I know this is "offtopic" but stay with me and I'll bring it around on-topic...
A big question that people are throwing Billions of dollars & millions of internet comments about is "How can we get more women into programming/coding?"
Ok...b/c our industry is by default very complex, it's not unreasonable that to really drill down to an answer to that question might be fairly complex...the answer can be summarized, sure, but to really get at the problem it involves learning a bit.
Here, in this thread, we find out why...and it affects us **all** not just woman coders, or coders...it affects how the whole company works and the perception of value...witness:
Why do you assume all warnings are useful?? Some of the compiler warnings are just pedantic and are "noise" such as "variable declared but not used", etc.
There is a balance between no warnings and pedantic warnings, namely the useful ones.
One of the things that's nice about the Eclipse IDE is that you can select the importance of selected messages, all the way from "ignore" to "fatal", depending on shop standards and personal paranoia.
However, the offline builders such as Maven and Ant cannot adopt those preferences, so it's not uncommon for a production build to spit out dozens or hundreds of warnings about things that don't actually matter.
Working with C/C++ I almost never had clean builds, since even....
Here we have a central thesis:
"There is a balance between no warnings and pedantic warnings, namely the useful ones."
Parent agrees, and describes how using a **proprietary software** (Eclipse) which adds an **extra abstraction layer** to an already ridiculous process...a process which we all know theoretically should be able to be done on a text editor
the fact that coding, the act of developing, software engineering, the 'real work' has such obtuse solutions, solutions to problems based on...
PEDANTIC choices...overkill...the lack of discretion...there are many reasons for this but that's another rant
it's alienating to new people regardless of gender...the only reason many people work jobs as coders is **for the money**
until we address these fundamental issues, the problems that arise only because some compiler programmer was overly pedantic due to lack of empathy skills will destroy any attempt to get non-traditional types into coding
right now, you basically have to be a bit autistic, or be able to think that way on command, in order to code...part of it is genetic, but part of it is deliberate...you have to train your mind to think in a "code" instruction manner...why would a woman do all this given other options?
the solution to pedantic, tone-deaf coding choices is, of course, a fresh perspective that can help get rid of problems from abstractions...
we need women in coding to help make coding more appealing to women
so, to make this on-topic, I think **more women in coding** is a long-term solution to problems in TFA
hardcore socialists complaining about the theory that a rising tide lifts all boats (ie: Export wealth properly and everyone will benefit)
I know many "hardcore socialists" personally, and read/watch several public figures who are "hardcore socialists" in various media...and NONE make the argument you claim they make
no one says that
except GOP trolls creating a straw man...you're a GOP troll, trying to create a straw man
You would rather the unemployed remain so, rather than get a job, however little the pay?
that's a dumb dichotomy and it shows the weakness of your position
obviously, in a perfect world we wouldn't need any remediations...we'd all ***rather*** not have the problem at all
the minimum wage is the same as anti-trust laws...it plugs a hole in capitalism...just as a mononpoly is the antithesis of free market competition, so is it harmful when companies monopolize the factors of employment
we need anti-trust laws for the same reason we need minimum wage laws: unchecked corporate greed
i'm asking Lessig about the reasons for his choice
Because this issue directly effects those issues and many more. this issue is actually at the heart of the problem for much of them.
statistically all social ills and bad outcomes are predicted by any number of things, household income, school services, etc
the idea that ***campaign finance reform*** is the central issue has been around for a long time...no one in this discussion is the first to advocate strongly for campaign fincance reform
name any issue...there is surely someone who's PhD thesis hinges on a certain factor being true...for that same issue there is also most likely a group/non-profit that things that **that issue** is the key issue
you know that in political lobbying, everyone thinks their issue is the lynchpin, right?
there's a better way to allocate resources...that's what my question is asking
My question is about timing and resource allocation: With all the problems in America right now, why did you feel that campaign finance reform was the one issue of many (civil rights, immigration, American poverty, health care, etc.) that deserves this huge P.R. and money push now?
yeah, when I said "dutch nazis" I was meaning americans who have Dutch ancestory...many are nazis who were one of a large family chosen to go to America...sort of upper middle class colonialism
they retain alot of the ideological similarities with nazis, and some still directly profit from ill gotten gains
as to people who current live in The Netherlands, I have no cause to call them "nazis"
the Dutch are not citizens...like the English, CAnadians, and others they are ***subjects*** of royalty
Aristocracy is still alive and well behind a veneer of democratic bodies
your comment is insightful and I agree with this part very much:
the argument that says you have to have a vibrant Twitter presence and go to local programmer meetups to be a coder today is, quite frankly, hogwash. It's about the code, friend.
