You just said they find it a chore to translate the documents and request the data to Google US and, instead, they are opting to strong-arm Google BR into, most probably, violating US laws by giving away said data.
And if threatening Google BR, who cannot comply with an order because the data belongs to Google US, who cannot disclose that data until it's properly requested is not to cut corners, I don't know what it is. As much as I am uncomfortable with gangs, pedophiles and drug-dealers using Orkut, I know there must be a proper way. A judge holding a baseball bat does not make it legitimate as a judge ordering me to count to infinity would not make it possible or reasonable. Google BR cannot give something it doesn't have and should not be threatened this way. And, may I remind you, this show would not be happening if it weren't for the upcoming elections. This is politics at its worst. At least no presidential candidate chose to be directly involved with this. For now.
But the show is not the most important part. The more interesting issue is, indeed, one of jurisdiction. If the servers are located in the US and a Brazilian law was broken by material posted on the server, did the poster commit a crime in Brazil by posting it in the US-based server or is the material posted in the US-based server protected as free-speech?
The outcome of this dispute may define other disputes as well. Imagine, for a moment, if it wasn't for anti-black/homo/Muslim/Jew/whatever material, but something we can be more sympathetic with. Imagine if Orkut's forums were being used for organizing manifestations against Fidel Castro in Havana or in Caracas against Hugo Chavez. Imagine a government that requests access logs from Amnesty International accusing their visitors of whatever "spreading propaganda" crime is convenient. This dispute will draw a line and we will have to live with it for some time. Once drawn, it will be damn hard to move. While I do have a great deal of trust in Brazilian institutions, I have spent my first years under a dictatorship and watching Chavez (who was elected, twice) trying to amend their Constitution to allow him a third term gives me shivers. Call me paranoid, but I can trust my government, but not blindly.
And since I suspect no one else is reading this thread, we may continue this discussion in Portuguese.
If there is any non-Portuguese-speaking netizen reading this, now is the time to tell us.
I know that many crimes (aggression based on racism and religious intolerance, drug-dealing and pedophilia) are being committed in Brazil. Yet, the mountain of evidence that resides within Google servers is subject to US laws and disclosing it without proper authorization probably is a crime.
After investigating, cataloging and summarizing the alleged crimes, I can't understand why is it a chore to ask for the data directly from Google through US authorities instead of strong-arming the local office (during an election year) - the volume of paper (or bytes) is roughly the same and we have a very skilled professionals whose job is to deal with thorny issues like this one. IIRC, the Brazilian Feds have a couple of cooperation programs with the FBI that could come in handy, if proper channels are to be used.
And, BTW, about the alleged crimes that fall under US law on freedom of expression, I totally against Google providing the requested data. Regardless of the language the ideas are being expressed, they are being expressed using a computer under US jurisdiction, so, there may be lots of racist, stupid, neo-nazi and homophobic discourse, fully protected under US law. As the article says (sorry about those who can't read Portuguese), the creation of communities to spread racist and homophobic ideas is a crime in Brazil. I do not agree with those ideas, but I am not comfortable on having someone to draw a line between what I can think and say and what I can't.
Law-enforcement in a wired world where crimes are committed in cyberspace and geography is unclear is tough and we must create the mechanisms to deal with it, but this is not Google's fault.
I see the problem as Brazilian authorities appear to be refusing to follow proper conduct. I agree that if the servers are in the US, then the laws that apply to those crimes is the US law and Brazilian authorities have no jurisdiction.
I think it should be solved, instead, by the Foreign Relations Office, that could forward the request either to Google itself or to the local authorities - I am not sure if it would be the FBI or the DOJ. Both would be more than happy to help and, IIRC, they could even ask - and be granted - extradition of non-Brazilian citizens to the US so they could be prosecuted there. This is, of course, about the child-porn problems. Speech is more protected in the US, so, it should be safe to use a US-based server to express illegal opinions about such things as racism or neo-nazis. The server is in the US, so Brazilian laws should not apply. Not that I approve racism or neo-nazis - it's a matter of jurisdiction.
OTOH, I am quite sure any employee of the Brazilian Google office that could have access to the requested data would be committing a crime in wherever-in-the-US the servers are by giving the requested information without proper authorization to foreign (from the server point-of-view) authorities and would face possible arrest upon setting foot on the US.
