Indeed, I've disabled 3D effects (Compiz) on all computers, in part because they interfered with programs using 3D (TuxRacer, to be exact:-)). Another reason was that most of the effects just got annoying after short time.
Laying X11 on top of Wayland will not help me with running Wayland applications remotely. And if Wayland gets standard, new applications will be Wayland applications. That's my concern. X servers aren't going to go away soon. But they help exactly nothing for applications which are not X applications.
Can you display native OS X applications on a remote X display? Or native Windows applications? No? That's what I'm concerned about. Yes, you will always be able to display X applications remotely, as long as you have an X server running. But the problem is that if Wayland gets standard, new applications will most likely not be X applications, but Wayland applications.
X is already a networked protocol, all what ssh does is sending the commands through its networked channel. AFAIU Wayland depends heavily on shared memory. Good luck with making that network transparent.
If the program is well-written you can run it on your mobile.
Not necessarily. It may need lots of RAM because it uses lots of data. Or it may need a fast network connection, or fast access to a large hard disk (or rather, the data being stored on that hard disk). Or it may have some licensing issues which binds it to the specific computer. Or it may be a closed source program which simply isn't compiled for the mobile. Or it may be that it talks to hardware connected to that computer, not to the mobile. Or...
The biggest problem with X11 is that it's licensed under a non-free non-GPL license. For Linux to be a truly free operating system it cannot rely on a display system which fundamentally does not respect users freedom.
X has basic drawing primitives, but most apps use something like Cairo to give a PostScript / PDF style drawing API, and Cairo doesn't use any of the X drawing primitives. It just draws everything into a pixmap and then sends it to the X server.
Ah, that explains a lot about why many of today's X applications are that slow over the network. But that's an argument against Cairo and other such implementations, not an argument against X. Which means that instead of replacing X, one probably should replace Cairo.
Network transparency isn't something you can bolt on after the fact. It's something you have to build in from the beginning, or it will suck. Otherwise you'd not have such crutches like VNC.
I have no problems with a modern interface, as long as this doesn't mean taking essential features away. And yes, I do consider network transparency essential.
And when Christians pray to God, and Muslims pray to Allah, they are testing the hypothesis that someone is listening to them.
See? Perfectly analogous.
Not perfectly analogous. Unlike Christians or Muslims, SETI does a scientific analysis of the results, and openly admits that they haven't yet found anything. You'll probably not find many Christians who tell you "yeah, well, I don't know if god hears my prayers, up to now I haven't found a sign that he does, but I keep trying."
So instead of everyone having to pay for public services, let only the generous pay, while the egoists also get the benefits but for free (with the added advantage of having more money to spend in themselves, i.e., a better position in the "free" market).
Very efficient, yes. Maybe it's because I'm European, but I honestly can't understand how anyone but the super-rich can defend such an anarcho-capitalism. It's just beyond me.
It's a religion. They believe in the invisible hand doing good, and only good.
The moral message you are sending is wrong. Any message that sets a precedent for freeloading is a bad one. Kids need to know right from wrong before they learn calculus.
Then would you please stop breathing that air you didn't pay for?
A quick glance showed a lot of information on topics that I would consider to be terrorist related activities. I seen mention of making bombs, hiding stuff, and even mention of ricin, which my understanding is a poison. So I wonder, is it really safe to make information like this publically available knowing full well that hundreds of thousands of people will potentially download this information and use it for god knows what purpose?
While we're at it, also get rid of the thrillers. After all, they tell us various ways of how to commit crimes, including lots of clever ways to kill people.
Slashdot Mirror
Indeed, I've disabled 3D effects (Compiz) on all computers, in part because they interfered with programs using 3D (TuxRacer, to be exact :-)). Another reason was that most of the effects just got annoying after short time.
AFAIU it uses shared memory. How do you use shared memory across computers without an insane amount of communication?
How many drivers for graphics cards no longer sold, but still in use, will be updated to use KMS?
