It's really cool to hear about this stuff. It's just sad to realize that the 128 was a terrible idea and Commodore spread itself too thin making all kinds of bizarre 8-bit computers around that time instead of making a true successor to the C64. The C65 should have been what made it to market, not the weird 128 with its obsolete the day it left the factory CP/M mode running at half the speed of its competitors.
The people I knew with 128s back then all used the 64 mode but used the 128 as an excuse to buy a better monitor. I never knew anyone using the CP/M mode.
to one of the BASIC test programs for my Commodore 64 that would fill the screen with random / and \ characters, resulting in a similar pattern. If only I'd made the connection to intertwined ordered phases earlier!
Oh yes. I just did a small microcontroller project for a customer and just having to re-learn how to just compare two 8 bit bytes was enough for me. "Not this crap again!" Move one operand to the accumulator. Subtract from memory. Um, which way around is it again? ACC - memory or memory - ACC? Do I need to clear the carry bit myself first? Wait, how do I mask that bit again? It's AND for resetting to 0, OR to set to 1? Wait, there's a macro for that already?
10 minutes later, I'm fairly confident I've put the three instructions in the right order... OK, now what is it again? If the numbers are the same, the result is zero. OK, so I test for the ZERO flag. Wait, where is it again? Bank 0? Bank 1? Oh it's mirrored to all banks? OK. Well, I just wanted to test greater than. So I guess that means the carry bit isn't set?
if a>b then LED=ON is a bit simpler. It's only because I had to use the microcontroller that was already there and it was designed to use as little power as possible to spare the battery. But assembler is a pain especially if those fine details of binary math are far in the past. I suppose I could spend a week or so re-learning all that... But who'd pay me to do that to get a low battery warning light?????
I'm just happy I didn't have to compare two 12 bit numbers on an 8 bit machine.
Nah, I'm a chickenhead but Atari was first, well at least before Commodore. The PET used IEEE-488 (AKA GPIB, HPIB) to communicate with its drives. Cassette was serial, but was for cassette only, ie the ROM wouldn't know what to do with anything else but a cassette. (No device numbers)
There is no justice system in the sense of a healthcare system like in Canada. There is a legal market where you can buy all the legality you can afford. "Justice"? Not so much.
I don't think you understood what I was saying. I was saying that having a spectrum analyzer, which has always been an expensive and complex instrument, is silly when all you wanted to do can be done with a 15$ dongle.
I have to ask: am I that unclear? I have the feeling I am.
Go to eBay and do some shopping. The point is you play with electronics these days by reverse-engineering existing products and using software to re-purpose things. Which is my point. You don't need an oscilloscope to be working in electronics on a hobby level anymore.
What is all on one chip? Um, the SDR receiver is certainly NOT a sprawling set of discrete LC filters and transistors, is it?
Just another example of why an oscilloscope is not the "must have" instrument it once was.
Is that rambling and incoherent? What do I need to clarify?
when I said you don't need an oscilloscope anymore. Probably a SDR receiver that goes to a PC. What possible interest is there in looking at the raw RF at the antenna, which you won't see with an oscilloscope anyways (because I don't know any scopes with nV/cm settings yet), or the countless undocumented signals inside the receiver, which you won't access anyways because it's all on one chip?
Yeah, wow, I had no idea this would turn into this. I was just wondering why you need a scope for HOBBYISTS given the MASSIVE amount of engineering work ALREADY DONE! You can slap together modules from eBay and never need to do more than measure a voltage, yet it's definitely electronics. I thought I was being clear in my post, guess not.
I just heard too many people share the "wisdom" that you need a scope to do any electronics and this discourages people. I get the feeling that there is a significant portion of hackers out there with low self-esteem and they cover it up with their toys.
"You need this expensive toy or you're not one of US kid!"
I do board design, I just don't see what a hobbyist trying to get a bluetooth temperature sensor he bought on eBay to talk to his phone need a scope for.
