I'd dearly love to see G5s as commonplace as x86s (tranlation - I want one, and I want it cheap), but being able to plonk a machine in the top-10 list really doesn't lead to that at all. At various points in time DEC (Compaq/HPaq) had more than _half_ of the top-10, and look how popular the Alpha became.
This is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard in a long time.
Debian have been slowly losing it over the last few years, and I can now find almost nothing to recommend them to others, which was something that I used to do a lot in the past.
The next machine's 10 screws from completed. I'll be sticking Gentoo on it...
""" But as for it being a comprimise beteween different output formats... Well, ya. Thats kinda the whole point. """
You misunderstand - I mean it's a hotch-potch of different styles, and half of the list types clash with half of the other tags as they were injected into the standard by some big OS project that wanted lists just so. Someone else wanted a family of admonitions, and they have a different look to them. Someone else wanted to have BNF grammers just-so, and that style clashes with the other text. All of this is of course just the default rendering options, and in theory should be customisable. As you say - it's not DocBook that's really to blame it's the stuff that's been stuck on the side and its documentation.
I need to change my disty to testing, but I'll pull down xmlto, and see if I can throw off some of my ati-DocBook feelings.
That program looks like it's the dogs bollocks! I've been tearing my hair out regarding viruses filling my yahoo mailboxes recently, and this will cure everything, as I can run this in a cron-job, and just robo-trash the junk!
DocBook SUCKS. However, it's probably the best thing out there for the job.
The problem with DocBook might also be considered its strength - basically it was designed by a committee, and evolved several humps. Each influential party behind it pushed the features that they wanted to see into it. Each individual feature set is a pretty good coherent package which will let you create documents just like [insert-project-name-here]'s own documentation - pretty neat! However, the different feature sets clash _horribly_, and if you pick and chose beween them you'll end up with an inside-out baboon. (And to be honest I've not discovered _any_ feature that the various admonitions don't look out-of-place near with! Most of the list types are pretty, erm, special too.)
I've just taken on the role of producing documentation for a small OpenSource project, and I came _very_ close to regretting my choice of DocBook. However, once you've decided what coherent subset of the features you actually need, you'll probably end up with something that looks OK in all formats.
(I was using the default Debian Jade configuration, perhaps I could tweak some of the stylesheets to look less quirky.)
Don't look at me, I didn't make the not-particularly-wisecrack. I simply shed some light on why some people (not me) might find it amusing. I agree it's the geek equivalent of beavis and butthead, but hey, some people like that kind of thing.
""" As a CS major at Harvey Mudd College (one of the most technology-oriented colleges in the country)... Prolog, for example, cannot be written in Java - it requires assembler. """
I find lynx ugly and clumsy (I'm probably too stupid to work out how to reconfigure all the keys), and if given the choice I browse using w3m instead. W3m's particularly cool when run in an xterm or rxvt or similar.
"links" is prettier than lynx too, IMHO (i.e. lynx is really at the bottom of the heap for me), but is similarly unintuitive to drive.
My girlfriend swears by lynx, for what it's worth (I swear _at_ it!).
Don't you think that "does lots of stuff" and "runs a single process" are different things?
I do lots of stuff, but I'm not a monolithinc kernel, for example.
Do you have any books, references, or lecture notes to justify the view that "does lots of stuff" means "runs as a single process"? Thought not.
So seriously - no it is not.
And microkernels can theoretically be faster in SMP situations, as the different kernel services can run independently with uniprocessor affinities. But get the affinities wrong and you can make the SMP as bad as a uniprocessor microkernel setup and worse than any monolithic setup due to the reasons you state.
I just hink that if people are going to try to give explanations that the explanations should be meaningful. I feel "does loads of stuff" is a gross miscategorisation of what monolithic kernels are. The fact that the post was trying to correct something that was way way way more bizarre didn't help. It was 100 times nearer the mark than the "one author" implication, but still missed, IMNSHO.
