aware of haptic feedback in steering wheels for lane drifting, which is a couple of years old (people usually buy cars once every 5 years. ..), and you still haven't figured out how to create a Slashdot account, which is 20 years old? I think your display of cognitive dissonance is what is truly amazing here. . .
What amazes me is that you apparently drive so badly but haven't yet killed anyone.
How can you make that assumption (applies equally both to your bad driving assumption and haven't yet killed anyone assumption. ..)? Either way, guess you should be happy I got a Tesla that will soon be able to completely drive itself?
Excellent job of proving my point--you really don't get that E=mc^2 thing, do you?
(Based on your username and your post history, I get that you just post a lot of mindless one liners. I am just trying to play long. Btw, you're a bot, right?)
Sounds like something that might be documented somewhere. So a) you haven’t bothered to learn about what you paid good money for and
Yeah, that is the great thing about having your own money. If I want to buy a car and then casually drive and learn about the features, no one can stop me. If you feel so strongly about RTFM before getting in the car, why not get your own Tesla then? Owning your own Tesla is much more fun than complaining about how other's own theirs . . . trust me on this one.
b) you were driving around THINKING THAT YOUR FREAKING STEERING WHEEL WAS NOT PROPERLY INSTALLED, but weren’t too concerned.
You must have never driven a Tesla before . . . it definitely was not a "YOUR FREAKING STEERING WHEEL WAS NOT PROPERLY INSTALLED" type of feeling. Hard to explain it in words. . . you should at least test drive a Tesla and find out for yourself. . . I am confident you will become a more pleasant Anon poster, too, if you do so.
But hey, as long as you are having fun!
YES! The Model 3 is so fun to drive! But I think I am being redundant. . . Did I mention that the Model 3 is super fun to drive? Cause it is. . .
It’s not like anyone else is out there relying on you to know what the heck you are doing behind the (only a shade loose!) wheel.
This is my summary of events:
1) I unconsciously drift towards the lane line
2) Haptic feedback engages
3) My attention is brought to the wheel and road (did I run over some gravel or something? No? Weird. ..), in the process the drift is corrected.
This probably happened a grand total of twice over two months, so your conniption fit, though enjoyable to watch, is probably unwarranted. . . Additionally, compare that to now where I occasional purposely drift in order to marvel at the haptic feedback system. . . Which is safer? You decide (actually, go test drive a Tesla first 'cause I think your opinion on this matter is pretty irrelevant until you do. ..).
Anyway, my advice to you, my friend, is that you need to do less Slashdot Anon complaining and more Tesla driving. . . you will have a more enjoyable life that way. . . Stop living vicariously and angrily through others:p
So I am hitting 2 months with the Model 3 and must admit that the "newness" factor is really long lived with this car. For example, I had noticed that the steering wheel seemed to shake every once and a while. It did not seem like a serious "malfunction" but the other day I did Google the issue and realized I was really just experiencing haptic feedback for drifting out of my lane! Its these small, gradual and pleasant surprises that really make the car a lot of fun to own.
I must have been 3 when my family got me an Atari, and that was probably my first experience to an expansive and revolutionary new technology that seemed to grow along with its users. Consequently, it seems very fitting for Tesla cars to get Atari games.
The quality of your posts indicate that you likely lack the financial means to purchase either car. . . therefore, you also lack standing to have a serious and meaningful debate on this topic. I hope you live somewhere with decent public transportation. . .
Rei, all good points, but I think you are playing Chess against an Anon who was eating his own Checkers pieces. . .
My proof of this:
1) He does not think Tesla makes cash from selling cars. Here are the journal entries for my purchase:
Dr: Cash 56K
Cr: Revenue 56K
Dr: COGS 39K (based on this
Cr: Inventory 39K
Hey, look. The Cash account went up by $56K. . . they DO make cash when they sell a car. ..
2) He makes Tesla sound like a college student that partied too hard and is about to get cut off by his parents (perhaps he is projecting?). . . yeah, let's pay no attention to what they actually _used_ the investment funds for. ..
3) He seems to imply that Cash Flow From Financing Activities is some kind of dirty little secret. . . perhaps he is writing from North Korea where they don't have capitalism?
4) He inflicts us with some kind of Self-Righteousness-Fallacy.
5) He thinks that you inject _investors_ and not CASH into companies. ..
