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Elon Musk Calls Boss of Tesla Troll Who's Heavily Invested In Oil Industry (electrek.co)
Okian Warrior shares a report from Electrek, written by Fred Lambert: One of Tesla's biggest anonymous trolls/shorts has been doxxed as an investment manager heavily invested in the oil industry. He has now deleted his Twitter account, which he used to promote his blog posts about Tesla and attack anyone saying anything that could be perceived as positive on Tesla, after Tesla CEO Elon Musk reportedly called his boss to complain about his behavior.
We are talking about "Montana Skeptic" who has been using Seeking Alpha, a financial blog aggregator, and Twitter to push the bear case on Tesla for the past 3 years. Hiding behind his anonymous persona on social media, Montana Skeptic went beyond just pushing the bear case. He also used the platforms to send insults and attacks to Tesla bulls, bloggers, YouTubers, and reporters discussing anything that he saw as potentially being positive for Tesla, including [this author] on numerous occasions to the point where I had to block him. But now that his real identity has been revealed to be Larry Fossi, a managing director at Rahr Enterprise, which is reportedly heavily invested in oil, we learn that his motivations could have originated from other reasons.
We are talking about "Montana Skeptic" who has been using Seeking Alpha, a financial blog aggregator, and Twitter to push the bear case on Tesla for the past 3 years. Hiding behind his anonymous persona on social media, Montana Skeptic went beyond just pushing the bear case. He also used the platforms to send insults and attacks to Tesla bulls, bloggers, YouTubers, and reporters discussing anything that he saw as potentially being positive for Tesla, including [this author] on numerous occasions to the point where I had to block him. But now that his real identity has been revealed to be Larry Fossi, a managing director at Rahr Enterprise, which is reportedly heavily invested in oil, we learn that his motivations could have originated from other reasons.
Go Tesla!
1) Montana Skeptic has (via intermediaries) presented two entirely different scenarios for why he left Twitter. One was that he was just leaving to spend more time focused on his investments, and it had nothing to do with outside pressure. The other is that Musk called his boss and his boss made him quit. Given his penchant for spinning conspiracy theories... take whichever one you want with a grain of salt.
2) There's a heavy dose of irony, in that just a few days ago Montana Skeptic was part of the troll attacks against Pulitzer-prize winning auto journalist Dan Neil (mad that he wrote a glowing review of the Model 3 in the Wall Street Journal) which ultimately led to Dan deleting his twitter account. He wrote a gloating post after they succeeded, which is kind of funny in light of recent events.
3) Fun Fact: Fossi (aka Montana Skeptic)'s employer is Stewart Rahl - a guy often described as Trump's only true friend, inflappably loyal. His office is in Trump Tower, two floors below Trump's.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Always examine the hidden agenda.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
most people are... musk is remarkably human.
Be aware that Montana Skeptic - famous for spinning conspiracy theories about Tesla and Musk that turn out not to be true - has given two conflicting explanations for why he deleted his Twitter account. In one of them, it had nothing to do with Musk, and in the other, it's all evil Elon's fault.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
That it is not a Russian or Chinese agent. Though to be fair, there is no reason for Russia/China to continue attacking America. The far right/left do their work for them.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Musk and Tesla fans - OK, I'm a Tesla fan (nice cars and I WANT the company to succeed!) - but I am also a critic. Not a short and I hope not a Troll.
Why?
Criticism is INPUT - it tells one that something is wrong.
I have an accounting background and auto industry experience. There is NO need to explain to ME about the problems with incumbent automakers.
However, I have read many of Montana Skeptic's articles-propaganda and he did in fact point out things that I have found. Tesla DOES in fact have many problems that even Elon has addressed.
My point is that ...instead of crucifying him, maybe learn from some of his Trolls. See, Trolls wouldn't be so effective if there wasn't some truth to them.
And I like to point out that I am heavily invested in Tesla and I DO like to understand and keep track of my investments. To preserve one's capital, one needs to hear bad news. Dreams are great - until they hit your savings.
That's all I got to say about that here. I think I toed the line too much as a "hater".