""" Being "owned" only lasts as long as it takes you to notice that all is not well and disconnect from the internet, as far as other people are concerned. You still have to reboot from CD, restore your/usr hierarchy and change your root password, of course, before you're properly good to go. """
So being owned only lasts as long as it takes to notice that you're owned, and then you pretty much need to do reinstall of the OS. And in what way is that different from the Windows world?
(md5sums on a floppy boot setup can minimise the number of things you actually need to reinstall, but often it's just quicker to reinstall from scratch, particularly if restoring clones.)
""" Outlook viruses propagate through the inherently unsafe practice of executing unknown binaries without the user's knowledge or consent. If you're going to run any binary you did not compile, of course it should be signed. """
And explain how the linux kernel prevents an email client from executing an executable or script that's attached to a mail? Answer - it can't. It's up to the email client (i.e. user mode code) to make sure that it only does the kinds of things that no users would be perturbed by. Linux users are perturbed by more things than Windows users, it appears, but that doesn't mean it's Linux that is providing the security; it just means that linux users tend to be more chosy about the features that they want in the software they use.
And if I trust your signiture does that mean I should trust everything that comes out of your inbox? What intrinsic feature of the linux kernel prevents a trojaned email client signing trojaned executables with your signiture on? Answer - there is no such feature, nor could there be. So _again_ it's not linux that's making the system more secure.
You seem to have a very narrow view of what the possible threat models are.
Well said, and for quick answer/response stuff, have an IRC channel too. Where I last worked lots was done on NNTP, but the quickest way to get in contact with a sysadmin (e.g. "why can I no longer ping the test lab from my desk?") was to hop off onto IRC.
"Uh, a 'monolithic kernel' is a kernel that handles a lot of stuff, not a kernel developed by only one person"
Uh, no it's not.
"In any case, this code was added after the server hosting it was hacked. And no development model will save you from insertion of malicious code if you can't rely on the security of your host machines."
True, but I don't see Linus' tree being compromised. Linus even said that he'd have spotted these changes as they tried to be updated onto his machine.
This was a belt, braces and safety-pins setup, and only the safety-pins broke.
Worse of all, some weren't even "defects", they were features. Bubble-boy and the other execute-script-on-preview viruses - scripting = feature. preview = feature. All the MSWord Macro viruses - macro language = feature.
"the most damage a virus could do would be to compromise one user's filespace"
And the rest.
The most damage a (linux) virus could do would be to compromise one user's filespace, append new tasks to the end of that user's/var/spool/cron/crontab/ file, insert new lines in the user's.*shrc files, set up an alias such that 'sudo' doesn't run/usr/bin/sudo and runs a password-capturing script instead (mailing/irc-ing it back to home base of course), and, having access to the user's/var/mail and ~/mail files, pretending to be the user and mail itself to a million other security-clueless linux wannabees.
i.e. same old story but with s/windows/linux/g and a few filenames changed.
i.e. you're fucked, still, in linux, if there's any remote exploit at any privilege level, or if you're stupid enough to execute anything that's not signed (including any scripting languages that don't run in a tight sandbox).
And remember, when you say "back up anything important into superuser filespace" that would involve running 'sudo' or similar. Are you sure you know which 'sudo' you're running when you type your precious password in? Wait, did I see a blip on your hub after you pressed return? Oh dear, too late, it only takes 1/100th of a second to log in as you, sudo as you, and install a rootkit.
You're owned.
"but I'm on linux," you wail, "this shouldn't happen".
From what I can see, which is mostly speculation, he, via CREN, is in Microsoft's pockets.
I.e. he's a MS sock-puppet amd as such is just a fucking worm, and an insult to Princeton's reputation.
I've dumped all the scant evidence I can trawl into an investigative journalist's in-tray, I'm hoping that he can drag up some more shit and actually prove there's some real pocket-lining going on.
No. Page rank has a few small holes that can be _massively_ exploited. You're no hacker if you aren't trying to work out what the heuristics are that tells billy-human a page is just a google-honeypot instantly, but google is _presently_ too stupid to see as such. You're being blinded by the massive exploitation, but that doesn't mean the holes are massive.