6) He thinks that companies need to "show continuous positive cash flow" (I assume he means "cash from from operating activities") . . . so I guess no more capitalism. . . nobody tell Jeff Bezos that his wealth is a complete lie. ..
Never mind, Rei. . . I can see how obliterating posts made by Checkers eating Anons can be fun. . . please carry on. ..
Slashdot Mirror
losing billions to sell thousands...
Yes, and $4B x 4 is $12B/year. So they are losing billion to sell BILLIONS (not "thousands").
Revenue growth is up - and so are costs, and the losses.
Yes, sacrificing profitability to increase market share might sound crazy, but it is business as usual in . . . business. For Tesla, it is a small price to pay to start dominating an entire segment of the car market. . .>, and its marketcap would tend to agree. . .
The business life cycle has existed as long as capitalism has existed. . .
Please read and correct your own post based on newly attained knowledge. Thank you.
Tesla has NEVER been profitable. Even though it's existed since 2003 doesn't necessarily make it mature either.
Yes, so you are agreeing with me that Tesla is in the "growth" stage of its business life cycle?
creating a cult of incredibly naive
I think "naive" people tend to write confusing posts where they seem to be both insult you and support your point at the same time. . . why not learn some basic finance before complaining about other people being naive?
people who believe they are going to save the planet by destroying the environment
I bought a Tesla because its a kickass car, and I love to effortlessly smoke old-timers like yourself when the light turns green. Saving the planet is a side benefit. . . and the fact that you think electric vehicles are destroying the planet shows that finance is not the only area of expertise that you are severely lacking in. . .
going to do to the market in general when reality finally hits and all those people are wiped out. Most will never invest in anything ever again nor trust honest executives.
So says the poster lacking even a remedial grasp of finance. . . Do tell. . . how does taking Tesla private "wipe out" investors?
losing billions to sell thousands... When does it stop?
The first "stop" occurs when you get your facts right. . . 2018Q2 Rev: $4B, Net Loss; $0.7B, YTD Rev growth:43%. Go find me a mature company that is always profitable that increased their revenues by 43% in the last year. . .
.).
The second "stop" occurs after Tesla goes private, and all the crazy short sellers go after some new victim (if they have not already killed themselves off after their bad bet against Tesla). At that point, you will have less public information to (mis)-inform yourself with, so your only reminder of how wrong you were at this point of your life will be steady and unrelenting electrification of the transportation system (with many Tesla logos passing by in your peripherals every where you go. .
The 3rd "stop" occurs after the electrification of the transportation market and the transition of the electrical grid to renewable energy sources backed with battery based storage. At this point, Tesla growth will have peaked, and it will now have to become another slow growing giant that no one ever posts about in forums like Slashdot. . .
You do realize that the entire basis for Wall Street (and capitalism) is that new, high growth wealth creation ideas initially require more funding than they can initially generate from their own operations, right? Ever heard the phrase, "it takes money to make money?" The vast majority of new forms of wealth creation require some form of initial "investment." Larger and longer periods of investment are correlated with higher expectations of growth and wealth creation.
But, specifically, which party is gaining wealth at the expense of which party in Tesla's case? Keep in mind, if Tesla goes private at $420 a share, everyone who has ever bought long and held to that point will realize a significant return. Where did that wealth come from? It was created turning boring, commodity materials into the best car I have ever owned.
Well, I think in the end, this is a cultural war between those in the wealth creation business (Elon Musk/Tesla) and those in the wealth transfer business (Wall Street). As far as Wall Street is concerned, the public CEO is there to serve them. When a public CEO does not act accordingly, the entire industry goes out for blood.
I have had Wall Street types find out I own a Tesla and go into some kind of rant of why the company is doomed, that "everyone I talk to is shorting them", and all their cars catch on fire. That is not normal "car" talk. That is crazy "they faked the moon landings" type shit. It is like the entire industry is acting like some kind of cult because a public CEO had the gall to stand up to them.
That is why I think Tesla should go private. Not because Elon Musk is crazy, but because Wall Street is. . .
This feels like a lifeguard going after kids for splashing. . . during a hurricane. . .
However, I do agree with the Musk critics that say he should not be the CEO of a public company. . . that is why Tesla needs to go private.
Let good engineers quietly build stuff (and occasionally vent on Twitter, without regulatory consequence) and the do-nothing CEO's of public companies continue do nothing and look good in the name of shareholder value.
I just want to drive their cars. . . the rest just seems like a silly distraction.