Doxxing is not cool. I don't care if the guy is the world's biggest liar and jerk. Ignore him or prove him wrong, don't call his boss. Sheesh.
I guess this is why you shouldn't treat random twat's tweets as news or good advice.
Tesla has been hit with a torrent of fake news recently, trying to drive the stock down.
Most obviously and recently was the following:
1) Someone (not Tesla) posted that 23% of Tesla reservations have been cancelled.
2) Based on #1, an analyst downgraded the stock from "hold" to "underperform".
3) Tesla stock plummeted
4) Tesla notices #1 above and responded:
Dunno where this bs is coming from. Who knows about the future, but last week we had over 2000 S/X and 5000 Model 3 *new* net orders. — Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 20, 2018
(Note: Tesla makes about 6,000 cars/month, so an increase of 7000 cars puts them even further behind on reservations. And as noted in the link below, they have not started showing them in stores yet, so Tesla has yet to tap the "drive before they buy" potential pool of customers.)
Word on the street is that shorts are running scared, doing everything they can to drive down the stock price. Including insider sabotage, misleading financial spin, and online harassment such as the OP.
This is basically the last-ditch effort of Tesla bears to drive the stock down. Once the next two quarters financials are in, there will be no case for shorting Tesla stock whatsoever.
It really is an amazing car. . . I feel like a requirement to short the stock is one of the following:
1) You have never test driven a Model 3
2) You are a shill for some competing industry/company
Yes, I am sure there is some kind of "rational" intrinsic valuation argument out there for shorting the stock, but, at the end of the day, Tesla makes cash from selling cars, not stock. . . and their latest car is amazing. They will sell as many as they can make at the current price point. If they manage to get the price down (which tends to happen at high volume), no army of Montana Skeptic shills will be able to save the oil industry from having to write-off huge portions of their fixed assets. . . Buckle-up and get ready for a crazy ride. . .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
But what does that tell us about the anonymous online troll, Okian Warrior, aka, Thomas Alexander Schnell.
Not cool, man.
Get your 15 minutes, be there for the vulture swarm.
It's clear in this world of misinformation and "fake news" that proof does nothing. That the only way to get an anonymous agent to stop spreading lies is to lift the veil of anonymity.
If someone wishes to criticize, they can either do so carefully and anonymously with cold hard facts. Or they can express their unsupported opinions openly and publicly. There is no middle ground.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
That's great you found "fake news" about Tesla.
How about all the glowing "articles" about Tesla over the last 8 years since it went public?
Are ALL of those good articles the "truth" because they are positive?
Have you ever heard of "pump and dump"?
Look at Tesla's valuation. There is no possible way that it could ever be profitable enough to warrant such a valuation. Ever.
Why is negative news "Trolls" and because of the "Shorts" and all the positive news is the "Truth"?
I've had enough economics to see an information disparity and profit opportunity here.
Or did some admin with his own agenda just give it up for free?
Someone else made a valid point about disclosing biases, so here is mine: I own Tesla stock, and I'm "long" on it.
I originally wanted to do some study of the stock market, and I purchased the stock to make the study "valuable" to me.
That turned out to be a lucky choice because Tesla is the hurricane eye of controversial stock market reporting. It's the perfect test case for deciding whether stock market news reports, statistics, and opinions have any informational value.
In any event, be aware that I own some shares and have an interest in seeing Tesla succeed.
The fantastically written headline actually says Elon Musk calls himself a Troll that is heavily invested in the Oil Industry
English, it's not just for Christmas!
So I just read that Tesla asked for refunds from dealers in order to cover their debts. I suppose this is a lie as well?
That's not a lie, but it's a skewed interpretation of what actually happened.
Without posting my own explanation (which also might be skewed), do some digging into what actually happened, find a copy of the letter actually sent, and decide for yourself whether it's of any importance.
Thanks - Good catch.
It's a trolloff; may the trolliest troll win! Gentlemen, start your flames!
Table-ized A.I.
And they called me crazy when I said these people were just mad because they were losing money due to Tesla stock not crashing.
