The point I was highlighting was a Fedora/RH user has the same issues using Debian as a Debian user would using Fedora/RH
The point I was highlighting is that they don't -- a RH user trying debian won't need to add third party repositories to get common packages; a RH user trying debian won't need to write down the URL of a possible mirror on a bit of paper when using netinstall; a RH user trying debian won't find that the official netinstall docs say "step 1: download the full installation CD";...
you only need CD1 to do a minimal install. If you needed more, you did it wrong. No one's fault there but your own.
Got to the "what categories of things do you want to install" screen, unchecked "gnome", unchecked "kde", unchecked "virtualisation server", unchecked "blah blah blah". If I'm expected to go into the screen which lists every single package individually and uncheck them there too, that's just crazyness:P
(I would hope that this isn't the case for the desktop-oriented fedora, but as mentioned I'd been asked for centos specifically)
When I work on the Debian/Ubuntu servers, I can mostly get apt and dpks to work for the server configuration that I want, but science damn if it isn't like pulling teeth
"apt-get install lighttpd", now you try:P
/me has spent several hours discovering that the centos netinstall makes you specify your own mirror as opposed to debian giving a list, and the official docs start with "to use netinstall, first download the complete installer CD and stick it on a webserver on your LAN". Then tried downloading the regular installer CD, to find that you need FOUR CDs for a minimal install with all options disabled, as opposed to debian's one. Then after giving up and downloading the DVDs, finally got it installed. Trying to install lighttpd... package does not exist, as opposed to debian packaging pretty much everything. Wanting to stab someone at this point, he downloads the lighttpd source code, notes that it uses scons as a build system. Tries to install scons... package does not exist. It requires four CDs for a minimal install... and doesn't include common packages. What. The. Fuck.
Take your minimum disk and RAM requirements for a single server, multiply by how many VMs you want, these are your minimum disk and RAM requirements for the host. There is no minimum CPU speed, slower will be slower and faster will be faster, but a test rig won't fail to work just because you have a single core.
I'm running a small cluster of load-balanced LAMP VMs on my laptop; 128MB / 3GB each, sharing a single 1GHz CPU:P
fend off those terrible Americans who can build better products.
I was with you up until this -- but saying that IE is winning due to technical superiority makes you sound like you'd be mindlessly pro-america no matter how blatantly the facts oppose you:-P
Hammer manufacturers know a number of their products will be directly used for murder.
If they advertised as "Bob's Murder Weapons -- No matter how big or how small, we have the tool you need to most efficiently maul your coworkers and classmates", and 99% of their customers made use of them in such a way, I'm pretty sure someone would complain about them too:P
Unless you actually want to download 31 CDs or 5 DVDs worth of stuff.
For a basic install, I've never needed more than the first CD; then once installed I download the 10MB or so of packages specific to this box's function; that's generally faster and more efficient if you do more than a couple of installs.
<rant>Trying out CentOS (customers want my company to support it D: ), it was very frustrating to find that having downloaded and started installing from CD1, and unchecked all the standard setups (eg, no "desktop" packages, no "web server" packages, no "clustering" packages...) it still required *four* CDs. Then I gave up and tried the netinstall, and whereas debian presents you with a list of mirrors and you pick one at random, centos expects you to type one in. I looked at the official documentation (thankfully I have two computers...) to try and find a URL to install from, and the manual just says "How to use netinst: Step 1, download the full set of installation CDs and set them up on a fileserver on your LAN" -_- (Asking on IRC later revealed that there are some publicly visible mirrors, I had to google to find the syntax to use them though...)
And after all that pain getting repositories set up, they don't have lighttpd -_- So I try to install it from source... and they don't have the tools necessary to build it from source...
How can anybody use this in preference to a debian based system?:-/</rant>
Bittorrent is hard to shut down for legal reasons; technically, blocking a given torrent isn't much harder than blocking a given website. From what I've heard, things like tor and freenet are more resilient, even after the government gives the ISPs permission to do whatever it takes to block them.
