Slashdot Mirror
Latest Chernobyl Motorcycle Photos
wrx writes "Elena has taken another motorcycle ride through the Chernobyl area, and has updated her site with a whole lot of new photos and text. The pictures now show several surrounding towns, the radiation level of the magic wood, and many more details inside buildings. After the dust had settled from the
original slashdot story,
Elena wrote 'who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.'"
I'm counting around 100 or so hits every few seconds...
We'll show her who "those slashdot people" are.
I can't even imagine the dose she's soaking up. I look at the reading she's showing in pictures and she's taken up my YEARLY dose in HOURS. Is it really exciting enough to give away years of your life for a helluva ride?
Then again, I chase storms.
Go with God, girl.
It's too dangerous with all the Slashdot people around...
Anyone else reminded of that zombie flick while looking at these pictures?
creepy....
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Without subscribing to slashdot I would never have seen this site since it is All graphics. What a world.
someone linky for us dialuppers..
It's disturbing to think that the town is going to be like that for 100 years.
Regardless of how many breakthroughs there have been in fission technology, I'd like to see twice as many breakthroughs in radiation cleanup before I embrace the technology.
Some of us still remember Three Mile Island.
Hi. You must be new here. :)
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Readers keep recommending Slashdot mirror sites. But of course, that would mean (a) editors would have to read the site to know what we think, and (b) they would have to do some actual work.
Advice: on VPS providers
We're Mongol-Tartars ok, in more ways than one :=}
Leave it to a former SOVIET RUSSIAN to come up with the most apt description yet of...YOU.
Re Giant Egg: "big egg as we passing 86th kilometer we'll see this big egg. This is where civilisation ends and where Chernobyl ride begin. Someone brought this egg from Germany. The significance of this egg is LIFE that will break through, life that will survive through radiation."
I don't think that symbolism will work. People instead will think of Giant Mutant Chickens and run like hell.
Table-ized A.I.
While the evacuated scenes of London in the film don't have the wear and tear of a few decades of desertion like Chernobyl does, it kind of gives you a representation of what it might be like to be there.
Scary stuff...What's our world coming to?
_________________________________________
nothing.can.stop.me.now
I think the primary question is of course, is she single?
I suppose a secondary question (assuming a negative answer to the first) would be will she provide me with a tour?
"It has always been this way and it won't change, god bless the fucked up USA" The Briefs
So just to drive in the finer points of the answer to her question, we do it to her again. I'm sure she's likes it even better the second time around...
When in doubt, act determined. Business 101
Now going inside houses and all that is another story. Really amazing pictures, I wish someone could build a drone to go inside some of those areas.
Makes me really think about living in the town that I live in currently, we're downwind of a Nuclear power plant about 40-50 miles away.
Slashdot sucks
The pictures and story she has on her site are quite simply amazing.
Being an American kid at the time of the incident, I was fairly well removed, both politically and geographically, from the disaster, but Elena's pictures serve as a reminder of just how terrible and far reaching the effects of the meltdown were. From the initial coverup to the resulting FUD pumped out by the Russian government during the aftermath, it is easy to lose sight of the fact that this event displaced tens of thousands of people, and many more are still dealing with the legacy or horrors the fallout has inflicted.
Kudos to Elena and the editors for a great human interest story.
This is very fitting timing, and a reminder, to the Three Mile Island accident which happened 25 years ago on March 28. We were extremely close to experiencing a total catsrophe, but avoided it narrowly mostly due to luck.
"They swept over like Mongol-Tartars."
And so you post her to the front page. Again. That's just spiteful.
You can't buy this kind of publicity, but you are sure going to pay for it. Hopefully the bill falls on anglefire and not our friend on the bike.
The ______ Agenda
'who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.'
The Nazgul.
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
Come on, this is slashdot ... motorcycle riding photo-snapping babe through nuclear wasteland ... show me a geek that isn't drooling by now.
Come to think about it, it would be a great location for a disaster flick. Getting people over their fear of going there might be a problem. You'd have to pay a little more than scale.
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
To die quietly human need to acquire a tan of 500 roentgen within 5 hours.
There are many things people do everyday that shorten your or reduce your health, mainly: Using Gasoline!
>I too agree that the USSR should be ashamed and we should be Proud Americans.
It's not like accidents don't happen in the United States, and I don't quite see where your statement is founded.... simply because another country has a disaster, does not give Americans, nor any other country in the world bragging rights. I think what should be truly done, is that we all learn from examples, so this won't happen to humanity again.
"in year 1986 a guy named Akimov pushed wrong button and launched the biggest nuclear catastrophe ..."
Hmm, looks like they had a Russian version of Homer Simpson working there. He was probably looking for the "donut button".
I saw this new page yesterday and when I visited it the hit counter was at about 6000 now it is at ~20000. Well show here who these Slashdot people are!
History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it - Sir Winston Churchill
(Oh, I wasn't suggesting that any American actually does feel proud, just a heat of the moment thing!)
...be prepared for the world to see it. It's simple as that, son. Accept it, or shut up.
think she'd make a great candidate for a slashdot interview.....
Scientology's Purification Rundown. Of course, they don't talk about the liver damage and other problems that might result. But they wouldn't lie, would they? (Oops, >a href="http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/source s/reports/hogg.htm">they might.)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Tell me about it! I'm still looking for the picture of her in leather and a shotgun strapped to her bike, riding down the road.
It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
You really don't know that Chernobyl is 1) in Russia, and was 2) built by Russia? This is all Russia's doing, not the US's.
wow, very poignant. It reminds us of the fragility of life.
/cry
The last few pages were difficult to view,of the preschool...
Looks like they only show 6 days/week. Why is this?? http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/imag e21.3.JPG
what in the flying fuck are you talking about, asshole?
Am I correct in assuming that roengen is the Russian term for rem, or are they using a different unit of measurement?
Reminds me of this article about Economic Ghost Towns
Roentgens, the unit used in her journal, measure ionization of the air. The general conversion is that 1 Roentgen = 1 REM, the unit we use for human radiation exposure in the US.
In one transcontinental roundtrip flight, you get 6 millirem, which is equal to 6000 microroentgen. Her little counter is reading microroentgen per hour, so she can go somewhere where her counter is reading 500 and it's just like she's sitting on an airliner at 35000 feet.
Your yearly dose is about 300 millirem, so in order for her to soak that up in hours, as you claim, she'd have to sit somewhere that her counter reads 100000 or more. She's being very smart. If she were walking around without the dosimeter, she could get in trouble.
This is what she means when she says people fear what they don't understand. Once you understand the risks involved, you see her radiation exposure is much less risky than, say, smoking, or even riding motorcycles at all.
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
She's riding a fast motorcycle on unswept roads in a place where nobody's going to come along to find you for a long, long time.
A few rem won't add materially to her risk.
> I too agree that the USSR should be ashamed and we should be Proud Americans.
Let's see shall we?
Three mile island ring any bells?
And then there's the deliberate ones, hiroshima and nagasaki.
Still proud?
I have a few old bikes, specifically Nortons. I would really like to get my 1962 650 SS up and running and take it over there just to ride around.
Sure, it won't even come close to her bike - but hell, I wanted to get it restored and ride across Canada from coast to coast, now taking it to the ghost town seems somehow much more appealing.
I wonder how many people will start doing this?
In the end, I hope she makes some $$$ as a tour guide. Similar to what she mentions other people do.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Tarkofsky was a prophet! Down to the people making their living as guides in The Zone. But, of course we didn't need anything to fall from the sky. We did it ourselves. Yay us! -nme!
"to die quietly humans need to acquire a tan of 500 roentgen within 5 hours"
..when your mom, girlfriend, or whatever complains that your room needs dusting!
I blame the beer. Like I said in two other posts (?), I made a mistake, it's amazing how often people do actually make mistakes, learn to live with it fuckmook.
I shouldn't do this first gear hard launch in front of leading personal and some committee.. that's fine with me... after all, what did I lose, except for those several hundreds microroengen
;)
Thats my kind of radiation-researcher
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
Act like one.
;)
Primarily you should ask how many Rods to the HoggsHead does she get on that kawasaki, and then you ask for a tour... for scientific porpuses
Speaking of it being slashdot ... where are the dinks complaining about her grammatical skills? C'mon, I want a free lesson in professional writing from an AC!
For some reason, that's one place I think I need to visit.
Can anyone explain how the trees got red because of the radiation? That IS scary.
In the last picture in chapter 9, there is this big slogan across the room. In Ukrainian, it reads:
"Long live communism - the bright future for the whole mankind!"
Truly, you may never know how the words you say today will be _seen_ tomorrow.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe.
H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"
She looks like Ensign Roe (without the nose gills)
Is she single?
:-)
I certainly hope so... I don't think she should be having children
and less than 3000 rotegens!
I think I shall now go buy a Shoei helment, so that we can ride together into the Red Sunset together.
~
Terra
~
And all that jazz.
Unless she set the camera on a, uh, really high fence post. Or maybe she has a tripod, I guess...
free speach
Did you mean: free speech
Those pictures are just great at showing the sense of "creepiness" of those places. I can definitely understand why folks are afraid of venturing into the dead zone, even though these aren't terribly large doses of radiation.
Everyone should definitely take the time to look through ALL of the pages. Thanks to the author/photographer for a great photo-essay.
Visit the oldest running human webcam on the internet:
http://www.mitwebcam.com
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my disk????
...that gets you, it's the radiation.
From the linked site: "It must be sectarian village, one of the sect where brothers have been marrying sisters and they all used to have one last name."
Especially those that use mod points on AC comments!
I reckon this is one of the most interesting articles / sites I've ever read. Going to to Chernobyl is quite amazing, and especially sharing it with us. :D
This is the most profound and disturbing story I've ever seen here. It underscores, where words alone are hopelessly inadequate, the depraved hubris in thinking we've "tamed the atom". My kudos to the editors for choosing to post it!
grammatical skills completely dwarfed by "dramatical" skills
Puddles of drool. Now if only I were single and looking...sigh
But wow...aside from the fact that she probably glows in the dark, this girl is pretty amazing: photographer, journalist, adventurer, quite beautiful, and isn't afraid of doing 170km/h. Can we say geek dream come true? Am I the only one disappointed that she was wise enough to not include an email?
Elena wrote 'who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.'"
In Soviet Russia, websites view you!
A slashdotting is a little like standing under the nickel slot machine when it dumps twenty pounds of nickels all at once - in one way you're glad they're there, but - OW!
lets just a hope that "rug" called Yucca Mountains you are sweeping your oh-so-clean nuclear waste under is still stable in a 1000years or USA might look like those pics, of course it will be radioactive in 10,000 years so keep sweeping !!
because it's fucking dumb
"if I walk few hundred meters towards reactor, then I will find 3 roengen. If I keep walking all the way to reactor, then at the end of a journey I will glow in a dark. May be this is why they call it a magic wood. this sort of a magic when one walk in in a biker leather and coming out like a knight in a shinning armour. "
the motorcycle rides YOU!!!
"aside from the fact that she probably glows in the dark"
Is that a downside or a bonus?