Weird, you're using a scope as a logic analyzer. You're throwing away all the analog information the scope is presenting you (slope, fuzzies) and just looking at the digital content. Why are you paying to see information you don't use? Also no affordable scope gives you the sample depth/width of even a cheap logic analyzer. Some logic analyzers can also generate pulses. No scope can do that. The scope is dead.
Plus logic analyzers come with small clippy probes designed for the small boards and test points. A scope probe looks like a billy club in comparison. You could use logic analyzer clips on a scope, but again, you're looking at analog distortions that creates instead of the 1s and 0s.
And I say that as the owner of a 3.9GHz sampling scope, differential probe, and DC-50MHz current probe. None of these things are particularly useful these days. My crappy USB logic analyzer and I2C master is what I use.
About the only thing I can see a scope being useful for is picking up runts in large FPGA systems, and even that is pretty much in the past as the software gets better.
Hell, even when I was working in industrial automation with analog sensors and current loops everywhere, the shop scope was covered in dust. The PLC itself is capable of analyzing its own inputs. In effect, most systems are so over-powered these days they are their own scope.
The lovely world of elegant analog systems that relied on physics and expensive exotic components used in obscure ways is long over.
It's all digital now. Debugging pulse trains (why aren't you using a simulator? Even Microchip MPASM has a logic analyzer when simulating code) with a scope makes as much sense as using a steam locomotive to get groceries.
Yes, the charging of LITHIUM-AIR batteries, which would have a much higher capacity by weight. See, there are NO such batteries right now. Yup, reading sure is fun.
Heh, big thing when it's a virus. I'm hilarious. OK but lithium-air batteries that don't explode in the rain would be quite something. Not only would they make electric cars more viable, but it might even make things like electric planes much more practical and long-ranged. Big ifs, though. It's hard to beat kerosene and turbines for raw power, efficiency and range.
Some might say that zero page was 256 registers. I don't see it that way since you couldn't make a single instruction to work with these "registers". But the instructions that did access zero page used one fewer cycle.
I certainly hope so. They're still in the early adopter phase, though. I don't even have a driver's license so maybe by the time I do get it their cars will have come down in price.
OK, so the LaserDisc was a specially made analog disc. That's all I wanted to know, really. I wanted to know what was "digital" about this system, looks like it was the computer controlling the LD players was the digital part.
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The people I knew with 128s back then all used the 64 mode but used the 128 as an excuse to buy a better monitor. I never knew anyone using the CP/M mode.
The Russians sent a sample return mission in 1970. Luna 16.
http://blog.neodyme.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/024.jpg
to one of the BASIC test programs for my Commodore 64 that would fill the screen with random / and \ characters, resulting in a similar pattern. If only I'd made the connection to intertwined ordered phases earlier!
10 minutes later, I'm fairly confident I've put the three instructions in the right order... OK, now what is it again? If the numbers are the same, the result is zero. OK, so I test for the ZERO flag. Wait, where is it again? Bank 0? Bank 1? Oh it's mirrored to all banks? OK. Well, I just wanted to test greater than. So I guess that means the carry bit isn't set?
if a>b then LED=ON is a bit simpler. It's only because I had to use the microcontroller that was already there and it was designed to use as little power as possible to spare the battery. But assembler is a pain especially if those fine details of binary math are far in the past. I suppose I could spend a week or so re-learning all that... But who'd pay me to do that to get a low battery warning light?????
I'm just happy I didn't have to compare two 12 bit numbers on an 8 bit machine.
Nah, I'm a chickenhead but Atari was first, well at least before Commodore. The PET used IEEE-488 (AKA GPIB, HPIB) to communicate with its drives. Cassette was serial, but was for cassette only, ie the ROM wouldn't know what to do with anything else but a cassette. (No device numbers)
There is no justice system in the sense of a healthcare system like in Canada. There is a legal market where you can buy all the legality you can afford. "Justice"? Not so much.