Funny. . . I think you are just jealous : )
Each time you respond, I am impressed by the additional effort you must put in as an AC to track this thread (how many refresh clicks did it require to read this?). Each response further strengthens my conviction that jealousy must be the driving factor for your rage posts . . .
By the way, where I drive, lane lines are textured to alert drivers that they are on the lane line. The haptic feedback definitely gets engaged before that point. So you are basically trying to make a silly point that approaching the lane line is dangerous. If you do not use the full lane to give other drivers who are hugging their own lane line or bike riders additional space, you are the dangerous driver. But, I am pretty sure the underlying issue is envy, so I have long given up on trying to have a rational debate on this subject with you.
At this point, this thread is about the grin it gives me every time the haptic feedback of my Tesla is engaged, and I am reminded of some ravenous Slashdot AC that could never come to terms with his own envy (and had a "Rain Man" like view of haptic feedback). Please never stop posting to this thread : )
Ok, ok. . .you are not a bot but some kind of grammar vigilante.
But I don't see now that your weakness is not the double negative. . . take that.
Well, you have basically endorsed the AC's post, and your /. profile says you are an editor by profession . . So yes, it appears I have tricked you into working for me for free.
Looks like you have had to trade some business acumen in order to gain some ability in linguistic pedantry = )
Agreed, but I think it would be very difficult due to American politics. A single-payer medical system would be much easier to implement and America is probably decades away (if even that) from ever considering that due to politics. . .
I think a more likely possibility is a network of fully autonomous cars that ends up looking a lot like passenger rail (except it runs on top of pavement instead of rails). Americans are a stubborn lot and are more likely to reinvent things than adopt what has worked elsewhere (e.g. gun control in Australia).
If you're experiencing lane departure warnings then you're a bad driver. If you're experiencing lane departure warnings and you don't know what they're for, then you're an accident waiting to happen.
So, if you are driving on an empty road, no cars to be seen, and you change lanes without signalling and without recognizing the reason your wheel is vibrating, 2 times over two months, you are an accident waiting open. . . Ok, I think I am getting an image of you when you cross the street.
However, what I think you are actually trying to say is: you are endorsing my Tesla purchase, as it will likely be the first car to get full autonomy and that I am extremely lucky to have survived my first two months of ownership and, now that I know about the haptic feedback, my likelihood of surviving long enough to be saved by Tesla's full autonomous driving functionality has increased significantly. Overall, a very positive future outlook, just like Tesla's. Thanks!
And German!
Bot: Bitte korrigieren Sie mein Russisch unten.
Perhaps, but I am not the one still posting as AC. At least my issues are out in the open where they can be addressed while you are viewing the world through a peephole. . . At least you are being more civil now. Perhaps my last post stroke a note, and you have realized that you cannot hide from your own actions?
Dear AC,
As an AC poster, I have no context to understand your post in respect to this thread. So I will respond more generally . . . Someone who lobs such vitriol from the safety of anonymity reflects a degree of cowardice that is self-betraying and only hurts the owner of said act. I could try to guess your motivations. . . perhaps this stems from a suppressed self-loathing and insecurity that you attempt to cover-up with hubris and arrogance towards others. Or, perhaps you have at some point of your life mistook skepticism and pessimism as the essence of intellect, and, as a result, you have scorched away all traces of hope from your mental model of the world. However, at the end of the day, these would only be projections of people that I actually know, and there is no way I could ever know they apply to you.
So, let me leave it at this. . . In the end, our small, insignificant lives are defined by the sum of our actions. Those during loud, life changing events and, those during quiet, otherwise routine moments. Your actions here are part of who you are. I truly hope that dark moments like these are not your proudest moments. Why else post as an AC? But, nevertheless, these actions still belong to you, and, consequently, define who you are. Anonymity may keep you safe from accountability to others, but it cannot save you from accountability to yourself. So my hope is that you will start to reflect during your darker moments like this and learn to do more in the light and less in the dark. Life is fleeting, and it is better to face the flames of tortured souls in the light than it is to join their ranks in the cowardice of the dark.
Ah, apparently you are a Russian bot!
Bot, correct Russian below.
Awesome. . . my post was apparently important enough for someone to volunteer to be my editor. Duly noted! Will make sure the edit gets into my published memoir version of the post. Thanks!
What amazes me is that you apparently drive so badly but haven't yet killed anyone.
How can you make that assumption (applies equally both to your bad driving assumption and haven't yet killed anyone assumption. . .)? Either way, guess you should be happy I got a Tesla that will soon be able to completely drive itself?