Last page:
Ukraine
03187 Kiev-187
Zabolotnogo 20/A
Post Box 25
Elena
Why don't we, as a community, set her up with some real hosting for her pics.. maybe something with moveable type and plenty of room for pictures.
We have places like that in America too. On our map we call them West Virginia.
Ukraine 03187 Kiev-187 Zabolotnogo 20/A Post Box 25 Elena
Go on, send a post card.
500 roentgen of alpha radiation is a lot, lot worse than 500 roentgen of x-rays... they both might be enough to kill you, but the quote should really use proper units - rems (or Sieverts), the unit of biological dose.
---
Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
Scratch a Russian and find a... Slashdot reader?
She's hot, she rides a motorcycle, and she has an accent.
:-(
I think I'm in love.
Of course, our kids will each have 9 heads.
-----------------------
To understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.
From_ back.p df
http://ldml.stanford.edu/cisac/pdf/Nuc_terr
20,000 millirem will mutate DNA enough to produce noticeable health effects. Above 100,000 millirem, diseases manifest.
10,000 millirem is enough to increase your cancer risk.
5,000 millirem per year is the maximum allowable annual dosage.
25,000-100.000 mrem - Temporary blood changes
35,000 - Loss of appetite, nausea
50,000 - Temporary sterility in males
100,000 - 2x normal incidence of genetic defects
100,000 - 300,000 - Vomiting, diarrhea
300,000 - 500,000 - 50% chance of death if not treated
300,000+ - Permanent sterility for females
400,000-1,000,000 - Acute illnes, death within days if not treated.
Her meter was showing over 800 millirem per hour, when she was standing a few hundred metres from the reactor.
I am facinated by these pictures, I would love to (briefly) visit these places, but I fear she will do herself serious harm over time. The area is an incredible time capsule.
My rights don't need management.
Has anyone thought of an idea to do P2P website hosting? I think it would be an interesting idea to have a slashdot client running on your computer. That way, ever website you visit gets cached to the client. And because it's cached, you also end up hosting the website for other slashdotters happen to have the same client program, yet arn't able to gain access to the original URL.
Life is not for the lazy.
I got most of it, I think. So, in case the angelfire page goes down, here is a semi-mirror. Some of the images didn't save, but I got most everything.
e d.html
It looks like the angelfire page is still there, but this might help her page load a little.
HERE IS THE PAGE:
http://www.ee.utulsa.edu/~tellis/mirror/kiddofspe
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"We are Linux. Resistance is measured in Ohms."
The licence plate on her bike is KIA.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
As pointed out elsewhere, she also looks like Ensign Roe of NG Trek fame. If you date her, just don't make her wear nose-gills in bed. Her Geek Meter would go off the scale.
Cause she sure as hell can't have any.
-rimshot-
No, by 'rimshot', I meant...oh, forget it...although, thinking about it, it -would- help prevent kids....
*cough*
I thought this the first time the photos were posted and with the new ones this time round: Look at the amount of rubbish that's left in the various buildings from when people were evacuated.
How much of that just won't be biodegradable? How about how much more stuff we've manufactured over the years?
What are future civilisations going to think when all they find of ours are plastic baby dolls?
(Laugh. It's a joke, that might just make you think.)
Hey, as a potter, you're probably getting a few handfuls more radiation than the general populace just by virtue of your glaze materials.
But then, if you do exclusively anagama, that's not a problem.
I had a high school physics prof bring in some happy yellow Fiestaware bowls that she bought in New Mexico when she was working on the bomb. That yellow was from the Uranium Oxide in the glaze. Those things got the Geiger counter screaming, I can tell you. "How'd you like to eat your Wheaties from that?" she'd ask.
I often wonder what isotopes my cobalt carbonate or manganese have in 'em...
Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
www.fogbound.net
Reactor 4 exploded, but to what degree? Was it a contained explosion that resulted in the spread of radioactive materials or was the explosion equivalent to that of an a-bomb where it just decimated everything within a few mile radius?
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
This can't be good.
Are we soon going to have large populations of mutant radioactive animals here?
I remeber when this happened, I was a little kid back then (i think 2nd grade), and the entire city (about 10,000 people) had to go (kids went to school) and get special medication, which was in a little vile, looked like pepsi, but tasted awful. scary thing was, I was living in Stettin, which was probably about 1300 miles away from Charnobyl, in a different country! (close to Germany) :(
horrible, horrible thing what happened there
Peace, serenity, and absolute freedom. Sometimes I dream of places like this, with all the people gone, and it is beautiful.
Sometimes our own stupidity is the most exquisite personification of the forces of Nature.
Don't mess with Michael or I'll have to come down there myself, you farking icehole
fuck off and die, asswipe.
Come on, this is slashdot ... motorcycle riding photo-snapping babe through nuclear wasteland ... show me a geek that isn't drooling by now.
I believe you mean "motorcycle riding photo-snapping Russian babe through nuclear wasteland" ;)
<drool>
Amen good Sir Knight
This is a very interesting article but the figure of 300,000 to 400,000 deaths is ludicrous. So far as I can tell, Chernobyl accident is responsible for less than 10,000 fatalities (there will be more as time goes on).
Of course, that's a horrible number of deaths from an industrial accident. Comparable or perhaps not as bad as Bhopal.
See this rather old reference
I believe you mean "motorcycle riding photo-snapping Russian babe through nuclear wasteland" ;)
Hell, it's probaly the best chance many of us have. "In SOVIET RUSSIA, hot babe lusts after YOU!"
You say that as if it's a bad thing. Maybe if you really get her blood pumping she'll glow brighter. :)
- RustyTaco
I was 6 years old living in Kharkov, Ukraine. We were told nothing about what happened. My dad went camping not to far from the city, and they got caught in a huge rain storm. My dad's friends were physisists who had access to more news then most people as well as Giger(sp?) counters. When they got back from the trip they scanned their clothing. The reading were off the scale. They had to burn everything they were wearing on the trip as well as all the camping gear. None of it made much sence to me back then, but it seems pretty scarry now. Luckily, almost 20 years since, none of those people had any health problems that could be directly traced to Chernobyl. Also keep in mind that Kharkov was hundreds of miles away from the reactor and the wind was in the other direction, and there was still a lot of radiation. Moral of the story? If you're ever in Ukraine, eat imported vegies.
Maybe a place of historical heritage... Fact is, it's not really suitable for people to use it for living, and won't be, for the foreseable future. But even if it was, living there would almost be like desacrating a graveyard.
Quite interesting that the author (the biker girl) confirmed what I thought all along: the place has become a heaven for wildlife. Animals don't care about shorter life expectancy, as long as they are freed from the intimidating human presence.
Sigged!
Come on, this is slashdot ... motorcycle riding photo-snapping babe through nuclear wasteland ... show me a geek that isn't drooling by now.
I'm sure alot of geeks are doing more than drooling right about now...
Since the powers that be at Slashdot have once again shown what inconsiderate boobs they are, as have some of the readers of Slashdot (I can't believe you bastards that reload the poor girl's page just to see how fast the hit counter goes up), I have set up a mirror at:
http://www.myownlittleserver.us/chernobyl
My bandwidth may not be free, but I have a hell of a lot more of it than she does.
I have mirrored the whole site, as far as I can tell, except for the hit counter. The children among you have shown why its not good to have a public hit counter.
You whould think that a group of people who like to preach "information should be free" would try to have a little more respect. Information may be free, but unlimited bandwidth and server space is not.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Don't forget, she is cleared for nuclear wastelands. Because she didn't post personal information to the site I won't blow her cover, but with a little due dilligence you can find out that she didn't just buy one.
And that probably is enough to keep the average people from doing what she is doing. In fact, the checkpoint is probably there exactly to stop average people from doing what she is doing. I won't want anyone going in there that didn't have a professional appreciation of the idea that where you are may be safe but four feet to your right may be death. Plus that keeps the ghost town a ghost town, and not one of those terrible run-down tourist traps.
Besides, the concept of ecological armageddon tourism is just a little... Creepy.
The ______ Agenda
"road on Chernobyl
Time to fill bike with fuel and open throttle, we are on best road in this area, this one lead from big egg to Chernobyl. There is no commercial gas stations in a dead zone, so tank must be full. We don't need to run out of fuel on the middle of some nuclear desert."
I couldn't help but make the KIA association while looking at the photograph of the rear motorcycle. Just imagine the risk she is taking! What would happen to her if she had a flat tire, or some other mechanical breakdown in the wrong spot?
--
This space for rent
Isn't that what you put on fish?
Brave, kinda wacky girl who rides a motorcycle. Reminds me of a girlfriend I used to have. Too Cool.
In Capitalist America, the Russian Babe rides YOU!
"If God created us in his own image we have more than reciprocated." - Voltaire
This haunting bit of unintentional free verse is directly from her site:
She is native here and literate in issues of atom.
There are bad places where no one goes.
"...all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness..." yada yada
It's was quite boring to go on ellection where one could only vote for one candidate and for one party. People haven't been coming. Then, in order to bring people on ellections, authorities arranged free drinks.
Even in a two party system, this would be a nice enhancement!
sulli
RTFJ.
But you're not fooling anybody. Still.
modify BitTorrent perhaps? It is OSS IIRC...
Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
This was the best Slashdot article I've read to date. It's got a pretty young Russian girl riding around on a Ninja motorcycle through uninhabitable nuclear disaster areas taking pictures of everything, including herself. That pretty much does it for me.
Where's my lead suit?!?
A post a day keeps productivity at bay.
The correct word is "Tatars"
http://s87773201.onlinehome.us/kiddofspeed/ Just thought I'ld share the love, and my free webspace. HTTrack rules.
You already posted the mirror once. You don't need to whore karma. Mod the parent down.
just wanted to say 'thanks elena -- for being our eyes into this fascinating wasteland'.
your photo-journal is one of the most haunting things i've ever seen.
safe speed be with you.
john penner
(toronto)
I wonder how old they were on average when they went back. After 18 years I wouldn't be too surprised that many had died if they were generally seniors in the first place so how much effect does the pollution actually have? Someone must be keeping track of them if she can say how many are still alive and how many went back in. I think this is a good thing because we can study the effects of radiation exposure over long periods on willing subjects. I hope someone is checking on each resident and recording radiation levels where they live and at different times of the year.
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
new state motto
What are they all about? Are they good or are they whack?
Worried you might not keep your virginity forever? Try new Linux(TM), guaranteed twice as effective as LARPing
I'm not so sure she's safer.
The obvious potential hazard of the radiation aside, she has mentioned riding at high speeds as well as animals on the road slowing her down.
One of the mostest important aspects of driving or riding safely is expectations. A bike racer can expect that if he follows the leader at 180mph, and is only separated from his rivals back tire by an inch or two, he is in most regards, safe. You cannot do that while riding in public.
Elena's biggest safety risk may very well be "the unexpected".
Then she can find out how truly nice and insightful the Mongol-Tartar... uh, Slashdot community can be. (Once the trolls are filtered out, that is.)
The girl in the article mentioned among other things not having any cellular coverage there.
Since Chernobyl was permanently evacuated long before public cellular networks became prevalent in Easter Europe, no cellular towers were ever placed in that area.