You can damned well guarantee that a jail term for failure to comply will suddenly make it possible. I doubt there's many torrent tracker site owners and admins willing to serve jailtime for it.
If they do have some control, then they can use it and avoid jail; if they truly don't, is "failing to shut down a server you don't own" a crime? Your scenario only makes sense if it can be proved that they have control, and even after proof being found, they refuse to do it~
How is a normal person going to download Firefox without IE?
This comes up a hundred times per thread, and gets answered a hundred times per thread, so I shall try answering in italic and seeing if that's more memorable:
Normal users don't install the main parts of their OS. The computer shop does the installation, and the users use what they're given.
You think if you were the only person in the world using linux, it would still have the same range of software, the same driver support, the same wealth of googlable information, etc?
Given that you have CNAMEs set up, and end-user documentation refers to them, why would the end users even know these names exist, let alone use them in preference to the service alias?
I have a similar scheme of naming routers after things that they aren't -- people only normally see them when running traceroute, and normally only run traceroute when there's a problem, so maybe they'll be more understanding of the slowness when they see that the packets are being routed though "printer", "iphone", and "toaster":-)
I thought one of the premises of Slashdot is that it is unbiased when your news isn't.
When did that happen o_O? Last time I looked at the FAQ, this was taco's personal blog, and he and his guest contributors did whatever they wanted with it._.
The company I work at was approached by a guy; conversation went along the lines of "Hi, you look like a good company, but I've never heard of you or seen advertisements" "We find the 'happy customer' approach to marketing works well enough on its own" "That is good. Say, I have possibility to stimulate communities to talk about [company name]. So, I can help you have all your news and services discussed constantly distinctive features spotlighted, etc by independence observers. The number of positive reviews and mentoring of your company will increase in natural way"
Further mails were then directed to/dev/null, but I wonder how many companies would have taken him up on the offer...
Designers need to be more anal
on
KDE 4.2 Is Released
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
A couple of days ago some guy got flamed for saying "The alignment is off, doesn't anybody even look at their software before releasing it?", with the most useful response being "your font settings are probably different to the developer's, they don't see what you see"; and I agreed with them. But looking at screenshots for myself, even the official screenshots showing how good it looks, look bad. annotated example. (PS. Any idea where I can send that to to have people fix it?)
/me goes back to enlightenment 17, ever more appreciative of Raster's perfectionism...
You can run a useful open source computer without xorg, you can run a useful computer without java, now that we have things like nexenta (ubuntu userland with opensolaris kernel) we can even go without linux -- but trying to run an open source based box without any of the software that gnu has touched is pretty hard~ (I think some of the BSDs do their own thing for the core, but most of the third-party software which gets installed on top has been touched by the hand of gnu somewhere along the lines)
I had to read this twice to make sure I was reading it right -- a suite per department, which only gets used occasionally? Why not have say 1-3 computer labs, shared between the whole school, and thus used far more efficiently?
As to implementation -- if you're happy for your IT skills course to teach IT skills (as opposed to microsoft office skills), then sunrays are lovely, and run gnome / openoffice / firefox / etc just fine, the only problem being if anyone has ties to windows-only software.
Yeah, perhaps you should have read the entire post. For the sake of hackishness just about everything has been done but that doesn't mean you are going to roll it out onto the production floor of a major operating system.
Perhaps you should have read any of the post o_O Java is compiled to native binary by default, it just happens behind the scenes; and java is rolled out to pretty much everywhere...
Slashdot Mirror
The point I was highlighting was a Fedora/RH user has the same issues using Debian as a Debian user would using Fedora/RH
The point I was highlighting is that they don't -- a RH user trying debian won't need to add third party repositories to get common packages; a RH user trying debian won't need to write down the URL of a possible mirror on a bit of paper when using netinstall; a RH user trying debian won't find that the official netinstall docs say "step 1: download the full installation CD"; ...
you only need CD1 to do a minimal install. If you needed more, you did it wrong. No one's fault there but your own.