This guy, Montana Skeptic was out in full force trying to down Tesla stock and bolster Oil stocks. He is a manager of a hedge fund. Isn't that manipulating the market? SEC?
See also, politicians who are virulent homophobes in public but are themselves gay in private.
Your boy is hurting my feelings, waaaa. Musk is such a pussy bitch, fucking die already.
Back in 2009/2010 I followed daily why the barrel price would change. I would just use google new searching for oil, barrel price, etc. The articles written for the price change most often than not would have a bs feel like they may not tell the whole story. Once instance the price went fast at the beginning of the day because the oil supplies at the refineries had dropped, then turned right around and dropped below the start of the day due to the fact that the refineries were producing heating oil to be ready for the coming winter, a normal part of the business. About a week later the price went up again because it was report the supply last week dropped, without mentioning the logical reason why. Another instance the price of the barrel was regularly going up because the supplies were decreasing in December. The stated reason was likely because of demand. I finally found an article pointing out there used (not sure if still the case) be inventory tax on oil at the end of December. My better understanding of the market, I see the investors with a clue like how they can predictably make money from oil. That is why some don't like Tesla
More likely, having not spoken to a sound attorney, he's blowing smoke. If the SEC does get involved, there may be a lot of smoke, the scent of pants on fire, and lots of subsequent litigation.
Nut cases have a habit of digging in deeper, when they should be looking for cover. Obsessed, they carry on even as noose gets tighter.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Seriously. What the hell is that?
"Elon Musk Calls Boss of Tesla Troll Who's Heavily Invested In Oil Industry"
"calls the boss"
"calls up boss"
"phones boss"
"Elon Musk Phones the Boss of Heavily Oil-Invested Tesla Troll"
People calling Montana Skeptic a troll don't know the definition of a troll. Educate yourself. Skeptic's analysis has been far more objective and fact-filled than anything the bulls have had to offer. One should question why all some can do is label him a troll instead of arguing his points.
History has shown that the conman of the business world have attempted to scapegoat short sellers for the destruction caused by their frauds. See Enron.
We sit people like this down on the curb and break their knee caps. But he deserves worse.
Unheard of. What will be next, Putin buying US politicians?
A Model 3 was in the local showroom here in New Jersey last week and I sat in it and played with the console. It was not there when I test drove the S model a few weeks earlier. At that time a customers Model 3 was in the back lot to be prepped for delivery. So, your statement that they have not shown up in "stores" yet is incorrect. This is a recently opened "Service Center" near where I live. I did place an order for a Model 3.
That's spelled CEO, FYI. A lot of CEOs are.
So assuming that the person behind the troll accounts was an investment broker or fund manager and he was trying to undermine Tesla's stock performance for his own gain, report it to the goddamn SEC, don't call the person's boss. That's just petty and juvenile. Assuming it's true Musk called the guy's boss. Musk is really his own worst enemy right now with his aggressive actions against anyone who dares say anything that isn't dripping with praise for Tesla, some of his other erratic behaviors of late, and now this.
For the good of his companies, he should step down as the CEO and let someone else handle the day-to-day operations of the company. He can stay on as chairman of the board to help set broad policies, and then maybe just go back to working as an engineer or coming up with new product ideas.
Yes, he is human, and the workload may be getting to him. He's put an awful lot on his plate, juggling many balls in the air. I hope he takes a vay-cay away from his stressors soon, or I'm afraid that he might break. He's a good man who's under a lot of pressure right now. I hope we don't lose him.
Yea his boss has reminded him of how many SEC violations he made over 3 years, and he left a papertrail on the internet with his Twitter account. Deleting it wont help because Twitter archives peoples accounts for a period of time afterwards for legal backtracking. Larry is about to get screwed and his company is about have the shiznit load of fines for violating insider trading rules. Larry might even cop some jail time for being an idiot for that long.
You were thrust upon yourself? You poor bastard!
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Larry is not hated like Shkreli was. He will get a suspended sentence.
So, if I'm parsing that headline correctly:
Elon Musk called the boss of Tesla a "troll who's heavily invested in the oil industry".