The parent has a point: she's alone, quite a distance away from civilization in a desolate region, with no means of communication with the outside world. Comtemplating all of this, it is a bit scary indeed.
It might be a good idea to bring along a satellite phone next time, just in case.
She's a very brave young lady to undertake such an adventure! She sure has my respect.
"Oooh, does that mean we get to kick some puffy white mad zionist butt?"
let me agree with you. (of course the author will need to delete the approx. 200 marriage proposals...)
I work at a nuclear power plant, and there are fields in certain places that go upwards to 25 REM/h. So, what do you do? Don't stand near it and get your buddy to (unknowingly) shield you!
I agree, Elena's bike trip through Chernobyl is one hell of a photo-essay. While I am not able to do this, probably someone here can, namely, set up an account somewhere so we can chip in to help pay for the bandwidth we used from her hosting site.
As I skimmed each of the 26 chapters, I also saved them to disk, so I can look them over again, taking more more time on each, without taking up any more of her limited bandwidth.
BTM, her English is a whole lot better than my Russian.
Kudos and a big Thank You to Elena!
Bob
An analog gray hair frantically clinging to the trailing edge of technology.
Was this a joke? The link from the first page to the second points back to angelfire, redirecting traffic back to her site!
Big Daddy, Johnny, Burp, Aunt Zelda, Scott, Slurp, Big Momma
It's kind of funny how this is posted two days before the 25th anniversary of TMI, when there's a lot of stuff on TV talking about it.
I have something of a vested interest in nuclear disasters: I live in the small, wealthy town of Camp Hill, Pop. 7000, 12 miles from Three Mile Island.
This may not be PC, but my first thought was, damn! I'd like to still be dying of something after being nuked, almost 50 years later!
I know, war sucks, and all [hey, I watched Saving Private Ryan] but if you are gonna have one, you might as well do it right! Nuke your enemy. Christ, they way they run wars now-a-days, you'd think there was money to be made in it or something, rather than the principal... um, wait a minute...
Anyhow, the Sun will burn all the excess isotopes off the surface of this rock, sooner or later. Cheers.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
I mean, I dig chicks, I did bikes, especially Kaw's (H2 my persona fav), I dig russia , I mean hey a russian broad whos not afraid of a little roadrash OR radiation, sounds like a date to ME !
Even though the radiation levels are pretty low, would'nt it catch up if you hang around nuclear waste for too long? By her writing it looks like shes a regular visitor in the areas.
Not too many people would taken the risk of riding bikes in 'Ghosttowns' just to have an open road and good weather(my idea of god weather isnt snow).Even though she gives some brilliant insight into the whole matter.I had always imagined the chernobyl area to be a mess but this is the first time im seeing the photo's of a nuclear disaster site and it MORE than a mess.
Lord of the Binges.
this is amazing, and a perfect example of what the net is really about.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Elena's biggest safety risk may very well be "the unexpected".
On a bike (hell, anywhere in life, really) that is nearly always the demon factor that gets you... damned near got me once, twelve years ago, going into a series of S-turns that I'd been thru many times, and some dickhead had spilled pea gravel all over the low side of the bank - apparently spillover from shoulder maintenance.
Trashed the bike, but I more or less walked away. I was goddamned fucking lucky, tho.
SB
It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
The core didn't melt - caught FIRE. The reactor used carbon moderation and the carbon caught fire and carried the fuel with it's fission fragments into the air.
yep...
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Don't you mean Ukrainian?
I've been to Ukraine and have seen the sad state of affairs there (not in Kiev but in the east). Sadly, the outsides of the buildings look the same (in the city) everywhere. Communist "style" seems to be consistent even in a wasteland.
The women are beautiful though. Without a doubt, the women are absolutely beautiful.
Fishes that glow in darkness got banned already. Chicks come next.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
People have already theorized why sundays aren't present (different color, faded) but what do the characters to the left of the numbers mean? Image here. The top one looks like Pi then H.
Since when has this country used intellectual elite as a pejorative term?
It in fact blew the roof some 2,000 feet into the air spreading the worst of the worst particles far and wide.
White-hot graphite rods were exposed to cold water - these exploded and that was what caused the explosion. The outside world first learned of it when some Norwegian folks at a nuclear plant picked up some off the scale readings.
The majority of the reactor was buried under tons of concrete and steel (which is now in danger of cracking open). Many firefighters died attempting to contain nuclear fire and most of those had no idea what they were dealing with at the time.
More info here:
http://www.uic.com.au/nip22.htm
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
We must show her we can use the /.-effect for good, not evil. :-)
--Rob
Yes
Deaths from Three Mile Island: Zero
More people were killed in Nanking, China in one week period than both atomic bombs put together.
Chernobyl killed more people than both atomic bombs put together.
Today, Japan is one of the most powerful, and democratic, countries in the world.
armor doesn't have a u in it, you stupid fucking brit.
I found myself worrying about surface contamination as she walked through the buildings and on the tires of her motorcycle. She wasn't wearing gloves as she walked through the buildings nor booties.
She was very concerned about monitoring the direct radiation but what she might have stirred up is another issue. I hope she checked.
there have been some very near misses in the West as well. The classic one was 25 years ago at Thee Mile Island near Middletown, Pennsylvania. Interesting government style paper, but no sex appeal. Sorry.
It's an apt description of us anyways, no matter what the "most correct" word is. We have rampaged across the 'net leaving destruction in our wake. No where is safe: we shall decend upon you unexpectedly, pillage your music and movies, delight in your women, and rampage off to new conquests faster than the attention span of a child.... Our hordes shall be feared throughout the net!! Or at least by servers everywhere.....
This is the war room.
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/imag e4.3.jpg
;)
maybe someone should tell her what 'KIA' means
Yeah, right.
Come on, this is slashdot ... motorcycle riding photo-snapping babe through nuclear wasteland ... show me a geek that isn't drooling by now
I'm glowing right now!
Candle burns its brightest in the dark
For the visual information that came out of her camera, I'll gladly forgive her occasionaly poor command of the english language.
Very nice of you. But I figure her English is better than your Russian.
So because we have space shuttles blowing up and the Russian Soyuz rockets don't explode, should we be ashamed?
I'm sure this idea has been relayed already, but
I'm going to mention it again. Emphasis in this
matter certainly deserves no bounds.
9/11, Chernobyl (if there could be a comparison)
are prime examples that at a moments notice, your
Life can be flipped upside down.
I also live in San Diego. I wonder how many other
San Diegans realize one of the largest fusion reactors in the world sits right in their back yard? http://www.gat.com
It took less than 100 years to go from a simple airplane to traveling to the moon.
Do you really think nuclear waste is going to sit around for 10,000 years?
Do you not have schools in your little country?
I don't recall mentioning anyone being ashamed... nor did I make a comparison between the Americans and the former Soviets.
Do you have a complex?
Here
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
Favorite Sentence from Elena's Chernobyl Journalbyl?
"Beginning of a story about town where one can ride with no stoplights, no police, no danger to hit some cage or some dog."
"This motorbike has matured 147 horse powers, some serious bark, it is that fast like a bullet and comfortable for a long trips."
"Time do not ruin roads."
"Radiation sit on earth, on the grass, in apples and mushrooms."
"They are on check points and if they will find radiation on you vehicle, they give a chemical shower and this eat ya bike"
"This word [Chernobyl] scares holly bejesus out of people here."
"As we passing 86th kilometer we'll see this big egg."
"They eat food from own gardens, drink milk of their caws and claim that they are healthy, but we can't get away from facts, only 400 of them left out of 3.500."
"Evil wind brought here 70% of Chernobyl radiation."
"We don't need to run out of fuel on the middle of some nuclear desert."
This is fascinating, but admit it, folks, half the reason you enjoy this website is that the girl's cute and has just a touch of geekiness.
Since when is democracy a good thing? Fuck that shit. Why is some halfwit's opinion considered just as valuable as an intelligent person's?
...of the Elephant's Foot below reactor number four.
[ home ]
Wildlife isn't concerned about humans in general. Humans are more concerned about wildlife, and tend to wipe it out. In addition human activity tends to limit some animals, but those animals are not afraid of people, they just want to eat. Thus we have imbalances, in areas where humans are. Now that we have reached a point where we are not so concerned about eat animals and things are changing. There are deer in Minneapolis, and once in a while one makes it downtown. (parks and yards just outside of downtown are good deer habitat, downtown itself isn't) Bear have been known to eat from bird feeders not too far away either.
Humans do not intimidate animals. They are scared at first, but that passes. After that it is a matter of can they live. Some do better around humans than others, but unless humans are hunting animals do not learn fear of people. (and in city situations hunting is rare)
I hope you are now posting at -1 by default, Sir Goatse-a-lot.
"Homer, your bravery and quick thinking have turned a potential Chernobyl into a mere Three-mile island. Bravo"
At this rate she could take a bike tour of the US and Canada and be wined & dined by a continent full of geeks.
Forget "Europe on $5 a Day"... Elena could do "6 months in the US for free".
--Rob
"this event displaced tens of thousands of people"
The displacement was in the MILLIONS. The area was densely populated. Also, Kiev, the capital of Ukraine, was nearby, about 3 mln. residents. I was there when this happened. As soon as the rumors of what actually happened started to spread, everyone who could, left. It was close to ghost town all summer and for the next year, probably 2.5 mln left, very few people remained. Some left forever. Overall, probably close to 7-10 mln moved.
God, I wish there was a way to email her, or leave a comment on her website... I mean, she's gut guts and a really cool head. Maybe a little help with the english in some spots could help, but DAMN!!! She was lucky herself, her father knowing and getting her and her father out of the place... I also have a few questions, did she ever happen to see any weird animals? Back in the mid-nineties (I was about 10 then...) there were rumors of double-headed veals, 8 legged newborn horses and featherless chickens (which by now we have without radiation!) and plants that looked like they came from a prehistoric age... Elena, your sharing of those pictures with the world might help teach mankind of the power of science and avoid an even worse thing from happening again. And that is something you can be proud of, even if your life is short, you have accomplished a great deal by revealing publicly one of the taboos of the modern world. For this I would like to thank you. John
---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
That was *really* amazing. --pete
No doubt she's on the OSDN singles network, sign up and check her out! ;-)
I mod down all the "free iPod"-sig losers.
...boshemoi...
The USSR had their government to cover things up and we've our share of businesses that let profit get ahead of the well being of their neighbors and the environment. A simple and easily approached example might be to watch the movie Erin Brockovich. Not all wide spread disasters were (and will be) of a nuclear nature.
Favorite Sentence from Elena's Chernobyl Journalbyl?
1. "Beginning of a story about town where one can ride with no stoplights, no police, no danger to hit some cage or some dog."
2. "This motorbike has matured 147 horse powers, some serious bark, it is that fast like a bullet and comfortable for a long trips."
3. "Time do not ruin roads."
4. "Radiation sit on earth, on the grass, in apples and mushrooms."
5. "They are on check points and if they will find radiation on you vehicle, they give a chemical shower and this eat ya bike"
6. "This word [Chernobyl] scares holly bejesus out of people here."
7. "As we passing 86th kilometer we'll see this big egg."