Excellent job of proving my point--you really don't get that E=mc^2 thing, do you?
(Based on your username and your post history, I get that you just post a lot of mindless one liners. I am just trying to play long. Btw, you're a bot, right?)
Sounds like something that might be documented somewhere. So a) you haven’t bothered to learn about what you paid good money for and
Yeah, that is the great thing about having your own money. If I want to buy a car and then casually drive and learn about the features, no one can stop me. If you feel so strongly about RTFM before getting in the car, why not get your own Tesla then? Owning your own Tesla is much more fun than complaining about how other's own theirs . . . trust me on this one.
b) you were driving around THINKING THAT YOUR FREAKING STEERING WHEEL WAS NOT PROPERLY INSTALLED, but weren’t too concerned.
You must have never driven a Tesla before . . . it definitely was not a "YOUR FREAKING STEERING WHEEL WAS NOT PROPERLY INSTALLED" type of feeling. Hard to explain it in words. . . you should at least test drive a Tesla and find out for yourself. . . I am confident you will become a more pleasant Anon poster, too, if you do so.
But hey, as long as you are having fun!
YES! The Model 3 is so fun to drive! But I think I am being redundant. . . Did I mention that the Model 3 is super fun to drive? Cause it is. . .
It’s not like anyone else is out there relying on you to know what the heck you are doing behind the (only a shade loose!) wheel.
This is my summary of events: .), in the process the drift is corrected.
.).
:p
1) I unconsciously drift towards the lane line
2) Haptic feedback engages
3) My attention is brought to the wheel and road (did I run over some gravel or something? No? Weird. .
This probably happened a grand total of twice over two months, so your conniption fit, though enjoyable to watch, is probably unwarranted. . . Additionally, compare that to now where I occasional purposely drift in order to marvel at the haptic feedback system. . . Which is safer? You decide (actually, go test drive a Tesla first 'cause I think your opinion on this matter is pretty irrelevant until you do. .
Anyway, my advice to you, my friend, is that you need to do less Slashdot Anon complaining and more Tesla driving. . . you will have a more enjoyable life that way. . . Stop living vicariously and angrily through others
So I am hitting 2 months with the Model 3 and must admit that the "newness" factor is really long lived with this car. For example, I had noticed that the steering wheel seemed to shake every once and a while. It did not seem like a serious "malfunction" but the other day I did Google the issue and realized I was really just experiencing haptic feedback for drifting out of my lane! Its these small, gradual and pleasant surprises that really make the car a lot of fun to own.
I must have been 3 when my family got me an Atari, and that was probably my first experience to an expansive and revolutionary new technology that seemed to grow along with its users. Consequently, it seems very fitting for Tesla cars to get Atari games.
Great, what car do you drive? Why not debate with facts and add value to the Internet rather than fill it up with more shit?
The quality of your posts indicate that you likely lack the financial means to purchase either car. . . therefore, you also lack standing to have a serious and meaningful debate on this topic. I hope you live somewhere with decent public transportation. . .
Rei, all good points, but I think you are playing Chess against an Anon who was eating his own Checkers pieces. . .
. . . .
.
My proof of this:
1) He does not think Tesla makes cash from selling cars. Here are the journal entries for my purchase:
Dr: Cash 56K
Cr: Revenue 56K
Dr: COGS 39K (based on this
Cr: Inventory 39K
Hey, look. The Cash account went up by $56K. . . they DO make cash when they sell a car. .
2) He makes Tesla sound like a college student that partied too hard and is about to get cut off by his parents (perhaps he is projecting?). . . yeah, let's pay no attention to what they actually _used_ the investment funds for. .
3) He seems to imply that Cash Flow From Financing Activities is some kind of dirty little secret. . . perhaps he is writing from North Korea where they don't have capitalism?
4) He inflicts us with some kind of Self-Righteousness-Fallacy.
5) He thinks that you inject _investors_ and not CASH into companies. .
6) He thinks that companies need to "show continuous positive cash flow" (I assume he means "cash from from operating activities") . . . so I guess no more capitalism. . . nobody tell Jeff Bezos that his wealth is a complete lie. .
Never mind, Rei. . . I can see how obliterating posts made by Checkers eating Anons can be fun. . . please carry on. .
That's a shit post. . . why not offer a car that you think is better and then we can have a meaningful debate. . . ?