I'm looking forward to Page Rank mark 2, certainly. However, like lions and gazelles, there will probably need to be a mark 3 after that...
It means that all the customers of that ISP can sit back and know that they won't have their netblocks blacklisted. Cornering them is the next best thing to actually purging the net of them.
Telia is now "TeliaSonera", after merging with the Finnish company Sonera. This anti-spam move is not just in Sweden, it's in Finland too.
ISPs must provide a QOS in Finland, and Sonera were fined recently (last few weeks) for being unable to deliver mail as they were so bogged down with spam.
So they're not doing it for altruistic reasons, they're doing it because it costs them big-time if they don't. I'm still glad they're doing it though.
All of this was filtered from stories in the Helsingin Sanomat via my "doesn't speak Finnish" brain, so may be not quite true. (HS had suffered because of the Sonera e-mail problems, I remember, so they had a particular bias (anti-spam, not anti-Sonera) in their report).
Slashdot Mirror
I'd dearly love to see G5s as commonplace as x86s (tranlation - I want one, and I want it cheap), but being able to plonk a machine in the top-10 list really doesn't lead to that at all. At various points in time DEC (Compaq/HPaq) had more than _half_ of the top-10, and look how popular the Alpha became.
YAW.
This is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard in a long time.
Debian have been slowly losing it over the last few years, and I can now find almost nothing to recommend them to others, which was something that I used to do a lot in the past.
The next machine's 10 screws from completed. I'll be sticking Gentoo on it...
YAW.
"""
But as for it being a comprimise beteween different output formats... Well, ya. Thats kinda the whole point.
"""
You misunderstand - I mean it's a hotch-potch of different styles, and half of the list types clash with half of the other tags as they were injected into the standard by some big OS project that wanted lists just so. Someone else wanted a family of admonitions, and they have a different look to them. Someone else wanted to have BNF grammers just-so, and that style clashes with the other text.
All of this is of course just the default rendering options, and in theory should be customisable. As you say - it's not DocBook that's really to blame it's the stuff that's been stuck on the side and its documentation.
I need to change my disty to testing, but I'll pull down xmlto, and see if I can throw off some of my ati-DocBook feelings.
Thanks for the recommendation of it.
YAW.
That program looks like it's the dogs bollocks! I've been tearing my hair out regarding viruses filling my yahoo mailboxes recently, and this will cure everything, as I can run this in a cron-job, and just robo-trash the junk!
Thanks!
YAW
DocBook SUCKS. However, it's probably the best thing out there for the job.
The problem with DocBook might also be considered its strength - basically it was designed by a committee, and evolved several humps. Each influential party behind it pushed the features that they wanted to see into it. Each individual feature set is a pretty good coherent package which will let you create documents just like [insert-project-name-here]'s own documentation - pretty neat! However, the different feature sets clash _horribly_, and if you pick and chose beween them you'll end up with an inside-out baboon.
(And to be honest I've not discovered _any_ feature that the various admonitions don't look out-of-place near with! Most of the list types are pretty, erm, special too.)
I've just taken on the role of producing documentation for a small OpenSource project, and I came _very_ close to regretting my choice of DocBook. However, once you've decided what coherent subset of the features you actually need, you'll probably end up with something that looks OK in all formats.
(I was using the default Debian Jade configuration, perhaps I could tweak some of the stylesheets to look less quirky.)
YAW.
You say:
"""
I also use a nice prog called fetchmailyahoo
"""
google says:
"""
Your search - fetchmailyahoo - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing "fetchmailyahoo".
"""
Are you sure that's the name?
YAW.
Don't look at me, I didn't make the not-particularly-wisecrack. I simply shed some light on why some people (not me) might find it amusing. I agree it's the geek equivalent of beavis and butthead, but hey, some people like that kind of thing.
i.e. Hehehhe, he said 2600, ehehehe.
YAW.
""" ...