8. "They eat food from own gardens, drink milk of their caws and claim that they are healthy, but we can't get away from facts, only 400 of them left out of 3.500."
9. "Evil wind brought here 70% of Chernobyl radiation."
10. "We don't need to run out of fuel on the middle of some nuclear desert."
That's one of the coolest, neatest, most awe inpsiring things I've ever seen on Slashdot. I'm not sure why exactly, but it is :-)
-psy
"Label tells- motorcycle Chezet, 26hp, 343cc, price 1050 rubles... Chezet! that was a dream bike for all young people in a Soviet Union. Crowd of boys have been hunging around in those stores dreaming of what they could do with 26 hp bike if Grandpas had only 15 ponnies and how can you afford it,"
I would have thought that the worker's paradise (of all places) would be selling engines rated in kilowatts.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/29/199209 &mode=thread&tid=134
Ukraine 03187 Kiev-187 Zabolotnogo 20/A Post Box 25 Elena
You can send her a nice postcard, as I did.
Hmmm. Maybe their filming another sequel in Ukraine.
by your tinfoil hat ;-)
More importantly, we should come together as a species and help one another, ofcourse it would only happen on a show like Star Trek, but it's wishful thinking for the better.
I too agree that the USSR should be ashamed and we should be Proud Americans.
Yes, when the world comes to an end, I too want everyone to remember the numerous toxic waste sites, polluted rivers, and massive deforestation of United States of America. I too want to stand proud of all the positive things my country has done for our enviroment.
Come on, you can't blame the entire USSR for that accident, though their government did downplay the damage of the event in the typical Russian way. If anyone should be ashamed it's probably the idiots inside the plant that cause the disaster to take place. I'm sure they new full well what could happen if they did what they did, but they went ahead and did it anyway. Now all that's left is an area frozen in time.
The dead zone and these abandoned buildings seem like a prime laboratory for the study of what happens to unmaintained materials and objects. It also provides a stunning visual idea of how a post-human earth will look once a killer disease or neutron war finally wipes us all out. It's creepy looking at these pictures when you think that this is a snapshot of our future.
The flag just makes more sense than the constitution. - Judas Gutenberg
You could start there: http://www.google.com/search?q=nuclear+waste+radio active+pollution
I'd take that tour. If I could take it on a Ducati 999 with no speed limits (and obviously no insurance - kind of like diving with sharks). Maybe take a shot at Elena in 6th gear, :)
Oh, well. At least the world we live in is not entirely devoid yet of extraordinary individuals in extraordinary places.
Q: What is the cost of chicken in Kiev market?
A: Life.
They call it magic wood because you get wood magically while reading this story.
So if I follow you correctly she is probably loosing one day of her life for every trip through the zone?
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
The world is full of small risks. Deal with it. You can't escape radiation -- you need it to live! (Unless you're an abyssal sea-dweller, of course.) But you probably run less risk from every-day radiation then you do from driving 10 MPH over the speed limit on your way home from work!
I recently worked on a project with a group of radiologists at the research university I'm employed by to develop an expert system to more quickly train operators of portable ultrasound imaging equipment. This group is part of a world wide organization of physicians dealing with the long term irradiation effects of hundreds of thousands of people exposed to Chernobyl's fallout. Specifically, detecting thyroid cancer with ultrasound requires much experience and there is great urgency to speed training to detect these cancers early before they become too advanced for successful treatment. This group began monitoring residents in the fallout area shortly after the accident was made public. Children exposed then are now beginning to show higher rates of thyroid cancers.
That would be Tatars rather than Tartars. A Mongol tartar is what you'd get at a russian tavern at the end of 15th century.
Given all that I'm surprised her hit counter is only in the 60K or so range.
And, given the attention it was getting, I'd hope that angelfire was smart enough to recognize that making the pages available would be to their own benefit as well as to ours (and Elena's).
Stupid fucking Yank, it does. There's no such thing as US english.
First - Amazing site. What a treat. One of the best websites ever.
/. Or just run an auction for a one of a kind.
I can vaguely remember when this happened, it was early highschool for me, so I of course I dont remember much. But the tell of the tape in these photos is that this was one aweful human experience that is still being lived in scattered unseen ways. I.E. where are all the families now, etc. I think people knew it was bad then. But really, nothing was shown, imagine the firemen being ordered in! All those trucks are really startling. And the family photos. It makes it all so personal. Really the government never wants you to know much. The slice of reality we saw almost 20 years ago was not close to what can be gleaned in these images.
The lesson is for the consuming public (me.. and you) and the journalists. the bad things are much worse then we are told, have acess too, and the spin is always more insideous than it seems.
Ok, enough preachy.
lastly, I bet this girl can pay for all her bandwith for the next hundred years if she put up some posters of herself on that bike in the hot zone for sale here on
It's was quite boring to go on ellection where one could only vote for one candidate and for one party. People haven't been coming. Then, in order to bring people on ellections, authorities arranged free drinks.
And I though George(c) thought of everything, I guess he still has a margin for improvement in his campaign.
Murphy
Fixed that problem with it going back to Angelfire.. hehehe
Elena, I add my thanks and congratulations to you for shooting these haunting photographs, and providing your commentary to accompany them.
Bolshoi spasibo; i berech'. (Many thanks, and keep safe.)
Doing my level best to piss off the religious right wing...
no text
Cause she says she uses a "researcher's pass" somehwere.
those numbers that are being quoted are for a burst dose -- ie you get it all at once. the effects change if you get a continuous, lower dose to the same levels.
I'm currently in the Navy's Nuclear Engineer school (2 more weeks and hopefully I'll be a certified nuclear engineer! hooray!). I don't have the numbers memorized, but this is along the lines of what they tell us (and yes, it's unclassified):
1 Rem = 1 mRem (milliRem)
The following are effects from burst doses
Prognossis: Excellent
Effects: none
Treatment: tell the guys he's a dumbass for thinking there's a problem
Prognossis: Excellent
Effects: none
Treatment: have him see a doctor just to make sure, but there's still really no problem. possible rise in chance to get cancer.
Prognossis: Good
Effects: headache. 5% chance of vomitting within 4 hrs.
Treatment: seek medical attention.
Prognossis: OK
Effects: headache. 50% chance of vomitting within 2 hr. 5% chance of death within 4 months.
Treatment: seek medical attention immediately.
Prognossis: Guarded
Effects: headache. 100% chance of vomiting within 1 hr. 50% chance of death within a short period (can't rememebr the time).
Treatment: better get him to a doctor NOW!
Prognossis: hopeless
Effects: headache. 100% chance vomitting within 30 min. 100% chance of death within 48 hrs.
Treatment: Give him sedatives. Call the morgue.
For those that are curious, the guys on K-19 probably got more than 5000 Rem.
And what do these mean? here are some numbers to compare against:
I work daily 15 feet from an operational reactor (I work on US submarines).
my exposure last month: 4 mrem.
my lifetime exposure:
The radiation levels in the Reactor Compartment 15 minutes after shutting down the reactor: ~50 mRem/hr (avg)
a day at the beach: 10 mRem per day
smoking for a year: 1 Rem
standing next to a bag of fertilizer: 2 mRem / day
eating a banana: 4 mRem each
those numbers are mostly from betas and gammas. alphas only affect you if you get them inside you, which is why smokers get so much radiation, and neutron mostly is (a) really low-level and (b) passes right through you.
so what's my point?
1. I get less radiation from work that I do from living.
2. those numbers that they got from Chyrnobl are HUGE, but they can't happen on US Naval Reactors. Even if we were to completely melt down and spray our stuff all over the place, we would still be relatively clean (we use tiny reactors; we only need to power a 300' boat to 25+ knots, we don;t need to power an entire metropolis). besides, the most likely time that would occur is if we get hit with a depth charge, at which point's we'll sit on the bottom of the ocean and get covered with a whole hell of a lot of water!
weylin
67.5% Slashdot Pure I guess I need to work on that....
Entry: American English
Must be a windows user.
*ducks*
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
oops. sorry. 1 Rem = 1000 mRem.
sorry. my bad
weylin
67.5% Slashdot Pure I guess I need to work on that....
...it makes her hot in more ways than one.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
So you're suggesting trying to bluff your way past a Russian military checkpoint into a restricted area, using a fake ID you've assembled from scans on the net?
You first.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Human genome = 3 billion base pairs = 6 GBit. Windows + Office = 20 Gbit. Which is more impressive?
I do not want to discount the bombs, but those people probably die from old age far more than from radiation. The nuclear attack occurred almost 60 years ago.
Wow, best underrated funny comment of the month.
Don't you have some high chlorides in the port main condensate header to attend to :)?
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
Maybe pear trees? sapient pear trees? If so, looks like a nice place to put a luggage factory.
Her English is better than my Russian, Italian, Spanish, Latin...
The SF novel _How Like A God_ by Brenda Clough had this guy named Gilgamesh living in the middle of a Ruskie nuke testing desert because he didn't want to be around people.
As a long-time rider, I can assure you that any bike rider's biggest safety risk is _ALWAYS_ the unexpected. This is just as true in racing (what happens when the lead bike blows a gasket?) as it is in street riding.
;)
Although Elena's site focuses more on the result than the process, I get the impression that she is an experienced rider, and thus cannot fail to be aware of that.
There ARE only two kinds of motorcycle riders, after all -- those that have had accidents, and those that will. (And the two are NOT mutually exclusive, what's worse.
But one doesn't ride a motorcycle because one is concerned about one's safety among all else, either....
(I echo an earlier poster's sentiments about the appeal of women who ride!)
If you're not living on the edge, you're just taking up space!
Motorcycle. $4000
Camera. $300
Black leather jackett. $200
Making Slashdot readers drool lustfully. Priceless.
You guys are making jokes, but I'm sorry... this is the most haunting thing I've read in a long time.
It's telepathy.
--Rob
Towards the Singularity.
If I keep walking all the way to reactor, then at the end of a journey I will glow in a dark. May be this is why they call it a magic wood. this sort of a magic when one walk in in a biker leather and coming out like a knight in a shinning armour.
There was a 1000, bad, russian comedians who died during the Chernobyl disaster and this lady's trying to be funny....
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
She'd be a great slashdot interview.
And if either she and/or her interviewer are ever in Grand Rapids, I'll buy their favorite beverage.
One can only imagine what it would be like to speak with her -- her experiences would be fascinating to heard described, and for our curious questions to be answered. Great mods in the sky, please hear this AC's plea.
Back in the early 80's a small town - Times Beach, Missouri was found to have dioxin sprayed on the dirt streets and caused the government to buy out the whole town and relocate everybody.
It is eery to drive down I-44 just outside of St. Louis and see this town that is totally deserted. just sitting there...
I've moved from the area since so have not seen it in a few years so don't know what it looks like today, but it was said that the streets contained 2,000,000 times the amount of dioxin considered to be a dangerous level.
People living there would rake up dead birds and animals died at an alarming rate. over 50 horses died at a single stable from the spraying.
Now it is just a ghost town frozen in time from the early 80's.
A massive cleanup was to be put in place collecting the dirt, processing it and later putting back the cleaned dirt... but it may be a never ending project.