It isindeed about the code...that's why this statement is off-kilter
Maybe it boils down to testosterone.
see, 'testosterone' isnt some magic "bro juice"...it causes you to have serious "non-bro" problems like bitch tits if you don't *****balance it with estrogen****** and other hormones
it's a balance and our industry is ****OFF BALANCE*****
It's about the code, friend
have you seen code?
so many coding languages are ridiculously illogical, made with duct tape and peanut shells, hacked with other languages
it's a mess
it's alienating to someone who is used to, say, turning a screwdriver and always knowing what will happen with that tool when used
learning coding has evolved to become a Dungeons & Dragons-style death march
you *litterally* have to become borderline autistic to code properly
why, why would anyone choose to enter such a profession?
My question: What do you think of the evolution of video games *since* Pac-Man and that sort of golden era of arcade and Atari gaming? Do you think changes in gamers's expectations for difficulty and entertainment from the games have changed?
tech for a purpose rather than a purpose looking for technology.
well said!
i've been searching for the right phrase to describe the Occulus Rift hype
*this* is the *first* slashdot story I've seen that warrants any attention...on the battlefield, injuries are random and chaotic, blood everywhere, pieces just missing...you cant train for that with a blow-up doll...so good for whoever thought of this application
i hate how our industry works...so many problems to solve, yet the money follows the hype
wow, I'm a bit surprised that a few other/.'ers have tried checking up on "jody williams"
I still think "jody williams" is a paid commentor, based primarily on the Twitter account...freinds, posts, followers, following...all indicate a fake profile
thanks for the interest everyone...paid commetors are a major problem on/.
if you've been around here for awhile, you know that b/c of/.'s chosen font, the capital "I" and lowercase "l" look virtually identical
scammers use this similarity to create several profiles that appear to be the same name, but vary a capital "I" and lowercase "l"
"jody williams" would be great for that
one correction, the other Paid Commentor I encountered was not "jody williams" but a different "jody" with a similar twitter profile
it was the super-high user# and the twitter accounts of both "jodys" that tells me these are Paid Commentors
Don't worry bro, your check is probably in the mail.
let's see it!
show me the money!
i'm going to have to contradict your theory...see, I set my hair on fire on these/. boards gratis
call me crazy (again) but I actually think what I"m saying is right...and I may be abrasive but I'll always return kindness w/ kindness and discuss anything as long as it's an honest conversation
I can't wait for Google Fiber to come in. I'd switch in a heartbeat, just out of principal.
practically unanimous across Stumptown I'd say...Centurylink's cheapest tier works fine for me but I don't do a lot of web work...will have to get bigger pipes eventually
i honestly don't care about Google, in the end...it's about infrastructure and competition
no matter what happens, Portland will have a decent *real* 21st century infrastructure which will allow our businesses to grow faster
also, b/c of competition like you said, it will lower our rates for everything and get others to invest in their own infrastructure
Slashdot Mirror
I know this is "offtopic" but stay with me and I'll bring it around on-topic...
A big question that people are throwing Billions of dollars & millions of internet comments about is "How can we get more women into programming/coding?"
Ok...b/c our industry is by default very complex, it's not unreasonable that to really drill down to an answer to that question might be fairly complex...the answer can be summarized, sure, but to really get at the problem it involves learning a bit.
Here, in this thread, we find out why...and it affects us **all** not just woman coders, or coders...it affects how the whole company works and the perception of value...witness:
Here we have a central thesis:
"There is a balance between no warnings and pedantic warnings, namely the useful ones."