As it is configured now, it looks more like a pissing contest between Google and the Brazilian authorities. I side with Google, in that the data is not under Brazilian jurisdiction and Brazilian authorities are refusing to follow proper procedures for the case.
I see the problem as Brazilian authorities appear to be refusing to follow proper conduct. I agree that if the servers are in the US, then the laws that apply to those crimes is the US law and Brazilian authorities have no jurisdiction.
I think it should be solved, instead, by the Foreign Relations Office, that could forward the request either to Google itself or to the local authorities - I am not sure if it would be the FBI or the DOJ. Both would be more than happy to help and, IIRC, they could even ask - and be granted - extradition of non-Brazilian citizens to the US so they could be prosecuted there. This is, of course, about the child-porn problems. Speech is more protected in the US, so, it should be safe to use a US-based server to express illegal opinions about such things as racism or neo-nazis. The server is in the US, so Brazilian laws should not apply. Not that I approve racism or neo-nazis - it's a matter of jurisdiction.
OTOH, I am quite sure any employee of the Brazilian Google office that could have access to the requested data would be committing a crime in wherever-in-the-US the servers are by giving the requested information without proper authorization to foreign (from the server point-of-view) authorities and would face possible arrest upon setting foot on the US.
As it is configured now, it looks more like a pissing contest between Google and the Brazilian authorities. I side with Google, in that the data is not under Brazilian jurisdiction and Brazilian authorities are refusing to follow proper procedures for the case.
I know they have done their math, but it sure looks unable to generate enough drag. Picture gallery was down when they got slashdotted. I will try again tomorrow
The goal of the terrorists is to spread fear in order to change your behavior and create social pressures with it. As far as it goes, they are succeeding quite well.
And I would also not discard US government goals to erode as much civil rights as possible under the cloak of anti-terrorism. Anti-terrorism and anti-Islamism seems to be the anti-communism of the 21st century.
Species that cannot adapt to environmental change can be replaced or altered. We are no longer bound to mutation and natural selection - we can take evolution in our hands. We evolved our own corn, chicken, cows and dogs well before we knew what genes were. I suppose we could do much better now.
Yet, as anyone familiar with Australia will tell you, we must think a lot before we do introduce a new life form into the environment. Life tends to grow out of control once you release it.
Well... I regard relativity as very uncomfortable. That speed-of-light limit makes the universe boringly big and all the interesting places to go are, at best, centuries away;-)
OTOH, for the traveler, time dilation can be helpful, as it's like hitting fast-forwarding for the most boring part of the trip. Trouble is it's hitting fast-forward for the trip, but for all of the rest of the universe.
So, as far as relativity got it right, no Star Trek for us. This is bad.;-)
I am still waiting for that Heim/Alcubierre drive.
<script type="text/javascript">
capitalSpan = document.getElementById("capital");
populationSpan = document.getElementById("population");
var state = "Michigan";
var capital = httpGet("http://192.168.2.3/query.php?capitalOf=" + state, HTTP.TRYNOTTOCLOSEITRIGHTNOW);
capitalSpan.innerHTML= " The capital of " + state + " is "+ capital +"<br>";
var population = httpGet("http://192.168.2.3/query.php?capitalOf=" + state, HTTP.YOUMAYCLOSETHIS);
populationSpan.innerHTML = " The population of " + state + " is "+ population +"<br>"; </script>
I would rather let the infrastruture manage the connection lifespan and give it hints about what I intend to do.
And, yes. Better if someone other than MS creates a de-facto standard.
Yet, I couldn't believe they never inspected the orbiter fully while still in orbit until after they lost Columbia.
I always imagined someone did a spacewalk (even as spacewalks are dangerous) during one of the first flights to inspect the spaceship for damage done during lift-off. This is not the way to do engineering - building something extremely complex and expensive and not learn every tiny bit it has to teach.
It's not fine to make any company give up internal information to competitors, of course.
But, when you find yourself in the very comfortable position of a monopoly, you have to play by other rules. These rules help protect other companies that would be completely unable to thrive in a saturated ecosystem.