As a CS major at Harvey Mudd College (one of the most technology-oriented colleges in the country)
Prolog, for example, cannot be written in Java - it requires assembler.
"""
You're going to fail.
-1 Bullshit
YAW.
I find lynx ugly and clumsy (I'm probably too stupid to work out how to reconfigure all the keys), and if given the choice I browse using w3m instead. W3m's particularly cool when run in an xterm or rxvt or similar.
"links" is prettier than lynx too, IMHO (i.e. lynx is really at the bottom of the heap for me), but is similarly unintuitive to drive.
My girlfriend swears by lynx, for what it's worth (I swear _at_ it!).
YAW.
Don't you think that "does lots of stuff" and "runs a single process" are different things?
I do lots of stuff, but I'm not a monolithinc kernel, for example.
Do you have any books, references, or lecture notes to justify the view that "does lots of stuff" means "runs as a single process"? Thought not.
So seriously - no it is not.
And microkernels can theoretically be faster in SMP situations, as the different kernel services can run independently with uniprocessor affinities. But get the affinities wrong and you can make the SMP as bad as a uniprocessor microkernel setup and worse than any monolithic setup due to the reasons you state.
I just hink that if people are going to try to give explanations that the explanations should be meaningful. I feel "does loads of stuff" is a gross miscategorisation of what monolithic kernels are.
The fact that the post was trying to correct something that was way way way more bizarre didn't help. It was 100 times nearer the mark than the "one author" implication, but still missed, IMNSHO.
YAW.
I think it's called a joke.
I think you're supposed to laugh.
If you don't know that 2600 is a "magic number", then of course you wouldn't get it. However, that puts you in serious "newb" territory.
YAW.
""" /usr hierarchy and change your root password, of course, before you're properly good to go.
Being "owned" only lasts as long as it takes you to notice that all is not well and disconnect from the internet, as far as other people are concerned. You still have to reboot from CD, restore your
"""
So being owned only lasts as long as it takes to notice that you're owned, and then you pretty much need to do reinstall of the OS.
And in what way is that different from the Windows world?
(md5sums on a floppy boot setup can minimise the number of things you actually need to reinstall, but often it's just quicker to reinstall from scratch, particularly if restoring clones.)
"""
Outlook viruses propagate through the inherently unsafe practice of executing unknown binaries without the user's knowledge or consent. If you're going to run any binary you did not compile, of course it should be signed.
"""
And explain how the linux kernel prevents an email client from executing an executable or script that's attached to a mail?
Answer - it can't. It's up to the email client (i.e. user mode
code) to make sure that it only does the kinds of things that no users would be perturbed by. Linux users are perturbed by more things than Windows users, it appears, but that doesn't mean it's Linux that is providing the security; it just means that linux users tend to be more chosy about the features that they want
in the software they use.
And if I trust your signiture does that mean I should trust everything that comes out of your inbox? What intrinsic feature of the linux kernel prevents a trojaned email client signing trojaned executables with your signiture on? Answer - there is no such feature, nor could there be. So _again_ it's not linux that's making the system more secure.
You seem to have a very narrow view of what the possible threat models are.
YAW.
Well said, and for quick answer/response stuff, have an IRC channel too. Where I last worked lots was done on NNTP, but the quickest way to get in contact with a sysadmin (e.g. "why can I no longer ping the test lab from my desk?") was to hop off onto IRC.
YAW.
They have error checking, they just found it useless. It just spent the whole day going. ...
Check.
Check.
Check.
Check.
YAW.
Kinda-sorta. It can add privelege escalation to a prior remote unprivileged arbirary-code execution exploit.
Say that when you're pissed.
YAW.
Nonsense, you're talkin out of your arse.
The brackets are necessary to even get the thing to compile as the precedence of '=' is below that of the logical operators.
bash-2.05a$ cat > test.c
int foo() {
extern int x,y,z;
if(x>y && z=0) x=y;
}
bash-2.05a$ gcc test.c
test.c: In function `foo':
test.c:3: invalid lvalue in assignment
YAW.