Parent agrees, and describes how using a **proprietary software** (Eclipse) which adds an **extra abstraction layer** to an already ridiculous process...a process which we all know theoretically should be able to be done on a text editor
the fact that coding, the act of developing, software engineering, the 'real work' has such obtuse solutions, solutions to problems based on...
PEDANTIC choices...overkill...the lack of discretion...there are many reasons for this but that's another rant
it's alienating to new people regardless of gender...the only reason many people work jobs as coders is **for the money**
until we address these fundamental issues, the problems that arise only because some compiler programmer was overly pedantic due to lack of empathy skills will destroy any attempt to get non-traditional types into coding
right now, you basically have to be a bit autistic, or be able to think that way on command, in order to code...part of it is genetic, but part of it is deliberate...you have to train your mind to think in a "code" instruction manner...why would a woman do all this given other options?
the solution to pedantic, tone-deaf coding choices is, of course, a fresh perspective that can help get rid of problems from abstractions...
we need women in coding to help make coding more appealing to women
so, to make this on-topic, I think **more women in coding** is a long-term solution to problems in TFA
if you were interested in actual discussion, you'd point out at what time in the video he does as you say...
maybe even...gasp...**put a quotation from the video**
but you just typed bullshit b/c you're trolling...not trying to foster actual discussion
i was astounded at the idiocy of your attempt at logic
the fact that you made a statement this faulty means further conversation is pointless
which doesn't matter at all
the problem is unchecked corporate greed...that's what drives all of this
I know many "hardcore socialists" personally, and read/watch several public figures who are "hardcore socialists" in various media...and NONE make the argument you claim they make
no one says that
except GOP trolls creating a straw man...you're a GOP troll, trying to create a straw man
that's a dumb dichotomy and it shows the weakness of your position
obviously, in a perfect world we wouldn't need any remediations...we'd all ***rather*** not have the problem at all
the minimum wage is the same as anti-trust laws...it plugs a hole in capitalism...just as a mononpoly is the antithesis of free market competition, so is it harmful when companies monopolize the factors of employment
we need anti-trust laws for the same reason we need minimum wage laws: unchecked corporate greed
C.R.E.A.M.
that's a Wu Tang Clan song...it stands for "Cash Rules Everything Around Me"
***everyone knows*** that more money gets you what you want in most cases
***saying that adds nothing to the conversation***
my question is legit and its obvious you have an axe to grind...
that TED talk doesn't address my question
Microsoft is desperate.
How can you tell?
Let's reverse this...can you imagine if Apple gave a similar $$ discount on Macbook Air & iPads in trade for a Microsoft Surface?
bummed out x-mas gift recipients would line up around the corner!
i'm asking Lessig about the reasons for his choice
statistically all social ills and bad outcomes are predicted by any number of things, household income, school services, etc
the idea that ***campaign finance reform*** is the central issue has been around for a long time...no one in this discussion is the first to advocate strongly for campaign fincance reform
name any issue...there is surely someone who's PhD thesis hinges on a certain factor being true...for that same issue there is also most likely a group/non-profit that things that **that issue** is the key issue
you know that in political lobbying, everyone thinks their issue is the lynchpin, right?
there's a better way to allocate resources...that's what my question is asking
insert whatever issue you want...those are examples
you can troll/nitpick any list of things...the point is the question...why this of all the options?
Mr. Lessig, thanks for taking the time.
My question is about timing and resource allocation: With all the problems in America right now, why did you feel that campaign finance reform was the one issue of many (civil rights, immigration, American poverty, health care, etc.) that deserves this huge P.R. and money push now?
yeah, when I said "dutch nazis" I was meaning americans who have Dutch ancestory...many are nazis who were one of a large family chosen to go to America...sort of upper middle class colonialism
they retain alot of the ideological similarities with nazis, and some still directly profit from ill gotten gains
as to people who current live in The Netherlands, I have no cause to call them "nazis"
the Dutch are not citizens...like the English, CAnadians, and others they are ***subjects*** of royalty
Aristocracy is still alive and well behind a veneer of democratic bodies
sure that's fine, you're not a bro
i'm talking about scale...i don't care about *1* language made by a women...that's nothing
i want to see cadres of women programmers...actual **coders**
they'd definitely spruce up the place and make things interesting
dutch nazis, and other quasi-nazis are surely behind alot of BS in America....for sure...wont' argue that point
I guess I applaud this law, however I *want* the authorities, with proper warrant, to be able to access any digital/analog communication
if you were the victim you'd expect it
your comment is insightful and I agree with this part very much:
It isindeed about the code...that's why this statement is off-kilter
see, 'testosterone' isnt some magic "bro juice"...it causes you to have serious "non-bro" problems like bitch tits if you don't *****balance it with estrogen****** and other hormones
it's a balance and our industry is ****OFF BALANCE*****
It's about the code, friend
have you seen code?