So the full screen games I've played on Linux didn't exist?
Can't the server simply link to Cairo? AFAIU the LGPL doesn't affect code which merely links to covered code.
Laying X11 on top of Wayland will not help me with running Wayland applications remotely. And if Wayland gets standard, new applications will be Wayland applications. That's my concern.
X servers aren't going to go away soon. But they help exactly nothing for applications which are not X applications.
Can you display native OS X applications on a remote X display? Or native Windows applications? No? That's what I'm concerned about. Yes, you will always be able to display X applications remotely, as long as you have an X server running. But the problem is that if Wayland gets standard, new applications will most likely not be X applications, but Wayland applications.
X is already a networked protocol, all what ssh does is sending the commands through its networked channel. AFAIU Wayland depends heavily on shared memory. Good luck with making that network transparent.
Is there any reason why those drawing commands could not be implemented as an X extension?
No. Where do you see any?
Not necessarily. It may need lots of RAM because it uses lots of data. Or it may need a fast network connection, or fast access to a large hard disk (or rather, the data being stored on that hard disk). Or it may have some licensing issues which binds it to the specific computer. Or it may be a closed source program which simply isn't compiled for the mobile. Or it may be that it talks to hardware connected to that computer, not to the mobile. Or ...
Can you also run Wayland clients on a remote X desktop?
The biggest problem with X11 is that it's licensed under a non-free non-GPL license. For Linux to be a truly free operating system it cannot rely on a display system which fundamentally does not respect users freedom.
In what way exactly is the X11 license non-free?
Ah, that explains a lot about why many of today's X applications are that slow over the network. But that's an argument against Cairo and other such implementations, not an argument against X. Which means that instead of replacing X, one probably should replace Cairo.
Nobody's forcing updates on you, old timer.
Sure. Except that you do want to get security fixes. And you probably also want to run a few new applications.
It's a planet from Star Wars of course.
From that page:
Wayland is where Emperor Palpatine's secret toy-box was. All kinds of nasty dark side things on Wayland.
I see. Wayland, the dark side of the (open) source. :-)
It could be nice to run a huge CPU and RAM hog on your PC at home and have just the display on your mobile.. I could see a use case in that.
VNC?
Its not a two way race, but at least a three way race.
Do you happen to pay for your data transfer?
How much data traffic does a VNC connection cause? How much a well-written X program?
Network transparency isn't something you can bolt on after the fact. It's something you have to build in from the beginning, or it will suck. Otherwise you'd not have such crutches like VNC.
I have no problems with a modern interface, as long as this doesn't mean taking essential features away. And yes, I do consider network transparency essential.
And when Christians pray to God, and Muslims pray to Allah, they are testing the hypothesis that someone is listening to them.
See? Perfectly analogous.
Not perfectly analogous. Unlike Christians or Muslims, SETI does a scientific analysis of the results, and openly admits that they haven't yet found anything. You'll probably not find many Christians who tell you "yeah, well, I don't know if god hears my prayers, up to now I haven't found a sign that he does, but I keep trying."
So instead of everyone having to pay for public services, let only the generous pay, while the egoists also get the benefits but for free (with the added advantage of having more money to spend in themselves, i.e., a better position in the "free" market).
Very efficient, yes. Maybe it's because I'm European, but I honestly can't understand how anyone but the super-rich can defend such an anarcho-capitalism. It's just beyond me.
It's a religion. They believe in the invisible hand doing good, and only good.
The moral message you are sending is wrong. Any message that sets a precedent for freeloading is a bad one.
Kids need to know right from wrong before they learn calculus.
Then would you please stop breathing that air you didn't pay for?
While we're at it, also get rid of the thrillers. After all, they tell us various ways of how to commit crimes, including lots of clever ways to kill people.
... get off my lawn! :-)
SCNR
It was a Google car!
Not to mention the obvious jokes about the crash being a driver error.