Any locals from St. Louis area care to elaborate further and update what is going on and if the town is still there?
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
-alone, quite a distance away from civilization in a desolate region, with no means of communication with the outside world.
My definition of paradise...
Elena -
:-)
Thank you for your wonderfull photography, and a great website detailing your trips into the "Dead Zone". I hope to one day create/capture half the number of compelling photos as you already have in your life.
And please forgive us Mongol-Tartars Slashdot readers for making your hit counter spin like crazy.
Plans to build a steel shell around reactor #4...hope it gets built soon...
Fallout boy meet fallout girl. God I loved that game and Wasteland too.....her photojournal is making me long for the Vault.
I'll get to that after I fix the clogged seawater system, and the SCRAM the reactor operator inserted to fix it :-)
weylin
67.5% Slashdot Pure I guess I need to work on that....
For all interested in Elena's wonderful, interesting site, you may be interested in this book on Amazon, it is called:
2 321&link_code=as1
Legacy: Photographs From the Chernobyl Exclusion
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASI N/1899235582/raretshirts-20?creative=125581&camp=
Elliott Smith Tribute CD available now on Double D Records! Visit www.doubledrecords.com to order.
In Capitalist America, the Russian Babe rides YOU!
For a fee... of course...
Or possibly for a green card?
the photo at the bottom is in the ovie demo for the game stalker, which is set in this area. Nice to see how real its looking.
Do you need a website upgrade?
You're right about alpha being much worse than gamma, but that's only if it gets to you. Alpha is stopped by a decent amount of air, or your clothing or even your epidermis without harming you. It really harms you if you ingest it and it can get to your cells without passing through clothes first.
So, since she's not eating any of the dirt around her, she'll be fine. I suppose she should watch for dust storms, though.
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
This is the highest building in town. In a day of disaster people gothered on the roof of this builing and have been looking at a beautiful shining above Atomic Plant. This was the shinning of radiation.
http://www.radiationworks.com/sl1reactor.htm
Not too many people know about it but there was a mis-hap in idaho. The operators were trying to do some type of rod drop test. The man was physically pulling on the control rod. It was stuck. When it finally gave, he pulled it too far. The Rx went promptcritical, shot the rod out, impaling him, and supposedly pinning him to the roof.
When I try to view the counter now, it gives me a broken image. Perhaps it can't count that high? ;)
Junkyard digger's heaven... wow. Too bad it's all contaminated.
It's listed at anti-slash.org right now. The link will alternate from mirror to Bearload link; it uses one of anti-slash's troll tools.
RAD: absorbed dose of 0.01 J
REM = RAD x QF
Where QF is a number of much debate for neutrons, alphas, and betas. Its based on 1 for gammas, everything else depends on who you ask.
Its a common mistake to say 1 Roentgen is 1 Rad. First you only get Roentgen's in air and energies less than 3 million electron volts. Second if you're in a 1 Roentgen/hr field you're getting 0.7 Rad/hr. Nearly everyone rounds it up to 1 to 1 to save on the calculator which is going to cause a big problem one of these days.
We'll kick your ass in war if we have to... Again.
> Even if we were to completely melt down and spray our stuff all over the place, we would still be relatively clean
If you read the section of the Navy waterchem manual entitled "Reactor Plant Chemistry" it has a list of the reasons for chemistry control and I think its the 6th? one down that states.
"An operating reactor contains over 1 billion curies of activity..."
Which even at a good distance is a ridiculous dose rate. I think that a nice spray of our stuff all over the place would in fact be double plus ungood.
Best shielding for:
Gammas: DU or lead
Betas: Plastic, water (avoid metal at all costs, especially heavy metals)
Alpha: Basically anything
Neutron: Parafin to slow them down and lithium to absorb them
An x-ray is made by slamming an electron into a heavy, dense metal, usually tungsten in machines. A beta is a very fast electron so shield them with metal and you have an x-ray source.
This chick is fsck'ing crazy.. but thinking about it and her descriptions... she's pretty damn cool too (but still plenty crazy)
That the story is powerful and compelling has been stated by people far more insightful and eloquent than me, but something that I haven't seen is anybody pointing out the fact that we are able to read it at all.
This story is the most perfect example I have seen of how the internet puts the awesome power of truly global communication into the hands of the average person.
These pictures weren't distributed by Clear Channel, the Associated Press, or CNN. Some Russian chick just gassed up her scoot and created a world-class photo essay that thousands of people around the world are able to appreciate for nothing. I mean, for the love of Pete, they're posted on Angelfire!
The Dalai LLama
power to the people, indeed...
My sig could be your sig!
This sounds familiar, except Soviet America, they call the Party by two different names...
I've often felt that in states where there is a mandatory helmet law, riders should be allowed to ride without a helmet. As long as they're identified as an 'organ donor' on their driver's license.
---
I would think the folks of Three Mile Island would identify most although that one was contained. I live and work near Hanford, Washington which incidentally has a graphite reactor like Cherynobyl. This piece has an extra poignancy. Running about 11-13 Roegnen around here I see those figures os hundreds and go, "Oh boy!". Don't go stirring up the dust around that place and take an internal deposition of nasty stuff. Yet, hauling ass on a bike and stay ahead of the wake and you would minimize exposure in a sort of way that would make a U.S. Rad Tech. freak purple twinkies. Closest equivalent in the U.S. would be to do a tour of an old nuclear missile silo.
OK, I'm probably just being paranoid, but...
What if this is a piece of guerrilla marketing for Kawasaki, in the same vein as the "robot built from a Mini Cooper" thing that was posted on Slashdot a couple of weeks back? Elena mentions a couple of times how much she loves her 147-horsepower Kawasaki, and her story embodies everything that motorbike marketing seeks to convey -- adventure, discovery, going-it-alone-ness -- plus, hey, she's a cute chick.
Please don't label me a cynic for this and hear me out. I myself am not at all sure this is a fake, on the contrary. There were a few points, though, that seemed kind of suspicious to me. Elena, if your story is real (and I want to believe it is), please forgive me...
OK, here's the first point I found strange: Just how many young women in the Ukraine can afford to buy a 147-horsepower, top-of-the-line Kawasaki motorbike? The rest of her gear (including that Kawasaki jacket) is nice too... Now you might point out that her dad is a nuclear physicist... but AFAIA, nuclear scientists in the former USSR don't get paid quite as well as their Western counterparts. (Remember all those scare stories of Russian scientists helping unsavoury nations build the bomb because their salary at home won't pay the bills?)
Next, the language. It's a tough call, but it sounds to me as if this is a native speaker trying to sound foreign. On one hand, Elena's English is full of elementary mistakes -- she gets her articles wrong all the time, mixes up singular and plural, uses the wrong tenses. On the other hand, though, she sometimes handles idiom very competently: "back in 1986", "they speak for themselves", "diary of a teacher is interesting read" (of course, the articles are wrong, but the use of "read" as a noun in this way is a typically English idiom). And check out this sentence: "Here is map that shows radiation level in different parts of dead zone and which I updated for our local biker club in March 16 of this year." What is the grammar rule that this sentence so ably demonstrates? A relative clause that is defining should use "that", whereas a relative clause that gives additional information must use "which". Want to tell me that Elena has the grammatical savvy to get this right (many native speakers don't) but doesn't know she should say "a map" and "the dead zone"?
Let's turn to the pictures. There's one picture that I'm convinced is a fake, but I'll admit the real Elena could have done it herself, just to spice things up a bit. I'm talking about the "television picture":
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/ch ap ter14.html
To me, there's no way that the proportions in that picture are right. If that much of her really fits into the screen, that TV is BIG! (Think they had TVs that size in the Ukraine in 1986?) There's a reflection (presumably from the flash) on the TV -- why, then, no reflection on her sunglasses? Also, if you look at the shadow that the TV and part of the "reception desk" cast on the wall, it looks as if the desk is pretty much backed up against the wall -- not a lot of space for Elena to stand. All in all, this picture has "tourist guy" written all over it...
There are no other pictures that are as obviously bogus, but my impression is that all of the pictures that show Elena before a background that is clearly in the "dead zone" could have been composited quite easily. As I say, nothing that's obviously fake, but I'd like to point out one more picture that my "realness instinct" is slightly uneasy about:
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/ch ap ter6.html
(the one where she's looking through the binoculars). Is it the reflections on her jacket, even though the sky is overcast (true, could be the flash)? Is it that she seems to be too big relative to the size of the road? Is it where her (and the photographer) seem to be standing? Seems she's just on the edge of the road or slightly on
That's probably what he meant. He made quite a profound statement.
that blue light at the bottom of the pool was probably the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. There's just no way to describe the color. It's so vivid and so intense.
Indeed! I've seen it twice, a first time in a research reactor was not very impresive, and a second... oh my! in a visit to an industrial irradiation plant using cobalt-60. That one I'll never forget. We got to stand by the pool (more like an inundated shaft) where the cobalt rods were stored, several meters underwater below us. Then they turned off the lights! We stood there, the only light being the eerie blue ?erenkov coming from below! My knees weakened more than a little, I confess.
Well, kudos to Lena. Some story to tell her children (or may be not, oh my!)
I'm not sure it's a matter of the animals not caring about a shortened lifespan "as long as they are freed from the intimidating human presence."
Lots of animals actually tend to do much better in what we would consider dangerous levels of radiation than the average human would. While there are still negative effects, they tend to be less pronounced in animals.
While Elena's site does not mention it, even in disaster areas that claimed the lives of humans (citizens who did not evacuate and rescue workers) very quickly, the animal populations in those areas continued living for a much longer period of time, although most of the animals did eventually die from the radiation, as well.
And of course wild animals are going to take over somewhere that humans have moved out of, they're going to exist whereever they can, even within range of "the intimidating human presence."
Quoting chapter 6:
Some tell that 400.000 dead, soyuzchernobyl report of 300.000 people that died since 1986 and this is not over, in 30 years people will still die
These numbers are WILDLY inflated! The number of deaths from radiation are probably rather in the dozens. Check here, or here
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
She's not Russian. She's Ukrainan. There is a huge fucking difference.
she included her mail address though.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
Animals try to survive and reproduce wherever they can. Who are you to say that animal care or don't care?
There are deer in Minneapolis because there aren't enough people hunting them in the surrounding areas. I would think a metro bow season would be appropriate.
We'll wait for the Iraqi resistance to finish kicking yours first. We've got the time.
The town of Centralia, Pennsylvania has been on fire (or rather the coal beneath the town has) for more than 40 years. Check it out here:
a li a.htm
http://www.offroaders.com/album/centralia/centr
http://www.welton.it/davidw/
Tony Blair is going to get his ass kicked out of office and you are going to get a pussy as Prime Minister. He is going to take a stance similar to Spain's. Both of your countries will be assraped by terrorists because they know you are fucking weak.
Not that I have any experience in the matter, but I'm not sure there's a huge fucking-difference.
Let's just hope no-one does anything stupid and evil that makes us abandon another city in this way...
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
I think a couple of bottles of Vodka and some Kolbasa (sausage) and maybe some cucumbers would do the trick- no ID needed.
