This is fact, plain and simple..DOC is not bulletproof - it is NOT a standard that means something between versions or between international editions. Believe me, I know firsthand.
I don't care if MS offers 'converters' - SO WHAT? Doesn't it occur to anyone else that you could 'convert' your old docs into something more usable for OOo's use?
The 'Big Deal' is a known and convicted monopolist is flexing their muscles to help destroy or at least discredit an LGPL project with just enough funding to stay afloat.
Sun, Apple, and RedHat are expected to do battle with the 'enemy' - whoever they are since they are commercial competitors in kind.
Look, I'm a big fan of OOo, so don't go off on me; but I'm also a USER of OOo, not just someone promoting an adjenda. That said, a great many things are out of whack with MS' portrayal of OOo against Office, BUT there is at least one area that DOES need improvement: Installation.
If you are running a domain and authenticating users or even running multiple users in XP Home - it's a pain in the ass to get this set up. And for those who have experience with this, don't tell me that every user has to fill out a small install questionaire in order to get it to work. That's just stupidity. I want this like Office - install in one spot, and everyone gets it.
Unfortunately, this 'feature' (I would consider this a MUST for Terminal Services, public terminals or clients, or even families), won't happen until V. 2.00 - next year. You have no idea how frustrating it is for me to have to use a hacked registry patch and start-up batch file to make this work.
Yeah, you know I saw that too and I have to say that when it comes to radiation exposure - it's all guesswork in a white coat. Given the U.N.'s track record about making decisions that matter (Kosovo and Africa come to mind), I have difficulty trusting their opinion.
It's a known fact that some people are more sensitive to radiation than others and symptoms manifest themselves differently. Now that you have that knowledge - feel lucky? No, neither do I.
One thing is certain - the poor workers cleaning up the plutonium around the reactor's blown core (protected with nothing but shovels) were definately 'evidence'. You can find their radiation-saturated bodies buried next to pieces of the graphite rods.
It in fact blew the roof some 2,000 feet into the air spreading the worst of the worst particles far and wide.
White-hot graphite rods were exposed to cold water - these exploded and that was what caused the explosion. The outside world first learned of it when some Norwegian folks at a nuclear plant picked up some off the scale readings.
The majority of the reactor was buried under tons of concrete and steel (which is now in danger of cracking open). Many firefighters died attempting to contain nuclear fire and most of those had no idea what they were dealing with at the time.
Thank you for the clarification. That certainly seems a lot more reasonable and not too much different than here in the States.
I guess my over-blown point was, morality in some places shouldn't be forced on others elsewhere no matter WHO is doing it to whom. My concern with the WTO is not so much free trade as it is a legitimization of gambling - that which used to be vice.
Hmm, yes. We should ALWAYS do what the U.N. tells us, huh? Please, get a grip. This is the same U.N. that stood by while people were getting massacred in Kosovo and Africa, right? Their track record for mediocrity speaks for itself.
So let's see. The age of consent in the Netherlands is 12. Does this now mean that a Dutch company can set up a online sex business with young teens, where U.S. 'customers' can chat with them about whatever?
It seems to me that it would then be illegal (by WTO standards) to prevent pedos from having a field day since this would be a "prevention of trade." Please stop assuming that just because the majority of the world comes together on something that they are right.
Which is fine - as long as you yourself do not use Linux. That's the real issue here. Should you do business with a company like EV-1 who is supporting a company trying to destroy what might be running your company's DNS server?
No kidding. Compatibility issues exist between almost every single version of Office. Then you have people creating documents on older versions of Works at home and bringing them into the office (or school). Good luck opening those also.
Then too are international issues. Ever try to open a Japanese version of a document in English Word? Again, good luck.
Most people don't run into a lot of issues with Word because most people don't use 1/4 of the features of Word. And that's exactly why Microsoft is worried. OpenOffice.org LOVES these kinds of users!
God, where would I start to combat this ridiculous list?