Got to the "what categories of things do you want to install" screen, unchecked "gnome", unchecked "kde", unchecked "virtualisation server", unchecked "blah blah blah". If I'm expected to go into the screen which lists every single package individually and uncheck them there too, that's just crazyness :P
(I would hope that this isn't the case for the desktop-oriented fedora, but as mentioned I'd been asked for centos specifically)
When I work on the Debian/Ubuntu servers, I can mostly get apt and dpks to work for the server configuration that I want, but science damn if it isn't like pulling teeth
"apt-get install lighttpd", now you try :P
/me has spent several hours discovering that the centos netinstall makes you specify your own mirror as opposed to debian giving a list, and the official docs start with "to use netinstall, first download the complete installer CD and stick it on a webserver on your LAN". Then tried downloading the regular installer CD, to find that you need FOUR CDs for a minimal install with all options disabled, as opposed to debian's one. Then after giving up and downloading the DVDs, finally got it installed. Trying to install lighttpd... package does not exist, as opposed to debian packaging pretty much everything. Wanting to stab someone at this point, he downloads the lighttpd source code, notes that it uses scons as a build system. Tries to install scons... package does not exist. It requires four CDs for a minimal install... and doesn't include common packages. What. The. Fuck.
</evidence type="anecdotal">
Take your minimum disk and RAM requirements for a single server, multiply by how many VMs you want, these are your minimum disk and RAM requirements for the host. There is no minimum CPU speed, slower will be slower and faster will be faster, but a test rig won't fail to work just because you have a single core.
I'm running a small cluster of load-balanced LAMP VMs on my laptop; 128MB / 3GB each, sharing a single 1GHz CPU :P
We can encrypt bit-torrent files so they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between P2P to normal traffic. Sheesh.
Enjoy your throttled HTTPS / SSH / everything else that isn't standard port 80 HTTP...
fend off those terrible Americans who can build better products.
I was with you up until this -- but saying that IE is winning due to technical superiority makes you sound like you'd be mindlessly pro-america no matter how blatantly the facts oppose you :-P
Bruce is a robot
And that's not all...
[shish] on [sakura] Sun Feb 22 04:45:19 ~/porn
>
Hammer manufacturers know a number of their products will be directly used for murder.
If they advertised as "Bob's Murder Weapons -- No matter how big or how small, we have the tool you need to most efficiently maul your coworkers and classmates", and 99% of their customers made use of them in such a way, I'm pretty sure someone would complain about them too :P
Unless you actually want to download 31 CDs or 5 DVDs worth of stuff.
For a basic install, I've never needed more than the first CD; then once installed I download the 10MB or so of packages specific to this box's function; that's generally faster and more efficient if you do more than a couple of installs.
<rant>Trying out CentOS (customers want my company to support it D: ), it was very frustrating to find that having downloaded and started installing from CD1, and unchecked all the standard setups (eg, no "desktop" packages, no "web server" packages, no "clustering" packages...) it still required *four* CDs. Then I gave up and tried the netinstall, and whereas debian presents you with a list of mirrors and you pick one at random, centos expects you to type one in. I looked at the official documentation (thankfully I have two computers...) to try and find a URL to install from, and the manual just says "How to use netinst: Step 1, download the full set of installation CDs and set them up on a fileserver on your LAN" -_- (Asking on IRC later revealed that there are some publicly visible mirrors, I had to google to find the syntax to use them though...)
And after all that pain getting repositories set up, they don't have lighttpd -_- So I try to install it from source... and they don't have the tools necessary to build it from source...
How can anybody use this in preference to a debian based system? :-/</rant>
Bittorrent is hard to shut down for legal reasons; technically, blocking a given torrent isn't much harder than blocking a given website. From what I've heard, things like tor and freenet are more resilient, even after the government gives the ISPs permission to do whatever it takes to block them.