Cool story.
Let me just look up who the boss of Tesla is... ...oh
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Those who talk either don't know, or are talking their book. Tesla is the most shorted stock in the market. I'm sure you can figure out the rest...
Why guess when you can know? Measure!
"Bear case"? "Bulls"? I feel like I'm sitting at a table, drinking fancy, pretentious brands of whiskey with a bunch of douche bag stock traders.
sig: sauer
Except Tesla itself is the reason the stock will tank . Instead of hiring experts in manufacturing and slowly ramp up production. Musk sets piebin the sky goals and then uses overtime to try to meet goals . Tesla will be bankrupt or absorbed by another company within 2 years . I own a model s and wife has a model x .
Making claims is not illegal . Getting inside info is . If he is running his mouth he is free in the clear . The standard is to inform that you own or short the stock . Eve are no threat to oil companies for at least 30 years .
You lie and cheat here all the time WindBourne. Why are you anit-cheat now? Just because your hero Musky is involved?
The origin is to 'produce documents on somebody', it has come to mean to reveal the public identity of an anonymous poster.
Manipulating stock market through spreading FUD is entirely legal. It's only illegal if you have privileged internal information.
It took me some time to parse it to "Elon Musk Calls (Boss of ((Tesla Troll) Who's Heavily Invested In Oil Industry)". Or is the Boss the one who's heavily invested? Like I said, train wreck
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
The troll may not be directly involved in Tesla. He may not directly hold shorts on Tesla, and his trolling may be driven by his position on oil. Or at least, he may be far enough away from any direct involvement to be able to hide it!
The behavior of an employee - especially an executive employee - affects the company. If a company allows that behavior to continue after they become aware of it, it can be argued that they are acting on the company's behalf, and the company can become liable. I'm sure the investment firm has skin in this game, so the SEC could come after them - and they can no long argue that they didn't know what the troll was doing.
I see a call to the CEO as a low pressure first step, especially in such high stakes games as this.
Oh, and I see the calls to oust Elon from the CEO role as part of the shorts (and industry) attack on Tesla. They know that Elon and his vision is a large part of Tesla's value.
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
Almost as bad as the "pedo guy" comment, even if he did finally come to his senses and apologize.
I've engaged with several of the most opinionated SeekingAlpha contributors who paint doom & gloom for Tesla and Montana Skeptic was by far the most cautious and reasonable one even if he was derisive of the cars and the overall plan.
As an experienced commercial lawyer, I imagine he felt that Musk was rushing headlong too quickly and accumulating too much debt to ever be profitable with Chapter 11 restructuring.
He was always clear in his articles that shorting Tesla is a dangerous game for the faint of heart and the foolhardy and that his own shorts were only by long-dated puts, early 2020 if memory serves.
There were other shorts who claim to have made fortunes shorting Tesla like frequent SA comment poster NYC1965 who claims to have made over 1/2 a million shorting Tesla.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
The big "Ace in the hole" Tesla has over everyone else is their extensive Supercharging network. You can drive a Tesla on a road trip, even if you're going into parts of Mexico or Canada from the U.S., and the GPS automatically routes you to the Supercharging stations along the route, as needed, to keep you going.
With everyone else, you're relying on a hodge-podge network of mostly slower charging stations that make you sign up for accounts with each of them, in order to activate the charger and pay for it. I don't think the traditional auto-makers can really compete, even IF they build a superior EV to Tesla's offerings, unless they solve that problem -- building out their own fast charging networks that allow free charging (at least up to a certain amount per year).
What insider trading? Surely he didn't have any inside information about Tesla did he? Are you referring to some other investments?
12 pages of search results on fluffernutter complaining about Tesla on slashdot.
"Doesnt Tesla record everything? if there was convincing evidence of that, Musk would be publicising it." ... etc etc.
"You're absolutely right, no one should be enabling 'Autopilot' in a Tesla, ever, because it goes against defensive driving techniques."
"Tesla said in a previous article that autopilot had done this route 85,000 times. I guess repetition doesn't necessarily mean success here. Big surprise."