"Uh, a 'monolithic kernel' is a kernel that handles a lot of stuff, not a kernel developed by only one person"
Uh, no it's not.
"In any case, this code was added after the server hosting it was hacked. And no development model will save you from insertion of malicious code if you can't rely on the security of your host machines."
True, but I don't see Linus' tree being compromised. Linus even said that he'd have spotted these changes as they tried to be
updated onto his machine.
This was a belt, braces and safety-pins setup, and only the safety-pins broke.
Phil
?? 2600 as the build number perhaps?
If so, that's either subtle or lame.
If not, then it's too too subtle for me.
Then again, I don't know what a windows command prompt is supposed to look like.
YAW.
Worse of all, some weren't even "defects", they were features.
Bubble-boy and the other execute-script-on-preview viruses - scripting = feature. preview = feature.
All the MSWord Macro viruses - macro language = feature.
YAW.
"the most damage a virus could do would be to compromise one user's filespace"
/var/spool/cron/crontab/ file, insert new lines in the user's .*shrc files, set up an alias such that 'sudo' doesn't run /usr/bin/sudo and runs a password-capturing script instead (mailing/irc-ing it back to home base of course), and, having access to the user's /var/mail and ~/mail files, pretending to be the user and mail itself to a million other security-clueless linux wannabees.
And the rest.
The most damage a (linux) virus could do would be to compromise one user's filespace, append new tasks to the end of that user's
i.e. same old story but with s/windows/linux/g and a few filenames changed.
i.e. you're fucked, still, in linux, if there's any remote exploit at any privilege level, or if you're stupid enough to execute anything that's not signed (including any scripting languages that don't run in a tight sandbox).
And remember, when you say
"back up anything important into superuser filespace"
that would involve running 'sudo' or similar. Are you sure you know which 'sudo' you're running when you type your precious password in? Wait, did I see a blip on your hub after you pressed return?
Oh dear, too late, it only takes 1/100th of a second to log in as you, sudo as you, and install a rootkit.
You're owned.
"but I'm on linux," you wail, "this shouldn't happen".
Contented? Good for you. Keep smiling.
YAW.
From what I can see, which is mostly speculation, he, via CREN, is in Microsoft's pockets.
I.e. he's a MS sock-puppet amd as such is just a fucking worm,
and an insult to Princeton's reputation.
I've dumped all the scant evidence I can trawl into an
investigative journalist's in-tray, I'm hoping that he
can drag up some more shit and actually prove there's
some real pocket-lining going on.
YAW.
No. Page rank has a few small holes that can be _massively_ exploited. You're no hacker if you aren't trying to work out
what the heuristics are that tells billy-human a page is just a google-honeypot instantly, but google is _presently_ too
stupid to see as such. You're being blinded by the massive
exploitation, but that doesn't mean the holes are massive.
I'm looking forward to Page Rank mark 2, certainly.
However, like lions and gazelles, there will probably need to be a mark 3 after that...
YAW.
3 might make you a publisher in some coutries, and therefore responsible for all content that you serve, such as kiddie-pron and illegal MP3s.
YAW
It means that all the customers of that ISP can sit back and know that they won't have their netblocks blacklisted.
Cornering them is the next best thing to actually purging the net of them.
YAW.
Telia is now "TeliaSonera", after merging with the Finnish company Sonera. This anti-spam move is not just in Sweden, it's in Finland too.
ISPs must provide a QOS in Finland, and Sonera were fined recently (last few weeks) for being unable to deliver mail as they were so bogged down with spam.
So they're not doing it for altruistic reasons, they're doing it because it costs them big-time if they don't. I'm still glad they're doing it though.
All of this was filtered from stories in the Helsingin Sanomat
via my "doesn't speak Finnish" brain, so may be not quite true.
(HS had suffered because of the Sonera e-mail problems, I remember, so they had a particular bias (anti-spam, not anti-Sonera) in
their report).
Anyway - agreed. Period.
YAW.