--Coder
One some sites, they say that there are cat fish in the lake around the plant that are large enough to swallow a loaf of bread whole.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
After looking around, I found this site about tours of the exclusion zone.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
Don't you know any geography? Can't you even read? She isn't Russian. She's Ukrainian. There's no worse insult you can make to a Ukrainian than to call them Russian.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
The highest radiation she talks about is 8R/h, more than 2000x than what you state.
"who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars."
"...what is best in life?"
"To slashdot your enemies, see their hit counters roll over before you, and to hear the lamentation of their servers!"
Carthago delenda est!
Subject says it all, really. She would make a great subject for a short documentary movie, taking a ride through the dead zone and talking about it. I would pay to watch it. I might even invest in it. It wouldn't cost very much to make.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
That's like saying that there's a huge difference between someone from Maine and someone from Canada.
May we never see th
Interesting map and info at Radon Map.
I lived for a year in a brick house in Wyoming, which is chock full of granite and uranium.
Wyoming: if the weather, the animals, or the locals won't kill ya', the radiation will!
(Assuming, of course, that you're smart enough to not go skinny dipping in a random hotspring....)
~UP
Eat the Path.
http://www.ninja-assassin.com/mirror/Chernobyl/ It has some more pics of Elena and her story
Listen. Only Americans drop the us from words like armour, colour, honour. Why? Because the want to seperate themselves from the rest of the world. Don't complain if someone spells somthing differntly then you do. All it will gain you is a flame war, which annoys those of use who are here to learn and enrich our minds.
I don't have time to comment my code, the program is late already.
In Capitalist America, the Russian Babe rides YOU!
A variation of the old, worn-out "In Soviet Russia" joke that's actually funny?
I'll go see if Hell's frozen over yet...
Elena has started posting on sport-touring.net.
When someone put up a mirror, worried about bandwidth, Elena asked him to take it down because she was concerned that her updates wouldn't get propagated, and that people would only see an old version.
elena
I asked to remove copied site, because need to update and need to make some corrections.
Original Elena post here.
While I realize that folks just want to help out, I think that, given that this is Elena's work (and one that she had to venture into hazardous environments to produce and is giving away freely), her wishes should be respected WRT mirrors. (That doesn't mean that I'm not going to make a personal wget -rk --no-parent'ed copy just in case the site ever goes away permanently, though.)
May we never see th
This deed that you have done is invaluable. As a human being and as a historian-in-training, I am humbled by what you have presented. The impact, emotionally and otherwise, that this gives... I don't think I have any words suitable to describe it.
All I can say is that you are a beautiful person, both inside and out.
Pax Vobiscum,
Ted
Eat the Path.
If you read a bit further in the thread I linked to in my parent post, you'll also notice that Elena removed her facial portrait and email address (leaving only the postal address) from her original pages -- the body of her documentary work is still present, without some of the personal information. She originally deliberately took her site down for a short period after it first "hit the Web awareness". As folks have noticed, there has been a lot of online commenting on her sex appeal, etc, and a good guess is that she's been uncomfortable with the email that she's been getting since her original site was put up.
Seriously -- appreciate the work for what it is -- a unique, honest set of images and insights into the most horrific nuclear disaster the world has ever seen. However, please try and avoid creeping the author out. I'd like to continue to see more of this material.
Thanks.
May we never see th
At some point Elena writes:
f
"who can count how many people died of radiation? no one, even approximately. Some tell that 400.000 dead,soyuzchernobyl report of 300.000 people that died since 1986 and this is not over, in 30 years people will still die"
This is probably not realistic. In 2002 the UN published a repport, which described the effects of the accident.
You can find it here:
http://www.undp.org/dpa/publications/chernobyl.pd
Here I quote some of the passages, which describes the worst consequences of the accident:
1.26 "Morbidity in the affected areas continues to reflect the pattern in other parts of the Former Soviet Union".
1.28 "No reliable evidence has emerged of an increase in leukemias, which had been predicted to result from the accident. Howerver, som two thousand cases of thyriod cancer have so far been diagnosed among young people exposed to radioactive iodine in April and May 1986. According to conservative extimates, this figure is likely to rise to 8-10.000 over the coming years. While thyroid cancer can be treated, all of these people will need continuing medical attention".
4.15 Box 4.2
"The most prominent deterministic effect following the Chernobyl accident was the death of 28 highly exposed individuals from acute radiation sickness within 4 months of exposure. (In addition, up to the end of 1998 eleven others have died)."
----
So in 1998 39 peoble had died because of the accident, and 2000 cases of thyriod cancer had been diagnosed. This type of cancer is treatable, but some of these cases may die because of the missing opportunities for treatment in the area.
Although the death of 39 people (and probably some more since 1998) certainly is a tragedy it is not comparable to the 3-400.000 Elena mentions.
One thing that strikes me - this area is a sort of Soviet-era time-capsule - some things are left as they were on the day of evacuation. When the radiation dies down, someone will buy it up and turn it into a theme park..
"You lied to me! There is a Swansea!"
Don't cry for me Argentina. /IMF rant
This woman's story is too fascinating to be denied a wider exposure. Where are the film crews? A girl on a motorcycle riding around irradiated wasteland warrants at least a documentary. Filmmakers take note.
Isn't there a tire-fire in Springfield or somesuch. Seems somewhat related on a philosophical/Simpsons level.
The mods will decide I suppose.
Party on Wayne... (goes to Tim Horton's for an Ice Cap)
Yuo get modded as "insightful" for stating the obvious.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
pretty comprehensive resource
What an absolutely offensive comment. If you have any guts, try making similar comments towards a visible minority and we'll see how funny people think you are. Andrew, a Ukrainian-Canadian.
Would be nice to see this published in a book.
Maybe Oreilly would want to publish their first
coffee table book.
Public? The centre of a nuclear dead-zone is public now?
You really are the optimist on board, aren't you? :P
Hate me!
Articles like this are why I haven't given up on slashdot despite all the MS vs Unix crap.
Grab the book "We Almost Lost Detroit". It is about the partial meltdown of Fermi #1 (if I remember right). The book details the issues involved on how an afterthought design change that was believed to help out in case of a core meltdown backfired and almost caused what it was to help control.
Pardon the horrid number slang, but the subject line is too damn short. Has anyone actually sent her $ to upgrade her bandwidth? There was talk of it with the last article, but I didn't I hear anything more. Maybe start a fund (pity PayPal isn't trustable). I mean, her page is a public service, I would give her money. If there was an easy way how. She posted a mailing address but I don't trust Russian post.
I agree and disagree at the same time. I know that you are right in that animals are not necessarily afraid, as long as the culture of the people living there is of a respectful kind. I live in Finland, and here people seem to genuinely like the wildlife, and take pride in the peaceful, almost harmonious coexistence that even urban areas like the capital itself, enjoy. I can personally say that there's nothing as relaxing after a hard day at work as watching a bunch of squirrels chasing each other, in front of my feet, or interacting with me in funny ways that surprise me many times. These little beasts have saved me from countless burnouts. The wild rabbits and pheasants are nice, too. The bears may not be as nice, but I have not met them personally, yet. They really do try to keep away from humans.
Now, said all that, I also have to add that it's not just the animals' choice: unfortunately, human population is increasing unstoppably, gradually encroaching the natural habitat of these beasts. Most people's solution to this problem is to hunt down the animals. I find that barbaric, and in the long run, devastating for humanity itself.
Sigged!
In western Europe we were told that most of the core material was trapped underneath the concrete sarcophagus that engineers died for when created. Imagine our shock as we heard that the sarcophagus was starting to break down recently. What would come from underneath? Do we need to send money and robots to seal the sarcophagus?
Finding the truth was hard, but researchers found that the radiation was low, expeditions were set up right down into the sarcophagus, what we found was that the disaster was bigger then reported by international organizations. Almost all core material had escaped during the disaster. Even today we were told that most had been contained. The environmental damage had been way bigger then even recently calculated.
This conclusion also had a strange side effect. The breaking down of the sarcophagus is no new disaster, we don't have to costly fix it. All that we could do is build a simple roof so that rain water is kept out and that groundwater is not polluted anymore then it already is, so that wildlife has more chance. Then just wait for radiation to slowly reduce by itself.
Dennis SCP (source: Public TV noorderlicht.vpro.nl)
Ok Folks, don't want to be picky, but just for your information, the name is:
Roentgen
Konrad Roentgen
He discovered the X-Ray, btw.
Curiously, they're called Roentgen-Rays (Roentgenstrahlen) in germany.
R o e n t g e n
Roentgen.
Closest pronounciation in english would be 'Rent-gen'. Make a hard 'g', like in 'gender'.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
You maniacs! You blew it up! Oh, damn you! God damn you all to hell!
2. those numbers that they got from Chyrnobl are HUGE, but they can't happen on US Naval Reactors. Even if we were to completely melt down and spray our stuff all over the place, we would still be relatively clean (we use tiny reactors; we only need to power a 300' boat to 25+ knots, we don;t need to power an entire metropolis). besides, the most likely time that would occur is if we get hit with a depth charge, at which point's we'll sit on the bottom of the ocean and get covered with a whole hell of a lot of water! :-)
How would you compare a submarine carrying nuclear warheads in this respect?
Don't get me wrong, I'm pro nuclear (energy)! Just curious.
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
The entire place is creepy enough, corpses in abandoned vehicles would be too much.
Newsflash: All gods are invented by humans.
I've driven through Love Canal, all the deserted houses looking like people just stepped out, the lawns still mowed, the bright green grass over the clay containment facility, and new tract housing not to far away. Eerie.
There are many pictures with her in the foreground. They are taken from relatively high angles (eye-level) which would lead me to belive there was another person taking the picture (vs. balancing a camera on timer on her bike). I do not think her all alone.
(Assuming, of course, that you're smart enough to not go skinny dipping in a random hotspring....)
Please enlighten this dumb city slicker about why that's a bad thing. I spent a couple of weeks out near Jackson Hole, and the locals showed me a few isolated springs to hang out in. I wore swim trunks, and didn't drink any of it, but that just seems like common sense.
A host is a host from coast to coast...
Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
And she's brilliant,and a risk taker. Need I say more?
thats pretty fuckedu p
It's nice to see that Babelfish has made such great strides in translation.
That's just what we do when we get REALLY pissed off.
Hiroshima and Nagisaki were toasted with kiloton devices.
Our fusion triggers are bigger than that, now.
Multiple warheads per ICBM; Thousands ready at a moments notice;
Now THAT's a superpower.
My only question is: Who's next?
Any votes?
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
Getting futher off topic ;), the usual justification for helmet laws is the cost of maintaining the vegetable formerly known as a rider. The cost of cleanup is typically less than an auto accident, if it comes to that.
Since I'd rather not become said veggie, I wear a helmet even though it is not _really_ required by my state (which specifies "adequate head protection", but does not define same).
Either way, though, helmetless or not, I'm not likely to injure you inside your huge steel wrapper, so why do you care if I'm an organ donor? (I am, but that's beside the point.)
Every day people perform activities which have much more inherent risk than not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle. Would you have all of those people be requisite organ donors, as well?
If you're not living on the edge, you're just taking up space!
Drop spent nuclear fuel into a tectonic subduction zone.