Well, first and foremost the correct name for this office suite is 'OpenOffice.Org' not 'OpenOffice'. This is why you often find it acronymed as: 'OOo'.
NTSC was practical for the day and for many years afterward. Can you think of any other standard that works well within technology limitations (mainly storage limitations)? Something that while being far from the most clean sounding or best reproductive of sound, has worked and will likely continue to be used for years?
MP3!
Is it great quality? Well, only at higher bitrates (ie. not 96 or 128 bits) that almost none in the general public uses. Sometimes 'good enough' is good enough.
Swiss chocolate makers used to think that clearly something was wrong with Americans for actually calling Hershey's milk chocolate, 'milk chocolate' when it was clearly not of the same quality of their own. But... It was also not of the same price range.
Pearls before swine, or good 'ol American practicality?
I think it really depends on your standing with management and your fiscal reality.
The way I did it here was easy: We were BROKE! What choice did we really have? By the time the fiscal crisis ended, all but senior administration made the switch.
I wouldn't have been so enthusiastic years ago when OOo was in beta (and buggy as hell!), but times have changed. 1.1.0 is awe inspiring when you consider the price!
Ways to convince management:
1) Make them part of the process. First, make a presentation showing OOo opening MS Word documents and basic document manipulation. At the end of the presentation, give everyone a copy of OOo, or even better still, a copy of the Open CD 1.2.
Giving them ownership is half the battle. They will naturally wonder what's wrong with it, why is it free, etc. In the age of viruses and spyware, it is easy to understand. Be patient with their questions.
2) The are more advantages than price - be sure they know this. PDF and Flash compatibility are big sticks to swing, so is Sun's support of OOo.
3) Consider StarOffice 7. It's a professional package with support and schools can get it for the cost of the media. Call Sun - seriously. When Sun gives you a schoolwide license (and they will), tell management that Sun has donated the newest version of StarOffice to the school. THAT'S hard to say no to.
OOo can still be offered to students and teachers as a 'library CD' to take home, copy, whatever. Again, I recommend the Open CD for this because of it's clear, concise installation. It also has info about Open Source Software.
4) Don't forget the teachers, but have administration support first. Here's the thing: You will find that every org out there has been through gut wrenching changes over the years. Many folks that have been around for a while will remember the days of Wordperfect, XYWrite, and Word for DOS. Gently remind them that change is inevitable and that where computers are concerned, change is MANDATORY.
5) Remind them of their responsibility to the taxpayers. How much more of our tax dollars should go to MS directly? Ask them what they think.
6) When presenting to the teachers, I gave every one of them a copy at the end. All of the teachers were a bit wary about our switch, and one of them stood up and challenged me. I looked over at the headmaster and then back at them and said, "Well... Which teacher would like to give up his or her job so that we can give money to MS for Office licenses?" Obviously, no one moved.
See, that's what it all comes down to - money given to MS is less money for everything else they want - stress that. And the price of unlicensed software is far too high to contemplate. Check out this article for yet more ammunition - it scared the hell out of us:
Make sure they understand that with Sun, license compliance would be easy. One license, done. Of course with OOo, its.. Well... DONE!;)
7) Don't be cowed by the 'awesome' invincibility of the.DOC format. There are all sorts of issues with Office.DOC formats - not the least of which are students who continue to use old versions of Works (which stupidly use a different.DOC format)..DOC is rife with incompatibilities from Works, to Office 95/97, to Publisher (all versions), and international support is all but nil except in 2003. Why use a 'converter' program when Star/OOo can do the job just fine?
No, compatibility isn't perfect, but you have to investigate what the teachers and administrators are doing. I'll bet you NONE of them use anything more complex than tables. In that case, you're clear. If they are using tons of macros, you may need to make some exceptions.
Also, remind them that.SX* is a true XML format - open, understandable - unlike MS's proprietary one.
I hope that helps, I would certainly be willing to help you in any way that I can. My email address is:
I was the holder of a check from that bank, signed to me. I have no relationship with that bank - nor do I wish to. Maybe I live too far in the sticks, but I've NEVER seen this done before.