And, in this case, we are talking about a monopolist that has not restrained itself from leveraging one monopoly to extend it to other business areas, sucking competitors dry after promising them business in return to knowledge and leaving a trail of corporate corpses in its wake.
So, yes. They have proved, time and again, their anti-social attitude and they must be contained.
I don't know if they will be able to sidestep it, but watching them try will sure prove entertaining.
Remember that moving to different places would ensure, at least, we won't all die if we are hit by a huge environmental catastrophe. Energy conservation on the Moon, for instance, may not be as big a problem as it is on Earth. Living off the land on ("in" is more likely) other planets could also bring some valuable insights on how we could live here with less resources of how we could find resources in unexpected places.
Natural resources are not a drug - we need them. It's more like water. There are no water addicts.
Software may be faster if your RAID controller is very dumb, your CPU is very fast and your computer is under a workload that's very easy on the processor.
If it's a server, with heavy processor load and lots of disk reads and writes, a good, intelligent RAID controller is the way to go.
And having a second identical unit on the shelf is very smart. After all, how much is your data worth?
IIRC, the same was said of Apple before Steve Jobs returned. But, again, Apple is Apple. Apple had computers that, if not bery attractive, were regarded as "cool". Corel's chief product was a program for PCs widely regarded as crap by half of the design industry.
Slashdot Mirror
You just said they find it a chore to translate the documents and request the data to Google US and, instead, they are opting to strong-arm Google BR into, most probably, violating US laws by giving away said data.
And if threatening Google BR, who cannot comply with an order because the data belongs to Google US, who cannot disclose that data until it's properly requested is not to cut corners, I don't know what it is. As much as I am uncomfortable with gangs, pedophiles and drug-dealers using Orkut, I know there must be a proper way. A judge holding a baseball bat does not make it legitimate as a judge ordering me to count to infinity would not make it possible or reasonable. Google BR cannot give something it doesn't have and should not be threatened this way. And, may I remind you, this show would not be happening if it weren't for the upcoming elections. This is politics at its worst. At least no presidential candidate chose to be directly involved with this. For now.
But the show is not the most important part. The more interesting issue is, indeed, one of jurisdiction. If the servers are located in the US and a Brazilian law was broken by material posted on the server, did the poster commit a crime in Brazil by posting it in the US-based server or is the material posted in the US-based server protected as free-speech?
The outcome of this dispute may define other disputes as well. Imagine, for a moment, if it wasn't for anti-black/homo/Muslim/Jew/whatever material, but something we can be more sympathetic with. Imagine if Orkut's forums were being used for organizing manifestations against Fidel Castro in Havana or in Caracas against Hugo Chavez. Imagine a government that requests access logs from Amnesty International accusing their visitors of whatever "spreading propaganda" crime is convenient. This dispute will draw a line and we will have to live with it for some time. Once drawn, it will be damn hard to move. While I do have a great deal of trust in Brazilian institutions, I have spent my first years under a dictatorship and watching Chavez (who was elected, twice) trying to amend their Constitution to allow him a third term gives me shivers. Call me paranoid, but I can trust my government, but not blindly.
And since I suspect no one else is reading this thread, we may continue this discussion in Portuguese.
If there is any non-Portuguese-speaking netizen reading this, now is the time to tell us.
And, while we are at it, since when being a chore is a good excuse to bypass due process?
IAANAL (I am also...)
I know that many crimes (aggression based on racism and religious intolerance, drug-dealing and pedophilia) are being committed in Brazil. Yet, the mountain of evidence that resides within Google servers is subject to US laws and disclosing it without proper authorization probably is a crime.
After investigating, cataloging and summarizing the alleged crimes, I can't understand why is it a chore to ask for the data directly from Google through US authorities instead of strong-arming the local office (during an election year) - the volume of paper (or bytes) is roughly the same and we have a very skilled professionals whose job is to deal with thorny issues like this one. IIRC, the Brazilian Feds have a couple of cooperation programs with the FBI that could come in handy, if proper channels are to be used.
And, BTW, about the alleged crimes that fall under US law on freedom of expression, I totally against Google providing the requested data. Regardless of the language the ideas are being expressed, they are being expressed using a computer under US jurisdiction, so, there may be lots of racist, stupid, neo-nazi and homophobic discourse, fully protected under US law. As the article says (sorry about those who can't read Portuguese), the creation of communities to spread racist and homophobic ideas is a crime in Brazil. I do not agree with those ideas, but I am not comfortable on having someone to draw a line between what I can think and say and what I can't.