Problem solved. Now you just have to find a waste disposal company who can do it cheaply and reliably. SOMEONE will find a way.
+++ATH0
What is interesting is that wildlife seems to be thriving in some of "not so hot" areas. I'm curious if nature will evolve creatures in these zones that are genetically more resilient to the radiation effects.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
What kinda surprises me is that she goes into the zone wearing leathers and no additional protection. Don't those leathers soak up some of that radiation.
I would suspect she'd have access to radiation gear since her father is a nuclear scientist. Basically, just wear the radiation suit over the leathers so they don't get contaminated.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Getting out in the Sun gets you some radiation as well. Hopefully, we can keep the Ozone layer intact so that level won't be climbing.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Heat Exchanger. A good house will compeletely exchange the air in a couple hours.
But I do agree that excessive insulation against air leaks is
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
does her recent popularity on Slashdot count as her 15 minutes of fame?
i'm tired of slashdot trying to take credit for stories or pages that were available way before they ever even knew they existed. all i ever see now is 'originally slashdot had this news story 5 years ago' blah blah blah, no one cares. quit taking credit from other pages
My firewall lit up with NNap Xmas Scan,
ports scans and invalid TCP headers. Anyone else had problems?
Nuclear ... Enron
... PERIOD.
We fail to understand that the corporation is fundamentally evil. It's stated purpose is to generate profit
The same capitalistic forces that created the Enron scandal also create toxic waste dumping grounds. The almighty dollar dictates the cutting of corners and sacrifice of long term stability for short-term profit.
Until we can figure out a proper way to dispose of nuclear waste, it should be considered dangerous. It's only cheap when you leave out the cost of disposal. Then it gets VERY expensive (Most things in costs in America leave out disposal, thats why recycling is considered un-profitable).
Honestly, I'm not very concerned about a Chernobyl or Three Mile Island. I'm far more concerned about nuclear waste sinking into the soil and contaminating vast areas through seepage (radon, unusable ground water).
It's my sincere hope that we can eventually find a way to build deep earth disposal vehicles that burrow into hot layers and melt the waste make into a volcanic soup. Until then, we're stuck with that shit and no has figured out a good way to nuetralize it and store it safely.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Here is a link to the story of Chernobyl by the BBC. http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/02/earth_r eport/26apr.ram
And I bet that nature is thriving in that area.
Interesting that the holdouts may end up commanding serious mineral rights fees from the Mining company over the Anthracite.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
She is not alone. She said a few times that she is with her "doctor".
Honestly, I think the leather are probably good for blocking radiation. But I'd be concerned that it would soak up moisture and dust that's radioactive.
I guess that they don't have access to disposable Tyvex suits in the Ukraine. I really didn't have heavy lead suits in mind. Just something light and disposable.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Yes, I pointed out this rather large discrepancy in the last story and was called "heartless"!
I do not know why it is that we cannot get good reliable data on this. One thing that seems quite clear to me is that radiation dangers have been vastly overrated. Certainly radiation can kill and this is one of the reasons it is used in Cancer therapy. The issue is that we don't hear of a cancer patients dying from radiation induced affects - unless from a accidental overdoes - and these seem to be in the news far more often than I would expect!
The fact there are healthy animals in the area, reproducing and living normal lives, and the fact that several hundred people have simply ignored the warnings and moved back does bode for a repopulation of the area long before the suggested 900 year curfew is over.
Yet, I do not wish to make light of this tradegy. The amount of heartache and human suffering as a result of this accident is horrific.
Still, this does not change the facts. The facts seem to be pointing to the idea that radiation dangers have been greatly exagerated and if so then perhaps a lot of the human suffering due to this accident should be attributed to the way it was mismanaged. Certainly it waa very clear at the time of the accident that the authorities were mismanaging things. Iodine tablets for instance were identified as being critical to thwart off the effects of radioactive Iodine isotopes and as I recall, the offers fell of deaf ears until far too late.
The cost of cleanup is typically less than an auto accident, if it comes to that.
Auto accidents don't typically ensue because someone spilled a little pea gravel at a spot on the road where some biker noticed 'some groovy chick' and dumped his bike showing off.
Getting _further_ off topic: why do motorcycles, with limited one/two passenger capacity, make MORE noise that cars with 4-6 passenger capacity.
Muffle that fucking thing, Harley rider. It sounds like a flatulent anal-sex enthusiast.
---
...after taking a motorcycle tour through the Chernobyl interdiction zone, it's contact with slashdotters that is creeping her out.
Well, okay, actually I'll buy that.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Perhaps, but the 'cost of cleanup' from most 'little pea gravel [spots]' is the energy to lug the bike upright and continue down the road, perhaps with some road rash. In 20 years, I've only encountered one situation on the bike that I could have negotiated in the car, but could not on the bike. That involved an oil slick and a descending S-curve. And I rode away from that one.
;)
As for noise, I have to keep the radio on my bimmer cranked if anyone is going to hear me. 'Blipping' the throttle to warn some errant driver in the next lane is almost completely ineffective, as the bike just doesn't make enough noise.
On some days I might lean towards agreement with "loud pipes save lifes", but I've never been a Harley fan to begin with (I prefer a bike I can actually ride, when, where and for however long I choose). But don't get me started on Harleys vs. real motorcycles.
If you're not living on the edge, you're just taking up space!
ER workers call them 'donorcycles'. wouldnt make me stop riding, though...
Thanks, Elena, for sharing the pictures (though I doubt you'll ever read this).
Then being a 6 year old kid in Riga, Latvia (still occupied by USSR at the time) I remember little of the accident or the Soviet way of life and treating their people that partially caused the whole damned thing to happen.
Godspeed and best of luck to you!
I wonder if all the hits to her site and the great karma because it is really interesting to see these pictures and her narration is great, is causing her to take greater risks--it seems like this latest series has taken her closer to the reactor, and I kind of shuddered to see her sitting on the ferris wheel with the geiger counter.
I wish it was easier to get {stuff people want}. But I guess then it wouldn't be so valuable. Kind of reminds me of Mohammed Ali hurting himself for his career, or 50 cent "I'll do it again, if it means I'm gonna win."
Horrifying when you think about it. B/c there's a part of me which says, "cool! more cherobyl pics!"
ugh.
Call me crazy, but I bet she didn't put her email and full name on the website because she didn't want a million emails.
So why post it here? To show you can lookup?
Seriously, we should respect her wishes and NOT contact her except via snail mail.
Repsect is not that difficult a concept.
I take offence from her words. We never slashdotted anyone, we warned before we tcpblasted ourselves...
Of course you realize I'm kidding. I'm a big fan of her site, and its good to know we're not the only ones to do harm to those good Russian people.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Elena,
We Slashdotters are a curious crowd. We come from many walks of life, from many different counties, and political persuasions. When one of us reads a story that we think others may like we submit a short synopsis of it to the editors. If the editors agree, the synopsis and a link to the story are posted on Slashdot. Slashdotters share some common interests, mostly in technology.
You are only one person, but what you have done, what you have said has affected thousands of people. Your story has made us take a good hard look at life, technology, and our own contribution to society. There is a real sadness to your story, a sadness caused by something intended to be good. There is a lesson for all of us in that. Your story shows us what can happen when technology goes wrong.
Your Ghost Ride is more important than you may have imagined. You have reached not only the minds but the hearts of thousands of Slashdot readers. It is a well presented first-person story that reminds that terrible things can and do happen.
It is not uncommon for people familiar with dangers and risks to minimize them. To some degree everyone thinks; "It can't happen here." I'm sure the people of Chernobyl felt that way before the accident. Many of us work in industries where we can apply what you have taught us to our work. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. It doesn't take much of a mistake to cause a chain-reaction that ends in disaster and it doesn't need to be in a nuclear reactor for that to happen.
On Monday, when I go back to work, I pledge to you that I will remain mindful of your story. It will make a difference in my work and in my life.
I urge to take this further. You have told a powerful story. This can be the end of it or, it can be just the beginning. It is up to you. In the days and weeks ahead, you can change lives. You are an exceptional storyteller. What you have done transcends differences in language and in societies. You can be an agent of change. Please use it. I would like to hear more from you!
http://www.nsrl.ttu.edu/chernobyl/wildlifepreserve .htm"In reality, radioactivity at the level associated with the Chornobyl meltdown does have discernible, negative impacts on plant and animal life [4,5]. However, the benefit of excluding humans from this highly contaminated ecosystem appears to outweigh significantly any negative cost associated with Chornobyl radiation [8]."
What is the sound of one hand clapping?
cat
We have "tamed the atom." ...but even a loyal, trained dog can snap if deliberately abused.
What the idiots are Chernobyl was "poking it with a stick" and "saying bad things about its mother." They ran the reactor with all the safeties turned off in a deliberately unsafe mode and neglected all the warning signs.
What's next? If someone blows up a city block by sloshing around a gas pump while smoking and trying to huff the fumes, will you talk about "the depraved hubris in thinking we've 'tamed the oil wells?'"
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
me and you
is if the Russians
love their children too
I ruin more pieces by glazing...
... even if we are burning cow chips.
I've never done anagama, but I have done pit firing, which satisfies the pyromaniac in me
But these days, I've been using a dark, black cone-10 clay (Laguna's "Dark Brown") that doesn't really need much in the way of glaze, especially if you fire in a strong reduction. I'd hate to think what rare-earth isotopes are floating around in it, though.
And hey, I don't do particularly functional ware anyway.
Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
www.fogbound.net
where are my mod points. This is a troll.
Nothing about the WW2 bombings was "incidental". You can agree or disagree with the decisions that were made but revisionist history doesn't do people any good.
Furthermore, this coment has nothing to do with the discussino at hand - it's just a way for you to get people riled up.
So in effect, regardless of the merits of your viewpoint, you're trolling.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Well Said!
Thanks for saying what I am sure many of us are thinking, and Thank You to Elena for one of the best photo-journalism stories I have seen/read anywhere.
An analog gray hair frantically clinging to the trailing edge of technology.
Many people probably don't understand from her broken English, but she took this picture IN FRONT OF THE SARCOPHAGUS OF CHORNOBYL!!!!
Man. I cannot even begin to imagine.
---
Remember, there is no sig.
Thanks for posting this, it does confirm exactly what I was thinking.
Sigged!
Yes, the girl is attractive, but it seems to be in bad taste to kept mentioning it. I honestly am not flaming anyone, but let's try maybe to stop commenting on hot biker girls and focus on her deeds for the rest of the time this article keeps getting comments.
Anyways, a few quick thoughts:
As someone said in another comment, I was also pretty spooked after reading through the whole story.I really found what she said about tourists not being able to take the silence for very long in the ghost town disturbing. Hard to imagine what that is like, I would probably have trouble dealing with it myself. I would assume one would get used to it (obviously she deals ok with it).
And also, for all the crap I do online, I gotta say THIS story and her pics reminds me of how great the internet can be. I have seen some shows about the whole thing on tv sometimes, but really they dont even come close to what this girl has done and showed us. It's really too bad there isn't more things like this on the web. That's just what I think, I'm sure others find other things just as interesting online.
Overall very scary and it really is a wake up call.
For the cancer, affects build over time.