Why in the hell would I give my fingerprint to anyone I don't even have a business relationship with?
Maybe if I hadn't worked for Corestates' IT dept. years ago as a lowly integrator I wouldn't be so concerned. What I saw there terrified me.
Yeah, I admit it - I'm the bitch of almost every local supermarket and retail store that requires a barcode for discounts.
It sucks, but I try not go down without a fight. You know, it amazes me how many people simply do not care about the wealth of information garnered about them. I've brought this up in lunchroom conversations with my fellow employees and they're like, "Oh well, what can ya do..."
Get this: Recently, I went to a bank to cash a check. This was not my bank, but the check belonged to them and as I was in a hurry for the money, I thought I'd simply cash it there.
I showed them my ID, but you can guess my reaction when they asked me for a FINGERPRINT! "Oh, it's just a formality..."
Bullshit! Look, I don't mind that the gov't has this info on me (I was in the Army once), but it REALLY bothers me when a financial institution can ask for this. Needless to say, I deposited my check at my bank, but I was a bit shaken by the incident.
Is this the beginnings of our Brave New World? If so, I hope they use oral thermometers. No way I'm getting that up my ass for 5% off!
There is no middle ground to the RIAA on this issue. These are the same people that prevented DAT from becoming a real standard for music listening and delayed the arrival CD-R's through lawsuit after lawsuit.
Then there is the fact that you are asking kids who listen to 'gangsta' rap to respect the rights of the artists. Right. Talk about mixed messages! 'Yo, I gotz to OWN, yo!'
So then when you LEGALLY want to obtain music, you have to play by their rules. Well, quite frankly, their rules SUCK! I don't like my music encrypted. When I bought CDs years ago, I didn't ask the record company's position on playing them in a car, a computer, or at home. Why is this any different nowadays?
The RIAA in their tactics are making it difficult to reasonably comply with their rules. What it has done is take an organization that few but musicians and those in the industry knew of and shine a huge 'ASSHOLE' spotlight on them.
The problem with using direct attraction is that there is always the possibility that a node's transmissions will give its material away - not in de-encrypted form, but in SIZE.
The way Mute works is perhaps the safest method since it even hides the transmission rates of nodes due to its roundabout method of discovery.
Not exactly what you would call robust or full-featured but hey, cut them some slack. At this point, it still works better than Freenet and at least you have a CHANCE to download unlike things like DirectConnect (QUEUE: 1400)
I know most of us on Slashdot are anti-MS, but think about this for a moment. Given the current political climate, isn't it at least possible that the EU has decided to prosecute MS to this extent out of anger at US policy?
Look, we all know MS has been guilty in the past, and to some extent surely still is (can you say... SCO?) of preventing competition, however if there's a chance that this action is motivated by anti-US sentiment, THAT should be considered as well.
It might be MS today, but who will it be tomorrow? I realize that France and Germany are angry that their exclusive banking 'oil for food' deals in Iraq are over, but will they now take it out on other US-based organizations out of spite? Can we expect action from the US gov't on this issue?
That a man like John Kerry would get elected to the highest office in the land because of a campaign of hate against Bush.
I'm not talking about ideology, I'm talking about hate. The folks on the Left don't just have pholsphical differences with Bush, they HATE him! That really concerns me even more than the fact that so far no Dem has been able to really show me that Kerry the better CANDIDATE when compared to someone like Ralph Nader.
You've all got to have a better reason then 'ABB' or 'I hate Bush'.
Slashdot Mirror
This is fact, plain and simple. .DOC is not bulletproof - it is NOT a standard that means something between versions or between international editions. Believe me, I know firsthand.
I don't care if MS offers 'converters' - SO WHAT? Doesn't it occur to anyone else that you could 'convert' your old docs into something more usable for OOo's use?
The 'Big Deal' is a known and convicted monopolist is flexing their muscles to help destroy or at least discredit an LGPL project with just enough funding to stay afloat.