"This all just sounds so freaking complicated. EV owners insist it is simple, but it almost seems like sea travel by compass and sextant."
Sighs of relief from the White House.
I propose a coining a new term. Tesla Derangement Syndrome. This boy is kray kray craaazy. Tesla haters, is this dude your spokesman?
While not explicitly insider trading (as I understand it), it seems dubious and borderline to, for example, short a stock/tell your company to short a stock while knowing that a smear piece of negative press is about to hit the internet in the next day (which you wrote).
While it may not be as surefire as shorting it in advance when you know the quarterly report is going to be worse than expected, once you gain a certain level of influence in the public eye, your posts ARE going to push the stock when they land. It would, for example, seem dubious if Trump sold a bunch of Exxon stock and then the next day announced that his administration was going to "seriously look" at cutting subsidies for oil drilling.
Don't laugh, but Congress and the Executive branch are explicitly exempt from the insider trading rules. There's a law stating just that.
what could be useful here is that once SEC gets involved with Skeptic, others such as Chanos will likely be looked into as well.
making false claims i.e. lying, to manipulate a stock IS illegal. And yes, if you do it a few times, SEC will not care. M. Skeptic constantly lied and was feeding the lies to the media. Likely the Media will get hands slapped, but Skeptic was actually making up stuff. If he does not have insider info, and he did not, then SEC should nail him.
15 years ago everyone hated faggots. Today if your not gay, you need to go to back to school to be re-indoctrinated.
50 years ago 98% of people did not approve of interracial marriages. Today if a white person has not sucked 15 dicks of a different color than you own by the age of 19, you are a racist.
Times change. One thing is certain is that your children will call you a monster for believing whatever it is you believe today. Now lets pile on the Musk hatred bandwagon with the same fervor that we all loved Must 2 weeks ago.
There is no truth. There is just a collective societal norm that we call reality. Today Musk is an evil. Society says it is so, so it is so.
Oh hi. Harry Fossil, was it?
Seriously, what rocks have you been living under?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
manipulating the market isn't illegal in itself. Only certain methods of doing it are, e.g. using insider information, releasing fake news to drive prices up or down etc. Publishing opinions no matter how biased or self interested is not illegal (though unethical).
While I prize what little anonymity I have, I realize there are people who abuse such things.
And in a case like this, I'm kinda glad the truth came out.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
and hopefully Musk as well. Though I suspect the SEC has probably already had a word with him about some of his tweets which could easily have been prosecuted for market manipulation.
Did you need a forklift or a crane to move the goalposts that far Windy?
“Negotiation is a standard part of the procurement process, and now that we’re in a stronger position with Model 3 production ramping, it is a good time to improve our competitive advantage in this area. We’re focused on reaching a more sustainable long term cost basis, not just finding one-time reductions for this quarter, and that’s good for Tesla, our shareholders, and our suppliers who will also benefit from our increasing production volume and future growth opportunities. We asked fewer than 10 suppliers for a reduction in total capex project spend for long-term projects that began in 2016 but are still not complete, and any changes with these suppliers would improve our future cash flows, but not impact our ability to achieve profitability in Q3. The remainder of our discussions with suppliers are entirely focused on future parts price and design or process changes that will help us lower fundamental costs rather than prior period adjustments of capex projects. This is the right thing to do.”
"We asked fewer than 10 suppliers for a reduction in total capex project spend for long-term projects that began in 2016 but are still not complete"
I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.
Being able of grossing people out becomes more powerful as the world becomes smaller through communication and you drive your opponents away through social media.
There is a reason Trump is president.
> Oh hi. Harry Fossil, was it?
No, according to the summary, Fossi, not Fossil.
I think I just trolled a troll who was trolling a troll.
You actually think the pro business government will actually do anything?
Cute
most people are... musk is remarkably human.
The idea of sharing a planet with 7 billion Musky South African STEMlords sounds considerably worse than hell to me, so let us not rush to adopt your definition of humanity.
Trump will die in prison!