Or can I sell my cartridges on Craigslist now?
I just ordered a 30$ USB drive and hey! free 3000$ drone!
I have to ask: am I that unclear? I have the feeling I am.
What is all on one chip? Um, the SDR receiver is certainly NOT a sprawling set of discrete LC filters and transistors, is it?
Just another example of why an oscilloscope is not the "must have" instrument it once was.
Is that rambling and incoherent? What do I need to clarify?
2) Did you miss the part where I said " I myself have looked at the FM band on my old analog spectrum analyzer ". I bolded the important part for you.
You're better off just finding what's already done and buy it. I myself have looked at the FM band on my old analog spectrum analyzer to look for SCA signals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiary_Communications_Authority
It's all wonderful fun, but when you can do the same with a 15$ USB receiver and some software, it all starts to look rather silly, no?
I just heard too many people share the "wisdom" that you need a scope to do any electronics and this discourages people. I get the feeling that there is a significant portion of hackers out there with low self-esteem and they cover it up with their toys.
"You need this expensive toy or you're not one of US kid!"
I do board design, I just don't see what a hobbyist trying to get a bluetooth temperature sensor he bought on eBay to talk to his phone need a scope for.
Weird, you're using a scope as a logic analyzer. You're throwing away all the analog information the scope is presenting you (slope, fuzzies) and just looking at the digital content. Why are you paying to see information you don't use? Also no affordable scope gives you the sample depth/width of even a cheap logic analyzer. Some logic analyzers can also generate pulses. No scope can do that. The scope is dead.
Plus logic analyzers come with small clippy probes designed for the small boards and test points. A scope probe looks like a billy club in comparison. You could use logic analyzer clips on a scope, but again, you're looking at analog distortions that creates instead of the 1s and 0s.
And I say that as the owner of a 3.9GHz sampling scope, differential probe, and DC-50MHz current probe. None of these things are particularly useful these days. My crappy USB logic analyzer and I2C master is what I use.
About the only thing I can see a scope being useful for is picking up runts in large FPGA systems, and even that is pretty much in the past as the software gets better.
Hell, even when I was working in industrial automation with analog sensors and current loops everywhere, the shop scope was covered in dust. The PLC itself is capable of analyzing its own inputs. In effect, most systems are so over-powered these days they are their own scope.
The lovely world of elegant analog systems that relied on physics and expensive exotic components used in obscure ways is long over.
It's all digital now. Debugging pulse trains (why aren't you using a simulator? Even Microchip MPASM has a logic analyzer when simulating code) with a scope makes as much sense as using a steam locomotive to get groceries.
Wait, like those arcade style mini-consoles from the '80s? Where can I see it?
Is that the little basket with buns wrapped in a towel you get in good restaurants?
Yes, the charging of LITHIUM-AIR batteries, which would have a much higher capacity by weight. See, there are NO such batteries right now. Yup, reading sure is fun.
Heh, big thing when it's a virus. I'm hilarious. OK but lithium-air batteries that don't explode in the rain would be quite something. Not only would they make electric cars more viable, but it might even make things like electric planes much more practical and long-ranged. Big ifs, though. It's hard to beat kerosene and turbines for raw power, efficiency and range.
Some might say that zero page was 256 registers. I don't see it that way since you couldn't make a single instruction to work with these "registers". But the instructions that did access zero page used one fewer cycle.
I think it's one of these: http://koti.mbnet.fi/poiuyt/drawinz/poiuyt.jpg
I certainly hope so. They're still in the early adopter phase, though. I don't even have a driver's license so maybe by the time I do get it their cars will have come down in price.
People decide to use technology a certain way, and people submit to it. Russell Brand is right, it's time for a revolution.
OK, so the LaserDisc was a specially made analog disc. That's all I wanted to know, really. I wanted to know what was "digital" about this system, looks like it was the computer controlling the LD players was the digital part.