Sun, Apple, and RedHat are expected to do battle with the 'enemy' - whoever they are since they are commercial competitors in kind.
Look, I'm a big fan of OOo, so don't go off on me; but I'm also a USER of OOo, not just someone promoting an adjenda. That said, a great many things are out of whack with MS' portrayal of OOo against Office, BUT there is at least one area that DOES need improvement: Installation.
If you are running a domain and authenticating users or even running multiple users in XP Home - it's a pain in the ass to get this set up. And for those who have experience with this, don't tell me that every user has to fill out a small install questionaire in order to get it to work. That's just stupidity. I want this like Office - install in one spot, and everyone gets it.
Unfortunately, this 'feature' (I would consider this a MUST for Terminal Services, public terminals or clients, or even families), won't happen until V. 2.00 - next year. You have no idea how frustrating it is for me to have to use a hacked registry patch and start-up batch file to make this work.
So... Ease of install... Er... Needs work folks!
Yeah, you know I saw that too and I have to say that when it comes to radiation exposure - it's all guesswork in a white coat. Given the U.N.'s track record about making decisions that matter (Kosovo and Africa come to mind), I have difficulty trusting their opinion.
It's a known fact that some people are more sensitive to radiation than others and symptoms manifest themselves differently. Now that you have that knowledge - feel lucky? No, neither do I.
One thing is certain - the poor workers cleaning up the plutonium around the reactor's blown core (protected with nothing but shovels) were definately 'evidence'. You can find their radiation-saturated bodies buried next to pieces of the graphite rods.
It in fact blew the roof some 2,000 feet into the air spreading the worst of the worst particles far and wide.
White-hot graphite rods were exposed to cold water - these exploded and that was what caused the explosion. The outside world first learned of it when some Norwegian folks at a nuclear plant picked up some off the scale readings.
The majority of the reactor was buried under tons of concrete and steel (which is now in danger of cracking open). Many firefighters died attempting to contain nuclear fire and most of those had no idea what they were dealing with at the time.
More info here:
http://www.uic.com.au/nip22.htm
Thank you for the clarification. That certainly seems a lot more reasonable and not too much different than here in the States.
I guess my over-blown point was, morality in some places shouldn't be forced on others elsewhere no matter WHO is doing it to whom. My concern with the WTO is not so much free trade as it is a legitimization of gambling - that which used to be vice.
Don't know. Got my info from here.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm
Can anyone from the Netherlands confirm what exactly this means?
"...Against the wishes of the U.N..."
Hmm, yes. We should ALWAYS do what the U.N. tells us, huh? Please, get a grip. This is the same U.N. that stood by while people were getting massacred in Kosovo and Africa, right? Their track record for mediocrity speaks for itself.
So let's see. The age of consent in the Netherlands is 12. Does this now mean that a Dutch company can set up a online sex business with young teens, where U.S. 'customers' can chat with them about whatever?
It seems to me that it would then be illegal (by WTO standards) to prevent pedos from having a field day since this would be a "prevention of trade." Please stop assuming that just because the majority of the world comes together on something that they are right.
Which is fine - as long as you yourself do not use Linux. That's the real issue here. Should you do business with a company like EV-1 who is supporting a company trying to destroy what might be running your company's DNS server?
...by the lite FM!
:)
(MST3K Humor - I love it!)
No kidding. Compatibility issues exist between almost every single version of Office. Then you have people creating documents on older versions of Works at home and bringing them into the office (or school). Good luck opening those also.
Then too are international issues. Ever try to open a Japanese version of a document in English Word? Again, good luck.
Most people don't run into a lot of issues with Word because most people don't use 1/4 of the features of Word. And that's exactly why Microsoft is worried. OpenOffice.org LOVES these kinds of users!
God, where would I start to combat this ridiculous list?
Well, first and foremost the correct name for this office suite is 'OpenOffice.Org' not 'OpenOffice'. This is why you often find it acronymed as: 'OOo'.