You can damned well guarantee that a jail term for failure to comply will suddenly make it possible. I doubt there's many torrent tracker site owners and admins willing to serve jailtime for it.
If they do have some control, then they can use it and avoid jail; if they truly don't, is "failing to shut down a server you don't own" a crime? Your scenario only makes sense if it can be proved that they have control, and even after proof being found, they refuse to do it~
This synergy is actually fairly useful...
The number of calls in the interface do matter because they increase complexity
Replacing 100 lines of in-driver code to one function call from a shared library?
How is a normal person going to download Firefox without IE?
This comes up a hundred times per thread, and gets answered a hundred times per thread, so I shall try answering in italic and seeing if that's more memorable:
Normal users don't install the main parts of their OS. The computer shop does the installation, and the users use what they're given.
One kernel
Actually, nexenta (opensolaris kernel + ubuntu userspace) is looking pretty good...
more use of Desktop Linux has zero effect on me.
You think if you were the only person in the world using linux, it would still have the same range of software, the same driver support, the same wealth of googlable information, etc?
Someone tells you 'daffy' and 'kirk' are down.
Given that you have CNAMEs set up, and end-user documentation refers to them, why would the end users even know these names exist, let alone use them in preference to the service alias?
I have a similar scheme of naming routers after things that they aren't -- people only normally see them when running traceroute, and normally only run traceroute when there's a problem, so maybe they'll be more understanding of the slowness when they see that the packets are being routed though "printer", "iphone", and "toaster" :-)
I thought one of the premises of Slashdot is that it is unbiased when your news isn't.
When did that happen o_O? Last time I looked at the FAQ, this was taco's personal blog, and he and his guest contributors did whatever they wanted with it ._.
I can't help but wonder if beastie's appearance means that BSD is powering condom machines...
The company I work at was approached by a guy; conversation went along the lines of "Hi, you look like a good company, but I've never heard of you or seen advertisements" "We find the 'happy customer' approach to marketing works well enough on its own" "That is good. Say, I have possibility to stimulate communities to talk about [company name]. So, I can help you have all your news and services discussed constantly distinctive features spotlighted, etc by independence observers. The number of positive reviews and mentoring of your company will increase in natural way"
Further mails were then directed to /dev/null, but I wonder how many companies would have taken him up on the offer...
A couple of days ago some guy got flamed for saying "The alignment is off, doesn't anybody even look at their software before releasing it?", with the most useful response being "your font settings are probably different to the developer's, they don't see what you see"; and I agreed with them. But looking at screenshots for myself, even the official screenshots showing how good it looks, look bad. annotated example. (PS. Any idea where I can send that to to have people fix it?)
/me goes back to enlightenment 17, ever more appreciative of Raster's perfectionism...
You can run a useful open source computer without xorg, you can run a useful computer without java, now that we have things like nexenta (ubuntu userland with opensolaris kernel) we can even go without linux -- but trying to run an open source based box without any of the software that gnu has touched is pretty hard~ (I think some of the BSDs do their own thing for the core, but most of the third-party software which gets installed on top has been touched by the hand of gnu somewhere along the lines)
I had to read this twice to make sure I was reading it right -- a suite per department, which only gets used occasionally? Why not have say 1-3 computer labs, shared between the whole school, and thus used far more efficiently?
As to implementation -- if you're happy for your IT skills course to teach IT skills (as opposed to microsoft office skills), then sunrays are lovely, and run gnome / openoffice / firefox / etc just fine, the only problem being if anyone has ties to windows-only software.
Yeah, perhaps you should have read the entire post. For the sake of hackishness just about everything has been done but that doesn't mean you are going to roll it out onto the production floor of a major operating system.
Perhaps you should have read any of the post o_O Java is compiled to native binary by default, it just happens behind the scenes; and java is rolled out to pretty much everywhere...