Every bit of radiation gives you some chance
of cancer.
Radiation sickness is different. It's more
like alcohol: no problem if you get a bit every
day, but you die if you get lots at once or
a moderate amount every day.
How about automatic organ donor if you don't wear a seat belt?
Personally, I think not wearing helmets *reduces* the cost to the state if you get in an accident. If you're wearing a helmet, you're going to live. No helmet, you're more likely to die.
Me, I paid over $500 for my helmet and $1100 for my motorcycle.....
I suppose there will be some selection for radiation resistence, but I wouldn't expect to see a lot of rad-proof animals. Wild animals often get sick from various causes, and get picked off by predators. The ones that are more resistent to radiation will have some advantage, but that's only one survival factor among many.
Big corporations tend to attract a different type of leadership than non-profits.
Folks going into large corporations (or startups) are in it for the money. This is what motivates them. You are far more likely to get rotten black hearts once the executive selection process is over with. In fact the more black-hearted someone is, the more vicious they are in destroying their competitions.
Non-profits, by contrast, tend to attract people who are more interested in the mission. Beyond keeping the organization afloat, they generally wouldn't sell them-selves out for extra money. They've already demonstrated their ethics by passing over bigger offers from corporations.
Political types are a mixed bag. Beginners make shit. But the those on top of the food chain have the potential to make major $$$ in high stakes campaign and lobbying (for major corporations).
But still, I'd trust the typical beauracrat more than I trust the typical corporate executive. The beauracrat WILL protect his own turf. The big difference is that he's typically not after EVERYONE ELSE's turf like the corporate executive.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Harley has that sound copyrighted, according to my business teacher. To muffle it would defeat the purpose, at least to them.
Who do I have to blackmail to get some representation around here!?!?!?!?
Geez, if I was a doco maker, I'd be on the next plane over to film a guided tour with Elana. You wouldn't need to do much in the way of voiceovers or editing, just her and the remaining locals telling it like it is.
Be the best anti-nuke power film ever.
John.
...don't be so fucking melodramatic. Anything that happened there is exceptionally pale in comparison to the Holocaust or the slave trade in this country. Get a grip.
I feel that every american should be required to view that entire website...
-1 Overrated Please
I would love to read an interview!
Death toll estimates I've seen elsewhere are WAY higher.
If you look at her site, 3500 would almost be entirely accounted for only by the people who refused to leave the dead zone. (3500 stayed, 400 still alive.)
I've seen death toll estimates in the hundreds of thousands (long-term, that is.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Those things do NOT work.
Trust me... I live in an area where car/deer collisions are frequent. We used to use the whistles, but 8-10 years ago we stopped replacing them when the adhesive wore out and they fell off our cars.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
They don't.
I'm lucky - Most Cornell engineering students got a tour of the Ward Lab reactor facility their freshman year as part of a required engineering seminar. The view down into the pool was breathtaking.
The reactor was shut down permanently my senior year.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Woof woof.
I believe nuclear warheads have so many safety features designed in to prevent detonation that you could shoot it with a gun/drop it off a cliff/set off an explosion next to it, and it wouldn't detonate.
Making a warhead detonate with full yield requires a very precise conventional explosion to compress the nuclear material. Unless a warhead is intentionally detonated, the chances of it exploding with full yield are slim to non. (At worst you'll have a "dirty bomb" rather than a nuclear explosion.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Contained - hell no.
An actual nuclear explosion - No on that count either.
Chernobyl was a steam explosion, followed by days of slow combustion of radioactive material. (i.e. once the lid blew off the reactor, which wouldn't have been THAT bad, the superheated graphite came in contact with air and began burning instantly - THAT was what spread the majority of the radiation.)
If the same thing had happened in a U.S. civilian power reactor, the steam explosion would have been contained within the reactor containment building and there would have been no graphite to combust. (Such a steam explosion in a U.S. civilian reactor would have been even harder to create than the one the idiots running Chernobyl created, due to reactor design differences. Using a graphite moderator is unsafe for a multitude of reasons, the final reason being that it burns readily.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Oh, I'm aware of the safety features (for US nukes anyway)! I assure you, it was meant as a hypothetical quetion. :-)
zWhat would an EWOULDBLOCK block, if an EWOULDBLOCK could block would? -- me
Well, Poland still sells gasoline in dm3, not in liters...
HiggsBison (the one grazing in the Higgs' field)
My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
Not long after 2001-09-11 attrocities, I saw the words 'NUKE 'EM' scrawled in the grime on the back of a semi truck trailer traveling down the highway.
That the USA didn't rain down instant death and destruction on the homeland(s) of those perceived responsible for the attacks shows a commendable measure of restraint on the USA's behalf not to 'replay' Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
In a ghoulish(?) coincidence, the death toll at Pearl Harbor (1941-12-07) is about the same as that of '9/11'. Is it no wonder that the events of 2001-09-11 are now inextricably linked to the date 'which will live in infamy': 1941-12-07?
What a day '9/11' was....
The attacks were vivid, simple, and brutal.
THEY GOT THE WHOLE WORLD TO TAKE NOTICE--the hallmark of such activites.
As an 'encore' of sorts, we now have the terrible events of '3/11' in Madrid, Spain (2004-03-11).
How does one defend against such attacks by using 'the right tool for the right job' without the 'kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out' results one would get using nukes in retaliation against the homeland(s) of the perpetrators of such attacks? Take a look at what happened in the past:
Pearl Harbor: 2,403 dead. Source.
Hiroshima/Nagasaki: 350,000 dead. Source.
Take a look at what is happening now in Iraq:
US soldiers killed: 544 Source.
Iraqi civillians killed: 8,700-10,000+ Source.
The punishment(s) doesn't seem to fit the crime to me....
What makes this so powerful is the narrative in its fractured English, and the fear. She might well know what she's doing, but would you go there? Serious subject for a Slashdot poll...
Getting _further_ off topic: why do motorcycles, with limited one/two passenger capacity, make MORE noise that cars with 4-6 passenger capacity.
Muffle that fucking thing, Harley rider. It sounds like a flatulent anal-sex enthusiast.
They are under the impression that you are too busy with your head up your.... I mean on your cell phone to pay attention. So they want a bike that is loud enough that you will hear them. Motorcycles ran with their lights on before anyone ever considered doing it with cars. Yet the one accident I have had, any every near accident, has been because someone in a car didn't see me.
If you've never ridden, you probably don't realize how alert a safe biker must be. They don't have the luxury of talking on the phone, fiddling with the radio, eating lunch, or applying their makeup. Particularly if you're in an area that grows potholes.
It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. -- Harry Truman
For anyone that doesn't know the full story... Quoted from a good friend of mine posting on a forum about the URL mentioned in the headline:
From the start, I'd say that I would not go. But this is based on my assessment of the risk/benefit. You have to make your mind up based on your own judgement.
But to do that properly, you have to understand the risk properly. Sorry if this gets techie or boring, but this is basically the kind of stuff I do for a living so I'm entitled to mouth off (just this once)
The Accident
The accident was caused by a combination of bad design and manufacture, and operators not following procedures during an unusual experimental procedure. The electrical control system was being checked for function during conditions of power outage and the emergency safety interlocks had been removed. During the experiment there were significant variations in the temperature and coolant flow rate. The temperature fluctuations broke up the zirconium fuel channels in the core and allowed the fuel to mix with the pressurised cooling water. This intimate mixing allowed rapid heat exchange and a large increase in energy output because of the increased moderation. This process took six seconds to generate a shock wave in the water from the temperature increase which blew open the pressurised cooling system. The opening of the system allowed the release of the stored pressure and the coolant water immediately flashed into steam.
The force of this explosion of steam was enough to lift the entire reactor up. Thousands of tonnes of it. Hmm. Anyway, this explosion removed all the cooling water from the reactor, meaning that the fuel, which stayed, increased in reactivity and energy output again. This vapourised the fuel in the middle of the core, which again exploded about a minute later, destroying the core and most of the reactor hall building. A lot of the core, nuclear material and other ancilliary equipment was thrown up out of the reactor building and onto surrounding buildings. This was the first spread of contamination.
All this hot material flying around started multiple fires on the roofs of the buildings which were conveniently coated in highly flammable tar. Fun. Firemen struggled to control these fires and got most out and the main reactor fire under control within about four hours. Lots died.
About sixteen hours later the main reactor material had self-heated itself to the degree that it started to react with the water being used to control it, which generated hydrogen. Which also burns. This new fire burnt with a plume stretching about fifty metres above the roof.
Over the next ten days, thousands of tonnes of damping materials such as boron compounds, lead, sand and clay were dropped on the core to try and stop the fire. Remember that the smoke from these fires was transporting more material out into the environment. An attempt was also made to cool the fire by flooding it with liquid nitrogen.
Eventually the material burnt it's way out through the lower environmental shield and spread out across the lower levels under the reactor. In doing so it cooled and lost it's reactivity of it's own accord and quite quickly solidified and stopped.
The Consequences
It can only be estimated how much of the nuclear material was lost because of the dispersion around the remains of the facility, and the fact that a large amount is buried under the tonnes of control materials and in the too-hot-to-investigate lower halls. The best guess is that about a quarter of the original inventory went walkies, about twenty tonnes or so.
The spread of this material spans from particles thrown out by the initial blasts to the smoke produced by the various fires which was carried by the wind all across europe, being brought down as the wind died or changed and in rain. The two most important isotopes are 131-iodine (mainly decayed now) and 137-caesium
(still around). The fall out of this material is arranged in patterns around the site d
But... I think my point was meant to be why would a newspaper report various cancers in 70 year old people as nuke related... Maybe there is still statistically higher rates, maybe it is anti-nuke-in-general bias.
* and it will probably be some nice first world country, set off by someone who thinks God told him to do it.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
*I* was not the person who posted her email address, asshole. It was this post by "The Bullroarer".
Then someone responded saying "OMG y0u have l33t ski11s!@#! I b0w to yu0r l33t tr4ck1ng prow3ss~!@!#!$"
I then responded telling this person how much of a moron he was, since the "leet skills" were no more than typing "whois kidofspeed.com". And by the way, dipshit:
1. "kidofspeed.com" is plastered all over half the pictures on her website
2. the registration info is public
3. I wasn't the person who originally posted it
Go back and reread the thread and see if you can figure it out.
And fuck off.
My parent post was deemed a troll post.
My aim was to spark an honest discussion as to how to deal with terrorists and terrorism without (preferably) killing any innocent civillians in the process. The examples cited in my parent post illustrate what I believe to be an improper magnitude of difference in numbers in the groups of people killed during armed conflict.
To reiterate, my goal was not to be inflammitory and disruptive, but to start an honest discussion about viable solutions to the problem of terrorism and how to minimize--peferably eliminate--loss of life to all parties concerned....
smoking for a year: 1 Rem
eating a banana: 4 mRem each
So, a banana every day for a year would expose you to 4*365.25 = 1,461 mRem = 1.5 Rem, i.e. a Banana a day exposes you to more radiation than smoking.
Eh, presumably the radiation dissipates or something and the smoking figure accounts for it while the banana figure doesn't? You never hear of cancer from bananas...