You don't get to the top of a big company without being a douchebag every once in a while. Of course you are so perfect.
ROFL.. that was a truly awful troll attempt
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Slashdot Editor Yet Again Fails To Comprehend Simple English Sentence Structure Making It Read Like A Retard Wrote It
Which means cannot be "flapped"whilst inflappably means the opposite of flappable, whatever you could take that to mean.
There's this thing called "stock manipulation" too. I'm pretty sure he'd get done for that.
To be defamed he has to be harmed finaicially and lose job or prospects from it. Since the only job he could be harmed for was cave rescue and his antics were ALSO sufficient to cause him professional problems, he has NO CASE for defamation.
How do _I_ know? I'm a goddam fucking bondholder that was thrust upon me!! I know more than YOU! Cunt!
You don't even know what electricity is.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Are you that much of a retard and violently against "leftie greenwashing" Musk that you cannot read? No, he wasn't comparing them he was showing by taking to the logical extreme how the claim"you said you were doing it, so you're fine" is bollocks.
Oh, and yes, you CAN compare them to war crimes: Spreading FUD to engage in stock market fraud is nothing like committing a war crime. There you go: compared. Or are you going to whinge and piss and moan that you can't call what the anti-musk trolls are doing nothing like war crimes????
Fucking moron.
He wanted to gin up fear loanthing and hate for Tesla stock and Musk so that people would all repeat the bad stories. He was 100% a troll. He was trolling for financial gain and for his job's revenue. But he was a troll trolling.
I mean by its very nature, someone shorting a stock now has a vested interest in making that come to fruition.
You often lie in an attempt to discredit fellow posters. Why is that ok?
evil troll who has his asset where his mouth is... in oil... also prolly some sort of future position of tesla failing to meet expectations yet again...
Except Tesla itself is the reason the stock will tank
You were responding to a "yes or no" question; I'm afraid the correct response was not "Choice 'C' - Change of Subject*"
You know... if you hadn't posted as AC, you would've gotten a mod point just for participating!
Tesla has no dealers, so yeah, it is a lie.
Tesla dealers
Or, are YOU saying that Elon Musk is the liar?
I thought you had to disclose your position, long or short, too, though...?
FWIW, if I have any Tesla stock it's in some managed account or mutual fund that I've never read the prospectus for. I do get random papers and emails all the time but I just trash that crap because I don't understand a word of it.
1. You own a stock that has a market price of over 300/share but LOSES about $12/share a year.
2. Do you honestly think that in a very saturated auto market that Tesla is going to take it by storm? It hasn't yet.
3. If the Model 3 was going to be such a blockbuster then why aren't the reservations in the millions?
4. On my brokerage site (Fidelity) Tesla has a 1.6 rating from analysts - Bearish.
5. There's too much hype with Tesla.
Dude, I've been in the stock market going on 50 years now and it's been a long time since I've seen such hype about a company. ANY company.
People have these growth expectations that are beyond possibility for Tesla. It's great to be excited about something, but watch out. Whatever you have in Tesla, just make sure that if it does go bust, you're not SOL with retirement or savings.
And as far as Rei and other Tesla fans here....I don't know what they're playing at (Pump and Dump?) but remember the realities of finance and business always come to roost. And Tesla is not a self sustaining company.
It constantly needs cash infusions and everyone I know has doubts about Musk's assertion that it won't need more.
I've seen too many good people get crushed by things like this.
I hope I'm wrong.
Your entire argument is "One day, Tesla is going to be really profitable!"
People have been saying that for 15 years now. LOL!
Model S and X sales peak at 80,000.
Model 3 reservations fell from 400,000+ to 373,000. If it were going to so successful, it'd be in the millions.
And Tesla power systems is flailing around .....
Tesla and Amazon are in a price bubble. 10 years of cheap money from central banks ....
the bulls profited, and both the stupid and smart bears lost.
Ahahahaha,, never confuse brains with a bull market!
You should do standup Rei!
It's also why the regular car companies have been fighting electric tooth and nail, ...