so many coding languages are ridiculously illogical, made with duct tape and peanut shells, hacked with other languages
it's a mess
it's alienating to someone who is used to, say, turning a screwdriver and always knowing what will happen with that tool when used
learning coding has evolved to become a Dungeons & Dragons-style death march
you *litterally* have to become borderline autistic to code properly
why, why would anyone choose to enter such a profession?
our industry is *built* to alienate women
we need them to help cut through the bullshit
I think your false equivalence transcends logic
**OF COURSE** it's true that **ANYONE** any political persuasion or 'party' can "troll"
no.
when trolls are GOP trolls you **call out the GOP troll** because their **ideas** are detrimental to profitable discussion.
if it's the opposite, call it out in the appropriate manner.
GOP trolls exist, and must be publicly shamed
Thanks for taking the time, Mr. Mitchell!
My question: What do you think of the evolution of video games *since* Pac-Man and that sort of golden era of arcade and Atari gaming? Do you think changes in gamers's expectations for difficulty and entertainment from the games have changed?
this is a GOP troll
no one I know, have ever met, or have ever read or watched has *ever* used this logic
progrssives/liberals who are anti-war do not use this kind of rhetoric, ever anywhere
by this logic, anyone who gets into banking must be doing so in order to evict/foreclose on familes
well said!
i've been searching for the right phrase to describe the Occulus Rift hype
*this* is the *first* slashdot story I've seen that warrants any attention...on the battlefield, injuries are random and chaotic, blood everywhere, pieces just missing...you cant train for that with a blow-up doll...so good for whoever thought of this application
i hate how our industry works...so many problems to solve, yet the money follows the hype
wow, I'm a bit surprised that a few other /.'ers have tried checking up on "jody williams"
I still think "jody williams" is a paid commentor, based primarily on the Twitter account...freinds, posts, followers, following...all indicate a fake profile
thanks for the interest everyone...paid commetors are a major problem on /.
if you've been around here for awhile, you know that b/c of /.'s chosen font, the capital "I" and lowercase "l" look virtually identical
scammers use this similarity to create several profiles that appear to be the same name, but vary a capital "I" and lowercase "l"
"jody williams" would be great for that
one correction, the other Paid Commentor I encountered was not "jody williams" but a different "jody" with a similar twitter profile
it was the super-high user# and the twitter accounts of both "jodys" that tells me these are Paid Commentors
let's see it!
show me the money!
i'm going to have to contradict your theory...see, I set my hair on fire on these /. boards gratis
call me crazy (again) but I actually think what I"m saying is right...and I may be abrasive but I'll always return kindness w/ kindness and discuss anything as long as it's an honest conversation
practically unanimous across Stumptown I'd say...Centurylink's cheapest tier works fine for me but I don't do a lot of web work...will have to get bigger pipes eventually
i honestly don't care about Google, in the end...it's about infrastructure and competition
no matter what happens, Portland will have a decent *real* 21st century infrastructure which will allow our businesses to grow faster
also, b/c of competition like you said, it will lower our rates for everything and get others to invest in their own infrastructure
you're a paid PR commentor, Jody Williams...
I saw your other "Jody Williams" account that uses a google plus login
I bet you feel pretty good when you get upmodded...
you're getting paid while all us tech professionals post our thoughts to /. for free!
we're such suckers!
virtually *none* in Portland city proper...most don't have a "TV"
Most have ADSL and no TV cable...they watch over the air or via internet
I'm not talking suburbs...I'm talking inner Portland
*everyone* would get DSL or fiber **if they could afford it**