NTSC was practical for the day and for many years afterward. Can you think of any other standard that works well within technology limitations (mainly storage limitations)? Something that while being far from the most clean sounding or best reproductive of sound, has worked and will likely continue to be used for years?
MP3!
Is it great quality? Well, only at higher bitrates (ie. not 96 or 128 bits) that almost none in the general public uses. Sometimes 'good enough' is good enough.
Swiss chocolate makers used to think that clearly something was wrong with Americans for actually calling Hershey's milk chocolate, 'milk chocolate' when it was clearly not of the same quality of their own. But... It was also not of the same price range.
Pearls before swine, or good 'ol American practicality?
I think it really depends on your standing with management and your fiscal reality.
c ro soft_school/index.html
;)
.DOC format. There are all sorts of issues with Office .DOC formats - not the least of which are students who continue to use old versions of Works (which stupidly use a different .DOC format). .DOC is rife with incompatibilities from Works, to Office 95/97, to Publisher (all versions), and international support is all but nil except in 2003. Why use a 'converter' program when Star/OOo can do the job just fine?
.SX* is a true XML format - open, understandable - unlike MS's proprietary one.
The way I did it here was easy: We were BROKE! What choice did we really have? By the time the fiscal crisis ended, all but senior administration made the switch.
I wouldn't have been so enthusiastic years ago when OOo was in beta (and buggy as hell!), but times have changed. 1.1.0 is awe inspiring when you consider the price!
Ways to convince management:
1) Make them part of the process. First, make a presentation showing OOo opening MS Word documents and basic document manipulation. At the end of the presentation, give everyone a copy of OOo, or even better still, a copy of the Open CD 1.2.
Giving them ownership is half the battle. They will naturally wonder what's wrong with it, why is it free, etc. In the age of viruses and spyware, it is easy to understand. Be patient with their questions.
2) The are more advantages than price - be sure they know this. PDF and Flash compatibility are big sticks to swing, so is Sun's support of OOo.
3) Consider StarOffice 7. It's a professional package with support and schools can get it for the cost of the media. Call Sun - seriously. When Sun gives you a schoolwide license (and they will), tell management that Sun has donated the newest version of StarOffice to the school. THAT'S hard to say no to.
OOo can still be offered to students and teachers as a 'library CD' to take home, copy, whatever. Again, I recommend the Open CD for this because of it's clear, concise installation. It also has info about Open Source Software.
4) Don't forget the teachers, but have administration support first. Here's the thing: You will find that every org out there has been through gut wrenching changes over the years. Many folks that have been around for a while will remember the days of Wordperfect, XYWrite, and Word for DOS. Gently remind them that change is inevitable and that where computers are concerned, change is MANDATORY.
5) Remind them of their responsibility to the taxpayers. How much more of our tax dollars should go to MS directly? Ask them what they think.
6) When presenting to the teachers, I gave every one of them a copy at the end. All of the teachers were a bit wary about our switch, and one of them stood up and challenged me. I looked over at the headmaster and then back at them and said, "Well... Which teacher would like to give up his or her job so that we can give money to MS for Office licenses?" Obviously, no one moved.
See, that's what it all comes down to - money given to MS is less money for everything else they want - stress that. And the price of unlicensed software is far too high to contemplate. Check out this article for yet more ammunition - it scared the hell out of us:
http://dir.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/07/10/mi
Make sure they understand that with Sun, license compliance would be easy. One license, done. Of course with OOo, its.. Well... DONE!
7) Don't be cowed by the 'awesome' invincibility of the
No, compatibility isn't perfect, but you have to investigate what the teachers and administrators are doing. I'll bet you NONE of them use anything more complex than tables. In that case, you're clear. If they are using tons of macros, you may need to make some exceptions.
Also, remind them that
I hope that helps, I would certainly be willing to help you in any way that I can. My email address is:
admin[nospamm]@lindenhall.org
Good luck!