Law-enforcement in a wired world where crimes are committed in cyberspace and geography is unclear is tough and we must create the mechanisms to deal with it, but this is not Google's fault.
Hi.
I see the problem as Brazilian authorities appear to be refusing to follow proper conduct. I agree that if the servers are in the US, then the laws that apply to those crimes is the US law and Brazilian authorities have no jurisdiction.
I think it should be solved, instead, by the Foreign Relations Office, that could forward the request either to Google itself or to the local authorities - I am not sure if it would be the FBI or the DOJ. Both would be more than happy to help and, IIRC, they could even ask - and be granted - extradition of non-Brazilian citizens to the US so they could be prosecuted there. This is, of course, about the child-porn problems. Speech is more protected in the US, so, it should be safe to use a US-based server to express illegal opinions about such things as racism or neo-nazis. The server is in the US, so Brazilian laws should not apply. Not that I approve racism or neo-nazis - it's a matter of jurisdiction.
OTOH, I am quite sure any employee of the Brazilian Google office that could have access to the requested data would be committing a crime in wherever-in-the-US the servers are by giving the requested information without proper authorization to foreign (from the server point-of-view) authorities and would face possible arrest upon setting foot on the US.
As it is configured now, it looks more like a pissing contest between Google and the Brazilian authorities. I side with Google, in that the data is not under Brazilian jurisdiction and Brazilian authorities are refusing to follow proper procedures for the case.
And yes, I am Brazilian and live in Brazil.
--
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com/ [dieblinkenlights.com]
Hi.
I see the problem as Brazilian authorities appear to be refusing to follow proper conduct. I agree that if the servers are in the US, then the laws that apply to those crimes is the US law and Brazilian authorities have no jurisdiction.
I think it should be solved, instead, by the Foreign Relations Office, that could forward the request either to Google itself or to the local authorities - I am not sure if it would be the FBI or the DOJ. Both would be more than happy to help and, IIRC, they could even ask - and be granted - extradition of non-Brazilian citizens to the US so they could be prosecuted there. This is, of course, about the child-porn problems. Speech is more protected in the US, so, it should be safe to use a US-based server to express illegal opinions about such things as racism or neo-nazis. The server is in the US, so Brazilian laws should not apply. Not that I approve racism or neo-nazis - it's a matter of jurisdiction.
OTOH, I am quite sure any employee of the Brazilian Google office that could have access to the requested data would be committing a crime in wherever-in-the-US the servers are by giving the requested information without proper authorization to foreign (from the server point-of-view) authorities and would face possible arrest upon setting foot on the US.
As it is configured now, it looks more like a pissing contest between Google and the Brazilian authorities. I side with Google, in that the data is not under Brazilian jurisdiction and Brazilian authorities are refusing to follow proper procedures for the case.
And yes, I am Brazilian and live in Brazil.
I know they have done their math, but it sure looks unable to generate enough drag. Picture gallery was down when they got slashdotted. I will try again tomorrow
I am looking to the diagram at http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/i mg_display.php?pic=060818_kistler_nasa_02.jpg&cap= Where+is+the+heat+shield? and wondering how do they manage a atmospheric braking and re-entry maneuver.
Any ideas?
I am not sure how Apple DOS 3.3 qualifies as a GUI ;-)
Actually it is "6. Try to minimize losses"
The chances are rather small.
S tevenson_52.html. Ironically, it's hosted in a former communist country.
The goal of the terrorists is to spread fear in order to change your behavior and create social pressures with it. As far as it goes, they are succeeding quite well.
And I would also not discard US government goals to erode as much civil rights as possible under the cloak of anti-terrorism. Anti-terrorism and anti-Islamism seems to be the anti-communism of the 21st century.
I recently rediscovered an Adlai Stevenson speech at http://tucnak.fsv.cuni.cz/~calda/Documents/1950s/
RISC Assembly is for sissies. Men do it in microcode.
;-)
Real men do it in hardware.
Not necessarily.