GM had a decent EV in the 1990 but it only sold 500,000 units in one year. Wasn't worth it for them. However, there is a VERY nice EV in the works - I'm gonna get one when it comes out!
The other automakers aren't fighting anything. EVs are a money losing business - see Tesla for Christ's sake! And none of you here understand the difference between cash flows from operations and cash flows from investing activities - like CAPEX. Tesla has lost and is losing BILLIONS from operations: salaries, utilities, insurance, and other overhead.
And I want to point out that many of us critics WANT to see Tesla succeed but are frustrated with Musk's incompetence as a CEO and manager.
He needs to step down and get someone who knows how to make cars.
And that asshole stunt he pulled with the analysts on the conference call last quarter...WTF! Dodging legitimate questions about finances is something that people like Bernie Madoff pulled.
Wow, long-dated puts?
Tesla has a relatively liquid equity option market, but the long-dated puts are a fairly dumb way to make a directional bet on the company, at least in my opinion. Credit default swaps would be much more reasonable, even if the are trading at 700bps.
(Professional hedge fund guy with no particular opinion about Tesla)
... seems like this is a pretty open and shut case of deliberate libel/slander.
Given that they alleged perpetrators are rich banker types motivated purely by greed, a jury is likely to award gigantic punitive damages on top of any real damages that Tesla can demonstrate.
Pretty please Tesla. We little people can't fight the ruling class -- and lord knows the government won't, especially now -- so please put them in their place.
And Musk will pay for that stupid outburst. That's accountability. Hiding behind an anonymous account, not revealing the conflict that arises from your business interests when attacking another company, that is the opposite of accountability.
Nope. The cult of Musk denies it and they rationalize it away.
See every goddamn +5 post above - THEY are the guilty.
Responding to a tweet referencing The Journal article, Tesla CEO Elon Musk clarified on social media, "Only costs that actually apply to Q3 & beyond will be counted. It would not be correct to apply historical cost savings to current quarter."
When asked for comment a Tesla spokesperson sent the following statement:
"Negotiation is a standard part of the procurement process, and now that we’re in a stronger position with Model 3 production ramping, it is a good time to improve our competitive advantage in this area. We’re focused on reaching a more sustainable long term cost basis, not just finding one-time reductions for this quarter, and that’s good for Tesla, our shareholders, and our suppliers who will also benefit from our increasing production volume and future growth opportunities. We asked fewer than 10 suppliers for a reduction in total capex project spend for long-term projects that began in 2016 but are still not complete, and any changes with these suppliers would improve our future cash flows, but not impact our ability to achieve profitability in Q3. The remainder of our discussions with suppliers are entirely focused on future parts price and design or process changes that will help us lower fundamental costs rather than prior period adjustments of capex projects. This is the right thing to do."
You're the most prolific liar on here Windy, the only thing you do other than spread lies after lies, is call other people liars.
" it seems dubious and borderline to, for example, short a stock/tell your company to short a stock while knowing that a smear piece of negative press is about to hit the internet in the next day "
There's a name for it, although it's usually done in the opposite direction:
"Pump and dump"
I'm not connected to Tesla in any way and I don't have shares in the company. In this case I just happened to read an article on CNN and then saw a Slashdot comment directly refuting it so I asked if it was true. Then people got very, very defensive.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
is anonymity something that should be protected? is it a fundamental part of our society? I draw a distinction between anonymity and privacy.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
If someone wishes to criticize, they can either do so carefully and anonymously with cold hard facts. Or they can express their unsupported opinions openly and publicly. There is no middle ground.
I guess I'm trying to say that you don't get to fabricate lies and troll while retaining your anonymity. Or at least nobody is going to have sympathy when you're exposed.
Those two statements overlap, they do not conflict, and I've not walked back my position with the second statement.
If you disagree with the opinions I have expressed, that's fine. If you wish to fling ad hominem and inflammatory comments, that says more about you personally than about your opinions on the topic at hand.
Use your precious time to understand, contribute, and even reject bad ideas. It's a piss poor use of your time to shit on anything that you can't grasp or don't care about.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
gods rapture end of days wont let it happen