I was the holder of a check from that bank, signed to me. I have no relationship with that bank - nor do I wish to. Maybe I live too far in the sticks, but I've NEVER seen this done before.
Why in the hell would I give my fingerprint to anyone I don't even have a business relationship with?
Maybe if I hadn't worked for Corestates' IT dept. years ago as a lowly integrator I wouldn't be so concerned. What I saw there terrified me.
Wachovia.
Formerly First Union.
Formerly Corestates.
Formerly Meridian.
Etc.
Yeah, I admit it - I'm the bitch of almost every local supermarket and retail store that requires a barcode for discounts.
It sucks, but I try not go down without a fight. You know, it amazes me how many people simply do not care about the wealth of information garnered about them. I've brought this up in lunchroom conversations with my fellow employees and they're like, "Oh well, what can ya do..."
Get this: Recently, I went to a bank to cash a check. This was not my bank, but the check belonged to them and as I was in a hurry for the money, I thought I'd simply cash it there.
I showed them my ID, but you can guess my reaction when they asked me for a FINGERPRINT! "Oh, it's just a formality..."
Bullshit! Look, I don't mind that the gov't has this info on me (I was in the Army once), but it REALLY bothers me when a financial institution can ask for this. Needless to say, I deposited my check at my bank, but I was a bit shaken by the incident.
Is this the beginnings of our Brave New World? If so, I hope they use oral thermometers. No way I'm getting that up my ass for 5% off!
There is no middle ground to the RIAA on this issue. These are the same people that prevented DAT from becoming a real standard for music listening and delayed the arrival CD-R's through lawsuit after lawsuit.
Then there is the fact that you are asking kids who listen to 'gangsta' rap to respect the rights of the artists. Right. Talk about mixed messages! 'Yo, I gotz to OWN, yo!'
So then when you LEGALLY want to obtain music, you have to play by their rules. Well, quite frankly, their rules SUCK! I don't like my music encrypted. When I bought CDs years ago, I didn't ask the record company's position on playing them in a car, a computer, or at home. Why is this any different nowadays?
The RIAA in their tactics are making it difficult to reasonably comply with their rules. What it has done is take an organization that few but musicians and those in the industry knew of and shine a huge 'ASSHOLE' spotlight on them.
The problem with using direct attraction is that there is always the possibility that a node's transmissions will give its material away - not in de-encrypted form, but in SIZE.
The way Mute works is perhaps the safest method since it even hides the transmission rates of nodes due to its roundabout method of discovery.
See MUTE-Net:
mute-net.sourceforge.net
Not exactly what you would call robust or full-featured but hey, cut them some slack. At this point, it still works better than Freenet and at least you have a CHANCE to download unlike things like DirectConnect (QUEUE: 1400)
But that's what VH1 and VH2 are for!
Yes, it worked well for Hitler too. Somehow I don't find that very reassuring.
I know most of us on Slashdot are anti-MS, but think about this for a moment. Given the current political climate, isn't it at least possible that the EU has decided to prosecute MS to this extent out of anger at US policy?
Look, we all know MS has been guilty in the past, and to some extent surely still is (can you say... SCO?) of preventing competition, however if there's a chance that this action is motivated by anti-US sentiment, THAT should be considered as well.
It might be MS today, but who will it be tomorrow? I realize that France and Germany are angry that their exclusive banking 'oil for food' deals in Iraq are over, but will they now take it out on other US-based organizations out of spite? Can we expect action from the US gov't on this issue?
That a man like John Kerry would get elected to the highest office in the land because of a campaign of hate against Bush.
I'm not talking about ideology, I'm talking about hate. The folks on the Left don't just have pholsphical differences with Bush, they HATE him! That really concerns me even more than the fact that so far no Dem has been able to really show me that Kerry the better CANDIDATE when compared to someone like Ralph Nader.
You've all got to have a better reason then 'ABB' or 'I hate Bush'.
For some strange reason his comment did make me LOL - big time! :O :)
Lighten up!