Species that cannot adapt to environmental change can be replaced or altered. We are no longer bound to mutation and natural selection - we can take evolution in our hands. We evolved our own corn, chicken, cows and dogs well before we knew what genes were. I suppose we could do much better now.
Yet, as anyone familiar with Australia will tell you, we must think a lot before we do introduce a new life form into the environment. Life tends to grow out of control once you release it.
It's not like disaster is unavoidable.
Well... I regard relativity as very uncomfortable. That speed-of-light limit makes the universe boringly big and all the interesting places to go are, at best, centuries away ;-)
;-)
OTOH, for the traveler, time dilation can be helpful, as it's like hitting fast-forwarding for the most boring part of the trip. Trouble is it's hitting fast-forward for the trip, but for all of the rest of the universe.
So, as far as relativity got it right, no Star Trek for us. This is bad.
I am still waiting for that Heim/Alcubierre drive.
I would rather do:
<script type="text/javascript">
capitalSpan = document.getElementById("capital");
populationSpan = document.getElementById("population");
var state = "Michigan";
var capital = httpGet("http://192.168.2.3/query.php?capitalOf=" + state, HTTP.TRYNOTTOCLOSEITRIGHTNOW);
capitalSpan.innerHTML= " The capital of " + state + " is "+ capital +"<br>";
var population = httpGet("http://192.168.2.3/query.php?capitalOf=" + state, HTTP.YOUMAYCLOSETHIS);
populationSpan.innerHTML = " The population of " + state + " is "+ population +"<br>";
</script>
I would rather let the infrastruture manage the connection lifespan and give it hints about what I intend to do.
And, yes. Better if someone other than MS creates a de-facto standard.
Given the choice of either milking a known cow to death and risking money on an untested cow, most movie execs will prefer the former.
Star trek will survive, but it has to die before it's given to someone with guts who has to prove him(her)self before it gets to the edge again.
Yet, I couldn't believe they never inspected the orbiter fully while still in orbit until after they lost Columbia.
I always imagined someone did a spacewalk (even as spacewalks are dangerous) during one of the first flights to inspect the spaceship for damage done during lift-off. This is not the way to do engineering - building something extremely complex and expensive and not learn every tiny bit it has to teach.
The sad part is that lives could have been saved.
It's not fine to make any company give up internal information to competitors, of course.
But, when you find yourself in the very comfortable position of a monopoly, you have to play by other rules. These rules help protect other companies that would be completely unable to thrive in a saturated ecosystem.
And, in this case, we are talking about a monopolist that has not restrained itself from leveraging one monopoly to extend it to other business areas, sucking competitors dry after promising them business in return to knowledge and leaving a trail of corporate corpses in its wake.
So, yes. They have proved, time and again, their anti-social attitude and they must be contained.
I don't know if they will be able to sidestep it, but watching them try will sure prove entertaining.
Is a box with four VMs running Windows four times more vulnerable to attacks than one running a single Windows instance?
How fast at sending spam would such a machine be after (about a minute after it's plugged to the internet) being infected by a worm?
Remember that moving to different places would ensure, at least, we won't all die if we are hit by a huge environmental catastrophe. Energy conservation on the Moon, for instance, may not be as big a problem as it is on Earth. Living off the land on ("in" is more likely) other planets could also bring some valuable insights on how we could live here with less resources of how we could find resources in unexpected places.
Natural resources are not a drug - we need them. It's more like water. There are no water addicts.
Software may be faster if your RAID controller is very dumb, your CPU is very fast and your computer is under a workload that's very easy on the processor.
If it's a server, with heavy processor load and lots of disk reads and writes, a good, intelligent RAID controller is the way to go.
And having a second identical unit on the shelf is very smart. After all, how much is your data worth?
I don't believe there are that many banks ;-)
Erm... If we are going to count unmanned vehicle accidents, we will have to do a whole lot more research. Let's only count the manned ones.
IIRC, the same was said of Apple before Steve Jobs returned. But, again, Apple is Apple. Apple had computers that, if not bery attractive, were regarded as "cool". Corel's chief product was a program for PCs widely regarded as crap by half of the design industry.
Is there a problem with "apt-get source linux-image-2.6.15-25-686"?
Extending the auction when someone bids has probably been patented by someone ;-)